Maybe we should revive the Recession Revolution thread, and let Lef and Maxterdexter spill the beans there?
Random News Article Discussion
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@Monkey:
Maybe we should revive the Recession Revolution thread, and let Lef and Maxterdexter spill the beans there?
I was thinking we could even have a new thread but that one could work. But it might be time for a "v2" thread anyway.
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Yeah, that might be a good idea. This has definitely caught our full attention now that it's gone this bad. I don't have much to comment, but I've been reading the thread all the time during the last three days. Your updates don't go unseen or unnoticed, Lef.
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I don't have much to comment, but I've been reading the thread all the time during the last three days. Your updates don't go unseen, Lef.
Also this.
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I was thinking we could even have a new thread but that one could work. But it might be time for a "v2" thread anyway.
There was a V.2, that's the one that just stopped being posted in (V.1 is in the hall of fame).
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Oh, well v3 then XD
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My thoughts with the Ukrainians. And please post on Lef, I've been following your updates too.
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Not been commenting because I don't know what to say, but I appreciate your updates on the situation, Lef. This is really horrific.
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@Print:
Not been commenting because I don't know what to say, but I appreciate your updates on the situation, Lef. This is really horrific.
yeah, I'm the same.
I'm left speechless face of the horror. -
This must be especially creepy for Poles and Finns and people who border Russia and see what falling into their orbit means.
The Georgians already know I guess. -
I don't know, not really. The way I see it, this is not so much about falling under the Russian influence as it is about trying to maintain a functional national state in a place where cultural unity or plurality isn't the big thing and where the cultural borders of two or more peoples have always been vague and tenuous at best.
Something like this would never happen over here unless we suddenly got a huge Russian cultural and ethnic minority that rivals our Finnish population in size out of nowhere. It could form within the next hundred or so years, sure, but it's not going to happen overnight. I'd be way more worried if I was Estonian or Lithuanian.
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@Lef:
Well…. I must admit you've hit a bull's eye. Tomorrow is a free day so I'll be able to keep an eye on everything I can, and make updates.
Lef let me ask you what you know about this.
I've heard various internet peoples and news anchors mention that east Ukraine is richer than west.
Does this actually translate to the people being richer in those regions? With better infrastructure, living standards, and so forth.
Or does this "fact" really just translate to more economic activity in the Donbas region which doesn't actually contribute much to local pockets or national ones. -
I agree with Dryish here. Ukraine is only now suffering what most post-Soviet states that have a significant demographic divide have suffered. Look at all the frozen pseudo-states. Look at what the ethnic Russians did in Moldova. South Ossetia and Azbakhia are two more examples. The civil war in Tajikistan was because of ethno-religious conflicts.
Yeah, Lithuania needs to worry much much more than anyone else. Especially given their significant under-franchised Russian minority.
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Is there anything we can do at all besides just watch this all unfold?
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Unlike the Baltics there is however tons of Russian (the country not the ethnicity) meddling behind the scenes through various channels, up to the accusations that Viktor Yushchenko was poisoned with Russian approval and agents.
Meddling that doesn't seem to be in the least bit interested in ethnic ties but a sort of neo-Soviet behavior.
Putin shows as much interest in the Caucasus and Central Asia (as in not just Kazakhstan) as he does Belarus/Ukraine.The Baltics haven't been molested this way. The ones who truly got away, and were never really fixated into the Soviet system very well. Progressive hubs even within the autocratic surroundings, a lot like Finland when the Russian Empire fell apart. And the Russians let them go easy until Stalin made his little attempt much later.
Remember what Ukraine is. It's East Slavic just like Russia, many Russian nationalists don't even acknowledge Ukrainians as a separate ethnic group in the first place. And the region has insanely deep ties to Russians and East Slavs in general, again unlike the Baltics.Look at all the frozen pseudo-states. Look at what the ethnic Russians did in Moldova.
Here's a key here. There are nearly as much Ukrainians in Transnistria as Russians. Both of which also share population with Moldovans/Romanians in the region.
South Ossetia and Azbakhia are two more examples.
Of ethnic wars that Russians exploited without being personally involved with…
The ethnic groups in question there are Ossetians in South Ossetia, no relation to Russians.
And Abkhazia was the Abkhaz, who are related to Chechens and Circassians, not Russians.The civil war in Tajikistan was because of ethno-religious conflicts.
None of them Russian.
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@Monkey:
Putin shows as much interest in the Caucasus and Central Asia (as in not just Kazakhstan) as he does Belarus/Ukraine.
Just Georgia, though. I don't recall him messing with Armenia or Azerbaijan.
@Monkey:
The Baltics haven't been molested this way. The ones who truly got away, and were never really fixated into the Soviet system very well. Progressive hubs even within the autocratic surroundings, a lot like Finland when the Russian Empire fell apart. And the Russians let them go easy until Stalin made his little attempt much later.
True. So by this logic, Poland and Finland have pretty much zilch to worry about since they both exited Russian influence a fair while ago.
@Monkey:
Remember what Ukraine is. It's East Slavic just like Russia, many Russian nationalists don't even acknowledge Ukrainians as a separate ethnic group in the first place. And the region has insanely deep ties to Russians and East Slavs in general, again unlike the Baltics.
Again, true. I'm actually surprised that Russia let the eastern part of Ukraine go in the first place.
@Monkey:
Here's a key here. There are nearly as much Ukrainians in Transnistria as Russians. Both of which also share population with Moldovans/Romanians in the region.
The self-identity of that place is more with Russia than anywhere else.
@Monkey:
Of ethnic wars that Russians exploited without being personally involved with…
The ethnic groups in question there are Ossetians in South Ossetia, no relation to Russians.
And Abkhazia was the Abkhaz, who are related to Chechens and Circassians, not Russians.But all groups that are Russian (nationality, not ethnicity). Interfering in Azbakhia and South Ossetia is more of an insurance policy than anything else, if they don't fight the Georgians, the conflict will inevitably spill over into neighbouring regions of Russia. Dagestan all over again.
@Monkey:
None of them Russian.
True. But an ethnic conflict, nonetheless.
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Just Georgia, though. I don't recall him messing with Armenia or Azerbaijan.
They have decent relations with Russia, unlike Georgia. Same with most of Central Asia.
And there's something to that you know.
Russia doesn't really have to act like an asshole. Azerbaijan is estranged from Iran, and Armenia feels completely penned in by enemies (they don't like the Georgians much).
Central Asia is interesting though, because all of them have been playing some game of three with the interests of the US, Russians and China.
These are also poorly regionalized areas, something western Ukraine has no problem with.
Ukrainians who don't like Russia have a really big and obvious identity. Europe.
The Caucasus exists in that same odd place Cyprus does where they kind of akwardly shuffle between feeling European and Middle Eastern without ever really settling. And Central Asia is sort of the same deal. Both of these being crossroads regions.
So in a sense Putin has an advantage of Russia still sort of filling in an identity gap for those places, weak as it is.
The Baltics had the strongest sense of outside, no surprise they have the weakest ties to Russia and the easiet transition away.
Ukraine (and the Belarusian opposition) are where that Russia vs. Europe thing comes into exact friction.
Two strong conflicting identities.
Putin has to fight and bite in their case.True. So by this logic, Poland and Finland have pretty much zilch to worry about since they both exited Russian influence a fair while ago.
Polish politics are largely predicated around Russophobia. I never said the fears were literally "THEY WILL GET US AGAIN OR EVER". No one sits easy sitting next to larger more hostile states. Turkey is never going to invade Cyprus again, most likely, but that doesn't make their presence and pressure not a constant terror to the people living there.
I was musing on how the neighbors were at a greater level of alarm and morbid interest, not that they expected the same treatment.The self-identity of that place is more with Russia than anywhere else.
Soviet Union =/= Russia.
But all groups that are Russian (nationality, not ethnicity).
You're saying this about the Circassians and Chechens? That doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
Interfering in Azbakhia and South Ossetia is more of an insurance policy than anything else, if they don't fight the Georgians, the conflict will inevitably spill over into neighbouring regions of Russia. Dagestan all over again.
What? How. Abkhaz don't live in Russia, and the Circassians (the cousins who lived over the mountain) were taken care of about 150 years ago if you know what I mean.
There was zero aspect of the Abkhaz thing spilling over.
Same with Ossetia, why would that spill over. The North Ossetians would…what?
And none of this has to do with Dagestan? The conflict in Dagestan is spill over from Islamic radicalism, not so much ethnicity by that point.
Both the remainiing Abkhaz and South Ossetians are largely Orthodox Christian. Unlike the Northeast Caucasus. -
http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html
State names will be weird.. but ill doubt it will go through.. dont think the US is ready for 56 states
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http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html
State names will be weird.. but ill doubt it will go through.. dont think the US is ready for 56 states
Of course it won't go through.
This is one of those retarded things that just makes "FuNnY NeWs" blog rolls.
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Just be safe Lef, don't put yourself in harm's way and best of luck. I'm also one that reads but doesn't comment.
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I for one do believe that if the population of Abkhazia and South Ossetia wish to not be a part of Georgia, they have the right to. I just oppose the presence of people with terrible past history in their leadership and the violent methods used to achieve that.
Both SO and Transnistria have changed leaders recently though. And Leonid Tibilov was head of the SO KGB, but he did co-chair a "Georgian-Ossetian peacekeeping commission" and I've yet to find refference to him being mixed up in anything during the 90's though it is possible given his position at the time,
The new president of Transnistria is Yevgeny Schevchuk.
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@No:
I for one do believe that if the population of Abkhazia and South Ossetia wish to not be a part of Georgia, they have the right to. I just oppose the presence of people with terrible past history in their leadership and the violent methods used to achieve that.
And I don't think we should validate complete and total genocide as a legitimate method of state building.
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@Monkey:
And I don't think we should validate complete and total genocide as a legitimate method of state building.
I did say I don't agree with the methods of leadership and early separatism. I believe that if they wish to ever be acknowledged at large they first of all have to give over the most guilty parties to an international trial of some sort.
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@No:
I did say I don't agree with the methods of leadership and early separatism. I believe that if they wish to ever be acknowledged at large they first of all have to give over the most guilty parties to an international trial of some sort.
And respect a complete right of return that would probably upset their entire ethnic separatist purpose they strove for in the first place.
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@Monkey:
Lef let me ask you what you know about this.
I've heard various internet peoples and news anchors mention that east Ukraine is richer than west.
Does this actually translate to the people being richer in those regions? With better infrastructure, living standards, and so forth.
Or does this "fact" really just translate to more economic activity in the Donbas region which doesn't actually contribute much to local pockets or national ones.It's the second. And it contributes to nation budget(but everyone knows the government put's a lot of it in their pockets)
[Meanwhile, good going Canada!
Kiev. S](http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-expands-sanctions-on-ukraine-s-viktor-yanukovych-officials-1.2545140)ome part of police officers dropped their weapons and walked to maidan as gesture of much over-due support. They made a speech on stage, people are happy about such a turn. Although some are still suspicious, and they voiced their suspicions. Police officer reassured them that they don't support the president, the crowd responded to such statement with a cheer
And there is information that one of the snipers was caught - Unverified
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To sum it up, the issue until now: [http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/21/the-venezuelan-outcry-faqs/
I](http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/21/the-venezuelan-outcry-faqs/)t doesn't have the more colorful interventions of the goverment, or the media blackout.
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http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html
State names will be weird.. but ill doubt it will go through.. dont think the US is ready for 56 states
There's no chance in hell California would split into two states, let alone SIX.
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http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html
State names will be weird.. but ill doubt it will go through.. dont think the US is ready for 56 states
There's no chance in hell California would split into two states, let alone SIX.
Have to agree with you there
quote= "Vast parts of our state are poorly served by a representative government," according to Draper's plan, which cleared a key government hurdle this week, part of the process to qualify for the ballot.= end quote
This reminds me where the separatists in Texas said voting was first step for Texas to secede was going well lol.
I've no doubts about California splitting up …. it has no a chance at all :/For the "our state are poorly served by a representative government,"
Well guess what, chum, that speaks for many states! -
This at least sounds promising, but I honestly don't have a clue whether this will actually help pacify anything or if this is just careful political maneuvering from Yanukovych.
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This at least sounds promising, but I honestly don't have a clue whether this will actually help pacify anything or if this is just careful political maneuvering from Yanukovych.
It does, but people (in net, at least) are unhappy with this, since they don't trust the opposition trinity. The maidan has it's hand's full with the funeral now, so I don't know their opinion. Either way it should be more or less quieter for some time.
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To sum it up, the issue until now: [http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/21/the-venezuelan-outcry-faqs/
I](http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/21/the-venezuelan-outcry-faqs/)t doesn't have the more colorful interventions of the goverment, or the media blackout.
Thank you so much! Been hearing about this but finding information is a pain. Hope everything is going ok for you!
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Thank you so much! Been hearing about this but finding information is a pain. Hope everything is going ok for you!
My bossess have been kind of assine (not to me thankfuly), I need to move out soon and I won't take out my furniture only for either a protestor to try and close a street with it, or for a national guard to acuse me of protesting, my mom and dad are super nervious, and I'm fidgety about news and strong sound, but.. I'm ok.
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Glad things over at Maidan are a little quieter today. At the very least it gives time to mourn the dead :(
I notice that the UK didn't send its foreign minister to the Ukraine with the EU delegation as they have done in the past. I imagine that's more to do with euroscepticism over here than a desire to stay on Putin's good side though.
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Arizona goes bonkers. The Supreme Court will strike this down surely, so what's the point?
"Dear Mr. Obama. Is homosexuality natural? Or is it an acquired taste? Kthxbye."
This image, from the latter report, is especially depressing. I'm surprised that while the rest of the continent deals with the existence of sexual minorities, South Africa has passed gay marriage.
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There's no chance in hell California would split into two states, let alone SIX.
Yeah I think West Virginia and South Carolina is enough as is.
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Yeah I think West Virginia and South Carolina is enough as is.
The Carolinas were split well before the US formed though.
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Arizona goes bonkers. The Supreme Court will strike this down surely, so what's the point?
"Dear Mr. Obama. Is homosexuality natural? Or is it an acquired taste? Kthxbye."
This image, from the latter report, is especially depressing. I'm surprised that while the rest of the continent deals with the existence of sexual minorities, South Africa has passed gay marriage.
! http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72350000/gif/_72350907_gay_africa464.gif
Promotion of homosexuality - even talking about it without condemning it - would also be punishable by a prison sentence.
This is some 1984 shit right here, because it criminalizes any attempts to repeal it, pretty much.
"This behaviour is henceforth criminal, and to not at all times express the same view is a punishable offence".
I seriously hope the US tells them to back off cause this is just insane.
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@No:
This is some 1984 shit right here, because it criminalizes any attempts to repeal it, pretty much.
"This behaviour is henceforth criminal, and to not at all times express the same view is a punishable offence".
I seriously hope the US tells them to back off cause this is just insane.
Of course we will lol.
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@Monkey:
Of course we will lol.
I dunno if serious.
Because the article does mention Uganda's president will seek advice from the US whether to sing the bill or not, I don't know if you've read that, or think I'm asking for random US intervention out of nowhere, see.
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@No:
This is some 1984 shit right here, because it criminalizes any attempts to repeal it, pretty much.
"This behaviour is henceforth criminal, and to not at all times express the same view is a punishable offence".
I seriously hope the US tells them to back off cause this is just insane.
I brought this up like a month ago, but it didn't get any attention.
I used to be "punishable by death" in the clause.And what's even more infuriating, some crazy American evangelists actively worked on helping create the bill.
I really wish we could bar them from ever returning to US again. -
Earthquake confirmed in Bristol Channel
While reading about the riots in Ukraine and S. America (sorry forgot the area's name) and the flooding in the UK, I totally missed this= seems that on Thursday the 20th, there was an earthquake in the Bristol Channel.
I never thought England/Wales had earthquakes, thought the continental mass was too far from plate edges.
… Silly me
I should have remembered that even the middle of contients can have faults, like the North America does in New York and on the Mississippi River (forgot that town/area that give its name to it), so its possible for faults to lie under the UK. -
Earthquake confirmed in Bristol Channel
While reading about the riots in Ukraine and S. America (sorry forgot the area's name) and the flooding in the UK, I totally missed this= seems that on Thursday the 20th, there was an earthquake in the Bristol Channel.
I never thought England/Wales had earthquakes, thought the continental mass was too far from plate edges.
… Silly me
I should have remembered that even the middle of contients can have faults, like the North America does in New York and on the Mississippi River (forgot that town/area that give its name to it), so its possible for faults to lie under the UK.Yeah, had one in Nottingham once, it knocked my sleeping dad off the sofa and caused him to wake up on the floor feeling mega-confused.
They're not inter-plate events though, but rather intra-plate events, mostly caused by the rock rebounding upwards after it was compressed by glaciers during the ice age. Bit like a beachball you push into, it doesn't return to a ball shape smoothly. But these events are still pretty rare, and never particularly cause worse damage than fallen chimney pots. It feels almost disrespectful to those living near plate boundaries to even worry about them that much.
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@Print:
Yeah, had one in Nottingham once, it knocked my sleeping dad off the sofa and caused him to wake up on the floor feeling mega-confused.
They're not inter-plate events though, but rather intra-plate events, mostly caused by the rock rebounding upwards after it was compressed by glaciers during the ice age. Bit like a beachball you push into, it doesn't return to a ball shape smoothly. But these events are still pretty rare, and never particularly cause worse damage than fallen chimney pots. It feels almost disrespectful to those living near plate boundaries to even worry about them that much.
Ah thnks for that. Well to be fair, if someone isn't used to the idea of an earthquake hitting the area they live in and get woken by one, its a bit scary…. esp when it wakes the unsuspecting person up.
I've been in one myself and yeah it hit when I was sleeping. I knew I was living on a plate boundry -the west coast but always heard of tehm being in California, but not heard of ones Oregon, except if a Volcano erupted. ( Yes I was quite uneducated back then , more worried about volcanoes than quakes)
The quake was "only" a 5.5 and happened nearer to the border with Cal. while I was closer to Portland but it did cause cracks in the area, toppled a gym in a town closer to the epicenter but due to the remote are it was in. It was called a "perfect quake for study" due to the damage was minimal and no deaths.
But it still scared the shit out us collage kids when it woke us up in our dorms (esp those of us on the 2nd floor) and we ran out to open ground. Later we laughed at the panic and claimed compared to what Californians go through it was silly, but it didnt' take away the nervousness of when it was happening.Le me twll you, I respect the people who live in high risk quake areas. I grew up in NE Texas, right smack dab in the Tornado Alley, and experienced hundreds of tornado warnings, and had a few touch down a mile or so close but that's it. Over 30 years in Tornado Ally and been safe, I spent 6 months on the coast and experienced an earthquake. Lets just say if I had to choose what area to live in, I'd choose Tornado Ally, the quakes are just too scary for me.
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Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman was arrested by Mexican police today
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@Monkey:
The Carolinas were split well before the US formed though.
Had a feeling I was messing up on that.
Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman was arrested by Mexican police today
Wonder if this stay will permanant.
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@Monkey:
The Carolinas were split well before the US formed though.
Had a feeling I was messing up on that.
Perhaps you were thinking of Virginia/ West Virginia? That was the split that happened during the 1860s over the issue of slavery and civil war. It's also the only state (that I know of) that split after the United States formed… and that was during(or leading up to) a state of war.
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Perhaps you were thinking of Virginia/ West Virginia? That was the split that happened during the 1860s over the issue of slavery and civil war. It's also the only state (that I know of) that split after the United States formed… and that was during(or leading up to) a state of war.
They mentioned WV earlier, in the same post as the Carolinas.
Maybe it was the Dakotas Green_vs_Red had in mind?
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They mentioned WV earlier, in the same post as the Carolinas.
Maybe it was the Dakotas Green_vs_Red had in mind?
The Dakotas were never a single state though; they were part of the immense Dakota Territory along with Montana and half of Wyoming prior to being inducted as individual states.
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what reasons have states split for in the past though? i don't recall any states wanting to split before because they were 'ungovernable'… I think republicans would fight this though, if it started to get taken seriously