Ever since the meeting with the Five Elder Stars with Akainu in the Dressrosa arc, I keep wondering if the Elder Stars are just figure heads and that it's really the World Nobles calling the shots.
Who is really in charge of the WG?
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It is interesting to consider what the relationship between the CDs and the Gorousei is. I think the latter are still the supreme power, but clearly they are forced to keep the CD happy. But why exactly? Do they really want to or are they forced to? I think we'll find out more about this as time goes on. We haven't seen much of the CDs yet so I'm guessing we'll find out about this some time in the future. I don't think there's that much to say about it yet.
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Tenryuubito are just manchilds, Aliens are calling the shots.
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I always thought the Celestials were the greatest Authority, im surprised this was not set in stone. It could be like this, Celestial dragons(CP0)/Five elders(Ciper pol 1-9 and shikabukai)/ Chief or supreme commander of navy or whatever his rank is Kong/ Fleet admiral navy Akainu/ Allied nations royalty / Admirals/ vice Admirals= nobles like sabo parents? ect something like that. its possible that there might be a formidable prominent Celestial dragon(family).
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what makes you think the Gorousei aren't celestial dragons
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The lack of space suits, maybe?
Do we have any proof that the CDs wear those space suits while they're comfortably in their own rooms? They wear them so that they don't have to breathe the same air as the common folk, so they may not wear them if they don't come into contact with anyone but Nobles and other important folk like Akainu.
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The Elder Stars are the final authority, top of the chain.
The Celestial Dragons are spoiled manbabies that don't actually do much of anything in the government from what we see.
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It seems even they cater to the whims of the Celestial Dragons which is why Doflamingo can get away with a lot of his actions.
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They also lack that hook hair.
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What if…. there IS someone above the Gorosei and its the person that had the Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation??? :ninja:
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What if…. there IS someone above the Gorosei and its the person that had the Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation??? :ninja:
On one hand, you'd think they'd be mentioned by now, at least, off-hand. On the other, there was the sudden reveal of CP0.
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Okay, time to gets serious, this thread exists for a reason:http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=32320
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What if…. there IS someone above the Gorosei and its the person that had the Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation??? :ninja:
Please let it be a reeeeeally hot random rabbit goddess!
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what makes you think the Gorousei aren't celestial dragons
Because the Gorosei are secretly reptilians.
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The lack of space suits, maybe?
The space suits aren't some mandated uniform lol. They're a thing the Dragons wear because they have their heads so up their asses about being better than normal people.
Now imagine a Dragon or several who aren't stupid baby spoiled children. Why would they wear that crap?–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It seems even they cater to the whims of the Celestial Dragons which is why Doflamingo can get away with a lot of his actions.
Throughout history you see lots of political systems where on one hand you have the top boss, and while he's (or occasionally she's) in charge you still have a large group of nobility beneath them that holds their own degrees of power and influence. The King may be the King, but nobles can cause lots of headaches and problems nevertheless.
So I don't think it's that the Elders are below the Dragons exactly, but that the Dragons hold enough power in their number that they still have to be considered in decisions.
For a really really rough imperfect comparison….think of like the president versus congress. -
@Cyan:
The Elder Stars are the final authority, top of the chain.
The Celestial Dragons are spoiled manbabies that don't actually do much of anything in the government from what we see.
Dofla called the Elder stars "puppets of the tenyruubito" after getting captured. That is one of the reasons why we have this thread, cause that turns the table over.
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Dofla called the Elder stars "puppets of the tenyruubito" after getting captured. That is one of the reasons why we have this thread, cause that turns the table over.
This was addressed in an earlier thread. That all other dialogue doesn't suggest that, that that one line comes off more like Akainu insulting them.
Kind of like if he had said "YOU GUYS SURE ARE WHIPPED, WHO WEARS THE PANTS IN THIS GOVERNMENT??".
The implication that the person in charge is being pulled around by someone who is supposed to be lower than them. -
I thought that translation was it was CP0 who were being referred to as the CD's puppets?
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@Bartholemew:
Please let it be a reeeeeally hot random rabbit goddess!
But we already have Carrot for the furries lol
On a serious note, idk I just threw it out there you never know. I mean what if there was a misunderstanding or the majority vote didn't come thru or one undecided, (w.e. situation ) who would control them? C.D.'s seem to influence a lot but do they have the power to even OVERRULE them???
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Throwing out a random guess, but I'm gonna say Makino is the real head of the government.
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I think the gorosei is incharge of the WG, and the tenryubito have something like a parlament, and the CP0 is an especial agency that only receives orders from these parlament. Also the 5 elders are a special kind of CD that know the truth of the void century
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The space suits are only worn when they are walking among the unwashed masses of the WG's territories. Among their own kind and in their own "holy" cities, they don't bother with that kind of garb.
The Dragons clearly hold power at least near the top. Some are high-born idiots, but others are very shrewd power-mongers. However, it is possible that the success of the WG system has made the CDs too complacent over the years…
Now as for who is "in charge" of the WG, that role is clearly in the hands of the Five Elder Stars. It is unknown if they are Celestial Dragons themselves, but they clearly cater to them in their desired role as demi-gods. These guys also don't seem to exist in any typical chain of command and can be assumed to be appointed by the CDs (if they are appointed at all). Now do the CDs have a separate organization that is keeping tabs on the Elder Stars and the world at large? Who knows. Cipher Pol may hold some key to this.
Also, it is unknown if the power of the CDs is purely political or economic. Perhaps they a different sort of leverage against the rest of the world...
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@Mr.:
The space suits are only worn when they are walking among the unwashed masses of the WG's territories. Among their own kind and in their own "holy" cities, they don't bother with that kind of garb.
Just to make sure everyone has this clear, we do need to remember that there are a tonne of slaves at Mariejoa. Those are also commoners, so the CDs would presumably wear the space suits around them as well. So the actual space in which they would not have to wear them becomes very limited. Hence why I was reluctant to say "while they are in Mariejoa" in my earlier post (second post of the thread) and just went with "their own rooms". Not sure if we've ever seen servants around the Gorousei so I don't know how they relate to this story.
Of course it could just be that the Gorousei don't care about breathing the same air as a few servants. Not every CD has to be as puffed up as most are.
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We know from Mjosgard father, that they don't always wear their space suites at home. Nor to they appear to wear them around slaves, well Mjosgard's father didn't anyway.
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What if…. there IS someone above the Gorosei and its the person that had the Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation??? :ninja:
What if all 5 of them had Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation, and are more than 500 years old?
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What if all 5 of them had Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation, and are more than 500 years old?
I already heard of that one and yeah it is possible but in that case it would be more than 800-900 yeas old as the VC was around that time. But the thing with that theory would be that, if its one PYO (perennial youth operation ) per Op user, then it would take decades if not centuries to try and do the 5. It takes wisdom and an extensive amount of training and knowledge for that.
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What if all 5 of them had Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation, and are more than 500 years old?
I'm glad this theory is starting to catch on more widely.
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The Celestial Dragons as Doffy said are the rulers of this world. They are free to do as they please, every country has to pay the heavenly tribute. I always assumed the Gorosei are celestial dragons too, but…..now....what power do they have? How powerful are they?
We know there is a national treasure within Mariejoa which they control that allows them power to rule the world ( as per what Doffy said ).....that has to be in play too....why they've held on to power for that long.
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As I understand it, the Gorosei and the Kings of the World Government are akin to an almost-feudal system. The Gorosei are the proverbial King in this situation, and the indivudal Kings are akin to lords and nobles, essentially land-owning vassals. And the Reverie is sort of like Parlament, but only having the House of Lords.
The Tenryubito are an aristrocracy higher then the Kings, but centered only in the capital, and with minimal involvment with politics.
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We all know the only real answer…..<
! >! Pwngoat[hide] [/hide]
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! >! >!
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I already heard of that one and yeah it is possible but in that case it would be more than 800-900 yeas old as the VC was around that time. But the thing with that theory would be that, if its one PYO (perennial youth operation ) per Op user, then it would take decades if not centuries to try and do the 5. It takes wisdom and an extensive amount of training and knowledge for that.
It could somehow tie in with the Void Century in which 5 highly skilled doctors of the "old world order" were chosen to sacrifice themselves one after the other for these 5 dudes, who could have been five separate allied kings or emperors during that time deemed worthy of such a sacrifice.
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Another issue I have with Dressrosa. Doflamingo really didn't do a good job as villain. For someone who wanted the immortality, he didn't prepare himself very well. He really should have a squad of highly skilled doctors, ready to eat the fruit and die for him, in case Law, for some unbelievable reason, might not want to do it.
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I would say it's the Gorosei who act as the government's will and that the Tenryubito is basically like a senate that doesn't do anything for anyone, while at the same time being lobbyists and racketeers ( if such a thing could be imagined ). They really don't serve any purpose as far as managing stuff goes ( at least from what we've seen ) they are just filthy rich bullies who can do whatever they want at any time. I can't imagine them making decisions as far as military budget, taxes and so on and so forth.
Which in turn really makes me wonder why in the world the Tenryubito are still around. Given that the Gorosei at the very least seem to be quite pragmatic and intelligent, honoring the traditions of the Tenryubito makes little sense really.
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There's most likely a while CD that's higher than everyone and is essentially the the most supreme of the CDs. He's not a bumbling Idiot like the CDs we've seen, and thus calls the shots.
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16 chars of
Palpatine
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@Bartholemew:
Another issue I have with Dressrosa. Doflamingo really didn't do a good job as villain. For someone who wanted the immortality, he didn't prepare himself very well. He really should have a squad of highly skilled doctors, ready to eat the fruit and die for him, in case Law, for some unbelievable reason, might not want to do it.
No one is perfect man.
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What if all 5 of them had Ope no mi Perennial Youth Operation, and are more than 500 years old?
They do seem to need Bonney for something tough.
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Hope Akainu has a plan to take the lead, it just doesn t feel right that a badass like him is under CDs and Gorosei and plans to stay that way.
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I would say it's the Gorosei who act as the government's will and that the Tenryubito is basically like a senate that doesn't do anything for anyone, while at the same time being lobbyists and racketeers ( if such a thing could be imagined ). They really don't serve any purpose as far as managing stuff goes ( at least from what we've seen ) they are just filthy rich bullies who can do whatever they want at any time. I can't imagine them making decisions as far as military budget, taxes and so on and so forth.
Which in turn really makes me wonder why in the world the Tenryubito are still around. Given that the Gorosei at the very least seem to be quite pragmatic and intelligent, honoring the traditions of the Tenryubito makes little sense really.
One thing we can say for certain is that the Gorusei are steadfast conservatives.
Though they're pragmatic ones, pragmatic conservatives can still have strange soft spots for really old traditions.
Or perhaps in their minds the ancient traditions being maintained itself is part of keeping absolute stability in the world. A worry that any crack in the status quo is a bad crack.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Game:
There's most likely a while CD that's higher than everyone and is essentially the the most supreme of the CDs. He's not a bumbling Idiot like the CDs we've seen, and thus calls the shots.
Yes, and that characters name is the Gorusei.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@uniaka:
Hope Akainu has a plan to take the lead, it just doesn t feel right that a badass like him is under CDs and Gorosei and plans to stay that way.
While I vehemently disagree with positive feelings toward Akainu (unless you think he's cool as a villain of course) I think you may be on to something with the idea that Akainu might be the sort of pull a coup.
Ultimately I'm conflicted on that.On one hand: Akainu really seems the perfect profile of a coup leader. The leader of a government's military, arrogant, fanatical, strong? If he was the head of the armed forces in any real world country I'd be warning the heck out of that country's government.
On the other hand: I do think the Gorusei are more substantial characters then they may seem so far. The idea that they're the same people whove been ruling the WG since the Void Century ended almost needs them to be much more than just stodgey old men to be pushed aside. They may even be combat ready themselves, or at least at one time.
A compromise between these ideas would mean that if Akainu were to pull a coup it would have to happened VERY late in the plot. Possibly in the very final arcs after Raftel. Allowing us to get to really know and explore the Gorusei's characters first. I could see them as sort of tragic villains, and we'd be sad a bit to see them go but it would have in effect been their own fault. Deserved on some level. One wonders if they themselves stabbed anyone in the back if they're from the Void Century.
The coup could serve also as the catalyst for the Marine civil war so many of us expect. -
@Monkey:
One thing we can say for certain is that the Gorusei are steadfast conservatives.
Though they're pragmatic ones, pragmatic conservatives can still have strange soft spots for really old traditions.
Or perhaps in their minds the ancient traditions being maintained itself is part of keeping absolute stability in the world. A worry that any crack in the status quo is a bad crack.This is just my little take on the prevalent theory of the Gorosei being 5 of the 20 Kings that formed the WG, but let's say after all the other kings died, the Gorosei come up to their heirs (And presumably even their own descendants) and pitch them the idea that in return for the heirs giving up their seats on the ruling council, they will be given unlimited wealth and power, and the like. Eventually, the heirs agree and as they and their sons and so on and so forth slides further and further into decadence and indolence, the Gorosei have ruled the WG ever since, letting the now-modern day Tenryubito continue to have their ancestor's privileges to keep them away from trying to regain their previous power. Essentially, distracted by their luxury.
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I'm surprised to see no strong CDs yet other than Doffy who is a pirate. I mean like still living in Marjeois and be super strong.
I guess they're spoiled with the WG/Marines at their fingertips and all have become lazy. It would be cool to see strong CDs who can hold their own in battles. If not, then how did they win the war back then if they have always been weak..with the use of ancient weapons only? or some shyt lol
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Their ancestors were capable while their descendants have become lazy and pampered.
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@Buggy:
I'm surprised to see no strong CDs yet other than Doffy who is a pirate. I mean like still living in Marjeois and be super strong.
I guess they're spoiled with the WG/Marines at their fingertips and all have become lazy. It would be cool to see strong CDs who can hold their own in battles. If not, then how did they win the war back then if they have always been weak..with the use of ancient weapons only? or some shyt lol
Why would you think they would always have been weak.
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@Monkey:
One thing we can say for certain is that the Gorusei are steadfast conservatives.
Though they're pragmatic ones, pragmatic conservatives can still have strange soft spots for really old traditions.
Or perhaps in their minds the ancient traditions being maintained itself is part of keeping absolute stability in the world. A worry that any crack in the status quo is a bad crack.Right, even the most intelligent of men believe some wacky things. It could be largely related to them feeling that breaking the ties with the Tenryubito would smear their honor. Like, the council were founded by the Tenryubito's ancestors back in the day and swore to forever uphold loyalty toward them. So everybody who sign up for the Gorosei job have to swear the same. Boy, what a terrible job.
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Right, even the most intelligent of men believe some wacky things. It could be largely related to them feeling that breaking the ties with the Tenryubito would smear their honor. Like, the council were founded by the Tenryubito's ancestors back in the day and swore to forever uphold loyalty toward them. So everybody who sign up for the Gorosei job have to swear the same. Boy, what a terrible job.
So you're saying back in the day the celestial dragons had a spine? Then as time went on the Gorusai, knowing the secrets that hold society together had to continue to work for an ever-digressing noble class? But they hold onto their position because it could mean the end of the world if they don't?
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Right, even the most intelligent of men believe some wacky things. It could be largely related to them feeling that breaking the ties with the Tenryubito would smear their honor. Like, the council were founded by the Tenryubito's ancestors back in the day and swore to forever uphold loyalty toward them. So everybody who sign up for the Gorosei job have to swear the same. Boy, what a terrible job.
I'm more partial to the idea of them being intensely paranoid about altering the status quo rather than actually respecting the Dragons though.