Naruto and Bleach II: I don't have the heart to care anymore.

Deviant_Mugen

But seriously, I view her as more emotionally disturbed than anything, mainly due to Aizen's manipulation.

One last thing, how exactly did Aizen manipulate her? Wasn't he just Mr. Super Nice Guy to her? No matter how nice a person is, the moment they stab a sword through your body and leave you for dead, it's time to stop worshiping the ground they walk on. If I remember correctly, she thought Gin was the true mastermind, right? That's just denial (not to mention irony) on her part. That wasn't a pretend stab, it was three feet of very sharp steel through her body. That was her wake up call, and she just keeps hitting snooze whenever it goes off.

Anyway, this is just something I wanted to get off my chest. As I said before, our opinions are different and I'm in no way trying to force you to change yours…

Daz

@Chopperrules:

Because despite the way she is written, I like her abilities and she has the potential

Isn't her "ability" just shooting fireballs, or am I forgetting something?

@No:

They were never even shown not under mind control.

The weird thing is, Aizens power is creating illusions through manipulation of your senses, not mind control- he can make you see all sorts of weird shit, but he doesn't decide your actions for you. Which begs the question: Just what was going through the giant squads heads as they suddenly decided to march on guillotine hill? And more importantly, what made heavily injured Momo jump off the ground in fake Karakura, and start fighting the captains in the air?
Since it was never stated what she saw, I always find it amusing kooking up my own version:

"Uuuurgh, what happened? I think I lost consciousness. Hm? Oh it looks like the war is over! And Hitsu-sama is cutting the celebratory cake in the sky! Yaaay! Ohmigod, giant bugs! I must defend Hitsu-samas cake with this giant flyswatter I appear to be holding! Shoo sh-Aaaaaargh! Hitsugaya sama….why....did you cut me....and not the cake?"

WolfWood37

So I did some thinking…the fact that Kishi has been implying for years that Tobi is Obito, especially the last 4 chapters is strong evidence that it won't be. Plot twists and all that then I saw a theory on another forum that I thought about all day and the more I thought the more it made sense.

Anyone else subscribe to the theory that Tobi is Naruto or Sasuke from the future?

If opening new dimensions is possible, then time travel isn't a stretch either.

Daz

So what are the odds on Obitos dad/evil older brother then

WolfWood37

@The:

So what are the odds on Obitos dad/evil older brother then

Considering that would essentially be a new character introduction…which would be very hard to believe at this point....I give it a 10% chance.

I give the Obito theory a 50% chance and the future Naruto/Sasuke theory a 40% chance.

Though odds are 85% that we won't find out next week and the fight will shift back to Madara vs the Kages.

Robby

The sheer fact that Kishi is hammering Obitio specifically at this point and Kakashi thinks its him, means it probably isn't.

But its still someone closely related to Obito that's never really been mentioned before, so… that's probably actually worse.

Daz

Well, Obitos way too young to have been present at Narutos birth, so barring some sort of "succession of the mask", I'd say the kamui-eye points to at least a family member.

Deviant_Mugen

@WolfWood37:

So I did some thinking…the fact that Kishi has been implying for years that Tobi is Obito, especially the last 4 chapters is strong evidence that it won't be. Plot twists and all that then I saw a theory on another forum that I thought about all day and the more I thought the more it made sense.

Anyone else subscribe to the theory that Tobi is Naruto or Sasuke from the future?

Not me. Frankly, it sounds really dumb…

WolfWood37

@RobbyBevard:

The sheer fact that Kishi is hammering Obitio specifically at this point and Kakashi thinks its him, means it probably isn't.

But its still someone closely related to Obito that's never really been mentioned before, so… that's probably actually worse.

I agree with you there. However I would buy that this guy somehow got Obito's other eye.

Ace of Spades

The thing is Kishi is in a lose-lose situation now, regarding Tobi's identity. No matter who Tobi really is, it will nodoubt be stupid, and bad. At first he was Madara, then Nobody, now somebody. And there was no foreshadowing to his identity whatsoever.

Also, for some reason, he has Obito's eye, which should have been crushed. Makes no sense.

Chopperrules

@Deviant_Mugen:

One last thing, how exactly did Aizen manipulate her? Wasn't he just Mr. Super Nice Guy to her? No matter how nice a person is, the moment they stab a sword through your body and leave you for dead, it's time to stop worshiping the ground they walk on. If I remember correctly, she thought Gin was the true mastermind, right? That's just denial (not to mention irony) on her part. That wasn't a pretend stab, it was three feet of very sharp steel through her body. That was her wake up call, and she just keeps hitting snooze whenever it goes off.

Anyway, this is just something I wanted to get off my chest. As I said before, our opinions are different and I'm in no way trying to force you to change yours…

Yes, and I'm not saying it wasn't partially her own immaturity in relying far too much on the man emotionally. But Aizen himself did state he "trained her so she couldn't live without him", so he played a role in manipulating her as well.

Think of it like in real life when you have a couple where one person is too kind and emotionally reliant while the other takes advantage of them. You can argue it is the fault of both, but I especially think someone taking advantage of another like that is even more wrong.

We'll agree to disagree. I can certainly get why people don't like her for some of the stuff she's done. But it just wasn't enough to make me dislike her.

@The:

Isn't her "ability" just shooting fireballs, or am I forgetting something?

She's also stated to be a master of Kido and she was able to knock a guard unconscious with her mastery of it. This, like so much else, went away real quick because Kubo forgot about it or didn't give a shit.

@The:

The weird thing is, Aizens power is creating illusions through manipulation of your senses, not mind control- he can make you see all sorts of weird shit, but he doesn't decide your actions for you. Which begs the question: Just what was going through the giant squads heads as they suddenly decided to march on guillotine hill? And more importantly, what made heavily injured Momo jump off the ground in fake Karakura, and start fighting the captains in the air?
Since it was never stated what she saw, I always find it amusing kooking up my own version:

"Uuuurgh, what happened? I think I lost consciousness. Hm? Oh it looks like the war is over! And Hitsu-sama is cutting the celebratory cake in the sky! Yaaay! Ohmigod, giant bugs! I must defend Hitsu-samas cake with this giant flyswatter I appear to be holding! Shoo sh-Aaaaaargh! Hitsugaya sama….why....did you cut me....and not the cake?"

I still wonder to this day what the hell happened that day, and Kubo will never reveal the answer. Now tough I do like Momo, I can't help but laugh at all the jokes involving this scene, because they are so true. It's just a fucked up scene no matter how you look at it.

Sonic Youth

Who believes Tobi is one of Kakashis dogs?

Probably this one…

Probably why Kakashi is so anxious right now…

Daz

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Kishi pulls a Kubo level TWEEEEST for this one.
Like, Tobi is Jiraya or something.
It'd be gloriously awfully hilarious.

@chopperrules:

She's also stated to be a master of Kido and she was able to knock a guard unconscious with her mastery of it. This, like so much else, went away real quick because Kubo forgot about it or didn't give a shit.

So fireballs and doing stuff offscreen. I'm giving Sasakibes bankai flack now, but Hinamori is fom an era where decent sword releases were the norm.
As was once said in this thread: "Life as a Bleach character sucks"
But especially life as Hinamori.

RPGJay

I think we can all agree that no matter who Tobi really ends up being, it's going to be disappointing.

Daz

Depends on how you look at it.
Something like Tobi being the sage of six paths would propably just end up boring.

But something like Tobi being Minatos evil twin brother, or alt. reality Sasuke would have me begging for new chapters…
after I was done laughing my ass off.

valiantt

Okay if we're going to do random Tobi identity speculations, I propose: Dosu! My god…no one would suspect Dosu (in fact, I had completely forgotten who he was). Kishi is a genius!

It makes sense too (bear with me, I'm reaching for straws here): He's covered in bandages just like Tobi. And by golly, his right eye is covered up. For all we know, he got this right eye sharingan shenanigans going on this entire time! He didn't really die back at the Chunin exam. It was just a big conspiracy!

Daz

Tobi is the sage of 6 paths reincarnated as a lump of 1st hokage cells, with magic eyeballs inserted, and a piece of orochimaru sealed inside

valiantt

Aww Daz that's too predictable! Kishi is more clever than that! I mean, look at all the non-stop twists and turns he pulled so far.

Dryish

Tobi is actually just 10-tails incarnate who wants to get back to his original body so he could go home and keep reading the same ero fanfics Kakashi always has with him. What kind of world needs dreams or heroes or, gasp, progression when you can indulge in fantasies and pretend that everything is fine forever?

He is, in fact, also Kishi's self-insert.

No Maam

@The:

Isn't her "ability" just shooting fireballs, or am I forgetting something?

The weird thing is, Aizens power is creating illusions through manipulation of your senses, not mind control- he can make you see all sorts of weird shit, but he doesn't decide your actions for you. Which begs the question: Just what was going through the giant squads heads as they suddenly decided to march on guillotine hill? And more importantly, what made heavily injured Momo jump off the ground in fake Karakura, and start fighting the captains in the air?
Since it was never stated what she saw, I always find it amusing kooking up my own version:

"Uuuurgh, what happened? I think I lost consciousness. Hm? Oh it looks like the war is over! And Hitsu-sama is cutting the celebratory cake in the sky! Yaaay! Ohmigod, giant bugs! I must defend Hitsu-samas cake with this giant flyswatter I appear to be holding! Shoo sh-Aaaaaargh! Hitsugaya sama….why....did you cut me....and not the cake?"

You know I realy do feel sorry for Hinamori. Even Chad is like "I'm glad I'm not her."

Nobodyman

Tobi's probably going to be the Sage of Six Paths or Juubi or someone who's just possessing Obito's body (and other people's bodies over the years).

In other words: yawn.

Md-Martin

Tobi is the rock that crushed Obito.

When the rock crushed him, his mangekyo activated and after Kakashi and Rin left him, it sucked up the rock and transported it to the other dimension.

That is just so happens where Madara was living in exile after getting his ass kicked by the first hokage.

Madara educated the rock in the ways of ending the ninja system, but also in the ways of love. The two became romantically bonded, however as one remained forever ageless(as he's a rock), one became older and older.

Eventually Madara was able to reverse the portal that brought the rock to that dimension, sucking the two out near Obito's sharingan. The boulder took it, and as the Sage of the Six Path's prophecy states, "A rock that gains a sharingan will become a real boy".

Thanking the boy that inadverantly brought him to his lover, and made him a real boy, he decided to carry on his name. However the rock was dyslexic, and became known as "Tobi".

Silverblade

@Md-Martin:

"A rock that gains a sharingan will become a real boy".

I see no contradictions here. Sounds about right.

Baldulf

This post is deleted!

GomuGomuNingen

I was challenged by Tamaki Kawazoe to post here, so… here I go. I will spill my five cents about Bleach and Naruto as a whole.

First off; FLAMERS AND TROLLS AND HATERS ARE WELCOME! :D I AM NOT KIDDING! I DARE YOU, IN FACT! I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHAFUCKA! Because in the end, not a single fuck shall be given. Not even to the ponies, which may burn in Hell.

Alright, now onto the actual post;

Bleach:
Yes, it is true, Kubo Tite is starting to pull shit out of his ass like Oh-I-Am-So-Special-I-Was-Only-Aired-Two/Three-Times-Through-The-Whole-Series Chojuro Sasakibe getting Bankai all of a sudden, and the whole of Gotei 13 getting asswhupped by some steroid-pumped Quincies with über-hax Bankai Stealing Devices just because four Captains went right ahead and tore them out of their asses. HOWEVER! I still find the series interesting. Why? Because no matter of how much suckishness it involves right now, it gives us perspective into characters we've never really appreciated, such as Sasakibe. I find his reasons for not using Bankai to be perfectly understandable. He is not doing it out of stupidity. He's doing it out of being humble, and respecting towards Yamamoto, only willing to use it when his Captain-Commander is in danger. That takes some serious devotion towards a single man. And the current Manga arc actually serves a purpose by ACTUALLY KILLING CAPTAINS! All the fucking time, Kubo has been the shining knight in armor and pulled off shit that allows the Captains to survive. BUT NO MORE! BYAKUYA IS FUCKING DEAD. WHO KNOWS WHO WILL FOLLOW! :D

Naruto:
NaruSasu. This is the one reason Naruto was ruined for most people. Naruto is still obsessed with getting Sasuke back on the good guys' team. We all know it. NOW GET OVER IT AND FOCUS ON THE ACTUAL, FUCKING WAR THAT IS GOING ON! This is THE 4th Ninja World War we're talking about! I can agree with Tobi being Obito (SPOILERS) is rather obvious at this point, but still, who cares! Naruto is not yet lost in my opinion. The moment it IS lost, is when Kishimoto turns it all into a fucking full-on Yaoi Manga full of NaruSasu.

Which he has yet to do. So I am still reading it, for anyone who actually cares. Oh, and All Current Kages vs Madara fucking Uchiha.

'Nuff said.

Well, that was my thoughts of Naruto and Bleach! I do CERTAINLY hope I get comments that will bash on me and hate me, because for my record...

Robby

The hell is that?

Crossword

Happy Wheels .

IceBorg

You know…....we don't mind people having different oppinions and such, but when its written like that..........yeah I won't even bother.

GomuGomuNingen

My thoughts of Bleach and Naruto, and I'm saying that I actually LIKE the series, where seemingly everyone else here hates them.

@IceBorg: I was challenged by one of your members to type up my opinions here, he even dared me to do it because apparently I would get a lot of hate tossed at me. So, here I am.

Chopperrules

@The:

So fireballs and doing stuff offscreen. I'm giving Sasakibes bankai flack now, but Hinamori is fom an era where decent sword releases were the norm.
As was once said in this thread: "Life as a Bleach character sucks"
But especially life as Hinamori.

Seconded on both accounts, because it is so true.

As for the sword releases, I agree completely. Remember the days when a bankai release meant something completely unexpected like cherry blossom blades, giant poisonous baby things, and shit like that. Now in today's Bleach, you get lightning.

Honestly, if you consider how weak the anime Zanpakuto filler made Choujiro out to be, it's pretty amusing in comparison.

@RPGJay:

I think we can all agree that no matter who Tobi really ends up being, it's going to be disappointing.

Probably, when you spend so many weeks hyping it up…

Unless it turns out to be Kakashi's grandmother or something. Which would be...amusing.

Robby

@GomuGomuNingen:

My thoughts of Bleach and Naruto, and I'm saying that I actually LIKE the series, where seemingly everyone else here hates them.

Seems to me like your saying you're really unsatisfied with them at the moment, but looking for a silver lining, just like everyone else.

If it weren't for you namedropping a banned poster and claiming you were trying to start a fight complete with random maniacal laugh, your opinion would be matching everyone else's. What's the problem?

It's not a very good or creative trolling attempt, if truly thats what this is.

@IceBorg: I was challenged by one of your members to type up my opinions here, he even dared me to do it because apparently I would get a lot of hate tossed at me. So, here I am.

Tamaki Kawazoe was banned for being an annoying idiot. Not for liking Naruto.

Shezar

@GomuGomuNingen:

My thoughts of Bleach and Naruto, and I'm saying that I actually LIKE the series, where seemingly everyone else here hates them.

@IceBorg: I was challenged by one of your members to type up my opinions here, he even dared me to do it because apparently I would get a lot of hate tossed at me. So, here I am.

If i remember correctly Tamaki Kazawoe was the one that only talked about games and insisted on it.Dont much about him but unless you are jerk about thing you like whatever that may be ,people here arent going bash on you because of it.

IceBorg

I don't even remember who that is. Is he someone who posted here?

GomuGomuNingen

I was never claiming to start a fight. I was randomly added by that dude on Skype, and he was annoying towards me. So, I got annoyed with him, and when he dared me to do this, I was completely unserious. What he actually did while being said annoyed idiot, I do not know. But now he thinks I'm probably gonna be as hated as he is.

Bottom-line is, I apologize for being rather… unserious and provocative, if that is how you felt about me. I have been on Arlong Park before, but I was nowhere near this socially awkward back then. And I apologize for not reading up on the topic, that kinda happens to me sometimes.

Robby

You're fine. Just hang out a while, see how things are.

We don't randomly bash people for liking something here. Only when they're obnoxious or overly confrontational about it.

Most of us agree we legitimately liked Naruto and Bleach when the series were young, before their long multi-year downward slides. We keep hoping for them to be better, but it never happens.

GomuGomuNingen

Well, I still like to point out that the things I said in the post starting all this actually ARE my honest opinions about this. Though… maybe in a more formal format. ^^;

I just don't see how people think it is JUST going down-hill. It has its ups as well, I think. Like, even if we all know Tobi is Obito by now, I still want to see his face because I have been WAITING so frickin' long! I finally get to see the grand reveal! =D

Robby

@GomuGomuNingen:

I just don't see how people think it is JUST going down-hill.

Pain's resurrection no jutsu.
Naruto completely ignoring Hinata.
Sakura sliding backwards in character development.
Naruto flirting with his mom.
10 billion exploding tags.
Invincible random zombies.
Chihuahua kitsune.
Armadillo penis.

To name a few.

Demonicpoodle

You must admit that it's a big coincidence that the ONE time this guy decides to post, we have a user named "Naruto needs to die!" browsing the thread lol.
I'm not telling that user to stop browsing the thread, I just find it a funny coincidence.
Don't worry we're not that vicious. If Naruto died he'd just resurrect and have a holiday named after him, anyway.

RPGJay

The entire war arc has been the worst part of the series. And good lord that is saying something.

Like, the one good part of war is the Ino-Shika-Cho team moment but even that chapter had attrocious art.

GomuGomuNingen

@RobbyBevard:

Pain's resurrection no jutsu.
Naruto completely ignoring Hinata.
Sakura sliding backwards in character development.
Naruto flirting with his mom.
10 billion exploding tags.
Invincible random zombies.
Chihuahua kitsune.
Armadillo penis.

To name a few.

Okay, that are some parts going down-hill. But c'mon, there ARE ups as well! At least I think so. Like the fight with the Shinobi Commando unit Vs Deidara, Sasori and Sai's ANBU brother. That was definetly an up for me.

Deviant_Mugen

@RobbyBevard:

Pain's resurrection no jutsu.
Naruto completely ignoring Hinata.
Sakura sliding backwards in character development.
Naruto flirting with his mom.
10 billion exploding tags.
Invincible random zombies.
Chihuahua kitsune.
Armadillo penis.

To name a few.

Naruto taking a beating from the Cloud Ninjas.
The seizure.
The Mizukage flirting with her enemy.
Sharingarm.
Senju implants everywhere.
Sharingan-into-Rinnegan.
More Sharingan hax.
Kabuto's flashback.
Orochimaru's return.

To name a few more…

Piitan

@Deviant_Mugen:

Naruto taking a beating from the Cloud Ninjas.
The seizure.
The Mizukage flirting with her enemy.
Sharingarm.
Senju implants everywhere.
Sharingan-into-Rinnegan.
More Sharingan hax.
Kabuto's flashback.
Orochimaru's return.

To name a few more…

Sasuke's almost complete change.
Ghost Dan.
The Ten-tails.
Dragon Kabuto and his blind mom that couldn't recognise him after a few years.
Senile Danzo.

Just to name few more, part two.

Enzeru

The moment the Raikage got swayed by the Naru-church, you knew that the manga had reached a point of no return.

RPGJay

And lest we not forget the Friendship no Jutsu with Kurama that came completely outta left field.

Nobodyman

@GomuGomuNingen:

Like the fight with the Shinobi Commando unit Vs Deidara,

Not sure what you're referring to here.

Sasori and Sai's ANBU brother. That was definetly an up for me.

Those were, like, 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe you could name something more recent?

GomuGomuNingen

… Okay, I think I'm going to stay out of this topic for a moment... I've never been good at bringing out facts, so I suppose I'll never find a fact to where Naruto and Bleach are good. v.v

And once more, sorry for the random outbirst from me earlier, it was totally not on purpose. But in the end, I still like Naruto and Bleach, and I am proud of it.

Haros

@GomuGomuNingen:

… Okay, I think I'm going to stay out of this topic for a moment... I've never been good at bringing out facts, so I suppose I'll never find a fact to where Naruto and Bleach are good. v.v

And once more, sorry for the random outbirst from me earlier, it was totally not on purpose. But in the end, I still like Naruto and Bleach, and I am proud of it.

Liking some series is a personal thing so nobody can tell you that you are wrong. But when you want to prove a point you have to come up with arguments so you can convince the others .

btw no offense but after your first post all i could think was this http://www.mangareader.net/93-44-16/naruto/chapter-39.html .

valiantt

Oh I can say quite a few good things about Naruto….but it only encompasses the first seventy or so chapters.

pyromonki

Naruto's power ups have been pretty awesome and exciting to see. It just hurts that everyone else has been pushed to the side so much.

The way the manga portrays them is as if they've just been sitting around watching tv while Naruto's training which should never be the case.

It's also just flat out disturbing that kishimoto ignored the Rookie 11 fight for 3 shallow cloud ninja characters.

RPGJay

I personally like Sage Mode. I would've liked to see Naruto use that for the rest of the series instead of going super sayian.