Battles in One Piece aren't solely defined by how hard you can punch. Deal with it.
[qimg]http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/10/05/o/read506eb8c94457b/img000004.png[/qimg]
Law is clearly stronger than any of the ases.
Battles in One Piece aren't solely defined by how hard you can punch. Deal with it.
[qimg]http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/10/05/o/read506eb8c94457b/img000004.png[/qimg]
Law is clearly stronger than any of the ases.
Law is clearly stronger than any of the ases.
Exactly. Most of Law's strength comes from intelligent usage of his fruit. He doesn't defeat his opponents through brute force.
He's similar to Monet, Caesar, Jora, Robin and several others in this regard.
Battles in One Piece aren't solely defined by how hard you can punch. Deal with it.
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/10/05/o/read506eb8c94457b/img000004.png
You keep posting this Monet nonsense over and over again, forgetting Luffy got out of that situation through pure strength. Every combat still relies on the individual strength and combat ability. DF is just a bonus. You criticize us with that "punch" comment while in your view you think everything is about the DF. No matter what gimmicky ability Pica may have, if he is not strong, he won't last more than 5secs against Luffy and Zoro. And if he is able to hold out Luffy and Zoro, that is also a bad story telling unless it's plot armor.
Law is clearly stronger than any of the ases.
"Clearly"? There's nothing clear about how strong Doula's seated officers are, since we have yet to see them fight anyone. Maybe it will become more clear in the next chapter, but until then, Law might as well be weaker than either of them.
Peronally, I think he's on par with them.
Exactly. Most of Law's strength comes from intelligent usage of his fruit. He doesn't defeat his opponents through brute force.
He's similar to Monet, Caesar, Jora, Robin and several others in this regard.
Nope, he's strong, his hability didn't used to work against Vergo's Haki. Nowadays it works not because of "inteligence" but because he became stronger enough to make his Ope Ope Df work on someone with incredible haki as Vergo.
Pica, Trebol and Diamond, if they're nothing but Df, then they're pretty much fu**ed against Vergo.
Exactly. Most of Law's strength comes from intelligent usage of his fruit. He doesn't defeat his opponents through brute force.
He's similar to Monet, Caesar, Jora, Robin and several others in this regard.
Each one of those people are still strong in their own right. At thriller back when Robin held Moria and Moria send bats to her, she maintain that she has to keep her concentration and not let Moria go. That is not intelligence, that is her strength.
Nope, he's strong, his hability didn't used to work against Vergo's Haki. Nowadays it works not because of "inteligence" but because he became stronger enough to make his Ope Ope Df work on someone with incredible haki as Vergo.
Pica, Trebol and Diamond, if they're nothing but Df, then they're pretty much fu**ed against Vergo.
I just don't see how thats automatically true. And even IF Vergo could defeat them easily, it could be a rock paper scissors scenario, where Pica is still troublesome.
You keep posting this Monet nonsense over and over again, forgetting Luffy got out of that situation through pure strength. Every combat still relies on the individual strength and combat ability. DF is just a bonus. You criticize us with that "punch" comment while in your view you think everything is about the DF. No matter what gimmicky ability Pica may have, if he is not strong, he won't last more than 5secs against Luffy and Zoro. And if he is able to hold out Luffy and Zoro, that is also a bad story telling unless it's plot armor.
It still happens. Not saying Pica is all DF, no muscle though.
Nope, he's strong, his hability didn't used to work against Vergo's Haki. Nowadays it works not because of "inteligence" but because he became stronger enough to make his Ope Ope Df work on someone with incredible haki as Vergo.
Pica, Trebol and Diamond, if they're nothing but Df, then they're pretty much fu**ed against Vergo.
Who's saying that Pica is only DF?
Couldn't he be skilled at fighting and at the same time have an overpowered ability? Like Hancock? You're the one judging him and Diamante based on absolutely nothing.
And what's the point of putting Vergo against the other Elite Officers?
Each one of those people are still strong in their own right. At thriller back when Robin held Moria and Moria send bats to her, she maintain that she has to keep her concentration and not let Moria go. That is not intelligence, that is her strength.
"Most of Law's strength".
Strength in this sense encompasses everything he is able to do.
Rebecca's high speed is strength, for example.
Law is clearly stronger than any of the ases.
To be honest with how fight on bridge between Law and Doflamingo looked(even though Law was tired after trying to buy some time fighting with Doflamingo and Fujitora) Joker had an edge, clear one. If Law would not be so tried before start of fight on bridge he would have far better chances but still he was not on par with Doflamingo.
Seats are pretty hyped and Doflamingo kept heart seat for Law so he probably sees him(or estimated his strength) as close or equal to other seats.
How you came up with that clearly stronger? Based on logic he should not be, based on evidence- we have no showing yet from any of seated guys. We seen only Vergo who should have an edge over seats as he was said to be right hand man of Doflamingo and his longest companion so to say. Vergo loosing pretty fast was mostly because his underestimating Law. He thought that he does not have to even avoid slashes from Law with his CoA fullbody armor haki turned on. In my opinion Vergo would have chances of beating Law if not for underestimating thing.
That is a strange line of thought, at the end of it all, if Burgess/BB is pissed at anyone it will be Luffy. Even if Lucy cover is blown, they have no idea who he is. Sabo mental note was more along the side of so that is the crew that turned Ace in.
How do you know? What if Sabo became a more or less notorious revolutionary during the TS, similar to Ivankov? Blackbeard could very well know who he is, or at least make a connection to the organisation somehow.
In any case it makes absolute sense for Sabo to be wary of who he fights, and Burgess is the only gladiator left who could cause trouble beyond the arena.
It's not really about what will actually happen in the story, just what a competent member of an undercover organisation should consider.
It still happens.
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/27/o/read4feb3ad34eecc/img000006.png
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Ceasar is a strong pirate mate. Story wise he was also the final boss of that arc. Everything there makes sense. Having Pica hold out Luffy and Zoro now doesn't make sense. It's like saying Kaku keeps out Luffy and Zoro after they crossed to the last portion of Enies Lobby and Luffy was clearly looking for Lucci.
To be honest with how fight on bridge between Law and Doflamingo looked(even though Law was tired after trying to buy some time fighting with Doflamingo and Fujitora) Joker had an edge, clear one. If Law would not be so tried before start of fight on bridge he would have far better chances but still he was not on par with Doflamingo.
Seats are pretty hyped and Doflamingo kept heart seat for Law so he probably sees him(or estimated his strength) as close or equal to other seats.How you came up with that clearly stronger? Based on logic he should not be, based on evidence- we have no showing yet from any of seated guys. We seen only Vergo who should have an edge over seats as he was said to be right hand man of Doflamingo and his longest companion so to say. Vergo loosing pretty fast was mostly because his underestimating Law. He thought that he does not have to even avoid slashes from Law with his CoA fullbody armor haki turned on. In my opinion Vergo would have chances of beating Law if not for underestimating thing.
I totally agree with the firs part of your post, he wasn't at his 100% at the bridge, and still if Law were on his 100% he would lose against Mingo with only the chance to give more time to the SH, but not really chances to defeat him.
In the case of Vergo, it is really hard to fight Law when you don't have any protection for his Room. A fight against Law it's a case where if you don't have the power to avoid his hability then prepare yourself to be violated, not only if Vergo was overconfident or he would have better chances if he knew his hability was already working on him, once Vergo is inside his Room he doesn't really have much to do in any case. Just like Mingo, he could fight inside Law's Room not because stupidity or inteligence but because he's strong enough to protect himself with nothing else than his own power from Law's hability.
@krule274:
It doesn't tell us anything. Maybe he hates the BB Pirates just like the rest of the world.
i got the exact opposite impression i thought sabo was pissed and wanted to fight burgess because the blackbeards captured ace
Apart from Burgess being strong, obviously, I think the fact that he is up against a Yonkou commander could cause him a lot more trouble than the actual fight. Sabo is no ordinary pirate after all, he is part of the revolutionary army and whatever he does might have negative consequences for the organisation and their goals. I doubt Dragon can afford to piss off a Yonkou, at least not for petty reasons.
While what you guys mentioned is plausible the reason i said that is because everyone or almost everyone is having high expectations of Sabo.
Shadowgreed mentioned something interesting about Idoflamingo and the thing was that that person thought his favourite character would be somewhat undefeatable.
Well after reading that i realised that almost everyone on this forum is doing the exact thing. Everyone expects Sabo to be a fearless person with limitless power because they Fanboy over him and his comeback is amazing. Im sorry to say it but that's the case.
I haven't heard of Sabo not being able to do something in this forum. All I've heard is Sabo will defeat Diamante he will defeat burgess he can break Bartos barrier he can also Defeat Doflamingo. Like seriously? Tell me that isn't the same thing.. Yes Sabo is strong but he has his limits.
Burgess made the crowd shit their pants a first division commander yeah Im gonna say it. He. Could. Defeat. Sabo.
Sabo mentioned Jesus Burgess just before the final started. I don't know if you see the message there but Sabo is kind of not liking the fact he has to fight him. What does that tell you?
It tells me that Sabo noticed that Blackbeard, the Devil Fruit hunter and the man responsible for his brother dead (To an extent of course) is also interested in his late brother's power, nothing more.
Ceasar is a strong pirate mate. Story wise he was also the final boss of that arc. Everything there makes sense. Having Pica hold out Luffy and Zoro now doesn't make sense. It's like saying Kaku keeps out Luffy and Zoro after they crossed to the last portion of Enies Lobby and Luffy was clearly looking for Lucci.
How do you know Oda doesn't want Pica to hold off Luffy and Zoro?
If he wants Pica to stall Luffy and Zoro for whatever reason, then he will.
For all we know, Pica could trap Luffy between two walls and Zoro into a chimney.
While what you guys mentioned is plausible the reason i said that is because everyone or almost everyone is having high expectations of Sabo.
Shadowgreed mentioned something interesting about Idoflamingo and the thing was that that person thought his favourite character would be somewhat undefeatable.
Well after reading that i realised that almost everyone on this forum is doing the exact thing. Everyone expects Sabo to be a fearless person with limitless power because they Fanboy over him and his comeback is amazing. Im sorry to say it but that's the case.
I haven't heard of Sabo not being able to do something in this forum. All I've heard is Sabo will defeat Diamante he will defeat burgess he can break Bartos barrier he can also Defeat Doflamingo. Like seriously? Tell me that isn't the same thing.. Yes Sabo is strong but he has his limits.
Burgess made the crowd shit their pants a first division commander yeah Im gonna say it. He. Could. Defeat. Sabo.
Is no fanboy, WE say or assume all that because Oda gave us the reasons for it, he gave us that battle board, where Sabo was a little below Ace and when you think about how strong Ace was 2 years ago and you can come to the conclusion that Sabo has to be a monster right now.
Is no fanboy, WE say or assume all that because Oda gave us the reasons for it, he gave us that battle board, where Sabo was a little below Ace and when you think about how strong Ace was 2 years ago and you can come to the conclusion that Sabo has to be a monster right now.
WTH is a battle board. Where is Cavendish on that board LOL.
It tells me that Sabo noticed that Blackbeard, the Devil Fruit hunter and the man responsible for his brother dead (To an extent of course) is also interested in his late brother's power, nothing more.
yes that's possible but he could have said what you said directly like "Im going to take him out to show blackbeard " or something like that.
WTH is a battle board. Where is Cavendish on that board LOL.
He's referring to this:
! ![](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/07/08/o/read4e172db78f42f/OP 585 MANGARULE_one-piece-v60-0114e172db7ba3a5.png)
yes that's possible but he could have said what you said directly like "Im going to take him out to show blackbeard " or something like that.
Sabo didn't say anything. It was just a mental note.
Is no fanboy, WE say or assume all that because Oda gave us the reasons for it, he gave us that battle board, where Sabo was a little below Ace and when you think about how strong Ace was 2 years ago and you can come to the conclusion that Sabo has to be a monster right now.
Btw if the battleboard mentioned 29 Sabo mentioned it in 735 idk if anyone noticed. But as for now I'll consider him as a vergo style fighter. Stronger of course or maybe somewhat the same.
@Toraish:
He's referring to this:
! [http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/07/08/o/read4e172db78f42f/OP 585 MANGARULE_one-piece-v60-0114e172db7ba3a5.png](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/07/08/o/read4e172db78f42f/OP 585 MANGARULE_one-piece-v60-0114e172db7ba3a5.png)
Damn, gotta give 'em props for remembering that shit.
But uh. While I agree that Sabo is probably strong, that battle board from 12 years ago doesn't imply anything about growth rate or potential.
Damn, gotta give 'em props for remembering that shit.
But uh. While I agree that Sabo is probably strong, that battle board from 12 years ago doesn't imply anything about growth rate or potential.
No, but given that he's been training directly under the entire world's most wanted man who is evidently incredibly strong just like Whitebeard was (although obviously not quite as strong), and given that he seems to be fully confident in his own ability to stand up against Burgess and Diamante, it's fairly safe to assume that even if his potential wasn't just as great as Ace's was he's still going to be near beastly levels of strength and fighting ability.
Honestly, what do we even know? He might even be the one brother Oda designed Luffy to have from the very beginning with the whole thing with Ace just being something he came up with to flesh the first half of the story out a bit more. It's unlikely, but still.
@Toraish:
No, but given that he's been training directly under the entire world's most wanted man who is evidently incredibly strong just like Whitebeard was (although obviously not quite as strong), and given that he seems to be fully confident in his own ability to stand up against Burgess and Diamante, it's fairly safe to assume that even if his potential wasn't just as great as Ace's was he's still going to be near beastly levels of strength and fighting ability.
Well yeah. But I'm just predicting that Sabo, Diamante, and Burgess are all very close in strength. You probably agree with me there.
@Toraish:
Honestly, what do we even know? He might even be the one brother Oda designed Luffy to have from the very beginning with the whole thing with Ace just being something he came up with to flesh the first half of the story out a bit more. It's unlikely, but still.
Sounds plausible… I would do something like that, LOL.
@Toraish:
Honestly, what do we even know? He might even be the one brother Oda designed Luffy to have from the very beginning with the whole thing with Ace just being something he came up with to flesh the first half of the story out a bit more. It's unlikely, but still.
Well, Oda did state that he planned Ace to die since his creation.
Well yeah. But I'm just predicting that Sabo, Diamante, and Burgess are all very close in strength. You probably agree with me there.
I'm actually thinking that Sabo and Burgess outclass Diamante, with Sabo probably being a bit stronger fighter than Burgess is at this point in time. The differences won't be anywhere near as big as they were between, say, Luffy and the Admirals or even Luffy and the Shichibukai before the timeskip, but it wouldn't really make sense for a top henchman of Doflamingo, a Shichibukai, who ranks as high as Vergo did to be as strong as the number one Revolutionary disciple or a Fleet Commander of Blackbeard's armada.
Diamante will totally be able to hold his own in the ring and is going to use his fruit to his advantage, but if the match is allowed to continue uninterrupted, I can't see him winning the two at all.
Lol, I love that convoluted explanations of how this guy somehow ISN'T Sabo is the new convoluted explanation for why some other guy IS.
Anyway, I don't think Pica being able to hold off Luffy and Zoro due to some crazy power they have to figure out makes anyone look bad. It's One Piece and there aren't clear cut levels.
The likely scenario is that Zoro tells Luffy to go forward with Viola. However the question remains.. does Luffy fight Fujitora and Doflamingo like Law for a bit, or during that time, is when the factory/everything gets revealed and Fujitora either doesn't get involved or goes instantly after Doflamingo?
I like that this arc isn't the usual arc where the options aren't so one sided and already decided before shit hits the fan.
If I was to guess, Sabo would be weaker than Kuma and Ivankov. Since those 2 have been a revolutionary, longer than him.
Outside of the arena i'd probably bet on Sabo or Burgess. But with the odds stacked on his side like that.
I have to say that i'm thinking that Diamante has evened out the board atleast, and probably has things a bit in his favour.
But on the otherhand Barto is willing to go down for the sake of Sabo, so that probably puts him in the best position.
In pure strength i'm thinking Burgess comes out looking the best, serving to hype him immensly. But he'll be out tricked or teamworked.
@Toraish:
I'm actually thinking that Sabo and Burgess outclass Diamante, with Sabo probably being a bit stronger fighter than Burgess is at this point in time. The differences won't be anywhere near as big as they were between, say, Luffy and the Admirals or even Luffy and the Shichibukai before the timeskip, but it wouldn't really make sense for a top henchman of Doflamingo, a Shichibukai, who ranks as high as Vergo did to be as strong as the number one Revolutionary disciple or a Fleet Commander of Blackbeard's armada.
Diamante will totally be able to hold his own in the ring and is going to use his fruit to his advantage, but if the match is allowed to continue uninterrupted, I can't see him winning the two at all.
That sounds fair. Really excited for this match.
If I was to guess, Sabo would be weaker than Kuma and Ivankov. Since those 2 have been a revolutionary, longer than him.
What does being a Revolutionary have to do with how strong he is?
@krule274:
What does being a Revolutionary have to do with how strong he is?
I'm guessing he was trained by the revolutionaries, and Ivan and Kuma was already powerful, when Sabo was brought in, as a kid.
If Sabo gradually got stronger, it's only proper that other commanders should improve as well.
Sabo didn't say anything. It was just a mental note.
You dont have to talk aloud. I'm sure you can keep things to yourself.
If someone tried to get on the back of the fighting fish, and ended diving underwater riding the fish, that's a disqualification right?
ATM nobody can say anything about the outcome of the tournement fight. Neither who will win the tournement (could be Rebecca) nor who is ACTUALLY stronger (well Rebecca isnt).
Also never forget that in OP evryone can beat anyone because it isnt Dragonball. For instance Mr.3 was way more suited to fight Magellan than Luffy, even if luffy could crush him anytime.
Still after we all know that Sabo is a very important character and we are talking about Aces fruit (he also took Luffys place, so its a kind of a promise that he will win), there is not much of a choice for the outcome.
He wins and gets the fruit (doesnt mean he will eat it) -> Oda concludes the mera mera as a story driver with a "happy ending"
Burgess wins or steals fruit -> Oda uses the mera mera to make Sabo and Luffy "hate" BB and his crew even more, so the fruit stays a story driving element.
I think most people would choose the happy ending beause it wouldnt have made much sense to bring up Sabo now just to let him lose his first fight (especially against a member of BBs crew) and not beeing able to take the only thing that is left from his brother.
I'm guessing he was trained by the revolutionaries, and Ivan and Kuma was already powerful, when Sabo was brought in, as a kid.
If Sabo gradually got stronger, it's only proper that other commanders should improve as well.
Except that training =/= power level.
You dont have to talk aloud. I'm sure you can keep things to yourself.
Uh, I see thought bubbles if that's what you mean.
WTH is a battle board. Where is Cavendish on that board LOL.
You know what I mean anyway:getlost:
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
yes that's possible but he could have said what you said directly like "Im going to take him out to show blackbeard " or something like that.
Why would Oda spell it out for us?
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Btw if the battleboard mentioned 29 Sabo mentioned it in 735 idk if anyone noticed. But as for now I'll consider him as a vergo style fighter. Stronger of course or maybe somewhat the same.
I'm pretty sure I didn't get the hidden message in 735, page pls
I'm not saying I hate rebecca but she's going to be owned like how the Broncos will own the Seahawks
Why would Oda spell it out for us?
All Im going saying is Sabo probably can't defeat Burgess. He shouldn't be seen as invincible.
I'm pretty sure I didn't get the hidden message in 735, page pls
http://readms.com/r/one_piece/735/2223/23
It's on the top. Sabo or maybe whatever is saying 29. Was that Sabos tally ? Im not sure about the tallies too much so I'll let you guys have a go at it.
If someone tried to get on the back of the fighting fish, and ended diving underwater riding the fish, that's a disqualification right?
If you break open the container and eat the Mera Mera before anyone can stop you who cares if you're officially disqualified?
http://readms.com/r/one_piece/735/2223/23
It's on the top. Sabo or maybe whatever is saying 29. Was that Sabos tally ? Im not sure about the tallies too much so I'll let you guys have a go at it.
Please tell me you're not talking about the スタ スタ sound effect.
Please tell me you're not talking about the スタ スタ sound effect.
Lmfao is that what it was. Dang.. Your symbols look much clearer. Can't do much but call myself an idiot on that one .
All Im going saying is Sabo probably can't defeat Burgess. He shouldn't be seen as invincible.
He won't defeat Jesus, something will happen and that fight will get interrupted.
[hide][/hide]
It's on the top. Sabo or maybe whatever is saying 29. Was that Sabos tally ? Im not sure about the tallies too much so I'll let you guys have a go at it.
Bro You're talking about the sound effect produced by the steps.
He won't defeat Jesus, something will happen and that fight will get interrupted.
Bro You're talking about the sound effect produced by the steps.
I know i know. I didnt see it closely. mentioned it above. My bad. Yeah an interruption would work fine because there reputations at sake which would affect the story in a way.
Sabo and burgess should be a clear step above diamante
A yonkou commander and a revolutionary commander should be a clear step above a shichibukai's flunkie
I'm not saying I hate rebecca but she's going to be owned like how the Broncos will own the Seahawks
lol, sports reference! Rebecca is going to be "home runned"
I'm guessing he was trained by the revolutionaries, and Ivan and Kuma was already powerful, when Sabo was brought in, as a kid.
If Sabo gradually got stronger, it's only proper that other commanders should improve as well.
How can a pure machine(Kuma) get stronger?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Found this, kinda looks like how Pica appeared
Sabo and burgess should be a clear step above diamante
A yonkou commander and a revolutionary commander should be a clear step above a shichibukai's flunkie
doflamingo knows who is there. He isn't worried about Diamante for a reason