I disagree .
Chapter 652: "Grim Prospects Ahead" -Discussion
-
I disagree .
-
Jimbei is gonna join sooner than expected, yay!
-
C'mon guys, I'm well aware of how his ability works and what it can do; obviously I wasn't comparing the two. The focus and context of my post revolved around Blackbeard's comment to Ace, not what his power can and cannot do.
You're all going the wrong direction here. All I'm looking at is Blackbeard's comment to Ace, as Doflamingo pointed out when he quoted me. Here's Blackbeard's line (paraphrasing): "How long has it been since someone really hit you, Ace?" Again, at the time of this chapter, it was a huge development that someone could hit a logia user, so at the time of this chapter the major focus was on his ability to seal a fruit power. Now that we know so much about Haki the comment he made to Ace makes very little sense, because Whitebeard– among other people I'm sure-- have hit Ace.
Granted, sure, I'll give DarthAsthma (and Wolfwood) a bit more credit for pointing out that Ace could very well not be an "overconfident logia"-- we know he isn't, per Blackbeard's crew-- and could have been defending or dodging Haki users all this time, thus he hasn't really been hit in a long time... but I honestly think that only works as a convenient twisting of words to excuse Oda. My main point is how Oda wrote the scenario, how he focused on the sealing of an ability and Blackbeard being able to hit "overconfident power users"... it strongly suggests Oda hand't quite worked out all of the details revolving around Haki. Again, I could be reading too far into things, and it was just a passing comment... nothing serious here, just curiosity.
i cannot say anything for Oda but we can look at that dialogue and we too can come up with some other conclusion such as Oda write what BB said at the time just to hype BB DF.. I mean from a writer point of view its not the first time Oda ignoring other already established One Piece logic just to hype something or someone like oversize Lucci when the first time he transformed into his human leapord hybrid or when the Shichibukai stand/posing at the marineford before Ace was Roger son revelation. some writer really like to use exaggeration when they want to hype something..
and some another baseless excuse for Oda, maybe like you said Haki user can cancel out each other attack/damage and thats make BB df is a very big deal if you are fighting another Df and Haki user and much more a Logia.
and what Phoenix Zoan said:
@Phoenix:Brennen left out the a big part of the what BB was talking about. He didn't just say I can hit a logia user. The full thing was…........
Blackbeard: It must've been a while since you were last punched...!/ You probably realized as soon as I grabbed you!!/...the other thing that my "darkness" can suck in/is the "devils power"!!!/Meaing while I'm touching his body,/the DF user can no longer use his abilities./ Logia...Zoan...Paramicia!!!/Against all the DF user who overrate their own ability, I've gained an offensive ability who overrate their own ability, I've gained an offensive ability that can never be defended against!!
Ace: Only if I get caught.
So Blackbeard was talking about how his ability works like a DF seastone. That it nullifies a DF user by touching them. Not that he can hit a logia user like haki does.
-
My assumption was by the time luffy met croc and moria they were both a shell of there former self (however the fuck the saying goes) moria it's obvious he blatantly says he started to rely on zombies instead of capable crew members because they got massacred, and zombies to most are invincible the SH's barley survived even when they knew there weakness, and his obvious lack of shape shows you he gave up on fighting physically, and his attitude is now, do it for me, he's not what he was when he fought kaidou, he's no where near that level, that doesn't mean he wasn't, and you don't need haki to be strong in the NW it's obvious it will help but no one has stated you need haki when you have an awesome DF, if your relying on pure physical strength and skill, probably, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the supernovas haven't developed haki and I doubt anyone besides the monster trio in the SH's ever will as it's usually for seasoned warriors who train to obtain it for years
and it was obvious to me now that croc wasn't what he was, his ambition to be the top was obviously destroyed by WhiteBeard, my guess is it has to do with his secret, scar, and his hook, he figured with WB in the picture he could never be a "Gold medalist" so he spent years trying to find out how to capture pluton a device that would allow him to easily destroy the world if he wanted to, or in his case become the ultimate pirate, and then his dreams crashed and burned and then he found out at impel down he'd have a chance to take WB's head when he was busy in battle and give himself the opportunity to take out the man he felt stood in his way, he was burning up with ambition once again, seeing his dreams could come true if WB died (idk what he thinks of the other Yonkou) as to why the regaining of his ambition would allow him to stand up to people he should have lost the ability the fight with after relaxing in the easy part of the Grand line while they stay in constant battle in the treacherous New world, I have no explanation other then Oda obviously wanted him to be relevant again
it's not in my eyes luffy shouldn't have been able to beat him but that he shouldn't have been able to turn a complete 180 and go back to using the kind of power he obviously lost in the grandline just because his ambition came back
I would say staying in the New World and not being in it is the difference between strong and weak, I want to try to put it in terms of baseball
west/east/north/south Blue = elementary school level baseball
Grandline = middle school (extremely weak) to High School (up to supernova)
and the New World = minors (Va's and New World captains) to major league (Shichibukai, Yonkou & crew, Admirals, and now the 2 years stronger Super novas)so I'd say staying in the Grandline to long would weaken you considerably, a year there would get you easily relaxed and to used to being the top and not challenging yourself to anything other then idiot highschoolers who think they might have what it takes even though there just babies
-
Your one of those guys who takes what they want from a sentenece without understanding what is being said, let me make myself clearer they have a long way to go until there ready to take on the yonkous and so, you got that they could most probably beat alot of the new world pirates but if you think they have stopped developing then your mistaken this was said in reference after seing pekmon own caribou who i believe isnt one of big mams atleast top 7 alot of the strawhats would struggle to own caribou like pekmon did besides the monster trio.
Its clear if luffy is going to become pirate king hes small crew must be able to handle rookies like caribou with ease.
They freaked out at the name of big mam and said it themselves that they would get killed if you think the strawhats still can't improve majorly then your wrong they will all grow another level. -
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/48504148/18 (top right panel) could be a dumbass question, but is that Jutte on Smoker's back longer than his old one?
-
Your one of those guys who takes what they want from a sentenece without understanding what is being said, let me make myself clearer they have a long way to go until there ready to take on the yonkous and so, you got that they could most probably beat alot of the new world pirates but if you think they have stopped developing then your mistaken this was said in reference after seing pekmon own caribou who i believe isnt one of big mams atleast top 7 alot of the strawhats would struggle to own caribou like pekmon did besides the monster trio.
Its clear if luffy is going to become pirate king hes small crew must be able to handle rookies like caribou with ease.
They freaked out at the name of big mam and said it themselves that they would get killed if you think the strawhats still can't improve majorly then your wrong they will all grow another level.Okay first of all. Do you ACTUALLY know the current level of the SH's strength? I personally don't know how many can use haki. For instance, if random Kuja pirates can use haki imbued arrows, is it unreasonable to expect Usopp to also have some mastery over it? I don't have the answer.
They freaked out since Big mom is known as an emperor. But does that mean that Big Mom's strength is indeed far more than theirs? Maybe not. I don't expect another time-skip coming, I think the rest of the strength development the SH's will do should come from battles. In that case, SH's won't completely get annihilated by Big Mom. They may lose, but it won't mean utter defeat like back in Shabondy 2 years ago. I don't see why everyone overestimates the Yonkou compared to the SH. The SH's are quite strong..
And Luffy currently has a 400m bounty. That is the world govt's perspective after the war. If they account for his haki and his current level of strength, 400m is not enough at all. Luffy had 300m when he got shitted on by Pacifistas. His strength development is far more than a 100m as far as I can tell.
And caribou is extremely weak. For a Logia user to have 200m is very easy.. At 200m, nearly noone knows how to haki. Luffy @ 300m didnt even know of the word. Either way… my point is that the SH's are getting underestimated quite a lot. I am not saying that they will defeat Big Mom. I just think that we do not have the answers. And if I was to make a guess, I would say that they would not get destroyed and can hold their own ground.
-
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/48504148/18 (top right panel) could be a dumbass question, but is that Jutte on Smoker's back longer than his old one?
Yeah. Hancock broke his old one after all. Though i wonder why its so long–its 7 feet easy.
-
You can if you're an elite NW. Nobody is talking about some random joe with Haki like a nameless Kuja Pirate.
You missed my point entirely.
If you are an elite NW wouldnt you have to have a way to fight logias otherwise you would be long dead. And even if you have haki doesnt mean you hit the individuals. Because logia users can change the shape of their body thus making you not him them. If the logia user has mantra, it can be rather easy for them. An example could be when aokiji made a hole in his body so whitebeard couldnt hit him.
-
I think SH pirates is an even mach for Big Mom's pirates
Straw Hat Pirates vs Big Mom Zoro vs strongest fighter of Big Mom pirates (Zoro now should be at least as powerful as Mihawk)
Jinbei vs 2ns strongest fighter of BM pirates (Jinbei fought equally with Ace, the second division leader of WB pirates)
Sanji (should be as powerful as a shichibukai also after considering his training) vs 3rd strongest fighter of …
etc..Luffy should be fighting Big Mom alone, but maybe he also got help from Kidd
In one piece there are many factors to win a battle, and not just power/haki/DF abilities. Its like watching football.. -
But if Jinbe really joins Luffy now, who else but Aladdin is left of the Sun pirates?
Without Jinbe the WG doesn't giv a $hit bout the sun pirates. They could only capture them to piss off Jinbe.
I like how the G5 people look more like ID-prisoners than like normal marines.
Now I know what Kuzan meant by "G5 is a place with many problems".
Those maniacs seem to be one of the problem if they don't follow orders.
I also see a scar on Smokers right cheek. Seems to be a scratch that could have reached his right eye. -
I think SH pirates is an even mach for Big Mom's pirates
Straw Hat Pirates vs Big Mom Zoro vs strongest fighter of Big Mom pirates (Zoro now should be at least as powerful as Mihawk)
Jinbei vs 2ns strongest fighter of BM pirates (Jinbei fought equally with Ace, the second division leader of WB pirates)
Sanji (should be as powerful as a shichibukai also after considering his training) vs 3rd strongest fighter of …
etc..Luffy should be fighting Big Mom alone, but maybe he also got help from Kidd
In one piece there are many factors to win a battle, and not just power/haki/DF abilities. Its like watching football..Cool. So Zoro has already achieved his goal and its only the halfway point of one-piece. What a lucky lucky man…
-
I think SH pirates is an even mach for Big Mom's pirates
Straw Hat Pirates vs Big Mom Zoro vs strongest fighter of Big Mom pirates (Zoro now should be at least as powerful as Mihawk)
Jinbei vs 2ns strongest fighter of BM pirates (Jinbei fought equally with Ace, the second division leader of WB pirates)
Sanji (should be as powerful as a shichibukai also after considering his training) vs 3rd strongest fighter of …
etc..Luffy should be fighting Big Mom alone, but maybe he also got help from Kidd
In one piece there are many factors to win a battle, and not just power/haki/DF abilities. Its like watching football..I won't say anything :happy:
-
what's the point of shadowing over Smoker's face when we already know what he looks like?
Oda did the same with Croc in ID and he hasn't changed @ all back then (he only wore pirsoner-clothes).
This whole haki discussion still seems kinda meh to me.
To name "meh-situations":
-Vista and Marco slicing Akainu with haki. Akainus neck is sliced open and all he says is:"Oh, those annoying haki users…!"-WB striking Aokiji with haki. All the marines go like:"OMG, did he break apart Aokiji with haki?" and Aokiji is just like:"Don't be stupid/ridiculous!"
There are for sure more situations than I have listed, but I can just remember those.
IMO its a difference if u get hit by haki or if your DF is cancelled by BB's DF.
It also seems to make a difference if both fighters have haki or just one char have haki (Pekoms/Caribou). In WBvsAdmirals case both fighters have haki and Ace seemed to have haki too. He already used it as a kid.
Know what I mean? if u r a Logia AND a haki user, u r top tier even in the NW, but if BBtouches u with his haxpower, u r screwed.
Lets just leave it at that, we don't know more bout haki, but maybe its explained better as the story progresses. -
Great chapter. Looks like the Strawhats might encounter Smoker first before taking on Big Mom. That ought to be fun although I doubt Smoker wil stand a chance. And speaking of Smoker did he really say ONE month? Hodi managed to capture 100 000 pirates just for a month? Seriously? I know piracy is big in this world but jesus that's a lot.
By the way I love the fact that Robin as always looks completely calm even when Luffy mentions that he was ready to take on Big Mom. And speaking of Nico Robin now that's a really nice picture at the end
-
And even if I am a big Smoker-fan, I'm totally lookin forward when Luffy finally gives Smoker a good punch into his face. It sure will break smoker's shades, what a pity, we couldn't even get used to them!
now that Saturnchild posted that pic I thought of a reason why Shirahoshi can't join:
[hide]her name is too long!
think of it, every other SH has a short name. 2 syllables max.[/hide] -
Tashigi,from Ensign to Captain in two years. truely a real rocket. I wonder if she did something magnificent to earn such promotion
-
Tashigi,from Ensign to Captain in two years. truely a real rocket. I wonder if she did something magnificent to earn such promotion
What do you think she did ;). Maybe something with Smoker? Maybe Smoker "trained" her?
-
@marc0.:
I thought the same thing =] Donflamingo is really good guess
also guys 2 billion may not be mistranslation, because it's easy to see 1 more zero than the original written
it would write 210000000belli and he saw 2100000000belli
so my guess is that pekoms doesn't have good vision :DMS has it as 200 million though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So we'll be seeing Kokoro/Iceberg or Franky Family/Shipwrights next week, right? That will be followed by Rolling Pirates, then Amazon Lily. We may then see the people associated with the respective strawhats and maybe Dadan? And that should end the series. Have I missed anyone?
How abou Lola? Idk if she counts.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
after reading Blue-san's analysis…WHY did Luffy give the treasure away.....Big Mom still wants of piece of our good ol' rubber boy.
Even if Big Mom said she'd rather have candy, the treasure was probably given to keep the two subordinates from attacking the Monster Trio or capturing them and bringing them to her or something, idk I'm just spit-balling.
-
Smoker won't be defeated by Luffy. If anything, their fight will be interrupted. Smoker can't lose to Luffy before he heel face turns. Smoker's Luffy's Garp.
-
So we'll be seeing Kokoro/Iceberg or Franky Family/Shipwrights next week, right? That will be followed by Rolling Pirates, then Amazon Lily. We may then see the people associated with the respective strawhats and maybe Dadan? And that should end the series. Have I missed anyone?
Dadan already was in this series. She and her bandits were all wearin SHs.
Anyone from SA doesn't need to be shown, cause the SHs just left a day or 2 days ago. Same goes with the people the SHs trained with the last 2 yrs (Heraclesun, Perona, Weatheria, Okamas, …)
IDK how many vols this series will have. Maybe all Dock1 workers will be shown in one vol or each worker has his own page. I also wonder if Icebarg managed to make W7 floating on the water surface.
And the ones who haven't been shown (Buggy, etc.) will sure have another appearance in the story (Morgan, Croc, ...) -
How abou Lola? Idk if she counts.
Lola is the captain of Rolling Pirates.
Dadan already was in this series. She and her bandits were all wearin SHs.
Anyone from SA doesn't need to be shown, cause the SHs just left a day or 2 days ago. Same goes with the people the SHs trained with the last 2 yrs (Heraclesun, Perona, Weatheria, Okamas, …)
IDK how many vols this series will have. Maybe all Dock1 workers will be shown in one vol or each worker has his own page. I also wonder if Icebarg managed to make W7 floating on the water surface.
And the ones who haven't been shown (Buggy, etc.) will sure have another appearance in the story (Morgan, Croc, ...)http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=34636&p=2489903&viewfull=1#post2489903
Second time, I've had to post this, lol.
Btw, where are we on that chibi yonkou drawing? :ninja:
-
I think SH pirates is an even mach for Big Mom's pirates
Straw Hat Pirates vs Big Mom Zoro vs strongest fighter of Big Mom pirates (Zoro now should be at least as powerful as Mihawk)
Jinbei vs 2ns strongest fighter of BM pirates (Jinbei fought equally with Ace, the second division leader of WB pirates)
Sanji (should be as powerful as a shichibukai also after considering his training) vs 3rd strongest fighter of …
etc..Luffy should be fighting Big Mom alone, but maybe he also got help from Kidd
In one piece there are many factors to win a battle, and not just power/haki/DF abilities. Its like watching football..Lol!!!! !
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oda did the same with Croc in ID and he hasn't changed @ all back then (he only wore pirsoner-clothes).
This whole haki discussion still seems kinda meh to me.
To name "meh-situations":
-Vista and Marco slicing Akainu with haki. Akainus neck is sliced open and all he says is:"Oh, those annoying haki users…!"-WB striking Aokiji with haki. All the marines go like:"OMG, did he break apart Aokiji with haki?" and Aokiji is just like:"Don't be stupid/ridiculous!"
There are for sure more situations than I have listed, but I can just remember those.
IMO its a difference if u get hit by haki or if your DF is cancelled by BB's DF.
It also seems to make a difference if both fighters have haki or just one char have haki (Pekoms/Caribou). In WBvsAdmirals case both fighters have haki and Ace seemed to have haki too. He already used it as a kid. Know what I mean? if u r a Logia AND a haki user, u r top tier even in the NW, but if BBtouches u with his haxpower, u r screwed.
Lets just leave it at that, we don't know more bout haki, but maybe its explained better as the story progresses.No, you are not. You still can use your own power.
WB vs. BB
BB's powers nullify the DF power as long as he touches the user. In this situation the user is not able to attack BB with the DF's power. That's all. This and the fact that no one is able to fight him at distance.
-
Also, we don't know what Pekoms position is in Big Mom's crew. Using the war as an idea for haki usage, it was still very rare to see it being used in the New World. Additionally, just because someone possesses the ability to use haki doesn't instantly make them super strong. Similarly to how Oda is showing through Caribou being a jobber, that having a logia ability doesn't instantly equate to being invincible.
Caribous whole purpose so far was to demonstrate that the NW definitely is too much for people who just have a strong DF (at least to go against anyone with a name).
He got completely owned so many times now with one hit, what makes us just aware that the two years of training were at the right moment.Thank you. Exact post I wanted to make. Not only that comment but Crocodile's role as a Shichibukai and implied status of a silver medalist makes less and less sense too. I thought Croc's status and Teach's comment on Ace not being hit in a long time was indication that even in the New World being a logia can be relatively smooth sailing until running into somebody near the top as long as you were reasonably tough, skilled, and bright on top of your powers. Now it just seems Oda changed his mind on how rare and special he wanted Haki to be.If Pekom's has Haki and seemingly impressive physical stats then all of WB's division commanders and definitely Doma should be able to hurt Ace regardless of how well if a fighter he is.
We shouldn
t forget that Ace was regulary hit by WB while he was fighting against him. Also even when BB mocked Ace about the fact he wouldn
t be used to get hit, Ace was still rly calm and kept on fighting as if he was used to it.
He sure witnessed enough hits from Haki-users, but at that time Oda just had to give BB a line how rare and demonic his yomi-yomi-powers are.
Also it could be that being hit with haki sure hurts more than being hit normally, but the yomi-yomi no mie annihilate your powers and so is even more destructive, which Ace definitely wasn`t used to anymore.@RobbyBevard:
Just because you can hit a guy doesn't mean you can hit him from fifty feet away, block a sandstorm, or survive having your fluids drained or being poisoned.
[…]
I could run up and hit Mike Tyson. I have that capability. But then he would utterly destroy me.Haha, yeah that sounds about right :)
We don
t have to see from now on everyone using Haki as stronger as non-haki users. When you posses it, it sure can make you a lot stronger, but when you
re still not a good fighter you won`t be able to win against a non-haki user. -
(…)
No, you are not. You still can use your own power.WB vs. BB
Well, IDK if this was also in the manga, but in the anime WB stepped on both of BB's arms and then gura'd him. IMO BB can just nullify DFs when he is touching the user with his hands. Would sumhow make sense if we look also @ Croc and Kuma.
I just tried to explain how haki/DFs could work against each other with my point of view.
Cause yet we don't know much bout haki except the things Rayleigh and the Kuja explained. -
Well, IDK if this was also in the manga, but in the anime WB stepped on both of BB's arms and then gura'd him. IMO BB can just nullify DFs when he is touching the user with his hands. Would sumhow make sense if we look also @ Croc and Kuma.
I just tried to explain how haki/DFs could work against each other with my point of view.
Cause yet we don't know much bout haki except the things Rayleigh and the Kuja explained.Here:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-47876-7/one-piece/chapter-576.html
-
Here:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-47876-7/one-piece/chapter-576.html
ok, so we don't c if WB stepped on BB's arms, but still, when BB used his kurozou WB was hitting him with his "Bisento" and then touched his face to gura it into pieces. During that we didn't c BB touchin WB with his hands. Maybe BB only can nullify DFs with this kurozou-attack, but that would also imply that he has to use his hands.
But this is a lil offtopic now. Caribou just relied on his DF and got owned by a haki user. I got no prob with that though I have to say that I also underestimated Pekoms. If OP taught us anything it is not to judge sumone from his looks.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
also I remembered sumone who posted he has a problem with imaging Pekoms pwning Shichibukais left and right and destroying wg-facilities like EL just like Luffy did.
But to point that out: Luffy didn't destroy EL, he destroyed one part of the bridge when using g3rd against Lucci, but EL got destroyed by a BC, not by Luffy. The news have modified the truth a lil bit but since then fans say Luffy destroyed EL. -
@RobbyBevard:
Mangastream fixed the bounty mistranslation HOURS ago, and its STILL causing problems? Oii
Its just because it wasn't the first time. Dunno why but it bugs me..
-
Just gotta say this about Tashigi and her moe crew:
-
Those marines on Smoker's ship from G5 look scarier and more bad intentioned than the BM crew members we've seen so far
-
Blackbeard's comment to Ace makes less sense with every new chapter. I wonder how much Oda had planned, and how much was still developing in his mind, way back when.
Actually it doesnt.You have to remember that Haki doesnt guarantee you can hit all Logias-The Admirals seem quite capable of ressisting Haki attacks as if they were normal.Im sure Ace had leant this same trick to resisting Haki attacks. So when BB said he dnt been hit in a while It could very well have bben true as Ace had learnt to be immmune even to haki attacks.
-
@RobbyBevard:
And how many of those are there? Please, provide a number, and a list of names if possible.
60 that we know of just in WB alliance(you can assume more strong guys than just the captains), now Pekom, Tomago, and Bobbin(latter 2 are likely just mid-level bosses in BM crew), three-eyed girl, 9 redhair pirates, 5 BB pirates, Big Mam, Kaidou, Mihawk, other guys from level 6, and lots more to come. What kind of a question was this?
Well if knowing haki in and of itself isn't relevent, then it comes down to the actual fighter doesn't it? How many pirates have we seen that fit this description of "elite NW pirate that can defeat Crocodile"? How many people can fight a literal force of nature, get close enough to hit a guy that is being smart and fighting from a distance?
Almost 100 so far and we haven't even gotten to the NW or included WG operatives and Marines yet. Sounds like you really just underestimate a whole entire tier of pirates who are most definitely fast enough, skilled enough, durable enough, experienced enough, and powerful enough to fight Crocodile or Overdosed Hodi&Hyozou just fine.
Aside from presumably the four yonkou and the three admirals, how many people have we seen that can definitively challenge Crocodile and all his abilities?
Magellan with his cheap poison? Doflamingo who was able to distract him for a bit? Anyone else?
Croc is one of 8 guys strong enough, influential enough, and with reputation enough, that the government felt it would be far better to give him full amnesty and let him do what he wants than to have to actually try and fight him. He's among the world powers, he is strong.
Just because LUFFY beat him (after three different near death attempts) doesn't mean anything.
Yeah I can see no intelligent discussion will be had with you so I'll just move on. Apparently to you just because you're a Haki user who rivals or surpasses Rob Lucci in power and skill doesn't mean you could fight crocodile.
Your point was Moria should have learned haki after seeing Kaidou. My point was, just because you've ridden a horse doesn't mean you can build a motorcycle.
Swing and another miss. My point is not why doesn't Moriah have Haki. It is more about how unbelievable it is beginning to seem that Moriah could ever challenge a Yonkou and presumably his crew if the Yonkou have subordinates as strong as Pekom who aren't even the elites of the crew. Even if Moriah in peak physical condition himself could dope himself up with shadows to face Kaidou head-to-head it now seems farfetched his crew could handle Kaidou's on their own if Pekom is a glance at the standard level of power among note-worthy NW pirates.
-
Just to butt in on this, I don't think Pekoms is just "standard-level", but never mind. Continue.
-
@Lazy:
Smoker won't be defeated by Luffy. If anything, their fight will be interrupted. Smoker can't lose to Luffy before he heel face turns. Smoker's Luffy's Garp.
Why would Smoker need a heel face turn? Smoker isn't evil. He's one of Luffy's opponents, but he isn't evil. Smoker will always remain a marine, he's most likely the one who will take over once Akainu gets defeated by Luffy.
-
Even when Peckoms isn`t first or second mate he still is one of the few who we will see in an actual 1vs1 fight in the end.
I would say we already saw 40-50% of the important fighters in Big Mums crew and the rest will be just fodder like WB also had so many beside his commanders.
So i agree with Juvar that Peckoms is at least under the top 8 fighters in Big Mums crew and by that far away from standart. -
This is a simple fact, but I love how this automatically puts Luffy on the path to becoming one of the emperors. This battle against Big Mom will take a long time and consume a large part of Luffy's exploration into the New World. Once he wins, though, it's almost as good as set, especially if he wants the strength to defend his territory.
Nonsense. Luffy is attempting to become the Pirate King. The one Pirate above all others. Right now in the One Piece Universe the top Pirate title is shared between 4 pirates. He will not want to become a Yonko just as he did not become a Schibukai.
-
Nonsense. Luffy is attempting to become the Pirate King. The one Pirate above all others. Right now in the One Piece Universe the top Pirate title is shared between 4 pirates. He will not want to become a Yonko just as he did not become a Schibukai.
But the title of yonkou isn
t given away from the WG, you get the title automatically as soon as your influence in the NW couldn
t be denied.
Luffy already proclaimed that he wants FI as his territory and when he will add other islands during his journey and defeat a yonkou he will sooner or later be labeled as a yonkou…also i guess having the same position as Shanks isn`t something Luffy would hate :) -
I honestly believe that we will have about 20 to 30 fighters that will have in some kind a 1 vs 1 fight. From Big Mam crew. Not only her crew but she probably has a lot of allied captains. But I agree peckoms is in the top 8. I honestly believe we will get few skirmishes before this is done.
-
Yeah no i'm as much for knocking Croc down a peg as anybody, but the guy did get through a war that for him included scrapes with Mihawk, Jozu, Don flamingo, and Akainu.
-
This isn't about knocking Crocodile down a peg but how much harder it's becoming to believe Croc is somebody who would stand out to the WG or WB if each Yonkou has a dozen guys around Pekom's level and above just in their crews with autonomous captains of similar strength doing their own thing in the NW. Bar was raised this chapter and that bar makes previous showings and perceptions inconsistent(though in a curious not bothersome way) with how the pirater hierarchy has been presented to us for 650 chapters.
Just to butt in on this, I don't think Pekoms is just "standard-level", but never mind. Continue.
Standard a for a new world veteran/elite not random NW pirate. As in he would be one of the top 200 pirates at Marineford. A level of pirate you would have to contend with first before their boss decides to get serious and have their top guys go after you or go them self.
-
Yeah no i'm as much for knocking Croc down a peg as anybody, but the guy did get through a war that for him included scrapes with Mihawk, Jozu, Don flamingo, and Akainu.
Croc is no joke. Anyone with a ship should consider him a huge threat and deal with him accordingly. That much is evident.
While I think Pekoms, Baron and Tamagon are crazy strong and strong enough to take on Luffy I still think they're just regular crewmates. They're probably moer people like the three eyed girl who could beat Luffy maybe even 13 of them like shurohige's division commanders.
Has anybody discussed the possibility of tashigi having haki. Seems likely to me. I think she would be more than a match for Zoro at this point of time. Also who will fight Sanji?
-
Guys, we still have 2 years of timeskip behind us..everyone was moaning how easy the NFP were defeated but now a regular crewmate should be able to finish the SHs.
Don`t underestimate the training they had over the two years..with some fighting expierence they will be able to go against everyone.
I mean most supernovae made it with not being even close to the current SH-crew strenght.
Afterall they want to "conquer" that sea and not just survive there.We can`t right now have some second-class NW pirates beat their asses because where and when should they get again enough time to develop.?
By now i see that the SHs should be above most of the NW piratecrews.
Where they will have a hard fight is against old veterans of the NW, but with a hard fight they should also be barely able to defeat them.
A yonkou will be the "strenght wall" they still have to climb and i assume Big Mum is the easiest one.
Here they need to made some progress during the story. -
@E7x:
Croc is no joke. Anyone with a ship should consider him a huge threat and deal with him accordingly. That much is evident.
While I think Pekoms, Baron and Tamagon are crazy strong and strong enough to take on Luffy I still think they're just regular crewmates. They're probably moer people like the three eyed girl who could beat Luffy maybe even 13 of them like shurohige's division commanders.
Has anybody discussed the possibility of tashigi having haki. Seems likely to me. I think she would be more than a match for Zoro at this point of time. Also who will fight Sanji?
I don't think Tashigi can control haki yet. It's said that haki must be achieved with ridiculous amount of training and Tashigi's not just there yet. Also she doesn't stand a chance againts Zoro.
She was weaker than Nico Robin in alabasta and in the war of the best Luffy didn't even awknowledge her as a threat. He just jumped over her. -
Swing and another miss. My point is not why doesn't Moriah have Haki. It is more about how unbelievable it is beginning to seem that Moriah could ever challenge a Yonkou and presumably his crew if the Yonkou have subordinates as strong as Pekom who aren't even the elites of the crew. Even if Moriah in peak physical condition himself could dope himself up with shadows to face Kaidou head-to-head it now seems farfetched his crew could handle Kaidou's on their own if Pekom is a glance at the standard level of power among note-worthy NW pirates.
Please, don't forget: Moriah fought Kaidou already 12 yrs ago. We don't know if he had as many allies as WB had @ the war.
There can happen so much in an amount of time.
I personally don't giv a damn if Croc stood a chance against the likes of Pekoms, IMO Oda's idea to bring back already beaten enemies as new enemies/allies is quite good.
BTW its also totally depending on a fighting situation. Croc blew WB's crew away by usin his 101-sandstorm b4 he got brilliant-punk'd by Jozu. But after that he still fought with Jozu/Dofla as well as Mihawk. Mihawk on another side couldn't slice Buggy, how would u predict the outcome of these two fighting? -
Mihawk would punch or hit buggy with the hilt of his sword and Kaidou would still logically have a crew.
Can we stop responding(to me) with talk about match-ups. It wasn't the point of the discussion.
-
Ok, I might sound like a broken record here, but I still think a plot twist (keeping them from leaving) is going to happen. Just my opinion, just a weird feeling.
-
I don't think Tashigi can control haki yet. It's said that haki must be achieved with ridiculous amount of training and Tashigi's not just there yet. Also she doesn't stand a chance againts Zoro.
She was weaker than Nico Robin in alabasta and in the war of the best Luffy didn't even awknowledge her as a threat. He just jumped over her.we're going by her current feat not how strong she was in Alabasta or if you think she couldn't have grown that fast in two years. Wether or not she has Haki her feat is extremly impressive. If she used COO than she has Haki but other wise she just has extreme reactoin and speed. Her feat was on the high end of sword feats we've seen in one piece. To run up to a cannonball roll it on her sword in the few moments it takes for a cannonball to travel a few inches and then flick it in another direction is still more impressive than what Zoro has shown after the timeskip.
Honestly I hope she has Haki otherwise that feat was just too impressive.
-
i'm sure it has been mentioned already somewhere , but considering captain is lower than vice admiral doesn't that mean tashigi has NO haki to begin with? (and i mean full control over it)
smoker now being a vice admiral means he should have haki now.
and this chapter brings us to the question of how powerful IS luffy compared to the new world pirates, with pekoms having atleast coa haki, doesn't that make luffy pretty standard if the rest of big mom's crew is also like that?
let alone other pirate groups in the new world (yonkou included)
pekoms made clear having a logia means nothing in the new world… -
@E7x:
we're going by her current feat not how strong she was in Alabasta or if you think she couldn't have grown that fast in two years. Wether or not she has Haki her feat is extremly impressive. If she used COO than she has Haki but other wise she just has extreme reactoin and speed. Her feat was on the high end of sword feats we've seen in one piece. To run up to a cannonball roll it on her sword in the few moments it takes for a cannonball to travel a few inches and then flick it in another direction is still more impressive than what Zoro has shown after the timeskip.
Honestly I hope she has Haki otherwise that feat was just too impressive.
Remeber that zoro has cut cannonballs in half before the timeskip.
-
i'm sure it has been mentioned already somewhere , but considering captain is lower than vice admiral doesn't that mean tashigi has NO haki to begin with? (and i mean full control over it)
all vice admirals have haki, but that doesn't mean that someone with an inferior rank can't have haki. For example, it's pretty clear that cobby has already haki but i'm comletely sure he still has to walk a long path to be a viceadmiral.