After Luffy realized how to hit Crocodile he didn't seem superior to Luffy to me.
I mean, the fruit of Crocodile is mortal, he doesn't need to do half the effort than Luffy needs to do in order to win the match, if he touches him with his right hand it's over.
That's why after watching their third match i think Luffy was better fighter than Crocodile. But that's just me.
Crocodile lost to pre g2 luffy and in the war he was fighting commanders , flamingo and akainu, those guy could kill luffy pre g2 in 1 second.
I hope oda explain us this nonesense
I think kaido is probably around the same age group as the previous rookies when roger died. i also think the yonkou's were formed 10 years ago and at the same time the shichi's were formed.
did i hear right that this week and next we get the chapter tuesday (early tomorrow morning)?
@Monkey:
Luffy took out Crocodile through great pains and two completely lucky survivals that would have killed him otherwise.
And Gecko Moria? ahahaha, Luffy wounded the crap out of him and took out his super weapon not on his own power whatsoever, but on the 100 shadows power. After that the wounded Moria overloaded his own self with too many shadows, and then had a HUGE TOWER fall on him to defeat him.
Saying it like Luffy took them down mano a mano is bullshit.
You are very funny. That username suits you perfectly.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
Just thought I'd point out that Moria didn't 'stand up to Kaido' so much as get smushed by Kaido.
I do have to note one thing about Moria. He does not seem to be afraid of Kaido in the same way Doffy seems to be
Even after losing his crew his goal still appears to be to get even with him
Crocodile lost to pre g2 luffy and in the war he was fighting commanders , flamingo and akainu, those guy could kill luffy pre g2 in 1 second.
I hope oda explain us this nonesense
It's not nonsense unless you randomly believe that Shichibukai are all exactly the same or even close.
They're the best buccaneers the WG can find for the job. That means you don't always get what you want with it.
Already for instance we've seen people like Moria who look like they were hired because they were kickass in snaring and wiping out large amounts of smaller pirate crews, rather than one on one strength.
And Jimbei, who was partly recruited for political reasons, rather than SUPER POWER.
And BUGGY because of his influence rather than he himself.
For fucks sake, this isn't a tournament fighter manga. It's not always about power and thank god.
@Monkey:
It's not nonsense unless you randomly believe that Shichibukai are all exactly the same or even close.
They're the best buccaneers the WG can find for the job. That means you don't always get what you want with it.Already for instance we've seen people like Moria who look like they were hired because they were kickass in snaring and wiping out large amounts of smaller pirate crews, rather than one on one strength.
And Jimbei, who was partly recruited for political reasons, rather than SUPER POWER.
And BUGGY because of his influence rather than he himself.For fucks sake, this isn't a tournament fighter manga. It's not always about power and thank god.
He's saying Croc's strength is inconsistent pre war than what he showed at the war. Croc had a pretty good showing at the war.
@Monkey:
Moria overloaded his own self with too many shadows,
I keep hearing Moria lost because of this mistake, but I have to ask, did base Moria actually have a chance? He was beating Luffy in a game of cat and mouse sure, but if he wanted to straight up fight Luffy, which he did, I don't think his regular arsenal could handle the Gear 2+3 beating Luffy gave him anyway. Moria's real mistake was choosing to be prideful at the exact moment running away would have killed his opposition (it was almost morning).
You are very funny. That username suits you perfectly.
That's exactly what happened in the manga you moron lol.
-He puts every shadow in himself in blind rage, to the point that he's having convulsions and they're oozing out of his mouth, and the characters directly comment on it.
-Luffy punches him at some point, Moria falls into the huge mast of TB, which having already been damaged, breaks and than this huge skyscraper sized thing falls directly on top of Moria.
-And only then does he get knocked out and have all the shadows leave him.
This isn't controversial, this is directly what happens.
@Monkey:
That's exactly what happened in the manga you moron lol.
-He puts every shadow in himself in blind rage, to the point that he's having convulsions and they're oozing out of his mouth, and the characters directly comment on it.
-Luffy punches him at some point, Moria falls into the huge mast of TB, which having already been damaged, breaks and than this huge skyscraper sized thing falls directly on top of Moria.
-And only then does he get knocked out and have all the shadows leave him.This isn't controversial, this is directly what happens.
You are absolutely right. Gear 2 combine with 3 have nothing to do it.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
I don't care how it happen. He defeated Croc. End of story. Have you taken time to think that the World Government ditched Moria because he lost to Luffy? The level that got Moria the title was he was once a pirate that stood up to Kaidou, no evidence that his fighting ability dropped. What da hell is a Shichibukai Level anyways? Buggy is a Shichibukai.
Not to derail the topic any further (anyways, this thread will die tomorrow tops, so. . .), but there's actually tons of evidence that Moriah's fighting ability DID drop.
By evidence I mean what Doflamingo straight up told him, unless that was a misstranslation.
And to stay on topic. . .well, it's far too late, but this was indeed a great chapter, I consider it a celebration of Luffy's character and everything that makes him an awesome main character. Good stuff.
Although I gotta admit that I'm eager for the villains to step up their game and put the main protagonists in a dire situation; it's been a long walk through the park since the time skip (well, during Punk Hazard everyone got knocked out at least once, so that's something I guess) but with the SH's making allies left and right pointing towards "the Dofla family will get thrashed, lol!" I'm awaiting the incoming counter by the Dofla family; either because their officers are hella stronger than we expect (meaning Baby 5 and Buffalo are low tier, I hope), because Dofla has a back-up plan, because the factory is full of traps,… I don't care. I want the SH's to suffer in order to earn victory here.
Dofla deserves this cause he is a kick-ass villain and the set-up for this arc is too good to be wasted on a climax consisting of "everyone in the island befriends the SH's and storms the factory and Dofla has an Enel facefault because he didn't expect our main protagonists to be so ubber and make so many ubber allies".
You are absolutely right. Gear 2 combine with 3 have nothing to do it.
Yes, the invincible Gear 2 and 3 which have never ever failed Luffy and always win the day. Much as in the arc just prior where they quickly took down Rob Lucci in a few short moments.
And thanks for continuing to ignore that Moria took direct hits from Nightmare Luffy.
Let's not drag out this versus stuff. I'd say take it to the Shichibukai thread but I'm hoping neither of you really care to argue the point that much. Move it back to the Doflamingo / Law / Luffy stuff if you must, but keep Moria and Croc and all the power levels stuff out.
I wonder what will ODA bring next chapter. It seems it will not be related to Block D as there is some time until it happens. So what will it be. Green Bit and Law being toyed around, Namis& co art adventure, Ussop and Robins Picnic ant trip, Zoros and Frankys insect platoon, Bellamis brooding pose 3.0 V or delivery Boy Sanji finds a way to slip into Corrida with the message. Cannot wait to see what happens next. For all we know Oda could go… meanwhile on mariejoy Sakasuki has....... lol
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I think coliseum will hold for now. Most likely Nami's group start fighting back since Jora wants to start killing them and maybe Ussop and Robin meets up with Zoro and Franky.
Oh for fucks sake, Come already…
I wonder what will ODA bring next chapter. It seems it will not be related to Block D as there is some time until it happens. So what will it be. Green Bit and Law being toyed around, Namis& co art adventure, Ussop and Robins Picnic ant trip, Zoros and Frankys insect platoon, Bellamis brooding pose 3.0 V or delivery Boy Sanji finds a way to slip into Corrida with the message. Cannot wait to see what happens next. For all we know Oda could go… meanwhile on mariejoy Sakasuki has....... lol
I will guess that it will show Sanji finally getting into the coliseum or figured a way to get in, and show Franky asking Zoro what he meant by "the ship is in danger?", then some Nami and co having the upper hand and finally some Doflamingo family or him himself.
Rebecca's flshback might start. They have 15 minutes before next block(IIRC) so that is just perfect. Besides, next chapter is probably final chapter of next volume, so it's a good opportunity to start a flashback by the end.
No one cares about Rebecca's flashback.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
Rebecca's, DD's, and the dwarf flashback will probably start at the same time. I'm assuming after block D.
No one cares about Rebecca's flashback.
Yes we do, it's going to be the flashback that properly outlines what kind of a character Doflamingo is and is supposed to be taken as and will either make or break his character. In addition, it's going to give the arc its proper backstory, tying together all the loose threads that Oda has been teasing us with and eventually justifying the arc's existence as a part of the story of the manga. If it's poorly executed, we might very well be looking at yet another Fishman Island level of a disappointing fiasco here.
Whether the timing is right or not, though, is up to debate. Knowing Oda's style with important plot-driving flashbacks, I don't think this has been foreshadowed quite enough as of yet to have the emotional impact on both readers and the characters to get things moving and to bring them to a satisfying end. We're going to see a bit more teasing, I think, unless Oda wants to set Luffy on another Punk Hazard -style rampage.
In Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
Yes we do, it's going to be the flashback that properly outlines the kind of a character Doflamingo is and is supposed to be taken as and that will either make or break his character. In addition, it's going to give the arc its proper backstory, tying together all the loose threads that Oda has been teasing us with and eventually justifying the arc's existence as a part of the story of the manga. If it's poorly executed, we might very well be looking at yet another Fishman Island fiasco here.
The flashback was one of the better-executed parts of Fishman Island.
The flashback was one of the better-executed parts of Fishman Island.
Yeah, I was actually referring to Fishman Island as a whole. Probably could have worded that one a bit better.
The Skypiea flashback is the best one to date. Unless it has someone as good as Calgara, IDGAF
Yes we do, it's going to be the flashback that properly outlines the kind of a character Doflamingo is and is supposed to be taken as and that will either make or break his character. In addition, it's going to give the arc its proper backstory, tying together all the loose threads that Oda has been teasing us with and eventually justifying the arc's existence as a part of the story of the manga. If it's poorly executed, we might very well be looking at yet another Fishman Island level of disappointing fiasco here.
Whether the timing is right or not, though, is up to debate. Knowing Oda's style with important plot-driving flashbacks, I don't think this has been foreshadowed quite enough as of yet to have the emotional impact on both readers and the characters to get things moving and to bring them to a satisfying end. We're going to see a bit more teasing, I think, unless Oda wants to set Luffy on another Punk Hazard -style rampage.
True, my bad… When he said Rebecca's flashback, I pictured a flashback showing only Rebeca crying, whining, looking weak, like the little one we got last chapter "mommy, I'm hungry".
Yes we do, it's going to be the flashback that properly outlines the kind of a character Doflamingo is and is supposed to be taken as and that will either make or break his character. In addition, it's going to give the arc its proper backstory, tying together all the loose threads that Oda has been teasing us with and eventually justifying the arc's existence as a part of the story of the manga. If it's poorly executed, we might very well be looking at yet another Fishman Island level of disappointing fiasco here.
Whether the timing is right or not, though, is up to debate. Knowing Oda's style with important plot-driving flashbacks, I don't think this has been foreshadowed quite enough as of yet to have the emotional impact on both readers and the characters to get things moving and to bring them to a satisfying end. We're going to see a bit more teasing, I think, unless Oda wants to set Luffy on another Punk Hazard -style rampage.
I think what you mean is the full Dressorosa History/Flashback, and not just Rebecca Flashback. But I can see her being the main POV character in the flashback. While DR only thought of "Rebecca" flashback
Hmm, no, not necessarily the single POV character. This chapter's flashback panel is as strong a hint as any that there will be a flashback where her past will be revealed, but only time will tell whether it's going to be a part of a longer flashback that doesn't have a single fixed POV, e.g. the Skypiea flashback, or a part of a collection of shorter flashbacks telling the stories of each important character. There are simply way too many things that we already know have something to do with Dressrosa's past that Rebecca herself could not possibly know everything about.
However, it's more or less a given at this point that she will be the one that the past is somehow linked to. She has been suggested to have a close relationship to Kyros, about whom everyone has mysteriously forgotten almost everything, she's being protected by a toy soldier whose real identity we have no knowledge of, there's a mysterious old gladiator who swears revenge on Doflamingo and flees when Rebecca shows up just so that he wouldn't be recognized… And then there's the weird business with the dwarf princess that is probably somehow connected to all this, even if only indirectly. I'm honestly hoping that it's not Rebecca, because that would be a stretch plotwise.
In any case, calling the inevitable flashback Rebecca's flashback seems somewhat appropriate to me, at least until we see how Oda chooses to write the rest of the arc. The more I think about it, though, the less likely it sounds to have a longer flashback entirely centered around her.
In Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
while i think rebecca will be involved in the flashback, i dont think she alone has enough weight for it(i.e. like how jimbei did the FI flashback, he was intertwined with Fisher tiger and the sun pirates and queen otohime) Even though it is an assumption, she doesnt seem to have as strong a understanding as the toy soldier does. The toy soldier himself being allied to the dwarves, the toys and the gladiators, all of which are the main focal point atm.
I agree that any flashback will probably be way more comprehensive than one character.
And then there's the weird business with the dwarf princess that is probably somehow connected to all this, even if only indirectly.
Am I the only one who is majorly stoked for the Dwarf Princess character?
Yeah, I was actually referring to Fishman Island as a whole. Probably could have worded that one a bit better.
I actually liked the FI arc. Now, I´m one of those believers that FI was kwon as a fiasco to some not only because of execution (I agree that its sort of a plain arc) but also because it was so overhyped that people were expecting who knows what. Having an introduction arc after what Marineford achieved and not being able to stand up to the TEASING that it was given to the merfolk land beforehand its probably one of the biggest reasons of FI failing in some people´s eyes.
Would you like a Blast?
100000000000000 Berries please.
Blasting Destinations: Gotham city, Jaya, central perk, E. R.
Am I the only one who is majorly stoked for the Dwarf Princess character?
Can't wait, especially since Leo's description pretty much says she's a spoiled brat. Luffy doesn't like those types much.
When the heart of fire strikes the hearth of stone, will you leave your life? Will you leave your home? Will you take the darkest road?
I actually liked the FI arc. Now, I´m one of those believers that FI was kwon as a fiasco to some not only because of execution (I agree that its sort of a plain arc) but also because it was so overhyped that people were expecting who knows what. Having an introduction arc after what Marineford achieved and not being able to stand up to the TEASING that it was given to the merfolk land beforehand its probably one of the biggest reasons of FI failing in some people´s eyes.
It also failed two large groups of fans though.
-the combat people
-the world building people
Me being the latter.
It's definitely way better than the reputation it's gained, but it's really a very very mediocre arc, that could have been a volume less in length. And SHOULD have been incredible.
@Monkey:
It also failed two large groups of fans though.
-the combat people
-the world building peopleMe being the latter.
It's definitely way better than the reputation it's gained, but it's really a very very mediocre arc, that could have been a volume less in length. And SHOULD have been incredible.
What do you mean by world-building?
Because I felt that it actually explained a lot about the history of the OP world.
@Monkey:
It also failed two large groups of fans though.
-the combat people
-the world building peopleMe being the latter.
It's definitely way better than the reputation it's gained, but it's really a very very mediocre arc, that could have been a volume less in length. And SHOULD have been incredible.
I agree. To be fair, I still keep my mind open as we have only seen act 1 of FI… hopefully act 2 (Luffy destroying it all will be much more enjoyable). Its funny but the adventure on FI feels like a tad con, thats without saying that I feel the first act is only there to give weight to the feeling department when things go awry during the second round.....I'm not letting my hopes down just yet
What do you mean by world-building?
Because I felt that it actually explained a lot about the history of the OP world.
Environmental flavor, strong sense of location.
The fantasy travelogue side of One Piece.
@Monkey:
Environmental flavor, strong sense of location.
The fantasy travelogue side of One Piece.
You mean you weren't titillated by the land of slowly crumbling coral?
No fishman island dojo.
Hmm, no, not necessarily the single POV character. This chapter's flashback panel is as strong a hint as any that there will be a flashback where her past will be revealed, but only time will tell whether it's going to be a part of a longer flashback that doesn't have a single fixed POV, e.g. the Skypiea flashback, or a part of a collection of shorter flashbacks telling the stories of each important character. There are simply way too many things that we already know have something to do with Dressrosa's past that Rebecca herself could not possibly know everything about.
However, it's more or less a given at this point that she will be the one that the past is somehow linked to. She has been suggested to have a close relationship to Kyros, about whom everyone has mysteriously forgotten almost everything, she's being protected by a toy soldier whose real identity we have no knowledge of, there's a mysterious old gladiator who swears revenge on Doflamingo and flees when Rebecca shows up just so that he wouldn't be recognized… And then there's the weird business with the dwarf princess that is probably somehow connected to all this, even if only indirectly. I'm honestly hoping that it's not Rebecca, because that would be a stretch plotwise.
In any case, calling the inevitable flashback Rebecca's flashback seems somewhat appropriate to me, at least until we see how Oda chooses to write the rest of the arc. The more I think about it, though, the less likely it sounds to have a longer flashback entirely centered around her.
Yeah sorry, what I meant is she will be one of the main POV characters, not THE main one. Just like robin but on a bigger scale.
We have seen her with the solder-san during her childhood so she must have been pretty young when Doflamingo became the king.
hmm, maybe she will be the one who tell luffy the whole story. Since she is there with him and I dont see him leaving the tournament before the finals.
Regardless, we will have to wait and see how Oda reveal the history like you said.
@Monkey:
I agree that any flashback will probably be way more comprehensive than one character.
Actually, with how its been set up, I'm expecting a multiple-teller flashback as well. Like we'll transition from the one Dwarf talking about the Doflamingo family's 900-year history to the toy soldier telling Franky about the more immediate 10-year history and Rebecca finishing with how Kryos fits into everything.
Luffy beating Crocodile was extremely circumstantial since he lost twice in situations where he really should've died, and even the time when he won he still would've been the ultimate loser if Robin didn't give him the antidote to Croc's poison. Luffy was definitely below Croc's level, he won through determination, learning to counter Croc's strengths, and putting himself in situations that really should've killed him. And Moria must have been far below the level that earned him the title, considering the Marines ditched him after Marineford for being too weak. In other words, Moria was probably below the level of a typical shichibukai when he lost
Really? Because it seemed to me that once Crocodile lost his advantage of been impossible to physically hurt Luffy was better than him. So if you put them on a level playing field then I would say Luffy would beat Law and he would be better than him. If luffy knew what Smoker and Vergo knew about Law's abilities then he would have honestly easily have won that fight.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
I'm hyped for the what Bellamy did on skypeia flashback and Doffies.
Really? Because it seemed to me that once Crocodile lost his advantage of been impossible to physically hurt Luffy was better than him. So if you put them on a level playing field then I would say Luffy would beat Law and he would be better than him. If luffy knew what Smoker and Vergo knew about Law's abilities then he would have honestly easily have won that fight.
The great 6 stars already warned no Crocodile or Moria talk here and you still typing it up?
Really? Because it seemed to me that once Crocodile lost his advantage of been impossible to physically hurt Luffy was better than him. So if you put them on a level playing field then I would say Luffy would beat Law and he would be better than him. If luffy knew what Smoker and Vergo knew about Law's abilities then he would have honestly easily have won that fight.
Agree, as long as Luffy can physically hurt the enemy, the show will go on. Kaido? a Zoan? pfftttt…. Bring it on!
Really? Because it seemed to me that once Crocodile lost his advantage of been impossible to physically hurt Luffy was better than him. So if you put them on a level playing field then I would say Luffy would beat Law and he would be better than him. If luffy knew what Smoker and Vergo knew about Law's abilities then he would have honestly easily have won that fight.
To be fair, since Warlords are apparently about discouraging the rookie pirates(who typically don't have Haki) the WG no doubt saw him being a Logia as a perk when they hired Crocodile. So him being a Logia actually factors in to whatever "power requirements", needed for the rank of Warlord. So when Luffy beat him with non-haki physical attacks, he wouldn't have necessarily been surpassing that level.
No comment on Luffy being stronger than your typical current Warlord, I haven't seen enough to judge that.
@Monkey:
It also failed two large groups of fans though.
-the combat people
-the world building peopleMe being the latter.
It's definitely way better than the reputation it's gained, but it's really a very very mediocre arc, that could have been a volume less in length. And SHOULD have been incredible.
I agree that its better than the reputation its gained but i wouldnt put it as a "very very mediocre arc". Personally, the expectations of the readers, the huge hype that was built up whether through the actual story or the readers and the fact that it was right after the time skip is what i think did it.
The expectations were quite high and led to HUGE disappointments also the fact that it was after such an intense saga people where expecting a level 50 story but got a lvl 5 on a scale of 1-10 (random numbers).
I agree that its better than the reputation its gained but i wouldnt put it as a "very very mediocre arc". Personally, the expectations of the readers, the huge hype that was built up whether through the actual story or the readers and the fact that it was right after the time skip is what i think did it.
The expectations were quite high and led to HUGE disappointments also the fact that it was after such an intense saga people where expecting a level 50 story but got a lvl 5 on a scale of 1-10 (random numbers).
I'm speaking from the perspective of a third reread with the official english volumes. Not of my first go through.
It remains very very mediocre.
Coincidentally…a 5 on a 10 scale would pretty much be the essence of mediocre?
Personally I'd rate FI as a 7, with my lowest score going to Marineford (6/10)
~Aioria made this
