@Holy:
the name Ben Affleck attracted more ire than Frank Miller or Snyder??????????
?????????
Then again comic book fans actually think The Dark Knight Returns isn't garbage so great community
The literary community has a hand in that too.
@Holy:
the name Ben Affleck attracted more ire than Frank Miller or Snyder??????????
?????????
Then again comic book fans actually think The Dark Knight Returns isn't garbage so great community
The literary community has a hand in that too.
SACRILEGE! What's wrong with prostitute catwoman, and Batman being a hardened Clint eastwood esque sociopath? AND LIPSTICK JOKER.
At least it's better then its follow-up at least.
DKR is overrated IMO but virtually everyone hates All Star B&R.
MoS had Amy Adams, Diane Lane and Laurence Fishburne.
And their only purpose in the movie were to be the final survivors of metropolis.
Patton Oswalt response
Yeah, the dude's made some bad films. Every actor has. Every actor does. Every actor will. It's a huge, arcing career and NO ONE has control over where it goes. Movie to movie, year to year, you're collaborating and trying and risking and, sometimes, yes – failing.
Plus, everyone seems to forget that he had the world dropped in his lap when he was YOUNG. And, judging by how other suddenly-famous youngsters do in the same situation, he fared pretty well. Even when it went wrong, he seemed to keep a self-deprecating, long-view philosophy about the burning freak carousel he'd found himself on.
And then what happened? I mean, he'd fallen from a HEIGHT. You know what happens to 95% of people who weather a descent that steep? They come apart, fray at all of their sanity nodes, and give up.
But then there's the 5% who embrace crushing defeat and see it for the gift it is. And here's the gift: when you fail, and fail UTTERLY, you wake up the next morning and see that the world didn't end. And then the fear of failure is gone. And you're free. You're free to proceed on your own terms and pace – if you have the ego that permits you to.
Ben brushed himself off, realized he'd kept his eyes open on the movies he'd done, and started directing. And he's become a damn good one.
A Batman portrayed by someone who's tasted humiliation and a reversal of all personal valences -- kind of like Grant Morrison's "Zen warrior" version of Batman, post-ARKHAM ASYLUM, who was, in the words of Superman, "...the most dangerous man on the planet"? Think for a second and admit that Ben Affleck is closer to THAT top-shelf iteration of The Dark Knight than pretty much anyone in Hollywood right now.
I'd write more, but I have to go work on my post about how an overweight 44 year-old comedian with bad feet and insomnia would be a bold choice for The Joker.
DKR is overrated IMO but virtually everyone hates All Star B&R.
Yeah, the reason why TDKR is so well received is because it was such a stark departure from the campy, Adam west Batman and actually some of the comics at the time(though Neil Adams did darken Batman, Miller took it to a whole another level) plus it came out around the time of the Reagen administration and folks confused Miller's satirical stab at politics for some deep social commentary. It really gave the pretense of being deeper them it really is. Not to mention the pretentious literature critics at the time salivating over it and wrongly comparing it to Watchmen. Insecure Bat-fans who grew up on the West show began toting the story as confirmation to themselves that what they were reading wasn't juvenile, pulp trash. TDKR had the ripple-effect of proliferating the main-canon of the character by making him into a an crazy, nutjob.
Who gives a shit about who's cast as Batman?
Batman is one of the dumbest characters ever. Here's him in a nutshell: Good looking, white homie got his parents gunned down, what's his response to this injustice? Instead of investing his billions in organizing private security firms, making endowments to the city to fund the police and urban improvement, investing in social programs to keep kids off the streets and rehabilitate felons and addicts, and so on.
He expects to be taken seriously by dressing up as a FLYING RAT and beat on criminals and has as much sense of responsibility as a African warlord by indoctrinating little kids into fitting on speedo's to assist him in his megalomaniac, twisted cause. Who lives with his zealously devoted British butler stereotype that in turn acts as a substitute for dead daddy.
SUCH A COMPELLING CHARACTER.
@Dr.H.:
Instead of investing his billions in organizing private security firms, making endowments to the city to fund the police and urban improvement, investing in social programs to keep kids off the streets and rehabilitate felons and addicts, and so on.
I'm…pretty sure he does that.
Not in them movies he don't! No one read them funny books 'cept smelly, sunshine basement dwelling nerds!
Sorry if I just asserted that stereotype, please don't GET them pitchforks y'all comic geeks are cool.
i SO SORRY. HAVE A FLOWER and LETS MAKE AMENDS.
A DARKWING DUCK BATMAN MOVIE WOULD BE DA' BOMB.
!
MAKE IT HAPPEN Y'ALL.
Patton Oswalt response
Dear lord, never take Patton Oswalt away from us.
@Dr.H.:
Not in them movies he don't! No one read them funny books 'cept smelly, sunshine basement dwelling nerds!
Sorry if I just asserted that stereotype, please don't GET them pitchforks y'all comic geeks are cool.
i SO SORRY. HAVE A FLOWER and LETS MAKE AMENDS.
. . . . . . . . . really?
So like if they do this DC thingie like they do Marvel, can we get a Wonder Woman who don't wear them flashy hooker boots? Also how they goin' explain the way that lady be cruisin' that invisible jet and shit?
…........Without a license. They must be some amazonian flight license thing somewhere. I mean since they go all gritty and real that might be a head-scratch-er .
They could just drop the invisible jet entirely and give her the ability to fly which to my recollection has never been featured in most adaptations despite being one of her many powers in the comics.
You know, here's the deal, I've been highly critical of Ben Affleck, but, in the end, I will always be willing to give the guy a chance in anything, if only because of this:
spits drink Brilliant.
They could just drop the invisible jet entirely and give her the ability to fly which to my recollection has never been featured in most adaptations despite being one of her many powers in the comics.
She could fly in the animated series. looks up Oh yeah, doesn't count.
Agreed. Amy Adams was a horrible, horrible Lois. None of the snap and snarky that Lois is supposed to have, and Amy Adams is usually a good actress. WTF, Amy. I dunno if it's Snyder or you. Maybe it's because the idiots cast a redhead for Lois. Not to insult redheads at all, it's just Lois' black hair is very iconic of her character, and they jinxed it.
It's funny. I stepped away from Superman for quite a long time, but I grew up reading comics in the '90s and I swore she was a redhead. I suppose she could have just been rendered as having a lighter shade of black hair, but it was enough to where when I got back into Superman with the New 52, I had a conversation with my Superman-fan friend asking "Why did they change Lois to black hair?"
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Maybe they grew up on the same comics I did?
The two Bat-actors converse.
spits drink Brilliant. She could fly in the animated series. looks up Oh yeah, doesn't count.
Superfriends ?
If a Wonder Woman movie ever gets made, they definitely need to list flying as one of the "have not's" in the film along with invisibility jets.
No offense to Wondy fans(if there are any on this forum) but honestly Wonder Woman is really that one character that's hardest to do. So has so much revisonism, weak rogues gallery, and weaker supporting cast.
You have to change Wonder Woman quite a bit to make her work, and her bat-shit, pants hating fanbase ain't gonna let you hear the end of it.
Makes me wish that Whedon Wonder Wioman film was made.
Even Wonder Womans new52 series (despite loving it myself) it is a 'Gods of Olympus ft. Wonder Woman' series. The most interesting characters aren't Wondy.
She is very difficult to get right really.
I don't blame them for not being able to make a film out of her. Out of her rogues gallery I can think of…Cheetah, Ares and that giant woman.
Thats it.
Wonder Woman has been able to fly since 1986 and her invisible jet only made a short return after Infinite Crisis.
It's slightly baffling that people still think they can't make a good movie of character X after the worst comic book nazi Iron Man got the best movie.
Also a raccoon… with a machine gun.
You can't compare Rocket Raccoon to Wonder Woman.
Rocket may be the heart of the Guardians, but he's not the main character. That and he's also part of a team so he has other characters to bounce off.
Wonder Woman however is going to have to carry an entire movie by herself. They could probably make a movie and base it off her individual animated movie, but even that wasn't that good.
It's likely the reason that they haven't made a Hulk movie yet, yes he was great in The Avengers but he would and has struggled with his own individual films.
You can't compare Rocket Raccoon to Wonder Woman.
Rocket may be the heart of the Guardians, but he's not the main character. That and he's also part of a team so he has other characters to bounce off.
Wonder Woman however is going to have to carry an entire movie by herself. They could probably make a movie and base it off her individual animated movie, but even that wasn't that good.
It's likely the reason that they haven't made a Hulk movie yet, yes he was great in The Avengers but he would and has struggled with his own individual films.
Hulk has had two movies.
@Thousand:
Hulk has had two movies.
Which is why I said he's struggled with his films.
He's had them and they've been bad.
Aang Lee one was godawful, second one was decent though. Neither could compare to the ten minutes of Joss Whedon Hulk though.
You can't compare Rocket Raccoon to Wonder Woman.
Rocket may be the heart of the Guardians, but he's not the main character. That and he's also part of a team so he has other characters to bounce off.
Wonder Woman however is going to have to carry an entire movie by herself. They could probably make a movie and base it off her individual animated movie, but even that wasn't that good.
It's likely the reason that they haven't made a Hulk movie yet, yes he was great in The Avengers but he would and has struggled with his own individual films.
Her animated movie was spectacular. Certainly better than some live-action movies that everyone here raves about (Thor, Captain America, Incredible Hulk).
Wasn't Thor originally just some human doctor who found Mjolnir and it transformed him…and he would lose his strength if seperated from the Hammer for two minutes or something.
With so many decades of lore for Wonder Woman, I refuse to believe that a competent writer couldn't pick and choose elements to make a cohesive original script, in a similar vein to Thor.
I...can't really see the problem with Wondie.
Thor is an easier character to sell then Wondy who has a clusterfuck of a history.
I really don't see why there's a need for a film with her in the first place. She isn't much of a character. I dunno, the character just doesn't lent itself to live well imho. In fact, at this point it's best they don't do her now. When I think about they should go the DCAU route and introduce her in like a trinity film, then perhaps spin her off with her own film. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it'll be hard to get a mainstream to care.
I never cared about her direct-to video flick.
Here's how I see it: if you can make a concept as ridiculous as a white dude dressing up as a flying rat to fight crime work, then you can make something like Wonder Woman work. To y'all who keep saying "but she don't have good villains!" Shut-up and smell the coffee: It doesn't matter. If that's the case, Iron Man doesn't work on screen 'cuz he has a stinky rogues gallery too. In fact, I see the character's lack of a cool rogues gallery as a plus, since you can be creative and create your own, or put your own spin on some real lame ones. You won't have the baggage Batman tends to have since his rogues tend to overshadow him as a character at every turn.
The story, acting, directing matter more. ANYTHING can work as long as your have the right director, or writer that can create a take on the character that resonates with a modern audience. Just centralize on the core concept of the character and hone in on that. You can't create a Wondy film that will please everybody, but you can create a Wondy film that pleases most.
Just get Joss Whedon to write it. It's a safe choice but at least the guy has proven he knows how to write women.
@Thousand:
Just get Joss Whedon to write it. It's a safe choice but at least the guy has proven he knows how to write women.
He already wrote it, but DC decided to cancel the project. Then he made Avengers and DC lost him forever. Whedon is contractually prevented from making any films for a studio other than Marvel through Avengers 2 (though it'll be extended through Avengers 3 for sure if he decides to do that.) I'm not sure if it will allow independent projects. Much Ado was already made and set for release when he signed the contract, so it doesn't provide an answer on that front.
Thor is an easier character to sell then Wondy who has a clusterfuck of a history.
I really don't see why there's a need for a film with her in the first place. She isn't much of a character. I dunno, the character just doesn't lent itself to live well imho. In fact, at this point it's best they don't do her now. When I think about they should go the DCAU route and introduce her in like a trinity film, then perhaps spin her off with her own film. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it'll be hard to get a mainstream to care.
I never cared about her direct-to video flick.
She's as much a character as boyscout Superman and RAWR Batman. In fact, she's better because there's an interesting dichotomy in her character that she's both far more willing to kill than those two and is an actual warrior, while at the same time also being one with nature and that jazz.
Also stop fucking talking about convoluted histories. ALL comic book characters have convoluted histories. In a couple years we have Cable on screen and his history consists of being a son of Cyclops and Cyclops' love's clone, who was sent to 2000 years in the future as a baby, because he was infected with a techno-organic virus, where he was raised by a clan that wanted to defeat Apocalypse lead by Cyclops and Jean's (the real one) time-travelling daughter from a different reality who also sent Cyclops and Jean (the real one) into the future to raise Cable during his childhood and after Cable grew up and defeated Apocalypse his evil clone Stryfe took power and both then travelled to the present when they got old, after which Stryfe was killed, and Cable soon after but he wasn't killed, he was sent to the future, then he went back to the present, and after a couple years Cable saved the mutant messiah baby by taking her to the future to save her until she became an adolescent and they went back to the present after which Cable was killed, but he wasn't killed, he was sent to the future, then he went back to the present, his daughter fixed his techo-organic virus, but now he has a brain tumor and is dying again.
But sure, Wonder Woman used to have an invisible plane. SO CONVOLUTED!!
Honestly, does the general movie audience care about "oh this character has a storied history but his/her rogues gallery isn't very impressive!"? I mean if you look at all the different iterations of Batman, sure he has a diverse gallery to play with, but there are so many different versions of him that don't really have any intrinsic quality other than "rich white guy scares the fuck out of criminals while wearing a costume at night." And with those different iterations, you also have a different take on the villain. Campy batman with campy joker. More realistic batman with more realistic joker. Same with Superman. Does the main audience really know anything about General Zodd in the comics or if he's written well in the comics? Because they shouldn't.
Now you can make the argument that the villains help define a character. Which is fine. So then you should actually be able to write the villain well then. There's really nothing stopping you other than some pessimistic argument that her rogues gallery sucks or that writers think that she's a difficult character to nail so they just hide her behind some other characters.
I mean seriously, even if Wonder Woman is a bit of a stale character in the comics side of things, I think, especially between animated series like Justice Friends and the Justice League, the public really does see Wonder Woman as one of the main heroes of the DC side of things. At the very least, she's probably seen as one of the higher tier female heroes. I'd imagine she's even more well known with the general audience than Rocket Raccoon.
As much as I could continue thus, prolonging arguments isn't something I care to do.
We gonna have to agree to disagree. With my experience with the character, she just isn't fillmable as Batman nor Superman IMHO. It's not impossible to do a film about her, but it'd be hard to wash over the mainstream image of her.
Least we get something similar to the bat-craze of the 89 film,, I don't see that happening. I dunno, but I rather see a Flash film then a Wonder Woman.
Your experience? You've gone on record that you barely read comics.
My dad is hardcore DC fan, who has access to a shitload of comics, he lent to them to me, among them were quite a few Wondy stuff. Among that bunch that I did read, I only liked one or two stories with her. I read some stuff with her in the 52 as well.
Why do y'all even want a Wonder Woman film since DC be tryin' to make it all real and shit?
DC won't make a Wonder Woman movie 'cuz them folks can't figure out a way to make a dark, and gritty enough. They be like,"How we goin' make this character edgy and dark? "
HEY i KNOW LET'S GET HER TO RESENT MEN AND HAVE HER GET PENIS ENVY.
What even is the public image of Wonder Woman? Is it anything more than "Amazon warrior dressed in american flag punches and lassoos evildoers, and sometimes does that brace bulet deflection thing"?
I fully admit that almost most of my exposure to her has been through Justice League, but considering the number of viewers of the show, that should go for a lot of people.
@The:
What even is the public image of Wonder Woman? Is it anything more than "Amazon warrior dressed in american flag punches and lassoos evildoers, and sometimes does that brace bulet deflection thing"?.
The 70's live action show, mostly.
I guess maybe the animated version is overshadowing it by now through sheer ammount of time, the same way Adam West Batman is no longer really seen as the definitive, but….WW hasn't gotten as much spotlight or revamps or series over the years, so theres less perception in general.
Was watching animated justice league lately and I totally forgot they toyed around with Diana x Batman
She was great in the show! Why don't they just expand on that lore some? She's like a goddamn female Thor for Christ sake
I think part of the problem is between Superman and Batman, the DC Cinematic Universe is wanting to try and keep things serious, so the first thing they have to get around is essentially having the all-female island place on Earth. Of course, Superman's an alien that looks exactly like a human, but I feel Hollywood producers'll see that as more accepting than island full of only women that nobody's discovered.
Ben Affleck already hitting the gym for the role.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I still can't see Ben Affleck in the role, but that might be an advantage.
@RobbyBevard:
The 70's live action show, mostly.
Oh, right. Forgot about that, I don't think we ever got that over here. Is it an Aquaman "lol, she's so lame and useless MIRITE" type deal?
It was pretty great for a '70s show.
N](http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/content/exclusive-bryan-cranston-lex-luthor-batman-superman-matt-damon-aquaman-mark-strong-sinestro)ow, all fo that needs to be taken with a grain of salt of course, but, holy crap! I was surprised by a 6-10 movie deal for Cranston as Luther, but a 13 film deal for Affleck as Batman? What the flying fuck monkeys? Also if Damon is signed please let him be as Martian Manhunter and not Aquaman. Dear lord.
13 movies for Ben? Assuming that there's going to be a movie every 2-3 years, maybe even 4, he's gonna be damn old when it's all over.
Patton Oswalt for humpty dumpty or penquin.
13 movies for Ben? Assuming that there's going to be a movie every 2-3 years, maybe even 4, he's gonna be damn old when it's all over.
13 "appearances." Still, that'd still have to average out to one a year. Unless they get into the business of churning out shitty product… (Cue TLC to tell me they're already churning out shitty product.)