Yeah basically the problem isn't the premise more than how they used it. Of course we all were super excited about the suicide squad, but if you're going to use them, then you need them to actually do something that justifies their existence. Something covert black ops-shady where they need disposable assets and plausible deniability.
DC Movies Thread - Shazam saves the day
-
-
Unless you want soldier guy 1 to 7 doing that stuff.
It's not that I want them doing that stuff, it's that it makes every sense in this universe they've depicted to be doing this stuff.
Also I'm curious as to where the fuck Batman, the Flash, or Wonder Woman are during this. I understand the Squad going in first since Waller knew about the situation before the public. But considering the Joker was able to drive all the way to this city with his gang during this mayhem without Batman on his ass stretches my disbelief. Bruce was so distraught over Superman and Zod taking about buildings worth of people, but he can't be bothered to do anything about the Enchantress situation….despite him wanting to honor Superman by creating the JLA to prevent these things.
Like seriously. Barry has time to stop the boomerang wielding bank robber, but can't be bothered when a monster destroys a train full of people in a subway?
-
The thing with batman, flash or wonder woman not showing up is really a big problem and exactly the reason why you dont make another flashy thing shoots into the sky, and an evil army of things roaming the city street plot. Suicide squad should have done a covert mission, where batman and co. wouldn't have the need to show up, cause they wouldn't know about that mission going on. But having something this big and public happening in midway city, and not even for batman to show up there is just stupid.
Script is just a total not thought through mess.
-
Also maybe not build up hype for Meta Humans and only have 2 actually on the team. It still bugs me that the 3rd one Waller gets is the villain in this movie. So we've got two actual meta humans and they don't really show case them. The focus was mostly Harley and Deadshot, neither of which are meta. Deadshot I would say is more skilled for a task team. But they didn't have him do trick shots. He was just accurate…Harley could have easily been replaced by any well trained solider or mercenary.
They needed to have the plot not revolve around Waller's mistake. Honestly. How is she supposed to keep her job after this?
-
They needed to have the plot not revolve around Waller's mistake. Honestly. How is she supposed to keep her job after this?
The power of plot.
-
Hey Everyone! Superman is coming back to the DCEU- And he's bringing his most joyous, vibrant costume with him!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI-eYSgRR8/
The question is: Will he have a mullet?
-
…........having some weird flashbacks to Spider-Man's symbiote costume from the Spider-Man 3.
-
@Daz:
Hey Everyone! Superman is coming back to the DCEU- And he's bringing his most joyous, vibrant costume with him!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI-eYSgRR8/
The question is: Will he have a mullet?
Real question: how long will his mullet be?
-
Comic Waller would have killed herself before being the gaping security hole that brings down the US armies.
Why a goddess wanted the thugs to serve her willingly?
Why Diablo tougth that these people who he shared one helicopter flight, one city trip and one drink were worth dying for?
Why didn't superman show up for the giant thunder tornado that was in the middle of america 3 days? The media blackout would have been incredibly suspicious and just a fly by would have revealed the issue.
-
Aren't they all in jail under life sentences? What the fuck is ten years off that going to do.
Captain Boomerang was right, this is a shit boxed crook scenario.
-
@Cyan:
Aren't they all in jail under life sentences? What the fuck is ten years off that going to do.
Captain Boomerang was right, this is a shit boxed crook scenario.
To be fair, did you honestly think that Waller would want to put together the Suicide Squad without wanting to have the team around for at least several missions rather than just one or two threats?
-
I just saw the Suicide Squad and while I thought it was definitely a trainwreck, it did have some good aspects. I feel like most of the stuff I didn't like was addressed already in the thread, although I will add that while the SS never getting enough time to bond was weird, my bigger problem was that outside of Deadshot and Harley none of members felt interesting or even recognizable. Colonel Flagg felt like a random black ops member who got promoted, Boomerang had like three lines, Croc was there so Harley wouldn't have the highest one liner to actual dialogue ratio, and Katana had 2 lines. Diablo was the only other one to get halfway characterized, but it still didn't feel like we got to know him because the pacing was so bad and he was quiet the first half of the movie.
But I would like to talk about the good stuff because I feel there were some good moments in the movie scattered about. Harley was the best part of the movie imo, even with her annoying amount of not funny jokes. I feel like Margot Robbie did a great job making her unhinged but not actually crazy. She also had the only other emotional scene besides Diablo's story. At the start of the final battle when Enchantress gave them all happy dreams, seeing that her deepest desire was basically to cure the Joker and settle down was really sweet.
Deadshot was cool although he too was handicapped by some awful dialogue. This was basically Will being Will, so it wasn't hard to find him likeable. Also it's good to know Will didn't forget all that training he had from Ali haha. The only moment in the movie where I was legitimately hype was when they had the fight in the street and Deadshot went into slayer mode on top of the car against the pebble monsters. That moment when the other soldiers slowly stop firing and just watch in awe as he lays waste to everything was bada**. Then an f you "That's how I cut and run" to Flagg and the magic is over.
This Joker was actually interesting to me, and I might be in the minority but I would love to see him again in a bigger role. He was definitely hit or miss, but there were scenes like his one with Common where he just nailed it. I don't have a huge problem with his tattoos or grills, although that purr he would make made me laugh a few times. A version of Joker that actually cares about Harley for whatever reason would create cool dynamics, especially with how competent and strong she was in the movie. It makes them seem like a power couple instead of her being his minion. I think throwing this Joker and Harley into a movie that has Deadshot and Batman would be the makings of a really great super hero movie.
-
@Daz:
Hey Everyone! Superman is coming back to the DCEU- And he's bringing his most joyous, vibrant costume with him!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI-eYSgRR8/
The question is: Will he have a mullet?
Oh man, you thought his previous suit was dark and edgy, get ready for his edge lord reaper costume. Ugh yeah. xD
At this point I just hope he isnt the villain for the movie, and if not, despite the costume, actually becomes a light fun character.
-
-
@Daz:
Hey Everyone! Superman is coming back to the DCEU- And he's bringing his most joyous, vibrant costume with him!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI-eYSgRR8/
The question is: Will he have a mullet?
…
...
...
...This is a Superman costume?!
-
Oh man, you thought his previous suit was dark and edgy, get ready for his edge lord reaper costume. Ugh yeah. xD
At this point I just hope he isnt the villain for the movie, and if not, despite the costume, actually becomes a light fun character.
They'd be super hosed if he was the villain at this point. They don't have anyone who contend with him. Can Wonder Woman even fly in the DCMU? It would be a massive stretch to take him down without some wonky writing.
-
Oh man, you thought his previous suit was dark and edgy, get ready for his edge lord reaper costume. Ugh yeah. xD
At this point I just hope he isnt the villain for the movie, and if not, despite the costume, actually becomes a light fun character.
On the one hand, I could totally see Zack Snyder wheeling in some sort of Injustice/Justice lords/Darkseid Pawn Superman as the JL part 1 antagonist.
On the other, WB surely must've woken to the fact that BroodyMan isn't met with universal acclaim, and the dark suit could just be a Return of Superman reference.
-
-
Those plated toes are adorable and I want them in the movie.
Reading about Black-Costume Mullet Superman he doesn't seem to be nearly as dark/edgy as he looks, I just have trouble picturing a more hopeful, upbeat Supes when Zack Snyder has him in a pitch black outfit.
-
I hope its just a reference. And you are right Daz, by now everybody sure must have hammered in the notion that we dont want this brooding emo superman.^^
Btw, is there a reason why the suit changes only because supes was in a coma?
@Daz:
I just have trouble picturing a more hopeful, upbeat Supes when Zack Snyder has him in a pitch black outfit.
Maybe, just maybe, we will actually get a real smile from him this time. Omg, maybe even two. xD
-
Zach Snyder hates colorful costumes.
-
I like how they just spoiled Superman coming back. :ninja:
-
[qimg]https://grizzlybomb.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/superman-black-suit.jpeg[/qimg]
Those colors look hideous.
-
Oh, superman is currently death, that's why he didn't go to that city.
-
Those colors look hideous.
You mean the copious amount of black that would drive Kubo wild?
-
If they had Batman return to his 60's camp style and put him in Justice League with emo Superman that'd be something I'd pay to watch
-
I can't wait for the return of Superman Red and Superman Blue.
-
I don't know what's with all the suicide squad hate. Watched the movie and katana for example had plenty of scenes and lines and there is even an extended scene with joker, harley and batman interacting together…
! Oh wait, it was the suicide squad xxx parody, may bad. :ninja:
-
Btw, the movie tells us that Harley Quin had some part in killing Robin. But don't we see her having a conversation with the Joker in Arkham, where she still is just Dr. Harleen Quinzell and the Joker already has the damaged tatoo and the grill teeth, meaning batman beat the crap out of him in that supposed scene Ayer mentioned, after Robins death? How would Harley been part of it, if she didnt turn into Harley Quin yet and probably didn't even meet the Joker till he was in Arkham?
Just another case of no attention to detail?
-
I was just going though Reddit and superman's death was brought up and it got me thinking.
They wrote themselves into a corner with big blue's death. It took way to much to kill him for not enough payoff. Yes he the man of steel, but they went way overboard. He took everything bats could throw at him, green rock radiation, a beating from doomsday, a nuke, and finally more green rock. But after all that he got thrown in a casket and was clearly on his way back in by the funeral.
In the comics he was pushed past his physical limits, got the most advanced medical care and yellow sun radiation and it seems like he was gone for good long time before he came back underpowered.
After all that how can we ever think he in danger? What going delay him long enough for the league to get some action?
-
It's not even just that, but the fact that Superman's character development didn't properly payoff into that death because the public still hated him. Realistically, they should still be more likely to spit on his grave than feel indebted to him akin to how the comic version grew to be an iconic martyr after years of judgement, struggles, triumphs, and inspiration regardless of if he gave his life to stop Doomsday.
-
Could've had Man Of Steel 2 deal with that then save Superman's death for a later film but nope.
-
Could've had Man Of Steel 2 deal with that then save Superman's death for a later film but nope.
Or better yet. Not kill him in the films.
-
..Superman's new costume looks like it's made out of Kryptonian manhole covers. :/
-
Or better yet. Not kill him in the films.
Gotta work that Death Of Superman and Doomsday in there somehow. Even if DC's animation branch already handled it…..lazily.
-
@Count:
It's not even just that, but the fact that Superman's character development didn't properly payoff into that death because the public still hated him. Realistically, they should still be more likely to spit on his grave than feel indebted to him akin to how the comic version grew to be an iconic martyr after years of judgement, struggles, triumphs, and inspiration regardless of if he gave his life to stop Doomsday.
To that point, both of the movie villains have direct connections and appear on Earth because of him. It's very difficult to win the heart of the public when you're defending then from something that's there because of you. A better sequel would have Superman defending Metropolis and Earth from independent threats, or ones arising from Earth's own society, hubris, actions, etc. Then a third movie could have Doomsday, when the city is already squarely behind him.
As is, Snyder-man leans more towards the "hero attracts the villains" trope, which would be fine if the more important "hero acts as a stabilizing force" trope were better established in the movies. As is, Supes shoukd seem more trouble than he's worth to the average citizen.
-
Watched assault on arkham again yesterday and man is the movie better than the live action one in every way. Fights alone trump any fight secene the live action movie. Team members get to do more, and their interactions are also much better, cause they talk with each other alot more, instead of standing silently in the background.
Mission as well was obviously more suited for them than fighting enchantress. WB had the perfect outline for the story thereand if Ayer had only 6 weeks to write the script he should have just adapted the animated movie with some changes.
P.S the villains in the animated movie were fun to watch even though they were killing innocent ppl, so the whole we need to make them not seem as bad argument for the live action movie is so dumb. WB should have had the balls to actually portray them as who they are.
-
Yeah I have no idea why they pulled out the Supes is dead card so damn soon, then proceed to go "wink wink he's gonna be okay" :)
It would've been more impactful if the JL was already established in the DCU, and like people above have said, Superman would have more time to win the people of Earth over.
-
Cause Snyder thought it woukd be kewl to include the iconic superman death in his movie I guess.
-
Looks like Superman will finally have the curl: https://www.instagram.com/p/BJOEXKpA8CK/
-
Is it from the justice league set though?
-
Just saw the movie and I'm in the group that thinks it has its fair share of problems, but does not deserve this much hate and is overall enjoyable and fun. The criticisms are all valid, but they didn't destroy the movie or made it a trainwreck in my eyes. I think it could have really benefitted from being ten to fifteen minutes longer in order to establish the secondary characters better and to make the overall plot feel more understandable and logical. Some more screentime for June's and Rick Flaggs relationship so you care a little more about them and of course, more screentime for Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc and Katana, who all feel interesting enough that you get a little frustrated that they aren't featured and explored more thoroughly. Harley Quinn, Deadshot and Amanda Waller are all pretty good and Diablo as well, surprisingly. I wanted to see more of the Joker, too. I thought it was a pretty interesting interpretation. And I agree that it would have been better to have the Squad on a mission more fit to their skills. So yeah, I'm not dismissing any of the criticisms, it's not nearly as great as the trailers made it look, but it was a fun little popcorn flick. 7/10 sounds about right, maybe even 7.5/10
-
I maybe could have looked past the glaring problems if the actual action was good, instead of being same gemeric shoot em up schlock throughout the whole movie without utilizing the abilities of the squad to its full potential. But the end fight would have been a mess anyway considering who the squad went up against and the performance of that villain. Ugh.
The movie as is is just utterly boring. It's not as horribly bad as critics make it out to be, but it's nowhere near good either, just constantly bland. And I rather have a so terrible movie itis good, than sitting through something so uninspired that I could fall asleep any minute and check my watch to see when it ends.
-
Looks like Superman will finally have the curl: https://www.instagram.com/p/BJOEXKpA8CK/
Ohohoho.
Seriously though, I like Henry Cavill. I just wish he could have gotten a better script/director.
-
An experienced veteran batman needs to ask amanda waller for information on the meta humans, instead of oh I don't know, finding it out himself like a detective. :ninja:
Lex 'the joker' Luthor and amanda waller can find it out, as well as batmans secret identity with zero problems, but batman is too incompetent. Yep, greatest batman on film ladies and gentleman. :blink:
P.S. I still like batfleck.^^
-
I'm seeing this whole "people are being too harsh!" brought up more than I thought it would, and honestly I can't understand it.
Tonal whiplash, abysmal editing, nonexistant drive or motivation for the characters, nonexistant interactions between the squad, extraordinarily boring and mundane action against faceless foes, extraordinarily boring and mundane climax, uninspired dialogue. This is a comic book movie, it doesn't deliver on a single one of these fronts, so. . .what is it that is doing right and we're not seeing it?
Casting is good, ok. Even more reason to be harsh with it, the casting was spot on and they didn't use that chance to create nothing worthwhile with it.
I mean, just the other day I saw Doug (nostalgia critic) saying the movie is stylish, cool and fun. How is it stylish? How is it fun? What makes it "cool"? The advertisement made it look cool, the posters made it look cool, the trailers (which were awesome) made it look cool, but the movie itself looks cool? When?
Most I'm willing to concede is that maybe it was me that had a problem with the 30 minute character introduction gallery demo reel scene's presentation, which I think is atrocious, dated and tries too hard, but I've seen many genuinely find it cool, so maybe it's me (and many others). But beyond these first 30 minutes, what? It's a 2h+ movie.
-
It is pretty much the characters for me. I enjoyed pretty much all of them, so of course I enjoyed their introduction flashbacks at the beginning and I enjoyed the (way too little) character moments we got. As I said before, I agree with most of the criticisms…I wish the movie would have included more backstory for the secondary characters and more relationship building (this was hit and miss for me: I actually bought Harley and Deadshot bonding; in fact, I could easily see Harley in general bonding with her teammates, because, besides being an utter psychopath, she does come across as someone who quickly forms a relationship with other people, unstable as it may be; Diablo talking about the Squad as his replacement family however seemed a little too much and out of nowhere, for example) and the plot and the villain were...well, actually not horrible, but very generic and one-dimensional. I actually liked Enchantress at first; things only got wonky after she resurrected her brother and wanted to build some random machine to destroy the world or something.
But as I said, I did enjoy most of the performances and the jokes (the whole packed cinema did, in fact; there was a lot of laughter, people clearly enjoyed the characters, too). In complete contrast to Batman vs. Superman, where it wasn't just the completely illogical story paired with a huge sense of pretentiousness that pissed me off, but also the horrible performances by some of the cast that completely ruined the characters (Luthor! :getlost:), I'd really like to see a sequel with these characters that improves (a lot) on this film by focusing more on the relationship between the Squad members, giving Boomerang and Killer Croc more to do, including a plot better fit for this kind of story (like saving some important figure from a prominent crime syndicate or something) and allowing the characters to actually be a little more evil. And there is a movie I really wanna see; I want to see more of this cast and these characters, something I certainly did not feel after watching the other DCEU movies so far.
As for your other criticisms of the movie, kouch_lee: I honestly didn't notice any tonal whiplash. That seems to imply that the movie tried to jump from lighthearted humor to dead-serious grimdark melodrama between scenes, but...not really? There a couple scenes that were a little more serious and emotional, sure, but in general I found it kept its tone throughout the whole thing. The editing was a little wonky at times, but abysmal is a bit too much imho. And, as I said, I agree about the lack of motivation, character exploration or interaction...though again, to call it "non-existant" seems unfair. There were too few of these moments, but they were there.
I agree pretty much about your complaints about the mundane action...I could have done without the faceless demon army.The dialogue sat alright with me, but that may be a dub thing. As for your questions...I find it kind of hard to explain why I found it stylish, fun and cool, but what can I say, I did, and I had the impression that most people around me did too. It mostly loses in comparison with better films like Guardians and Deadpool who did a better job at all of these things. If these movies would get an A from me in regards to style and fun, this movie would probably get a B-. But worse than that? I've seen a lot of movies I enjoyed less this year alone.
-
Sorry if I got a bit too abrassive. It's just, this movie kind of angered me.
Gotta say I haven't watch Man of Steel or BvS, and some of the people I know defending SS do so on the grounds that "it's SO much better than those two!". So maybe I'd need a measuring bar to compare fairly?
By tonal whiplash I meant the almost childish character introductions (you know, with the text blocks that used different fonts and display depending on the character being introduced, which reminded me of worse times) and the almost playful tone at times, mixed with more grim n gritty stuff. And the ending climax is straight out taken from another movie. I don't know which one but deffinitely NOT the one that I was watching till that point.
The Joker also helped bring some disjointedness in tone, what with his clubs and pimping attitude which seemed so out of place "eeeedgy!".
That's I guess my reasons why I can't find it cool or stylish. The purely stylish moments didn't work for me, and a moment most directors usually exploit to show said style, the fight and action scenes, were just so. . .bland. Plain. Impersonal.
I mean, Winter Soldier or Civil War are not what you'd call super stylish; the color palette is kinda greyish, and most locations are buildings or what have you (though Civil War did have a rocking first scene on an exotic location), but when the action starts they have an identity of their own. It's, for me, where these two movies shine. But here, when it's time to show their stuff. . .it just loses all life it might've had previously.
As for the humor, I don't know, maybe I'll have to watch the original version and not the spanish dub, but most lines felt more hit than miss to me.
Ed: And maybe it's for the best if I stop talking about this movie cause at this point I'm just rambling like a bitter old man.
-
So… Have we figured out what Unite the Seven means? I'm going with the interpretation that it means there will be seven Justice League members. And the only choices for the seventh spot would be Shazam or Green Lantern. And if it's Shazam since the Rock is already cast as Black Adam, then having him in the same team as Supes and Wondy pretty redundant variety-wise. I know it's that's happened in the comics, but that doesn't make it feel any less repetitive.
-
Ed: And maybe it's for the best if I stop talking about this movie cause at this point I'm just rambling like a bitter old man.
You look nothing like Christopher Lee:ninja:
@Count:
So… Have we figured out what Unite the Seven means? I'm going with the interpretation that it means there will be seven Justice League members. And the only choices for the seventh spot would be Shazam or Green Lantern. And if it's Shazam since the Rock is already cast as Black Adam, then having him in the same team as Supes and Wondy pretty redundant variety-wise. I know it's that's happened in the comics, but that doesn't make it feel any less repetitive.
I don't think they may bother with Green Lantern for obvious reasons. Shazam would make some sense I guess to have around so Wally isn't the the sole child member of the group. You could also use Martian Manhunter like the cartoon, though like you said may be too simila