Zamasu was right… NINGENS are the worst...
Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly
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So many questions right now….
How will this arc tie-up? I think a few months is more than enough to wrap up the tournament (which has gone on far too long). It's hard to know how if it will change the overall planned plot.
Did Akira Toriyama have problems with the quality, will he still be involved in the future?
How the the December film tie-in with Super/Z/previous two films in terms of continuity?
Will Super return? -
It's apparently ending in March on episode 131.
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I'm both relieved and disappointed that it's finally over. For now…
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Did Akira Toriyama have problems with the quality, will he still be involved in the future?
Lol. He doesn't care about the quality of the anime. Its a big paycheck for him doing almost no work.
And his involvement has thus far been super minimal. He was extremely involved in Battle of the Gods and it shows, he 100% worked on and contributed to that. The comedy, the twists, the random crap like including a deaged Pilof gang and having Trunks crush on Mai, Beerus and WHis in general (as opposed to every other movie villain) the fortune telling fish, Vegeta having to embarass himself, the design on SS God being sleeked down instead of bulked up, having Goku lose… that's all absolutely Toriyama.
But he's done little more than broad concepts and a couple designs since... and it also shows.
The series has felt entirely like filler, there's been almost no Toriyama style big twists or humor or pacing or big moment payoffs, or even designs for the most part. His involvement never mattered, but getting him to do a sketch of Trunks and a couple gods of destruction lets them say he was involved and overseeing things.
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It does seem weird to me though that they decide to set up this "12 Universes" thing from all the way back to Battle of Gods. We finally get a tournament of them fighting….except 4 that are apparently stronger than the rest.
And we're gonna end without seeing them. So hopefully they do something with this in the next movie.
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Everytime I read a Robby post I almost feel bad for liking Super. Almost.
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Super has made me care a lot more about vegeta than Z ever did tbh so of there's one positive to it Id say it's that, although that makes vegeta sound undeŕdeveloped when he had a pretty big arc in z
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Super's interesting because no person I've ever talked to has the same opinion on it.
The very vocal dislikers and likers obviously really like to parade their opinion as fact, but that's the internet and that's about all the commonalities I've encountered personally.
I guess the recap arcs also seem pretty universally disliked, but some defend the SoL stuff in there.
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Lol. He doesn't care about the quality of the anime. Its a big paycheck for him doing almost no work.
And his involvement has thus far been super minimal. He was extremely involved in Battle of the Gods and it shows, he 100% worked on and contributed to that. The comedy, the twists, the random crap like including a deaged Pilof gang and having Trunks crush on Mai, Beerus and WHis in general (as opposed to every other movie villain) the fortune telling fish, Vegeta having to embarass himself, the design on SS God being sleeked down instead of bulked up, having Goku lose… that's all absolutely Toriyama.
But he's done little more than broad concepts and a couple designs since... and it also shows.
The series has felt entirely like filler, there's been almost no Toriyama style big twists or humor or pacing or big moment payoffs, or even designs for the most part. His involvement never mattered, but getting him to do a sketch of Trunks and a couple gods of destruction lets them say he was involved and overseeing things.
He also gave me Rose.
So he delivered much more than Oda since post TS
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And we're gonna end without seeing them. So hopefully they do something with this in the next movie.
They've already said the next movie is going to be a thing about Saiyans. So probably not.
That stuff is going to be saved for escalation when they return.
Everytime I read a Robby post I almost feel bad for liking Super. Almost.
Don't misunderstand. The show is fine. And if it had come out 20 years ago when I still was really taken by the movies and was desperate for more Dragonball I would have loved it. Heck, I even tolerated some parts of GT at the time!
But it is in no way being shaped or guided by Toriyama, no matter what the advertising says. Not in any sort of detail or way that matters, at any rate. He's maybe going "Maybe have an arc with evil Goku" or "have a big universe tournament" but that's the end of it.
It's basically like all the One Piece movies from before Oda started writing them. It does the job of showing more of the characters and having another adventure, but it lacks it's true spark and charm.
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Thinking more about it, maybe a (soft) reboot/splitting into a new series really would help considering people still can't seem to let episode 5 go.
Also, talking about budget. I guess the latter is more understandable if they're not familiar with anime production at all, but it's still annoying. But then again, that's also with any anime.
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At the very least, Super brought Caulifla to the series, so that's nice. I dunno if Toriyama designed her like some of the GoD, but I assume he did.
As for the humor, the joke that felt most like a Toriyama joke to me was in Return of Frieza when Jaco comes to warn Bulma and Dr. Briefs shows him the koi pond and he gets momentarily completely distracted.
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If Toriyama had designed any of the combatants, they would have advertised it. The same way they advertised him designing half of the GoD's or Trunk's redesign. (But didn't advertise him designing the angels despite them appearing at the same time… because he probably didn't do any of them and they're all boring copies of Whis with no thought put into them)
If they didn't do a full page magazine ad showcasing the Toriyama sketch, you can assume someone else did it. ESPECIALLY when it came to the tournament needing dozens of designs all at once.
Caulifa doesn't really have any of his design sensibilities. He doesn't tend to do tube tops, (actually aside from battle bikini young Chi chi, he keeps them pretty modest) and I can't think of any time he's done parachute pants that taper out quite that much all the way to the ankle. In Dragonball, Dragon Quest, or Chrono Trigger. Baggy pants that end in boots sure, but never really a design like that. Plus he tends to give women smoother or curvier hair rather than spikier, so no, probably not his design. Even his one canon female Saiyan design of Goku's mother, while spikier than his norm for women, it pretty subdued compared to the other saiyans. If she'd been in a tube top, but also had a jacket, or been wearing long sleeves, or siayan armor variant, or the pants were different, maybe, but... that's a bunch of little things that scream "different artist."
The design on Kale was absolutely not his (that hairstyle is unlike anything he's done) and they were most certainly designed at the same time.
I would actually guess in this case they started with female Broly design, and then pulled back from there to figure out what haircut and outfit pieces would give a Broli look. If Toriyama did a final pass afterwards he might have tweaked a thing or two, but it just overall doesn't match his sensibilities.
It's kind of like when you look at the Space Battleship Yamato remake and you can tell which characters were designed decades ago by Leiji Matsumoto and which ones were more recent because the hair styles and faces are completely different and it was actually pretty jarring. (Hint- basically all of the girls.)
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Caulifla is Toriyama's design.
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! Here Come(s) A New Saiyan!!!
Exclusive subject! A female Saiyan arrives!!
A new Saiyan has been confirmed for Dragon Ball Super!! Is she a Saiyan from the 6th or 7th Universe – which is it!? In any case, this time it’s clear this character requires our full attention!!
! A character sheet by Akira Toriyama-sensei is published!!!
She’s supposed to be a Saiyan… however…
If you take a good look at her backside on the character sheet… even though she’s a Saiyan, she has no tail!?
! [The] new Saiyan also appears in the opening video!?
In the opening video, [the]† female Saiyan has already appeared!!
! Obviously Yonkouprod's the source. -
Again Goku Black and Rose have been the ideas of Toriyama
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Chapter 32!
As slow as some of the tournament episodes were, I still appreciated the character focus it gave the characters. It was why Super grew on me. I hoped there would be a few more chapters where the characters would be reestablished. Like, even if the ToP wraps undoing it all, it still at least happened that the other characters were acknowledged somewhat substantially. The manga version would cause less disappointment as a result, but I actually take it all existing over nothing.
Basically all of Krillin's, Gohan's and Freeza's stuff was skipped, coincidentally some of my favorite material of the arc and Super as a whole. Tenshinhan didn't even get his dojo. I liked how the relationships between characters were reestablished, too. We saw Krillin and 18 working together, Gohan and Piccolo working together, Gohan and Goku have a moment and Freeza was handled with much more importance.
It should be noted that they can do flashbacks during the tournament, but some of the characters haven't even had small side stuff in the manga. I think reintroductions like the anime did would've been better. Even just 1-2 more chapters.
Those who really find power levels important, Kale's transformation wasn't shown and Caulifla only learned Super Saiyan, not 2. Goku also straight-up brings up his loss for Toppo as a reasoning to bring Freeza along, which I think makes bringing Freeza back a little more understandable. The point is straight-up stated that the other universes might have stronger fighters than 7. This is all implied and understandable from the anime, but I guess making the characters state it loud makes it clear.
Regardless, I actually like this chapter. Again, compared to most of the manga, it had personalty. Goku's plunders actually didn't feel overblown, either. That's always a bonus.
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! If Toriyama had designed any of the combatants, they would have advertised it. The same way they advertised him designing half of the GoD's or Trunk's redesign. (But didn't advertise him designing the angels despite them appearing at the same time… because he probably didn't do any of them and they're all boring copies of Whis with no thought put into them) If they didn't do a full page magazine ad showcasing the Toriyama sketch, you can assume someone else did it. ESPECIALLY when it came to the tournament needing dozens of designs all at once. Caulifa doesn't really have any of his design sensibilities. He doesn't tend to do tube tops, (actually aside from battle bikini young Chi chi, he keeps them pretty modest) and I can't think of any time he's done parachute pants that taper out quite that much all the way to the ankle. In Dragonball, Dragon Quest, or Chrono Trigger. Baggy pants that end in boots sure, but never really a design like that. Plus he tends to give women smoother or curvier hair rather than spikier, so no, probably not his design. Even his one canon female Saiyan design of Goku's mother, while spikier than his norm for women, it pretty subdued compared to the other saiyans. If she'd been in a tube top, but also had a jacket, or been wearing long sleeves, or siayan armor variant, or the pants were different, maybe, but... that's a bunch of little things that scream "different artist." The design on Kale was absolutely not his (that hairstyle is unlike anything he's done) and they were most certainly designed at the same time. I would actually guess in this case they started with female Broly design, and then pulled back from there to figure out what haircut and outfit pieces would give a Broli look.
It's kind of like when you look at the Space Battleship Yamato remake and you can tell which characters were designed decades ago by Leiji Matsumoto and which ones were more recent because the hair styles and faces are completely different and it was actually pretty jarring. (Hint- basically all of the girls.)He designed more than what you think. Surely not all of the 80 fighters, probably not even 10, but he did design some.
Even though it feels like self advertising, please read the next quoteActually, many of the designs you see in Super are Toriyama's.
I don't know why they don't look like Toriyama's to you, maybe it's due to his style changing over the years.
But as far as I know, Original universe 6 fighters, Black & Zamasu, Caulifla, and some of the gods of distuction + some of the angels, are all done by Toriyama.!
And no, they don't need to advertise them that much, in fact, Zamasu and Black are 100% Toriyama's, yet this fact was never really a point of attention.
Here's a comparison between Toriyama's Black and the anime's!
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Thank god its ending.
If they ever wanna bring dbz back again just make it shorter seasons with better animation and scripts please.
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Thank god its ending.
If they ever wanna bring dbz back again just make it shorter seasons with better animation and scripts please.
It will come back, though, I'm afraid. With better scripts? How about introducing something bigger than the multiverse? Like the omniverse. And there's someone more powerful (and more generic) than the Omni-King. And here comes the kicker: A tournament between all the multiverses because the bigger the better. But you won't guess the next great idea…
! How about introducing something bigger than the omniverse? Like the beyondverse. And there's someone more powerful (and more generic) than the Beyond-King. And here comes the kicker: A tournament between all the omniverses because the bigger the better the bigger the better the bigger the better.
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Again Goku Black and Rose have been the ideas of Toriyama
Again, there is a difference between going
"Hey, maybe have evil Goku"
and
"Okay, In the alternate timeline, Future Trunks is running and hiding from a mysterious being, causing destruction all over with its ki blasts. He enters a building and meets with his mother, Future Bulma, who is working on an experiment, and is relieved that Future Trunks is well. Future Bulma is working on the Time Machine, and has prepared enough fuel for a one-way trip to the past, betting that there will be another way a round-trip can be made. Future Trunks offers to take the fuel back to Capsule Corporation, and tells Future Bulma to rest, but Future Bulma insists on coming with him, in case "that guy" attacks. As they prepare to leave, an explosion is made close to them, which destroys Future Bulma's equipment. Future Bulma sees something coming, and gives Future Trunks the fuel and tells him to go, before a mysterious being grabs Future Bulma. Future Bulma tells Trunks to hurry, when the mysterious being charges a Ki Blast and blows up the building, which kills Future Bulma. Future Trunks, promising to save this world, flees while more explosions are made.
Back in the present timeline, at Goku's house, Goku shows his newly-grown vegetable farm to Chi-Chi and Goten. Piccolo asks Goku why he called him, and Goku wants to train by collecting the entire harvest. Goku tells Piccolo that work can also be training, as Master Roshi trained him and Krillin as kids by making them work. Goten wants to join too, but Chi-Chi says he must study. While Goku and Piccolo are having an intense competition harvesting, Krillin arrives and wonders why Goku is okay with doing this while Vegeta is off training at Beerus' planet. Overhearing this, Goku begins sensing for Vegeta's ki. On Beerus' planet, Vegeta is training with Whis. When Vegeta transforms into a Super Saiyan Blue, Goku locks onto his ki, and teleports. Everyone is surprised but Krillin, who is forced by Chi-Chi to harvest in Goku's place. As Vegeta charges, Goku teleports in front of him, and bumps into him. Goku calls Vegeta sneaky, while Vegeta calls Goku stupid. Beerus asks if Goku brought him a gift, and Goku gives him the ball of lettuce he has been holding. Beerus enjoys the lettuce, but tells Goku that it is a gift too small for a God.
In the alternate timeline, Future Trunks knocks on a door, and meets up with Future Mai. Future Trunks tells Future Mai that Future Bulma died in order for Future Trunks to escape, as Goku Black is now able to sense his ki. Future Trunks shows Future Mai the fuel, telling her that they can now return to the past.
Back on Beerus' planet, Goku, Vegeta, Beerus and Whis are eating cups of ramen as they discuss the Omni-King. Beerus says Zeno doesn't fight, but he is indeed the strongest being and no one is above him. Whis says that Zeno can destroy anything in an instant, as there were previously 18 universes and 6 were destroyed due to him being in a spoiled mood.
In the alternate timeline, Future Trunks and Future Mai are eating and resting, discussing about going back 17 years in the past, where Future Trunks' friends are, as he reminisces the events. They then make their way to Capsule Corporation, wary about their surroundings. A giant vortex is in the sky, and Future Trunks tells Future Mai to go on ahead as he draws his sword. Future Trunks engages in battle, but is defeated. Future Mai gives Future Trunks the fuel and she offers to be the decoy, as Future Trunks needs to survive. Future Mai is hit with a Ki Blast, seemingly killing her. An angered Future Trunks then glares at the enemy, Black, who tells Future Trunks that today is the day he will take his final breath…."Toriyama providing an idea, or even a very rough outline, is very very different from him actually writing the story, dictating the pacing, comedy, twists, and character work or doing heavy editorial to get his personal touch in there.
Caulifla is Toriyama's design.
And no, they don't need to advertise them that much, in fact, Zamasu and Black are 100% Toriyama's, yet this fact was never really a point of attention.
Again, same thing. There is a big difference between him actually designing a character, and taking a quick final pass at something someone else put in front of him. Where is the style feeling consistent with his previous 40 years of work? What design in his entire body of work has black hair coming from the scalp that looks like that ragged edge prior to that drawing, rather than a smooth line? For that matter how often does he do black hair that absolutely needs highlights in it to be a comprehensible design?
They started with Broly, worked backwards on some girl designs, and then he took a a quick clean up pass. He did not on his own come up with that pants style different from any pants he's ever drawn or hair that would lead to that specific Broli look.
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Thank god its ending.
If they ever wanna bring dbz back again just make it shorter seasons with better animation and scripts please.
LOL better animation is one thing better writing is s whole different ballgame.
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This post is deleted!
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I'm just telling you what they're saying. Just wanted to correct that they are saying it is Toriyama's.
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Hasn’t Toriyama changed his artstyle like 5 times since the end of the original Dragon Ball run?
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all you really gotta do is read/look at jaco to get a sense for Toriyama's current artstyle
everything is basically just noodles -
Hasn’t Toriyama changed his artstyle like 5 times since the end of the original Dragon Ball run?
Yes, he's changed the quality of his line, or how much detail he uses, orhow he does muscle shapes and and how angular things get and how he colors things. That sort of thing is naturally going to change over time.
But he hasn't changed his design sense of the last 40 years. He's reeeeeeally consistent in clothing styles and haircuts.
He's not going to switch from always having a clean swoop of lines for hair to suddenly having a cluster, or do a style of clothes he never used in thousands of designs for Dr. Slump, Dragonball, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger, on one drawing, without getting it from somewhere else first. He's not going to design a god of destruction full of wrinkles or dangly bits, and he's not going to create a movie villain that looks like swamp thing on his own.
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It is fun to see that while the Western audience (the people who always seem to be bitching the most about the series) grew up and out of Dragon Ball and experienced series, both Anime and not that had VASTLY better storytelling and character development, think that when Super comes out, it has magically grown to meet the standards of what western fans have today.
Dragon Ball was never "deep" or "meaningful" It was a comic book about a monkey boy who eventually turned into a blonde superman and punches people. Great moments, memorable ones for sure, but we aren't talking Shakespeare here.
Kylo Ren was right when he said "Let the past die" I honestly think it holds a lot of fans back, especially in the west.
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Yes, he's changed the quality of his line, or how much detail he uses, orhow he does muscle shapes and and how angular things get and how he colors things. That sort of thing is naturally going to change over time.
But he hasn't changed his design sense of the last 40 years. He's reeeeeeally consistent in clothing styles and haircuts.
He's not going to switch from always having a clean swoop of lines for hair to suddenly having a cluster, or do a style of clothes he never used in thousands of designs for Dr. Slump, Dragonball, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger, on one drawing, without getting it from somewhere else first. He's not going to design a god of destruction full of wrinkles or dangly bits, and he's not going to create a movie villain that looks like swamp thing on his own.
I think with the wrinkly God it was stated that Toyo designed him (as well as the other three non-participating Gods).
As for Caulifla's clothing, Bulma did wear a tube top during the Red Ribbon arc:
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Kylo Ren was right when he said "Let the past die" I honestly think it holds a lot of fans back, especially in the west.
Hold them back how?
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Caulifla's hair is totally something Toriyama's done before
just look at lavos, basically the same shape -
Bulma did wear a tube top during the Red Ribbon arc:
[qimg]http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/1/12541/640339-db_goku_bulmatest3.png[/qimg]
When I think "tube top" I'm thinking of the thing that also shows a lot of belly, basically a bra. That's a strapless low cut top.
If the definitions overlap and that's also called a tube top, okay, but not what I'm referring to when I use the term.
She also wore something like that during the Saiayan saga but she had a jacket to go with it. And Merle in Chrono Trigger. And Bianca and Jessica from Dragon Quest 4 and 8. NOT what I'm talking about.
And again, he's never, as far as I can think, had baggy pants continue to bell out. He almost always cuts them off mid calf and goes into shoes. Even Piccollo and Teen Gohan where it does go all the way to the feet it doesn't keep flaring at the bottom. I can't think of any examples of him going for a hakama style leg.
It's just multiple different design elements that Toriyama has never used. If it was just one thing it'd be mixing it up or being inspired, but the top, the pants, and the hair? Not so much. Someone else did a design and he did a quick pass over it.
ESPECIALLY on the Broli girls which almost certainly started at the muscle stage and then were worked backward to their unpowered forms.
I think with the wrinkly God it was stated that Toyo designed him (as well as the other three non-participating Gods).
That's exactly my point. You can look at the wrinkly thing and tell "Toriyama didn't design that." Just instinctively you look at it and you know it doesn't have his design sensibilities.
Same with this, its just a little harder because "cute girl" is harder to tell the difference since they all come out kind of the same in his style than "unusual monster". But neither the hair or the clothes are in his usual wheelhouse.
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Funnily enough Bulma has the most hair changes by far.
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If we're supposed to let the past die, then why is DBS relying on said past so heavily at basically every opportunity given?
Guess it's ironic that, despite me being annoyed from the abundance of callbacks, I'm actually rooting for Frieza right now, as he is my final grasp of hope in order for something remotely interesting of consequence to come out of this overly dull tournament.
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! Gohan is out. The dream is over.
! Dyspo is out as well. -
! Well at least Gohan did better than his little exhibition match. Too bad he'll always be teased by Toei…..
! so yeah, 17 is definitely gonna be knocked out next. Then either Toppo or Vegeta (place your bets), then the other, then the Jiren vs. Goku match. -
That episode was 100% trash.
Agree with everything Robby and ARTEMIS have been saying for months now.
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I actually really liked Gohan's showing. It's just the right balance. He's not instantly perfect and super strong after two days of training, but still confident and smart.
My favorite part was him telling Freeza he'll knock him out himself if he causes trouble. Gohan can be badass without rage boosts and completely snapping.They decided to leave him room to grow, rather than hand out something new that has very little basis of happening. That's good writing! Also one of the plot threads that tells me DB isn't going away anime-wise.
Gohan did better than Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and 18 because he left through his own plan and it felt natural.Everything else kinda sucked. Most of the first half was reused animation and very uninteresting action.
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I actually really liked Gohan's showing. It's just the right balance. He's not instantly perfect and super strong after two days of training, but still confident and smart.
My favorite part was him telling Freeza he'll knock him out himself if he causes trouble. Gohan can be badass without rage boosts and completely snapping.They decided to leave him room to grow, rather than hand out something new that has very little basis of happening. That's good writing! Also one of the plot threads that tells me DB isn't going away anime-wise.
Gohan did better than Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and 18 because he left through his own plan and it felt natural.Everything else kinda sucked. Most of the first half was reused animation and very uninteresting action.
Gohan was (mostly) great in the rest of the tournament. But showing up at the tail end of his own focus episode to get knocked out in the lamest sacrifice possible is some bullshit (even #17's failed sacrifice from last episode looked way better. They didn't even bother animating this one!). There's also no real pay-off to either his leading U7 or finding a new form of his own (RIP Blanco 2017-2018)
Meawhile, Vegeta who's done fuck all this tournament except regress back to Cell arc personality once again ends up in the spotlight and does get a new dumb powerup. Hey remember when his daughter was born and he almost refused to even participate because of her? Would be great if that became relevant again.
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I'd rather look at the actual content that I got than for how long he was there. Quality over quantity.
That's the most annoying part with DB discussion I see.
In terms of character content, I think this was good. They kept to Gohan's set up character stuff, which matters to me. The leader setup doesn't bother me because of that and I think animation is a lot less important than writing.
Gohan was made to look good because he was smart and confident as his own character. This made it good for me.
Unfortunately everything else about the episode before the last third sucked. There's literally nothing of substance to talk about. Freeza's cage thing and Gohan stepping in saved the episode because it was actually interesting and good.
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I thought this week episode of Super was really great. I'm not the biggest fan of Gohan, but I thought he had a really good showing in the episode. Freeza continues to be one of the highlight of this arc. I did like that relied on his power up and that his and Dyspo fight reminds a lot of the Yusuke vs. Chuu fight from Yu Yu Hakusho.
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he almost refused to even participate because of her? Would be great if that became relevant again.
I mentioned this last week, how the form needed less "argh I am the prince of all Saiyans" and more family considering.
….darn, now I'm thinking about Hiromi Tsuru :(
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It'll probably be saved for when he gets pushed into Ultra Instinct.
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I mentioned this last week, how the form needed less "argh I am the prince of all Saiyans" and more family considering.
….darn, now I'm thinking about Hiromi Tsuru :(
And it would be a great callback (that isn't just for fanservice) to Z where he wrongfully thought having a family to protect is what made Goku strong. But then there'd be this really cool moment where protecting his family DID make Vegeta stronger!
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I actually do think most of the callbacks Super does do make sense in context. Just talking about the ToP here. RoF is like the most obvious "there for no reason" thing. Freeza being in the ToP actually does have basis.
I think Kale having Broly's form is probably the only really "this is just kinda there" thing.
Like, Krillin's stinky shoe, the reference to the invisible man, Goku using Kaioken 20x (it makes sense against Hit's adaptability, too) and Genki Dama on Jiren all make sense considering the opponents they're facing. Final Flash, too. Jiren is meant to be a really tough opponent. To show that, the characters have to show everything they've got. In general Goku using afterimage and all of the variety of techniques he has makes sense. He is supposed to be a master martial artist.
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I still wonder if Vegeta and Goku will fuse as a last option. They have different, let's call it, upgrades now. Are kawaii form and Kaiyoken compatible/comparable?
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I actually do think most of the callbacks Super does do make sense in context. Just talking about the ToP here. RoF is like the most obvious "there for no reason" thing. Freeza being in the ToP actually does have basis.
I think Kale having Broly's form is probably the only really "this is just kinda there" thing.
Like, Krillin's stinky shoe, the reference to the invisible man, Goku using Kaioken 20x (it makes sense against Hit's adaptability, too) and Genki Dama on Jiren all make sense considering the opponents they're facing. Final Flash, too. Jiren is meant to be a really tough opponent. To show that, the characters have to show everything they've got. In general Goku using afterimage and all of the variety of techniques he has makes sense. He is supposed to be a master martial artist.
The problem isn't with any single instance, but with the image that emerges when you combine them, they're too reliant on call-backs and what was established previously. Kaiokenx20 is fine. Genki-dama is fine. New form is fine. Freeza giving Goku his energy and repaying his debt is fine. All of these in succession? Not so fine anymore.
And my biggest complaint, Kame-sennin is 300 years old master martial artist and throughout the whole ToP he uses only the techniques he used against Goku, plius Mafuba, nothing new, nothing creative, just nothing. Or Jimeze, when Goku first arrived on earth he said that Yardats have lots of strange tecniques, but he only had the time to learn IT. Then actual Yardat appears and… he only spams IT! Tenshinhan was also creative warrior with lots of tricks up his sleeves who never stopped training and he... somehow didn't come up with anything else for half his life?
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The "never learning new techniques" problem goes for the previous series, too. Always bothered me so thanks for pointing it out. Tenshinhan always only uses his Kikoho. Krillin only ever has his Destructo Disc. Lots of Kamehameha spam.
At least the ToP tried to put a new spin on some old stuff like the Disc and stronger Solar Flare. It also actually did introduce a series of new techniques, which hasn't happened in forever.
Goku using Ki to make a shield around him, the minefield technique and the new Destructo Disc attack are all new. Ultra Instinct is a very different form from any other Goku has gotten. Even the Kamehameha against Kefla tried something new with the technique.
I mean if it bothers you no matter what, nothing to do here, but I'm okay with it if it at least makes sense in context. If it's used because of a legitimate reason. The Mafuba in the FT arc made sense to me, too. It wasn't only there for a callback. There were other reasons for it to be used.
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[QUOTE=Kizuchan;3858437
Goku using Ki to make a shield around him, the minefield technique and the new Destructo Disc attack are all new. Ultra Instinct is a very different form from any other Goku has gotten. Even the Kamehameha against Kefla tried something new with the technique. I think he also used a foot beam at some point, that never happened before right?The only technique that is overused in Super that I don't really like is the energy ball spam.