Chapter 628: "Cleansing" Discussion

Urouge

That's most likely the case; whether it's a sentient clone or one she controls herself is still in the air.

With Brook, I can't be sure if his jaw falling off is a new ability or just a sight gag; remember Chopper's antlers popping off with his hat? It's hard to imagine him being able to truly remove body parts when he still needs oxygen despite having no lungs. Still, anything's possible, but I'm of the opinion his musical skills and their possible emotion-affecting powers are the main focus of that panel.

Oda's a big fan of hiding things in plain sight. Yes, it could very well be just a sight gag. But whether it actually is one or is just meant to look that way is anyone's guess.

Demonicpoodle

@KaizokuOLuffy:

Because he's sure that he can fuck Luffy harder than Zoro with those pills?:ninja:

Oh come on, now you're just trying to say innuendo lol. But yes, there are certain pills for that…

Anyway, there's a "giant"-esque fishman on page 5. Not that it matters because we've already seen Wadatsumi, but just something to notice.

tatermoog

Joy Boy…Joy Boy...Jo Bo...JB...

gasp

JOY BOY IS JEWELRY BONNEY, WHO ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO GENDER SWAP! AND SHE GOT THE AGE-CHANGING BOX BACK IN THE DAYS OF THE PONEGLYPH.

Not really, but thought for sure somebody would be making some hare-brained JB conspiracy theory after reading that part. I guess it was me.

Also, forget the new powers, how bad-ass does Zoro look with the bandana and scar combo? Answer: very.

choperman

is that a new form for choper??? like tail point or someting, can't really make it out

D-kun

@Aaronrules380:

Ace was depressed because the fact Roger was his father had gotten him to think he didn't deserve to exist, not because he inherited the spirit of a depressed guy.

The last line was awesome, thank you.

@SH-Avenger:

And people complaining about Sanji being annoying, dude's been at the Momoiro Island for two years fighting Okama's, I doubt he's had any normal conversation since meeting up with the rest of the Straw Hats.

That's a good point, I feel I can better empathize with him right now, haha.

Another incredible chapter, I liked the developments on it, the gags (such as Robin's impersonation, "Because… we're human?", Brook's, Luffy's, etc) and everything else. I hope Luffy can exchange some hits with Jinbe and show he's stronger than him but I'm pretty sure a "real fight" won't happen.

Akumu

@mcdreamy:

Why the hell does Robin enjoy talking to herself in secluded places? She's as weird as Brooke.
And Luffy's face on the last page is similar to one he made when he was arguing with Ussop. It's a friendship battle face lol.

I think that it's just an old habit of being alone for so long. They both do it, and they both have lonely pasts, so it makes sense to me.

onemoment

I'm surprised so many people are saying Jimbei will lose when he's near canonically as strong as Ace. That little detail of "we fought for days" rules out the usual excuses like fighting styles and handicaps, Jimbei is the one person walking in the world who's as strong as Ace. That detail doesn't seem like it's going to be wasted, not when Ace's superiority to Luffy was such a big deal.

Anyway, great chapter. The more time goes on the less likely that theory that Hodi killed Otohime seems unlikely. Does Hodi look like the guy who can hide his emotions? Could he have faked his emotions on Otohime's death? Did he even have a reason to hate humans (to this murderous extent) before Otohime died? Hodi just screams pawn to me. He's evil, but he's in over his head.

Urouge

@onemoment:

I'm surprised so many people are saying Jimbei will lose when he's near canonically as strong as Ace. That little detail of "we fought for days" rules out the usual excuses like fighting styles and handicaps, Jimbei is the one person walking in the world who's as strong as Ace. That detail doesn't seem like it's going to be wasted, not when Ace's superiority to Luffy was such a big deal.

I think the fact that Ace was always older than Luffy and fought Jinbe when he was only 17 must be the most ignored point ever.

pyromonki

@AnimeFTW:

BEFORE the flashback, Sanji's words to Jinbe rubbed some people the wrong way. I get that he's doing it for Nami's sake, but him saying "Whether I forgive you or not" came off as rather annoying and rude to some people. Then there was what he said to Jinbe after Jinbe tells Nami that she endured much cruelty under Arlong: "What would someone like YOU know about it!!?" Yes Sanji, what would Jinbe know about cruelty? Jinbe, who's a fishman and has probably seen many of his fellow people being discriminated against for being merpeople/fishmen, persecuted, kidnapped and sold into slavery, WHICH IS STILL GOING ON TO THIS VERY DAY. Surely that can't count as cruelty, right?

While people completely ignored my post. People are getting mad at something THEY know but SANJI does not. It's called dramatic irony….

He's just trying to support Nami the best way he can without knowing the full situation.

Ryuksgelus

It is a domestic dispute but I can't see Big Mam(more like whoever is guarding the factory) staying quiet through all of this. I can't see Hodi continuing their policy of giving Big Mam candies(ES?) either. So how long before that factory is finally brought into the story? At least a representative coming to tell Hodi they still expect shipments regardless of who is in charge? Funny nobody from the castle has mentioned Big Mam.

Aaronrules380

You also have to consider that they use techniques that would pretty much cancel each other out (Water would put out fire, but also evaporate, so neither side would have an easy time gaining ground)

onemoment

@Urouge:

I think the fact that Ace was always older than Luffy and fought Jinbe when he was only 17 must be the most ignored point ever.

Moreso then Ace beating Luffy without that fire devil fruit? It was practically shoved down our throats that Ace was the stronger fighter then Luffy, and Jimbei the only warrior alive who's his equal. Now, if a real fight breaks out either side could win but Luffy shouldn't have an easy fight by any means. Shouldn't the confirmation that Luffy surpassed his brother be a little more special?

Renegadesoul

THaT CoLOR SPREAD IS ORGASMIC!….ORGASMIC!....AHHHHHH!

GJardim

This chapter is so awesome, the color spread, everything that's happening, and the ending. I expected everything but that, oh dear.

Urouge

@onemoment:

Moreso then Ace beating Luffy without that fire devil fruit? It was practically shoved down our throats that Ace was the stronger fighter then Luffy, and Jimbei the only warrior alive who's his equal. Now, if a real fight breaks out either side could win but Luffy shouldn't have an easy fight by any means. Shouldn't the confirmation that Luffy surpassed his brother be a little more special?

They were kids and Ace was 3 years older. A 7 year old stands no chance against a 10 year old. It has to be that way or Ace isn't relevant at all.

Surpassing Ace at age 17 while Luffy is age 19 is nothing noteworthy in the slightest. The fire fruit would be a notable point except that Jinbe controls water. Water > fire. Jinbe has to be a match for Ace 5 years ago to be relevant now.

Now, when Luffy surpasses the Ace that we saw in present time before the timeskip, at age 20, THAT will be a little more special.

Noqanky

@MDL:

why the heck is Hodi challenging the captain when he got owned by the first mate (who was also suffering from a handicap)?
that doesn't come across to him as flawed logic? guess those pills have sent him a little looney.

I personally think that there's a chance Hodi is not that stupid. Like Sanji said, he's picking a fight, and Sanji is usually the one who waits things out with care (ie. waiting on the train station at Water 7, not rushing into Crocodile's trap, etc.) … he could easily have killed the captured straw hats and used them to send a message, but instead he's holding them hostage like Neptune. So my guess is that he wants to draw in the Straw Hats for a reason, perhaps to use them as examples of cruel humans or to spring a trap on them for his own purpose. (also, hasn't it been mentioned before that what's dangerous about Hodi more than his strength is his mind? Think it was Caimie who said that before ... )

Then again he could actually just be evilly stupid and overestimating the capabilities of the ES.

@AnimeFTW:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. In fact, I can see Sanji focusing on Nami-swan and paying attention to Jinbe only when he said something that Sanji interpreted as being incriminating.

Also, depending on which translation you want to use, Sanji also calls Jinbe a bastard, then tells him to slice open his stomach, as soon as Jinbe finishes talking. The quote is "All right, you bastard!!! Slice open your stomach!!!"

BEFORE the flashback, Sanji's words to Jinbe rubbed some people the wrong way. I get that he's doing it for Nami's sake, but him saying "Whether I forgive you or not" came off as rather annoying and rude to some people. Then there was what he said to Jinbe after Jinbe tells Nami that she endured much cruelty under Arlong: "What would someone like YOU know about it!!?" Yes Sanji, what would Jinbe know about cruelty? Jinbe, who's a fishman and has probably seen many of his fellow people being discriminated against for being merpeople/fishmen, persecuted, kidnapped and sold into slavery, WHICH IS STILL GOING ON TO THIS VERY DAY. Surely that can't count as cruelty, right?

These three points are the reasons why there are people who completely dislike Sanji now. Again, I know what he means and totally understand the sentiment, but his attitude about it is what made people hate him. For the record, I don't completely dislike Sanji; I want Oda to have moments that show that Sanji is still a good person, and hasn't turned into a permanent jerk.

I've got to defend Sanji here as well. Like it has been mentioned by others, Sanji doesn't know what we know. Sure, he heard Jinbe's stories, but as far as he is concerned Jinbe was still responsible for letting Arlong go nuts in East Blue. Also, as far as we (or he) knows, Jinbe has no idea what it's like to witness the death of his mother, to then be enslaved most of his life to help the murderers. Jinbe did witness travesties in his time, like the suffering of Fisher Tiger and the death of Otohime, but that still puts him nowhere close to what Nami suffered.
This is what Sanji knows, and he also heard that Jinbe made himself responsible for Arlong and did nothing, so obviously he is going to side with Nami. Add to that the fact that Sanji considers it tremendously offensive to injure a woman. So being the chivalrous person he is, of course he is going to demand seppuku of Jinbe. Sure, it's NOT for him to demand such a thing, but in his eyes he is because he considers himself the protector of Nami and Robin.

arlekin21

To me Luffy in the last page looks like a fusion of Shanks and Ace

Roronoa Dodo

@onemoment:

Hodi just screams pawn to me. He's evil, but he's in over his head.

+1

Also, you are reading too much into Luffy/Jinbe and Jinbe/Ace. Like Urouge mentioned, Ace was merely 17 and I think its fair to assume he wasn't WAY more powerful than he was back on the island, pre-Logia. Since he'd only just left and probably wasn't in full control of his new powers. I'm not sure how it works in the One Piece universe but I AM fairly certain Jinbe was already near his peak, and hasn't become much stronger than he was back during the fight with Ace.

You do have a nice point that the reveal should be more significant; But Luffy beating Jinbe doesn't have to mean Luffy surpassed Ace. It's been 2 years of continuous training for Luffy, while Jinbes probably been rotting away in FI.

EDIT: Urouge beat me to it.

onemoment

@Urouge:

They were kids and Ace was 3 years older. A 7 year old stands no chance against a 10 year old. It has to be that way or Ace isn't relevant at all.

Surpassing Ace at age 17 while Luffy is age 19 is nothing noteworthy in the slightest. The fire fruit would be a notable point except that Jinbe controls water. Water > fire. Jinbe has to be a match for Ace 5 years ago to be relevant now.

Now, when Luffy surpasses the Ace that we saw in present time before the timeskip, at age 20, THAT will be a little more special.

But, Ace and Luffy lived together until they were teenagers, and Luffy stated when Ace first appeared that he could never beat him. Still without the devil fruit, which btw made Luffy near immune to blunt hits which was all Ace could've used. I don't think age was ever an important point in Ace's relative strength to Luffy. I mean, Jimbei was younger too, so how does age factor into all this?

Sorry, but in hindsight of Ace's death, I can only see Jimbei being used as a marker for Luffy's growth as a fighter.

Aaronrules380

Jinbei was already an adult at that point. a few years is a bigger difference for a teenager or child than for an adult

One_Piece_Of_My_Mind

I think the fact that Ace was always older than Luffy and fought Jinbe when he was only 17 must be the most ignored point ever.

True say lol. I didn't even think about the fact that he was 17 at the time. Good catch, that changes what I think a lot now. I kept thinking the ace we know now against Jinbe so yea, Luffy probably is a lot stronger. That completely changes how I think this "fight" is going to go down next week. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. In fact, I can see Sanji focusing on Nami-swan and paying attention to Jinbe only when he said something that Sanji interpreted as being incriminating.

Also, depending on which translation you want to use, Sanji also calls Jinbe a bastard, then tells him to slice open his stomach, as soon as Jinbe finishes talking. The quote is "All right, you bastard!!! Slice open your stomach!!!"

BEFORE the flashback, Sanji's words to Jinbe rubbed some people the wrong way. I get that he's doing it for Nami's sake, but him saying "Whether I forgive you or not" came off as rather annoying and rude to some people. Then there was what he said to Jinbe after Jinbe tells Nami that she endured much cruelty under Arlong: "What would someone like YOU know about it!!?" Yes Sanji, what would Jinbe know about cruelty? Jinbe, who's a fishman and has probably seen many of his fellow people being discriminated against for being merpeople/fishmen, persecuted, kidnapped and sold into slavery, WHICH IS STILL GOING ON TO THIS VERY DAY. Surely that can't count as cruelty, right?

These three points are the reasons why there are people who completely dislike Sanji now. Again, I know what he means and totally understand the sentiment, but his attitude about it is what made people hate him. For the record, I don't completely dislike Sanji; I want Oda to have moments that show that Sanji is still a good person, and hasn't turned into a permanent jerk

Yea I know all the reasons why people don't view him well right now but I just don't get it. His character hasn't changed at all. Not one bit. (1) First off he's always been an ass hole to anyone when he's currently love struck, doesn't matter who and doesn't matter if they are right. (2) Secondly he's all ways been fucked up to fishmen. He's a cook lol. Think back to Arlong Park when he talked to fishmen. He always described how he would cook and serve each one of them lol. If you think about that now it's fucked up because we have a better opinion of fishmen but back then it was funny because we had a terrible opinion of them. So if anything has changed it's our opinion of fishmen. Sanji is still for the most past the same Sanji from the beginning of the series. So if you look at those two points it justifies everything "rude" that Sanji's done in this whole FI arc. It must also be taken into consideration that he is currently coming off of a very unstable point in his life with woman so his love drive is probably in crazy overdrive right now making him even more of an ass hole than usual. So I really don't understand the Sanji hate.

Urouge

@onemoment:

But, Ace and Luffy lived together until they were teenagers, and Luffy stated when Ace first appeared that he could never beat him. Still without the devil fruit, which btw made Luffy near immune to blunt hits which was all Ace could've used. I don't think age was ever an important point in Ace's relative strength to Luffy. I mean, Jimbei was younger too, so how does age factor into all this?

Sorry, but in hindsight of Ace's death, I can only see Jimbei being used as a marker for Luffy's growth as a fighter.

Are you joking? When Ace left, it was still the difference between an 8th grader and an 11th grader. The level of growth between 8th and 11th grade is pretty massive.

Whether or not Ace could hurt Luffy is totally irrelevant. Look how victory was declared in the one match that was shown to us. Pain was never a factor. They battled to knockdown, not knockout.

A person in their 40's isn't going to improve at anywhere near the rate that someone in their teens will, lol. Come on.

Shift

They can't afford to beat each other too badly and waste time and energy. We all know Luffy and the others will come along whether Jinbe likes it or not and no matter how this scuffle plays out; even if Luffy was somehow overpowered, unlikely as it is, he or any of the others would still force a way to go. The real goal is to figure out how they can all go and still avoid continuing the cycle of hatred. Whether that means Luffy leaving Hordy to Jinbe while he frees the others, both of them fighting Hordy together, or something else, there's no question they'll be going.

EeveeGoPewPew

sanji is the exact same as before. ur all morons. case closed

onemoment

@Urouge:

Are you joking? When Ace left, it was still the difference between an 8th grader and an 11th grader. The level of growth between 8th and 11th grade is pretty massive.

Whether or not Ace could hurt Luffy is totally irrelevant. Look how victory was declared in the one match that was shown to us. Pain was never a factor. They battled to knockdown, not knockout.

A person in their 40's isn't going to improve at anywhere near the rate that someone in their teens will, lol. Come on.

Yes, people get stronger with age. But I think the ability to turn into fire or be rubber is a more important factor. As is our lack of knowledge of fishman metabolism…does Jimbei look like he's actively getting weaker? He punched out a demon guard in one hit two years age, whereas the 17-year-old Luffy needed his gear 3 power. I really don't think age is important in this. I just don't see it. Plus Luffy's fought a ton of people older then him and won.

I'd like to think Ace was better then his brother cause he was a better fighter, not that he was 3 years older. Doesn't that kind of undercut Ace's implied talent? Did he power through the Grand Line line because of his age? I just see so many holes in this line of thinking. I'd rather take the facts listed at face value. Ace kicked Luffy's butt, Ace and Jimbei fought to a draw, and here Jimbei and Luffy are now.

Urouge

Your logic is so broken that it hurts to read.

KaizokuJinbei

@Urouge:

Your logic is so broken that it hurts to read.

~Hands some Alieve or Advil~ (whichever you prefer) did that make it any easier to read?

thewonderer

So Urouge do you think that Ace was stronger than Jimbe at the marineford war?

Urouge

@KaizokuJinbei:

~Hands some Alieve or Advil~ (whichever you prefer) did that make it any easier to read?

Now it makes me nauseous.

@thewonderer:

So Urouge do you think that Ace was stronger than Jimbe at the marineford war?

Yes, I'd say that's a pretty safe bet.

Dubanka

I gotta say, regarding Redon's agonizing mini-spoiler, the Editor-in-chief of Jump has a different definition of "twist" than I do.

Hodi's speech also paints the situation a little too black-and-white for me. Maybe it's necessary for the primary audience of One Piece, young boys, but instead of the final clash of two opposing ideals, we get the heroes stopping the villains from killing half the residents, 3 heroes, and NEPTUUUUNE. Meh. Even "Dark Justice" was more defensible.

At least we have a solid deadline of three hours. Using the Namekian Limit of Shonen Time, 5 minutes in 9 chapters, there can be no more than 324 chapters left in this arc.

piratemarimo

I agree with Robby, that jump cover of Luffy eating his ice-cream-ified friends is creepy. I know it's been said plenty of times, but I love Robin's cloning abilities. I've been wondering if she'd get that since… well awhile now, actually. I see that as a useful tool for gathering information rather than fighting, though. Chopper, Franky, and Zoro are my particular favorites. Sanji too if only because that's one of the few post-ts panels of him looking badass.

Brook Brook Brook... what are we going to do with you? I'm hoping he can detach limbs now, but the color spread seems a bit ambiguous. Luffy's delighted expression at his new bounty is just great. Robin impression was amusing as well, and completely unexpected. Gyoncorde Plaza --> Concorde Plaza? Is that an actual place because it sounds like another pun similar to Gyoverly Hills. Loving the princes more, especially hoping to see Ryuuboshi in action. Joy Boy sounded to me like some kind of candy bar, but now it's got a bit of a different meaning... :ninja:
@Noqanky:

This is what Sanji knows, and he also heard that Jinbe made himself responsible for Arlong and did nothing, so obviously he is going to side with Nami.

Jinbei said he accepted responsibility, but didn't he also clearly state that the reason he did nothing was because he didn't catch wind of it due to the corrupted marines covering it up?
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75149428/13

Sanji is still a dick. But I mostly hate him post-ts for the other reason. I can't wait until he gets his one-on-one fight, so he can go back to the Mr. Prince days. You know, when his chivalry wasn't annoying but cool.

Czechmate

@Hiken:

LOL Hodi is stitched up. You guys shouldn't be so confident when laughing and saying it's Den Den mushi cord again. :P

Hurrhurr, I called something that could easily have been misinterpreted as something else in the one panel it was in, look at meee ~

Awesome chapter… Really liking where all of this is going. "Joy Boy" has me interested too... It's about time we got some more interesting questions to be answered later. :o

thousand_sunny

one of entertaining Chapters with some funny scenes, especially remarks by Usopp and Brook…waiting for the clash and the utterly defeated Jimbei next chapter

lizard81288

I wonder what transformation that is of chopper on the cover chapter page?

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/67430644/2

KaizokuJinbei

@Urouge:

Now it makes me nauseous.

Better than hurting I guess..

Shift

As for Sanji, when I was arguing that Jinbe would need to account for those years he let Arlong roam free, I assumed that it would be a question Sanji would pose, being on one extreme of forgiveness while Nami was on the other. I was sure Jinbe would be acquitted in the end, though at the time I felt there needed to be more to account for his absence than simply not knowing of Arlong's dealings. It wasn't quite enough for me, and it wasn't enough for Sanji, but it was enough for Nami, and I suppose that's what counts.

Czechmate

Not understanding how Jinbe's logic is reaching that much.

If he brings down Hodi, it'll likely restore hope to much of the population.

If Luffy defeats him, the defeat will inevitably be warped by many into a hate-crime type of thing, furthering the cycle of hate even more.

The most extreme Fishmen will react violently either way, but if Luffy defeats him it's likely more people would get sucked into the vengeance cycle.

Loupy

Fukaboshi was awesome! absolute malice on his face! Zoro, Usopp and Brook were great in a life or dead situation and playing the fool like that. Cool color spread and cover! really good chapter! :D

Shift

This post is deleted!

Shift

@Czechmate:

Not understanding how Jinbe's logic is reaching that much.

If he brings down Hodi, it'll likely restore hope to much of the population.

If Luffy defeats him, the defeat will inevitably be warped by many into a hate-crime type of thing, furthering the cycle of hate even more.

The most extreme Fishmen will react violently either way, but if Luffy defeats him it's likely more people would get sucked into the vengeance cycle.

But if, say, Luffy and Jinbe punch him together, it could send a message that neither fishmen nor humans will stand for his malarkey.

King of the Bandits

This might have been said already, but I think that the arc will end with Jimbei and Luffy fighting Hody together.
Compromise FTW.

EDIT: Aaaaaand I didn't even check the last page before posting. Now I look like an idiot. -.-

Otohime

i cant see franky's Nipple-,-

onemoment

@Urouge:

Your logic is so broken that it hurts to read.

Ace was a fire user and Jimbei was a fishman martial artist three years ago before that war….Ace being 17 or 20 wouldn't make a big difference. Ace still fought the same way, so Ace and jimbei fighting to a draw still means the same thing. It's simple. Besides, why can't I assume Jimbei got stronger in those three years too? Again, he shows no signs of getting weaker and this is a universe where Dr. Kureha exists. You're applying a logical fact to a fantasy world, cmon.

But I don't want to lose my starting point, Jimbei vs. Luffy! I regret mentioning things like "either side could win," when I want to argue something much less. Are people suggesting this'll be a squash match in Luffy's favor? Cause I'd like to think Jimbei during the Marineford war earned more respect then that. Did he really seem that weak back then? The guy who tied with Ace, punch Moria in the face, and caught Akainu's punch in his hand? I'm just surprised people think so little of Jimbei. I'd think more people should expect a good fight from both sides. .....anyone want to bet on it?

Shift

@King:

This might have been said already, but I think that the arc will end with Jimbei and Luffy fighting Hody together.
Compromise FTW.

EDIT: Aaaaaand I didn't even check the last page before posting. Now I look like an idiot. -.-

Forget about it; compromise is always worth repeating. ;)

Steven D. Teach

@onemoment:

I'm just surprised people think so little of Jimbei. I'd think more people should expect a good fight from both sides. …..anyone want to bet on it?

Why would anyone bet on that when we know so little about Fishman metabolism? I'll keep the money.

Roronoa Dodo

@onemoment:

I'm just surprised people think so little of Jimbei. I'd think more people should expect a good fight from both sides. …..anyone want to bet on it?

It's not that we think so little of Jimbei, but that post-timeskip Luffy should clearly be able to beat him even if only by a whisker. If not, he should just turn back and stay the hell away from the New World (I mean there's no point if that's all he could achieve with 2 years of training, most of it with the First Mate of the former Pirate King). Heck, I may even settle for a draw, but a loss. Big no no in my opinion.

That being said, I don't think this will be a fight-till-one-us-goes-to-the-ground. It's highly likely that the fight's going to be interrupted(Like many people have already mentioned before)

thewonderer

@Roronoa:

It's not that we think so little of Jimbei, but that post-timeskip Luffy should clearly be able to beat him even if only by a whisker. If not, he should just turn back and stay the hell away from the New World (I mean there's no point if that's all he could achieve with 2 years of training, most of it with the First Mate of the former Pirate King). Heck, I may even settle for a draw, but a loss. Big no no in my opinion.

That being said, I don't think this will be a fight-till-one-us-goes-to-the-ground. It's highly likely that the fight's going to be interrupted(Like many people have already mentioned before)

Urouge makes a great point but I have to say that I believe Ace and Jimbe remained at the same level through the marineford war. Ace never seemed to train at all. Nothing compared to what Luffy went through. He seemed cocky with his fire logia. He never even trained his haki skills. Thing is, by my logic, Jimbe = 2nd commander of formerly strongest pirate crew. For Luffy to be at that level now is high enough for this point, isn't it? Remember though, this is power im talking. Luffy has the severe SEVERE advantage of Haki and thus makes him stronger than Ace in that regard (which is extrememly important in the new world)

EeveeGoPewPew

Can people stop discussing the power level of Jinbei and Ace? It is IMPOSSIBLE to speculate their power level lol. Its like me predicting the weather 2 years from now. This argument is just going to end up going nowhere, might as well spend the next 6 pags discussing aobut something that actually matters. Mb something like if luffy does go to the palace, how is he going to rescue them, since he can't touch water?? (this could also be linked to the outcome of jinbei vs luffy, since imo luffy has no chance of saving them)

Urouge

Fine… I'll break down this ridiculous logic. I'm not convinced I'm not being trolled, though. I'm not sure I can be nice about this...

@onemoment:

Ace was a fire user and Jimbei was a fishman martial artist three years ago before that war….Ace being 17 or 20 wouldn't make a big difference.

You're insane. You think Luffy didn't grow by leaps and bounds in the last two years? How about the less than a year long trip through the first half of the Grand Line with no special training whatsoever? Assuming you understand that he did, why should Ace be any different with an extra year?

Ace still fought the same way, so Ace and jimbei fighting to a draw still means the same thing.

By fighting the same way you mean "using fire?" lol… Luffy fought the same way when he was 7 than he did when he was 17 by using his rubber fruit. He must not have gotten any stronger then. Great logic, right?

It's simple. Besides, why can't I assume Jimbei got stronger in those three years too?

Nobody said you can't. But to assume he'd match someone's improvement who was at an age ripe for improvement and determined is silly.

Again, he shows no signs of getting weaker and this is a universe where Dr. Kureha exists.

This has jack to do with anything. Nobody is claiming he got any weaker, just not stronger to the same degree as a couple determined teenagers in the same amount of time.

You're applying a logical fact to a fantasy world, cmon.

God forbid someone apply logic. This coming from the man talking about fishman metabolism. Way to go to ridiculous extremes each way and not recognize that a massive middle ground exists between the two where most of us live.

If you dismiss "logical fact" then we might as well sit around with our fingers up our asses and read Bleach.

But I don't want to lose my starting point, Jimbei vs. Luffy! I regret mentioning things like "either side could win," when I want to argue something much less.

If Luffy didn't win on land it would be a travesty.

Are people suggesting this'll be a squash match in Luffy's favor?

On land it damn well better not be all that close. At best Jinbe should struggle to hang in there, and that's if we didn't get a good feel for his strength before the timeskip plus decent improvement.

Cause I'd like to think Jimbei during the Marineford war earned more respect then that. Did he really seem that weak back then?

No weaker than Luffy was back then. News flash, that's not weak at all. He seemed relatively comparable on land, or a little bit stronger at best. Certainly not up to the ridiculous level Luffy's at now.

The guy who tied with Ace

Age 17.

punch Moria in the face

Stomach, but it wasn't all that much more impressive than what Luffy did to him, or even at all. Sure, it looked strong, but Moriah wasn't exactly knocked out of the war by it or anything even close.

and caught Akainu's punch in his hand?

By far the most impressive thing that he did, and likely a sign that he knows a bit of armor haki. Skypeia taught us that haki isn't an insurmountable force by any measure, though.

I'm just surprised people think so little of Jimbei.

Nobody does, so stop it. His specialty is also in the water. Now if Luffy gets in a bubble and fights him in the deep sea, that would be different.

I'd think more people should expect a good fight from both sides. …..anyone want to bet on it?

I don't think we should expect a fight at all. I doubt we'll see more than a single exchange that demonstrates Luffy's land superiority before the fight gets stopped, if anything.

If there was anything worth betting over the Internet I'd bet in a heartbeat that Luffy would clearly outclass Jinbe on land if they clash, since I'm about as sure of this as I am of any upcoming event. But there really isn't anything that I'd care about, so it's pointless.

…I apologize for splitting this all up so much.

@EeveeGoPewPew:

Can people stop discussing the power level of Jinbei and Ace? It is IMPOSSIBLE to speculate their power level lol.

No it isn't.

Akumu

Here's my thoughts:

Luffy will win easily. What do I base this on? I'm of the belief that he can't struggle this arc. At all. If he has problems with Jinbe or Hodi then he isn't ready for the New World. Simple as that.

Hell, if any of then have problems with Hodi, then they aren't ready for the new world.

To take it a step further,I'm also of the belief that Jinbe will end up joining, which is why he can't be nearly as strong as Luffy, moreso he should be near Zoro/Sanji's strength.

Now, I do not mean to discredit Jinbe at all. However,two years is a long time to train, and if Luffy struggles now, he needs to stop and train for at least 2 more.

Now granted if Big Mum does show up, then it'll be alright for Luffy to struggle of course, as the situation will have changed.

Once again, no matter the outcome of the Jinbe Ace fights, it has absolutely no relevance to current events.