With the fight changing from a battle for survival to a battle to prove oneself, will Katakuri's fighting style change? We need to see something more than the donuts, like more awakening maybe, unless the donuts were an awakened attack. Still, something more needs to be shown to signify the change of the mood, like I said, Luffy is now fighting to improve himself and not just to save the rest, same thing for Katakuri after this chapter. Also, Luffy has been on verge of losing consciousness for a while now, he needs to pull gear 4th or haki quickly, otherwise he'll lose, because he shouldn't be able to take more hits and stay well.
Chapter 893: 36th Daughter of the Charlotte Family - Flampe
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Pirates aren’t a monolith so it’s fine be if some pirates are honorable and some are not.
I mean, that's one of the tacit themes of the manga, never explicitly stated but explained in one of Oda's one-shots. Luffy's an honorable Peace Main, Katakuri's an honorable Morganeer.
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With the fight changing from a battle for survival to a battle to prove oneself, will Katakuri's fighting style change? We need to see something more than the donuts, like more awakening maybe, unless the donuts were an awakened attack.
Well, he is making donuts by creating them from the ground below. That's pretty much awakening to me.
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Did you guys realize that Ceasar can actually beat Big Mom right now? Theorethicly he just needs to release Miok Gas and Prometheus will explode big time. Big Mom will feel that but more importantly, she will fall in the ocean. Will it be really that easy? Its a plausible way i guess.
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Someone would rescue her and we don't know where the fuck is Caeser
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Did you guys realize that Ceasar can actually beat Big Mom right now? Theorethicly he just needs to release Miok Gas and Prometheus will explode big time. Big Mom will feel that but more importantly, she will fall in the ocean. Will it be really that easy? Its a plausible way i guess.
Caesar can beat anyone with his ability to take air away from a person's body (well, maybe not logias assuming they don't need to breath when they transform). And that's why we are never going to see him using that again.
As for the explosion, I doubt that would manage to hurt her (even Zeus attack seemed to have hurt her, but in the next chapter we saw she was perfectly fine).
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@.access:
Caesar can beat anyone with his ability to take air away from a person's body (well, maybe not logias assuming they don't need to breath when they transform). And that's why we are never going to see him using that again.
As for the explosion, I doubt that would manage to hurt her (even Zeus attack seemed to have hurt her, but in the next chapter we saw she was perfectly fine).
I actually think that Kara Kuni wouldnt work on Big Mom. I think when she is on the edge of dying then her defense mechanism will kick in and she will release CoC and her shriek and that will atleast push Ceasar away. His Kara Kuni diameter is also pretty small
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@.access:
Caesar can beat anyone with his ability to take air away from a person's body (well, maybe not logias assuming they don't need to breath when they transform). And that's why we are never going to see him using that again.
As for the explosion, I doubt that would manage to hurt her (even Zeus attack seemed to have hurt her, but in the next chapter we saw she was perfectly fine).
Well you can say oda overpowered him but imo he balanced it out with the range being pretty small and caesar being a coward. Yeah he could knock out big mom or katakuri with it but you think caesar has 1/10 of the guts to look at them and get close enough to try?
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Worst One Piece chapter ever! It reached the levels of Naruto and Bleach bad chapters.
I'm totally embarassed and hope this is a one time thing and Oda gets his shit together after this. -
this fight is really picking up! Definitely looking forward to the next chapter!
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@All:
Another chapter with you being an impatient whiny little shit. You never seem to actually do much critical thinking to imagine at least a little of how the flow of the story would go if the things you complain about get removed. You and JoyBoy both.
The flow of the story would go better without a character who is going to be forgotten about down the road interrupting the fight. The fight could be happening WHILE Kat is getting development about his appearance to the world. Luffy should of got some development in being the one in making Katakuri realize that it's stupid to be hiding a secret of his mouth cause of the shame it will bring him. Jeez, you people never seen people fight and develop whilst talking at the same time to keep up entertainment and flow of the story instead of having some whiny uninteresting petty character do it?
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Flampe was a human plot device, nothing more. She existed to serve this part of the plot–the character development for Katakuri, and now that it has been served I don't suspect we will be seeing her again.
I am okay with this.
Somebody earlier mentioned Maynard, and that's a perfect comparison! Flampe is just Maynard all over again.
For the angry fans, I really do wonder what part of One Piece you liked? Cause I'm sure if you identify it, we can point out the same inconsistencies/narrative problems that you're complaining about now ':-|
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Worst One Piece chapter ever! It reached the levels of Naruto and Bleach bad chapters.
I'm totally embarassed and hope this is a one time thing and Oda gets his shit together after this.Whatever, homie.
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I wonder how much of a punching bag Luffy will be for Kaido once he goes up against him, considering how he has been getting spanked around quite a lot recently. Seems to be Oda’s way of showing how strong the enemies are… Sad!
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Flampe was a human plot device, nothing more. She existed to serve this part of the plot–the character development for Katakuri, and now that it has been served I don't suspect we will be seeing her again.
I am okay with this.
Somebody earlier mentioned Maynard, and that's a perfect comparison! Flampe is just Maynard all over again.
For the angry fans, I really do wonder what part of One Piece you liked? Cause I'm sure if you identify it, we can point out the same inconsistencies/narrative problems that you're complaining about now ':-|
Maynard played parts, even if small ones, all throughout the arc. What are you talking about, comparing him with Flampe?
In fact is because he appeared throughout the arc, the biggest(or one of the biggest) arcs in the series, that you still remember him.Tell me another part of the story where luffy was being overpowered so much and even after hours of being beaten by the enemy, the enemy couldn't defeat him. In other words, tell me about an enemy that is so incompetent, negligent and really an amateur, because only an amateur doesn't know how to finish someone.
Also tell me another part of the story where the objective of the enemy was total anihilation of the good guys, in this case due to what Luffy tried to do, assassinate Big Mom, and his brothers, but when he FINALLY get a serious attack on Luffy, he decides to damage himself to even the fight.
And don't come with the fact of honor of 1 vs 1 fight, because just before that he was bringing an army to totally anihilate the mugiwara, and he was fighting with his older brother, and he only personally went there because of the potential future danger of Luffy that needed to be ended. And he is worried that the unthinkable can possible happen and luffy reach is level of observation haki. And the fact that he kidnapped Brulé, his sister.Tell any other part in the story, where an audience seen a fight where one of the fighters is basically doing a "zombie" act, getting beat but always getting back up, and the audience is laughing and thinking that the "zombie" is lame. And I'm not talking seeing that 1 or 2 times, I would be really disappointed if that happened 4 times and the audience wasn't getting worried, but we're talking hours of the same thing. Just on screen we seen it well more than 6 times.
(If you're going to talk about Franky and Senor Pink, not only that "zombie" act was happening for both of them, but both audiences were worried!)Tell any other part in the story, where the fighter fighting the "zombie" is so dumb like a fly, that is always hitting a glass and keeps doing the exact same thing. Tell me where in the series was other fight where the enemy waited for the enemy to get back up and compose itself before him attacking or letting the enemy attack. You know this is not wrestling, where after a special attack you wait for your enemy, nor like boxing, where when the enemy falls down he gets a 10 seconds count.
And tell me how after so many hours of battle, luffy bigger damage is the one done with the help of flampe. Does Katakuri doesn't know how to cut tendons, eye, neck, fingers, hand, arm, feet, leg, pierce the stomach or any other part of the body. How can Katakuri don't know how to incapacitate the enemy? He is the top dog of an "empire", with the exception of the emperor itself.Tell me other part in the story, where a top dog of the enemy is ridiculed by fodders of the organization in such a way, where such fodders are obviously dumb enough that they are begging to be killed. You know that the right reaction and the one always seen is the one, or similar, to the one that happened with the cooks after seeing katakuri eating, or the reaction of the guy that laughed to Pica.
Tell me other part in the story, where a top enemy that his beating the good guy easily, even though he such horrible at fighting that can't end him, that he says "now I see you as equal", because of what? Because he only hit him fatally with the help of an ally, and then he automutilated himself, and knock down those allies.
Where in the story did you see the enemy so incompetent that he not only couldn't end a fight of hours and where is totally pounding the enemy, but where he totally forgets the context of the fight, and not only that but utters stupid stuff like that(talking about now see you as equal).Stupid stuff like that has been seen in Naruto, Bleach, Hitman Reborn, Yu Yu Hakusho and series like Fairy Tail, but never in One Piece. One of many reasons why One Piece is so much superior to those series is because it never had retarded things like those happening before. Now that point disappeared. I just hope, that this is a one time thing, and things get to One Piece normal quality in the future.
Unfortunately given experience reading and watching manga, and non manga, series when a series start to appear with signs of problems those problems only get bigger and more premanent in the future, and not less. -
I wonder how much of a punching bag Luffy will be for Kaido once he goes up against him, considering how he has been getting spanked around quite a lot recently. Seems to be Oda’s way of showing how strong the enemies are… Sad!
That's always how he's done it lol. Crocodile, Lucci, and everything between Moriah and the timeskip spanked Luffy good. Then we got 100 chapters of him flexing his training muscle to decrease his underdog status a bit. But considering that Kaido is one of the four strongest pirates in the world, Luffy not hitting a wall when facing him would be a bit silly.
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Nah, your blowing this out of proportion.
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I fully expect Round 1 of their conflict to see Kaido just totally kick the shit out of Luffy.
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round 1 is gonna be shitstomps all around
but then luffy will learn that Kaido's weakness is the corona of the sun and throws him into the sun during round 2 -
It should be noted that neither the Vinsmokes nor the Big Mom pirates are really traditional blood-related families as they are both heavily biologically engineered by their respective patriarch/matriarch who both shit on biological relations once they conflict with their personal goals of self-realization.
I didn't say anything about tradition, just blood relation (whether Judge likes it or not, he needed the womb of Sanji's mom to birth them, and Big Mom didn't need to keep a husband around to keep herself cranking out bastards). Clearly these 'families' have no qualms about harming their own blood for whatever imperfections they perceive in them, or rejecting them or both. So if someone can do what Sanji and Chiffon did, and find new, better families elsewhere, even if those people aren't their blood, that should be what they ought to strive for if their blood family are a bunch of assholes. You don't have to be stuck with the dregs who share your DNA, and while it's usually the family doing the rejecting of their perceived black sheep, the black sheep shouldn't feel like they owe them anything or be obligated to stick around if there's abuse.
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@S.C.:
I fully expect Round 1 of their conflict to see Kaido just totally kick the shit out of Luffy.
Then Luffy will be sent away, or trapped in a giant snake while his crewmates are defeating the Beast pirates
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Kaidou will beat down luffy for like 30-40 chapters before luffy finally awakens his df and beats kaidou in 1 chapter.
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Unfortunately given experience reading and watching manga, and non manga, series when a series start to appear with signs of problems those problems only get bigger and more premanent in the future, and not less.
Yeah, most of the works never manage to bounce back to being great. Let's just hope Oda manages to snap out of it.
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Maynard played parts, even if small ones, all throughout the arc. What are you talking about, comparing him with Flampe?
In fact is because he appeared throughout the arc, the biggest(or one of the biggest) arcs in the series, that you still remember him.Tell me another part of the story where luffy was being overpowered so much and even after hours of being beaten by the enemy, the enemy couldn't defeat him. In other words, tell me about an enemy that is so incompetent, negligent and really an amateur, because only an amateur doesn't know how to finish someone.
Also tell me another part of the story where the objective of the enemy was total anihilation of the good guys, in this case due to what Luffy tried to do, assassinate Big Mom, and his brothers, but when he FINALLY get a serious attack on Luffy, he decides to damage himself to even the fight.
And don't come with the fact of honor of 1 vs 1 fight, because just before that he was bringing an army to totally anihilate the mugiwara, and he was fighting with his older brother, and he only personally went there because of the potential future danger of Luffy that needed to be ended. And he is worried that the unthinkable can possible happen and luffy reach is level of observation haki. And the fact that he kidnapped Brulé, his sister.Tell any other part in the story, where an audience seen a fight where one of the fighters is basically doing a "zombie" act, getting beat but always getting back up, and the audience is laughing and thinking that the "zombie" is lame. And I'm not talking seeing that 1 or 2 times, I would be really disappointed if that happened 4 times and the audience wasn't getting worried, but we're talking hours of the same thing. Just on screen we seen it well more than 6 times.
(If you're going to talk about Franky and Senor Pink, not only that "zombie" act was happening for both of them, but both audiences were worried!)Tell any other part in the story, where the fighter fighting the "zombie" is so dumb like a fly, that is always hitting a glass and keeps doing the exact same thing. Tell me where in the series was other fight where the enemy waited for the enemy to get back up and compose itself before him attacking or letting the enemy attack. You know this is not wrestling, where after a special attack you wait for your enemy, nor like boxing, where when the enemy falls down he gets a 10 seconds count.
And tell me how after so many hours of battle, luffy bigger damage is the one done with the help of flampe. Does Katakuri doesn't know how to cut tendons, eye, neck, fingers, hand, arm, feet, leg, pierce the stomach or any other part of the body. How can Katakuri don't know how to incapacitate the enemy? He is the top dog of an "empire", with the exception of the emperor itself.Tell me other part in the story, where a top dog of the enemy is ridiculed by fodders of the organization in such a way, where such fodders are obviously dumb enough that they are begging to be killed. You know that the right reaction and the one always seen is the one, or similar, to the one that happened with the cooks after seeing katakuri eating, or the reaction of the guy that laughed to Pica.
Tell me other part in the story, where a top enemy that his beating the good guy easily, even though he such horrible at fighting that can't end him, that he says "now I see you as equal", because of what? Because he only hit him fatally with the help of an ally, and then he automutilated himself, and knock down those allies.
Where in the story did you see the enemy so incompetent that he not only couldn't end a fight of hours and where is totally pounding the enemy, but where he totally forgets the context of the fight, and not only that but utters stupid stuff like that(talking about now see you as equal).Stupid stuff like that has been seen in Naruto, Bleach, Hitman Reborn, Yu Yu Hakusho and series like Fairy Tail, but never in One Piece. One of many reasons why One Piece is so much superior to those series is because it never had retarded things like those happening before. Now that point disappeared. I just hope, that this is a one time thing, and things get to One Piece normal quality in the future.
Unfortunately given experience reading and watching manga, and non manga, series when a series start to appear with signs of problems those problems only get bigger and more premanent in the future, and not less.No, Maynard absolutely did not. Your statement right at the outset lets me know that you're skewing your entire perspective just to make your point. Maynard existed 1.) To show the marines had infiltrated the tournament, and 2.) Build hype for Bartolomeo. That's all. He had a few other lines here and there towards the end of the arc, but he had exactly ZERO character, because he didn't need one. He served his 1-chapter function to the plot and was not heard from again. Just like Flampe.
On to your gripes about Katakuri:
Luffy was "killed" twi…THREE times by Crocodile. Once by Lucci in Water 7. By Aokiji. And extra "killed" by Magellan.
We could complain for days that previous enemies didn't proceed to chop off Luffy's head and desecrate the corpse just to be extra sure he was dead Dead DEAD, but in order to enjoy ANY story, you have to have some suspension of disbelief, right? And that's not even the case for Katakuri, cause Katakuri has NOT been able to kill Luffy.
Katakuri hasn't been able to kill Luffy thus far because Luffy has been successful in preventing him from doing so. It's that simple. How weak are you presuming Luffy to be? We know what would've happened if Katakuri had attacked Luffy immediately after he had been knocked to the ground, because it JUST happened in this chapter: Luffy would've avoided him. Also, in a fight, no one can keep up a relentless attack; the aggressor, if he's smart, knows he has to pause in a fight as not to burn through all of his stamina and be left defenseless.
The thing with Katakuri switching to the honor code this chapter: He had a character development. It happens. Oda wanted to give him a character arc in the short time he's on screen, so that's what we're seeing here. Sure, he made this declaration to kill Luffy, yet was ONLY able to land a fatal blow with the help from fodder? That had to have hurt his pride. These people value their pride; rep is everything to a Yonkou. Why would it not be for a Yonkou's top commander? How many times has the BMP stated that preserving their reputation is their top motivation for killing the Strawhats?
Also, giving himself this wound does NOT erase the hours of beating damage that Luffy has taken, and people seem to forget that--they are still very far from being evenly hurt.
Underlings making fun of a top dog? That's a new thing. Is it not okay for One Piece to have a new dynamic? Flampe wasn't worried about being killed because she's family--she knows Katakuri would never kill his own sister. It's the same reason Shanks didn't kill that Bandit gang at the beginning of the story--at some point, you are simply above the opinion of the peanut gallery.
I don't mean to meet your wall of text with one of my own, but your post just makes it sound as if you are TRYING to unenjoy the chapter, and I don't know why.
And that stuff HAS ABSOLUTELY been in One Piece before! It's a Shonen series, just like the others you've namechecked, so OF COURSE it has used the same tropes. It's been superior cause the main characters are more engaging and the world that has been presented to us is really interesting to see. But make no mistake: Luffy has power-of-friendship'd his way through almost the entire story.
EDIT: Hell, the ENTIRE CREW should've been killed in the Supernovae arc.
EDIT 2: Upon further inspection, the "I no longer think you're below my level" bit was clearly a reaction to Luffy's burst of Conqueror's Haki. For him to be in that state and still giving off that kind of presence definitely warrants recognition.
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EDIT: Removing my post because I feel embarrassed I dedicated so much time to answer someone who constantly uses "lol" and trash talking in their replies. Now I feel stupid by association.
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Jater gonna jate comment: shouldn't Katakuri also be improving his COO?
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@.access:
I think you are mistaking Maynard for someone else.
But anyways, if you pay attention you will see some of those points you brought up actually answer others. Katakuri (and therefore his fight) is one of those things the reader will need to revisit once it is fully portrayed, because many of his aspects were misleading (either seemed to be something they weren't, or were that something but also something else). It will be a matter of whether the reader is willing to change their first impressions based on what was presented later or not.
I agree, I saw something probably not a lot of others did in Katakuri having that kind of reaction to receiving 'help', but if I go back and look, it might have turned out to just be a lucky guess on my part.
You said it is stupid that Katakuri has being overpowering Luffy for hours but still failed to finish him. You also complain that there is no reason for Katakuri to aknowledge Luffy as his equal now even though he hadn't acheived anything for the past hours except staying alive despite being bitch slapped. Well, the latter answers the former.
Isn't it just kind of a sport to Katakuri, showing Luffy how fruitless his efforts are, blocking him and outmatching him at every turn, just to make his defeat all the more humiliating? For all we know he might even have been wanting to keep Luffy alive long enough to witness the rest of his friends killed, then finishing him off, like how Bane's plan was to leave Batman alive in the Nolan film until after Gotham blew up.
I agree that to us, readers, it would be better if Katakuri aknowledged Luffy after he got a "tangible" feat, like, for example, forcing Katakuri down on his back (since such a big deal was made out of it). But if you look at it, Luffy staying alive for this long is the feat in itself.
So far we had other fights that lasted for hours or even days: Akainu x Aokiji, Inuarashi/Nekomamushi x Jack and Luffy x Cracker. In all those cases, the fight managed to last that long because both sides were equally strong, or at least couldn't find a way to proper finish their opponents, if Luffy x Katakuri is lasting as long, is also because they are on equal grounds. Here is the thing: why Katakuri can't finish Luffy even though it has been stated he is overpowering him this whole time? Because he can't. And that's why he aknowledged Luffy.Aside from my other proposed reason why he might not have finished off Luffy (assuming it was always possible, given his finishing move's effectiveness if it manages to catch its target), Katakuri's CoO let him down on several occasions. First, Luffy finding Brulee and making his escape from the Mirror World, and then not seeing Flam(be?)'s interference. So he could be experiencing some self-doubt as well. Maybe it's causing him to overestimate Luffy instead of realizing he is overestimating himself?
Look at the fight ever since Luffy went back to the Mirro-world. How many times he went on the offense? Zero. The reason why Luffy is getting a beating now is because he is not fighting back, not because he is much weaker than Katakuri. Look at how Rayleigh trained Luffy's CoO, it was not a regular fight, it was Luffy being hit continuously and trying to avoid the attacks. Luffy is replicating that now and forcing Katakuri to train him. Luffy is letting Katakuri attack him without countering because he is using this fight as an enhanced version of Rayleigh's training. The reason Katakuri didn't manage to kill him after all this is the very proof he is not above Luffy anymore, he doesn't have the skill advantage anymore to finish this fight (Luffy also can't finish it now because until he masters "future vision" he will not be able to connect any hit on Katakuri, so as of now they are on a stalemate - except Luffy is growing stronger the longer it goes).
Might there be some kind of innate ability within users of Conqueror's Haki that lets them get stronger at a faster rate than other Haki users, in the same vein as how Saiyans' strength increases the more they get beat up on? It certainly seems like the kind of thing that wouldn't be widely known, if at all. Or maybe just to a select few like Rayleigh.
The only real advantage Katakuri has now is his future vision, an ability that Luffy already awakened and is in his way to control. Katakuri can see that, he is a person used to act based on the possibilities the future brings, so it's perfectly in character for him to see Luffy's recent development as enough of his respect.
Are we assuming Katakuri's physical strength has now decreased significantly due to his wound, or that Luffy's has increased along with his Observation Haki? Because regardless of Katakuri's vision, everything Luffy threw at him, he threw back bigger and better. I don't know if that's changed but I wouldn't discount his other advantage just yet, not until we confirm either Luffy's current improvement level or Katakuri's handicap level.
Now, on another matter, Katakuri viewing this fight as a 1x1 now. We saw him before taking advantage of Luffy being distracted by the other members of his family, so him treating it as a "man's duel" looks contradicting, specially when he seemed so rigid on taking Luffy down before he could really become a threat, to the point of even sabotaging his efforts like preventing him from releasing G4 at first. It is weird, I agree, because Oda didn't took his time to properly show Katakuri's reasoning going from point A to point B, but it does makes sense.
At first Katakuri only saw Luffy as a conceived brat, there was no reason to treat him as equal. As the fight progressed, he started seeing Luffy's potential and manifested his worries in what Luffy could become. Thing is, after this chapter, that behavior could be seen as Katakuri also getting interested in Luffy. The fact he avoided killing Luffy - even when he could before - could already be a sign that, as he started recognizing the threat Luffy could become, he was also becoming dazzled by it and wanting to see how far this person could go. The more dangerous Luffy became, the more he had to be taken down, the less Katakuri was willing to do so. Of course, this will need to be aknowledged by Oda at some point because it was not properly shown, so as of now it is more like fanfic than actual content, but it's still early to judge.
Katakuri never being forced down by an enemy means that he never fought someone who matched his strength. Not even close to that. Is not out of this world to imagine that, having finally met an opponent who can grow to his level (and better: in front of his eyes), he is mesmerized by it.This one is kind of weird, I agree. I think maybe initially he just regarded Luffy as a threat because of what he had done, but not a threat that couldn't be handled because of how easily he could have dispatched Luffy if he wanted, so any interference before wouldn't have mattered. But Luffy's stick-to-it-iveness and stubbornness probably started getting the gears in Katakuri's head turning, and he realized there was more than meets the eye, so by the time he started getting more serious, any interference would then be regarded as an obstacle in determining who was truly the superior, once the difference between them became questionable. I mean, how many times did Luffy surprise him? Popping up out of the floor after being engulfed, finding out Katakuri's secret, rattling him enough to land a hit, Luffy earned that acknowledgment, even if Katakuri may have overreacted to it (he is overreacting way more than I projected, to be sure.)
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Thinking about Katakuri respecting Luffy after aggressively trying to kill him until a few moments ago, I think part of the reason for that is how much time he has invested into this fight, willingly or not. Like if you spent hours upon hours workings on some colossal book report for an English class, and then a day before it's due the teacher decides to cancel the project and just give everyone a hundred. I don't you about you, but I would be a little miffed that I spent all that time and effort on doing well only to have success anti-climatically given to me. Katakuri's been fighting Luffy for hours, and then the latter gets badly wounded and beaten down in a matter of seconds thanks to Flampe's interference, he he could be feeling something similar. I still wish the transition was shown a little better, though.
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@No:
Thinking about Katakuri respecting Luffy after aggressively trying to kill him until a few moments ago, I think part of the reason for that is how much time he has invested into this fight, willingly or not. Like if you spent hours upon hours workings on some colossal book report for an English class, and then a day before it's due the teacher decides to cancel the project and just give everyone a hundred. I don't you about you, but I would be a little miffed that I spent all that time and effort on doing well only to have success anti-climatically given to me. Katakuri's been fighting Luffy for hours, and then the latter gets badly wounded and beaten down in a matter of seconds thanks to Flampe's interference, he he could be feeling something similar. I still wish the transition was shown a little better, though.
I forget, did Katakuri (or anyone else) remark about how much trouble he gave Cracker? That could be part of it, like, "I get it…he's more trouble than we estimated. That's on me." You'd think they would figure that, given how Urouge earlier took out one of the other Sweet Commanders. There's clearly blood in the water now that's drawing sharks, so you'd think they'd take things a little more seriously, but no, pride and indolence. But thankfully Katakuri's throwing off all that stuff, maybe that's a good sign for the future. Since Oda doesn't like to kill characters, if Katakuri becomes the new head of the family he might be in a position to take it in a better direction even if the rest are all still sociopaths and are disgusted by his face.
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The most important question is…. HOW DID SHE GET IN THE MIRROR WORLD?
Where is Brulee? -
So I got a free month of viz and I was wondering how I access current chapters, the site is a bit odd on mobile
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The most important question is…. HOW DID SHE GET IN THE MIRROR WORLD?
Where is Brulee?I think Brulee is just keeping it open for Katakuri to get out once he's finished his business, so he doesn't have to wait for her to release him, he can just walk out whenever. Also it's open enough for the underlings to be able to shoot at Luffy from outside, so the mirrors are just constantly open to traffic both in and out. Brulee doesn't necessarily need to be right next to a mirror to activate it. Or inside the mirror world either, apparently. I think.
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@Long:
So I got a free month of viz and I was wondering how I access current chapters, the site is a bit odd on mobile
Use the app, if not: log in, my library and should be there.
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Ah, I remember the days when U.S. Shonen Jump was only 1/3-1/4 caught up to the Japanese publication. I feel old.
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Are we assuming Katakuri's physical strength has now decreased significantly due to his wound, or that Luffy's has increased along with his Observation Haki? Because regardless of Katakuri's vision, everything Luffy threw at him, he threw back bigger and better. I don't know if that's changed but I wouldn't discount his other advantage just yet, not until we confirm either Luffy's current improvement level or Katakuri's handicap level.
Luffy said himself that G4 is stronger and that Kata is not unbeatable, it´s just that Luffy has to overcome Kata´s superior Observation to win, which he is now trying to do.
The reason Kata was able to throw a bigger punch when Luffy attempted Elephant Gun was because he knew what was coming.
One of Luffy´s flashbacks said something like "attacks have an aura to them" and right afterwards Luffy read Kata´s big punch and because he read its strength, he was able to match it. But Kata read what would happen next faster so he was able to follow up the fist clash with a kick that sent Luffy flying.So the whole battle is exactly like Luffy said. Kata seems invincible, because of his Observation. He can dodge everything, aim his attacks to where his oponent is dodging to, know when to use extra Armament etc.
Yet Luffy is still there and getting better at reading.I was also annoyed how Luffy is getting constantly beaten this fight, 98% of the panels we were shown of the duel, and how passive Luffy behaves, which is very unlike his usual self. But even that was explained by Rayleigh "don´t flail around". Luffy is indeed fully focused on improving his Observation to an equal or superior level to Katakuri, because he knows that is the road to victory. Thus he even attempts to dodge attacks with closed eyes at times (it seems).
The level Ray wanted him to achieve is extreme - subconscious, and he seemed to have showcased that just now (unfortunately against Flampe´s attack and not Katakuri´s).I was also looking forward to Luffy upgrading his fighting skills to be able to connect with his powerful moves. That´s his biggest weakness right now. He might have the power to deal damage, but we´ve been shown that his oponents have ways to deal with those. Cracker spammed Armament clones to block, Kata utilizes Observation to freaking create un-hittable spots on his body.
Option (a) is Luffy creates techniques which bind the oponent so he can unleash hell and hit.
Option (b) is Luffy improves Observation to the point where he can effectively choose the best one of the skills in his arsenal to hit, block or dodge the oponent in that moment.Only downside is that Luffy may lose a portion of his "charm" as a fighter. That he goes in head first, throws mad punches and kicks like there´s no tomorrow. But we´ve seen that this gets him into tough spots in the New World. Now I imagine that for example vs Gasboy #1, we would now get to see a rapid escape from Luffy (put a distance between him and Gasboy) when he was about to use his air-sucking move that got Luffy the first time.
So, like, the fights can still be interesting, but Observation should make Luffy less susceptible to surprise stuff (like when the Enraged Army combo owned him) and hax DFs which have always made a fool out of him until now. A negative aspect might be losing some "comedy" in his fights.
I would actually suspect a pretty solid first showing against Kaido after this Observation upgrade to Kaido´s surprise (who will undoubtedly underestimate Luffy). I assume Luffy´s main problem will be overpowering that "thing" in some way.
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No, Maynard absolutely did not. Your statement right at the outset lets me know that you're skewing your entire perspective just to make your point. Maynard existed 1.) To show the marines had infiltrated the tournament, and 2.) Build hype for Bartolomeo. That's all. He had a few other lines here and there towards the end of the arc, but he had exactly ZERO character, because he didn't need one. He served his 1-chapter function to the plot and was not heard from again. Just like Flampe.
Maynard in Dressrossa ->
1. Colliseum with Bartolomeu
2. Toys turning to human
3. During the charge to Palace(You remember that amazing mangapanda translations about fujitora and Sabo?)
4. Rescuing people during the birdcage
5. Fujitora bowing down to king riku
6. Marine charge against Luffy and his alliance.Yep, it totally is like flampe and her one part scene.
And stop responding to another people response with further explanation of what you were trying to say the first time. Just accept you were wrong, and then say what you were in fact trying to tell. You said he was like her a 1 scene character. He appeared all throughout Dressrossa. In my response I even said that his parts throughout the arc were small, that doesn't remove the fact that was many parts throughout the arc.
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Luffy was "killed" twi…THREE times by Crocodile. Once by Lucci in Water 7. By Aokiji. And extra "killed" by Magellan.
We could complain for days that previous enemies didn't proceed to chop off Luffy's head and desecrate the corpse just to be extra sure he was dead Dead DEAD, but in order to enjoy ANY story, you have to have some suspension of disbelief, right? And that's not even the case for Katakuri, cause Katakuri has NOT been able to kill Luffy.
Lol, you're funny. Don't you understand that Luffy WAS DEFEATED by Crocodile, Lucci, Aokiji and Magellan, BUT he wasn't by Katakuri.
Now consider the time it took Crocodile to defeat Luffy? The first time? The second Time? Ah, it was pretty fast, and the only real advantage that Crocodile had against Luffy was being Intangible and a master of his fruit. Look at Katakuri advantages against Luffy in comparison, and tell me how does fighting for hours against Luffy without being able to defeat him compares with crocodile.
Lucci, wasn't even that much stronger than Luffy, but opposite to the incompetent Katakuri, he pirced Luffy chest and threw him all across Water 7 to the Ocean. Now that his a pretty efficient way to defeat an enemy, and you could even say it wasn't that good, due to the fact that he didn't verified the death/defeat of his opponent.
Aokiji was being totally lazy and negligent in that fight and won in the most fast and easy way ever seen. Totally comparable with the hours Katakuri is taking with Luffy.
I would say that Magellan vs Luffy fight is the most comparable fight to the Katakuari vs Luffy fight, with the difference between Katakuri and Luffy still being bigger than Magellan vs Luffy. And, And you remember the pownage Luffy got? And how fast that was? Yep, It didn't took Magellan hours to defeat Luffy, not even many minutes.
Suspension of disbelief, is not accept anything. That is the most stupid excuse people like to tell. You're comparing an enemy not getting extra sure the enemy his really defeated, something that in real life most people don't do, and most times isn't really needed. Your enemy being saves by your ally(Robin saving Luffy), being saved by pure luck(the bubble that fall right into luffy), instead of falling into the sea being stuck between buildings, are things that really don't happen that much in real life.
I would say that you need suspension of disbelief for the lucky ways in which the good guys are able to escape those perils, and not the fact that the enemy didn't take extra precaution about their defeat.Has you said the problem isn't about defeating and what was done after. The problem is that Katakuri is so incompetent he can't even get one.
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Katakuri hasn't been able to kill Luffy thus far because Luffy has been successful in preventing him from doing so. It's that simple. How weak are you presuming Luffy to be? We know what would've happened if Katakuri had attacked Luffy immediately after he had been knocked to the ground, because it JUST happened in this chapter: Luffy would've avoided him. Also, in a fight, no one can keep up a relentless attack; the aggressor, if he's smart, knows he has to pause in a fight as not to burn through all of his stamina and be left defenseless.
Lol, are you reading the same thing? Are you seeing Katakuri letting Luffy getting up after being taken to the ground. Are you telling me that he has to give that time? Are you so accustomed to watching boxing and Wrestling that you think real fights are like that?
The most funny thing is that when Luffy got into Gear 4th he didn't let Katakuri any time to breath, but you think is normal for Katakuri to give all the time of the world for luffy to do the same.And what about the effeciency of Katakui attacks. Are you telling me that while Crocodile with his hook, Luccy with his fangs, can pierce Luffy chest, but Katakuri can't do anything of the kind. If with the help of Flampe shot he was able to pierce a little, think what he would be able to do in the many times luffy fell to the ground, and when he locked him up with Mochi. Not only to talk about the other many thing he could do. Is not like the fight is even, or anything close to that, that would be a risk to try something of the kind.
Lol, the aggessor know he has to pause? LOL. you're funny. The aggressor the one that his hitting is the one that will burn his staminas and be left defenseless? Like how Luffy Gear 4th to Doflamingo and to Katakuri, or any time luffy fights against his opponents to breath. You just made me remember Luffy gear 2nd and Blueno fight. Such an amazing fight where Luffy stopped in the middle of pounding Blueno, because otherwise he would burn through all of his stamina and be left defenselles. :facepalm.
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The thing with Katakuri switching to the honor code this chapter: He had a character development. It happens. Oda wanted to give him a character arc in the short time he's on screen, so that's what we're seeing here. Sure, he made this declaration to kill Luffy, yet was ONLY able to land a fatal blow with the help from fodder? That had to have hurt his pride. These people value their pride; rep is everything to a Yonkou. Why would it not be for a Yonkou's top commander? How many times has the BMP stated that preserving their reputation is their top motivation for killing the Strawhats?
Lol, like it happens all the time with Fairy Tail. His character development. Lol. You certainly don't know what character development his, if you think acting irrational is character development.
You're trying to excuse something without excusing it. The problem is not what it is that Oda was trying to do or did. The problem is that what he did was horrible. Be it Chracter development, character arc or something else. If something doesn't make any sense, is stupid, and makes the character literally retarded, it doesn't matter if is a strong writing tool that the author is using.
Also what honor code? I totally am seeing people don't know about honor code. Honor code isn't outside context. Is not like if you do something that is honorable in a situation, that makes that act always honorable. Harakiri isn't in all situations honorable.
Handicapping yourself to make the fight even, due to some unwanting cheating, highly depends on the type of fight. Is not like if you do that during a army battle, doing that is honorable, is not like when you're in an anihilation assault against a robber, assassin, doing that is honorable(that is the actual situation). In fact that is totally retarded."These people value their pride" -> A affirmation without base. Note that you first have to show that, before saying it, not the other way around.
What has reputation to do with the pride you're talking about. The keeping reputation in this case means, killing them in the most fast, efficient and humiliating manner possible, in such a way that shows them, and everybody that will try to do the same thing that the crew is not to be trifled against.
That you think hurting themselves is the same thing as that reputation they are trying to preserve is ridiculous.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, giving himself this wound does NOT erase the hours of beating damage that Luffy has taken, and people seem to forget that–they are still very far from being evenly hurt.
What has them being far from being evenly hurt has anything to do with him hurting himself? It was a stupid action.
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Underlings making fun of a top dog? That's a new thing. Is it not okay for One Piece to have a new dynamic? Flampe wasn't worried about being killed because she's family–she knows Katakuri would never kill his own sister. It's the same reason Shanks didn't kill that Bandit gang at the beginning of the story--at some point, you are simply above the opinion of the peanut gallery.
Bad writing for a series with such good writing as One Piece throughout its 20 years, is a new thing. Just because is a new thing, a new dynamic, it doesn't mean is OK.
Who talked about Flampe? Certainly not me.
Shanks did in fact killed one of the bandits of that Bandit gang. Do you remember Lucky Roo head shot? And the only reason he didn't killed the rest is because Becham totally anihilated them without much effort.
Know what you're talking before you try to use it as a defense, please. -
Not going to respond to all of this discussion, but I’m just going to say that nobody can say for sure whether or not Flampe’s role in the story is 100% done yet.
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I'm busy right now so I can't post my full thoughts on the debate so far, but I don't really get the complaint about Katakuri not being pragmatic in battle when literally in the first few pages of the chapter he assaulted Luffy as soon as Luffy showed movement, and constantly pressed an attack until he pummeled Luffy into the ground. What fights have there been where the opponent has attacked nonstop? Even in the Magellan fight, Luffy was given breathing room after Magellan's various attacks and Magellan didn't assault him with different techniques in a rapid-fire style. Like maaaybe you could point out that Katakuri took a little more time for Luffy after the big assault, but was that the deciding factor in anything?
Also, the argument that Flampe will never be remembered can't be logically made right now for multiple reasons.
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I don't mean to meet your wall of text with one of my own, but your post just makes it sound as if you are TRYING to unenjoy the chapter, and I don't know why.
I didn't try to unenjoy anything. I in fact hated pretty much anything in this chapter. It wasn't me looking after stuff to hate, is just that stuff hit me in the face.
And that stuff HAS ABSOLUTELY been in One Piece before! It's a Shonen series, just like the others you've namechecked, so OF COURSE it has used the same tropes. It's been superior cause the main characters are more engaging and the world that has been presented to us is really interesting to see. But make no mistake: Luffy has power-of-friendship'd his way through almost the entire story.
The stupid "It's a shonen series" and "shonen tropes" card. This totally shows your incompetence in reading the story. When reading something, don't look at what others have, each fiction, is its own closed world.
Also you say that stuff has absolutely been in One Piece before, but you didn't present even one such case. Please enlight me.
First, what has the "power of friendship" anything to do with this chapter? Second, tell me where in the series did Luffy got that? Against Alvida? Against Morgan? Buggy, Kuro, Don Krieg, Arlong, Smoker, Laboon, Mr. 3, Wapol, Crocodile, Bellamy, Enel, Foxy, Aokiji, Franky, Blueno, Lucci, Oz, Moria, Kuma, Kizaru, Hancock sisters, Magellan, Admirals, Hody jones, Caesar Clown, Doflamingo, Cracker, Katakuri? Where?
EDIT: Hell, the ENTIRE CREW should've been killed in the Supernovae arc.
Should? Why?
EDIT 2: Upon further inspection, the "I no longer think you're below my level" bit was clearly a reaction to Luffy's burst of Conqueror's Haki. For him to be in that state and still giving off that kind of presence definitely warrants recognition.
So you're saying that having one thing at the "same level" is the same has being "the same level". … OK? :facepalm
Since when recognition, is being the same level? I'm understanding that your scale only has 2 points. Not and Yes. You don't have any other granularity.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
I'm busy right now so I can't post my full thoughts on the debate so far, but I don't really get the complaint about Katakuri not being pragmatic in battle when literally in the first few pages of the chapter he assaulted Luffy as soon as Luffy showed movement, and constantly pressed an attack until he pummeled Luffy into the ground. What fights have there been where the opponent has attacked nonstop? Even in the Magellan fight, Luffy was given breathing room after Magellan's various attacks and Magellan didn't assault him with different techniques in a rapid-fire style. Like maaaybe you could point out that Katakuri took a little more time for Luffy after the big assault, but was that the deciding factor in anything?
Also, the argument that Flampe will never be remembered can't be logically made right now for multiple reasons.
Did or did not Magellan defeated Luffy pretty easily and fast. Did I said that Katakuri at the beginning of the fight should just end it as fast as possible? And did I say that the entire fight he waited for Luffy to catch a breath.
You're removing what is important. The fact that Katakuri is fighting Luffy for hours. That he is pummeling him time after time. That Luffy is getting up, time after time. And that Katakuri is giving time to getting up, catch a breath and most time decide what to do next.
All of that has been happening in a cycle that has been repeating many times.Do you know what happens when you shoot a zombie and he gets up. You start shooting more and with less time between them. And that before you change your strategy. What are the things that Katakuri haven't been doing? Increasing the pressure(more attacks and less time between them) and changing strategies.
Is incredible how people think is OK, that a fight with such a gap in capabilities can be taking so much time, without the fact that the stronger fighter is a total incompetent fool.
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@.access:
EDIT: Removing my post because I feel embarrassed I dedicated so much time to answer someone who constantly uses "lol" and trash talking in their replies. Now I feel stupid by association.
Or just afraid of the response! And embarrassed of how bad your answer was.
Well your points were all wrong. I remember one. The one where the fact that Katakuri not being able to beat luffy after hours, as a point to him recognizing Luffy as equal.
Well, if you play chess and you totally destroy your opponent in the opening and middle game phase, where he just ends with the king, and you with a significant army. If you are unable to checkmate him after a long time, that doesn't make him equal to you. He pretty much is still way weaker than you. Is just the fact that you're horrible at finishing the game.
So pretty much you're incompetent, negligent, retarded. Not him that is strong.
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Or just afraid of the response! And embarrassed of how bad your answer was.
Well your points were all wrong. I remember one.
My post is entirely quoted below it, genius, at least I am smart enough to notice that.
Seriously, take your chill pill, your tone alone is so cringe I doubt anyone will actually bother reading your post.
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@.access:
My post is entirely quoted below it, genius, at least I am smart enough to notice that.
Seriously, take your chill pill, your tone alone is so cringe I doubt anyone will actually bother reading your post.
Making you a genius for removing your previous post, and then trying to look smart to post about it.
Is good to know that your response wasn't about the chapter nor anything that I posted about it. Seems you don't have confidence in your own stance, good!
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Not going to respond to all of this discussion, but I’m just going to say that nobody can say for sure whether or not Flampe’s role in the story is 100% done yet.
Or that meaningless, she greatly impacted the fight with them, he correctly forseen the next attack but failed to notice it wasn't from kata. She may have single handedly stopped Luffy from surpassing kata and kept him merely at same level.
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Making you a genius for removing your previous post, and then trying to look smart to post about it.
Is good to know that your response wasn't about the chapter nor anything that I posted about it. Seems you don't have confidence in your own stance, good!
Quick, while he's still confused, reveal your trap card!
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access timeco:
Seriously, take your chill pill, your tone alone is so cringe I doubt anyone will actually bother reading your post.This. I don't post very often because I try to read and fully understand everyone's points and I almost always learn more for the effort. Whether or not there is agreement on a story intended for kids, most people are able to be respectful about it. For someone to attack opposing views, to me, shows the true weakness.
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Did or did not Magellan defeated Luffy pretty easily and fast. Did I said that Katakuri at the beginning of the fight should just end it as fast as possible? And did I say that the entire fight he waited for Luffy to catch a breath.
You're removing what is important. The fact that Katakuri is fighting Luffy for hours. That he is pummeling him time after time. That Luffy is getting up, time after time. And that Katakuri is giving time to getting up, catch a breath and most time decide what to do next.
All of that has been happening in a cycle that has been repeating many times.Do you know what happens when you shoot a zombie and he gets up. You start shooting more and with less time between them. And that before you change your strategy. What are the things that Katakuri haven't been doing? Increasing the pressure(more attacks and less time between them) and changing strategies.
Is incredible how people think is OK, that a fight with such a gap in capabilities can be taking so much time, without the fact that the stronger fighter is a total incompetent fool.
Your comparison of Magellan is off the mark though. You said he did not relent on Luffy, but that Katakuri did. But Magellan took time between attacks, enough to allow Luffy to try getting some hits in and say words and stuff. Magellan won a lot quicker because he has poison and Katakuri has his fists and trident. You should be able to tell which of them is more deadly.
Also, is Luffy's endurance really that much of a worrying factor for Katakuri and Flampe? Katakuri being suspicious of a limit break powerup may be a bit genre savvy, but that perspective really isn't common. Let's say a TV show you watch slows down the pace a ridiculous amount, to the point where a climax really should have happened by now but hasn't. Would your reaction be to build up excitement for the climax, since there must obviously be a reason why the buildup has been this long and thus it's going to lead into something huge, or would you instead get really exasperated and plead for the end of the arc to come as soon as possible? You gave the example of shooting a zombie, but would you change your tactics if it looked like the shots were doing well enough at destroying the zombie's body? Katakuri initially had no reason to suspect a limit break sort of thing. Luffy's thrown almost everything in his arsenal at him and has barely left a scratch, and Katakuri's COO has been a security blanket to him for almost the whole fight. With a situation like that, that's not a telltale sign of any kind of buildup, that's just Luffy prolonging his eventual death. Katakuri only realized what Luffy was attempting to do like a minute ago, and sped up his attack to compensate for it. Flampe has even less reason to realize what Luffy's doing, since she doesn't know about Haki, and she's only trying to attack Luffy to gain Katakuri's favor. This fight is a credit to Luffy's strength, not Katakuri's weakness - capability is about so much more than how hard you can punch, it affects basically every fighting instinct, including resolve and learning how to improve in the fight.
Katakuri has been focused on Luffy and only Luffy since immediately after the wedding ended. In Chapter 873, he said he would take Luffy's head himself as he fears that Luffy will become a great threat to Big Mom if he escapes. He sat by and watched when Perospero and the soldiers attacked Brook and Chopper, and when he got into the action, the only thing he did to anyone other than Luffy was quickly subdue Carrot when she attempted to attack him. In the Mirro-World, he repeatedly punished Luffy for trying to stop Brulee and her goons, reminding him that the fight was just between the two of them. Katakuri would not initially have much reason to respect Luffy as he trashed Luffy thanks to his Haki and Devil Fruit and when Luffy escaped Katakuri was even fine with him leaving at that point since the difference between their abilities had proven to be enormous. But then Luffy comes back and Katakuri realizes that he's managing to close the gap. Suddenly, Flampe strikes and widens the gap again. Katakuri removes the artificial gap after discovering Flampe's intrusion on his personal goal and regains his respect for Luffy after he had been duped into losing it. People tend to view a lot of things more strongly if they find it again after losing it, and I'd easily imagine Katakuri had the same reaction here.
Katakuri's quest was never a pragmatic attempt to eliminate one of Big Mom's enemies as quickly as possible. Otherwise he could have just collapsed the whole realm in on Luffy with no way of escape. He saw it as a personal challenge to him, one that was heavily based on pride. When he jumped out to a big advantage on Luffy, it seemed like everything would stick to the status quo. He would maintain his image as the perfect undefeated warrior of the Big Mom Pirates. But when Luffy got better and it took Flampe's interference to maintain his advantage, Katakuri got mad at Flampe and dropped his act because it had failed him and prevented him from fully rising up to Luffy's new threat level.
Was Katakuri's development perfectly written? No - I think the manga could have benefitted from more moments of Katakuri exemplifying his pride to others while fighting Luffy. Maybe a direct action or display of strength from Luffy could have been sufficient at establishing himself as Kata's equal as opposed to Flampe messing around with Kata's expectations. But to me this has not been as random and forced as some people seem to think it is, and I hope it pays dividends for Katakuri beyond this arc.
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Still think Katakuri fell in love because Luffy didn't make any comment about his mouth, so now Kata is all over the place with his feelings.
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@Kaido:
Your comparison of Magellan is off the mark though. You said he did not relent on Luffy, but that Katakuri did. But Magellan took time between attacks, enough to allow Luffy to try getting some hits in and say words and stuff. Magellan won a lot quicker because he has poison and Katakuri has his fists and trident. You should be able to tell which of them is more deadly.
Also, is Luffy's endurance really that much of a worrying factor for Katakuri and Flampe? Katakuri being suspicious of a limit break powerup may be a bit genre savvy, but that perspective really isn't common. Let's say a TV show you watch slows down the pace a ridiculous amount, to the point where a climax really should have happened by now but hasn't. Would your reaction be to build up excitement for the climax, since there must obviously be a reason why the buildup has been this long and thus it's going to lead into something huge, or would you instead get really exasperated and plead for the end of the arc to come as soon as possible? You gave the example of shooting a zombie, but would you change your tactics if it looked like the shots were doing well enough at destroying the zombie's body? Katakuri initially had no reason to suspect a limit break sort of thing. Luffy's thrown almost everything in his arsenal at him and has barely left a scratch, and Katakuri's COO has been a security blanket to him for almost the whole fight. With a situation like that, that's not a telltale sign of any kind of buildup, that's just Luffy prolonging his eventual death. Katakuri only realized what Luffy was attempting to do like a minute ago, and sped up his attack to compensate for it. Flampe has even less reason to realize what Luffy's doing, since she doesn't know about Haki, and she's only trying to attack Luffy to gain Katakuri's favor. This fight is a credit to Luffy's strength, not Katakuri's weakness - capability is about so much more than how hard you can punch, it affects basically every fighting instinct, including resolve and learning how to improve in the fight.
Katakuri has been focused on Luffy and only Luffy since immediately after the wedding ended. In Chapter 873, he said he would take Luffy's head himself as he fears that Luffy will become a great threat to Big Mom if he escapes. He sat by and watched when Perospero and the soldiers attacked Brook and Chopper, and when he got into the action, the only thing he did to anyone other than Luffy was quickly subdue Carrot when she attempted to attack him. In the Mirro-World, he repeatedly punished Luffy for trying to stop Brulee and her goons, reminding him that the fight was just between the two of them. Katakuri would not initially have much reason to respect Luffy as he trashed Luffy thanks to his Haki and Devil Fruit and when Luffy escaped Katakuri was even fine with him leaving at that point since the difference between their abilities had proven to be enormous. But then Luffy comes back and Katakuri realizes that he's managing to close the gap. Suddenly, Flampe strikes and widens the gap again. Katakuri removes the artificial gap after discovering Flampe's intrusion on his personal goal and regains his respect for Luffy after he had been duped into losing it. People tend to view a lot of things more strongly if they find it again after losing it, and I'd easily imagine Katakuri had the same reaction here.
Katakuri's quest was never a pragmatic attempt to eliminate one of Big Mom's enemies as quickly as possible. Otherwise he could have just collapsed the whole realm in on Luffy with no way of escape. He saw it as a personal challenge to him, one that was heavily based on pride. When he jumped out to a big advantage on Luffy, it seemed like everything would stick to the status quo. He would maintain his image as the perfect undefeated warrior of the Big Mom Pirates. But when Luffy got better and it took Flampe's interference to maintain his advantage, Katakuri got mad at Flampe and dropped his act because it had failed him and prevented him from fully rising up to Luffy's new threat level.
Was Katakuri's development perfectly written? No - I think the manga could have benefitted from more moments of Katakuri exemplifying his pride to others while fighting Luffy. Maybe a direct action or display of strength from Luffy could have been sufficient at establishing himself as Kata's equal as opposed to Flampe messing around with Kata's expectations. But to me this has not been as random and forced as some people seem to think it is, and I hope it pays dividends for Katakuri beyond this arc.
That was a brilliant read. Anyone who's confused about Katakuri's motives/actions needs to read this.
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I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again. Luffy and Katakuri are literally unable to have any impact on the fate of Tottoland, Big Mom's rampage, or the battle with the Strawhats. The winner of this fight will have no bearing on the resolution of those plot threads. There is nothing at stake besides pride and the thrill of the battle. For either party.
Katakuri's attitude strikes as being one of someone who hasn't been really challenged in a long time. Two chapters ago he was arrogant, almost casual in the way he knocked Luffy back down as he was trying to get up and explained that all Luffy would get was frustrated if he kept fighting the way he did. He finally found his challenge when Luffy began seeing the future, and that was ripped away right when it started to get good because of Flampe. Of course he's mad.
I compared Katakuri's handicap before to sacrificing one of your stocks in a game because your friend lost one to something stupid like a controller dying or someone walking in front of the screen. You do it in the interest of fairness, because you're there to challenge each other, and I think that's the point Luffy and Katakuri have reached. It just comes in the form of stabbing yourself here because One Piece is ridiculous and over the top like that.
If any other villain in the series had tried this it would have felt wrong because all the others had plans in progress that Luffy will destroy when he gets past them. But Kata just doesn't have that. It's only pride, and he's decided that his want of a challenge, and the personal pride of beating an opponent on a level playing field is more important than the family's pride, or the proud appearance he's put up within it. And again, he can afford to do that because literally what the consequences if he loses? There ain't any.
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I compared Katakuri's handicap before to sacrificing one of your stocks in a game because your friend lost one to something stupid like a controller dying or someone walking in front of the screen. You do it in the interest of fairness, because you're there to challenge each other, and I think that's the point Luffy and Katakuri have reached. It just comes in the form of stabbing yourself here because One Piece is ridiculous and over the top like that.
That is a FANTASTIC real life analogy for what Katakuri did.
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I thought him losing meant that Luffy got a step closer to becoming a threat to Big Mom. Seems that is not important anymore.
I don't think there is confusion about what Katakuri has done, it just wasn't presented strongly and to make sense of it you got to interpret certain beats, a certain way and then it kinda works. There is little issue with Kata's pride/honour, it is just a wish that it was presented better.
Like giving the organ dealer a chance to shoot first, to give him a fair chance. Or if he maybe yelled his attack before hand. In a way of saying: even if I tell you what I am doing, you can't do anything about it. But anyways, Kata is in luv.