And now they're apparently starting to move on Baghdad and basically everything's going to hell again.
Random News Article Discussion II
-
-
I don't mean to be fucked up but I am surprised it happened faster than it did. I mean, the U.S. got rid of Saddam, who was keeping things together in his own, brutal, fucked up way and supposedly opposed al Queda, got in a war against al Queda in Iraq because Saddam is gone, create a poor government and even poorer army to protect its country, and now that we left it so the extremists are taking over because there isn't a strong central power to repel it.
Everything that is happening now is the classic definition of a power vacuum, where you get rid of the established power but fail to fill that giant hole and as a result, all the crazies come out and think they can be that new established power and will do anything to make that happen.
Power vacuum isn't what's up. The real issue is just multiple levels and layers of fucked up.
Fact is, the Baghdad government has plenty of support and backing in the south. Because that's where the Shia dominate and mostly live.
The inverse of this is that they had the opposite in the north and west, where the Sunni Arabs live mostly.
ISIL/ISIS are Sunni fundamentalists.The current Iraqi government is run by a guy who has done a terrible job if even trying to rule an essentially multi-religious/ethnic state. But really what were the chances that anyone well meaning on that topic would come to power.
Saddam's rule was the reverse in that sense that he had the Sunni Arabs as HIS people, and favored them and repressed the Shia.
Then there's the Kurds who while Sunni, are more secular while being all about nationalism of their own group. Saddam lost control of their region after commiting war crimes galore to keep them in check.
In terms of Shiite relations, Saddam is the dude who invaded Iran and started a decade long war that went absolutely nowhere.Saddam was not some sort of Tito.
Iraq has always been a poorly thought out set of borders, same with Syria. About as random and thrown together as most African countries.
What's going on in both countries is the domineering coastal Shiite governments are now in war with their large marginalized interior Sunni populations, while fringe areas of Kurds back away with hopes of independence.Partition is the best of options at this point. Which I think the Shia will find in the end is pretty cool for them, though I worry for any Sunnis left in their portion (which would involve Baghdad).
The Kurds have deserved independence for eons, and the Iraqi portion has always been a hop from being actually independent. Way more of a unified functional success than the Arab lowlands post-Saddam.
But I can't see the Sunni portion working. The best case is it works as a poverty stricken landlocked place. Worst case it becomes the same, except ruled by either a group like ICIL, or outright anarchy.The thing is this is going to effect the Syrian war big time. It's possible in the most extreme case that we see Syria and Iraq turn into four different countries.
With the Sunni interior of Syria uniting with the interior of Iraq.
Syrian Kurdistan uniting with Iraqi Kurdistan.
An Iranian aligned satellite state, the Shia part of Iraq.
And Assad's private Alawi playground whose borders will be decided by the continuation of the war in Syria.There's a lot of suck here. But I guess some silverlinings might be.
-Conflict quarantined to a restive miserable interior
-Iran US interests aligned militarily might lead to better relations??
-Might do the same for Turks and Kurds.
-Assad's Syria turned into weaker rump state on the defense forever, leaving Lebanon more free from their influence.
-Morbid as it may sound, just about everything going on right now is AWESOME for the Kurds. -
That's freaking abysmal.
-
I like how some of the usual suspects are blaming this on Obama withdrawing the troops lol.
Yes random republican talking heads, I'm sure the American public would love for us to still be pointlessly serving as meat shields forever.
Also they don't seem to realize this is happening because of the Syrian Civil War.
All our being there would change is that these guys would be currently engaged in horribly bloody warfare with us, not that it wouldn't have happened.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/13062014
Rest of Iraq:
Kurdish Iraq:
-
Don't know what is more fucked up at this point, Syria or Iraq. In Syria we got Assad fighting against FSA and ISIL and multiple splinter groups, its like massive Free For All war with no clear frontlines and flash fires of chaos bursting all over country, recently Assad has managed to somewhat stabilize his position because opposition is extremely divided into multiple groups and factions who fight each other as they fight Assad.
Iraq is dividing into smaller countries and seems that only a powerful leader or dictator can hold Iraq together. ISIL is pushing deeper into Iraq with an unchecked arrogance and initiative. More success ISIL gains more famous and popular it will become.
Most ironic scenario would be having Iran, Israel, USA, Assad and Iraq all fighting against ISIL, this could be possible scenario if ISIL continues its advantage unchecked and causes even larger geopolitical unstability.
-
Don't know what is more fucked up at this point, Syria or Iraq.
Syria by a mile.
Maliki may be a strongman jackass, but so far he's not a Saddam esque barbarian like Assad.
Plus the Kurdish region is pretty stable and has a strong army of it's own.Iraq is dividing into smaller countries and seems that only a powerful leader or dictator can hold Iraq together.
Iraq isn't even a century old as a thing. There was no precedent to such a thing ever existing on any lines.
Why does there have to be an Iraq really? If something can only be held together by a powerful dictator why should it exist at all?
Furthermore the powerful dictators didn't really work either. Revolts from one group or another have been happening since it existed. Namely the Kurds.
Saddam effectively lost control of the Kurdish regions after 1991 when NATO imposed a no fly zone.Now obviously a peaceful way to do that would be great (Czechoslovakia style), but well ISIL and their invasion seem to be forcing the fractures to their end. And in a way the Kurdish secession is looking semi-peaceful if it happens, like they just take their claim and watch as the two Arab groups fight.
ISIL is pushing deeper into Iraq with an unchecked arrogance and initiative. More success ISIL gains more famous and popular it will become.
They won't really get too much farther then they already have. The areas from Baghdad south are heavily Shia. ISIL would not be succeeding if two things weren't going for them.
1. Vague trust from the public, and a HATE for the government from the public.
2. Lack of morale among local military and militant factions.Both those won't be on their side in the Shia parts. ISIL has like literally said it will ethnically cleanse/genocide the Shia out of Iraq.
Suffice to say they will be facing intense resistance once they're outside Sunni territory.
Add on to that that Shia Iraq will be getting military support from the US (maybe) and Iran (definitely) and I can't see them getting past Baghdad.Baghdad itself is uh the question mark. It's very religiously mixed between Sunni and Shia. In a way it's anyone's game.
Which is basically grounds to intense fucked up crap soon to go down if ISIL actually reaches it. Whoever wins will not treat well the religious sect of the loser. Though far better that the government maintain control, as again ISIL is genocidal against Shia. I could still see mass flight from the city by Sunnis if the government kept the city.Even if ISIL takes Baghdad though, that would be it. They wouldn't get farther. And I doubt they'll take it.
-
I remember when Syria was big news over here. Not so much anymore. The civil war is still going on and he's winning. The last thing I heard was the obvious Asad is running for reelection and was most likely going to win, duh.
-
I remember when Syria was big news over here. Not so much anymore. The civil war is still going on and he's winning. The last thing I heard was the obvious Asad is running for reelection and was most likely going to win, duh.
No one is winning in Syria. It's been like a deadlock forever of endless violence cycles.
And uh….I'm not sure you understand dictatorship elections lol.
It was a 100% fake bit of propaganda that you see from Belarus on down to North Korea even. Aside from the more honest dictatorships like China's.
He basically just enacted a propaganda campaign to shore up his image among people still semi-loyal to him and put upon a pretend veneer of stability. -
I feel like we armed them somehow. Not that i want us to get into this situation at all but this seems like spillage from Syria.
-
@Monkey:
No one is winning in Syria. It's been like a deadlock forever of endless violence cycles.
And uh….I'm not sure you understand dictatorship elections lol.
It was a 100% fake bit of propaganda that you see from Belarus on down to North Korea even. Aside from the more honest dictatorships like China's.
He basically just enacted a propaganda campaign to shore up his image among people still semi-loyal to him and put upon a pretend veneer of stability.I know he's going to win because the whole thing is setup for him to win. That's why I waved it off as ridiculous because the whole thing is. His announcement for reelection though I saw more as a message to the rest of the world saying, 'I'm here to stay.'
As for who's winning the war….I can't really say it's good news. It's better than what I thought and that's something.
-
@joekido:
http://wtvr.com/2014/06/12/polling-numbers-show-president-obama-now-as-unpopular-as-bush/ lookey here Arlong Parkers, your leader is now as unpopular as Bush
Boy, that article isn't slanted at all.
Bush has been out of office for six years and his approval rating has basically improved just because people have forgotten how awful he is. Beyond that, Obama's approval rating at its worst is still a dozen points higher than Bush's was right before he left office and that actually improved the closer he got to leaving the White House.
-
I feel like we armed them somehow. Not that i want us to get into this situation at all but this seems like spillage from Syria.
I don't think we armed ISIL through Syria. We gave to the more moderate groups.
But uh…we did arm the Iraqi army...who just ran and left tons of stuff...so in that sense we did end up arming them :IIf you want to point a finger at a country for stupidly possibly funding these guys in the Syria dog fight pit, than look no further than Turkey.
-
No troop deployment to Iraq. Obama says we're looking at other options, which probably means airstrikes.
-
I know why the Muslims fight each other. If you wanted to know why i'll explian it in 2 paragraphs:
Shia The prophet has already arrived
Sunni: No he does notSo it's not the Government they are fighting over, it's who is right. That is what I was told
-
I love Joekiddo.
-
Well that happened.
-
@joekido:
I know why the Muslims fight each other. If you wanted to know why i'll explian it in 2 paragraphs:
Sunni: The prophet has already arrived
Shia: No he does notSo it's not the Government they are fighting over, it's who is right. That is what I was told
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the Shiite Muslims who believe the Imam was once alive and will reappear later on? And it's the Sunni Muslims who believe he has not appeared yet but basically agree with the Shiite Muslims that he will appear later on? So, most don't believe he's actually here right now except for a very few fringe groups probably.
It's not just religious sectarian differences that have pitted Muslims against each other. To pinpoint the bloodshed on the notion of, 'I'm right, you're wrong' is simply foolish. No way is that enough to cause the kind of conflict happening right now. Politics, oppression by powerful ruling parties, and extremists seeking power play heavy roles in creating this conflict. And I don't think I'm wrong in saying most Shiites and Sunnis cohabitate peacefully with one another. It's just the politics and extremists in both sects driving them apart.
I admit I'm not well versed on the subject though so someone else more knowledgeable in that area might chime in if they feel inclined to.
-
Well I don't think the US should get involved at all. Not even airstrikes. We've done this way too many times and it's just replaced by a different shitty government and some more people with guns and explosives who don't want said government. If we're going to commit we should commit completely to the entire region but that is impossible. There's no point in playing middle east wack-a-mole. It's old, it's exhausting, it's expensive. If they want to protect the oil just make some deal with the current shitty government and then just put troops around the oil. Admit what we're there for cause the bullshit just gets us killed and a lot of them killed and the cycle just starts over again.
-
@joekido:
I know why the Muslims fight each other. If you wanted to know why i'll explian it in 2 paragraphs:
Shia The prophet has already arrived
Sunni: No he does notSo it's not the Government they are fighting over, it's who is right. That is what I was told
It's the same simple crap it always is underneath.
I am tribe X, they are tribe Y. Tribe Y might control the land, and make trouble for me and my fellow X! This scares me and wounds my pride as well.
Religious extremists hide a true coat of nationalism underneath nine times out of ten, same with the old communist groups.
If these ISIL guys were 100% about creating a new Sunni Islamic Caliphate then why so specific regarding the Levant?
Why do they seem fine with letting the Kurds keep their mountains? Why do they have no interest in heading north to Turkish lands?
Why is this instead about a specific region and the Arabs who live there?Yes there's a religious aspect, but it's nationalist at the end of the day.
Their hatred for the Shia probably has much more to do with them considering them to be foreign extensions of the Persians in Iran than any banal scripture. -
The frontline has stalled around the cities and suburbs north of Baghdad, no sigh of anymore movement, if anything momentum is being gained by the Shia.
The Kurds have been playing aggressor after all against ISIS too. They've snaked their forces around the north of the provinces where Mosul is and have linked up to the Syrian border. In essence they're in control of territory that links to Syrian Kurdish areas.
Another small minority group in Iraq, the Iraqi Turkmen is resisting ISIL independently. Calls in Turkey are being made to help them due to ethnic affiliation.
They don't seem to want direct Kurdish help, even though it was offered. -
ISIL has apparently massacred dozens of Iraqi soldiers that they captured; if anything is going to stiffen the resolve of the Iraqi military, it'll be warcrimes like that.
-
Hi Guys …
my friend is staying in Tokyo (hachioji) for a week, can you recommend any anime/manga goods shops around there .... or any souvenir shops around there ....
i would like to get few anime/manga/souvenir from Japan ....thanks a lot in advance ...
-
Hi Guys …
my friend is staying in Tokyo (hachioji) for a week, can you recommend any anime/manga goods shops around there .... or any souvenir shops around there ....
i would like to get few anime/manga/souvenir from Japan ....thanks a lot in advance ...
What the hell thread did you think this was lol
-
ISIL has apparently massacred dozens of Iraqi soldiers that they captured; if anything is going to stiffen the resolve of the Iraqi military, it'll be warcrimes like that.
Saw it in the news this morning.
Yeah, this is awful stuff.[hide]
[/hide] -
So. Starbucks is offering free college tuition to its employees, no major strings attached (like having to remain an indetured employee after graduating… though obviously selection and top out fee have limits.)
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/15/news/economy/starbucks-schultz-education/
Geez Starbucks, between that, your above minimum wage paycheck, and enhanced health care, it's like you're a good employer or something.
-
Sorry have to cut in with a differant topic Robby but according to Washington (AP) Barack Obama is going to deploy 275 troops to Iraq. How dumb does that sound? Here's the link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/kerry-us-drone-strikes-option-stem-isil-advances-24152981
-
@joekido:
How dumb does that sound? Here's the link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/kerry-us-drone-strikes-option-stem-isil-advances-24152981
It's to beef up security details at embassies and consulates as well as to protect staff that are being transferred away from Baghdad to safer regions like Basra.
So it doesn't sound dumb at all.
-
Yes, one unsourced sentence that I'm not seeing anywhere else on my news feeds.
-
It's to beef up security details at embassies and consulates as well as to protect staff that are being transferred away from Baghdad to safer regions like Basra.
So it doesn't sound dumb at all.
let's hope they don't encounter the Islamic Militants that excuted the Iraqi army
-
@joekido:
let's hope they don't encounter the Islamic Militants that excuted the Iraqi army
Barring ISIL fighting their way into the Embassy, which is basically a fortress within a fortress within a fortress, that seems unlikely. Even then, any Americans would have almost certainly been evacuated well before that could ever happen.
-
@joekido:
Sorry have to cut in with a differant topic Robby but according to Washington (AP) Barack Obama is going to deploy 275 troops to Iraq. How dumb does that sound? Here's the link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/kerry-us-drone-strikes-option-stem-isil-advances-24152981
None of those are going to be involved in direct fighting.
-
"Key suspect" in the Benghazi attack was captured over the weekend and is being held outside of Libya in U.S. custody.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-s–captures-suspected-ringleader-of-benghazi-attack-160435076.html
I hope this will lead to more information on the co-conspirators and I hope this brings a little comfort to those who need it.
-
Im not sure if this was a joke but I found this on my news feed http://investmentwatchblog.com/h-r-2847-july-1-2014-the-u-s-dollar-will-officially-collapse/
-
"Key suspect" in the Benghazi attack was captured over the weekend and is being held outside of Libya in U.S. custody.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/distraction-meme-benghazi-khattala
-
We went off the gold standard back with Nixon and its been a inevitable spiral since that was inevitably going to crash. Since then most of our money exists as interests and loans, and banks never have the full amount of their investments at any one time. When the housing market crashed trillions of dollars just vanished as a result.
The money we make now is all imaginary investments and even if we paid every single dollar in the economy right this instant we'd still be trillions in debt. Because most of our money exists as interests and loans. It's why we hit the debt ceiling every couple of years, and why the bar keeps getting raised.
That said.
It's a republican saying it's a problem and decrying it specifically as a horrible Obama mistake. So… par for the course.
-
-
There's not enough gold left in the world to back the economy.
And everyone would just start hoarding it again.
@joekido:
Im not sure if this was a joke but I found this on my news feed http://investmentwatchblog.com/h-r-2847-july-1-2014-the-u-s-dollar-will-officially-collapse/
From Ron Paul Daily….
-
An economic debacle the size and scope of the 2008 Subprime mortgage crisis? Didn't kill the dollar.
Political brinkmanship that brought us the edge of default, actually did shut down the Federal Government, and got our credit rating lowered? Didn't kill the dollar.
Requiring people report their holdings outside of the US to the IRS and foreign banks with dealings with US citizens to do the same? THE DOLLAR'S GOING TO DIE.Yes. Yes, this threat seems credible and not at all a bunch of tax cheats getting pissed that a loophole is being taken away from them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
even if we paid every single dollar in the economy right this instant we'd still be trillions in debt.
Most of the debt is supposed to be spread out over decades in the form of paying off government bonds, paying Social Security benefits, and paying Medicare bills. It was never supposed to be paid off all at once.
-
Most of the debt is supposed to be spread out over decades in the form of paying off government bonds, paying Social Security benefits, and paying Medicare bills. It was never supposed to be paid off all at once.
But thats not what the scary youtube video told me!
-
i think Bill Clinton was the last prez that actually came close to reducing the Debt to a manageable number, or so i learned in my high school economics course
so it's not impossible, it just takes a level of government cooperation that doesn't exist right now
-
http://gawker.com/explosion-at-world-cup-viewing-venue-in-nigeria-many-r-1592296081/+samer
A suicide bombing at a huge World Cup viewing party kills dozens of people and wounds many more. Book Haram, the same group that kidnapped those 300 Nigerian girls are supposedly behind it.
-
Al Shabab also massacred forty-eight people at a Kenyan viewing party.
-
Philip VI is oficially king of spain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27918094 -
That sort of thing is bad for the anti-gay marriage crowd in the long run though since it shows actual suffering because of their policies.
-
No words.
I read this before and I'm reading it again and one thing I'm kinda taking away from this, and someone correct me if I'm reading wrong, but it's that the reason it got thrown out was that they petitioned for everything they wanted all at once (Removing the Surrogate Mother - Adding Each father's name only to his biological child's certificate - Filing for a second-parent adoption for each father to adopt the child that isn't his DNA) and since the one thing Texas law currently forbids (The second-parent adoption part) was part of it, the judge just tossed the whole thing out.
I mean, in a perfect world, they SHOULD be able to get all of those things done. What they want sounds perfectly reasonable and logical. Both parents raising a child NEED parental rights, period.
But… this is Texas... they had to have known this was going to be a fight when they started. Why did they file for all those things at once? Why not file for the bits you have a good chance of getting, get SOME legal backing behind you, and THEN start the hard fight for the part you know the bigots are going to fight tooth and nail to prevent?
-
The United States 10th Circuit Court of Appeals has declared that the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees a fundamental right for same-sex marriage.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/utah-10th-circuit-gay-marriage-ruling
Indiana's ban is also dead.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/judge-strikes-down-indiana-gay-marriage-ban
-
http://news.yahoo.com/justices-limit-cellphone-searches-arrests-145357478–finance.html A huge win for the Digital age
-
The United States 10th Circuit Court of Appeals has declared that the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees a fundamental right for same-sex marriage.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/utah-10th-circuit-gay-marriage-ruling
Indiana's ban is also dead.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/judge-strikes-down-indiana-gay-marriage-ban
Holy crap what a day.
The 10 circuit court covers Utah, Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma and also New Mexico (who already has gay marriage).
So right now ALL those states had gay marriage legalized …pending possible further appeal.
But would they do it? Those states? Appeal again? That would mean they bring it to the Supreme Court XD
Utah and Oklahoma's conservatives just "shat" in their fellow conservatives states by appealing. Would they want to try again and "shit" on the entire country?
It will be funny seeing the response. At this point it's not even about defeats, this is win/win.Noting that Wisconsin and Michigan are on appeal, this makes Ohio the absolute last state in the Upper Midwest/Lakes region to be without gay marriage. Which is really odd.