[Theory] The Inherited Will, "One Piece"

[D.aelthasaar]

@Monkey:

ALL of my "AK was evil" talk is entirely confined to this thread and Ashura Fisher King's description of them.

Ok, fair enough :)

By OP world do you mean the Grand Line? Because NONE of that is a feature of the Blues. Which are by far most of the world.

Well, the grand line accounts for at least a 10% of OP world.
An anomaly on 10% of "something" is a sensible anomaly to take into account.

How the heck are you comparing a dam to the destruction of an entire continent lol.

I'm talking about the fact that important historic landmarks had to be moved because because the construction of the dam was important for the economy and lives of the Egyptian people, that's what I compare, the meaning of the dam, not the dam itself.
And anyway for this theory I'm taking into account destroying only Reverse Mountain and Marijoa, not the whole RedLine.

The destruction of the Grand Line would negatively impact various islands like Saobody, Loguetown, Jaya, and Water7. Their economies would be severely hurt.

Indeed, in the first years, mostly for Loguetown, Shabaody and Jaya which relies on commerce with Pirates, though they could revert to tourism as places where the Pirate King had accomplished great achievements.
Water 7 would receive a major imput in building ships since navigation would be easier.

The WG has never shown in the modern story a fear of cultures getting close at all. They were clearly trying hard to improve things on the racial front (over their past mistakes I imagine). We had an unknown World Noble give Otohime a signature. And we had Jimbei's recruitment as Shichi, something the Gorusei lamented the loss of.

Often WG is messed with World Nobles which are the real problem.
We still donìt know clearly the relation between WG and WN.

Wano is the ONLY example we've ever been given unless Skypiea be counted. The implication so far has been that places outside the WG are probably insubstantial forces.

Well, it's said that Marines are scared about Wano warriors, and I think Kin'emon isn't one of the strongest.

The main reason I'm calling it eco-terrorism was detailed earlier in the thread.

I missed it sorry :)

[Monkey King]

@loony:

I think it's obvious… freedom for every one to travel through the world...

This is a really stupid argument.
The thing that is making it hard to travel around isn't the geography's fault, it's the government's for holding a firm monopoly on travel into the Grand and presumably from North/East Blues into West/South Blues.
Egypt controls the Suez canal, let's say Egypt becomes the basis of a world encompassing government. Now going from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean is way harder because they're huge assholes about using the canal. Is the solution to this problem to BLOW UP AFRICA AND WEST ASIA??
That's the basically what the theory is saying!

Also really? Freedom of movement? Doesn't that sound really…shallow for a freedom theme? Especially given that the Strawhats and other pirates are already perfectly capable of having their adventures with Red Line or without it. In fact the Grand Line supports an incredibly adventurous environment.
If Luffy was given the choice between a Red Lineless/Grand Lineless world where you just randomly go to any island, and not the horribly challenging journey. He would pick the challenging route in a HEARTBEAT.
I mean this isn't even about freedom, you're talking about making things EASIER, not freer lol.

and yes I meant many thousand years ago… then 900 years ago the AK tried to turn it back to it's original form but somehow failed to do so.

…uh what are you talking about. And actually I should have said many millions, as in, way before humans would even exist. Dinosaurs and all.
But again, what are you talking about. I don't even think you know what this part I quoted even means.

if all seas had this kind of climate I wouldn't say that(then I would have thought: well, this is how it goes in One piece, it is how the world in One piece is)… but this kind of climate, only belongs to Grandline... and the question is why? Why is it different from the other seas? unless it was not that way to begin with and something altered it's weather condition.(again it's just a hypothesis :D)

First off, I don't think you know what a climate is. The Grand Line features like a billion different climates depending on the island. Not one.
And again, Little Garden specifically exists because of geographic isolation, with dinosaurs. Nami specifically refers to stuff on the island as pre-historic. So does Kureha when talking about the bug that bit Nami. The environment of Little Garden would have to have existed as such since before humans. And DEFINITELY before human civilization.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@D.aelthasaar:

Well, the grand line accounts for at least a 10% of OP world.
An anomaly on 10% of "something" is a sensible anomaly to take into account.

10% of the world =/= the world.
Which was what you said no?

I'm talking about the fact that important historic landmarks had to be moved because because the construction of the dam was important for the economy and lives of the Egyptian people, that's what I compare, the meaning of the dam, not the dam itself.
And anyway for this theory I'm taking into account destroying only Reverse Mountain and Marijoa, not the whole RedLine.

Ashura's theory involved the whole Red Line. fyi
I'm not entirely adverse to the idea of just specific parts being destroyed. But the idea of the Grand Line being destroyed doesn't sit right with me.
And even more so the idea that punching holes in the Red Line is the big idea of the series I absolutely disagree with. It seems more like something that would happened for some other reason during the finale.

Indeed, in the first years, mostly for Loguetown, Shabaody and Jaya which relies on commerce with Pirates, though they could revert to tourism as places where the Pirate King had accomplished great achievements.

Countries that rely on tourism are not happy countries. Not even close to it. Especially tourism based on "some guy walked through here once" rather than actual ruins, monuments, or natural wonders. So basically no, that wouldn't save their economies whatsoever.

Often WG is messed with World Nobles which are the real problem.
We still donìt know clearly the relation between WG and WN.

What matters is the Gorusei are the ones who showed such racial peace interests. As they are the supreme leaders of the government.

[Ashura_KingFisher]

@Monkey:

Ashura's theory involved the whole Red Line. fyi
I'm not entirely adverse to the idea of just specific parts being destroyed. But the idea of the Grand Line being destroyed doesn't sit right with me.
And even more so the idea that punching holes in the Red Line is the big idea of the series I absolutely disagree with. It seems more like something that would happened for some other reason during the finale.

Actually the theory involved Rev mountain and FI/Mariejoa only.

Honestly though, I don't understand why some people are so against the grand line being normal as a conclusion. It's not like the series would last forever and the pirate age will eventually come to an end at some point of OPverse' timeline. It's much more reallistic that way.

[square]

@Ashura_KingFisher:

Actually the theory involved Rev mountain and FI/Mariejoa only.

Honestly though, I don't understand why some people are so against the grand line being normal as a conclusion. It's not like the series would last forever and the pirate age will eventually come to an end at some point of OPverse' timeline. It's much more reallistic that way.

I guess it's kind of disappointing. Roger creates a whole new pirate era while Luffy almost completely kills the concept of adventure?

I imagine Oda could make it work by showing an epilogue where everyone is happy and pirate/oppression free, but personally I'm hoping for something different.

[D.aelthasaar]

@Monkey:

10% of the world =/= the world.
Which was what you said no?

Yes, though if a guy, let's say…has 6 fingers in a hand, we say that his body has an anomaly.
Yes, we can further restrict to say only his hand has an anomaly, but we would start an argument about the colour of angel piss or the taste of fried air.

Ashura's theory involved the whole Red Line. fyi
I'm not entirely adverse to the idea of just specific parts being destroyed. But the idea of the Grand Line being destroyed doesn't sit right with me.
And even more so the idea that punching holes in the Red Line is the big idea of the series I absolutely disagree with. It seems more like something that would happened for some other reason during the finale.

One of us read it wrong then.
I read the whole thread a couple of months ago and can't remember exactly.
I remember it being only about the Reverse Mountain and Fishman Island.
I might be wrong but I am not willingly to read all again LOL
Anyway yeah, the Red Line being completely destroyed doesn't ring to me either and yeah, punching those holes is not the ONLY objective of what happens after finding the Rio Poneyglyph.

Countries that rely on tourism are not happy countries. Not even close to it. Especially tourism based on "some guy walked through here once" rather than actual ruins, monuments, or natural wonders. So basically no, that wouldn't save their economies whatsoever.

I think our passion for the manga derails us into territories that Oda himself wouldn't think much relevant to the story.
Anyway, yes, tourism is NOT as profitable as an economy based on supporting crime and/or warfare.
Though relying on crime/warfare means the "island economy" must have a way to fuel crime/warfare to keep the market stable and safe.
In the end what would be true is that lots of Island/Countries should rebuild their economic system on a healthy and stable structure.
Which in our particular historic moment filled of economic crisis due to economies inflated with specualations COULD be an idea that Oda COULD throw in.

What matters is the Gorusei are the ones who showed such racial peace interests. As they are the supreme leaders of the government.

I think we don't have so many elements to picture Gorosei's plan and ties.
At least I don't think I have.
So far I see them between the hammer (World Nobles) and the anvil (people of the seas) doing their best in trying to crowd control the situation.

[loony]

@Monkey:

This is a really stupid argument.
The thing that is making it hard to travel around isn't the geography's fault, it's the government's for holding a firm monopoly on travel into the Grand and presumably from North/East Blues into West/South Blues.
Egypt controls the Suez canal, let's say Egypt becomes the basis of a world encompassing government. Now going from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean is way harder because they're huge assholes about using the canal. Is the solution to this problem to BLOW UP AFRICA AND WEST ASIA??
That's the basically what the theory is saying!

Also really? Freedom of movement? Doesn't that sound really…shallow for a freedom theme? Especially given that the Strawhats and other pirates are already perfectly capable of having their adventures with Red Line or without it. In fact the Grand Line supports an incredibly adventurous environment.
If Luffy was given the choice between a Red Lineless/Grand Lineless world where you just randomly go to any island, and not the horribly challenging journey. He would pick the challenging route in a HEARTBEAT.
I mean this isn't even about freedom, you're talking about making things EASIER, not freer lol.

...uh what are you talking about. And actually I should have said many millions, as in, way before humans would even exist. Dinosaurs and all.
But again, what are you talking about. I don't even think you know what this part I quoted even means.

First off, I don't think you know what a climate is. The Grand Line features like a billion different climates depending on the island. Not one.
And again, Little Garden specifically exists because of geographic isolation, with dinosaurs. Nami specifically refers to stuff on the island as pre-historic. So does Kureha when talking about the bug that bit Nami. The environment of Little Garden would have to have existed as such since before humans. And DEFINITELY before human civilization.

actually I was trying to say,lets say 20.000 years ago the grandline didn't operate in this way, then for example 10,000 years ago it bacame the way it is now… and then 900 years ago AK tried to turn it back to the way it was 20.000 years ago.
but now the whole little garden thing made me realize that I was mistaken:D
you are right about that...
.....................

about the freedom:
if I put up a high wall around your country and only a gate for you to cross over it, doesn't it effect your freedom?
perhaps we have different kind of view about it...
(you see...I mean something like Berlin Wall... not just that horrible...)

[Monkey King]

@D.aelthasaar:

Yes, though if a guy, let's say…has 6 fingers in a hand, we say that his body has an anomaly.
Yes, we can further restrict to say only his hand has an anomaly, but we would start an argument about the colour of angel piss or the taste of fried air.

Except we aren't talking about one person but the entire population of the planet. For people living in the Blues, all of which look massive. How much of a big deal is it really that the Grand Line is as it is? In terms of the weather stuff? Probably not at all.

I think our passion for the manga derails us into territories that Oda himself wouldn't think much relevant to the story.

Oda has clearly shown awareness of stuff like that.
Water7 had protocols in place for pirate business, the Loguetown merchant complained about Smoker chasing away his best customers, even Fishman Island was stated as having lots of benefits from the stream of visitors (once they've been made to behave of course). Jaya is self-evident.

Anyway, yes, tourism is NOT as profitable as an economy based on supporting crime and/or warfare.
Though relying on crime/warfare means the "island economy" must have a way to fuel crime/warfare to keep the market stable and safe.
In the end what would be true is that lots of Island/Countries should rebuild their economic system on a healthy and stable structure.
Which in our particular historic moment filled of economic crisis due to economies inflated with specualations COULD be an idea that Oda COULD throw in.

Are you suggesting the only alternative to tourism is crime and war?? wtf lol

I think we don't have so many elements to picture Gorosei's plan and ties.

They are the supreme leaders. That says quite a lot.
And we know enough to know they aren't trying to separate cultures. So that argument is kaput.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@loony:

about the freedom:
if I put up a high wall around your country and only a gate for you to cross over it, doesn't it effect your freedom?
perhaps we have different kind of view about it…
(you see...I mean something like Berlin Wall... not just that horrible...)

Except we're talking about natural landforms.

[loony]

@Monkey:

Except we're talking about natural landforms.

I know.. but even if natural landforms suppress our way, we overcome them…

for example if a mountain suppress our way, we make a tunnel.

[Monkey King]

@loony:

I know.. but even if natural landforms suppress our way, we overcome them…

for example if a mountain suppress our way, we make a tunnel.

But we're discussing BLOWING UP the mountain.

[loony]

@Monkey:

But we're discussing BLOWING UP the mountain.

and sometimes even eradicate the mountain :D

I agree with just destroying Reverse mountain and Marijoa, not the whole redline.

I don't see any other reason for luffy to destroy fish man island…

[Monkey King]

@loony:

and sometimes even eradicate the mountain :D

Please cite a mountain, like mountain mountain. That was blown up.

[loony]

it was meant as a joke :))))))))))))))
….........

when we are talking about a mountain,making a tunnel is enough... but in a larger scale,when we are talking about the Red line(which is so big that can be considered a continent) Reverse Mountain can be considered a tunnel

[Monkey King]

@loony:

it was meant as a joke :))))))))))))))
….........

when we are talking about a mountain,making a tunnel is enough... but in a larger scale,when we are talking about the Red line(which is so big that can be considered a continent) Reverse Mountain can be considered a tunnel

The Red Line has only been displayed to block people at the mountainous areas around the Grand Line.
Both of which have methods of crossing. Reverse Mountain has the canals.
And Mariejois side has some method of crossing as well, plus the Fishman Island tunnel.

So this just brings things back to my original point. That there are already ways to cross. The real problem is the monopoly on them.

[loony]

@Monkey:

The Red Line has only been displayed to block people at the mountainous areas around the Grand Line.
Both of which have methods of crossing. Reverse Mountain has the canals.
And Mariejois side has some method of crossing as well, plus the Fishman Island tunnel.

So this just brings things back to my original point. That there are already ways to cross. The real problem is the monopoly on them.

and there can't be a normal navigation…
what if by destroying RM and MJ, the Grandline would become normal?
I know that it would be somehow boring... but I can assure you 80% of the population would appreciate that...

[Monkey King]

@loony:

and there can't be a normal navigation…

Destroying nature when it's inconvenient is a really bad idea.

what if by destroying RM and MJ, the Grandline would become normal?
I know that it would be somehow boring… but I can assure you 80% of the population would appreciate that...

Economies would collapse on many islands, the climates created by that strange weather would go away causing massive environmental havoc on places like Drum, Little Garden and Alabasta.
Also the adventurous frontier world of the Grand Line seen as a wonderland by our main friggin' character would be destroyed.

[EvoWarrior5]

@Monkey:

Destroying nature when it's inconvenient is a really bad idea.

Economies would collapse on many islands, the climates created by that strange weather would go away causing massive environmental havoc on places like Drum, Little Garden and Alabasta.
Also the adventurous frontier world of the Grand Line seen as a wonderland by our main friggin' character would be destroyed.

We do not know what the Uranus will be yet. Maybe that will be a solution to the weather problems or make sure that they'd stabilise quickly.
At economic problems, I don't know if that would be so bad honestly. We've seen at least one island who was heavily hindered by the Grand Line's climate, and the only reason Water 7 survives is because of the Sea Train.

[Monkey King]

@EvoWarrior5:

We do not know what the Uranus will be yet. Maybe that will be a solution to the weather problems or make sure that they'd stabilise quickly.
At economic problems, I don't know if that would be so bad honestly. We've seen at least one island who was heavily hindered by the Grand Line's climate, and the only reason Water 7 survives is because of the Sea Train.

Dude the weather problems would be directly tied to climate, Sweden isn't going to exist next to Egypt unless there's VERY peculiar circumstances like the Grand Line.
If you destroyed those circumstances you'd be destroying what keeps Drum Drum, and Alabasta Alabasta.

We've seen at least one island who was heavily hindered by the Grand Line's climate,

Which one is that.

and the only reason Water 7 survives is because of the Sea Train.

Wrong. Water 7 had a golden age PRIOR to the shitty times, it's on hard times when Tom was around, and he saves it by expanding trade.

[EvoWarrior5]

@Monkey:

Which one is that.

Don't really feel like looking for the page right now (maybe later though) but it was in the flashback on Fishman Island. People on some island on the GL looked poor and they told Fisher Tiger they couldn't sail for shit so he asked them to bring Koala home.

[Dryish]

That does not really prove anything, though. In fact, it doesn't even hint thematically to the possibility of major climate change and forced adaptation for survival being a big factor in how the world of One Piece has shaped up.

People settle down in very inhospitable environments all the time and suffer, compared to other civilizations that are better off, due to them living in conditions that are not as favourable as some others are. Think of China and then of Greenland, for example. Or of the Northeastern United States and then of Saudi Arabia (which is basically only staying afloat because they have oil). The Oceanian islands and atolls. There are reasons why some of those places have advanced civilization and why the others don't.

That's a historically common practice that has nothing at all to do with changing climates in and of itself. Naturally occurring climate change can exacerbate that situation, to be sure, but correlation definitely does not equal causation in this particular case.

[Monkey King]

@EvoWarrior5:

Don't really feel like looking for the page right now (maybe later though) but it was in the flashback on Fishman Island. People on some island on the GL looked poor and they told Fisher Tiger they couldn't sail for shit so he asked them to bring Koala home.

Some Indian looking people had Koala and said they couldn't take her home because they don't have a Mariner culture.
And?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Dryish:

That does not really prove anything, though. In fact, it doesn't even hint thematically to the possibility of major climate change and forced adaptation for survival being a big factor in how the world of One Piece has shaped up.

People settle down in very inhospitable environments all the time and suffer, compared to other civilizations that are better off, due to them living in conditions that are not as favourable as some others are. Think of China and then of Greenland, for example. Or of the Northeastern United States and then of Saudi Arabia (which is basically only staying afloat because they have oil). The Oceanian islands and atolls. There are reasons why some of those places have advanced civilization and why the others don't.

That's a historically common practice that has nothing at all to do with changing climates in and of itself. Naturally occurring climate change can exacerbate that situation, to be sure, but correlation definitely does not equal causation in this particular case.

Are you responding to me? I seriously can't tell.
If you're saying climate change isn't a big deal (which wouldn't even be naturally occurring in this case) you have another thought coming lol. Especially given the circumstances of a year round snowland being basically right next to a year round scalding desert.

[D.aelthasaar]

@Monkey:

Except we aren't talking about one person but the entire population of the planet. For people living in the Blues, all of which look massive. How much of a big deal is it really that the Grand Line is as it is? In terms of the weather stuff? Probably not at all.

People dies for starving in real world, but since lots of population eats 2 times a day, why should we give a damn?

Oda has clearly shown awareness of stuff like that.
Water7 had protocols in place for pirate business, the Loguetown merchant complained about Smoker chasing away his best customers, even Fishman Island was stated as having lots of benefits from the stream of visitors (once they've been made to behave of course). Jaya is self-evident.

I didn't say Oda doesn't.
I'm saying that maybe we're blowing it out of proportions.

Are you suggesting the only alternative to tourism is crime and war?? wtf lol

Absolutely not, I'll check my post again to see if my Ingrish failed, I encourage you to do the same, because I said that those Island must revert to a sane economic plan not based on unreliable economies like tourism/crime/war.

They are the supreme leaders. That says quite a lot.
And we know enough to know they aren't trying to separate cultures. So that argument is kaput.

As I said, I'm not sure if they're the leaders or the World Nobles' dogs.
Whenever the implications of that tie are revealed I'll be able to give some colour to their actions.
Yup, so far they didn't do anything to separate cultures.

–----------------------------

I raise another question
Why didn't the WG take control of the entrances of Reverse Mountain where they could take care of lots of pirates before they become dangerous?

[Monkey King]

@D.aelthasaar:

People dies for starving in real world, but since lots of population eats 2 times a day, why should we give a damn?

All those poor starving islands like Drum, Alabasta, Water7, Jaya, Long Ring Island, Saobody, Dressrosa…
At what point will it become apparent to you that the problem with the GL you mention doesn't exist?

I didn't say Oda doesn't.
I'm saying that maybe we're blowing it out of proportions.

Do you remember Erumalu in Alabasta?

Absolutely not, I'll check my post again to see if my Ingrish failed, I encourage you to do the same, because I said that those Island must revert to a sane economic plan not based on unreliable economies like tourism/crime/war.

Yes, they will have to change everything they are because some super villain destroyed the world order for pretty much no good reason. Er, to make an already possible thing more convenient.

As I said, I'm not sure if they're the leaders or the World Nobles' dogs.

They're the leaders. "Supreme" is a pretty self-explanatory word.
And their characterization has been anything but "weak bloated lapdog bureaucrats".

I raise another question
Why didn't the WG take control of the entrances of Reverse Mountain where they could take care of lots of pirates before they become dangerous?

Considering they don't appear to have much trouble with even two years ago Supernovas on Saobody, I'm guessing it's not a threat to them.

[loony]

@Monkey:

Destroying nature when it's inconvenient is a really bad idea.

Economies would collapse on many islands, the climates created by that strange weather would go away causing massive environmental havoc on places like Drum, Little Garden and Alabasta.
Also the adventurous frontier world of the Grand Line seen as a wonderland by our main friggin' character would be destroyed.

what you are saying is not illogical at all.
but I still think that the task that should be accomplished in the end is about destroying RV & MJ.
I'm sure we don't know the whole story about the AK yet.
perhaps there are reasons for it we are not aware of!!!
there should be something that made WG attempting for genocide…

[D.aelthasaar]

@Monkey:

All those poor starving islands like Drum, Alabasta, Water7, Jaya, Long Ring Island, Saobody, Dressrosa…
At what point will it become apparent to you that the problem with the GL you mention doesn't exist?

Oh geez, you know we can go about this forever.
It's about the perception of change.
Are you 100% sure that change couldn't bring benefit to those islands?
Like Drum having only one winter season per year would allow them to start agricolture and stuff.
I assure you I totally understand where you come from, and you're right, there will surely be a change, but you can't predict that the change is 100% negative.
It will make things different, harder, maybe more fair/equal.
The theory about Luffy's love for the diversity of the Grand Line, considering it a great place for adventure, and him wanting to keep it as it is stands more stronger than economic problems.
Though, I doubt Luffy would decide to keep things as he likes, if he would get the chance to get things fair for everyone.
Sure it's a hard decision to take, something that must be read through the history of the world, through the Void Century history and a decision maybe even Roger wasn't willing to take.
During his "adventures" Luffy became friends with Kings, Mayors and such, who totally believes in him, and that would make the pill to face a new beginning, a bit less bitter.

Do you remember Erumalu in Alabasta?

Indeed I do.
And I remember an old man restlessly digging a well without losing his hope, because he believed in his land and trusted his own king. ;)
And those are the kind of guy Luffy befriended.

Yes, they will have to change everything they are because some super villain destroyed the world order for pretty much no good reason. Er, to make an already possible thing more convenient.

And again this is possibly the reason why Roger didn't felt to "execute the plan", because he was a mature man and a soon to be father and all those things that makes you think twice about doing stuff.
He probably had self restraints that at the current moment Luffy doesn't seem to have.
Luffy believes so much in his actions to keep Chopper in Foxy's crew to save a horse ;)
He's not afraid of making decisions that seems stupid, wrong or out of place, but pay off in the longer term.

They're the leaders. "Supreme" is a pretty self-explanatory word.
And their characterization has been anything but "weak bloated lapdog bureaucrats".

I'm not biting it.
Can I be wrong about it? ;)

Considering they don't appear to have much trouble with even two years ago Supernovas on Saobody, I'm guessing it's not a threat to them.

But they didn't get rid of them.
So far the only big names that the Marine managed to somehow restrain were Roger (turned himslef), Crocodile (beaten by Luffy) Ace (captured by BB), Jinbe (probably turned himself), Bonney (captured by BB), Buggy and Shiki (caught by the Marine).
To me it seems the Marine should make more prevention.

[knceng]

@D.aelthasaar:

And again this is possibly the reason why Roger didn't felt to "execute the plan", because he was a mature man and a soon to be father and all those things that makes you think twice about doing stuff.
He probably had self restraints that at the current moment Luffy doesn't seem to have.
Luffy believes so much in his actions to keep Chopper in Foxy's crew to save a horse ;)
He's not afraid of making decisions that seems stupid, wrong or out of place, but pay off in the longer term.

Wasn't it because he have that incurable illness? That's why Rayleigh said they saw limit in their journey.
And Ace's born 12 month after Roger turn himself. So, Roger gave up the journey ("execute the plan") and started to think of having a child, not gave up the journey ("execute the plan") because he's gonna have a child.

[Dryish]

@Monkey:

Are you responding to me? I seriously can't tell.
If you're saying climate change isn't a big deal (which wouldn't even be naturally occurring in this case) you have another thought coming lol. Especially given the circumstances of a year round snowland being basically right next to a year round scalding desert.

Lol, sorry, no. I was responding to EvoWarrior right below you, probably should have quoted his post. I'm in full support of your sentiment.

Obviously climate change is a huge issue that has eradicated entire civilizations in the real world (in Mesoamerica, Polynesia, Greenland, etc) and it goes without saying that a global scale climate change would pretty much wreck the world of One Piece and force mass exoduses and a total rearrangement of the world's governmental institutions. I find it quite amusing and yet somewhat saddening that people don't understand that. It practically means a state of anarchy and strife that would potentially last for centuries.

What I'm saying, though, is merely that there is no evidence pointing at the AK having created Red Line and changing the entire global climate, and that people suffering from harsh weather conditions on the Grand Line is caused by natural conditions rather than it being a hint of Oda's imaginary plans of making climate a central issue.

[D.aelthasaar]

@knceng:

Wasn't it because he have that incurable illness? That's why Rayleigh said they saw limit in their journey.
And Ace's born 12 month after Roger turn himself. So, Roger gave up the journey ("execute the plan") and started to think of having a child, not gave up the journey ("execute the plan") because he's gonna have a child.

It's clear from Rayleigh's words that after Raftel, something else, that was up to personal interpretation, had to be done and that's why Roger encouraged people to sail.
The treasure is obviously the bait.
In my humble opinion, the illness only takes a partial account to Roger stopping.
Before turning himself to the Marine, he had already decided his speech on the gallows.

From my math Ace was conceived before Roger reached Raftel and during his last adventure.

[loony]

@D.aelthasaar:

In my humble opinion, the illness only takes a partial account to Roger stopping.

I agree…

@D.aelthasaar:

From my math Ace was conceived before Roger reached Raftel and during his last adventure.

Ace was born 1 year and 3 month after his father death.(15 month)
and it is said that Ace was in his mother's womb for 20 month.
there is five month from when Ace was conceived till Roger's death.
hmm…it's possible...
but I still don't wanna think that Roger reached Raftel after Ace was conceived and found One Piece only 5 month before his death!!!! (or even less than 5 month)!!!

[D.aelthasaar]

Roger recruited Crocus at Reverse Mountain before his last adenture because he was already sick.
High chances are Ace was conceived before his last trip because Baterilla is in South Blue.
5 months from leaving a Blue to Raftel is very reasonable.

[EvoWarrior5]

@loony:

but I still don't wanna think that Roger reached Raftel after Ace was conceived and found One Piece only 5 month before his death!!!! (or even less than 5 month)!!!

Rayleigh said that after Roger had become the Pirate King there was a margin of a year or so before he turned himself in.

[loony]

@EvoWarrior5:

Rayleigh said that after Roger had become the Pirate King there was a margin of a year or so before he turned himself in.

so we reach to this conclusion that it was impossible for Ace to be conceived before Roger had reached Raftel.
so He Finds one piece
then disbands the crew
and goes to Baterilla which is in South Blue.
and then turns himself in.

[D.aelthasaar]

@loony:

so we reach to this conclusion that it was impossible for Ace to be conceived before Roger had reached Raftel.
so He Finds one piece
then disbands the crew
and goes to Baterilla which is in South Blue.
and then turns himself in.

Which is being a dick. :p

[Sereques]

I've been thinking, the ancient civilization that Dr Clover talked about, the people that made the poneglyphs. Is it possible that country was in Raftel?

[loony]

@Sereques:

I've been thinking, the ancient civilization that Dr Clover talked about, the people that made the poneglyphs. Is it possible that country was in Raftel?

I always thought that Raftel was probably a remaining part of the AK.
so, in my opinion,it's plausible.

accordion to Clover Hakase:
"…but what holds the key of solving everything is the name of that once flourishing country...."

and just before he utters the name of that country, Gorosei ordered Him to be shot.
that's why I always thought that perhaps somehow we knew the name of that country...

[Cess0018]

Is this have a connection from the "will of D"?

[SanjiBlackLeg]

Beautifully summed up, if this theory doesn't turn out to be correct, I will eat my doo doo :ninja:

[Monkey King]

@SanjiBlackLeg:

Beautifully summed up, if this theory doesn't turn out to be correct, I will eat my doo doo :ninja:

I'm going to remember this post, and you will have to eat your poop.

[desa]

@Monkey:

I'm going to remember this post, and you will have to eat your poop.

One of you will most likely have disseapear from the website by that time. Or you will simply forget.

[SanjiBlackLeg]

@Monkey:

I'm going to remember this post, and you will have to eat your poop.

What!! you mean you never tasted your own poo poo, dude you haven't lived :O

Put in a frying pan, crack some eggs on top, add some diced onions with a pinch of pepper and throw in some diced red and green peppers and viola, bon appetite messoir :D

I call this master piece, Le poo e toilette shitsu egg supreme :D

[Ravaha]

Ships have to be coated to travel through a small underwater passage that is very very deep in order to get to Fishman Island. The only way to create all Blue is to destroy that barrier.

One thing also left out of that Theory discussion is that Rayleigh decided to spend the rest of his Life on the spot of One Piece. He was sitting their drinking his life away rotting away. Shabondy archipelago has to be of some great importance to him. Garp seemed to also know that Rayleigh has been on the Island the whole time and he told everyone under his command to keep it a secret that Rayliegh resides on the Island. It is the spot that the entire crew was separated, reunited and the spot where they started their Journey into the New World. It could also be the spot where Rayleigh started his Journey with Gol D. Roger. There are so many special things about this place that just adds to the epicness that is what will be the ending of One Piece. Oda has given away too many clues. Oda always follows through with his foreshadowing also. He never puts fake clues out there.

People denying this theory are probably the same people that rejected the following theories as well.
1. Kuma being a revolutionary
2. Mermaid princess being an ancient weapon
3. DD being a Celestial Dragon
Oda doesnt try to hide his intentions. He follows through with his foreshadowing. Oda has given us the ending on a silver platter. Its ignorant to try to deny this theory. This theory follows everything Oda has foreshadowed perfectly and is the only way to fulfill all the strawhats dreams.

[benjamminbrown]

^ Yes, it really is the only way. You're totally right.

Edit: Hasn't anyone already pointed out that Sanji has already admitted that he found All Blue when visiting Fishman Island? Silly me, I'm sure it's been mentioned like 1000 times.

[Dryish]

@Ravaha:

People denying this theory are probably the same people that rejected the following theories as well.

I suggest you browse this thread and check out some arguments that the people who dislike this theory have presented against it because the few more thought out arguments are actually very good indeed and are definitely something to think about.

The fulfillment of the theory would have implications that are pretty destructive for the whole world of One Piece, which in and of itself is enough to suggest that it's not very likely to happen. You should probably read up on the details before you say a thing about people on either side.

[Hitotsumami]

@benjamminbrown:

^ Yes, it really is the only way. You're totally right.

Edit: Hasn't anyone already pointed out that Sanji has already admitted that he found All Blue when visiting Fishman Island? Silly me, I'm sure it's been mentioned like 1000 times.

Link

I believe in context it was just a joke, especially with Usopp's comment.

[benjamminbrown]

^ Yeah, I know it was just a joke.

This theory makes a lot more sense if it is Blackbeard's ultimate goal, not Luffy's.

Edit: Posted this in the latest chapter thread, figured it might be helpful here, too.

This is a diagram that is attempting to depict just how far away Marineford actually is from the Redline and Mariejois/Fishman Island. 10km of vertical distance sure sounds like a lot, but it really isn't when compared to the distance to the horizon.

[habdussamed]

an awesome guess but i think it will be kinda reverse…like marine tring to use anchient weapons and luffy and his crew stoping them..
like by uniting the ocean they may destroy all blue , the lang of seefolk...which is under luffies protection.about the prediction of oracle...if she saw what we saw its only flames with luffy. it can be he is tring to stop someone not destroying. but for now i wanna enjoy the great story of one piece. i dont care if its some rip off from history.it is still awesome. for near future i am very curious about samurai kuni and will there be a new crew member...

[Monkey King]

@habdussamed:

an awesome guess but i think it will be kinda reverse…like marine tring to use anchient weapons and luffy and his crew stoping them..

I think you're on the right path, except not the Marines. But Blackbeard.
And I think it's more likely that different weapons will fall into different hands, Luffy is destined for Poseidon for obvious reasons.
I bet Pluton and Uranus are used by villains.

[Frozt]

i thought franky memorized the blueprints of pluton before he burned it up

[Monkey King]

@Frozt:

i thought franky memorized the blueprints of pluton before he burned it up

All the more likely that the real Pluton gets used by a villain considering the purpose of the Water7 blueprints.

[D.aelthasaar]

I don't think Franky "memorized" the blueprints as both Iceburg and Tom stressed a lot of time that it was evil dangerous stuff.
Though I think that loads of the technology that Franky could "afford" or get his hands on are on the Thousand Sunny, that will keep evolving with new surprises here and there.
We've never seen a ship with something as powerful as Gaon Cannon if you think about it.
Something like Gaon Cannon would have been pretty useful on the Moby Dick in Marineford.
So I'm sure Thousand Sunny will be almost Pluton tier by the end of the manga.

About Pluton in the hands of Blackbeard.
It's kind of reinforced by the fact that BB has not a ship anymore (I still think the crew uses Sanjuan Wolf).
Though, how could BB snatch the ship without a Poneyglyph reader, that would be interesting to see the twist.

[Monkey King]

@D.aelthasaar:

I don't think Franky "memorized" the blueprints as both Iceburg and Tom stressed a lot of time that it was evil dangerous stuff.

He said he had.
And uh, they kept the blueprints to counterbalance the revival of the original Pluton, to potentially build another one to fight it.

We've never seen a ship with something as powerful as Gaon Cannon if you think about it.
Something like Gaon Cannon would have been pretty useful on the Moby Dick in Marineford.
So I'm sure Thousand Sunny will be almost Pluton tier by the end of the manga.

You're really underestimating the ancient weapons if you think it would be that easy. I mean how many times does Oda have to emphasize the "destroy the world" level threat they posed.