There's the outside possibility that Oda just likes intentionally romanizing the words in wrong ways for some kind of effect, but I'm not sure what effect that is beyond confusing western audiences and making us think he didn't put the five minutes of work in for a proper translation.
The Lev Ely Discussion Thread
-
-
There's the outside possibility that Oda just likes intentionally romanizing the words in wrong ways for some kind of effect, but I'm not sure what effect that is beyond confusing western audiences and making us think he didn't put the five minutes of work in for a proper translation.
I don't really think any part of that process involves thinking about western audiences.
The fact that to a Japanese person Levely and Reverie are the same thing when spoken really goes to show how much the use of latin letters here is for the domestic folks. -
@Monkey:
I don't really think any part of that process involves thinking about western audiences.
The fact that to a Japanese person Levely and Reverie are the same thing when spoken really goes to show how much the use of latin letters here is for the domestic folks.The thing that trips me up is that English has been used a bunch in the series even before we got Shiliew out there, with the wanted posters. Names like Luffy and Roronoa Zoro have had proper in-universe translations, when phonetically they could be corrupted in a bunch of different ways (satan knows all the bootleggers did). So the older stuff ends up having care put into it with regards to western language, while most of the newer things are bad-sounding or demonstrably wrong translations.
Makes me wonder if it's due to a change in editors over the years or something. Or we can circle back to the low but real possibility that Oda knows how these translations work, but decided deliberately doing them wrong was satisfying or something.
-
Wasn't one of the early Oda Editors jean baptise Hattori? He very easilly could be fluent in french, and that would be a big advantage on learning english and helping Oda with naming.
-
The thing that trips me up is that English has been used a bunch in the series even before we got Shiliew out there, with the wanted posters. Names like Luffy and Roronoa Zoro have had proper in-universe translations, when phonetically they could be corrupted in a bunch of different ways (satan knows all the bootleggers did). So the older stuff ends up having care put into it with regards to western language, while most of the newer things are bad-sounding or demonstrably wrong translations.
Makes me wonder if it's due to a change in editors over the years or something. Or we can circle back to the low but real possibility that Oda knows how these translations work, but decided deliberately doing them wrong was satisfying or something.
Stuff like Shiliew and Mary Geoise has the exception rather than the norm. Shiliew happened in a chapter where both the Blackbeard Pirates and Supernovas got Latin name spellings and most everyone else got the expected spelling, and in this arc we've had Wapol, Dalton, Kureha, Rebecca, Vivi, Sai, Garp and, for some people, Koby and Five Elders spelled as expected.
-
@Monkey:
(also Maryjois and Mary Geoise would sound the same even in English or the French they're based off of, one just looks doofier, how are you pronouncing them?)
In the French pronunciation, the second has the terminal consonant so differs from the phonetic pronunciation given (Marijoa), so it feels veeery wrong.
The thing that trips me up is that English has been used a bunch in the series even before we got Shiliew out there, with the wanted posters. Names like Luffy and Roronoa Zoro have had proper in-universe translations, when phonetically they could be corrupted in a bunch of different ways (satan knows all the bootleggers did). So the older stuff ends up having care put into it with regards to western language, while most of the newer things are bad-sounding or demonstrably wrong translations.
Makes me wonder if it's due to a change in editors over the years or something. Or we can circle back to the low but real possibility that Oda knows how these translations work, but decided deliberately doing them wrong was satisfying or something.
I remember reading that Roronoa is taken from the name of the real life pirate François l'Ollonais which (a) shouldn't sound like Roronoa; that could have originated by someone mystyping/misreading for l'Ollonois and (b) then has the same kind of romanisation issue as Levely/Reverie.
-
I got a funny anecdote: Since I started to read the german translated One Piece manga around 2003 (published by Carlsen there), Roronoa was translated there into "Lorenor".
So back then I thought Zoro was based on "Zorro" and "Lorena Bobbit".Francois l'Ollonais does make more sense though.
-
(a) shouldn't sound like Roronoa; that could have originated by someone mystyping/misreading for l'Ollonois
Actually, several wikipedia pages claime that he was also called l'Olonnais, l'Olonnois, Lolonois and Lolona, and the japanese wikipedia page translates Lolonois as "Roronoa" ロロノア. So it looks like it's just how one of his names is pronounced in Japan, rather than a mistake particularly made by Oda and his editors.
-
Huh, well then looks like Oda's translations have been biffed from the beginning.
-
It'd be interesting to see which books and sites Oda's visited to gain inspiration, and how their names compare to what's in One Piece. I wonder how much he reads in English or if he sticks to Japanese translations.
Makes me look forward to Elbaf and more of the giants, to see how their names are handled.
-
Actually, several wikipedia pages claime that he was also called l'Olonnais, l'Olonnois, Lolonois and Lolona, and the japanese wikipedia page translates Lolonois as "Roronoa" ロロノア. So it looks like it's just how one of his names is pronounced in Japan, rather than a mistake particularly made by Oda and his editors.
Ah, you're right, I only checked the English wikipedia page, where only the one name is given, but the French one gives those other ones.
-
Is there any manga author who is fluent in another language ? It's odd because the Japanese are supposed to have the best education system in the world, but all the mangakas I can think of can't speak more than 3 words in English
And I doubt that Oda barely did any research for "bour-geoise". It doesn't matter though. It just makes me think about how Togashi called one of his manga "Level E" because he thought alien was spelled "elien"
-
That's a question for Greg if I ever seen one.
-
It's odd because the Japanese are supposed to have the best education system in the world, but all the mangakas I can think of can't speak more than 3 words in English
Sweden is supposed to have the best education system in the world,
and Japanese people don't know how to speak english, because they don't learn how to speak english in school. They learn how to translate english similar how europeanslearn latin, and the japanese people do standardized tests in english, so they just learn the answers by heart to get good grades, but in really have no clue what they are learning.this youtuberis very informative about japanese culture
-
Ah yes, the Levely, my favouite Nep Ece storyline. I think the best character is looks at smudged writing on hand MONKY.D.LUEFY
-
Actually, several wikipedia pages claime that he was also called l'Olonnais, l'Olonnois, Lolonois and Lolona, and the japanese wikipedia page translates Lolonois as "Roronoa" ロロノア. So it looks like it's just how one of his names is pronounced in Japan, rather than a mistake particularly made by Oda and his editors.
It's the ol' Japanese thing where L's and R's sound extremely similar if not identical. Romanization for them really isn't making much difference, but it is for us.
Honestly this would suggest that Roronoa is probably kinda wrong for rendering for us? -
This post is deleted!
-
Elbaf is not represented at the Reviere?
-
Elbaf is not represented at the Reviere?
I think it's heavily implied that Elbaf isn't a member nation of the World Government.
-
One thing that slightly bothers me is the absence of other kind of country representatives besides kings and queens. Many countries affiliated to the WG, like Water 7, are republics. So why shouldn't their presidents, like Iceberg, participate in a reunion to decide the future of the world?
-
OK I have no idea why it was changed from Levely to Lev Ely when the gap in the space was just to prevent part of the word from being swallowed in the crease of the magazine.
-
Oda doesn't make mistakes. Only art.
-
One thing that slightly bothers me is the absence of other kind of country representatives besides kings and queens. Many countries affiliated to the WG, like Water 7, are republics. So why shouldn't their presidents, like Iceberg, participate in a reunion to decide the future of the world?
Isn't Water seven the only place we saw without a monarchy for government? ANd in their case it's seems they are just a city normally but they are so great they got special treatment. Like I doubt Loguetown would be a country by itself.
-
One thing that slightly bothers me is the absence of other kind of country representatives besides kings and queens. Many countries affiliated to the WG, like Water 7, are republics. So why shouldn't their presidents, like Iceberg, participate in a reunion to decide the future of the world?
Since the vast majority of the Reverie participants not having been introduced, we don't know for certain that they are ALL kings and queens…
I would also note that only 50 out of 170 member nations actually get to send representatives to the Reverie, so some of the islands that don't have monarchs may simply not be influential enough to warrant a seat. Case in point, for all Water 7's current value as a shipbuilding powerhouse, it's also an island that was in a prolonged economic collapse until relatively recently (the completion of the Sea Train) due to the island gradually sinking into the sea.
-
Since the vast majority of the Reverie participants not having been introduced, we don't know for certain that they are ALL kings and queens…
I would also note that only 50 out of 170 member nations actually get to send representatives to the Reverie, so some of the islands that don't have monarchs may simply not be influential enough to warrant a seat. Case in point, for all Water 7's current value as a shipbuilding powerhouse, it's also an island that was in a prolonged economic collapse until relatively recently (the completion of the Sea Train) due to the island gradually sinking into the sea.
this bugs me a lot, I think definitely not all the people who can attend are there
as in this old video about the last reverie though ,
around 34 seconds it shows there were only around 20 ppl max in a much smaller table during the last reverie, yet the table is much bigger this time round and have up to 50 ppl this time around -
One thing that slightly bothers me is the absence of other kind of country representatives besides kings and queens. Many countries affiliated to the WG, like Water 7, are republics. So why shouldn't their presidents, like Iceberg, participate in a reunion to decide the future of the world?
Probably because presidents only last a few years, meaning a president would only attend the Reverie once (if we assume a 4-year mandate like in real life, with no re-election). Kings and their interests are longstanding.
-
lev ely
we serious here
is he making up words or…? -
this bugs me a lot, I think definitely not all the people who can attend are there
as in this old video about the last reverie though ,
around 34 seconds it shows there were only around 20 ppl max in a much smaller table during the last reverie, yet the table is much bigger this time round and have up to 50 ppl this time aroundI hate to simply discount it wholesale, but that's imagery from the Drum Island arc which was a LONG time ago - it's almost certain that Oda's idea for the Reverie has evolved in the… looks it up ...~18 years since he first hinted at its existence.
Beyond that, in-universe that Reverie would have been ~12 years ago, if I recall. It's possible the World Government has expanded the number of Reverie participants since then. Or perhaps not all discussions take place before the full council of 50 and they occasionally break up into smaller groups to discuss more local matters (perhaps by region - East Blue Group, Grand Line Group, etc.).
Or alternatively - since we're not shown the full length of the table in Vivi's flashback - we simply don't have a proper count of the number of people who were present back then.
-
this bugs me a lot, I think definitely not all the people who can attend are there
as in this old video about the last reverie though ,
around 34 seconds it shows there were only around 20 ppl max in a much smaller table during the last reverie, yet the table is much bigger this time round and have up to 50 ppl this time aroundIt's 7 days of discussion.It's possible they do different groupings at times.
-
If you want to talk about some minor inconsistencies, that of course are completely logical given the real time that has passed between this first glimpse of reverie on Drum and now, check the same chapter, you can see in the panel where Igaram comforts Vivi after she was slapped by Wapol, that in the distance a sea with a lighthouse and seagulls is shown!
This of course, is false according to the bondola system that we were introduced recently and is the only means to connect the holy city that stands in the top of a huge mountain with the rest of the world. And i think the same detail appears in the chapter where Doffy and Kuma make their first appearance. When they arrive at the holy city, classic marine ships appear before them.
If there is no other explanation and i am not imagining things, i think Oda at first thought to connect the holy city with a water way that would go all the top of the red line like the current in the entrance of the red line. Why he changed his mind though…
-
It's 7 days of discussion.It's possible they do different groupings at times.
Let's be honest, Oda didn't have his footing then, there is no way he could have been consistent with and planned how Reverie is depicted now.
-
Let's be honest, Oda didn't have his footing then, there is no way he could have been consistent with and planned how Reverie is depicted now.
I think people tend to give Oda way to much credit about his planning everything so I'm not saying he planned the reverie to work that way. But I don't think that less kings in one meeting is inconsistent with those rule we were introduced to. It's not like Oda planned that those 10/20 kings were actually in the 5th day and the others were outside because the general matters were already discussed but rather that there's a perfectly valid explanation in those new rule even if Oda didn't think of it.
-
I found it interesting that the word "reverie" can be defined as "a daydream" or "fantastic, visionary, or impractical idea" … with Im being introduced, it makes more sense these meetings being daydreams. With Im probably having the final say in matters, everything the Leaders discuss really doesn't matter anyways
-
Enjoy the Reverie (Not calling it the other name) arc for what it IS. Not for what YOU'VE spent 10+ years thinking what it should be.
-
I think people tend to give Oda way to much credit about his planning everything so I'm not saying he planned the reverie to work that way. But I don't think that less kings in one meeting is inconsistent with those rule we were introduced to. It's not like Oda planned that those 10/20 kings were actually in the 5th day and the others were outside because the general matters were already discussed but rather that there's a perfectly valid explanation in those new rule even if Oda didn't think of it.
sometimes its because of random plot points that he suddenly introduced which there were not a need for that causes these inconsistencies..especially when it comes to numbers. for instance he didn't have to exactly specify "50" representatives, 170 countries and so on? he could have used more than 50 or something like that
-
Since the vast majority of the Reverie participants not having been introduced, we don't know for certain that they are ALL kings and queens…
It's been stated multiple times that the Reverie is for monarchs.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
this bugs me a lot, I think definitely not all the people who can attend are there
as in this old video about the last reverie though ,
around 34 seconds it shows there were only around 20 ppl max in a much smaller table during the last reverie, yet the table is much bigger this time round and have up to 50 ppl this time aroundAnime footage is completely useless and meaningless, it isn't ever evidence of anything.
The manga panels never show the whole table zoomed out or anything like that. -
Why do u have to name the thread like that? Just name it Reverie lol..
-
so… how did shirahoshi go to reverie , again? Pretty sure swimming between islands would be too exhausting
-
so… how did shirahoshi go to reverie , again? Pretty sure swimming between islands would be too exhausting
Fishman Island is right below Mariejois, so her and her family basically just either swam up, or took some sort of large bubble/ship up. And were basically already at Marineford 2.
-
so… how did shirahoshi go to reverie , again? Pretty sure swimming between islands would be too exhausting
@Monkey:
Fishman Island is right below Mariejois, so her and her family basically just either swam up, or took some sort of large bubble/ship up. And were basically already at Marineford 2.
They were shown as having a underwater carriage of sorts (pulled by eels, if I recall correctly) shortly before the Reverie arc started. I want to say chapter 903, maybe? I'll look it up when I get home, but it was when Shirahoshi announced that she wanted to come along.
-
Talkin about the last Reverie on-Panel (8 yrs ago iirc), I wanna see Tarassa Lukas again in this Reverie saying:"I told ya so!" in the Dragon-matter.
Unfortunately, I think he already said that in the Reverie from 4 yrs ago. -
I'm so shocked that we're done with Reverie. I would've never ever guessed Lev Ely would be this short.
=D -
This should still be stickied until it ends.
Anyways just remembered that when Doffy's warlord position was being discused, his final open crime was stealing some celestial money, what poor country did he condemn to be destroyed/abandoned by stealing those taxes? I have to check the timeline in a while to find out.
-
I'm so shocked that we're done with Reverie. I would've never ever guessed Lev Ely would be this short.
=DWe are not done. Stop spouting this garbage.
-
I get the distinct impression that we've seen all of the Reverie we're going to until after the Wano arc is over.
The combination of Wano's isolationism and Sanji/Chopper ruining the newspaper before anything of note could be gleaned from it makes in clear to me that it's been fully shifted to the background. We may get hints as to the fallout if the Marines or Big Mom do show up at some point, but the details will probably be saved for later revelations.
Gonna be a LONG wait… :(
-
I still wonder why Shanks is so trusted by the Gorousei. They found out Buggy was on Roger's ship, so they must have the very same info about Shanks.
Shanks must have earned their respect throughout his pirate career. I imagine he did quite the same as Luffy (freeing countries from pirates and non-WG-affiliated tyrants) without pissing of the WG (like destroying EL, punching a tenryuubito and so on). For reasons I posted weeks/months ago, I think he wanted to talk about Luffy. Either him or Barto. But I am quite certain it ain't about BB. -
I still wonder why Shanks is so trusted by the Gorousei. They found out Buggy was on Roger's ship, so they must have the very same info about Shanks.
Shanks must have earned their respect throughout his pirate career. I imagine he did quite the same as Luffy (freeing countries from pirates and non-WG-affiliated tyrants) without pissing of the WG (like destroying EL, punching a tenryuubito and so on). For reasons I posted weeks/months ago, I think he wanted to talk about Luffy. Either him or Barto. But I am quite certain it ain't about BB.He stopped the war in Marinford single-handedly (and no, I didn't mean that as a joke) and didn't escalate things. That should have earned him all the respect he needed, from everybody. But he's probably there to talk about Blackbeard, Aokiji, Weevil or possibly even Dragon. Someone who's got more going on than even we the readers expect. Maybe even Fujitora, come to think of it. Even more surprising if it's someone within their own ranks. Or Bonney, even.
-
I still wonder why Shanks is so trusted by the Gorousei. They found out Buggy was on Roger's ship, so they must have the very same info about Shanks.
Shanks must have earned their respect throughout his pirate career. I imagine he did quite the same as Luffy (freeing countries from pirates and non-WG-affiliated tyrants) without pissing of the WG (like destroying EL, punching a tenryuubito and so on). For reasons I posted weeks/months ago, I think he wanted to talk about Luffy. Either him or Barto. But I am quite certain it ain't about BB.There's also the thing that Sengoku said to Shanks to Shanks at Marineford something along the lines of "Since it's you, Red hair…"
There could be a certain event that took place in the past. Or a series of events. In any event, Shanks is presented als almost the opposite of Kaido, who wants to start a great War. As someone savvy, diplomatic and charismatic at the same time, who is even able to turn his enemy's into, at least, cooperative persons sometimes.
Kinda like Luffy...
-
This post is deleted!