It ends at 700.
I honestly can't disagree with what Robby said. The only thing i can say is that those characters at least got some subtle spotlight.
Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation
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One wouldn't make as many gay jokes about the serie if Kishi didn't make it so god damn easy (I wonder if Kishi is actually oblivious to all this or is deliberately being self aware in his work). It's like prohibiting one to use the words "boobs" and "Fairy Tail" in the same sentence.
PS: Apparently Nex wasn't around when that Rock Lee spinoff was going on.
I was, but the Rock Lee spinoff isn'tthe issue at hand, so I didn't bring it up. I've checked in on this thread every week since I started here, I've just had very few things to say, because my feelings are generally pretty "meh." I loved the Zabuza arc, but that's pretty much it with me and Naruto. I found the Chunin stuff to be alright, but it dropped in quality for me there. Everything else has been meh. It's been an enjoyable meh, but…
Thats because Kishi did the exact same thing for three years. Not even any rainbows of hope or 6,000,000,000 exploding tags or armadillo penises or "half our army is dead in the first day, lol" to mix it up or. Just never-ending badly choreographed war with only one character being of any importance. We'd make new jokes and observations… but there wasn't ever anything new the last several years.
Aside from the EXCELLENT Rock Lee spinoff, which we rave about and love at length, because it continues to deliver everything that we originally liked about it in the first place! Which just proves the point that we still like the world, the character, the story... it was just the execution and direction and art and overall package it turned into that we hated. But we raved at lenght about Rock Lee manga, singing its praises constantly, calling it "the Real Naruto". The spinoff is still golden! We all loved it! We were super positive and excited about that whenever it came out!
I understand that, but when a series that I liked a lot (Bleach) reaches a point like that, I say my piece and then am done with it. If someone has a good response to my post, I'll continue the discussion, but I'm not going to go back each and every week to shit on something that hasn't done anything new deserving of shit. (The Kaguya thing deserved it, just want that on record.)
Go back through the archives a couple years. Its no constant bitter bashing hatred, there were long periods of discussion, and hope, and often happy memories of the good days.
I have, which is why I specified it to this thread. The older Naruto threads tended to be a lot more fun to read through, with solid discussion. Yes, there was repetitious complaints, and things got a little circle-jerky from time to time. I look back at the whimsy of 7 and 8. Both of those threads hit twice as many pages as this thread in a matter of months, and this one has been around for three-and-a-half years. That's not a good indicator of fun and whimsy to me. I'm looking forward to, and hoping that, this one goes out with a banging musical number when it time comes, so there's that, I guess.
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It would be a good ending if any member of the side cast had gotten proper closure to their arcs prior to this, or at least something pretending to be a defining moment, prior to the Naruto/Sasuke one on one… which itself is an excessive excercise in rehash.
[. . .]
And that is horrendously unsatisfactory.
Yeah, I mostly wrote the exact same things a couple pages ago (or was it in the merge thread?), sans the Naruto-Sasuke final battle, which is spot on, of course.
Worth mentioning, as you very well know, some of these things did happen. . .on the Rock Lee spin-off. The parody gag-manga actually tackled some of the issues that the main manga should've tackled, and did it pretty damned well: see Hinata and Hanabi, Ten-Ten having a real motivation and a role model to follow, Rock-Lee facing Neji and being aknowledged, something that, as weird as it sounds, never happened in the main Naruto manga, etc. . .
BTW, Kishi DID give fights to these incredibly remarkable characters: Bandaged Samurai Shogun, Disappointing Salamander Ninja, Danzo Bodyguards A and B, Shota Sword Kid, the super charismatic brothers Gintoki and Kintoki (or whoever those fuckers were) among other late additions to the manga instead of, you know, the Konoha 11 or the Sand Siblings. And of course we got AGAIN the 4 Dead Hokage Army, further cementing the point that the new generation can take care of their own and solve their own problems instead of relying on super powered zombies to clean the world's mess. Did I just hear thematic murder? Naaaaah. . . .
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It would be a good ending if any member of the side cast had gotten proper closure to their arcs prior to this, or at least something pretending to be a defining moment, prior to the Naruto/Sasuke one on one… which itself is an excessive excercise in rehash.
Neji had his at the end of part 1, perhaps Choji as well, and I guess you can write off Gaara after he had the badger pulled out of him, but all the others were denied any purpose or role or even character development. Hinata had her love confession and sacrifice against Pain I guess, but given Naruto hasn't even MENTIONED IT in 263 chapters, (thats SIX YEARS) it doesn't really amount to much.
Where is Shino's growth? Ino's? Ten Ten? Temari? Kankuo? Hinata? Shikimaru? Kiba? A final fight for each of them to show the techniques and experience they've gained over the years? Giving their all, pushed to their limits to save the day against an enemy only they could deal with? Or even a character moment to reflect on? Each of these characters was shown, developed, given flashbacks and history, promoted as future equals and comrades in arms that would grow and aid in the years along the way, each to have unique fights and interesting battles. Ten Ten never even had a single on-camera battle in the entirety of the series!
(And no, Naruto giving them all a rasengan to throw from his overwhelming pool of demon energy, including Lee who can't handle such things, does not count.)
What of Tsunade and Iruka and Killer Bee and Orochimaru and Kabuto? What about the next generation that is supposed to surpass them?
Even the long promised "opening of eight gates to go beyond hokage level at the cost of death" was denied Lee, and was wussed out on with Guy. (Not to mention its use was ultimately pointless anyway.)
Even Sakura and Kakashi aren't getting to do anything relevant, and they're theoretically two of the four main characters..
Yes, there are still two more chapters for something to happen, but given everyone is going to have to wake up from their matrix pods and we've basically already bene promised the last chapter is a timeskip... thats really not enough space to do anything remotely satisfactory, not when the last 200 chapters were wasted not doing any of that.
Worst of all is this final battle.
The Naruto Sasuke fight is just the extension of the exact same fight they had FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY CHAPTERS AGO, and neither of the two has changed an ounce in personality or motivation since then! they got some more techniques, but you could literally cut and paste the last three pages of this battle onto their fight from part one, and aside from a line or two of dialogue, you wouldn't have missed a beat. They didn't grow, change, find reason to see things differently or have any better motivation than before or reflect on any of the things they've learned (like Jiraiya's prophecy, Itachi's sacrifice or the entirety of the war) ... it was just the exact same fight for the exact same reasons as it was when they were twelve. No more, and no less... and they even just used their old techniques!
When you can literally cut out ten years of the story and not one iota of this has changed since the fifth year of the story (and this goes for other series like Inu Yasha as well) then that's a problem.
And that is horrendously unsatisfactory.
Shikamaru was one of the few side characters that had any kind of growth in comparison to Naruto and Sasuke. He basically had a mini-arc which set him up to personally dealing with Hidan for killing his teacher, Asuma. Chouji's and Ino's growth from Asuma's death was mostly shoved off to the side until the war arc where they all dealt with his reanimated corpse. Mostly it was a Shikamaru thing though. I made a list of all significant moments the side characters went through in Part 2, that I remember.
Ino - Took over for her father during the war too telepathically communicate plans and strategy to the entire Shinobi Alliance.
Chouji - Had a "tearful moment" with having to lose his sensei a second time.
Hinata - Sacrificed herself for Naruto and was promptly forgotten about.
Shino - ???
Kiba - ???
Rock Lee - ????????
Neji - Died in the most anti-climatic way and no one seems to remeber that Neji is dead because of it.
TenTen - Hahahahahaha
So yeah, Kishi did not do their characters justice. Not at all, and notice any defining moment I posted up on that list all happened in the very last arc of the series (save for Hinata's but no one remembers that). Something is very wrong when Ino gets more development than Rock Lee.
I do not agree with your assessment on Sasuke not changing though. Yes, Naruto is the exact same. He never gives up, never goes back on his word, and he wants to be Hokage. Sasuke on the other hand has definitely changed. He went from one simple goal in life, to kill his brother and avenge the Uchiha, to wanting to become Hokage and take on the world's hatred. If you told me 6 years ago that Sasuke wanted to be Hokage and his big brother was his main influence I wouldn't have believed you because that's how drastically different he is from his past self. Yeah, he's still moody and full of himself but he has changed in some significant way.
Naruto being the Destined Child might warrant some people to say Naruto has changed, but no. He's still the very same person with the very same idealistic goal of becoming Hokage and shaping the world around him.
Everything's Eventual…
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Shikamaru was one of the few side characters that had any kind of growth in comparison to Naruto and Sasuke. He basically had a mini-arc which set him up to personally dealing with Hidan for killing his teacher, Asuma. Chouji's and Ino's growth from Asuma's death was mostly shoved off to the side until the war arc where they all dealt with his reanimated corpse. Mostly it was a Shikamaru thing though. I made a list of all significant moments the side characters went through in Part 2, that I remember.
Ino - Took over for her father during the war too telepathically communicate plans and strategy to the entire Shinobi Alliance.
Chouji - Had a "tearful moment" with having to lose his sensei a second time.
Hinata - Sacrificed herself for Naruto and was promptly forgotten about.
Shino - ???
Kiba - ???
Rock Lee - ????????
Neji - Died in the most anti-climatic way and no one seems to remeber that Neji is dead because of it.
TenTen - Hahahahahaha
So yeah, Kishi did not do their characters justice. Not at all, and notice any defining moment I posted up on that list all happened in the very last arc of the series (save for Hinata's but no one remembers that). Something is very wrong when Ino gets more development than Rock Lee.
I do not agree with your assessment on Sasuke not changing though. Yes, Naruto is the exact same. He never gives up, never goes back on his word, and he wants to be Hokage. Sasuke on the other hand has definitely changed. He went from one simple goal in life, to kill his brother and avenge the Uchiha, to wanting to become Hokage and take on the world's hatred. If you told me 6 years ago that Sasuke wanted to be Hokage and his big brother was his main influence I wouldn't have believed you because that's how drastically different he is from his past self. Yeah, he's still moody and full of himself but he has changed in some significant way.
Naruto being the Destined Child might warrant some people to say Naruto has changed, but no. He's still the very same person with the very same idealistic goal of becoming Hokage and shaping the world around him.
I'll add that Shino and Kiba both showed off new jutsu during the war. Rock has shown that he can overcome loss of a close friend. TenTen was able to use the So6P jewel fan. Hinata has shown that she's willing to sacrifice herself for naruto's sake, ultimately being acknowledged by him. Neji's death was underwhelming, he was very humble.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
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Welp, my comparison after all these years finally holds ground: This is fucking KINGDOM HEARTS.
<3
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PS4 Gamertag: GeoLigar
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I'll add that Shino and Kiba both showed off new jutsu during the war. Rock has shown that he can overcome loss of a close friend. TenTen was able to use the So6P jewel fan. Hinata has shown that she's willing to sacrifice herself for naruto's sake, ultimately being acknowledged by him. Neji's death was underwhelming, he was very humble.
I don't really count using new jutsu as a defining or growing moment for a character. Not this late in the manga when new jutsus are literally seen every chapter.
Everything's Eventual…
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Did you like the story overall? Do you think this is a fitting ending?
Fitting? Hmm, interesting question. I'd say this ending (as in the past five or so chapters) is indeed fitting for what the series has become. It's not great, but at least he's delivering on the bare necessities of what needs to be told to not piss off the fandom. By that I mean showing Naruto and Sasuke's final fight and resolution.
Regarding all other subplots going on, my issues with his handling of them go back to my personal issues with the war in general. That is that the war itself wasn't a bad idea in general, just that Kishimoto often (and throughout the story) makes poor decision as to what to show the readers and how much emphasis he places on them. Because of this the majority of the war felt like "filler" as either;
- Its introduction directly contradicted the previous continuity
- Its introduction rehashed old ground
- and/or worst, it was introduced only to never be resolved, thus being ignored.
For your first question, honestly now that all is said and done I can say that I certainly do like the story overall. Part of it could be nostalgia, or the fact that I only actively followed Naruto for one year, having caught up last October. This is unlike a lot of you who may have been following for the entirety of the war, and this may or may not affect the disparity in some of our views. Also, most of these problems I now understand about Naruto simply did not come to mind as I marathoned it last year as I was too busy trying to catch up rather than analyze the show. Now this doesn't forgive Naruto's poor storytelling but it does make it much more enjoyable for the one who's watching/reading.
Along the same lines, I caught up with One Piece in the middle of Punk Hazard and as such was able to experience Fishman Island in one go. I absolutely love FI, and in no way did I think it's pacing/flashback was an issue. There was also much less build up for Hody so there was negligible disappointment, considering I had only been invested in this particular villain for a couple days. Now, this is somewhat of a strained analogy considering inherent difference in storytelling quality between Naruto and One Piece despite their"slow paced" arcs, but my point is this.
Naruto is a highly enjoyable experience despite its (many) flaws. Though my opinion of it is somewhat negative as of late, I see myself forgiving it for a lot of its flaws when I inevitably reread the whole thing in one go, in the same way I forgive Dragon Ball and Digimon (not saying the stories are wholly comparable, just the flaws) of theirs. I'm not saying it's Berserk or One Piece quality (it isn't), just that there enough redeemable qualities to warrant me not regretting my time spent with it enough to, in the end, say that I like the story of Naruto.
3DS: 1993-7490-6080 NNID: Mickamott PSN: Mickamott
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I don't really count using new jutsu as a defining or growing moment for a character. Not this late in the manga when new jutsus are literally seen every chapter.
At least they got to showcase a little something, right? I'm not disagreeing to the fact that the konoha 11 wasn't showcased as much, but at least we got to see some.
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You know, I hate to admit it, but while I was reading this chapter, I actually felt….kind of moved. It honestly felt like Kishi was touching on some real human emotions here and for a moment I believed that, despite everything that's happened, there really was some kind of deep connection between these two characters.
But then I remembered that their "friendship" was horribly contrived and Sasuke turned into a lunatic who tried to murder people.
Also, if their hands were severed and they slept till morning, then how come neither of them have bled to death yet? And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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Fitting? Hmm, interesting question. I'd say this ending (as in the past five or so chapters) is indeed fitting for what the series has become. It's not great, but at least he's delivering on the bare necessities of what needs to be told to not piss off the fandom. By that I mean showing Naruto and Sasuke's final fight and resolution.
Regarding all other subplots going on, my issues with his handling of them go back to my personal issues with the war in general. That is that the war itself wasn't a bad idea in general, just that Kishimoto often (and throughout the story) makes poor decision as to what to show the readers and how much emphasis he places on them. Because of this the majority of the war felt like "filler" as either;
- Its introduction directly contradicted the previous continuity
- Its introduction rehashed old ground
- and/or worst, it was introduced only to never be resolved, thus being ignored.
For your first question, honestly now that all is said and done I can say that I certainly do like the story overall. Part of it could be nostalgia, or the fact that I only actively followed Naruto for one year, having caught up last October. This is unlike a lot of you who may have been following for the entirety of the war, and this may or may not affect the disparity in some of our views. Also, most of these problems I now understand about Naruto simply did not come to mind as I marathoned it last year as I was too busy trying to catch up rather than analyze the show. Now this doesn't forgive Naruto's poor storytelling but it does make it much more enjoyable for the one who's watching/reading.
Along the same lines, I caught up with One Piece in the middle of Punk Hazard and as such was able to experience Fishman Island in one go. I absolutely love FI, and in no way did I think it's pacing/flashback was an issue. There was also much less build up for Hody so there was negligible disappointment, considering I had only been invested in this particular villain for a couple days. Now, this is somewhat of a strained analogy considering inherent difference in storytelling quality between Naruto and One Piece despite their"slow paced" arcs, but my point is this.
Naruto is a highly enjoyable experience despite its (many) flaws. Though my opinion of it is somewhat negative as of late, I see myself forgiving it for a lot of its flaws when I inevitably reread the whole thing in one go, in the same way I forgive Dragon Ball and Digimon (not saying the stories are wholly comparable, just the flaws) of theirs. I'm not saying it's Berserk or One Piece quality (it isn't), just that there enough redeemable qualities to warrant me not regretting my time spent with it enough to, in the end, say that I like the story of Naruto.
This is an extremely fair conclusion. The nostalgia factor is definitely good.
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We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. In no way do I see Hashirama saying goodbye to Madara, who he always thought of as a friend, as some kind of redemption or even an attempt at a redemption. Just because there are parallels between the Uchiha amd Senju doesn't mean they've all been redeemed.
Indra was never redeemed and neither do I think was Madara.
The point is that parallels and the implications behind the Love Cancer thing insinuate that the Uchihas were not at fault. What else is Kishi trying to accomplish if that's not what he had in mind for introducing something so dumb? And the fact he has this final scene with Mad/Hash suggests that's the direction he is going with by not off screening him or just simply forgetting that he exists in general (much like Kaguya immediately after she's defeated).
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@Nex:
and this one has been around for three-and-a-half years. That's not a good indicator of fun and whimsy to me.
Actually THIS thread was closed for a while. Its been the Naruto/Bleach thread for the last couple years, which has gone through several threads each 500 pages.
It only re-split and re-opened when the end was announced three weeks ago, and it's moved about 50 pages in that time.
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Did you like the story overall? Do you think this is a fitting ending?
I'd be satisfied if Kishi somehow makes a coherent way to reveal how Naruto became Hokage (or drops this dream altogether). And no "the 10 years later and BOOM he's Hokage for no reason in the future" in one panel is not a good coherent way to show how he became Hokage material.
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I'd be satisfied if Kishi somehow makes a coherent way to reveal how Naruto became Hokage (or drops this dream altogether). And no "the 10 years later and BOOM he's Hokage for no reason in the future" in one panel is not a good coherent way to show how he became Hokage material.
If Kishi is able to write a good transitional epilogue, then that'd be most fitting. With explanations and flashback panels to balance it out.
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If you told me 6 years ago that Sasuke wanted to be Hokage and his big brother was his main influence I wouldn't have believed you because that's how drastically different he is from his past self. Yeah, he's still moody and full of himself but he has changed in some significant way.
The problem with that is… if I had told you six WEEKS ago that was the case, it wouldn't be true! His desire to be hokage literally came out of nowhere! Nowhere!!! Just to set up this final fight at the last possible second with no motivation otherwise!
Much like his flip flop to the goodguy's side after being told a story by the old hokage.
Much like his flip flop after he basically tried to kill his new teammates as he was eaten by teh darkness.
Much like his flip flop after being told a lie by Tobi.
Much like his flip flop after learning the truth about Itachi and not taking away the proper lesson from it.
Much like his flip flop when he first became impressed by Naruto.That's NOT DEVELOPMENT, that's bending to the whim of stretching out the plot.
And now, at the end of the fight, if you just read his speech, every thing he says applied to twelve year old Naruto's attitude and determination to be his friend... and nothing else from along the way. Purely the exact same things Naruto said and did ten years ago. Its not different at all. It's just pretending it is.
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This pretty much defined todays Nardo chapter.
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The trail of blood from each severed arms actually makes it seem like they're holding hands, like that image (I think it was at the end of part I) where they grab their fingers or something like that.
I thought that was pretty clear, honestly.
ED: Also, that image is pretty stupid the moment we KNOW the movie will be a canon epilogue to the manga and both Naruto and Sasuke have their arms in there, so. . .yeah. I don't think they'll have to live with a severed arms much longer.
I'm now realizing that I read this chapter with such a lack of "give a shit" that I never even registered that their blood crossed. The only thing I thought was "if you bleed from a severed arm for an entire day there would be more blood than that, right?" That's literally the only thought that was in my head.
Perhaps that says something about my reading comprehension, but I think it says more about how little Naruto's finale has made me care.
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What people coming into this thread now, or within the last six months, or who just skim it ocassionally without actually regularly reading it…
What they can't appreciate about the reaction we have, is that we didn't just jump in and bash the series for fun one day, it was a long, slow decline. We didn't overnight go "I hate Naruto now, lets make fun of it." It happened over years, more than a decade for some of us. Going from "this series is really good and I like it!" to "That arc was a little bit weak, maybe it'll be better next arc" (middle of part 2) to "wow, that arc was bad" to "holy crap this is awful" to "there is just no chance of this series ever fixing itself now" (around the Pain deus ex machina) to "is it over yet?"
And by the time we got to the obvious end arc (and we didn't know it was going to last FOUR YEARS) we'd already been committed to it for a long time. Several years of enjoyment, then several years of hope… full of apathy, but still wanting to see how it ended... and commiserating with other in just HOW bad it had gotten. Its a nice release.
The only thing I'm waiting for now, after all these years, is to send Naruto off once and for all with one final rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody at the end of this thread.
It will be grand.
It will be magical.
It will be 700 chapters in the making.
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You know, I hate to admit it, but while I was reading this chapter, I actually felt….kind of moved. It honestly felt like Kishi was touching on some real human emotions here and for a moment I believed that, despite everything that's happened, there really was some kind of deep connection between these two characters.
Oh yeah, that chapter might actually have been good, if there were some kind of build-up that actually corresponds with these expressed feelings. Like building up this connection by having way more shown missions back as Team 7.
But then I remembered that their "friendship" was horribly contrived and Sasuke turned into a lunatic who tried to murder people.
Oh yeah, and then you awake from your dreams having to face the bitter truth…
Also, if their hands were severed and they slept till morning, then how come neither of them have bled to death yet? And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
Because they are destined to live on?
And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
They celebrated Naruto's birthday?
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Fitting? Hmm, interesting question. I'd say this ending (as in the past five or so chapters) is indeed fitting for what the series has become. It's not great, but at least he's delivering on the bare necessities of what needs to be told to not piss off the fandom. By that I mean showing Naruto and Sasuke's final fight and resolution.
Regarding all other subplots going on, my issues with his handling of them go back to my personal issues with the war in general. That is that the war itself wasn't a bad idea in general, just that Kishimoto often (and throughout the story) makes poor decision as to what to show the readers and how much emphasis he places on them. Because of this the majority of the war felt like "filler" as either;
- Its introduction directly contradicted the previous continuity
- Its introduction rehashed old ground
- and/or worst, it was introduced only to never be resolved, thus being ignored.
For your first question, honestly now that all is said and done I can say that I certainly do like the story overall. Part of it could be nostalgia, or the fact that I only actively followed Naruto for one year, having caught up last October. This is unlike a lot of you who may have been following for the entirety of the war, and this may or may not affect the disparity in some of our views. Also, most of these problems I now understand about Naruto simply did not come to mind as I marathoned it last year as I was too busy trying to catch up rather than analyze the show. Now this doesn't forgive Naruto's poor storytelling but it does make it much more enjoyable for the one who's watching/reading.
Along the same lines, I caught up with One Piece in the middle of Punk Hazard and as such was able to experience Fishman Island in one go. I absolutely love FI, and in no way did I think it's pacing/flashback was an issue. There was also much less build up for Hody so there was negligible disappointment, considering I had only been invested in this particular villain for a couple days. Now, this is somewhat of a strained analogy considering inherent difference in storytelling quality between Naruto and One Piece despite their"slow paced" arcs, but my point is this.
Naruto is a highly enjoyable experience despite its (many) flaws. Though my opinion of it is somewhat negative as of late, I see myself forgiving it for a lot of its flaws when I inevitably reread the whole thing in one go, in the same way I forgive Dragon Ball and Digimon (not saying the stories are wholly comparable, just the flaws) of theirs. I'm not saying it's Berserk or One Piece quality (it isn't), just that there enough redeemable qualities to warrant me not regretting my time spent with it enough to, in the end, say that I like the story of Naruto.
Naruto is a huge turd past volume 16. I'm glad we had this discussion.
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@Monkey:
Naruto is a huge turd past volume 16. I'm glad we had this discussion.
Hoho! Classic Monkey King.
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This post is deleted!
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You know, I hate to admit it, but while I was reading this chapter, I actually felt….kind of moved. It honestly felt like Kishi was touching on some real human emotions here and for a moment I believed that, despite everything that's happened, there really was some kind of deep connection between these two characters.
But then I remembered that their "friendship" was horribly contrived and Sasuke turned into a lunatic who tried to murder people.
Also, if their hands were severed and they slept till morning, then how come neither of them have bled to death yet? And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
I don't know if you noticed, but they were battling in the morning. Then they severed their arms(not just hands), in the morning. And the chapter ended in the next morning. THEY WERE 1 ENTIRE DAY WITH THEIR ARMS SEVERED!
And of course WHAT THE HELL HAVE KAKASHI AND SAKURA BEEN DOING?
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Naruto was one of the first anime I got into. I watched this anime even before getting into One Piece. Think it was a just when the filler of pre-timeskip Naruto was nearing its end and the show was about to go into part 2 (I wonder if those filler episodes hold up or are held in a better light now knowing Kishi would never really give the spotlight to the other ninjas in part 2). Despite the dive in quality, I kept with it. Don't think I'd be invested enough to try to read or watch the show from the beginning, even just reading/watching up to the Part I, but it's been in my life all this time, whether near front and center or in the periphery. Since it has dragged on for so long I'm glad to see it end, but I'm hoping for a bland inoffensive ending than an ending that will irritate all the fans and delight all the haters. On my end, the series deserves that much at least.
For an embarrassing story, I remember that an AMV first got me really intrigued about One Piece, and it was a Luffy vs Usopp amv with Naruto's 4th ending playing in the background. Don't think I'll ever find it as that was made around 2005-2006 I think. I dunno, the song hit a melancholy tune that affected me (I just want to point out I didn't really have context for the Luffy vs Usopp fight back then nor did I really understand what the song lyrics were really about).
The only thing I'm waiting for now, after all these years, is to send Naruto off once and for all with one final rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody at the end of this thread.
It will be grand.
It will be magical.
It will be 700 chapters in the making.
Naw, attempts to recreate the what occurred around 3-5 years ago would just feel hallow. Very little has gone on lately that would indicate the magic could be done again and not feel artificial.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
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The point is that parallels and the implications behind the Love Cancer thing insinuate that the Uchihas were not at fault. What else is Kishi trying to accomplish if that's not what he had in mind for introducing something so dumb? And the fact he has this final scene with Mad/Hash suggests that's the direction he is going with by not off screening him or just simply forgetting that he exists in general (much like Kaguya immediately after she's defeated).
Kishi was never going to off-screen Uchiha Madara. He was built up as a final villain for over 300 chapters. Can't say the same for Kaguya. So yeah, he got 2 pages goodbye.
The whole love cancer thing was used to explain the deeper mechanics of how an Uchiha gains a Sharingan after someone close to them dies. Yes, it can also be used as an excuse for why the Uchiha behave the way they do but then you have to look at a character like Uchiha Shisui who proves a Uchiha Clan member with a Sharingan doesn't = automatically hate filled person. Just because the Uchiha Clan is "cursed" doesn't mean they can all be redeemable. Kishi never went for that angle with Madara.
The problem with that is… if I had told you six WEEKS ago that was the case, it wouldn't be true! His desire to be hokage literally came out of nowhere! Nowhere!!! Just to set up this final fight at the last possible second with no motivation otherwise!
Much like his flip flop to the goodguy's side after being told a story by the old hokage.
Much like his flip flop after he basically tried to kill his new teammates as he was eaten by teh darkness.
Much like his flip flop after being told a lie by Tobi.
Much like his flip flop after learning the truth about Itachi and not taking away the proper lesson from it.
Much like his flip flop when he first became impressed by Naruto.That's NOT DEVELOPMENT, that's bending to the whim of stretching out the plot.
And now, at the end of the fight, if you just read his speech, every thing he says applied to twelve year old Naruto's attitude and determination to be his friend... and nothing else from along the way. Purely the exact same things Naruto said and did ten years ago. Its not different at all. It's just pretending it is.
Sasuke might be the Uchiha version of Mitt Romney but his goals and motivations have changed as the story has progressed.
http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=41343&page=134&p=3317475&viewfull=1#post3317475
That is development. I'm not debating for the quality of the development but you can't say, "The Naruto Sasuke fight is just the extension of the exact same fight they had FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY CHAPTERS AGO (this is true), and neither of the two has changed an ounce in personality or motivation since then! (not so much) "
550 chapters ago they were fighting because Sasuke was trying to leave a village. 550 chapters later they're fighting for the fate of the world. In fact, Sasuke is fighting for exact opposite thing he was fighting for in Part 1. Before, he was fighting to leave the village and grow stronger to kill Itachi. Now, he fights in memory of Itachi and is trying to honor him by becoming what he believes to be a true Hokage.
Everything's Eventual…
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I was pretty whatever about this chapter… Orochimaru can just hook these two up with new arms right?
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Orochimaru… hook up... giggle
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@Lady:
I was pretty whatever about this chapter… Orochimaru can just hook these two up with new arms right?
Naruto seems to have a new one in the movie.
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I for myself see it that way that it was an ok ending. The whole arc….eh, more lows than highs for me. The whole manga....was good till a certain point and afterwards.... I lost interest. Interest in the story, the characters and the world. It was just "there" and yet I couldn't get the same feeling of excitment and love I had once hold for it till that point. It was also when I stopped buying the volumes after noticing that I skimped through the pages instead to read them. :/
At some point I just lost the connection and care I had once held in tons for Naruto and Sasuke (didn't had much for Sakura though, mostly pity for that girl. True shame her character never saw the light it needed to bloom. It was buried in tons of shi-fertilizer.) and with them the whole manga sort of lost the entertainment and excitement it had when they were still training to become Ninjas.I dunno, if I look back with it as nostalgic I see a lot of good points I had once enjoyed. if I look back at it with my disappointment I see lots of bad stuff that drowned those good points for me over the years.
I don't regret reading Naruto though I do regret it didn't ended sooner but that's the mangaka's decison how long a story goes.
I am glad that Naruto leaves, I don't wanna imagine how this would have go on for another 100 chapters and I guess neither could Kishi, and that it leaves with an ending I couldn't quite enjoy, mostly rolled my eyes at it^^, but one I can accept as fitting to it. With one of the big three leaving we get a new "manga era", at least a new place in Jump that needs somebody to fill it out, and it probably will put Bleach also on the spot. I can see Kubo trying to reach 700 chapters as well, but I am not so sure if he will really be able to reach them. But Bleach is another story.
I hope though that Naruto ends for good and does not make a return as Naruto 2 or whatever... <_<
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I spent a lot of time and years on Naruto. I was pretty apathetic for over half of it but I can't hate it, and I don't feel I wasted my time (mostly). 2~5 minutes a week adds up but I probably would have read something worse in its place. I stopped trying to find anything good to read 2~3 years ago.
To me Naruto is a good childhood friend and over the years the differences have piled up and I no longer see eye to eye with it. But that doesn't mean I hate it; well, in my case I've never hated anything fiction (maybe Wolf Guy but even then the furthest I would go is call it rapey bullshit.)
The ending is about as good as one could have hoped for at this point. That doesn't mean it's good but… it's Naruto, I guess.
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@James:
I can see Kubo trying to reach 700 chapters as well, but I am not so sure if he will really be able to reach them. But Bleach is another story.
Whoah there, 100 more chapters of Bleach? As in roughly two more years? Say it ain't so. I'm guessing half that at about 650, ending within a year from now. Simply because a prior announced/planned "Final Arc" shouldn't last 4+ years.
But then again you're right, Bleach is another story.
3DS: 1993-7490-6080 NNID: Mickamott PSN: Mickamott
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So uh, no kissing ?
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I'm surprised at the amount of love this place still has for the supporting cast, especially since it's based entirely on nostalgia or Spring Time and so hasn't really been relevant for several hundred chapters or like 6+ years in the actual manga. As someone who didn't read Spring Time I really don't care that Choji or Ten Ten or Shino never got there development arcs or whatever because they've basically not existed for so long they don't even matter. They're barely characters at this point. Just filler delaying the ending of the manga.
That being said even the main characters don't make any sense. So we're actually going to get our Sasuke redeemed story. He's probably going to be joint Hokage or something. I hope they both die. That would at least surprise me.
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And of course WHAT THE HELL HAVE KAKASHI AND SAKURA BEEN DOING?
Nothing. Do you think Kishi would actually give Sakura something to do? Kishi would rather die let his son, Sasuke, die than be healed by a filthy, useless woman. He's the #1 most misogynistic writer in Jump.
As for Kakashi, he's gne to play with Obito and Rin in whatever semi-dead zone they're in.
Naw, attempts to recreate the what occurred around 3-5 years ago would just feel hallow. Very little has gone on lately that would indicate the magic could be done again and not feel artificial.
We could come up with a new song… come on guys... this is literally the only reason I didn't drop Naruto…
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I'm surprised at the amount of love this place still has for the supporting cast, especially since it's based entirely on nostalgia or Spring Time and so hasn't really been relevant for several hundred chapters or like 6+ years in the actual manga. As someone who didn't read Spring Time I really don't care that Choji or Ten Ten or Shino never got there development arcs or whatever because they've basically not existed for so long they don't even matter. They're barely characters at this point. Just filler delaying the ending of the manga.
That being said even the main characters don't make any sense. So we're actually going to get our Sasuke redeemed story. He's probably going to be joint Hokage or something. I hope they both die. That would at least surprise me.
The love we have for the side characters stems from the untapped potential they showed in Part 1 where they were shown as young and talented budding ninja ready to grow into young adults with their own ideas, dreams, relationships and goals to become powerful assets for the village or their clans. They could've played an important role in furthering the reputation and prestige of Konoha and taken some of the spotlight off of Naruto and Sasuke with their own side missions with the added bonus of their very own character development. They never lost that potential. They just lost the author's attention.
Kishi didn't appreciate his side characters but that doesn't mean we lost that appreciation.
Everything's Eventual…
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I don't know if this has been reported here yet, but there's gonna be a Chapter 700 in full colour (so two chapters next week): http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/10/naruto-manga-700-officially-colored/
Also some art for the villain in the movie: http://www.saiyanisland.com/2014/10/the-last-naruto-the-movie-toneri-otsutsuki-new-scenes-art/
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did a 7 year old write this chapter
DAWWGHHHH!!! I WAS ALONE!!!! THENZ I FOUNDZZ U!! AND U WERE ALL ALONE!!! WE WERE ALL ALONES TOGETHER!!! AND THAT MADE ME FEEL ALONE!!!!
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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did a 7 year old write this chapter
DAWWGHHHH!!! I WAS ALONE!!!! THENZ I FOUNDZZ U!! AND U WERE ALL ALONE!!! WE WERE ALL ALONES TOGETHER!!! AND THAT MADE ME FEEL ALONE!!!!
Oooohhhh~ SOMEONE NEEDS A HUG!!!
Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/pomeranianhero
deviantart: http://pomeranianhero.deviantart.com/
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Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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The love we have for the side characters stems from the untapped potential they showed in Part 1 where they were shown as young and talented budding ninja ready to grow into young adults with their own ideas, dreams, relationships and goals to become powerful assets for the village or their clans. They could've played an important role in furthering the reputation and prestige of Konoha and taken some of the spotlight off of Naruto and Sasuke with their own side missions with the added bonus of their very own character development. They never lost that potential. They just lost the author's attention.
Kishi didn't appreciate his side characters but that doesn't mean we lost that appreciation.
ehhhh they weren't all that fleshed out in Part 1 though. Neji yes. Rock Lee, yes. Hinata maybe. Shikimaru not rly. Ino, not sure if you can call female jealousy over a boy they know nothing about a personality. Then there's the rest.
Most of their problems were kind of like HS drama that they should have and obviously did grow out of by the start of Part 2 but it's not like all or even most of them were deep compelling characters. I just don't see at what point you all came to appreciate them all so much when they were really just background characters having side fights against forgettable villains. Neji and Rock Lee I can understand. Hinata gets some attention only because she's been so infatuated with Naruto you think he would respond to it by now. Shikimaru had a cool fight in part 2 but not really an arc, by then he was already the best ninja of his class, his fight just showed why.
Kiba. Choji. Shino etc. None of them were set up as talented or interesting characters. It would have been nice to see what they learned but as far as their characters go, completely forgettable.
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all i ever wanted wuz a fwiend!!! Will u be my fwiend!!!!!!! :cwy:
Only after we have a big super battle for no particular raisin!
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Oh, no more ghost pages…
EDIT: Spoke too soon... -
When I first read the chapter in mangapanda (with their crappy quality), I thought Naruto and Sasuke's arms got fused in a mess of burnt tissues and coagulated blood, and Naruto made the comment about Sasuke moving because if he did, both would die from loss of blood.
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Whoah there, 100 more chapters of Bleach? As in roughly two more years? Say it ain't so. I'm guessing half that at about 650, ending within a year from now. Simply because a prior announced/planned "Final Arc" shouldn't last 4+ years.
But then again you're right, Bleach is another story.
Didn't Naruto's "final arc" also lasted way longer than anybody had expected it? :P
I meant Kubo will most likely want to reach 700 chapters to show that his manga is in the very same league like Naruto. I doubt he will get there though, at least not with the quality he has delievered so far in his final arc. Somewhere half-way during those 100 chapters he has planned, Jump will say "dude, we need to talk" and then Bleach will end around 650 chapters. At least I hope it does, another 2 years with going two steps forward and then two steps backwards in progress every couple chapters….horrible image... -
"Given that the original work (manga) and the new movie are connected as much as possible, I would appreciate if you'll go to see the movie after you have finished to read the manga. (It's OK even you haven't read it! AHAHA). This movie is, putting it straight, about love! I never have a movie about it, so please enjoy Naruto.
Author: Kishimoto Masashi"Awesome… Kishi is a smart business man... He knows that the paring wankers will open their wallet to see this shit... That's why he won't show it in the manga.
Next movie will be about Kakashi and his true face... After it TenTen and the Rikudou tools... and so on
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm really sorry... Big pics under the spoiler... From the latest trailer... And one thing I like. My Naruto man Kakashi is the fucking.. look yourself
!
–- Update From New Post Merge --- -
ehhhh they weren't all that fleshed out in Part 1 though. Neji yes. Rock Lee, yes. Hinata maybe. Shikimaru not rly. Ino, not sure if you can call female jealousy over a boy they know nothing about a personality. Then there's the rest.
Most of their problems were kind of like HS drama that they should have and obviously did grow out of by the start of Part 2 but it's not like all or even most of them were deep compelling characters. I just don't see at what point you all came to appreciate them all so much when they were really just background characters having side fights against forgettable villains. Neji and Rock Lee I can understand. Hinata gets some attention only because she's been so infatuated with Naruto you think he would respond to it by now. Shikimaru had a cool fight in part 2 but not really an arc, by then he was already the best ninja of his class, his fight just showed why.
Kiba. Choji. Shino etc. None of them were set up as talented or interesting characters. It would have been nice to see what they learned but as far as their characters go, completely forgettable.
That's why we expected Part 2 to flesh them out and Shino and Chouji showed great potential in the Sasuke Retrieval arc
The lot of them are wasted opportunities.
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So adult Sasuke becomes Byakuya. Seems about right.
