You can fill an 8 player smash with FE in February(Ike, Roy, boy/girl Marth, Robin, Corn)
Super Smash Bros
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Can't wait for the next iteration of Smash brothers: Mario vs. Fire Emblem vs. Pokemon
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I have zero problem with the amount of Mario and Pokemon representation given the size of those two franchises, it's just Fire Emblem that's so out of whack given it's one of Nintendo's B-players at best.
Maybe they'll consider a second F-Zero rep next time, if anyone can remember that was a series once by then.
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If Sakurai needs more sword users Sceptile is ready to be used.
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Maybe they'll consider a second F-Zero rep next time, if anyone can remember that was a series once by then.
Next Smash, we won't get a F-Zero rep. Instead joining the fight will be…
[hide]A car from Fast Racing Neo
[hide]and Captain Falcon will be replaced by another car from Fast Racing Neo[/hide][/hide] -
I have zero problem with the amount of Mario and Pokemon representation given the size of those two franchises, it's just Fire Emblem that's so out of whack given it's one of Nintendo's B-players at best.
Maybe they'll consider a second F-Zero rep next time, if anyone can remember that was a series once by then.
I mention Mario and Pokemon due to the fact that with Fire Emblem it's like a third of the game. Everyone else is just making a cameo at this point… ok, that's hyperbole. But, to consider that even fucking Zelda and Donkey Kong, multi-million dollar franchises, are being outpaced by Fire Emblem is stupid. Even when both those franchises have plenty of obviously desired and deserving characters.
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In a fighting game with an established history every potential roster addition is desirable and deserving even the unforseen and outlandish picks.
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every potential roster addition is desirable and deserving
Nah, this one is just really fucking stupid. I understand that from the competitive aspect it's all extra meta-game that's being added, but from the side of the smash fan-base where the hype is seeing your favorite Nintendo characters, this one is just fucking stupid. Wii Fit Trainer was also a salty addition, but at least it's one you come to terms with in the sense that it added something and was representing a huge part of Nintendo. Same goes for R.O.B., and heck, even Jigglypuff made sense at the time.
The only logic of this addition is Sakurai feeling like not giving a fuck about anyone but the japanese FE fans, and that's just really fucking stupid given the greater context of what this game is supposed to be. Even ROY had some logic on Melee, but this one stomps on that and just overcomes it in terms of how nonsensical a middle finger it is.Fighting games making stupid additions is not even new either. Consider that old fart pretending to be Mega Man from that one game.
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Hey everyone. I just realized the most important detail that's been overlooked in this Smash update.
[hide]The Kunckles Mii fighter costume
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[hide]Yeah that's the one
[hide]We get that Mii's QR code[/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide] -
Like they seriously just cut Knuckles' eyes and snout out for that costume. For fuck's sake just make it his complete head.
Of course the Black Knight from Fire Emblem costume has a complete mask, but that's FIRE EMBLEM so we can make that look decent.
The costumes for Geno, K. Rool, the Inklings, Knuckles, Tails, Lloyd, etc. are Sakurai's way of saying there's nothing preventing him from putting those characters in, but how dare you ask something of him, so here are some twisted mockeries that spit on your hopes, you Fire Emblem-disrespecting western devils.
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In any case, been playing as Cloud for some time now, and I don't know how to feel about him. Initially he felt a bit too strong and easy to use, but it's easy to see how he can become more of a spacing/read-y character than a combo dealer. Kind of feels like a quicker Shulk.
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Bayonets is what I needed but I didn't know that I wanted.
Corin can bite you with their dragon hands, and has a chaninsaw sword.
And Cloud is as bland as possible.
I'm going to be happy over here, while plotting how to get ridley and Gannon in.
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Just had sooooo many matches in for glory, many of them featuring cloud on one side or both. It's pretty interesting to see how differently people are using him. I've seen people do the Robin with him where they charge and then when you attack they hit back with quick jabs and such, and people who seem to forget he even has ranged attack as they just jump into the fray. I myself dab in a little bit of both, and fought this cloud for several matches with all of my mains and learned from him as a result.
Probably what I think his greatest skill is so far is edge-guarding, given he has a ranged attack, two meteor smashes and a long-ass sword, as well as fast jabs and that damned down tilt.
But yea, fun times!
edit: Also,
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While I am disappointed another Fire Emblem character got it, I kind of get it., Awakening was really successful for the first time in the series and they want to continue that momentum with this, I think. Plus he looks fun to play and different enough from other Fire Emblem characters.
Bayonetta getting in is awesome as hell, though. I've wanted her since announcement, but people always said she'd never get in due to her sexuality and violence and that they'd have to kill the essence of her character for her to get in. I ended up not voting for her in the ballot, but I'm so happy she won.
I still wish Isaac got in over Corrin, though.
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All in all, I never thought I'd be so unenthusiastic about a chain-sword being in Smash
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Extended thoughts on the last of the DLC:
All in all, I must say it's been an excellent ride with you all….this game has almost 60 characters, and while there are some clones here and there, for the most part, everyone plays in their own unique way. And that's pretty cool!
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Cloud - well, after trying him out, yeah, he's fun to use. Definitely the middleman between Ike and Shulk; has some of the former's raw power, but has movement options and technical play like the latter. Using the Limit to enhance each of the specials is pretty neat (Sword Beam :D). Also someone tell me what his victory music is called, because it is extremely catchy.
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Corrin/Kamui - this seems to be the least popular of the three ending picks, and I certainly see why. It doesn't have the OMGWHAT factor of the other two, but more to the point, it is another rep from Fire Emblem. Even someone like me, who's one of the biggest fans of the series, thinks having 6 reps is a tad unnecessary. At the very least all of the lords or what have you represent different FE worlds, and this one incorporates a shifting sword and dragon transformation (a series reoccuring theme), so there is uniqueness to be had. So much that saying "too many swordsmen" would only annoy me more :)
But I get it. I personally was expecting Inklings, Wolf, or Snake for this "slot". Was I really surprised for this one? Yes. But after seeing the move breakdown, I definitely want to use her (Elise confirmed F!Kamui is best Kamui). I do feel sorry for the people that were banking on other characters, and I hate the fact that this is gonna paint a giant red mark on Fire Emblem until the game's cycle ends.
Like some people are just going to view the series as the thing that "cost me my Banjo/Shantae/Shovel Knight/K.Rool/[insert other pick]", and resent it for however long. Remember when everyone was hating on Kid Icarus b/c of Dark Pit?
But still, I'm pretty hyped.
- Bayonetta - SO glad she got in. Not my top pick for the ballot, but she easily was in the top 5 or so. She looks so damn fun to use, her moveset is very faithful to the games, and she has that classic Bayo snark. The music…....man oh man, Bayonetta music is the best thing ever.
If it was just Corrin and Cloud, I imagine there would be a ton more of angry people. But considering a time-stopping, gun-shooting, arm-summoning witch is going to be the last DLC character for this game, with a very diverse and intricate moveset, good lord did the Smash team finish strong. Well, at least in my opinion.
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"I am so mad thay put a character that I don't know of it instead of my fat crocodile that has no special features."
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Also:
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[/hide]These posters are gorgeous. I am definitely going to be making avatars out of them, so if someone has a specific request…..
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Villager confirmed as reincarnation of a god of darkness
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I like that Ryu and Mac are punching each other.
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Also, those posters look good, tho the Nomura one is kinda bland/lacking…. The Bayonetta one is fucking AMAZING!!
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As a finale it was a bit lack luster. And its all because of the ordering of the last three characters. If Corrin was announced last month I don't think we would be nearly as underwhelmed by the finale. Because if Bayonetta and Cloud was revealed yesterday as the finale characters people would've been loosing their shit as they did before. But revealing Cloud earlier opened up so much possibilities, and then we get another Fire Emblem character, and Bayonetta.
Bayonetta out of the final three, makes me the happiest. I still haven't played through all of Bayonetta 2 yet, but I really like the character and what she means to Nintendo History. Does she count as a 2nd Party character considering Nintendo Published the games? Regardless she represents Nintendo's earnest attempt to bring back core-gamers back to their consoles with mature games. Bayonetta 2 was one of the games that sold me on the Wii U, hilarious considering I haven't finished it, but I'm super behind on my gaming. As a fighter she seems overpowered, but besides that she defiantly fits the bill who I like to play as; fast and multiple jabs style.
I'm glad for the people who love Final Fantasy, because they got Cloud, but I'm rather indifferent. I think he represents a weird broken up relationship between Nintendo and Square, so his inclusion is odd. I think characters like Black Mage or Chrono would've been more appropriate, but they are not not as big or marketable. Regardless it gave us a Geno costume and that's all I could've asked for. While I was in the camp that wanted Geno for a full fledged fighter, and maybe seeing how popular he is, this might help him get into Smash 5, I'm just happy Nintendo acknowledge him again. Its been a decade since his cameo in Mario & Luigi.
Corrin is the most frustrating character out of the set. He's another Fire Emblem character, great… For those who are fans of Fire Emblem, awesome! But I still feel like the slot should've been Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, a Zelda character, Wolf or Krystal. I feel like if we was going to add another character to an existing franchise why not ones that are bigger and have less reps, ala Donkey Kong, Zelda, Metriod, or Star Fox. Though, I do like the tradition of a Fire Emblem character getting in before their games are released, but I feel like adding a new IP would've been more beneficial. Like the Inkling from Splatoon. I don't have the problem with him being another swordsmen, just I'm bored of Fire Emblem characters. They have the second most characters behind Mario, but they don't feel nearly as impactful as Mario characters.
But yea, once you introduced Cloud and then said there's 2 more characters and one of them is going to be a people's choice, that had our mind's racing. And While I defiantly want Bayonetta in, she doesn't feel like she should've been a Ballot Winner. She should've been a in anyways as part of the Wii U's core games. But I guess all of her votes were in from early on, both because how far in production she is, and that no one is talking about her anymore. Like she never really popped into much conversations the same way Wolf, King K. Rool, Shovel Knight, Banjo Kazooie, or other more popular choices. It also seems like more people voted on her to be in the game than actual bought her game, haha.
But the Ballot feels like a huge let down partial due to all the characters being in production for a while, so the last 3 months of voting was useless because the discussion was already made. On top of that with the "realizable" characters option being vague it feels weird. On top of that a lot of the choices people talked about wanting became Mii Fighters... which feels more insulting than it should.
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@Cyan:
Actually the ideal is cutting Marth and Roy and leaving 'Cina. Marth also has the problem of "no good games", but also the massive problem of "killed the series"
That's actually wrong.
I thought Shadow Dragon was garbage, but it sold pretty well since it was a remake of the first game (which is beloved in Japan) that people bought out of nostalgia.
The reason why they made FE11 and FE12 (which was an improvement, though we wouldn't know about that here since it wasn't localized) remakes was because the Tellius games vastly underperformed; after losing so much money, they decided to use pre-existing assets rather than making something from scratch to save up a little.
So as much as it pains me to admit, it's Ike who would have killed the series if not for Awakening.
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"I am so mad thay put a character that I don't know of it instead of my fat crocodile that has no special features."
"I have nothing to say so let me make condescending comments about how superior I am for not being butthurt."
In other news, I find it amusing people think Marth should be cut from the game. Yes, shadow dragon sucked but it's fucking Marth, the original Lord and there was a reason he was the first FE character in Smash.
The ideal combo for Fire Emblem is easily Marth, Ike, Robin and Borrin, given then you have four unique movesets. Roy and Lucina have no reason to return aside from being costumes for Marth. -
snip snap
By far the worst part to me was he announcement that this was the last content for Sm4sh. That's unnecessarily digging a hole for themselves and makes the salt around Corrin more plentiful.
Considering we live in a world where TF2 exists, a game that still gets major content updates 8 years later, and also considering that, if we do get another Smash at all it will be years down the line, it really isn't unreasonable to provide more DLC support for SSB4. Not to mention that all the DLC together costs more than the 3DS game, so they're basically making back the price of the full game with what appears to be a fraction of its production time/cost.
I'm with you on Splatoon being more deserving than Corrin. Splatoon helped move the Wii U, which is no easy feat for a new IP. It's Nintendo's most popular new IP since, what, Pikmin?
With Corrin, Sakurai displays his willingness to go out of his way to support a new and upcoming game then exercises it by bloating what is now tied for the second most represented series in the Smash. Even Bayonetta wouldn't have gotten in if she didn't in some way win the character poll, but Corrin was guaranteed a slot. On top of that, Corrin is the second Fire Emblem character to be added as DLC. And then he's framed as one of the last characters to be added. It definitely feels like a kick in the pants.
After that, all the Mii fighter costumes feel like Sakurai saying "We recognized the popularity of this character to our fanbase, but felt like Corrin was more important."
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Considering we live in a world where TF2 exists, a game that still gets major content updates 8 years later, and also considering that, if we do get another Smash at all it will be years down the line, it really isn't unreasonable to provide more DLC support for SSB4. Not to mention that all the DLC together costs more than the 3DS game, so they're basically making back the price of the full game with what appears to be a fraction of its production time/cost.
Yeah, but here's a loophole:
"Last update for Smash for Wii U/ 3DS"
Say it gets ported to NX…
I don't play Smash, not do I have a Wii U, but from what residual knowledge I have, as an outsider looking in, it doesn't seem too unlikely that they will choose to port a definitive edition of an already gargantuan, content-bloated game and then continue on expanding it even more with DLC, instead of starting over from scratch with all the waiting and difficulties associated with that.
Not saying it will happen, but I would straight up do that if I were Nintendo. I'd turn it into Nintendo's Team Fortress 2 and keep it as an evergreen platform of a game.
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[hiDE]
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Cloud only comes with 2 songs which is pretty disappointing, I want more. At least the classic arpeggio melody from every Final Fantasy.
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Cloud only comes with 2 songs which is pretty disappointing, I want more. At least the classic arpeggio melody from every Final Fantasy.
So what? Ryu didn't came with Guile's theme either.
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Damn Black Leg, what.a.glorious.sig
OT: eh, erm Tournament mode?
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So what? Ryu didn't came with Guile's theme either.
Cloud is the only DLC I've bought so far so I went in expecting more than 2 tracks. I just wish there was more tracks that came with each DLC.
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After that, all the Mii fighter costumes feel like Sakurai saying "We recognized the popularity of this character to our fanbase, but felt like Corrin was more important."
Not that I don't think there's some logic here, but I feel as if there would be no valued outcome no matter what.
-Geno gets made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf why does a one-off character from a SNES game get a slot?"
-Tails and/or Knuckles get made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf Sonic reps over Nintendo characters?"
-Takamaru gets made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf someone from a Japan-only game gets in?"Again, this is from the perspective of someone who loves FE and thinks Kamui has a neat moveset - it was still superfluous, and I can definitely name other characters I'd support more readily in this situation.
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Not that I don't think there's some logic here, but I feel as if there would be no valued outcome no matter what.
-Geno gets made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf why does a one-off character from a SNES game get a slot?"
-Tails and/or Knuckles get made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf Sonic reps over Nintendo characters?"
-Takamaru gets made into a character, people see other mii costumes and go "wtf someone from a Japan-only game gets in?"Again, this is from the perspective of someone who loves FE and thinks Kamui has a neat moveset - it was still superfluous, and I can definitely name other characters I'd support more readily in this situation.
Well that's fine for the more obscure characters, but what about King K Rool who clearly was only made into a Mii Fighter costume to please Ballot voters.
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Well that's fine for the more obscure characters, but what about King K Rool who clearly was only made into a Mii Fighter costume to please Ballot voters.
"wtf some crocodile who hasn't been an actual villain since the 90s and has only appeared in spin-offs"
Actually K.Rool would've been pretty dope, but anyway, my point is that no matter what the circumstance is, some people will always have a reason explaining why X doesn't belong in the game in favor over Y, be the reason actually be legitimate (like Corrin, totally fair complaints there) or just venting salt.
I do understand that the miis just feel like shitty consolation prizes to some tbh. No arguments there.
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I don't care about the number of reps each franchise gets. Corrin looks fun to play and that's good enough for me.
It just sound odd for me to have the male version being called Corrin because a it sounds like "Corinne" which is an exclusive female name in France.Anyway, fantastic job overall by Sakurai and his team.
A little sad that Golden Sun didn't get anything. I was hoping that Isaac or Matthew being in that game could lead to reboot/sequel.
Now, I fear that that franchise will never come back. -
Poor Sakurai, has a poor understanding of what "pleasing the masses" means.
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The point isn't some people always having something to complain about. The point is Sakurai acknowledging the demand and shunning it intentionally, and going "well I'm aware you want it but you can't have it! Here's an absurd Mii skin instead." If he'd ignored it I would actually be less annoyed, because it does sting when that happens, and it's laughable if it's supposed to be some kind of consolation prize. I'd rather just pretend he's clueless. Or that hell, if he's going to be biased that he has the balls to stand by his decisions and not offer something that amounts to a taunt. Dangling something in front of you that you can't have.
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I personaly rather know that he "can't" or "won't" do it instead of the doubt. Like the removal of everything Golden Sun related except a couple of songs.
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The point is Sakurai acknowledging the demand and shunning it intentionally, and going "well I'm aware you want it but you can't have it! Here's an absurd Mii skin instead."
I really don't think it's fair to say that mii costumes are made purely out of malice. That's implying he looks at a myriad of suggestions, laughs condescendingly, and goes "hey team! Let's needlessly pour time and money into making mii costumes just to stick it to the fans!!"
Is it really so unreasonable some people can look at it and go "oh neat, X costume who I thought was never going to be a Smash game ever. X might still not be in, but I make a little something more out of it then just trying to design a regular mii"
Again, I'm not saying everyone should love them. Or that everyone does. "Pretending" a character is in would never be as great as actually seeing the character, and that's exactly why they aren't very good consolation prizes to some. But to others…..
Or that hell, if he's going to be biased that he has the balls to stand by his decisions and not offer something that amounts to a taunt. Dangling something in front of you that you can't have.
I personally wouldn't feel this way even if I hated all three choices and wanted every single one of the mii costume picks as an actual character. But we disagree it seems, and that's fine by me.
Now for something brighter. Character poster avatars, like I promised!
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I really don't think it's fair to say that mii costumes are made purely out of malice. That's implying he looks at a myriad of suggestions, laughs condescendingly, and goes "hey team! Let's needlessly pour time and money into making mii costumes just to stick it to the fans!!"
Nobody said there's malice involved. Just awareness and intention to shun a very popular character. The costumes are simultaneously acknowledgement of the fan request and denial of its inclusion. I can't think of any reason for them to be there other than an attempt to appease those fans, but it doesn't work that way.
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Nobody said there's malice involved. Just awareness and intention to shun a very popular character. The costumes are simultaneously acknowledgement of the fan request and denial of its inclusion. I can't think of any reason for them to be there other than an attempt to appease those fans, but it doesn't work that way.
I'm afraid I'm slightly confused. A shun is to deny something exists, to reject something. A costume based off a character would do the opposite wouldn't it? Here comes X character in the public eye. It's not a rule that a mii costume will never be a character in the future, right…..?
Like why can't it be a jumping off point?
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Funny. When he said "Among realizable characters", I heard "I do what the hell I want guys".
I heard no Shrek, no Goku
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I'm afraid I'm slightly confused. A shun is to deny something exists, to reject something. A costume based off a character would do the opposite wouldn't it? Here comes X character in the public eye. It's not a rule that a mii costume will never be a character in the future, right…..?
Like why can't it be a jumping off point?
I would try to explain but I think it's pointless; you really don't get it XD. Let me just try an example to see if you can grasp the feeling that happens.
Let's say you're dying to get the next Super Awesome Game. It's something you've wanted for a long time, but you just can't afford it. Today is your birthday. You're really nervous, because you're really really hoping your parents bought it for you. You've talked about the game a lot, so you're hoping they got the hint. Finally it comes time to open presents, and they hand you theirs. It's wrapped, but you can tell it's the exact size and the right weight to be a game. Your heart is pounding!
You tear the wrapping off as quickly as possible, but your heart sinks when you realize it's Some Other Game. Seeing the dejected look on your face, your parents tell you they did a lot of research and heard this game is really good, and smile as they encourage you to give it a try. You guess the game does look pretty good, even if it wasn't the one you wanted. You guess they probably just didn't know how much you wanted Super Awesome Game.
Then they hand you one last surprise present, something long and cylindrical. You unwrap it and realize it's a poster. When you uncoil it, you realize that it's a poster of Super Awesome Game.
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^Then your parents laugh at you and tell you that they cannot purchase that game for bullshit reasons like money or whatever and decide to smush it in your face by hanging the poster in your bedroom.
(at least that's what the inclusion of Geno and K.Rool costumes feel like to me. Honestly, I don't see how much DIFFICULT it would have been just to make both of them as clones and call it a day. K.Rool perfectly fits as a Dedede clone and Geno you can make as a Ness clone or something).
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My thoughts on the matter are, as I told one of my coworkers today, yes, Corrin's blatant advertising, but without Melee Fire Emblem might not've come to the west at all, so Sakurai can put as many Fire Emblem characters in there as he wants.
I am however rather perplexed that the Inklings didn't get in though. I'd figured them to be shoo-ins given Splatoon's success. Probably have to wait for Smash 5 for that, I suppose.
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I would try to explain but I think it's pointless; you really don't get it XD. Let me just try an example to see if you can grasp the feeling that happens.
I'm sorry, I'm just trying to understand each side in this XD
Let's say you're dying to get the next Super Awesome Game. It's something you've wanted for a long time, but you just can't afford it. Today is your birthday. You're really nervous, because you're really really hoping your parents bought it for you. You've talked about the game a lot, so you're hoping they got the hint. Finally it comes time to open presents, and they hand you theirs. It's wrapped, but you can tell it's the exact size and the right weight to be a game. Your heart is pounding!
You tear the wrapping off as quickly as possible, but your heart sinks when you realize it's Some Other Game. Seeing the dejected look on your face, your parents tell you they did a lot of research and heard this game is really good, and smile as they encourage you to give it a try. You guess the game does look pretty good, even if it wasn't the one you wanted. You guess they probably just didn't know how much you wanted Super Awesome Game.
Then they hand you one last surprise present, something long and cylindrical. You unwrap it and realize it's a poster. When you uncoil it, you realize that it's a poster of Super Awesome Game.
Okay, it's like rubbing salt into the wounds. Gotcha. If I was the kid in the situation, I would definitely turn to my parents in disbelief.
I mean….as long as we can agree the parents aren't staring back with a devilish sneer, laughing at your disappointment, moreso that they....wanted to make you happy regardless, but kinda missed the mark. The child just expected more (or less?) out of the situation.
Or am I still not getting it?
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Well on SOME level they're making the conscious, informed decision not to give you what you want. The poster (or Mii outfit) is a reminder that they're aware of your preferences but will not go along with them. It is at best a misguided attempt to say "well you didn't get what you wanted, but can't this cheer you up a little?" but all you see is the fact that it's just a pathetic shadow of the real deal.