I would, but I don't want anyone on this site knowing I read One Piece, that'd be weird what am I a weeb.
( `ー´) .
I would, but I don't want anyone on this site knowing I read One Piece, that'd be weird what am I a weeb.
( `ー´) .
The main problem of the whole arc is that the heroes ended up facing opponents that were way too strong for them. All the flaws we can point out are a direct consequence of this.
It would have been so much simpler – and I'm not implying I would have done it better than the author -- to make this a shorter, infiltration arc. You could keep cool ideas like the Seducing Woods, but not make Luffy face Cracker. You could keep Pudding and her twist, but not make her switch back again and make her fly across the sea to prepare a cake.
I think this was fine, actually. It shows us that there are still obstacles for Luffy to face. It shows us he is stronger, yet still not strong enough. (Meaning, not OP) This also fits in line with Luffy's personality. I wouldn't have it any other way. (In fact, I think the plan was for a sneakier infiltration, I don't remember)
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The people whining about cooking should go check out Shokugeki no Soma.
Shokugeki no Soma is awesome, by the way. Everyone should check it out. It has interesting conflict and good character development, I would say.
The people whining about cooking should go check out Shokugeki no Soma.
Also Pudding is a delight.
I expect something more along the lines of Toriko occurring if the cooking process is an action sequence similar to what Greg is predicting. Which would kind of make sense since Oda is good friends with Toriko's author, Shimabukuro…
In Toriko, Komatsu cooks on his side whereas Toriko is fighting on his own. If it's similar, we would have Sanji cooking whereas other Mugiwara fighting BM.
So no Sanji fighting and cooking at the same time…
@Count:
I expect something more along the lines of Toriko occurring if the cooking process is an action sequence similar to what Greg is predicting. Which would kind of make sense since Oda is good friends with Toriko's author, Shimabukuro…
Based on the plan so far, there is no real battle with cooking ingrédients necessary.
Based on the plan so far, there is no real battle with cooking ingrédients necessary.
And the one thing that becomes more abundantly clear as One Piece goes on, is that if a plan is spelled out ahead of time, it's not going to go exactly as planned.
I could easily see them either having a confrontation with the Big Mom Pirates chasing Capone if he ends up following after Chifon to back up his wife. Some of the ingredients may be ruined.
And there is always the possibility they don't even get to the ingredients period, and Sanji is stuck having to make due with the Pirates at his disposal.
You do realise everyone was defeated and due the plot device planted since fishman island they were able to start to escape.?
Where is this fodder?
Defeated? I didn't see a scratch on any of the SH during the wedding ceremony. They were chilling around pretty good IMO. Yes they were assisted by 4 Germa dudes but that shouldn't have been enough to stop A FULL FORCE YONKO CREW to at least crush some of the strawhats. After the explosion we see MAMA who is a freaking YONKO running around after some average crew who she thought would not stand a chance against her, she looks like a wild animal and nothing more! Not being able to catch or at the very least seriously threat/hurt any of the strawhats with any of her attacks makes her look so lame!
FFS I could write you a full list of previous weaker enemies that have hurt/threatened/endangered/ or at least gave M.D.Luffy a freaking kick at the very least, and looked way more dangerous than a friggin YONKO that has been hyped for decades!!!!
FUCK Monet during punk hazard was a more threatening enemy.
This arc is just making me Laugh my ass off, nothing else.
@Master:
Defeated? I didn't see a scratch on any of the SH during the wedding ceremony. They were chilling around pretty good IMO. Yes they were assisted by 4 Germa dudes but that shouldn't have been enough to stop A FULL FORCE YONKO CREW to at least crush some of the strawhats. After the explosion we see MAMA who is a freaking YONKO running around after some average crew who she thought would not stand a chance against her, she looks like a wild animal and nothing more! Not being able to catch or at the very least seriously threat/hurt any of the strawhats with any of her attacks makes her look so lame!
FFS I could write you a full list of previous weaker enemies that have hurt/threatened/endangered/ or at least gave M.D.Luffy a freaking kick at the very least, and looked way more dangerous than a friggin YONKO that has been hyped for decades!!!!
FUCK Monet during punk hazard was a more threatening enemy.
This arc is just making me Laugh my ass off, nothing else.
Were you speedreading? Because I'm sure the Strawhats + Germa were caught in chapter 871. Luffy was also caught by Big Mom's crew back when she sent the enraged army, I know he was tired but when was that a problem, being tired didn't stop Luffy from defeating Doflamingo, Crocodile, and didn't stop him during the war.
Please read the manga chapters slowly from now on.
Luffy was also caught by Big Mom's crew back when she sent the enraged army, I know he was tired but when was that a problem, being tired didn't stop Luffy from defeating Doflamingo, Crocodile, and didn't stop him during the war.
Doffly was also badly hurt/tired like Luffy and as for the war did some doping both before and during the war to ignore his fatigue.
Were you speedreading? Because I'm sure the Strawhats + Germa were caught in chapter 871. Luffy was also caught by Big Mom's crew back when she sent the enraged army, I know he was tired but when was that a problem, being tired didn't stop Luffy from defeating Doflamingo, Crocodile, and didn't stop him during the war.
Please read the manga chapters slowly from now on.
Guys getting butthurt over other people's opinions are the worst.
I don't feel as strongly as Master Luffy, but BMPs haven't exactly provided a stellar performance. Perhaps Oda wants to emphasize how they became lazy and stopped progressing in their position of power, but he could have done a better job.
Doffly was also badly hurt/tired like Luffy and as for the war did some doping both before and during the war to ignore his fatigue.
I know that very well. But you should consider that Nami + the vivre card were helping him, but that didn't stop them from getting captured.
Also, Luffy also got huge aid during this arc, and some extreme luck (without the Tamatebako everyone would have been caught again). So what makes Big Mom less intimidating this time in the eyes of Master Luffy this time?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Guys getting butthurt over other people's opinions are the worst.
I don't feel as strongly as Master Luffy, but BMPs haven't exactly provided a stellar performance. Perhaps Oda wants to emphasize how they became lazy and stopped progressing in their position of power, but he could have done a better job.
I'm not butthurt over other people's opinion. I just find it weird that he said, and I quote here
@Master:
Defeated? I didn't see a scratch on any of the SH during the wedding ceremony.*
when they were clearly defeated in chapter 871
I find it really weird, that of all the bad stuff that came from One Piece since the time skip, this is the arc and chapter that get called out by so many people. And not for the -at least to me- obviously "bad" elements (Strawhats almost completely undistinguishable from other side charachters, and the COSTANT FUCKING ENDLESS RUNNING WHILE EXPOSING that has been going on non-stop since marineford, just to name two), but for stuff honestly fresh and fun like sanji baking a cake to actually save everybody's life instead of throwing flaming kicks around, and general surreal plot developments which made a good deal of the early charm of the series.
Also Pudding: the tsundere jokes are really lame, allways have allways will be, but the twist to the trope of it being due to Pudding not being able to control her acting aymore is clever and funny on its own. The reason of her infatuation with Sanji on the other hand is still terrible, but that did contribute to ruin another actually terrible arc which was the wedding. It's in the past, writtend in the stone, let's move on.
The problem with katakuri and the obnoxious toungue guy being idle while their fodder soldiers are decimated by pro-jobbers chopper and brook is the one critic I agree most, mainly because it flashes out a problem that plagues OP since the introductions of both Haki and the notion of "guys incredibly strong just or the sake of it" in the story, which completely ruined the battles in this battle manga, but has been there for quite a long time now: Oda is forced to keep some sort of narrative hand-brake pulled in order to keep coherence with the powerlevel scale he created, thus avoiding some conflicts instead of cleverly resolving them like he once did.
Other than that, we have Nami, of all peope, being useful for more than fanservice the first time in ages, we should appreciate more small things like that to get why these chapters aren't actually all that bad… for post-TS OP standards at least.
I believe this accentuates the thread.
@Neo:
I think this was fine, actually. It shows us that there are still obstacles for Luffy to face. It shows us he is stronger, yet still not strong enough. (Meaning, not OP) This also fits in line with Luffy's personality. I wouldn't have it any other way. (In fact, I think the plan was for a sneakier infiltration, I don't remember)
I strongly believe that Big Mom's power and the gap between her strength and Luffy's could have been portrayed without having to unleash a direct confrontation. Instead, Big Mom's crew has been forced to look weaker than, perhaps, they should be, as an Emperor's crew, for the sole purpose of having the Straw Hats to survive.
http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/EatWisconsinCheese/media/content/hero%20images/hero-cheese.png
I believe this accentuates the thread.
Damn, that is so cheesy.
http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/EatWisconsinCheese/media/content/hero%20images/hero-cheese.png
I believe this accentuates the thread.
There's some tasty grapes around.
it's not like it's the one girl that manages to lock him up..the guy had a quasi-relationship with viola just last arc…
Man was that really last arc, seems like FOREVER since we saw Viola.
My contribution to the 2017 AP Whine and Cheese Festival.
My contribution to the 2017 AP Whine and Cheese Festival.
People have the right to point out what goes wrong.
My contribution to the 2017 AP Whine and Cheese Festival.
Greg honestly it makes no sense but there are a ton of people that hate the cake twist because once you said it they started looking for it, and apparently they think OP is super unpredictable and if they can expect something it's terrible. To much emphasis on the "ughhhh but I saw it coming" take.
It shouldnt but I think if it wasnt mentioned, it would be more accepted by some of these people
Others just want sanji to bruce lee through big mom's army
People have the right to point out what goes wrong.
And people have the right to think they are wrong, and what they think is wrong, isn't.
Maybe people who have so much inside info or the ability to discuss matters with people directly involved in the making of this great manga series could consider refraining from posting theories/predictions regarding future developments or their specifics, to prevent possible spoilers for other forum goers. Or at least, mention "possible spoilers" somewhere along the lines of their threads. Spoilers totally kill the enjoyment of an adventurous story like this, at least for me. That´s why I don´t read them. But I have no right to tell others what to do, I can only change my own approach and be more careful what I read.
Anyway, as I mentioned in the past chapter discussion, I dislike Sanji helping to make the cake because BM deserves to be punished, not satisfied. All her life she´s abused her ridiculous power to get what she desired and it sucks she gets to eat this cake, co-created by Sanji. There was a great opportunity for Chiffon to shine and be the main hero, considering her suffering under BM.
Oh well, I just wish that the decision to have Sanji go with Chiffon and that other person would´ve been more serious than just…oh I heard you could bake well -> yes I´m cool like that, I´ll join you.
After what they´ve been through so far this arc, what Sanji has done to Luffy and the others, I wish there was at least a quick discussion / analysis among the crew regarding their current situation and their best course of action to take. It didn´t help to bring across the motivation behind the cake that they just stood there looking at a hole instead of getting away from BM.
Because so far, they have been succesful in running away. There is no reason for them to go "oh shit, we´re doomed and have zero chance to get away if her tantrum doesn´t stop, that cake is top priority"...OK then, it´s decided, Sanji will help out Chiffon, we continue getting the hell out of here.
The whole scene simply felt awkward and underwhelming to me. Too calm considering they should be at highest alert level = impending death right behind them.
Later the bit with Chiffon asking if his friend will be fine. Why didn´t he say something like "I fully trust them!" instead of that half-assed semi-autistic response of his like he didn´t care as much.
Right afterwards, he made that ridiculous proclamation in the last panel, which still feels out of place and like a troll attempt though. Hard to get over that one yet :)
So yeah, OK the cake is reality, I´ll get over it, but I still have issues regarding the "how".
Maybe people who have so much inside info or the ability to discuss matters with people directly involved in the making of this great manga series could consider refraining from posting theories/predictions regarding future developments or their specifics, to prevent possible spoilers for other forum goers. Or at least, mention "possible spoilers" somewhere along the lines of their threads. Spoilers totally kill the enjoyment of an adventurous story like this, at least for me. That´s why I don´t read them. But I have no right to tell others what to do, I can only change my own approach and be more careful what I read.
I agree, and I am sure many will understand who you are referring to.
Things that still need to be solved, with cake or no cake.
-BM finding out about mother carmel story.
-Does bm know what she is doing to her children in her rampage? If not, she needs to find out about that too.
Pound needs to show up and do… something, anything.
pudding 3 eye race story reveal if she has VOAT or not.
-Bm wrecks countries for ingredients, delivers pumpkins in your mail if you don't go to her parties, wrecks her children, steals years from her family and country.
bm needs to wake up from this 5 years old child behaviour and grow up since she is 70.
this cake solves her problem only for the moment so they need to find a permanent solution.
pudding: stay or leave bm. Same for capone and co.
-germa nation: allies or not? Where do they go from here? do they still have time to make it to reverie? does wg know about their plans to allie with BM from CP0 Stussy?
And I'm sure I missed many things.
@Long:
Greg honestly it makes no sense but there are a ton of people that hate the cake twist because once you said it they started looking for it, and apparently they think OP is super unpredictable and if they can expect something it's terrible. To much emphasis on the "ughhhh but I saw it coming" take.
It shouldnt but I think if it wasnt mentioned, it would be more accepted by some of these people
Others just want sanji to bruce lee through big mom's army
From most of what I could read here, those who complains about the cake theory didn't like it because it was predictable but because they didn't like the scenario of a Mum forgiving the Strawhats thanks to a cake.
I don´t believe a person like BM can change or would want to change after living her whole life in an ego-centric way, abusing her power.
Usually, people like that start to blame others and are rarely able to acknowledge that something is wrong with them.
Like, isn´t that why even her children fear her and cover up the damage from her tantrums?
Because she can just pummel you into oblivion if you attempt to bring something up that she may perceive as criticism of her. Egomaniacs take everything personal.
Do you guys believe she even has something like a conscience? To me, she seems like an animal with some human traits, but more primal.
I like her characterization so far and I wish her all the best, like Impel Down :)
She has the conscience of a 5-year-old child.
Doflamingo isn't any different. His story is very similar with BM, both spoiled brats, then evil mentors raise them into the dark side. Yet doflamingo was send in prison and got beat up by luffy. So BM needs to pay too.
@Long:
Others just want sanji to bruce lee through big mom's army
At this point I'd be happy anyone bruce leed through anything.
At this point I'd be happy anyone bruce leed through anything.
Isn't Chopper technically bruce leeing it?
She has the conscience of a 5-year-old child.
That was in her flashback. She grew up since then
I find it really weird, that of all the bad stuff that came from One Piece since the time skip, this is the arc and chapter that get called out by so many people. And not for the -at least to me- obviously "bad" elements (Strawhats almost completely undistinguishable from other side charachters, and the COSTANT FUCKING ENDLESS RUNNING WHILE EXPOSING that has been going on non-stop since marineford, just to name two), but for stuff honestly fresh and fun like sanji baking a cake to actually save everybody's life instead of throwing flaming kicks around, and general surreal plot developments which made a good deal of the early charm of the series.
Also Pudding: the tsundere jokes are really lame, allways have allways will be, but the twist to the trope of it being due to Pudding not being able to control her acting aymore is clever and funny on its own. The reason of her infatuation with Sanji on the other hand is still terrible, but that did contribute to ruin another actually terrible arc which was the wedding. It's in the past, writtend in the stone, let's move on.
The problem with katakuri and the obnoxious toungue guy being idle while their fodder soldiers are decimated by pro-jobbers chopper and brook is the one critic I agree most, mainly because it flashes out a problem that plagues OP since the introductions of both Haki and the notion of "guys incredibly strong just or the sake of it" in the story, which completely ruined the battles in this battle manga, but has been there for quite a long time now: Oda is forced to keep some sort of narrative hand-brake pulled in order to keep coherence with the powerlevel scale he created, thus avoiding some conflicts instead of cleverly resolving them like he once did.
Other than that, we have Nami, of all peope, being useful for more than fanservice the first time in ages, we should appreciate more small things like that to get why these chapters aren't actually all that bad… for post-TS OP standards at least.
I agree with most of your sentiments vis a vis what works and doesn't in the arc; tighter focus, visual splendor, nice moments for underserved characters and occasional formula subverting are among its strengths.
But I also feel that the bolded part is a crucial point, that doesn't really get brought up here. I've been thinking about it myself for a while, and its hard to put into words, but it kinda feels like the Straw Hats themselves can get kinda lost in the storm of characters. Its no surprise given how big the casts have gotten, and the decreased time for character spotlighting fights. 875+ chapters in I wouldn't be surprised if Oda found it harder/les interesting to write stuff for the same 10 characters; Much easier and more fun to spend time with totally new ones, who can serve whatever function Oda needs- especially when Oda has a preference for character creation over story.
That was in her flashback. She grew up since then
Actually, no. Mentally she never grew up. Like here - when her little cute goldfish died:
@Daz:
I agree with most of your sentiments vis a vis what works and doesn't in the arc; tighter focus, visual splendor, nice moments for underserved characters and occasional formula subverting are among its strengths.
But I also feel that the bolded part is a crucial point, that doesn't really get brought up here. I've been thinking about it myself for a while, and its hard to put into words, but it kinda feels like the Straw Hats themselves can get kinda lost in the storm of characters. Its no surprise given how big the casts have gotten, and the decreased time for character spotlighting fights. 875+ chapters in I wouldn't be surprised if Oda found it harder/les interesting to write stuff for the same 10 characters; Much easier and more fun to spend time with totally new ones, who can serve whatever function Oda needs- especially when Oda has a preference for character creation over story.
This is what I feel Jinbe is suffering from right now. Which feels underwhelming after how many years we've waited for his joining arc. I know he was heavily centric to Fishman Island, but I still feel that the delay for him becoming a crewmate should feel as though it has memorable payoff than being no more major than, say, Brook has been in this arc.
I wonder - especially with Greg considering the existence of Yokai - if Oda wants to delay the formal joining of Jinbe and therefore the upcoming payoff until all Strawhats are present.
Maybe at the beginning of the Wano arc there's some subplot involving Jinbe which could perfectly harmonize with the race thematic. Maybe it will then be Jinbe, who can perfectly emphasize with the Yokai race, who then wins them for their upcoming battle against the Beast Pirates. And then they all do a little party where they finally celebrates Jinbe's joining properly as well.
I wonder - especially with Greg considering the existence of Yokai - if Oda wants to delay the formal joining of Jinbe and therefore the upcoming payoff until all Strawhats are present.
Maybe at the beginning of the Wano arc there's some subplot involving Jinbe which could perfectly harmonize with the race thematic. Maybe it will then be Jinbe, who can perfectly emphasize with the Yokai race, who then wins them for their upcoming battle against the Beast Pirates. And then they all do a little party where they finally celebrates Jinbe's joining properly as well.
That would make it all the more awkward for Sanji to not get one during Arlong Park.
The only thing I dislike about this chapter is that Chiffon says after she eats the cake you will be free to go. Like Big Mom will let them escape out of pure generosity. WTF ?! Mind you that might be a translation mistake or me reading too much into those words.
However Sanji ends the chapter saying that they will have to make her faint with the cake so I guess I don't have to worry.
The only thing I dislike about this chapter is that Chiffon says after she eats the cake you will be free to go. Like Big Mom will let them escape out of pure generosity. WTF ?! Mind you that might be a translation mistake or me reading too much into those words.
However Sanji ends the chapter saying that they will have to make her faint with the cake so I guess I don't have to worry.
There's also the possibility of Pudding using memory powers.
Are we expecting a surprise ally ? I trust that Luffy's group can take back the Sunny from Katakuri and Perospero. But doing it with Big Mom right behind them seems impossible.
I am gonna bet on the Sun pirates. I don't see how Pound could help in this situation.
I remember a few years ago feeling Jinbe was not interesting enough to be one of the SH. Now I think he would fit perfectly… not because I find him more interesting now, but because the SH as a whole seem like a pale version of what they used to be.
Honestly, what's with timeskips lowering the overall quality of shonen manga?
Are we expecting a surprise ally?
Don't know if we are, but I still think Linlin and Bonney share too many similarities to be just a coincidence.
Are we expecting a surprise ally ? I trust that Luffy's group can take back the Sunny from Katakuri and Perospero. But doing it with Big Mom right behind them seems impossible.
I am gonna bet on the Sun pirates. I don't see how Pound could help in this situation.
Vinsmokes throw themselves at her and hopefully all die cuss they suck.
Vinsmokes throw themselves at her and hopefully all die cuss they suck.
About that, where did these guys go?
The only thing I dislike about this chapter is that Chiffon says after she eats the cake you will be free to go. Like Big Mom will let them escape out of pure generosity. WTF ?! Mind you that might be a translation mistake or me reading too much into those words.
However Sanji ends the chapter saying that they will have to make her faint with the cake so I guess I don't have to worry.
In JB she says that if she gets her cake they are allowed to escape.
She doesn't says that BM will let her go by purpose.
http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/EatWisconsinCheese/media/content/hero%20images/hero-cheese.png
I believe this accentuates the thread.
Well, let's be honest, that obscure tomato in the corner is literally me. I'm practically invisible in these forums.:ninja:
I don´t believe a person like BM can change or would want to change after living her whole life in an ego-centric way, abusing her power.
Usually, people like that start to blame others and are rarely able to acknowledge that something is wrong with them.
Like, isn´t that why even her children fear her and cover up the damage from her tantrums?
Because she can just pummel you into oblivion if you attempt to bring something up that she may perceive as criticism of her. Egomaniacs take everything personal.Do you guys believe she even has something like a conscience? To me, she seems like an animal with some human traits, but more primal.
I like her characterization so far and I wish her all the best, like Impel Down :)
Which is why I thin it's important for her to hve eaten the children in her childhood. Knowing that she was responsible for her traumatic experience and how badly she hurt her first family in her selfish did could help her change. That's why the gruesome nature of eating your family is needed.
http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/EatWisconsinCheese/media/content/hero%20images/hero-cheese.png
I believe this accentuates the thread.
Have you gotten shit on twitter for being right?
@.access:
I remember a few years ago feeling Jinbe was not interesting enough to be one of the SH. Now I think he would fit perfectly… not because I find him more interesting now, but because the SH as a whole seem like a pale version of what they used to be.
Honestly, what's with timeskips lowering the overall quality of shonen manga?
Don't know if we are, but I still think Linlin and Bonney share too many similarities to be just a coincidence.
Is the timeskip really responsible for a quality drop? Or are people just looking for excuses for not liking the latest stuff that much? Seriously, I've seen people in this thread complain that Oda made Big Mom pirates too strong and thus had to make them incompetent to make it possible for the Straw Hats to survive, and other people complain that Oda made the BMP a joke and that the SHs haven't even been scratched this arc (despite them being captured and nearly killed twice; speaks volumes about the way people have been reading the series). I've seen people complain that arcs have been dragging and others saying that they haven't had enough time to properly develop. I've seen people criticise almost everything and its opposite. In the end, it's a matter of taste. Can you tell me in what regards this arc is worse than Thriller Bark? Because that, to me, was boring as hell. Brook was one of the few things I enjoyed in that arc back then. Meanwhile, Totto Land has given us many breaks from typical OP story conventions, twists every now and then, unpredictability, strong thematics, a great menacing but fun villain in Big Mom, character development for Sanji (whatever one thinks of it), badass Jinbe moments, badass Brook moments… I do think things have become stale since Big Mom's failed assassination, but it's been mostly a transition phase into the cake baking climax. If that is given proper focus and made to look great (and if we get a sea battle between the SHP and BMP, please, Oda!) I'll be very satisfied with this arc. I think the quality has been increasing progressively since the timeskip, and I expect great things from Wano as well. It's going to be the culmination of every development we've had for the past 7 years, a great catharsis against what seems to be the most threatening villain so far. And, after that, we'll probably be in the countdown to Raftel and the final war, with the beginning of the collapse of the status quo and all (Shichibukai disbanded, 1 emperor out, maybe Shanks as well, Mama a bit weakened after this arc). Honestly, the way the story is told and paced has changed greatly since Enies Lobby. But that was a really long time ago.
Also, can anyone tell me how long the current editor has been in charge? Because I feel like he may have something to do with how OP is written nowadays. It seems like he's constantly giving interviews and hyping stuff and maybe he tries to speed things up and stimulates all this corner cutting.