Each single pacifsta is decent threat in itself, but a zerg rush of hundreds of them should be dangerous to pretty much anyone on the power scale.
Powerup Predictions and Discussion
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Each single pacifsta is decent threat in itself, but a zerg rush of hundreds of them should be dangerous to pretty much anyone on the power scale.
Absolutely, especially since they would probably be completely invulnerable to Haōshoku Haki. So taking several of them out at once is an impossibility.
However, I dont really know how they would fare against logias. -
One Piece power levels kind of bother me a lot.
The Pacifistas were used as a kind of benchmark pre and post time skip. Before it took the whole party to take one down, and it was pretty tough. After that, the Pacifistas seem to be a complete joke, going down with one hit from Hancock, post time skip Strawhats etc. it just feels completely inconsistent. What's the point in the Pacifistas if they can be taken down so easily by New World pirates?
Well, the Pacifistas didn't even try to kill Hancock, and we didn't really see how the NW pirates accomplished it.
BUT, I have to agree on the post-TS shenanigans. Pre-TS, it took the entire team to BARELY take out a Pacifista. And it's not like they were holding back, they were using their ultimate attacks. "Santoryu Gomu Gomu no Diable Mouton Jet Roppyaku Pound Ho"? Zoro used Asura, for god's sake. Now, we skip ahead to post-TS. Luffy can take one out with a single Haki-fied Jet Pistol. I was like "Well, he used CoA, maybe that can pierce a Pacifista's armor". And then Zoro and Sanji take one out just as easily, it's like… Ehhh, I TRIED not to let it bother me too much, but then Luffy is pulling the same attacks on Hody Jones, and Hody is taking them! Shouldn't he have had a hole in him?
The worst offense though, is probably CP9. Luffy and Rob Lucci were about on par with one another. However at this stage, Luffy was still relatively weak compared to the heavy hitters. Why would they have such weak people in CP9? If it was a proper "intelligence" organisation and they were spies who also happened to be pretty strong, it'd work but they just seem to be fighters.
It's like you read my mind, this has been grinding my gears for a while now. Clearly, the heaviest hitters in CP can't be as powerful as the strongest marines, because the marines are a much more expansive and significant organization. Let's look at another subdivision of the WG, though. Impel Down has a warden named Magellan. I'm not gonna talk at length about this, but I think it's clear what I'm trying to say.
Realistically, Lucci should have been much stronger than he was, because he represented an entire subdivision of the WG.
I have only been able to rationalize it by saying "he's a spy who happened to be a really strong fighter". -
Well, the Pacifistas didn't even try to kill Hancock, and we didn't really see how the NW pirates accomplished it.
BUT, I have to agree on the post-TS shenanigans. Pre-TS, it took the entire team to BARELY take out a Pacifista. And it's not like they were holding back, they were using their ultimate attacks. "Santoryu Gomu Gomu no Diable Mouton Jet Roppyaku Pound Ho"? Zoro used Asura, for god's sake. Now, we skip ahead to post-TS. Luffy can take one out with a single Haki-fied Jet Pistol. I was like "Well, he used CoA, maybe that can pierce a Pacifista's armor". And then Zoro and Sanji take one out just as easily, it's like… Ehhh, I TRIED not to let it bother me too much, but then Luffy is pulling the same attacks on Hody Jones, and Hody is taking them! Shouldn't he have had a hole in him?
It's like you read my mind, this has been grinding my gears for a while now. Clearly, the heaviest hitters in CP can't be as powerful as the strongest marines, because the marines are a much more expansive and significant organization. Let's look at another subdivision of the WG, though. Impel Down has a warden named Magellan. I'm not gonna talk at length about this, but I think it's clear what I'm trying to say.
Realistically, Lucci should have been much stronger than he was, because he represented an entire subdivision of the WG.
I have only been able to rationalize it by saying "he's a spy who happened to be a really strong fighter".Hody was hopped up on tons and tons and tons of power multiplying steroids, so his brute power was probably over a 1000 times his normal one, plus his transformation. Of course he was a major tank. The problem is that he still didn't have the skill to utilize that power effectively, and so all it did was essentially turn him into a super durable punching battle since thats a trait that is more tied to brute strength than technique
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Realistically, Lucci should have been much stronger than he was, because he represented an entire subdivision of the WG.
I have only been able to rationalize it by saying "he's a spy who happened to be a really strong fighter".I see it differently.
Lucci had to face the worst enemy possible with Luffy and his extreme resistance against blunt hits. Every unnamed attack was useless. That left him with:
Rankyaku, which is easy to dodge.
Shigan (Leopard form only).
and Roukougan, which seems to be quite taxing (he was always seen heavily panting after use)
So yes, in my book it was another occasion where Luffy had lady luck on his side. Not as bad as against Enel, but still.
Also, the abilities of the CP9 are godlike when we consider their usual tasks, which is silent killing.
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Blueno can infiltrate any building without effort, the enemy doesn't even see him coming.
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Kalifa can disable her targets without even engaging in real combat. Together with Kumadori's life return they can capture their targets alive without any issues.
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Strong fighters with Lucci/Kaku/Jabra when everything else fails.
So yeah, as a group the CP9 were insanely dangerous and useful, even when you compare them to monsters like Magellan. The latter would obviously kick their ass, but for the needs of an evil government, the CP9 have equal or even greater value.
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I kind of want to see how powerful Lucci is now.
It wouldn't surprise me if he received a major power-up,
he might even use Haki nowadays (even though a lot of his moves amounted to Haki). -
I kind of want to see how powerful Lucci is now.
It wouldn't surprise me if he received a major power-up,
he might even use Haki nowadays (even though a lot of his moves amounted to Haki).I wonder as well, Kaku and Kalifa have loads of room to improve, given that they gained their devil fruit abilities only a few hours before their fights. Especially Kaku had his Zoan barely under control.
Lucci would be ridiculously powerful with haki, but I doubt we will ever see them again in the actual story :sad:
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Lucci would be ridiculously powerful with haki, but I doubt we will ever see them again in the actual story :sad:
Ehhh… Most people who get cover stories, come back eventually. Just look at Hatchan, we thought he was never coming back.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wapol or Gedatsu never came back, but Enel and CP9... I think they have a decent chance. -
So given how strong Jinbei is, isn't it weird that no other fishmen comes close to his power level? There is such a power gap between him and the fishmen
We have fishmen - possibly a bit higher than Arlong level
Then we have Jinbei - able to fight post timeskip Luffy -
When Kaidou shows up we're going to see nightmare Luffy again.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Wapol or Gedatsu never came back, but Enel and CP9… I think they have a decent chance.
.< Isn't Franky made of Wapolmetal now? I think he is coming back.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
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.< Isn't Franky made of Wapolmetal now? I think he is coming back.
The Franky Shogun is made of Wapometal, yeah.
I guess it's possible for Wapol's new kingdom to be in the New World, it would certainly be highly amusing. -
So given how strong Jinbei is, isn't it weird that no other fishmen comes close to his power level? There is such a power gap between him and the fishmen
We have fishmen - possibly a bit higher than Arlong level
Then we have Jinbei - able to fight post timeskip LuffyThis.
Wouldn't it seem there was any other Fishman who could take down any of Hody's goons?
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This.
Wouldn't it seem there was any other Fishman who could take down any of Hody's goons?
I'm hoping that Jinbe's crew will show us at least a handful of very strong Fishmen (like Namur), he even said once that the protection of Fishmen Island should be their job (but they obviously can't)
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I'm hoping that Jinbe's crew will show us at least a handful of very strong Fishmen (like Namur), he even said once that the protection of Fishmen Island should be their job (but they obviously can't)
Meh I think it's just the opposite, because the crew was heavily resized with the split. Most of them are ex-slaves, so I don't think they're pretty strong. At least, they aren't strong enought to survive in the NW without a Yonkou's protection.
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Meh I think it's just the opposite, because the crew was heavily resized with the split. Most of them are ex-slaves, so I don't think they're pretty strong. At least, they aren't strong enought to survive in the NW without a Yonkou's protection.
Hm, Tiger was a slave as well and he was strong…and I think it isn't a sign of weakness that they decided to ally with a Yonkou, especially since they have no desire to conquer anything.
Jinbe said that Big Mom lets them do whatever they want, so they only profit from the alliance.
Now I don't think we will see many top level fishmen, but at least not the kind of fodder we witnessed during the FI arc.
(actually, Wadatsumi and Decken are not that fodderish, the latters df is actually immensly powerful - throwing islands anyone?)
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I'm just saying that the overall power of the crew was reduced. Back then, they were at least double as they are now. Plus the fishmen who left were the original Arlong pirates, so they were already familiar with fighting and piracy in general.
Now what's left are the ex slaves and those who wanted to give up piracy, which means common people who was moved to join the crew only for protecting Fisher Tiger.
Oh, and Jinbe explicitly said he joined Big Mom because it was the best way to ensure his crew's safety. That said, "safety" was an hot topic. Hey, mabye he did it because of his high bounty, who knows. -
I don't want Lucci & co to come back and still be equal to Luffy and them, it ruins the sense of progression to me.
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I don't want Lucci & co to come back and still be equal to Luffy and them, it ruins the sense of progression to me.
I think that if Lucci & co came back, they wouldn't have any direct contact with any of the Strawhats. I could easily see them taking out several New World rookies though, or doing their normal job of gaining information. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a panel of them reporting the progress of several pirates.
Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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I think that if Lucci & co came back, they wouldn't have any direct contact with any of the Strawhats. I could easily see them taking out several New World rookies though, or doing their normal job of gaining information. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a panel of them reporting the progress of several pirates.
Why would they still be working for the WG? They're being hunted by the marines and CP.
But yeah, I doubt that we would see any serious fighting between them and the Straw Hats.
Been there, done that. More likely, they will become relevant when Spandine becomes relevant. -
I don't understand why people say Lucci is weak.
The fight with Lucci probably messed Luffy up more than any other (that he won that is).
You have to keep in mind Luffy's main drawback back then was he lack of Haki to hit Logias.Could Lucci take on Magellan? Not without getting really screwed up in the process.
I am not sure how good even current Luffy could do against someone like that though. -
Why would they still be working for the WG? They're being hunted by the marines and CP.
But yeah, I doubt that we would see any serious fighting between them and the Straw Hats.
Been there, done that. More likely, they will become relevant when Spandine becomes relevant.Good point…I should probably re-read some of this stuff before I make more posts
.Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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Good point…I should probably re-read some of this stuff before I make more posts
.It's okay, some people skip over the cover stories, or don't absorb the information from them.
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Lucci really shouldn't of lost the fight. The only reason he lost is because he let himself take a gear 3rd attack head on because he thought it was just bigger as an intimidation technique. And even then he was still beating Luffy around most of the fight
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Lucci really shouldn't of lost the fight. The only reason he lost is because he let himself take a gear 3rd attack head on because he thought it was just bigger as an intimidation technique. And even then he was still beating Luffy around most of the fight
Also, the power of Usopp.
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Wouldn't it seem there was any other Fishman who could take down any of Hody's goons?
Fukaboshi defeated Dosun easily before the guy resorted to inhaling steroids. They're mermen, but it's 3 of them that are at least on Pell/Chaka level, and likely easily above that.
Oh, and Jinbe explicitly said he joined Big Mom because it was the best way to ensure his crew's safety. That said, "safety" was an hot topic. Hey, mabye he did it because of his high bounty, who knows.
They're former slaves that the marines tried endlessly to retrieve while they were with the Sun pirates. The nobles even tried to retrieve them once after Jinbe became a warlord and got them amnesty (which is long gone at this point). They can't stay at FI anymore, so of course they need protection.
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"The fishmen were so weak, they couldn't fight the fishmen!" Wait, what?
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Fishmen pirates as a rule of thumb are Captain level in the first half of the grand line and fodder level in the second half of the grand line. Anyone stronger than that is probably out in the second half of the grand line pirating as pirates do.
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I don't understand why people say Lucci is weak.
The fight with Lucci probably messed Luffy up more than any other (that he won that is).
You have to keep in mind Luffy's main drawback back then was he lack of Haki to hit Logias.Could Lucci take on Magellan? Not without getting really screwed up in the process.
I am not sure how good even current Luffy could do against someone like that though.because of the relative power levels I talk about here. Luffy was on a similar level to him, yet it took the whole of the SHs to take down a Pacifista. It just doesn't add up.
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because of the relative power levels I talk about here. Luffy was on a similar level to him, yet it took the whole of the SHs to take down a Pacifista. It just doesn't add up.
You are right. There are just so many variables in One Piece in terms of strength though. Technically Luffy shouldn't have been able to beat people like Enel, but there was the crazy coincidence he could
touch Enel because he was made of Rubber.If Luffy wasn't made of rubber and fought Lucci, he would have been dead from the Gatling Shigan. Now one of the issues is that Luffy was able to take down a PX with a single punch after
time skip, meaning he would have gotten numerous times stronger over the timeskip, right? Was it mentioned if the PX he destroyed was the same model as the one they had a hard time beating on SA years ago?
I could see the government making the PX models weaker to be able to produce more. Having a herd of PX robots destroying under 100 Million pirates would be rather effective. -
Was it mentioned if the PX he destroyed was the same model as the one they had a hard time beating on SA years ago?
I could see the government making the PX models weaker to be able to produce more. Having a herd of PX robots destroying under 100 Million pirates would be rather effective.Sentomaru actually refers to them as "outdated models", whatever that means.
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because of the relative power levels I talk about here. Luffy was on a similar level to him, yet it took the whole of the SHs to take down a Pacifista. It just doesn't add up.
Again, at the time the Pacifistas were the latest in the government tech made out of a metal the crew could not even identify. What ever it was, it was made to combat really tough pirates. There really is nothing more to it than that. It would have given ROB Lucci trouble as well judging by his performance with Luffy.
Now Luffy has undergone a major jump that has probably lifted him to that of Haki wielding Vice Admirals(not named Garp). So adding Haki to Luffy's natural brute strength(which was enough to break through a proficient Haki user's defense) It makes perfect sense now that his attacks can Smash through that metal with ease now. Plus there are newer models that wont be trashed so easily, the ones destroyed were the same models they had trouble with so long ago. But those older models handled several 80 million to 300 million pirates fairly well.
As for fishmen seeming fairly weak compared to Jinbe, at least beyond the Neptune Bros we still have Namol/Namor who was strong enough to be one of White Beards commanders.
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Fukaboshi defeated Dosun easily before the guy resorted to inhaling steroids. They're mermen, but it's 3 of them that are at least on Pell/Chaka level, and likely easily above that.
To their credit the three princes beat all of the New Fishman Pirate commanders (minus Hodi and Hyouzou) after they initially popped their pills, but were defeated after they took another round of pills.
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I think Lucci is way stronger than people are giving him credit for, Luffy always had an advantage in major fights, (nightmare luffy vs Moria, being rubber vs enel, and vs croc he had to lose twice before he eventually won through his small chance of sucess), and in the same way, like Jabra said, Lucci was fighting Luffy mostly with blunt attacks, but Jabra explained that better than me.
I also like to have a proper power level between characters, almost OCD level (this is the main reason i give up reading some manga), byt for some reason One piece never annoyed me in that way, i've found there is always a logic behind every win by luffy, Pre-TS luffy & crew sucked to be honest (compared to the big names i mean), they just lucked out most of the time, but when the true test cam (kuma) they couldnt do anything as expected, only post-TS do the strawhats hold a chance of survival in the New World, and as it has been said here too, this is the second Romance Dawn, where we start with enemies who arent capable of fighting the Strawhats.
lets say:
Alvida=Kuma (i know i know just go along)
Axe morgan=Caribou
Buggy crew=New fishman piratesnow we're getting enemies who actually give some challenge to luffy
Kuro(i dont care what you say, kuro himself had some skill, luffy outplayed him but kuro is a East-blue pirate who could soru, he stin injured luffy anyway) = Punk Hazard's Yeti cool brothers
Don Kried (again, he's a weakling now but he still got a couple of shots at luffy) = ??and eventually we will see people who are actually as strong/stronger than luffy.
maybe im wrong about somthing, but for now i feel perfectly comfortable about the power levels in One piece
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Alvida=Kuma (i know i know just go along)
Axe morgan=Caribou
Buggy crew=New fishman piratesI think we've skipped ahead significantly farther than that.
If anything, Caribou represents Buggy or maybe Don Krieg, whereas Hody is a clear rehash of Arlong with more subordinates.
I think that we are in the analogue of the Baroque Works saga now. We just got into the NW and the first thing we saw were whales. -
I kinda agree with you, i was just trying to include every possible enemy that could be considered as an arc villain.
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Who is more likely to be parallel to Arlong, Big Mom or Kaidou, assuming either one of them is brought up after this arc?
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@Superbear:
Who is more likely to be parallel to Arlong, Big Mom or Kaidou, assuming either one of them is brought up after this arc?
Like I said, I think Hody Jones was Arlong.
If Grand Line is analagous to New World, we are already in the BW saga's analogue. And Smoker is present, just like back then.
When the Straw Hearts fight the Yonko, it's gonna be more like Crocodile than anything. Which makes sense, considering. -
Like I said, I think Hody Jones was Arlong.
If Grand Line is analagous to New World, we are already in the BW saga's analogue. And Smoker is present, just like back then.
When the Straw Hearts fight the Yonko, it's gonna be more like Crocodile than anything. Which makes sense, considering.I see what you did there.
Love it, hope this will be the official name for the alliance.
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Like I said, I think Hody Jones was Arlong.
If Grand Line is analagous to New World, we are already in the BW saga's analogue. And Smoker is present, just like back then.
When the Straw Hearts fight the Yonko, it's gonna be more like Crocodile than anything. Which makes sense, considering.Agreed. Especially since their will be an alliance. Its kind of a stretch, but it could be paralleled to Vivi and Co. Hopefully the Strawhearts will leave on excellent terms like the Strawhats did with the Arabastians.
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About the pacifista stuff.
I can't really understand your problem.
You see.The whole crew could barely win against one.
Now the Luffy alone can win against one.That's just HOW STRONG LUFFY IS.
Why is the government doing such weakling shits? They aren't weeklings. They could easily defeat everyone in the first half. And we saw that they could deal with most people at the war of the strongest, and while they eventually got shutdown, they did serve their purpose.
The only person besides Luffy that we saw one shotting them was Hancock. And hell if she isn't underrated by many. She went to the war, did whatever she wanted and didn't even use her Haoshoku. She is strong, there is no point in thinking otherwise.
And this tells us how strong Luffy is. He isn't Yonkou or Admiral level (we got quite the glimpse of what that means in this arc…), but he also isn't the average guy. I'd say he entered the new world as he entered the Grand Line. A crazy rookie, ready to make history. So only the best silver medallists should be able to oppose him, and he could easily be placed among the Shichibukai in terms of strength. There will be a point where we see the level of the new world, and we see Luffy overcome that. I don't know if gassy will be that, but I don't think so. He will probably pwn some guys until the 3rd or 4th strongest of a Yonkou crew brings him to the limit, and then we'll see Luffy exceeding himself. Kind of like the Crocodile scene, except it would lose the meaning if it was an actual Yonkou (as they're the TOP and exceeding that should be reserved for the end of the manga).
I'm sorry for this incoherent babbling, but I'm sleepy. :3 Hope it made some sense.
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@gotta<3OP:
About the pacifista stuff.
I can't really understand your problem.
You see.The whole crew could barely win against one.
Now the Luffy alone can win against one.That's just HOW STRONG LUFFY IS.
Why is the government doing such weakling shits? They aren't weeklings. They could easily defeat everyone in the first half. And we saw that they could deal with most people at the war of the strongest, and while they eventually got shutdown, they did serve their purpose.
The only person besides Luffy that we saw one shotting them was Hancock. And hell if she isn't underrated by many. She went to the war, did whatever she wanted and didn't even use her Haoshoku. She is strong, there is no point in thinking otherwise.
And this tells us how strong Luffy is. He isn't Yonkou or Admiral level (we got quite the glimpse of what that means in this arc…), but he also isn't the average guy. I'd say he entered the new world as he entered the Grand Line. A crazy rookie, ready to make history. So only the best silver medallists should be able to oppose him, and he could easily be placed among the Shichibukai in terms of strength. There will be a point where we see the level of the new world, and we see Luffy overcome that. I don't know if gassy will be that, but I don't think so. He will probably pwn some guys until the 3rd or 4th strongest of a Yonkou crew brings him to the limit, and then we'll see Luffy exceeding himself. Kind of like the Crocodile scene, except it would lose the meaning if it was an actual Yonkou (as they're the TOP and exceeding that should be reserved for the end of the manga).
I'm sorry for this incoherent babbling, but I'm sleepy. :3 Hope it made some sense.
So much this, especially the Hancock part.
People tend to underrate the strength of a character the moment they let their "guard down" (and show some quirks). Jinbe and Hancock are the best example.
As for Luffy, pretty much agree. I see him on a proper Shichibukai level now, means he wouldn't look out of place on this picture:
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Him destroying something the size of a freaking island must be one of the greatest feats of strength shown thus far, including war of the best.
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Yeah, he wouldn't.
One could argue that his basic "strong" attack (Elephant Gun), underwater, is a little bit weaker than Jinbei's Roundhouse Kick, above water. (He defeated the Krakken, Jinbei defeated the punch that defeated the krakken).
But this isn't that linear. Luffy clearly over did it with the Elephant Gun. And even if it is, in fact, weaker, it isn't Luffy's strongest attack. He has Axe (haki version), Rifle (haki version), Elephant Gatling, and so on.
And his mobility and extreme resistance to blunt damage should be taken into account. So yeah, Luffy should be a monster now. I can't wait to see him fight seriously.And this should be the correct thread to ask this…
Do you think Big Mom is exponentially weaker than the other Yonkou? Or are they all about the same?
I think this "cold war" ambient could only be achieved without much difference in strength. But I'd like to hear more opinions. -
You have to take into consideration that Luffy hasn't even used his most powerful move yet, the one that will bring an end to the WG.
Elephant Red Hawk/ Elephant Red Hawk Gattling Gun.
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[QUOTE=gotta
can you link the part where jimbe defeats the punch that defeated krakken? Thanks
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@gotta<3OP:
And this should be the correct thread to ask this…
Do you think Big Mom is exponentially weaker than the other Yonkou? Or are they all about the same?
I think this "cold war" ambient could only be achieved without much difference in strength. But I'd like to hear more opinions.My guess is that Shanks/Blackbeard are the strongest individually, but it would be very disappointing if Kaidou and BM were "exponentially weaker" and only had the same status because of their territory/large forces.
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can you link the part where jimbe defeats the punch that defeated krakken? Thanks
Sure:
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/639/12 the krakken is defeated.
But Jinbei kicks it away - http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/639/13 -
Luffy punched the Kraken a lot harder than Wadatsumi, weakened, underwater. So … yeah?
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I really think all the Yonko are on (were on, in Whitebeard's case) an equal level of strength. (Why would Kaido(u) attempt to attack/defeat Whitebeard–if he actually went after him to attack/defeat him--if he really was the strongest in the world)? Even though Whitebeard held the title of the "Strongest Man in the World", I think he was pretty much equal strength with the other Yonko; I think he simply held the title "The Strongest" because he was the closet to the One Piece.
People, more than likely, are going to presume Big Mam is the weakest Yonko because, more than likely, she'll be defeated by the Strawhat's before Shanks, Kaido(u), and Blackbeard.
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Luffy punched the Kraken a lot harder than Wadatsumi, weakened, underwater. So … yeah?
Jinbei was overwater, so Yeah?
And what makes you say Luffy's punch was "harder" he didn't even knock out the krakken.
And that was just an argument I countered. I did say that meant nothing. :3
