Mangapanda sucks, what's new?
Law must look really bad if Oda didn't want us to see him this chapter.
I agree, I just can't imagine the amount of bloodloss and how weak Law might look like at the moment. The surgeon of death may not my favorite character but, when they show him in what I'm hoping will be the next chapter I'll most likely feel bad for him when I'll see him next time.
Law won't die, he probably should but Oda has made it obvious Luffy will repay his debt to Law saving his life at Marineford. Bellamy really should die, but he won't which will suck.
@The:
I won't go into detail again, but I have mentioned a few times that Doflamingo is downplayed by the fact that he is the first major villain after the time skip. This means that despite build-up, he isn't going to seem that impressive to an extent. I do look at it and see it as quite impressive actually. Despite being in a comfy position for a while, probably having done little fighting for a while, he is capable of giving Luffy and Law a hard time. This shows that before the time skip. Luffy would've stood no chance, like with Bartolomeo. He's done well overall considering everything that was against him. I think people give him less credit than he deserves, focusing on certain things.
As far as underestimating the straw hats, I think he didn't, and once again it was part of everything against him. The dwarves were ready to strike without him knowing, Sabo came in which allowed Luffy to get out of the coliseum unnoticed, Fujitora isn't really with Doflamingo, and while unfortunate, Sugar getting taken out caused a huge problem. His plan was quite good, but everything was against him after a certain point. Could the writing been executed better to show this? Absolutely. I think it's a disservice so say Doflamingo underestimated them. If anything, he overestimated his crew. Some might say it's the same thing, but I would disagree.
Not saying you can't be disappointed, because as much as I like the arc as a whole, there are flaws, but I think people focus too much on certain aspects. I might reread the arc up to this point and make a more comprehensive post on the Dressrosa thread about my thoughts.
I think Bartholomew Bear takes my point to a little bit of an extreme (though if you really feel that way it's cool Bear :P). My main concern isn't how Doflamingo's acted up until now, it's his threat level now that we're here.
I thought overall his plan wasn't bad, and yeah lots of villains do the whole "i won't underestimate" bit, but who can really plan for the Strawhats? Especially when Doflamingo has never had access to intel covering the "tactics" (I use that word incredibly loosely) of their entire group?
But his threat level now is the problem. So what if Doflamingo beats Luffy? What happens then? Does a weakened Doflamingo then get stopped by Sabo or Fujitora? My issue here is outside of Luffy's possible death, there doesn't seem to be any repercussions for what might happen if Doflamingo actually wins. Kyros makes a big deal about "will this country return to darkness?", but no. It won't. It can't. Doflamingo's entire family with the exception of Trebol has been defeated, quite thoroughly. I'm hard pressed to believe Dofla and Trebol can win back the island even if Dofla beats Luffy.
Binami's character arc is fucking amazing.
Doflamingo's entire family with the exception of Trebol has been defeated, quite thoroughly. I'm hard pressed to believe Dofla and Trebol can win back the island even if Dofla beats Luffy.
Most of the island has already turned against the Dofla family, too. And considering Sugar is out of commission, the factory now in ruins, Kyros turned back to normal…..there's no way things can go back to Dofla's favor.
Because it is insulting my inteligence.
Unless Law is dead and will stay dead. Fat chance of that happening.
Eh, it can't be insulting your intelligence in that way.
The cliffhanger is along the lines of "Is Law dead?!"
If it was "will Law stay permanently dead if he is dead at all?!", then that would be insulting to your intelligence.
It's true, it does not. However, I never stated that it was the cliffhanger that "ruined" the chapter for me. I stated that I consider the chapter bad, and in somewhat unrelated way stated that I consider the cliffhanger terrible, while formulating my full thoughts.
That the latter was the cause of the former was purely speculation on your part.
Speculation?
You posted this:
Ah, but isn't it wonderful? A good chapter, completly ruined because you know author is unwilling to break away from his established patterns?
Right after somebody was talking about how the cliffhanger was terrible bait for the established reader.
It's pretty obvious that now I've called you out on that "terrible cliffhanger" ruining the entire chapter that you've thought up more things to complain about to cover yourself.
Please don't make out that I've just jumped in with two feet for no reason.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Eh, it can't be insulting your intelligence in that way.
The cliffhanger is along the lines of "Is Law dead?!"
If it was "will Law stay permanently dead if he is dead?!" then that would be insulting to your intelligence.
And Law isn't dead. He is never going to be dead. And if he is, somehow, he will get revived.
Speculation?
You posted this:
Right after somebody was talking about how the cliffhanger was terrible bait for the established reader.
It's pretty obvious that now I've called you out on that "terrible cliffhanger" ruining the entire chapter that you've thought up more things to complain about to cover yourself.
Please don't make out that I've just jumped in with two feet for no reason.
You did. Because you assumed that when talking about established patters, I was talking only about Law.
Please wait until full analis is ready, thank you.
Trebol was like: " Factory Down? Pica down? No problem, he got Mancherry! I'm sure we placed a great bodyguard for her".
So mancherry was the last plan to restore things once every single thinga goes wrong but she was protected by…ummm who?
@uniaka:
Trebol was like: " Factory Down? Pica down? No problem, he got Mancherry! I'm sure we placed a great bodyguard for her".
So mancherry was the last plan to restore things once every single thinga goes wrong but she was protected by…ummm who?
They didn't know she will be found. Her prison was a secret but Viola found it because of her powers.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
He is never going to be dead.
And if he is, somehow, he will get revived.
Right, so you don't actually know if he's dead or not.
For the moment, he's Schrodinger's Law.
At this point, Law could either be just so near death that he appears that way, or entirely dead and in line to be revived by Manshelly.
The Cliffhnager is "Is Law Dead?!"
As we've already covered, you have no idea if he is or not.
Therefore, perfectly bloody valid cliffhanger.
You did. Because you assumed that when talking about established patters, I was talking only about Law.
I assumed that your comment about Oda being stuck in his patterns, right after a comment that fit that criteria, was in fact closely related to that comment.
I must be totally crazy to have come to that conclusion.
Please wait until full analis is ready, thank you.
If you don't want things to be taken out of context, then don't post half baked comments that can really easily be taken out of context, thank you.
Although I'm still pretty damn certain that you're covering your tracks with this one.
They didn't know she will be found. Her prison was a secret but Viola found it because of her powers.
You shall be reminded that they moved her off her secret prison, while knowing Viola was on the enemy side, to the place where they concentrated every executive and Mancherry, protected by the whole of one woman, with devil fruit powers not suited towards combat.
Most of the island has already turned against the Dofla family, too. And considering Sugar is out of commission, the factory now in ruins, Kyros turned back to normal…..there's no way things can go back to Dofla's favor.
True, even if Doffy does win against Luffy (can't see it happening), Doffy will still have to run because Kaidou will be after him. He still thinks he can put everything back together again, he doesn't realise they have lost Mansherry.
Wonder if Viola can see through kairoseki stuff. Like for example if mansherry was hidden on a kairoseki vault, would Viola be able to see if she´s inside?
Regardless I can´t believe they trusted Viola with plans and whatnot, Diamante and Mingo weren´t surprised at all about her betrayal
Most of the island has already turned against the Dofla family, too. And considering Sugar is out of commission, the factory now in ruins, Kyros turned back to normal…..there's no way things can go back to Dofla's favor.
If Mingo beats Luffy, they will take the island back. Jora explained this, they will have mansherry heal all their fallen.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
I think Bartholomew Bear takes my point to a little bit of an extreme (though if you really feel that way it's cool Bear :P). My main concern isn't how Doflamingo's acted up until now, it's his threat level now that we're here.
I thought overall his plan wasn't bad, and yeah lots of villains do the whole "i won't underestimate" bit, but who can really plan for the Strawhats? Especially when Doflamingo has never had access to intel covering the "tactics" (I use that word incredibly loosely) of their entire group?
But his threat level now is the problem. So what if Doflamingo beats Luffy? What happens then? Does a weakened Doflamingo then get stopped by Sabo or Fujitora? My issue here is outside of Luffy's possible death, there doesn't seem to be any repercussions for what might happen if Doflamingo actually wins. Kyros makes a big deal about "will this country return to darkness?", but no. It won't. It can't. Doflamingo's entire family with the exception of Trebol has been defeated, quite thoroughly. I'm hard pressed to believe Dofla and Trebol can win back the island even if Dofla beats Luffy.
I can see your point there. Doflamingo has the power threat in he can pose a challenge to Luffy. The problem does come with his threat if he did win. If Luffy didn't beat Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, or Moriah, it would end in certain doom. Here, there is still Sabo and Fujitora who could clean up. No matter how good Doflamingo is, he wouldn't be able to win. If that is what people mean, then his threat level is lowered a good bit. However, for me (since it is a Shonen Manga), most of it comes to the threat against the main protagonist. Luffy hit him with a Red Hawk and he got up with minimum damage. This shows that he is a force to be reckoned with. While Doflamingo most likely wouldn't make it out even defeating Luffy, he seems to have a good chance of beating Luffy in a fight. Only other thing is that Mansherry is at the flower gardens. Doflamingo could easily force someone to bring her to him, and get him and his crew back to full health, making it a problem for the remaining people. Yes an Admiral and Sabo is there, but against the whole crew, they would have difficulties against the top executives.
If Mingo beats Luffy, they will take the island back. Jora explained this, they will have mansherry heal all their fallen.
Mansherry has been freed but Doffy and Trebol don't know about it. There will be no going back now.
@Cyan:
Binami's character arc is fucking amazing.
I'm glad that some people appreciate it.
I'm interested in where the Dachshund goes from here, maybe he'll be allowed to redeem himself by working under the new Riku regime after the arc or will go off on his own.
What I'm really interested in still is how he lost his crew and what happened to him on Skypiea. Maybe it will come out during a conversation with Luffy after the battle because I'm sure they will have one.
And I want to see him meet Zoro.
You shall be reminded that they moved her off her secret prison, while knowing Viola was on the enemy side, to the place where they concentrated every executive and Mancherry, protected by the whole of one woman, with devil fruit powers not suited towards combat.
Mingo is not aware of the dwarves plans. They moved her just in case the factory gets destroyed, she won't go down with the factory. They are not aware that the dwarves are specifically looking for her.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
@The:
I won't go into detail again, but I have mentioned a few times that Doflamingo is downplayed by the fact that he is the first major villain after the time skip. This means that despite build-up, he isn't going to seem that impressive to an extent. I do look at it and see it as quite impressive actually. Despite being in a comfy position for a while, probably having done little fighting for a while, he is capable of giving Luffy and Law a hard time. This shows that before the time skip. Luffy would've stood no chance, like with Bartolomeo. He's done well overall considering everything that was against him. I think people give him less credit than he deserves, focusing on certain things.
He's a capable fighter, that's for sure. And that's why I really hope for the climax to turn the tables in favor of the good side for me.
@The:
As far as underestimating the straw hats, I think he didn't, and once again it was part of everything against him. The dwarves were ready to strike without him knowing, Sabo came in which allowed Luffy to get out of the coliseum unnoticed, Fujitora isn't really with Doflamingo, and while unfortunate, Sugar getting taken out caused a huge problem. His plan was quite good, but everything was against him after a certain point. Could the writing been executed better to show this? Absolutely. I think it's a disservice so say Doflamingo underestimated them. If anything, he overestimated his crew. Some might say it's the same thing, but I would disagree..
I agree that it's supposed to show that everything has turned against him and the wrting could be better. (Especially the way Sugar is written in the story.)
And I won't argue that his crew did make a lot of mistakes and he might have overestimated them. However, he is the leader. A good leader should know what his crew is capable of and what not. He did a lot of misjudgment. Especially considering he's a - if not the - underworld broker who gives a lot of people a terrible slagging off, he should be aware that there might be quite some not-so-easy-to-deal-with people who might do some investigation and end up at the tournament. Too much 'might's and 'what if's? A good strategist should consider as much of them as possible. He, for sure, isn't one.
The dwarfes? He had ten years of time to investigate what's up with these mystery fairies free-roaming around. Especially with Viola on his side. Viola… What if she just cannot tell you anything suspicious. Well, let's just be nice to her. How about asking Jora to paint a wonderful painting? Maybe something of Rebecca. But oops. Silly Jora has forgotten to depict one hand so that poor Rebecca looks crippled. Silly silly Jora... The point is he had ten years to do anything, yet he didn't manage to find out anything.
Sabo and the switching out? First, the revolutionaries appearing shouldn't be too surprising considering which illegal business he did all over the years. Secondly, Luffy is notorious to make friends with everyone. Other contestants working together with him in some way to his disadvantage shouldn't be that surprising. Especially considering it could be basically everyone with basically every hax ability you could imagine.
Fuji? A man in his position should be able to deal with these kinds of threats. And I don't mean power-wise. Instead I mean more manipulative and subtle ways to deal with him appropriately.
Sugar? Solely the fact that he relied so much on her shows how poor his long-time planning was. What if she just gets a sudden heart attack?
tl; dr
I don't like his planning skills, but I hope for a good fight and a good climax.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
Wow, I haven't written any posts in this forum in years, but I guess this is as good time to start as ever.
I actually really liked the conclusion of this chapter. It was the Jaya scene recreated but with completely different emotions behind it.
Luffy's one-hit KO was extremely satisfying to see at Jaya, with Bellamy being an annoying and cocky jerk who thought he knew how the world works and everyone who thought otherwise was an idiot, but Luffy broke all that with one punch. And I loved it, because Bellamy annoyed and frustrated me like no other antagonist before him. Now that I think about it, it's probably because I know people like him exist in real life: they live in their own little bubble, mock everyone who thinks differently than them, seem to be uneffected by all kinds of reasoning, and sometimes you just want to punch them to pop their bubble.
I guess Luffy managed to do that, since Bellamy changed. Sure, Oda could have conveyed some of Bellamy's development in a better way: I sometimes felt sympathy for him and sometimes though he was a bit too pathetic. But I like that he clearly had become more understanding of other people, and Luffy noticed that too. Luffy even started to consider him a friend. But Bellamy still kept clinging to Doflamingo, and this eventually forced Bellamy and Luffy to fight again. This time, Luffy did not want to hit Bellamy. I think it's totally in character for him to get so angry that Doflamingo basically forced him to hurt a friend. At the same time, Bellamy was even more desperate than usual. He actually looked like he wanted Luffy to beat him again, so he could maybe finally get enough sense into his head and let go of his wrong idol.
And that's what made me really like the throwback to Jaya: it showed that while the power-relations between Luffy and Bellamy hadn't changed, everything else had. Now the punch was something that Luffy didn't want to do. Bellamy understood that Luffy was completely capable of doing that, and when he finally did, Bellamy was actually thankful for it.
I understand that not everyone liked it, since the fight didn't have much focus, but for me the conclusion was actually very powerful. I think that as a whole, Bellamy's character arc has been a very nice one. Of course he's not dead, but I don't think it makes the scene any weaker. I think Oda's words in vol 4's SBS fit very well:
"In this era, people put their lives on their beliefs and convictions, and fight. When he goes into battle, Luffy is destroying others' beliefs. And when these enemies' beliefs are shattered and defeated, they feel a pain equal to death."
Mingo is not aware of the dwarves plans. They moved her just in case the factory gets destroyed, she won't go down with the factory. They are not aware that the dwarves are specifically looking for her.
At this point, it would appear he is not aware of anything.
Really now. He left the lynchpin of his entire plan protected by JORA. Just how arrogant can he get?
I think Bartholomew Bear takes my point to a little bit of an extreme (though if you really feel that way it's cool Bear :P).
May be the case. Because for me his previous actions until now also take effect into his overall threat level. I would consider him more threatening the more I am convinced he can deal with such situations.
I think Bartholomew Bear takes my point to a little bit of an extreme (though if you really feel that way it's cool Bear :P). My main concern isn't how Doflamingo's acted up until now, it's his threat level now that we're here.
I thought overall his plan wasn't bad, and yeah lots of villains do the whole "i won't underestimate" bit, but who can really plan for the Strawhats? Especially when Doflamingo has never had access to intel covering the "tactics" (I use that word incredibly loosely) of their entire group?
But his threat level now is the problem. So what if Doflamingo beats Luffy? What happens then? Does a weakened Doflamingo then get stopped by Sabo or Fujitora? My issue here is outside of Luffy's possible death, there doesn't seem to be any repercussions for what might happen if Doflamingo actually wins. Kyros makes a big deal about "will this country return to darkness?", but no. It won't. It can't. Doflamingo's entire family with the exception of Trebol has been defeated, quite thoroughly. I'm hard pressed to believe Dofla and Trebol can win back the island even if Dofla beats Luffy.
The main problem is that Oda has decided to make the anti-Aizen with Dofla, Trébol and co. They know what they know, nothing else, they don't know what they realistically have no chance of knowing, and when surprise things happen. . .well, they just happen. No one has warned them about Mansherry being no longer their captive, so they shrug off all damage caused to both the officers and the Factory cause they trully believe they'll reset them. We know they don't have Mansherry anymore, and so when they show confidence based on things we, the readers, know are no longer on their possession, it doesn't feel right. . .even though it's actually a pretty honest approach to villainy.
When Doflamingo was 100% sure no one would enter the underground port or that Luffy was clearly fighting in the Colosseum, he was perfectly allowed to think that. We, the readers, knew he was wrong from like 5-10 chapters before that, so those moments didn't feel "right".
I guess the solution would've been to have a set of fail-proof measures in case things went awry, which in the end happened to be the birdcage and. . .not much else, or just don't show the villains with a smug smile telling the heroes to despair when we knew a solution to the conflict was well underway without the main villain knowing.
And finally, yeah, Sabo and Fujitora in there is total overkill for any aspiration Dofla might have right now. Again, Mansherry must've been a pivotal part of their aspirations, cause I guess Doffy + the entire family vs. Fuji and Sabo IS also a bit too much, I guess. And in fact, I don't think they factor Sabo as a problem, more like marines and revos will eliminate each other out, which almost happened. The marines did get slightly decimated during their conflict with Sabo.
But, yeah, I think at the very least Doflamingo himself has managed to stay as a powerful threat, at least at a physical level, and the family as a whole is more memorable than people give it credit.
At this point, it would appear he is not aware of anything.
Really now. He left the lynchpin of his entire plan protected by JORA. Just how arrogant can he get?
She was like his adoptive mom. I won't usualy think that my mom will be attacked by dwarves.
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At this point, it would appear he is not aware of anything.
Really now. He left the lynchpin of his entire plan protected by JORA. Just how arrogant can he get?
Classic pride/arrogance before the fall Darth.
He has no idea that Manshelly has been freed, looking forward to seeing the look on his face when he realises.
She was like his adoptive mom. I won't usualy think that my mom will be attacked by dwarves.
Well, yes, but you don't kidnapp dwarves to use as slave labor for your plants used in illegal magical fruit trade.
…
...
...Unless you do. Then I would recommend seeing a specialist.
At this point, it would appear he is not aware of anything.
Really now. He left the lynchpin of his entire plan protected by JORA. Just how arrogant can he get?
It wasn't like Jora was standing on guard of Mansherry cell. She let Mansherry out and told her to heal the fallen officers. That doesn't look like something Mingo ordered. Seems more like Jora trying to make herself useful. And yes, Mingo is not aware of the dwarves plans which is a critical turning point in Dressrosa.
He placed Trebol, likely his best executive, chief of staff to protect sugar. I would expect he would at least place a Diamante or more lower executives to protect Mancherry, since she looks more important then sugar.
Regardless I can´t believe they trusted Viola with plans and whatnot, Diamante and Mingo weren´t surprised at all about her betrayal
Surely Viola used her power against many of Doffy's enemies, including pirates. She had no reason to betray Doffy for Luffy and Law. And Doffy had no reason to think that she would betray him for those two pirates after 10 years. And she didn't. She betrayed Doffy for Sanji. Love is always a hurricane. She was sincerely following Doffy's order before peeping Sanji's mind.
You can´t expect someone who joined your crew so you wouldn´t kill her father to be trustworthy. She was bound to betray them when the chance came. Also Gladius said she´s been acting strange since the previous day
@Bartholemew:
He's a capable fighter, that's for sure. And that's why I really hope for the climax to turn the tables in favor of the good side for me.
I agree that it's supposed to show that everything has turned against him and the wrting could be better. (Especially the way Sugar is written in the story.)
And I won't argue that his crew did make a lot of mistakes and he might have overestimated them. However, he is the leader. A good leader should know what his crew is capable of and what not. He did a lot of misjudgment. Especially considering he's a - if not the - underworld broker who gives a lot of people a terrible slagging off, he should be aware that there might be quite some not-so-easy-to-deal-with people who might do some investigation and end up at the tournament. Too much 'might's and 'what if's? A good strategist should consider as much of them as possible. He, for sure, isn't one.
The dwarfes? He had ten years of time to investigate what's up with these mystery fairies free-roaming around. Especially with Viola on his side. Viola… What if she just cannot tell you anything suspicious. Well, let's just be nice to her. How about asking Jora to paint a wonderful painting? Maybe something of Rebecca. But oops. Silly Jora has forgotten to depict one hand so that poor Rebecca looks crippled. Silly silly Jora... The point is he had ten years to do anything, yet he didn't manage to find out anything.
Sabo and the switching out? First, the revolutionaries appearing shouldn't be too surprising considering which illegal business he did all over the years. Secondly, Luffy is notorious to make friends with everyone. Other contestants working together with him in some way to his disadvantage shouldn't be that surprising. Especially considering it could be basically everyone with basically every hax ability you could imagine.
Fuji? A man in his position should be able to deal with these kinds of threats. And I don't mean power-wise. Instead I mean more manipulative and subtle ways to deal with him appropriately.
Sugar? Solely the fact that he relied so much on her shows how poor his long-time planning was. What if she just gets a sudden heart attack?
tl; dr
I don't like his planning skills, but I hope for a good fight and a good climax.
kouch_lee gave a good point already, but I'll reiterate anyways. We as readers know everything, while the characters in the story don't know everything. Some people will give Doflamingo crap for not doing certain things, or as you put it, not being an all knowing tactician. Doflamingo might know Luffy makes friends easily, and that the revolutionary army might be trying to spy, but he couldn't expect that the second in command would not only come, but replace Luffy, and wreck everything.
He definitely knew about the dwarves, but they all believed they were naïve, so they wouldn't really do anything about it. As far as Violet is concered, pretty sure no matter what they did, Violet won't stop someone from actively going against a pirate crew that destroyed her kingdom and family. Violet probably did some stuff for the family, but we can probably assume she wasn't given huge tasks that Doflamingo would consider important.
We can go back and forth about various what-ifs, but in the end we know everything, while they don't. I laughed at Trebol thinking about having Mansherry, not because he's dumb to think that, but because he doesn't know yet, and when he finds out I see him going after her.
tldr, Doflamingo planned pretty well for what he knew.
You can´t expect someone who joined your crew so you wouldn´t kill her father to be trustworthy. She was bound to betray them when the chance came. Also Gladius said she´s been acting strange since the previous day
But Viola was really doing everything according to his plan until Sanji's speech. The main reason of her betrayal is Sanji's passion. Since it was pretty unpredictable, I don't blame Doffy for including her in the plan like he probably did those past ten years.
But you are right, the plan would have been safer if Viola wasn't on the front line.
But Viola was really doing everything according to his plan until Sanji's speech. The main reason of her betrayal is Sanji's passion. Since it was pretty unpredictable, I don't blame Doffy for including her in the plan like he probably did those past ten years.
I'm pretty sure she was forced to do it, less King Riku would be killed (I believe that was explicitly stated during the flashback of the family taking over Dressrosa). She decided that Sanji (and with that his crew) could be trusted and decided to bet on them. It was a now or never situation for her.
Okay, Doflamingo vs. Luffy is being set up really well. It set a personal link for Luffy to beat up Doffy. I can't wait.
That said, aside from dealing with Bellamy, I also liked the little bit with Fujitora, Zoro's flashback to Mihawk because it established clearly that he used haki so that his sword wouldn't break and dealt with the factory being destroyed by the Tontotta. So, Trebol and Doffy left now. The colorspread also looked really nice.
Good chapter this week.
Honestly I'd rather have the King Punch blow Pica's part out of the island. It kind of felt like : "I'm saving my friend Riku but I don't care if those rocks fall on a town"
@The:
I'm pretty sure she was forced to do it, less King Riku would be killed (I believe that was explicitly stated during the flashback of the family taking over Dressrosa). She decided that Sanji (and with that his crew) could be trusted and decided to bet on them. It was a now or never situation for her.
I know and I agree, I'm arguing that it wasn't foolish on Doffy's part to include Viola in the plan.
@The:
tldr, Doflamingo planned pretty well for what he knew.
I don't expect him to know everything, but what I expect is to draw better conclusions out of that what he actually knows.
Putting Luffy - from whom you should know since Marineford that he is really good at make friends/allies - into a colliseum full of people you don't know anything beforehand. I don't see how's that anything besides really terrible planning.
It's really not far-fetched to conclude that there's a lot what can go heavily wrong here. I'm not saying he should have expected exactly what happened, but he should have expected THAT something terrible could have happened due to that plan.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
Bellamy may very well die this arc. I could see him telling Luffy what he did at Sky Island after Doflamingo falls then he just passes on. Maybe he had a change of heart when he lost his crew? Maybe he helped the sky people somehow? Maybe he was still a jerk and did something else? My point is, I really would like to see a wrap up for the Noland/Sky Island subplot.
@Galaxy:
That wouldn't make too much sense. Brook's fruit allows him to project his soul into the world as well, so it's not like the fruit disappears after the user revives (plus… the devil fruit weakness to water is still present).
Brook's fruit is a specific case. He can return from death once, but for all we know, his return might be limitless, as long as his original body is intact.
We don't know exactly how the Bara fruit and haki interact. That neither proves it or dennies it. Besides the blackening wasn't a thing back then, and the damn thing is called "the black blade", I think that it should be black in it's base state.
I'm pretty sure a Haki blade would cut Buggy same way it can cut logias. Unless Buggy manages to avoid every cut by using that ability. But in Marineford, he'd be a pile of filets if Mihawk had used Haki.
Same way Luffy can be hurt by Haki punches, even though he never stopped being rubber.
Just saying that i would take an eventual defeat like this better than an all-seeing villain losing just because of a stronger singular opponent.
But to me the best outcome would be: Doffy being immortal without his crew (just with Trebol), that has to leave Dressrosa because of Fuji/Kaido and goes around the NW mega angered and evil to do stuff while not being officially defeated. That would be so good, the island for him is lost either way because of Oda's patterns/overwhelming good guys, but i REALLY want for him to still be able to do stuff and fear him for the future.
@Bartholemew:
I don't expect him to know everything, but what I expect is to draw better conclusions out of that what he actually knows.
Putting Luffy - from whom you should know since Marineford that he is really good at make friends/allies - into a colliseum full of people you don't know anything beforehand. I don't see how's that anything besides really terrible planning.
It's really not far-fetched to conclude that there's a lot what can go heavily wrong here. I'm not saying he should have expected exactly what happened, but he should have expected THAT something terrible could have happened due to that plan.
Except 99% of those uber powerful colosseum gladiators ended up transformed into toys, forced into labor and forgoten. Basically, if it wasn't for Usopp's Tabasco face, which in itself was a strike of sheer luck, non of those would've become Luffy's ally in the all out war that followed.
We've seen CP agents, royalty, marines, pirates, revos. . .all who went to investigate the country fell to Sugar's powers, probably through the Colosseum, since it seems the go-to place to start the investigation. Doffy is perfectly aware of the kind of people he's attacting to the country, but in a decade non has ever survived, and even after the Fire Fruit attracted probably much stronger fighters than usual, they still dealt with them just fine except for Sabo, Barto and Burgess.
Buggy's fruit in avoidance of damage is closer to doppleman and moriah than luffy and a logia, the fruit not only does the defense, the body is just not there to begin with.
My conclusion is that there is not enough evidence to say something definitive.
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There's this thing called "Dramatic Irony", see.
Regarding Zoro's flashback, does this mean Mihawk's blade is permanently laced with haki(whether he's touching it or not)?
If so does this mean Zoro's black blade has always had haki placed in it?
It is going to be immensely amusing seeing Trebol’s and Doflamingo’s reaction when they realise they do not have the Mansherry imprisoned anymore. All that hope they had will come crashing down and subsequently make it likely that Trebol will attempt to retake Mansherry and use her Chiyu Chiyu no Mi powers once again to help the Donquixote Pirates cause.
Seeing as Mansherry is with Robin, Kyros and Rebecca, I can see a potential battle involving Trebol and them. Kyros would be too injured to fight and seeing how Oda had Kyros refuse having Mansherry use her abilities on him, it seems like Oda intends for Kyros to remain out of action for the rest of the arc. If Trebol really does head down to the Flower Fields to retrieve Mansherry, I can honestly see Robin and Rebecca face off against him to protect Kyros and the dwarves. Kyros did state that Rebecca doesn’t have to pick up a sword ever again, but that does not mean Rebecca can’t pick up the Kairoseki handcuffs Law left behind and attach them onto Trebol making him vulnerable for Robin to land her attacks on. Rebecca has calmed down considerable since her encounter with Diamante and I believe if another tense situation presents itself in front of her, she will be able to avoid freezing up like before. Robin distracting Trebol long enough for Rebecca to get near him would be quite awesome and give Robin a chance to highlight what she is capable of as a fighter. Once Rebecca attaches the kairoseki handcuffs onto Trebol, Robin will be able to finish Trebol off with a spectacular finishing move.
Highlighting both Robin and Rebecca in a fight, especially one involving Rebecca protecting her father through assisting Robin defeat Trebol would go a long way to balance the relationship Kyros and Rebecca have and even help to balance the arc as a whole (all Straw Hat Pirates currently on Dressrosa getting featured in a fight). Using Trebol to highlight Robin and Rebecca would certainly be the most beneficial use of his character and defeat, more so than him being taken out quickly by Luffy, Law or Sabo, which I feel would just be a waste.
Really enjoyed this chapter especially the Bellamy stuff but I don't understand why people are saying this is out of character for Luffy.
He has punched people who he's considered friends in the past but in his mind they weren't near death.
And a large part of the emotion he was feeling just now wasn't just wasn't at Bellamy but at Doflamingo's actions in relation to him if that makes Luffy's reaction more believable to you.
Either way can't wait to see more of where his character arc goes.
I'm glad you liked how things turned out! I myself found the resolution surprisingly satisfying.
@MR.:
Regarding Zoro's flashback, does this mean Mihawk's blade is permanently laced with haki(whether he's touching it or not)?
If so does this mean Zoro's black blade has always had haki placed in it?
I think it's supposed to imply that a sword imbued with haki will be as hardy/sturdy as a black blade (If you remember from Thriller Bark, one of Shusui's defining characteristics was its durability). So Mihawk is basically saying any sword can equal a black blade if haki is used properly with it.
I'm pretty sure a Haki blade would cut Buggy same way it can cut logias. Unless Buggy manages to avoid every cut by using that ability. But in Marineford, he'd be a pile of filets if Mihawk had used Haki.
Same way Luffy can be hurt by Haki punches, even though he never stopped being rubber.
Hmm dunno. The way I see it, the Gomu Gomu turns the user into an element, and rubber happens to resist punches…like magma, fire, smoke ...... Thus, Haki works on Luffy like it does with Logia. Luffy will take some damages, but he will never stop being a rubber man, even the area where he gets hit is still rubber.
On the other hand, for the Bara Bara user, the very concept of cut doesn't exist. If you can cut him with Haki, it means that his power stopped working at some point. And for me Haki doesn't work this way.
Just my interpretation.
Buggy's fruit in avoidance of damage is closer to doppleman and moriah than luffy and a logia, the fruit not only does the defense, the body is just not there to begin with.
My conclusion is that there is not enough evidence to say something definitive.
How so? Moria switches positions of himself and his shadow. I don't see the connection with Buggy's fruit.
If Haki overrides devil fruit defense, then there will be no splitting. That's how it's supposed to go based on everything we know so far. Granted, there could be exceptions, but I doubt this is one. Nobody is safe from Haki, I'm afraid (unless their Haki is stronger, obviously :ninja:).
Btw, MP says dead body, MS says lifeless corpse. Maybe it's just lifeless body, Law controled with strings while passed out or something?
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Hmm dunno. The way I see it, the Gomu Gomu turns the user into an element, and rubber happens to resist punches…like magma, fire, smoke ...... Thus, Haki works on Luffy like it does with Logia. Luffy will take some damages, but he will never stop being a rubber man, even the area where he gets hit is still rubber.
On the other hand, for the Bara Bara user, the very concept of cut doesn't exist. If you can cut him with Haki, it means that his power stopped working at some point. And for me Haki doesn't work this way.
Just my interpretation.
If someone hurts Luffy with a punch, does it mean his power stopped working at some point?
Nope, it's just that the area that was in touch with Haki didn't work.
In Buggy's case, it would mean that the surface that was cut by Haki couldn't detach because of Haki. It wouldn't mean his power wasn't working, it would mean it was bypassed.
Same would probably happen with Alvida. Or Daz Bones or Joz. Haki is just OP, and Buggy's not special.
The main problem is that Oda has decided to make the anti-Aizen with Dofla, Trébol and co. They know what they know, nothing else, they don't know what they realistically have no chance of knowing, and when surprise things happen. . .well, they just happen. No one has warned them about Mansherry being no longer their captive, so they shrug off all damage caused to both the officers and the Factory cause they trully believe they'll reset them. We know they don't have Mansherry anymore, and so when they show confidence based on things we, the readers, know are no longer on their possession, it doesn't feel right. . .even though it's actually a pretty honest approach to villainy.
When Doflamingo was 100% sure no one would enter the underground port or that Luffy was clearly fighting in the Colosseum, he was perfectly allowed to think that. We, the readers, knew he was wrong from like 5-10 chapters before that, so those moments didn't feel "right".
I guess the solution would've been to have a set of fail-proof measures in case things went awry, which in the end happened to be the birdcage and. . .not much else, or just don't show the villains with a smug smile telling the heroes to despair when we knew a solution to the conflict was well underway without the main villain knowing.
And finally, yeah, Sabo and Fujitora in there is total overkill for any aspiration Dofla might have right now. Again, Mansherry must've been a pivotal part of their aspirations, cause I guess Doffy + the entire family vs. Fuji and Sabo IS also a bit too much, I guess. And in fact, I don't think they factor Sabo as a problem, more like marines and revos will eliminate each other out, which almost happened. The marines did get slightly decimated during their conflict with Sabo.
But, yeah, I think at the very least Doflamingo himself has managed to stay as a powerful threat, at least at a physical level, and the family as a whole is more memorable than people give it credit.
Right, and I actually enjoyed seeing the "all-knowing" villain turned on his head a bit, and I liked the family as a whole (I could argue I wasn't fond of how Oda handled their individual fights, but that's really subjective at best). While Doflamingo himself is still a physical beast, I think we can agree that his perceived current threat to the country at this point in the story is no longer something palpable, I don't feel the worry that Kyros feels in regard to the country. Certainly I'm worried about Luffy, but not about Dressrosa anymore. I can't think of a single scenario where Doflamingo comes out of this with a huge win. He would have to both get Mansherry back, and find his executives bodies before anyone could get to him, and that is a bit to tall of a drink for me to swallow.
Except 99% of those uber powerful colosseum gladiators ended up transformed into toys, forced into labor and forgoten. Basically, if it wasn't for Usopp's Tabasco face, which in itself was a strike of sheer luck, non of those would've become Luffy's ally in the all out war that followed.
We've seen CP agents, royalty, marines, pirates, revos. . .all who went to investigate the country fell to Sugar's powers, probably through the Colosseum, since it seems the go-to place to start the investigation. Doffy is perfectly aware of the kind of people he's attacting to the country, but in a decade non has ever survived, and even after the Fire Fruit attracted probably much stronger fighters than usual, they still dealt with them just fine except for Sabo, Barto and Burgess.
The result here may have been not that bad, but the result doesn't necessarily determine the overall quality of a plan. Fact is that every single gladiator was a uncertain factor. And a good strategist should come up with plans with as less uncertain factors as possible.
And someone like Sabo, Barto or Burgess participating isn't really that unrealistic.
