Chimera Ant Arc is my favorite in the entire series. I don't get why people are complaining about the violence, when that's what made the arc good for me. It really increased the sense of danger, and I loved the fights.
Hunter x Hunter II
-
-
Yeah well that's probably because HxH isn't One Piece. It intentionally and consistently set a completely different tone than One Piece.
Frankly, I find Hunter x Hunter's tone to be all over the place, LOL.
But if you're going to hold the "but we got to know them and like them and we saw them murdered" standard I don't hear you complaining about the fates of people like Poorhatto or Gotoh, both of whom we got to know as well if not debateably better than Pokkle and Ponzu.
1. They were adults
2. They were adults who voluntarily put themselves in danger. Yes, maybe it's a little sad if we're attached to them, but it's not horrific or heartbreaking.You really just have this odd fixation on kids in particular being killed.
Yes, it's a pet peeve of mine. I don't see why you find that so odd. My experience is that more people do get upset over child deaths than they do over adult deaths.
I don't know. Do you feel the same whether an adult or child dies?
I'm sorry but it's just an incongruous thing to have a big problem with considering it's on the relatively tame spectrum of fucked up things that happen in HxH.
Then you and I just have different ideas of what is fucked up.
But unlike Star Wars HxH isn't a light-hearted sort of adventure. It never has been past the initial Hunter Exams.
Again, I have no idea what kind of story Hunter x Hunter is trying to be.
But were they trying to appeal primarily to adults in their intent?
No, but if an artist wants to create a work that appeals to adults they should put it in a magazine that appeals to adults.
They don't air Breaking Bad at 4:00 PM on Nickelodeon
I'll be nice and say you really really don't want to pursue a "X makes Shonen and Y makes Seinen" sort of argument. It's pointless.
It's called Shonen Jump. It has been specifically stated that the magazine's demographic is shonen (i.e. young pre-teen/teen boys). Ergo, all comics in Shonen Jump should be aimed at a shonen demographic.
But if you'd like to contest that assumption, by all means, enlighten me.
-
I don't know. Do you feel the same whether an adult or child dies?
Then you and I just have different ideas of what is fucked up.
Again, I have no idea what kind of story Hunter x Hunter is trying to be.
Then I suppose we'll just have to end that line of debate considering we're at an impasse for the first two lines and the last line is not at all my problem but your's.
No, but if an artist wants to create a work that appeals to adults they should put it in a magazine that appeals to adults.
They don't air Breaking Bad at 4:00 PM on Nickelodeon
I'm sorry but that's not at all accurate simile at describing the situation considering while the standards for Jump in recent years aren't as loose as they used to be you're forgetting that shonen manga is still a hell of a lot more mature than Nickelodeon lol. I really hope you're not forgetting that shonen, particularly battle heavy stuff, can be pretty dark and can be rather violent even by today's standards. Again when stuff like Death Note can still run in Jump and JoJo still running in Jump until 2004 you have to realize choosing your intended audience can be pretty maleable.
But even if I were to follow your flawed juxtaposing Breaking Bad on Nickelodeon example this is still a Breaking Bad that makes millions, has a huge fan base, and is so incredibly successful that the author can be as lazy as he wants to and still have his job when he feels up to it despite being on Nickelodeon. Even if your comparison were at all the case he has a system that works unbelievably well, why should he move to a more "fitting" network?
It's called Shonen Jump. It has been specifically stated that the magazine's demographic is shonen (i.e. young pre-teen/teen boys). Ergo, all comics in Shonen Jump should be aimed at a shonen demographic.
But if you'd like to contest that assumption, by all means, enlighten me.
Because like I said these labels are completely arbitrary. Especially when it's long been established you can have an audience, whether intentional or not, that is not the primary audience of the magazine and be very successful for it. Especially when it's always been the case for not only this magazine (the same magazine that has serialized things like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Bastard!!, Fist of the North Star, etc in the past) but also for the author in particular (the latter half of YYH is definitely not intended for kids nor was Level E). Not to mention other magazines can play by the same rules considering one of my favorite manga is the slice of life Hourou Musuko is on the exact other end of this argument where it's incredibly innocent and adorable but serialized by a seinen magazine despite having essentially zero objectionable content.
I could list off other manga that apply to the same principle but having a list of names isn't the point at all but pointing out that X=Shonen and Y=Seinen is just dumb because you can't quantify it solely with age demographics and you certainly can't break it down mathmatically like how a manga needs a certain amount of EXP until it levels up in seinen.
HxH is grim, bleak, and shonen. Get over it.
-
Fist of the North Star was in the 80's… BEFORE the magazine got Dragonball. Once that did SJ officially became the king of kiddie books, and their demographic changed a bit. Jojo actually changed magazines after that happened.
It once targeted teens, now it targets a younger audience. You can't pull out stuf fthey published 30 years ago and say it was fine then so it should be fine now... its not because they aren't aiming at the same audiences.
Death Note was skirting the edge a little with the protagonist being a bastard, but its deaths were mostly bloodless, off camera, and mostly bad guys... it was still mostly a battle of wits. There weren't any bare breasts or visible deaths or drinking or heavy romance or adult themes or anything, so while it had a darker tone it wasn't as "seinin" as some people seem to think it is (I assume mostly people that actually haven't read seinin titles. Really the maturity was in the mind games, not the premise) It wasn't any darker than some of the earlier Yugioh material... and I hope no one tries to claim Yugioh was seinin.
-
I'm sorry but that's not at all accurate simile at describing the situation considering while the standards for Jump in recent years aren't as loose as they used to be you're forgetting that shonen manga is still a hell of a lot more mature than Nickelodeon lol. I really hope you're not forgetting that shonen, particularly battle heavy stuff, can be pretty dark and can be rather violent even by today's standards. Again when stuff like Death Note can still run in Jump and JoJo still running in Jump until 2004 you have to realize choosing your intended audience can be pretty maleable.
If Death Note and JoJo are the only examples you're going to cite, then again I repeat:
-Death Note, while different and certainly in its subject matter and its exploration of human depravity and morality, is not really as disturbing and horrific as people make it out to be
-You know what, I'll just come out and say that I haven't actually read Jojo. But again it was moved to Ultra Jump.Most other manga I've read to come out of WSJ, while sometimes dark and violent, have never been TOO dark and violent.
But more importantly, I think you might be missing my point. My comparison may have been a bit hyperbolic, but I'm only trying to illustrate senselessness of including a story in a media outlet that doesn't match the outlet's demographic.
But even if I were to follow your flawed juxtaposing Breaking Bad on Nickelodeon example this is still a Breaking Bad that makes millions, has a huge fan base, and is so incredibly successful that the author can be as lazy as he wants to and still have his job when he feels up to it despite being on Nickelodeon. Even if your comparison were at all the case he has a system that works unbelievably well, why should he move to a more "fitting" network?
Well, first off, thank you for making me want to punch Togashi in the face. Secondly, I suppose in a practical sense there really is no reason for it, but I'm talking from an ethcial and logical standpoint. If a new and upcoming artist were to turn in something as dark as the Chimera Ant arc, they'd tell them to either think of something else or move to a different magazine.
Because like I said these labels are completely arbitrary.
No they're fucking not!
Shonen - Pre-teen/Teen boys
Seinen - 18-30 year-old menWhat part of this is hard to understand?!
Especially when it's long been established you can have an audience, whether intentional or not, that is not the primary audience of the magazine and be very successful for it.
And that's fine, but should it come at the cost of including material that may not be age appropriate?
Especially when it's always been the case for not only this magazine (the same magazine that has serialized things like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Bastard!!, Fist of the North Star, etc in the past) but also for the author in particular (the latter half of YYH is definitely not intended for kids nor was Level E).
JoJo and Bastard were moved to Ultra Jump. Hokuto no Ken was published in the 80's, but stuff like that is no longer the norm.
Not to mention other magazines can play by the same rules considering one of my favorite manga is the slice of life Hourou Musuko is on the exact other end of this argument where it's incredibly innocent and adorable but serialized by a seinen magazine despite having essentially zero objectionable content.
Seinen doesn't necessarily mean having objectionable content. It means having a story that appeals to 18-30 year old men.
I could list off other manga that apply to the same principle but having a list of names isn't the point at all but pointing out that X=Shonen and Y=Seinen is just dumb because you can't quantify it solely with age demographics and you certainly can't break it down mathmatically like how a manga needs a certain amount of EXP until it levels up in seinen.
I've clearly defined what the shonen and seinen demographics are. I don't know what more you want. Since shonen is, by its defintion, aimed at underaged children, there are always censorship issues to consider. Togashi really pushes the boundaries of those censorship rules.
Of course, his own goddamn art has been literally censored.
HxH is grim, bleak, and shonen.
With cutesy character designs.
Get over it.
No.
-
You know what, I'll just come out and say that I haven't actually read Jojo.
You haven't lived until you've seen Jojo.
-
I've never read/watched Jojo either
-
I know it has a baby being eaten.
Sounds like something that should be in a seinen.
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
-
Okay now this thread is just going around in circles :p
-
I know it has a baby being eaten.
Sounds like something that should be in a seinen.
I don't think they actually showed the baby being eaten.
checks Oh yeah they straight up show it…..Yup it's violent.
Toriko is getting pretty bloody bathy lately too, but I don't think kids are specifically shown.
-
Anyway, I've mentioned this before, but I think I should clarify once that I don't have a problem with child death in Shonen, per se. Again, I stress, I don't care so much about the content, as I care about how it's handled.
Take FMA for instance. A shonen manga, and it has one of the most shocking and memorable child deaths in recent manga history. But the difference is that that death had a clear purpose that was apparent pretty much as soon as it happened. It showed the dark side of alchemy and it had a profound effect on the main characters that stayed with them through the whole series. It also fit the tone of series (or, rather, I guess it help set the tone of the series). So, as sad, disturbing, and tragic as it may have been, you could at least say the death wasn't meaningless, at least from a story perspective.
Whereas, the kids getting eaten was just an isolated event that really didn't have much meaning. I mean, the point of introducing Kurt and Reina (the kids) was to foreshadow/establish that those eaten by the ants can be reincarnated as ants, or at least their memories and personality carry over. But this could've been done any number of ways. To me, it just seems needlessly macabre.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Okay now this thread is just going around in circles :p
Funny how threads do that.
-
@RobbyBevard:
Jojo actually changed magazines after that happened.
But Jojo switched magazines only after 2004, which means SJ published PartVI.
And PartVI had a child with amnesia getting electrocuted every 6 seconds or so.Okay now this thread is just going around in circles :p
#LifeofHiatusxHiatus
-
I don't think they actually showed the baby being eaten.
checks Oh yeah they straight up show it…..Yup it's violent.
They showed the baby being eaten in the anime as well. But with a slightly more tasteful shadowed shot.
Here is the shot, spoilered for the faint of heart.
!
-
They showed the baby being eaten in the anime as well. But with a slightly more tasteful shadowed shot.
Here is the shot, spoilered for the faint of heart.
Yeah much less graphic than the manga, by like 1000%.
-
This again?
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
-
Well, its not as if there's anything new to talk about. So of course discussion goes back to the old.
If not for the anime this thread would just be closed, honestly.
-
And it's not like it was brought up randomly. I mean, that episode is airing next week.
-
@RobbyBevard:
Well, its not as if there's anything new to talk about. So of course discussion goes back to the old.
If not for the anime this thread would just be closed, honestly.
Too subtle? Gimme another shot, coach.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
-
Too subtle? Gimme another shot, coach.
Soooo…..you hate babies?
-
Most other manga I've read to come out of WSJ, while sometimes dark and violent, have never been TOO dark and violent.
But more importantly, I think you might be missing my point. My comparison may have been a bit hyperbolic, but I'm only trying to illustrate senselessness of including a story in a media outlet that doesn't match the outlet's demographic.
Ignoring for the moment you're still trying to quantify "10 skills points in darker themes and violence levels up in seinen" (which I'm going to bring up again in a bit below) I think you still aren't quite getting why I do keep bringing something like Death Note back up:
@RPGJay:It's not the violent content I was remarking on per se but it's overall tone and how even in relatively modern Weekly Jump you can aim your target audience being other than simply kids.
Death Note ran against the relatively recent primary demographic of Weekly Jump yet was still a success due to the fact that the primary audience are not the only people reading. So, again, the system clearly allows for some wiggle room in choosing your demographic and still making it work. And if it does work like it does with HxH again why bother changing it if by all accounts works even though the mainstream crowd is not the target?
-Death Note, while different and certainly in its subject matter and its exploration of human depravity and morality, is not really as disturbing and horrific as people make it out to be
No they're fucking not!
Shonen - Pre-teen/Teen boys
Seinen - 18-30 year-old menWhat part of this is hard to understand?!
Seinen doesn't necessarily mean having objectionable content. It means having a story that appeals to 18-30 year old men.
So feel free to correct me on this but from what I see your argument is that:
- Death Note wasn't that dark or that filled with objectionable content by whatever vague quantifying system you're using to justify it so it's not seinen therefore perfectly fine to run in Weekly Jump even though the targeted audience is not the primary audience but generally an older population of readers
- But anything that doesn't appeal to a primary audience of younger readers must be moved to a seinen magazine so your argument implies if something like Death Note was still running it should be moved into something like Ultra Jump
This is why I advised against you getting into this argument. You're trying to simultaneously say that seinen doesn't necessarily mean objectionable content but age group but the objectionable content is why you think HxH should just move into another magazine.
This Demographics x Demographics argument is just going to change back and forth to Content x Content until the argument reaches its apex and entropies into the thread's usual Ouroboros x Ouroboros of never ending circular arguments that only ceases when a mod gasses the thread.
I told you, it's dumb and pointless to try to continue this.
With cutesy character designs.
…really? Really. You seriously are going to harp on that? This is a thing that deserves some attention?
No.
Then once again this is neither my problem nor a problem with the manga but yours.
-
You're all wrong. Even the ones I agree with.
End of discussion.
I'll re-open this after the next episode airs.
-
The episode was excellent. Good adaptation and kept me suspenseful through the whole episode. Liked how they showed Reina's story (and got away with it).
-
MadHouse just keeps surprising me. The most exciting thing… they seem to be adapting at a 1 chapter : 1 episode ratio. Meaning the suffering will go on for years.
Thanks Robby for re-opening the topic.
-
the second those kids popped up i felt like shedding a tear
-
MadHouse just keeps surprising me. The most exciting thing… they seem to be adapting at a 1 chapter : 1 episode ratio. Meaning the suffering will go on for years.
Thanks Robby for re-opening the topic.
They actually used 2 chapters, like before Greed Island. By the way they're changing around quite a few things.
Prepare! The new age is coming!
-
That was a really good episode. Kind of slow paced at first but it picked up dramatically in the second half.
And I don't want to open old wounds but you guys made it seem like the children's deaths were just random and unnecessary when they actually ended up being very important to the plot and added to the sense of dread the second half of the episode had as well. Still didn't stop me from gasping in horror at their fates but I understand why Togashi did it now.
-
They actually used 2 chapters, like before Greed Island. By the way they're changing around quite a few things.
Ah… good spot. The episode felt really thorough to me so I was like, maybe they only used one like the previous episode. Darn. This is such an adaptation and I'm greedy and want it to extend as long as possible. :E
Yeah, I noticed the tree-turtle and the interesting looking small insects weren't included. Also, why didn't Kite say "And he has even found himself an amazing partner"? I'm still a big fan of the episode.
-
"Hey big brother when I grow up, I'm going to marry you"
D'aaaawwwwwwKite's nen ability sort of reminds me of the MMPR's White Ranger's weapon. It was a sword named Saba and it could speak. IIRC Saba and Tommy would exchange banter back and forth and argue a bit like Kite and his weapon
Bee girl and Nen arrow guy are showing up next week….
-
Just wanna say one more thing. I think I found a pretty appropriate track for when Killua is going to say "Gon… You are the light." They're probably going to play this and... I'm just not gonna be able to handle it haha. I will cry.
Problem is they're probably gonna have to cut it short unless they find some way to work it in before he says that. I just can't really think of any other time they'll be able to play this wonderful track and they've been covering a lot of new ground with the music lately?
-
After watching the episode now I'm thinking MadHouse is going to nail this arc. seriously they are doing fantastic job
-
The children got eaten. What the hell man.
I'm depressed all day. Still haven't taken my mind off it. D:
"Yes, I'm only bones, but that's because I have an interest… in dieting."
-Gentleman Skeleton Brook
-
99 HXH > Poorhouse Can't stand the Voice actors for this version.
-
The children got eaten. What the hell man.
I'm depressed all day. Still haven't taken my mind off it. D:
It's uh… well uh... they uh... COULD have gotten away. Maybe. If the little brother didn't have it so ingrained in him to protect his sister. They could have ran. But yeah honestly this has really affected me. I've been thinking of photoshopping either the crab ant or the kids with turkeys from the feast to make me feel better.
@Yung:
99 HXH > Poorhouse Can't stand the Voice actors for this version.
ok
-
They could have ran.
How is it possible for 9 year old children to outrun a human sized ant crab ?
-
How is it possible for 9 year old children to outrun a human sized ant crab ?
He attacked it with a stick as far as I remember and stuck around for quite a bit. Granted, something that jarring would probably paralyze me with fear as well. The operative word is could. It's a hypothetical to give the tiniest bit of hope.
Ah never mind, I checked out the manga and he actually didn't. Well there goes my hopes lol.
-
@Yung:
99 HXH > Poorhouse Can't stand the Voice actors for this version.
Too bad for you man. Ah well at least you can re-read the manga.
Anyway I also felt really bad for those kids. I just wish that the crab ant killed them first before taking them back to the queen. Also is Kite's(or is it Kaitoh?) VA shanks' VA?
-
He attacked it with a stick as far as I remember and stuck around for quite a bit. Granted, something that jarring would probably paralyze me with fear as well. The operative word is could. It's a hypothetical to give the tiniest bit of hope.
Ah never mind, I checked out the manga and he actually didn't. Well there goes my hopes lol.
You missed my point; running away was theoretically impossible, even if they decided to do it right off the bat.
-
This episode was a good establishing one. I really liked the music. And I'm really impressed with the animators since their source material for this episode was this mess:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v18/c187/
Seriously looks like pre-storyboard stuff.
-
Btw this was probably discussed before but why was Kaito reborn if he was never eaten by the queen?
-
his weapon has an ability called "like hell I'm going to die". That was explained by ging to gon.
-
This episode was a good establishing one. I really liked the music. And I'm really impressed with the animators since their source material for this episode was this mess:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v18/c187/
Seriously looks like pre-storyboard stuff.
Huh…
Pre-storyboard is just the script, no drawings.
But it does look like a "cleaned" storyboard. I'm saying "cleaned" because since Togashi didn't bother to do backgrounds it's not as messy as it could be. -
So he can force any woman nearby capable of bearing children to bear him? Or does he just overwrite some existing fetus' soul? Unfortunate implications…
-
Th brain was eaten by the queen, i don't think it was shown but it's implied since Kite's body was just a lifeless puppet controled by Pitou's nen and she advised Meruem to eat the brain without damaging the rest of the body.
-
Huh…
Pre-storyboard is just the script, no drawings.
But it does look like a "cleaned" storyboard. I'm saying "cleaned" because since Togashi didn't bother to do backgrounds it's not as messy as it could be.I meant a rough rough draft storyboard. Clearly I wouldn't mean a script. =/
-
Btw this was probably discussed before but why was Kaito reborn if he was never eaten by the queen?
I thought he WAS eaten by the queen. Isn't current Kaito the baby queen fetus looking thing that seemed nearly dead when it was first shown and grew up to be girl-kaito?
I know Kaito's body stuck around for a while as a mindless zombie, however I thought his "essence" (his brains/heart, etc) had been consumed and that's what Colt raised and protected once Smoker let him go for promising to never eat another human
This arc man. This arc
-
I thought he WAS eaten by the queen. Isn't current Kaito the baby queen fetus looking thing that seemed nearly dead when it was first shown and grew up to be girl-kaito?
I know Kaito's body stuck around for a while as a mindless zombie, however I thought his "essence" (his brains/heart, etc) had been consumed and that's what Colt raised and protected once Smoker let him go for promising to never eat another human
This arc man. This arc
That's what I assumed after the arc ended. What throws everything off is that Ging mentioned that Kaito's ability was a factor in keeping him alive. Honestly, Ging's comment kind of just overcomplicated things since the theory that Kaito's brain was eaten, but not his body, works fine.
-
That's what I assumed after the arc ended. What throws everything off is that Ging mentioned that Kaito's ability was a factor in keeping him alive. Honestly, Ging's comment kind of just overcomplicated things since the theory that Kaito's brain was eaten, but not his body, works fine.
What if "Like hell I'm going to die like this" is a situational technique that provides a get-out-of-death-free-card that varies depending on how Kite is dying? I'm sure such a technique has limits, like only being able to use it once in your life. I'm thinking this technique helped Katio's spirit/consciousness shine through and take over his/her new ant body relatively easier than how other people regain consciousness once they've become ants.
The ants are made up of the nutrients/spirits of a variety of humans/creatures. Perhaps the strongest/most dominant out of all the creatures used to produce an ant is the soul of that ant. And that soul can remember it's old life through an experience or through being reminded about their old life. Perhaps "like hell I'm going to die like this" merely helped Kaito be the dominant soul in the ant fetus he was in and helped him understand who he/she is quicker
I don't know. I love this arc, I find a lot of it brilliant, but I also find a lot of it ill-explained and roughly executed. Which is unfortunate due to checks and balances and explanations for Nen and other important things being such a positive staple for this series
When was the last time we saw Kaito's old brainless body? Maybe we'll have two Kaito's.
-
What if "Like hell I'm going to die like this" is a situational technique that provides a get-out-of-death-free-card that varies depending on how Kite is dying? I'm sure such a technique has limits, like only being able to use it once in your life. I'm thinking this technique helped Katio's spirit/consciousness shine through and take over his/her new ant body relatively easier than how other people regain consciousness once they've become ants.
The ants are made up of the nutrients/spirits of a variety of humans/creatures. Perhaps the strongest/most dominant out of all the creatures used to produce an ant is the soul of that ant. And that soul can remember it's old life through an experience or through being reminded about their old life. Perhaps "like hell I'm going to die like this" merely helped Kaito be the dominant soul in the ant fetus he was in and helped him understand who he/she is quicker
I don't know. I love this arc, I find a lot of it brilliant, but I also find a lot of it ill-explained and roughly executed. Which is unfortunate due to checks and balances and explanations for Nen and other important things being such a positive staple for this series
When was the last time we saw Kaito's old brainless body? Perhaps we'll have two Kaito's.
Yeah…The Ant reincarnation is a bit confusing. I can't even clearly remember where we last saw his body either. I have a vague image in my head of Gon seeing it. But that could be way off.
-
By my memory, the last time Kite's body was shown is when Gon dragged Pitou all the way out to where ever they had him, and Pitou told Gon that he was already dead.
