Hillary had already moved to a $12 an hour position with support for areas going beyond that if they wanted, which is a position that makes more sense overall anyway considering how much difference there is between working for $15 an hour in, say, New York City versus Bucksnort, Tennessee.
Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!
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Yeah if moving Hillary towards the left on certain positions and getting the democrats to adopt some of his positions was apart of Bernie's endgame (which it wasn't) I don't think part of that plan necessitated pissing away what good will he had and turning him (and his supporters) into bitter crybabies.
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Hillary had already moved to a $12 an hour position with support for areas going beyond that if they wanted, which is a position that makes more sense overall anyway considering how much difference there is between working for $15 an hour in, say, New York City versus Bucksnort, Tennessee.
Minimum wage increase needs to be incremental because every business that isn't on a coast will suffer terribly if it just jumps to $15 all at once. My boss already struggles to pay me at $12 an hour, and we're based in yuppie heaven.
The "BUT BY ASKING FOR $15 YOU FORCE THE POLITICIANS INTO NEGOTIATING DOWN TO $13" is also dumb as shit because it assumes that Republican lawmakers are used car salesmen.
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It also assumes the republicans are willing to deal at all.
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Hillary had already moved to a $12 an hour position with support for areas going beyond that if they wanted, which is a position that makes more sense overall anyway considering how much difference there is between working for $15 an hour in, say, New York City versus Bucksnort, Tennessee.
@Cyan:
Minimum wage increase needs to be incremental because every business that isn't on a coast will suffer terribly if it just jumps to $15 all at once. My boss already struggles to pay me at $12 an hour, and we're based in yuppie heaven.
The "BUT BY ASKING FOR $15 YOU FORCE THE POLITICIANS INTO NEGOTIATING DOWN TO $13" is also dumb as shit because it assumes that Republican lawmakers are used car salesmen.
Yes, it would be incremental. It's not like he wants to impose a $15 minimum wage immediately on states and businesses that may not be able to afford it. It's an increase of the minimum wage over the next several years to get to 15 an hour across the nation sooner rather than later. Here is the quote from his site.
@Bernie:
Millions of Americans are working for totally inadequate wages. We must ensure that no full-time worker lives in poverty. The current federal minimum wage is starvation pay and must become a living wage. We must increase it to $15 an hour over the next several years.
I can understand that 15 an hour in one place can go a lot further than 15 an hour in another and I can also understand the very possible adverse effects of increasing the minimum wage so drastically, like job loss, but there's a reason to phase it in over time and not just lump it on businesses as soon as the ink is dry. Also, this is not just a position Bernie takes up by himself. You see, Hillary Clinton is also fine with 15 an hour minimum wage nationally and has said the same thing about gradually implementing it to deter negative effects.
@Article:
In an interview on ABC’s “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos, Clinton said she would sign a $15 minimum wage bill put forth by Democrats if it had certain stipulations in it. The new wage floor would have to be phased in gradually and the effects of the hike would have to be evaluated in areas with lower costs of living.
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-minumum-wage_us_57139f45e4b06f35cb6fd5da
Regardless of where you believe Hillary stood on the minimum wage position on one day compared to the other we can all agree that in many states the minimum wage isn't adequate and both Hillary and Bernie want to increase it. I think 12 and 15 are good numbers to shoot for and, honestly, I can see Hillary's (initial?) number of 12 is the more realistic option, but seeing as how she agrees with 15 too it's not too far off to think it's a good number to at least hold up as an option.
Yeah if moving Hillary towards the left on certain positions and getting the democrats to adopt some of his positions was apart of Bernie's endgame (which it wasn't) I don't think part of that plan necessitated pissing away what good will he had and turning him (and his supporters) into bitter crybabies.
Since his endgame was winning the race and being the democratic nominee then getting democrats to adopt his positions and move further to the left was definitely a part of his overall plan. It's just that since he can't win the race he's doing the next best thing in fulfilling some of his goals by continuing to put pressure on the party to stay left. And I think its been proven time and time again that the majority of Bernie's supporters aren't crybabies, least of all Bernie himself, and are really, really willing to jump ship to Hillary Clinton.
This is something that should be naturally accepted, not taken and flipped around to continue to bash Bernie and his supporters. If we want to talk about unifying the party (which is already happening very quickly) this is the kind of rhetoric that Hillary and Bernie supporters need to discontinue.
It also assumes the republicans are willing to deal at all.
Assuming that republicans aren't willing to deal at all then whatever position is proposed to them is kind of moot regardless of the contents. Whatever minimum wage increase we eventually get might just take a majority of democrats to force through.
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Doesn't the fact Donald is hitting on politicians from other countries asking for funds further proves he has no campaign at all?
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Since his endgame was winning the race and being the democratic nominee then getting democrats to adopt his positions and move further to the left was definitely a part of his overall plan. It's just that since he can't win the race he's doing the next best thing in fulfilling some of his goals by continuing to put pressure on the party to stay left. And I think its been proven time and time again that the majority of Bernie's supporters aren't crybabies, least of all Bernie himself, and are really, really willing to jump ship to Hillary Clinton.
Even when the losses were piling up making his getting the nomination all but impossible and he stated his intentions to stay in the race up until the convention or his pleas for Debbie Wasserman Schultz to step down (which I believe he reneged on) for her apparent attempts to sabotage Bernie's chances, and this lawsuit that was filed by his supporters.
This is something that should be naturally accepted, not taken and flipped around to continue to bash Bernie and his supporters.
If Bernie and the more uncompromising of his supporters had held themselves to better standards over the course of the last few months I'd agree
If we want to talk about unifying the party (which is already happening very quickly) is the kind of rhetoric that Hillary and Bernie supporters need to discontinue.
Maybe it's my ignorance on politics but was the Democratic Party that badly divided?
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So, those emails Trump sent to foreign investors have gotten the FEC to come crashing down on him.
Is this all a mad plan to be barred from officially running before he loses horrendously?
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I hope they don't. It will be like Bernie all over again, that because "them" don't want him to run, becomes a symbol.
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Trump hasn't actually forgave his campaign loans like he said he would.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-trump-hasnt-forgiven-loans
He probably said that because donors are less likely to give money if he's going to turn around and pay off his loans rather than spending it on the campaign.
Also, three plus one equals more than five.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-scotus-abortion-texas
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Trump sent out a bunch of fundraising emails… to British MPs.
A Scottish MP responded.
They also hit up politicians from Denmark, Australia, and Finland.
And Iceland
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Even when the losses were piling up making his getting the nomination all but impossible and he stated his intentions to stay in the race up until the convention or his pleas for Debbie Wasserman Schultz to step down (which I believe he reneged on) for her apparent attempts to sabotage Bernie's chances, and this lawsuit that was filed by his supporters.
When he knew he was going to lose and it became obvious he shifted his attention from winning the nomination to influencing the democratic platform with a strengthened hand by staying in the race. Its been proven and that's what's happening right now.
As for some of his supporters choosing to sue the DNC over its perceived bias towards one candidate over the other I can understand some of its points. It's hardly a surprise to know the DNC favored Hillary Clinton over any of her competitors. She was/is the "establishment" candidate. It's like realizing the Republican establishment didn't want Donald Trump (was against him from the start) because, duh! And I'm not even talking about the wholly insignificant stuff like debate scheduling or any of the blatant conspiracy riff-raff like rigging votes. I'm talking about simple human bias towards one person over the other. If people actually believe the DNC was completely fair in their handling of the democratic race between Hillary and Bernie that's fine, but hasn't it been touted on here numerous times how much Bernie is supposedly hated by his democratic colleagues?
But I do see a specific problem in the lawsuit as it implies and reinforces the idea that the DNC was doing some kind of rigging when in fact the realistic problem is simple nuanced favorability of one candidate over the other. If the lawsuit brings that point to light I'm not completely against it.
If Bernie and the more uncompromising of his supporters had held themselves to better standards over the course of the last few months I'd agree
Bernie refusing to attack Hillary on easy targets like her emails and Benghazi even when practically given every opportunity from every news outlet out there? Now I know some things were said between the two because afterall it was a passionate race from both sides but overall I'd definitely say Bernie conducted himself professionally.
Maybe it's my ignorance on politics but was the Democratic Party that badly divided?
Realistically? Only temporarily. Again, I bring up the 2008 race which was much closer and much more contentious and vitriolic. That was a pretty 'divided' party but it came around when it needed to.
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And Iceland
They love me in Iceland, I've been there, you gotta go. Ice everywhere, all over the land, the ice, and the sun at midnight coming home. I go up to them in Iceland, I go, and I say "Hey Iceland, whats with all the ice? Isn't that too much?" And they go, they go "Donald? You're right." and that's how they made a billion off that thing they got. It's beautiful. Beautiful country, wonderful forests there, the best.
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When he knew he was going to lose and it became obvious he shifted his attention from winning the nomination to influencing the democratic platform with a strengthened hand by staying in the race.
Which once again shouldn't have required Bernie making himself look increasingly bitter and desperate along with pissing away what good will he already barely had with the party.
If people actually believe the DNC was completely fair in their handling of the democratic race between Hillary and Bernie that's fine, but hasn't it been touted on here numerous times how much Bernie is supposedly hated by his democratic colleagues?
Which if I recall correctly has lot to do with how Bernie for years has more or less been willing to throw the party under the bus (something I honestly didn't know anything about prior to this race). Which kind of comes off looking awkward when you decide to run for President but have to caucus with the democrats because you know good and well you can't run third party.
Bernie refusing to attack Hillary on easy targets like her emails and Benghazi even when practically given every opportunity from every news outlet out there?
If he had attacked her on that it would've made him look just as stupid, tired, and desperate as the Republicans who were already (and currently) doing it.
Realistically? Only temporarily. Again, I bring up the 2008 race which was much closer and much more contentious and vitriolic. That was a pretty 'divided' party but it came around when it needed to.
I would argue this primary is a bit worse given all the obligatory "Lesser Evilism" within the base though Bernie's supporters don't seem to amount to as much as Hillary's did back in 08.
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@Monkey:
They love me in Iceland, I've been there, you gotta go. Ice everywhere, all over the land, the ice, and the sun at midnight coming home. I go up to them in Iceland, I go, and I say "Hey Iceland, whats with all the ice? Isn't that too much?" And they go, they go "Donald? You're right." and that's how they made a billion off that thing they got. It's beautiful. Beautiful country, wonderful forests there, the best.
Dunno, it's a nice country and all but we could make it great again if we built a wall to separate it from Greenland.
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I've seen a few people suggest that the Trump campaign hitting up those foreign politicians was because they had lobbied them in the past for one thing or another and his kids just basically sent the message to everybody in their inbox rather than, you know, actually looking to see who they were spamming. Of course, it says a lot about the Trump campaign that "staggering incompetence" is actually the preferable explanation on their end.
When he knew he was going to lose and it became obvious he shifted his attention from winning the nomination to influencing the democratic platform with a strengthened hand by staying in the race. Its been proven and that's what's happening right now.
Bernie didn't really get much of anything; the positions they adopted were pretty much ones that Clinton had already switched over to months ago and there were numerous other things that he was pushing for that were rejected outright.
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Been meaning to post this but could never find the time
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/286110-poll-finds-almost-no-support-for-trump-among-black-voters.
Welp not surprising but still horrible…..and laughable.
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Trump just doesn't get that Scotland hates his guts
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^I don't think Trump gets Scotland, period.
Which once again shouldn't have required Bernie making himself look increasingly bitter and desperate along with pissing away what good will he already barely had with the party.
This seems to be a matter of opinion because focusing on the party issues doesn't come off to me as being bitter and desperate.
Which if I recall correctly has lot to do with how Bernie for years has more or less been willing to throw the party under the bus (something I honestly didn't know anything about prior to this race). Which kind of comes off looking awkward when you decide to run for President but have to caucus with the democrats because you know good and well you can't run third party.
But here's the thing. I don't know if democrats hate Bernie Sanders as much as you all think they do. It seems to me that it's more about who they prefer to be their leader and the pragmatic choice.
Relevant quote:
@Sen.:
Bernie has been here for 25 years. Lots and lots of people in Congress know Bernie well. We like Bernie, we admire Bernie. But of the almost 200 members of Congress who are Democrats, I think two of them have endorsed Bernie Sanders. This is about leadership. It’s about who can bring people together and accomplish the things we all want.
If he had attacked her on that it would've made him look just as stupid, tired, and desperate as the Republicans who were already (and currently) doing it.
You're definitely right about that but it's like damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Damned if he does attack her about those things because that'd be a stupid line of attack. Damned if he doesn't attack her about those things because then the only credit he gets is 'he's just trying not to look stupid'.
Which is part of the truth but maybe perhaps he also has some kind of integrity or standard he holds himself up to?
I would argue this primary is a bit worse given all the obligatory "Lesser Evilism" within the base though Bernie's supporters don't seem to amount to as much as Hillary's did back in 08.
Yes, fortunately as is being show in the polls many of Bernie Sander's supporters are rejecting that nasty rhetoric and getting ready to vote Hillary.
Bernie didn't really get much of anything; the positions they adopted were pretty much ones that Clinton had already switched over to months ago and there were numerous other things that he was pushing for that were rejected outright.
This is true but a lot of the credit for Clinton switching over to these positions months ago could be given to Bernie beating the drum and marching to the left of her, and the reason those issues staying in the limelight because of him insisting that they do.
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This seems to be a matter of opinion because focusing on the party issues doesn't come off to me as being bitter and desperate.
It's not it's the staying in the race when he should have dropped out months ago and insisting he'll go to the convention and see if things change there. And most definitely not helped by some of Jeff Weaver's comments.
But here's the thing. I don't know if democrats hate Bernie Sanders as much as you all think they do. It seems to me that it's more about who they prefer to be their leader and the pragmatic choice.
More or less seems like she's unintentionally saying Bernie is great and all but he doesn't come off as a guy
who'll be willing to make compromises when warranted. -
The Trump campaign is still emailing foreign politicians begging for funds; interestingly enough, at least one Australian MP is also getting them from a Trump SuperPAC. This is interesting because that implies that they're using the same email list, which suggests the two are coordinating. Which is illegal but so is soliciting foreign contributions.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/welp-that-s-weird-but-of-course-it-is
This is true but a lot of the credit for Clinton switching over to these positions months ago could be given to Bernie beating the drum and marching to the left of her, and the reason those issues staying in the limelight because of him insisting that they do.
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[qimg]http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/hkcslsih4am3cw045lac.jpg[/qimg]
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There's are so many avenues to go down here.
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His campaign pretty quickly undid that. The Tweet was edited and now features a circle instead of the Star of David….
Doesn't change what screenshots caught tho.
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Jewish Star and lots of money in the background. Hmmm…. what could he be saying here?
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I wonder how much politicians are even involved with their social media accounts, anyway. Like did one of his media team members make that, and he gave the approval before being tweeted? Are his normal text tweets even written by him?
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He definitely appears to be writing his tweets himself. Though obviously he didn't make that image.
When Hillary personally posts a tweet she ends it with her inital. Otherwise it's her campaign.
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The Donald is too arrogant to delegate tweet-writing to minions.
Plus they replicate his speaking style in a way no other written form does.
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@Cyan:
The Donald is too arrogant to delegate tweet-writing to minions.
Plus they replicate his speaking style in a way no other written form does.
Could you imagine if they hired someone to tweet for him based on how accurate they could Donald?
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I don't think it would be that hard to mimic his posting. It's 3rd grade insults for the 80s mixed with lack of facts, lies and depth. I could make the same tweets easily since it sounds like he doesn't even know anything about the majority of people he targets.
@Jill Stein: She's rude. Nobody likes her. Shrill and a rude loser. Lame party.
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@RioOlympics: If I did Rio Olympics it would be much better and much cheaper! People wouldn't want to leave my beautiful buildings No Zika Virus in those!
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@GreenParty what a lame color! Only colors that matter are Red White and Blue!!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Relevant to thus discussion: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-worlds-favorite-donald-trump-tweets/
More than two-thirds of Trump’s tweets had at least one exclamation point, and less than one-third of Cruz’s and less than 10 percent of Clinton’s and Bernie Sanders’s tweets had punchy punctuation. One in 10 of Trump’s tweets had two or more exclamation points, an order of magnitude more than any of the other three candidates.
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That Corrupt Hillary image with the Star of David apparently originated on /pol/.
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Because of course it did.
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@Jill Stein: She's rude! Nobody likes her. Shrill rude loser in a lame party! Sad!
I fixed that for you.
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An interesting quiz;http://www.isidewith.com/political-quiz
Highest rating for me was 80% for Bernie. -
That quiz was posted ages ago.
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The article leaves out the little fact that Ivana divorced Donald because of cruel and inhuman treatment with one of the stated reasons at the time being rape and he's also been hit with at least one other lawsuit because of attempted rape of a former employee.
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Jesus…This is actually real?
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Shit just hit the fan
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And now the shit is hitting the fan harder, as the FBI is releasing everything on Hilary Clinton.
This election is so fucked.
EDIT: "No charges will be recommended." Oh… Oh okay.
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What a shocker. Time for the GOP to chase another wild goose.
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She's probably going to get sanctions placed on her security access, but, that's basically a slap on the wrist and not all that bad. Doesn't mean the Republican Party won't have a field day with this, especially when the FBI director stated that she was extremely careless and DID, in fact, LIE about the e-mails she sent not containing classified information at the time they were sent (when, in fact, they did, according to today's announcement).
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@The:
She's probably going to get sanctions placed on her security access, but, that's basically a slap on the wrist and not all that bad. Doesn't mean the Republican Party won't have a field day with this, especially when the FBI director stated that she was extremely careless and DID, in fact, LIE about the e-mails she sent not containing classified information at the time they were sent (when, in fact, they did, according to today's announcement).
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that a "LIE", especially in all Caps like that.
They said that the majority of the classified emails were reclassified as such, meaning they were not considered classified at the time. The number that didn't fall under this were 110 Classified ones and 10 "Top Secret" classified ones totaling about 120 emails. Out of over 30,000. Even if we're super generous and we say it was 150 classified emails in there, and we assume a flat 30,000 as the total and not some higher number, then that comes out to about 0.5% of all the emails. Half a percent of all the emails here were actually classified.
Its entirely plausible that when Clinton said none of the emails on her server were classified at the time, she may have actually meant it. The number of emails that actually were classified relative to the number of emails there were total here is so minuscule that it's EXTREMELY plausible she legitimately thought none had slipped in there.
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The classification process itself was a lot of the issue as at least some of the emails flagged as containing classified information were in reference to a newpaper article about drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen, which was discussed in the context of what the State Department should do if asked about the strikes. The drone program is considered classified by intelligence agencies; the fact that news agencies often cover strikes made by that program doesn't matter to them and each reference to them, no matter how innocuous, was considered classified material.
So it's not just possible but probable that none of the people involved even suspected that the material was classified.
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@Article:
Clinton sent and received emails that concerned matters that were classified at the top-secret special access program level at the time of the communications, he said. That flatly contradicted the former first lady’s public assertion that she never sent or received classified information. “There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position or in the position of those with whom she was corresponding about the matters should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation,” Comey said. Comey also said “it is possible that hostile actors gained access” to Clinton’s private email account, noting that her use of that system was widely known and that she sent and received work emails “in the territory of sophisticated adversaries.” The FBI chief explained the decision not to recommend charges by saying that previous cases that were prosecuted involved a blend of clearly intentional mishandling of national secrets, or disloyalty to the U.S., or obstruction of justice. “But we do not see those things here,” he said. Still, Comey said, individuals found to have done what Clinton and her senior aides did rarely face “no consequences.” Instead, “those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions,” he said. But with Clinton and her top aides out of government, that seemed unlikely to occur. The Clinton campaign said it was pleased with the outcome. “As the Secretary has long said, it was a mistake to use her personal email and she would not do it again,” the campaign said in a prepared statement. “We are glad that this matter is now resolved.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-comey-no-charges-appropriate-000000895.html So the conclusion is the same as its always been. Hillary Clinton screwed up, she admits she screwed up, and she isn't going to be indicted because her mistakes weren't intentional or nefarious. They were just dumb. Sounds about right to me. But TLM is right that Republicans will have a field day with this especially with the FBI director saying individuals rarely come out of a situation like this facing no consequences. Well, meet Hillary. Unless you look at the political damage (if any) this whole debacle has done to Hillary Clinton.
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Well, meet Hillary. Unless you look at the political damage (if any) this whole debacle has done to Hillary Clinton.
The Benghazi hearing didn't do much of any damage to her, this doesn't look like it'll do any damage either which means the Republicans and Trump are going to have to come up with something else to smear her with come the debates.
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I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that a "LIE", especially in all Caps like that.
No it is not. She categorically stated that none of the emails sent from her personal server contained any classified material. That is a lie. No stretching there at all.@Demon:
The number that didn't fall under this were 110 Classified ones and 10 "Top Secret" classified ones totaling about 120 emails. Out of over 30,000. Even if we're super generous and we say it was 150 classified emails in there, and we assume a flat 30,000 as the total and not some higher number, then that comes out to about 0.5% of all the emails. Half a percent of all the emails here were actually classified.Its entirely plausible that when Clinton said none of the emails on her server were classified at the time, she may have actually meant it. The number of emails that actually were classified relative to the number of emails there were total here is so minuscule that it's EXTREMELY plausible she legitimately thought none had slipped in there.
Jesus Christ. People have been fired from jobs with much less at stake for much less than this. It looks like you're underestimating the damage that even a single email that contained classified information living in an insecure server can cause if it falls into the wrong hands. When it comes to national security, you're as safe as your weakest link. It then does not matter if you've stored 30,000 or 3 million benign happy birthday messages and penis enlargement pill emails alongside that. Hacking a server is not a numbers game. If someone breaches that server, they get everything. Of course she won't be indicted for this, but it would be foolish to not admit that this puts serious question marks on her judgement and ability to lead.