Silly Happy you're not a Falcon your a cat
Fairy Tail Discussion III
-
-
So, no idea why you think it was handled in worse way.
Because, as I said, it went from tears to gag in a page… at least spare us the tears and leave it as a gag: we know that no one from the main cast will die, dea Mashima, so spare us pathetic panels and go on with the gag you already decided to turn everything into.
Now that I think about it, maybe Mashima was trying to do a parody of the whole Pell thing... or, at least, I hope so: it would make the scene slightly less horrible. -
Wow mashima ripping of pell was the dumbest thing ever.^^ He even managed to make it worse. And afro happy, really?
One does not question the afro.
-
One does not question the afro.
Oh I have the highest respect for the power of the afro, just not when mashima writes about it.^^ BTW what is behind this afro thing, is it something cultural in japan etc or just a one piece ripoff from mashima. Wouldn't be the first. xD
-
So is strongest explosion is not able to kill a cat but it's weaker ones were able to kill the council members and more 100 people.
-
Oh I have the highest respect for the power of the afro, just not when mashima writes about it.^^ BTW what is behind this afro thing, is it something cultural in japan etc or just a one piece ripoff from mashima. Wouldn't be the first. xD
Well, it wasn't the power of Afro, because Happy got the Afro after the explosion and not before!
For what I know is not anything cultural! Afro is a wild and extravagant haircut that was used a lot at the Disco Era and it was originated and predominantly used by Africans and African descendants, a race that is known to be physical stronger than the others.
Conclusion, Having Afro means pass the idea that the person with it is Wild, Extravagant and a Physically Strong person. Oda used that aspect and made a Joke out of it, a very good one.
Fairy tail used the Afro, but I think he doesn't use those aspects. The Joke Mashima does is that when burned the air becomes so crispy that becomes an Afro. -
The Afro saved him, naturally. That was Oda's biggest mistake, not giving Pell an Afro. Had he done that, nobody would've complained about him surviving! :D
-
The Afro saved him, naturally. That was Oda's biggest mistake, not giving Pell an Afro. Had he done that, nobody would've complained about him surviving! :D
The afro activated for a brief second so he could survive. Pell wasn't strong enough to keep the power activated longer.^^
-
So is strongest explosion is not able to kill a cat but it's weaker ones were able to kill the council members and more 100 people.
Yes. We either just witnessed Happy display that he is more durable than those Council members or faster than anyone else in the series. Neither one of those is acceptable to print.
At this point Hiro might as well justify everything that has happened by saying friendship/love/bonds = magical power and that's why these dark guilds, no matter the hype or build up, always get trounced by Fairy Tail and if enough people care about you a lot then you can never die, even if you do die fate will let some time manipulating emo resurrect you a chapter later. Eventually Zeref will be eating Fairy Cakes at the Guild Hall.
-
The reason Pells survival was bad was because he had such an amazing, fitting, well-made sacrifice, full of symbolism.
This doesn't even have that; its just a big, fat EH.
I don't know which is worse though; the scene that never tried, or the scene that invalidated an amazing other scene?
-
To be fair to Fairy Tail, (which I probably shouldn't be) Pell was a lot more expendable than the protagonist's sidekick pet thing.
-
too little fan service in this chapter!
-
Am I the only one here who saw this as a blatant Pell parody?
-
Because, as I said, it went from tears to gag in a page… at least spare us the tears and leave it as a gag: we know that no one from the main cast will die, dea Mashima, so spare us pathetic panels and go on with the gag you already decided to turn everything into.
Now that I think about it, maybe Mashima was trying to do a parody of the whole Pell thing... or, at least, I hope so: it would make the scene slightly less horrible.Aw, come on, if there were no tears, you or others would say "Nah, their comrade just exploded, and they don't even react, so much for friendship, Mashima fucking hypocrite".
As was rightly said, scene that never tried. Still mediocre, but lack of flaw>blatant flaw (which was Pell). -
Aw, come on, if there were no tears, you or others would say "Nah, their comrade just exploded, and they don't even react, so much for friendship, Mashima fucking hypocrite".
As was rightly said, scene that never tried. Still mediocre, but lack of flaw>blatant flaw (which was Pell).I can't see how "Oh, just an afro" is better than "hospitalized and sent far away".
Probably you're really angry, because the Pell explosion was made very well and was really impactful, but it seemed all fake after knowing that he was really alive.
Don't forget that what made the Pell moment good wasn't that he was dead, but everything about it. The stakes, the sentimentalism, the sacrifice and the reaction of the people that were watching him doing it(Vivi and the others) and the after effect(everything that happened next). That happened and him being dead or alive don't remove from that moment.While Pell moment was executed very well and really climatic, Fairy Tail was the total opposite! It was too fast(one page about the explosion, next with Happy taking him and their reaction, next with explosion, next with their reaction after the explosion and him showed safe), without any emotional investment(unless like them you were emotional invested in the buildings) and later in the same page where the dramatic reactions of the after explosion was shown it was shown as a gag.
- Was Pell not death confirmed in How many chapters after is supposedly death? 10 chapters, 2.5 months, following volume! And it was showed in a overall happy moment(the end of the arc).
-Was Happy not death confirmed in How many chapters after is supposedly death? 0 chapters, in the same chapter! And it was shown as a gag, right after the dramatic moment of the possibility of him being dead.
-
How come no one thinks to assume Pell wasn't at the epicenter of the bomb and was blown away instead? Does no one find it weird that he ended up elsewhere?
-
@•Ace•:
How come no one thinks to assume Pell wasn't at the epicenter of the bomb and was blown away instead? Does no one find it weird that he ended up elsewhere?
Because people have thought of it and because Pell very clearly had no intention of letting the bomb go just planning to fly up as high as he could with it.
-
Because people have thought of it and because Pell very clearly had no intention of letting the bomb go just planning to fly up as high as he could with it.
Pell ending up elsewhere cancels your argument.
-
I reaad few pages of the latest chapter just because.
I swear, I am so pissed.. what the fuck is wrong with this Hiro dude anyway?
-
@•Ace•:
Pell ending up elsewhere cancels your argument.
However you want to justify Pell surviving for you.
-
That happened and him being dead or alive don't remove from that moment.
It does. From reader point of view it really does. Here lies the main difference in those two scenes.
What does Pell survival adds to the plot? Not much. Basically nothing. He is just that guy who didn't die and everyone is happy.
However moment of sacrifice itself lost a lot of weight. (Nah, he is still alive anyway).Meanwhile nobody in their right mind could think that Happy will die, so lingering on that for more than couple panels would actually make things worse.
Besides scene of sacrifice had no weight at all (not a lot of scenes in FT have it anyway).In comparison between those two scenes, one was ultimately undermined, and other stayed on it's own level because didn't try to achieve unachievable.
So I can't see how it's "worse". FT is worse than OP in general. But in Happy vs Pell, Happy wins by making less damage. -
It does. From reader point of view it really does. Here lies the main difference in those two scenes.
What does Pell survival adds to the plot? Not much. Basically nothing. He is just that guy who didn't die and everyone is happy.
However moment of sacrifice itself lost a lot of weight. (Nah, he is still alive anyway).Meanwhile nobody in their right mind could think that Happy will die, so lingering on that for more than couple panels would actually make things worse.
Besides scene of sacrifice had no weight at all (not a lot of scenes in FT have it anyway).In comparison between those two scenes, one was ultimately undermined, and other stayed on it's own level because didn't try to achieve unachievable.
So I can't see how it's "worse". FT is worse than OP in general. But in Happy vs Pell, Happy wins by making less damage.Tell me, did those 9 chapters before the reveal that Pell was alive had any additional impact to you, at the moment that you were reading them, because of Pell death? I believe they did, at least for me they did.
A past reading/watching experience can't be modified, by what you know in the present. So your first experience of those 9 chapters are what they were and the information in the 10th chapter didn't changed that. -
Finally read the chapter. It wasn't that bad. It is not like Mashima tried to make the thing dramatic. He wanted to get rid of the villain and made him blow himself up while making the Happy gag.
-
So I can't see how it's "worse". FT is worse than OP in general. But in Happy vs Pell, Happy wins by making less damage.
It's not worse, it's just a flat zero. Mashima present it to the readers and gain nothing / 0 point. While Pell's scene received varies of scores from the readers.
-
Tell me, did those 9 chapters before the reveal that Pell was alive had any additional impact to you, at the moment that you were reading them, because of Pell death? I believe they did, at least for me they did.
A past reading/watching experience can't be modified, by what you know in the present. So your first experience of those 9 chapters are what they were and the information in the 10th chapter didn't changed that.But it can! Tell me, if there were no additional 9 chapters, and Pell was shown alive a page after explosion, how would you feel about sacrifice?
It's not a sacrifice anymore, not in general sense. Its value is lessened immensely for a lot of people. Such plot point does, and always will look very awkward in series where people die only in very special ocassions.It's not worse, it's just a flat zero. Mashima present it to the readers and gain nothing / 0 point. While Pell's scene received varies of scores from the readers.
Yep. And some of those scores are negative. A lot of them actually.
I was just confused at people who say "worse than Pell", while a) Pell is a very controversal point by itself b) Mashima wasn't trying anything remotely like that. Nitpicking on FT is understandable, but some really go very far, looking for flaws and comparisons with OP. -
Yep. And some of those scores are negative. A lot of them actually.
I was just confused at people who say "worse than Pell", while a) Pell is a very controversal point by itself b) Mashima wasn't trying anything remotely like that. Nitpicking on FT is understandable, but some really go very far, looking for flaws and comparisons with OP.Some of the scores are negative, and the rest is positive. It's gain score. The negative scores need 10 or 11 weeks to come up.
Mashima did trying to achieve something there. The sacrifice, the explotion, the shock, the other cat's tear, … it's not your usual shonen moment and he's definitely not trying to make OP's parody. It's just flat. Maybe it'll be good in anime, but it's a fail moment in the manga.
-
It does. From reader point of view it really does. Here lies the main difference in those two scenes.
What does Pell survival adds to the plot? Not much. Basically nothing. He is just that guy who didn't die and everyone is happy.
However moment of sacrifice itself lost a lot of weight. (Nah, he is still alive anyway).Meanwhile nobody in their right mind could think that Happy will die, so lingering on that for more than couple panels would actually make things worse.
Besides scene of sacrifice had no weight at all (not a lot of scenes in FT have it anyway).In comparison between those two scenes, one was ultimately undermined, and other stayed on it's own level because didn't try to achieve unachievable.
So I can't see how it's "worse". FT is worse than OP in general. But in Happy vs Pell, Happy wins by making less damage.I really disagree with this. The dude is about to be a part of one of the most important plot points in OP and Im fairly certain Oda will give him a big role.
-
@•Ace•:
I really disagree with this. The dude is about to be a part of one of the most important plot points in OP and Im fairly certain Oda will give him a big role.
Oh yeah that's true.
I'm not sure if that's worse or better. Will be hilarious if he actually dies later on.
-
Fairy Tail is now worse than Bleach imo.
-
Well, I think that Fairy Tail was never supposed to be taken seriously (or, at least, not that seriously), so I'd say it's still no so bad as a manga, which was supposed to be taken seriously, but went horribly downhill. Maybe. It tried to be an aborted son of Dragonball and One Piece, but failed.
Bottom line, Fairy Tail and Bleach/Naruto are both bad manga, now, but in a different way and for a different reason. Like eating shit and being kicked in the balls: both bad things, but in a different way. -
RIP Jackal. Forever humiliated.
-
RIP Jackal. Forever humiliated.
You think he really died? Or at least, will remain dead? Lol.
-
It felt like reading the first transformation of Rob Lucci again.
Then Pell makes an appearance.
FT=badOP -
You think he really died? Or at least, will remain dead? Lol.
Lol I forgot no one dies in FT
-
remember when mr 2 had a heroic sacrifice in OP and was guaranteed to die only he didn't because Oda copped out on that after the time skip….........yeah that's how this chapter made me feel. Happy's afro was funny though
Even if its happy it would be nice to see Mashima not resort to gags like that that stuff happens a lot on in One Piece and the story suffers from it. FT does not need another generic outcome added. -
Well, I think that Fairy Tail was never supposed to be taken seriously (or, at least, not that seriously), so I'd say it's still no so bad as a manga, which was supposed to be taken seriously, but went horribly downhill. Maybe. It tried to be an aborted son of Dragonball and One Piece, but failed.
Bottom line, Fairy Tail and Bleach/Naruto are both bad manga, now, but in a different way and for a different reason. Like eating shit and being kicked in the balls: both bad things, but in a different way.What do you mean by taking seriously? Gag manga? I take the Gags in the Gag mangas really seriously!
Any history, doesn't matter the genre, must keep his fiction(rules) and make his events well. It doesn't matter which kind of manga it is, if it changes from Drama to Comedy in an anti-climatic manner is Bad. And is bad if the Drama and Comedy are badly made. That is true to "series to take seriously" like Attack on Titan, Berserk, Da Vinci Code, Lord of the Rings, … and true to "series to not taking seriously" like Fairy Tail, Gintama, Assassination Classroom, Donald Duck, Asterix and Obelix.
Conclusion, a bad writing is bad doesn't matter what kind of story and a good writing is good doesn't matter what kind of story. "this series is not supposed to be taken seriously" IS NOT A JUSTIFICATION!!!
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
remember when mr 2 had a heroic sacrifice in OP and was guaranteed to die only he didn't because Oda copped out on that after the time skip….........yeah that's how this chapter made me feel. Happy's afro was funny though
Even if its happy it would be nice to see Mashima not resort to gags like that that stuff happens a lot on in One Piece and the story suffers from it. FT does not need another generic outcome added.Guaranteed to die? When? The only thing that I see was Magellan asking for his last words! Being Magellan a warden he could Kill Him or imprisoning him. The Guarantee was only made in your mind, not in the story!
-
Guaranteed to die? When? The only thing that I see was Magellan asking for his last words! Being Magellan a warden he could Kill Him or imprisoning him. The Guarantee was only made in your mind, not in the story!
Exactly.^^ And even though he didn't die the emotional impact was there. The Mr. 2 scene and the happy scene are not even remotely comparable.
-
But it can! Tell me, if there were no additional 9 chapters, and Pell was shown alive a page after explosion, how would you feel about sacrifice?
It's not a sacrifice anymore, not in general sense. Its value is lessened immensely for a lot of people. Such plot point does, and always will look very awkward in series where people die only in very special ocassions."But it can!" -> Ah, you found a time Machine and now you can travel to the past and change your reading/watching experience. Good for you!
General sense of the world sacrifice??? The world Sacrifice has nothing to do with the end result. You sacrifice something and that thing can be or not removed from you. The truth is that Pell gave is life in order to safe his country! If he dies or not doesn't take any thing of what he did!
The problem with Pell and Happy is not that they are alive(if you don't like it, then is your choice). The problem is how the sacrifice was presented, the impact it made in the other characters in the series, how was showed the revelation that he was in fact alive and how was later explained.
Pell sacrifice was presented masterfully. The impact in the characters in the series and the readers was near to perfection(if not perfection :P). The revelation was really well made, even if you don't like the revelation, is hard to argue that there was a better place to make it. Unfortunately it wasn't really explained how did he survived, maybe Oda will explain later, maybe not, the truth is that it was left as a mystery(given this kind of event, Sacrifice-Explosion-Survive, is not rare and is normally left as a mystery, I believe Oda will left that like that).
Happy sacrifice was presented in a rush and with misdirected focus(Happy wanted to safe the City, "Buildings", instead of their lives). The impact made in the other characters was so rushed too(one panel for each reaction(two for charlie) and in the same page was shown that he was already save and their happy reactions). The revelation was very misplaced and anti-climatic(being used as a joke, with the afro thing). There was made no explanation about how he survived, with a afro, but that Mashima can explain next chapter(I bet that he will not explain in the least). -
Guaranteed to die? When? The only thing that I see was Magellan asking for his last words! Being Magellan a warden he could Kill Him or imprisoning him. The Guarantee was only made in your mind, not in the story!
I'm pretty sure a warden asking a prisoner who is escaping for his last words right before attacking him is a death flag its like you're ignoring the fact he had been trying to kill Luffy and co almost since the moment he encountered them. They even had luffy and co question if he survived. Bon Clay still being alive completely ruined the emotional impact of that scene unless you subscribe to the belief that as long as an author pretends to kill a character it makes these types of gags okay.
Considering Oda killed Ace in that same arc but for some reason copped out on having Bon Clay be killed by Magellan makes the gag even more disappointing. -
Bon Clay situation wasn't even remotley a gag situation.
Besides teach was also about to leave Impel Down, he and his crew could have incapicitated Magallen because I doubt he wouldn't let them go away and what a better siuation for a sneak attack than one he is full focus on a different person. -
Nope, killing Bon Clay is more important than dealing with lvl. 5 escapee…
-
Nope, killing Bon Clay is more important than dealing with lvl. 5 escapee…
Bon Clay was right next to him besides nobody was expecting Shillew to switch sides.
-
Nope, killing Bon Clay is more important than dealing with lvl. 5 escapee…
I suppose you mean level 6. But Non Clay was just in front of him and a fast job. There is no particular reason to rush there without killing Bentham.
-
Bon Clay was right next to him besides nobody was expecting Shillew to switch sides.
Well, the situation wasn't clear. Maybe there's a den2 mushi call to update Shillew BB status, or not… . They still have the monitor room, right?
I suppose you mean level 6. But Non Clay was just in front of him and a fast job. There is no particular reason to rush there without killing Bentham.
But there's a reason to not kill Bon Clay…
-
The afro activated for a brief second so he could survive. Pell wasn't strong enough to keep the power activated longer.^^
Haha, probably :D
-
I'm pretty sure a warden asking a prisoner who is escaping for his last words right before attacking him is a death flag.
Yep, You're wrong!!!
-
@•Ace•:
I really disagree with this. The dude is about to be a part of one of the most important plot points in OP and Im fairly certain Oda will give him a big role.
Being one of Vivi's bodyguards during a political meeting doesn't sound very promising.
-
@•Ace•:
How come no one thinks to assume Pell wasn't at the epicenter of the bomb and was blown away instead? Does no one find it weird that he ended up elsewhere?
The only way Pell would have not been at the epicenter of the bomb would be if he'd let it go. Or somehow fumbled it.
Both huge insults to his character, and farrrrrrr more detrimental to his sacrifical scene than him tanking the blast (and thus rendering the bombs threat level void).Pell survived, because Oda wanted him to survive.
Pell ended up far away, because it made narrative sense to postpone the reveal of his survival, and that meant he had to wind up outside the city.
Thats all there is to it.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Tell me, did those 9 chapters before the reveal that Pell was alive had any additional impact to you, at the moment that you were reading them, because of Pell death? I believe they did, at least for me they did.
A past reading/watching experience can't be modified, by what you know in the present. So your first experience of those 9 chapters are what they were and the information in the 10th chapter didn't changed that.Its true Pells sacrifice evoked a positive reading experience the first time you read it- assuming you didn't know any better than to think him dead. But the scene will never get that response ever again, and is countered by an equally negative experience upon his survival: The sacrifice was negated? All the drama and symbolism amonted to a torso scar? What?
And now, upon any reread of Alabasta, you will read the scene, shake your head at all the drama and soaring emotions on display, because you know its undone later. That Pell Intended to sacrifice himself doesn't matter; that was not what the scene was telling us. Its like if a story pulls the "it was all a dream!" excuse to undo dramatic events: how do they maintain emotional stakes, if they ultimately are revealed to have had none?What this come down to is: does the narrow window of Pells sacrifice being an emotional impactful scene outweigh the backslash from its negation? If so, it trumps the Happy scenes flat line of no fucks given whatsoever.
For me, I'm propably overall more frustrated by the pell debacle, because I felt Oda undermined both the most clear-cut fatal noble sacrifice he could ever make, as well as the overall stakes of the Alabasta climax. I know Pell was a strong soldier more durable than average yo, but when the villains plan involve incenerating +2 million people with a bomb, showing a protagonist tanking the blast at point blank range removes the threat level from said bomb. Its not enough that the ordinary bystanders could have died, the heroes need to be in danger too.
-
@The:
The only way Pell would have not been at the epicenter of the bomb would be if he'd let it go. Or somehow fumbled it.
Both huge insults to his character, and farrrrrrr more detrimental to his sacrifical scene than him tanking the blast (and thus rendering the bombs threat level void).Pell survived, because Oda wanted him to survive.
Pell ended up far away, because it made narrative sense to postpone the reveal of his survival, and that meant he had to wind up outside the city.
Thats all there is to it.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Its true Pells sacrifice evoked a positive reading experience the first time you read it- assuming you didn't know any better than to think him dead. But the scene will never get that response ever again, and is countered by an equally negative experience upon his survival: The sacrifice was negated? All the drama and symbolism amonted to a torso scar? What?
And now, upon any reread of Alabasta, you will read the scene, shake your head at all the drama and soaring emotions on display, because you know its undone later. That Pell Intended to sacrifice himself doesn't matter; that was not what the scene was telling us. Its like if a story pulls the "it was all a dream!" excuse to undo dramatic events: how do they maintain emotional stakes, if they ultimately are revealed to have had none?What this come down to is: does the narrow window of Pells sacrifice being an emotional impactful scene outweigh the backslash from its negation? If so, it trumps the Happy scenes flat line of no fucks given whatsoever.
For me, I'm propably overall more frustrated by the pell debacle, because I felt Oda undermined both the most clear-cut fatal noble sacrifice he could ever make, as well as the overall stakes of the Alabasta climax. I know Pell was a strong soldier more durable than average yo, but when the villains plan involve incenerating +2 million people with a bomb, showing a protagonist tanking the blast at point blank range removes the threat level from said bomb. Its not enough that the ordinary bystanders could have died, the heroes need to be in danger too.
I don't think Pell letting to of the bomb would be an insult to his character. If I were in Pell's position, I would fly up with the explosive thinking of survival not death, but say what I can now just in case things don't work out the way I want to so I don't cause more pain for the one I'm protecting.
-
@•Ace•:
I don't think Pell letting to of the bomb would be an insult to his character. If I were in Pell's position, I would fly up with the explosive thinking of survival not death, but say what I can now just in case things don't work out the way I want to so I don't cause more pain for the one I'm protecting.
I don't think that the time frame of one second till the bomb explodes gives you any hopes for survival tbh.