Naruto Thread IV

[MasterKingJC]

@youngjustice20:

MasterkingKC thats exactly my point. Who gives a shit about a insignificant axe?

Oh really?
What you posted:

They were in the room for 5 mins. Nobody looked to the left where a GIANT FREAKING AXE WAS.

Luffy fought because his brother was their. You think Luffy would give a shit if he wouldn't. Luffy has a one track mind. Law had no reason to save him. His reason was stupid. ohh let me save a future rival that not even my rival yet. He even gets asked by ivan after the war and couldn't come up with a explanation. Pure BS http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c581/14.html Nope Oda kicks the explanation to the curve and just make it boils down to some instincts nonsense.

It's common sense Law took an interest to Luffy.
He didn't have to say anything. It was fucking obvious. A toddler could see it.

[Zack]

@Silence:

To be honest, I'm only following the argument here - this monumentally stupid argument.

No one with two brain cells to rub together can say that women don't get the short stick in this comic.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that Kishi is sexist, but in JUMP Festa Q&As, volume notes, and interviews he's said straight up that he's not good at drawing or designing women, and that he hopes to draw more strong female characters. I read that bit at around the time Yugito appeared iirc, it's somewhere on Narutofan. That says to me there's some acknowledgement that his women could use work.

I mean when Sakura, with all her super strength, is getting choked out by Sasuke when all she has to do is crush his wrists like pine needles, something is desperately wrong. Let's not even get into the whole "a woman's heart changes with the seasons, i'm just a derty hor" speech or, or –

Sakura in general.

Sakura's entire chance for having even a single trait of a good character got thrown out the window she decided to just leave everything up to Naruto and Sasuke for everything to go right completely taking back her vow to become stronger so Naruto wouldn't have to be alone when he tried to bring Sasuke back again.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Silence:

Sakura in general.

Sakura is a walking, talking embodiment of failure. Even her supposed time that she would become a badass had Chiyo doing most of the work.

[sanji499]

I have to say that Sakura's fight against Sasori was the most positive thing she did in the series. I was pleased to see her do something. I thought this was awesome and things were moving in the right direction for this character.

After this arc, well nothing and now she seems even more useless than before.

[Kaze]

so I was wondering… Are we going to sing a song? like past threads? Or no?

[youngjustice20]

@MasterKC Quote the part about insignificant things from my last post. No ur making excuses for BS. He barley knows him and didn't give no reason. Wats ur excuse for the Sanji foot, Meri going through storm/buster call, the Axe etc… LOL You guys are starting to get defensive about OP. LOL Know you see how i feel.

@Silence i saw those interviews too. He struggles to write them yes, but i gave examples of him doing good. LOL Your using Sasuke beating Sakura has a example. Sasuke beat her because he is 10 times stronger then her.

@Kareem Why have you yet to answer outspec post? You made a claim now back it up. Minor background stuff? Yes instituting a order that saves thousands is surly minor. All i am saying is Kishi isn't the sexist person in the world. Kareem its not directly towards you, other people have called him straight sexist. Yes they are people that are saying he sexist. People come in hear and say it all the time. This is just the first time i decided to answer.

[Kareem Said]

@Kaze:

so I was wondering… Are we going to sing a song? like past threads? Or no?

Yeah, that would be nice to sing a song as the thread ends. Let's just settle this matter once and for all. Naruto is a pretty sexist manga. Masashi Kishimoto is not necessarily sexist, but I'd say there's a possibility he is. Honestly we don't actually know the guy, and he comes from a very different culture from us, with a very different way of treating women.
But the point still stands that there is a lot of Unfortunate Implications towards women in Naruto. Women are almost always weaker than men, which yeah I know, that's true of most Shonen manga, but it's not nearly as bad in other Shonen manga. Pretty much every women, even the ones I like, are defined by men. I mean, I think we all decided Naruto's treatment of women was poor years ago. Even before the Gokage summit arc Kishi's treatment of women was faulty at best.

I don't have the direct quote but I remember when Gabzilla said about Naruto.
Come on, even Bleach treats its women better
Bleach!

[MasterKingJC]

@youngjustice20:

@MasterKC Quote the part about insignificant things from my last post. No ur making excuses for BS. He barley knows him and didn't give no reason. Wats ur excuse for the Sanji foot, Meri going through storm/buster call, the Axe etc… LOL You guys are starting to get defensive about OP. LOL Know you see how i feel.

Lol what? You're complaining about shit no one cares about. This is a fantasy manga, nigga. We ain't being defensive, we're just trying to get you to stop talking about diminutive stuff like they're actual flaws.

[WarshipArc]

@youngjustice20:

.

Luffy fought because his brother was their. You think Luffy would give a shit if he wouldn't. Luffy has a one track mind. Law had no reason to save him. His reason was stupid. ohh let me save a future rival that not even my rival yet. He even gets asked by ivan after the war and couldn't come up with a explanation. Pure BS http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c581/14.html Nope Oda kicks the explanation to the curve and just make it boils down to some instincts nonsense.

You're a fool to think that Oda won't return to that plot bit later on in the story. A god damn fool.
And stop bashing other manga when discussing the quality of Naruto.
It's a cheap distraction and makes you come off as desperate.

[Outerspec]

! @Strawhat:
! > Speaking of this scan, it doesn't seem right. The way Itachi is talking, what he's saying. What truth? It can't be the truth that he tried hide from him. It's seem like Itachi really was a bad guy, but with a soft spot for his brother if anything. Why did he have to kill the WHOLE clan? Some didn't even have the Sharingan, and I doubt they were aware of Fugaku's plans.
! The truth Itachi was talking about was on the scripture hidden in the Uchiha's…temple. Or whatever it is. The more advanced your eyes are the more you can read, which is why Itachi said Sasuke needed to gain the MS so he can open his eyes to the truth. This was later brought up again in Part 2 of the series by Madara.
! >! @S.C.:
! > Jiraiya at the time was solely a porn peddler and Tsunade was a drunk with a gambling addiction. Danzo was still the leader of Root, and thought of highly. Power equals rule is one thing, the practaclity of choosing two yahoos over a functioning member of the community is another.
! Danzo was an old man leading a secretive organization underground. Who thought highly of Danzo besides the members of ROOT and the 2 elders? Surely not the majority of the villagers in Konoha. Remember the emergency meeting to choose the 6th Hokage. Danzo wasn't even considered. Kakashi's name was thrown in there and Danzo wasn't mentioned once. I remember this well because I remember laughing my ass off at Danzo and Kakashi because Danzo wanted to be Hokage so bad, and Kakashi thought it would troublesome if he was ever made Hokage. The only reason Danzo was chosen was because of Shisui's eyes (which I'm sure whose power you're familiar with).
! Tsunade was a drunken gambler but they still tracked her down to become Hokage. Jiraiya was not solely a porn peddler. He was travelling around tracking down Akatsuki and gathering information. He was considered for Hokage before Tsunade but he denied it. Their vices were not a problem for the village.
! ======================================================
! From Bleach to Naruto.
! @The:
! > Do I really have to adress the continuity issues of Itachi being a good guy all along? Sigh.

Really?

Off the top of my head:

• Itachi did all he ever did because "he was a kid during war". Thats his unique backstory, that somehow sets him apart from all the other Uchihas that grew up during the war. Itachi didn't even lose any relatives. Thats piss poor weak motivation.
  ! Itachi did all he ever did because of how he was affected as a kid during war. It wasn't just him being a kid during war time. What set him apart from the other kids was how the war affected him personally. Sure, there were thousands of other kids during the 3rd Ninja War but how what one kid takes away from that will be different from what another kid takes away from it.
  ! >! Does Itachi have to lose relatives to be traumatically affected? Witnessing numerous people dying around him at the age of 4 isn't enough?
  ! > - In order to take out the Uchihas, rather than joining up with some of Konohas other covert ops individuals, Itachi goes to find Madara. Whom he for some reason knows is still alive. And whom he finds by walking into the woods. Thats some insane stretch of suspension of disbelief.
  ! I doubt Itachi just walked into the woods and ran into Madara and if people outside the clan suspected Madara was alive (Minato and Jiraiya) why couldn't the Uchiha's #1 genius figure out Madara was alive?
  ! And who better to help eliminate the Uchiha Clan than Uchiha Madara? Screw the Anbu. They're fodder.
  ! > - Madara agrees to kill his own clan. Despite the reason he left Konoha being because he was pissed the Uchihas WEREN'T revolting. If anything, he should have been happy. Also, the Elders don't seem to realize that a century old infamous criminal is assisting Itachi. And Madara states that "he was looking for an excuse for war" and "wanted to take revenge on the leaf", but acts completely opposite to those wishes.
  ! The reason Madara decided to kill his own clan was to extract revenge on those who betrayed him. He already tried to destroy Konoha with the Kyubi 7 years previously so his "revenge on the leaf" ended up in failure. If he can't take down one group why not go for the other? Hell, thanks to Madara's Kyubi attack the Uchiha were sectioned off from the village. This was the perfect chance for Madara to take out the people he felt so betrayed by.
  ! Danzo (one of the elders) knew Madara was still alive and in fact knew he was there at the massacre.
  ! >!
  ! > - Itachis actions were done in order to prevent another Ninja world war, which could happen if the Uchiha coup weakened Konoha, and other nations jumped at the chance. Yet no nation jumps at the chance given by an entire clan of super powerful eyball wankers dissapearing overnight.
  ! Well, one clan being wiped out is a lot different from a nation under civil war. The Uchiha Clan may have been gone but numerous others were still perfectly functioning and ready to defend Konoha. As we can see Konoha has successfully fended off two invasions without the help of the Uchiha Clan.
  ! > - We never even hear what the Uchiha coup d'etat plan was. If it was just about taking over the village they could do that by framing the leaders, and with Itachi, Madara, perhaps even the Kyuubi on their side, a Konoha where Itachi sided with the Uchiha in their coup could have been stronger than an Uchiha-clan less one. Plus, Itachi wouldn't have to kill everyone he loved.
  ! Whatever the Coup d'etat was it was going to be a violent one. Itachi couldn't help that. His father was the one leading it. Itachi had to wipe out the clan because that was the only way to stop them. The 3rd already tried the peace talks.
  ! I do not like the fact that Itachi basically wiped out the entire clan but that's another matter I can ramble on about.
  ! > - Itachi adopted the status of Super Criminal despite being a bona fide hero. Yes, he kills his family, but that makes him an even greater hero. It shouldn't have been hard to get evidence of the Uchiha plot, and if that wasn't enough, frame them to make them seem an even bigger threat. It might have caused some mixed feelings, but I don't think the public would have been completely outraged.
  ! Idk, I just doubt they could have pulled off the whole hero bit after Itachi kills off his entire clan and family. The Uchiha were highly regarded by the villagers though in reality they were treated as the Senju's dogs and isolated, but that's besides the point.
  ! > - What was the point of Itachi and Kisame fighting Guy, Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai. Why did kakashi need to be tortured. Why did Itachi and Kisame track down Naruto if he was working against Akatsuki from the inside.
  What was the point of ANY of that if Itachi was a good guy.
  ! The only person Itachi was helping out was Sasuke. He weighed the life of the entire village under Sasuke's. He actually wanted Sasuke to kill Naruto so he could gain the MS. All Itachi cared about was for Sasuke to grow stronger. It wasn't until later that Itachi found faith in Naruto and entrusted him with some of his power (crow in mouth) to save Sasuke after he was gone.
  ! Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai fought Itachi when he made his way into the village. The reason Itachi was there was to send Danzou a message.
  ! >! And of course they'd fight him because he was their enemy, and of course Itachi would whoop their asses.
  ! > - Why did Itachi capture the four tails. In fact, why didn't he seem to do any damage to akatsuki at all, rather the contrary. In all his years there, he never made a single move against mister Can't-let-my-brother-meet-this-extreme–swirlymasked-bastard.
  ! If Itachi had to kill Jinchuuriki and stay in Akatsuki to keep a close on Madara then so be it. There was nothing he could do against Madara. The best he could do was hold him back and keep an eye on him. He kept Madara away from his brother as long as possible.
  ! >!
  ! > - where does Madara know all this from anyway?
  ! shrugsI think I'm tired.

[Strawhat Chan]

@youngjustice20:

@MasterKC Quote the part about insignificant things from my last post. No ur making excuses for BS. He barley knows him and didn't give no reason. Wats ur excuse for the Sanji foot, Meri going through storm/buster call, the Axe etc… LOL You guys are starting to get defensive about OP. LOL Know you see how i feel.

@Silence i saw those interviews too. He struggles to write them yes, but i gave examples of him doing good. LOL Your using Sasuke beating Sakura has a example. Sasuke beat her because he is 10 times stronger then her.

@Kareem Why have you yet to answer outspec post? You made a claim now back it up. Minor background stuff? Yes instituting a order that saves thousands is surly minor. All i am saying is Kishi isn't the sexist person in the world. Kareem its not directly towards you, other people have called him straight sexist. Yes they are people that are saying he sexist. People come in hear and say it all the time. This is just the first time i decided to answer.

Sasuke isn't physically 10 types stronger than Sakura.

[Daz]

I can't believe I'm starting two discussions with outerspec at once. I must be insane. I'll try to keep this one as quick as possible:

@Outerspec:

Itachi did all he ever did because of how he was affected as a kid during war. It wasn't just him being a kid during war time. What set him apart from the other kids was how the war affected him personally. Sure, there were thousands of other kids during the 3rd Ninja War but how what one kid takes away from that will be different from what another kid takes away from it.

And what was that which affected Itachi so personally? Hmmm? Hmmmmmmm?
Oh thats right, we're never told, in fact " was a kid during war" IS the explanation we are given, not "he saw something particularly awful during the war".
Then again, considering our discussion in the Felch thread, I shouldn't be surprised you think like this.

@Outerspec:

! http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2493/naruto400sleepyfans04.jpgDoes Itachi have to lose relatives to be traumatically affected? Witnessing numerous people dying around him at the age of 4 isn't enough?

You'd think losing people you actually know, especially being a kid, would make you more adversive to war than seeing random dead people. Basically, using Kishi logic, every kid who lost a mother/brother/father/uncle/whatever during the war should have have more reason to do what Itachi did than Itachi.

@Outerspec:

I doubt Itachi just walked into the woods and ran into Madara

Thats all we see. Itachi just walks into the woods and a wild supposedly dead super criminal appeared!
@Outerspec:

and if people outside the clan suspected Madara was alive (Minato and Jiraiya) why couldn't the Uchiha's #1 genius figure out Madara was alive?

Because there was absolutely nothing to indicate so? Because its stupid for even a genius to sit around and suddenly one day, out of the blue think "That guy who founded our clan, and who died fighting the first….I think he might be alive! Based on nothing at all!"
Madara was doing NOTHING at that point. A guy with a funky mask sitting on treestumps should not send out rumors that Madara lives, in which cases he's really shitty at lying low, considering you know, that Konoha might kill him if they knew he was alive.
@Outerspec:

And who better to help eliminate the Uchiha Clan than Uchiha Madara? Screw the Anbu. They're fodder.

They are only so because Kishi is a terrible writer. But really, in a village of NINJA you see no alternative but to seek out a mythical super criminal who might not even be alive in order to take on a COVERT OPERATION? In a ninja village?
@Outerspec:

The reason Madara decided to kill his own clan was to extract revenge on those who betrayed him. He already tried to destroy Konoha with the Kyubi 7 years previously so his "revenge on the leaf" ended up in failure. If he can't take down one group why not go for the other? Hell, thanks to Madara's Kyubi attack the Uchiha were sectioned off from the village. This was the perfect chance for Madara to take out the people he felt so betrayed by.

You don't get anything I say do you. He was "Betrayed" by their ANCESTORS, who didn't want to listen to him anymore. The current Uchiha clan were following in his footsteps, doing as he wanted, rebellion against the leaf and everything.
Madara: Hey guys, listen to me!
Old Uchiha: Fuck off old man

New Uchiha: We shall carry out Madaras will! Overthrow Senju, just like he wanted! Oh look, theres our hero right now!
Madara: DIEEEEEE! REEEEEVEEEEENGE!!!!

@Outerspec:

Well, one clan being wiped out is a lot different from a nation under civil war. The Uchiha Clan may have been gone but numerous others were still perfectly functioning and ready to defend Konoha. As we can see Konoha has successfully fended off two invasions without the help of the Uchiha Clan.

That could not have been known at the time. Also, the loss of the Uchiha not having any effect undermines their strenght completely, and makes it laughable to think they could have pulled off a coup by force, so its dumb either way. Unless of course they were trying to use illusions and trickery to take over without razing Konoha to the ground, but thats just silly isn't it.
@Outerspec:

Whatever the Coup d'etat was it was going to be a violent one. Itachi couldn't help that. His father was the one leading it. Itachi had to wipe out the clan because that was the only way to stop them. The 3rd already tried the peace talks.

The 3rd WANTED to use diplomacy. Its not like the Uchiha knew their uprising had been leaked, so they would propably have been pretty surprised at "peace talks" when it wasn't even supposed to be known they were angry.
But you're missing the point. Why stop the clan, why not join them and make the coup succesful? (Civil war does not = succesful coup, btw)
@Outerspec:

Idk, I just doubt they could have pulled off the whole hero bit after Itachi kills off his entire clan and family. The Uchiha were highly regarded by the villagers though in reality they were treated as the Senju's dogs and isolated, but that's besides the point.

But they were friggin traitors. Itachi could get them all the proof they neeeded, and they sure as hell wouldn't be highly regarded after that. They were like a traitorous terrorist cell within a nation, destroyed by a double agent before they could fulfill their plot to destroy the nation. No way the public would go "he might have saved us all, but Double Agent did it by selling out his terrorist allies! What a total prick!"

@Outerspec:

The only person Itachi was helping out was Sasuke. He weighed the life of the entire village under Sasuke's.
He actually wanted Sasuke to kill Naruto so he could gain the MS.All Itachi cared about was for Sasuke to grow stronger.

What. That was Old!Itachi, New!Itachi wanted Sasuke to become the hero of the leaf, they guy who took down evil nasty Itachi. Good luck with that if you kill the fourth hokages son.

@Outerspec:

Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai fought Itachi when he made his way into the village. The reason Itachi was there was to send Danzou a message.

! http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7708/pic3ia.jpgAnd of course they'd fight him because he was their enemy, and of course Itachi would whoop their asses.

You're just accepting Kishis bullshit at face value are you. And the point of that message was? "I'm still here?" The hells the point of saying that? And it's not like they wouldn't know he was still around considering he's a WORLD CLASS CRIMINAL going around capturing Tailed fucking beasts!
And Again. itachi LOVED the village. He loved peace. He had nothing against non-Uchihas. He adopted the role of a villain for stupid reasons, but its not like he had to fight others to maintain that reputation. He could have just left without harming any of them, and he would still be known as world class criminal Itachi.
There was no reason to injure and torture people, no reason to send a clone after Gai, and no reason to seek out Naruto if he wasn't evil.

@Outerspec:

If Itachi had to kill Jinchuuriki and stay in Akatsuki to keep a close on Madara then so be it. There was nothing he could do against Madara. The best he could do was hold him back and keep an eye on him. He kept Madara away from his brother as long as possible.

! http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/930/pic4ny.jpg

"there was nothing he could do against Madara", what the hell, he never tried. There was a whole big speech about only sharingan users being able to fight sharingan users, Itachi could have at least tried to Ameterasu Madara himself while he was faking his Tobi persona.
But you keep fucking forgetting that Itachi made his life hell TO SAVE KONOHA. To bring peace. He was a goddamn pacifist. Joining the bad guys as a double agent is all well and good, but when you don't fucking sabotage them like a double agent is supposed to do, then you're effectively helping spreading war and death.
Which clashes horrible with New!Itachi.

[RPGJay]

Spoiler tag'd for length.

! @youngjustice20:
! > @RPG Karnai wasn't the only one their. Hmm i don't think is was only for grandchildren. She was acting nuts and want to go commit suicide basically. Kakashi was also told to not fight. Your point would be stronger if Kakashi/Gai(Main characters) were fighting and she was held back and wasn't complaining and needed to be calm down.
! If that was the case, why didn't he just tell her to stand down? If anything, you're proving more and more how absolutely unnecessary it was to mention "YOURAWOMAN GO MAKE ME A GRANBABY".
! There is a significant difference between "stand down this is out of all of your leagues" and "you are a woman live long enough to make a grandchild".
! @youngjustice20:
! > I just named serveral things. She became a Kage,
! Goddammit you haven't been listening to a single damn thing I've said have you?
@RPGJay:
! > So I'll at least address your question about why there are two female kages (Mizukage and Hokage). Just because there are female leaders in Naruto does not mean they are capable or good representations of women.
! From now on, this is going to be my response to anything you say that I've already addressed:

! @youngjustice20:
! > Stoped her village from associating with akasuki, protecting the FL,
! Yeah, both of these things turned out SO well.
! @youngjustice20:
! > beat Sasuke Sasnoo when no Man ability could get through. She beat Sasuke. He was saved.
! She was on the VERGE of defeating Sasuke, but didn't. If I remember correctly, Sasuke was just sealed in with her thanks to chojuro. Before the mizukage could actually do anything of particular value like finish him of with her boil technique or whatever she gets covered in magic zetsu spores and Sasuke is able to escape. It'd be one thing had Sasuke actually been beaten but sadly no dice. As I said, she really just inconvenieced him.
! And come to think of it, has the Mizukage done anything in the ongoing war arc?
! @youngjustice20:
! > Tsaunde isn't defined by who she followed.
! Except, y'know, Orochimaru and Jiraiya.
! @youngjustice20:
! > She became a sennin and the Greatest Doctor in the verse by herself. Kishi makes everyone who family or brother/sister who died get depressed and stuff. She instituted Medical people on the battlefield which must of saved thousands of people by now.
! Which is clearly why she turns out to be useless in most situations now. Why it's almost as if she's being written compentantly only when the plot calls for it.
! Not like that will stop Tsunade from stepping down so our idiot hero Naruto will inevitably become hokage by the end of this arc/series.
! @youngjustice20:
! > How does Temari being in a high position demean her?
!
@RPGJay:
! > You can essentially define the female characters in this series by the man in front of them.

Even Temari, who easily may be the best written and most developed female character in Naruto still has no unique motivations of her own. Her dream and aspirations come entirely from protecting/assisting Gaara.
! It's not so much that she is in a position that she protects Gaara. It's, as stated before, she has no dream or aspirations outside of what a man does. Do I have to spell this out for you again?
! @youngjustice20:
! > Mizkage got to be a Kage why would her dream be still wanting to be a Kage.
! This is the dumbest thing I think you've ever said. I never said anything close to this you dingus. I pointed out that the Mizukage has no dream period.
! @youngjustice20:
! > You just make it seem Kishi is the sexist person ever, but yet Shikiamaru(Who is sexist) trys to be do so towards Temari and gets dissed hard.

Why would a so called sexist allow that to happen?
! Honestly I'm with Silence on this one. I don't think Kishimoto is trying to be sexist. I just think he doesn't know any better. He doesn't have the sort of seething contempt for women that Ohba of Death Note and Bakuman fame has. I'm just pointing out what Kishimoto does do to his women in this series: Follow a man and lack a dream, bland emotionless slate, or offpanel.
! And lol at the link you provided, since that was like the first and pretty much last time Temari contributed anything significant to this series since Kishimoto cannot write a woman to save his life.
Not to mention this pretty much sums up the role of women in Naruto rather well:

[roronoa3000]

@youngjustice20:

@Robby sorry for double posting because i can't edit. When you guys unban my name it just freezes everytime i do anything.
Anyways thats wat i was saying. They indroduced at waterworks to szve them next arc. Obviously the current ship will develop a soul. He already established that. You didn't go into how near dead ship got by a freaking storm/Buster call.

Robby thats the lamest excuse yet. They were in the room for 5 mins. Nobody looked to the left where a GIANT FREAKING AXE WAS. If i made this lame ass excuse you guys would of called me out.

Law had no relationship with Luffy. He said like two words to him. The Gov posts all kinds of misinformation in the newspaper. How the hell does he geta a clear grasp of Luffy accomplishments? Law had no reason to risk his life for Luffy. He barley new him for god sakes. ohh i am going to save my rival even through we didn't even start our rivalry yet. LOL Yep The Supernova happens to be a great doctor. Grasping for straws again.

Robby don't try to make me a fool. You must think i don't read OP for that excuse on G2. I read OP like Naruto. Luffy had no time to get G2 and no hint at all. It was a Asspull to the max. Even you admitted this to me before when i was juju. If i remember correctly " You would relize that OP fans criticise Oda too if you actually ever visted to OP manga section" Robby don't try BS me pls. I remember everything. You didn't explain Sanji.

Luffy durability is out of wack. He can get smashed hit at light speed but doesn't affect him but the dail did. Nobody was talking about swords, water, fire etc…. Brute force has been inconsistent.

G3 is strech fantasy logic that he created. Why was Sabo and Ace beating his ass has a kid? He rubber. Its plot specified.

Robby i know you have great debating skills from long ago. IDK why you tried to justify these BS by ODA. You sound like a fanboy. Do you see me defending a clear asspull/no build up like Sasuke hawk summon. Even OP fans think the ship and G2 is BS. Its funny that i get call the fanboy.

[ponx]

Wow. I have never thought this thing about asspulls from Enies Lobby is still on going. So I figure I'll say my piece.

! First is the definition of the word, I've seen tons of arguments never settled simply because both sides are apparently talking about 2 different things.
! IMO, asspull means some plot device written by the author not because the story demands it, but simply because the author couldn't think of anything else on how to progress the plot/story.
So that means it doesnt have to be hinted before, but as long as its logical (with the things previously established in the story) and consistent to the story itself.
! Now thats out of the way. On to Enies Lobby:
! 1. G2 & G3 : The need of a power up is there when they were defeated by Aokiji and made realize that there are much greater power then what they have previously encountered. Luffy himself stated that he got some new moves he wanted to try out when they r still in Rocketman, right before they reached EL. Given the circumstances, Luffy's powerups is nowhere near an asspull. The move itself were based on his rubber properties, so its not sumtin written out of the blue.
! 2. Zoro's Ashura : Need to power up was also established, and we've seen through the course of his fights that Oda keeps drawing his moves with silhouette backgrounds of animals n stuff, aura if u will. So its not too far-fetched to say that Ashura is just his aura solidified.
! 3. Diable Jambre : The need for power up is still there. but compared to the other 2, there is absolutely no hint or no signs of him using anything remotely similar to it. So from the 3, Sanji's move is the one I would say an asspull.
! 4. Going Merry : We saw something repairing Merry in Skypiea, and Franky saying about a Klabautermann as a spirit's ship. So its established that a ship can have a spirit, and Going Merry had it. The only thing that resembles an asspull is the fact that it can travel through Aqua Laguna and right to the Strawhats.

So thats my 2 cents, if u want to argue with me, read my definition of the word asspull first, I dont want to be arguing about sumtin we have different meanings about

[youngjustice20]

@Ponx Your fellow OP fans say thats BS. If i don't forshadow its BS. This is the reason i don't argue with them about Sasuke hawk summoning. I conceded to that because they kept telling me "Kishi could of used a panel to atleast show him with a summoning scroll." I actually agree with you, but since where in this discussion where i have been called out forshadowing no matter wat. I have to do the same to you. Show me where its forshadowed are its BS. I didn't say Zoro one was asspull. Zoro trains every day and Oda refers to him has a demon. I said Sanji/Luffy was a asspull.

@RPG He told her to live another day because she was going to be killed.
I have listened to everything you said. Just because you claim i can't use being a Kage has a reason doesn't stop me from feeling different. I am not saying just because they are Kages make them a good representation of Women. I said that to to strengthen my point about Kishi being a sexist. My point is why would he bother putting Women at such a high status if he he sexist? When they were considering Tsaunde for Hokage. I didn't hear anything about her being a women. All you heard was legendary sennin.

Yea they did turn out well. LOL

She kicked Sasuke ass and Zetsu saved him. Obviously Sasuke the2nd Main character isn't going to die like we all know Zoro won't die or he will get saved. My point was She got through Sasnoo when noone else could and Sasuke gets bailed out. She is protection the FL right know and tricked Zetsu with her plan. http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-526-page-6.html She hasn't fought yet through, but plenty of characters haven't fought yet.

She doesn't follow them. They were a team. She disrespects them all the time and When Jman stayed to train pein she left. They all did wat they wanted. Show me a scan of them bossing her around.

No the scene clearly shows Shikiamaru sexist ways getting stomp to hell. Got beat by a girl, saved by a girl who got the Order from a girl. 3 girls just proved him wrong in that scene

[Outerspec]

@The:

I can't believe I'm starting two discussions with outerspec at once. I must be insane. I'll try to keep this one as quick as possible:

And what was that which affected Itachi so personally? Hmmm? Hmmmmmmm?
Oh thats right, we're never told, in fact " was a kid during war" IS the explanation we are given, not "he saw something particularly awful during the war".
Then again, considering our discussion in the Felch thread, I shouldn't be surprised you think like this.

You'd think losing people you actually know, especially being a kid, would make you more adversive to war than seeing random dead people. Basically, using Kishi logic, every kid who lost a mother/brother/father/uncle/whatever during the war should have have more reason to do what Itachi did than Itachi.

Thats all we see. Itachi just walks into the woods and a wild supposedly dead super criminal appeared!

Because there was absolutely nothing to indicate so? Because its stupid for even a genius to sit around and suddenly one day, out of the blue think "That guy who founded our clan, and who died fighting the first….I think he might be alive! Based on nothing at all!"
Madara was doing NOTHING at that point. A guy with a funky mask sitting on treestumps should not send out rumors that Madara lives, in which cases he's really shitting at lying low, considering you know, that Konoha might kill him if they knew he was alive.

They are only so because Kishi is a terrible writer. But really, in a village of NINJA you see no alternative but to seek out a mythical super criminal who might not even be alive in order to take on a COVERT OPERATION? In a ninja village?

You don't get anything I say do you. He was "Betrayed" by their ANCESTORS, who didn't want to listen to him anymore. The current Uchiha clan were following in his footsteps, doing as he wanted, rebellion against the leaf and everything.
Madara: Hey guys, listen to me!
Old Uchiha: Fuck off old man

New Uchiha: We shall carry out Madaras will! Overthrow Senju, just like he wanted! Oh look, theres our hero right now!
Madara: DIEEEEEE! REEEEEVEEEEENGE!!!!

That could not have been known at the time. Also, the loss of the Uchiha not having any effect undermines their strenght completely, and makes it laughable to think they could have pulled off a coup by force, so its dumb either way. Unless of course they were trying to use illusions and trickery to take over without razing Konoha to the ground, but thats just silly isn't it.

The 3rd WANTED to use diplomacy. Its not like the Uchiha knew their uprising had been leaked, so they would propably have been pretty surprised at "peace talks" when it wasn't even supposed to be known they were angry.
But you're missing the point. Why stop the clan, why not join them and make the coup succesful? (Civil war does not = succesful coup, btw)

But they were friggin traitors. Itachi could get them all the proof they neeeded, and they sure as hell wouldn't be highly regarded after that. They were like a traitorous terrorist cell within a nation, destroyed by a double agent before they could fulfill their plot to destroy the nation. No way the public would go "he might have saved us all, but Double Agent did it by selling out his terrorist allies! What a total prick!"

What. That was Old!Itachi, New!Itachi wanted Sasuke to become the hero of the leaf, they guy who took down evil nasty Itachi. Good luck with that if you kill the fourth hokages son.

You're just accepting Kishis bullshit at face value are you. And the point of that message was? "I'm still here?" The hells the point of saying that? And it's not like they wouldn't know he was still around considering he's a WORLD CLASS CRIMINAL going around capturing Tailed fucking beasts!
And Again. itachi LOVED the village. He loved peace. He had nothing against non-Uchihas. He adopted the role of a villain for stupid reasons, but its not like he had to fight others to maintain that reputation. He could have just left without harming any of them, and he would still be known as world class criminal Itachi.
There was no reason to injure and torture people, no reason to send a clone after Gai, and no reason to seek out Naruto if he wasn't evil.

"there was nothing he could do against Madara", what the hell, he never tried. There was a whole big speech about only sharingan users being able to fight sharingan users, Itachi could have at least tried to Ameterasu Madara himself while he was faking his Tobi persona.
But you keep fucking forgetting that Itachi made his life hell TO SAVE KONOHA. To bring peace. He was a goddamn pacifist. Joining the bad guys as a double agent is all bad and good, but when you don't fucking sabotage them like a double agent is supposed to do, then you're effectively helping spreading war and death.
Which clashes horrible with New!Itachi.

That was as quick as possible? It's fine Daz you can have the last word here. You might see me as some kind of stubborn fanboy who accepts everything at face value, and I may see you as a stubborn dude with nothing better to do than nitpick the shit out of everything, even when shown that hey 'This thing has an explanation'. The only qualm is that you just don't like that explanation!

Either way I'm guessing there's more to you than that which I will keep an open eye out for.

[Kareem Said]

Random Guy: Hey you want to go to the Naruto thread on Arlong Park
Me: NO! It is horrible, there is a huge debate as to whether Itachi being a good guy made sense and whether or not the Naruto manga is sexist!
Guy: But didn't we already decide that that twist was horrible and Naruto is a pretty damn sexist series.
Me: Exactly, yet people still debate it.
Guy: Well isn't the whole point of a forum to debate.
Me: Yeah I guess but its been going on for several pages and this is stuff we've already decided on, I thought.
Guy: Yeah well there was no new Naruto chap this week so it's good to have a discussion of some sort.
Me: Alright fine go, but be prepared to read a LOT of text.

But anyways RPGJay said Tsugumi Ohba, mangaka of Death Note and Bakuman is way worse than Kishi in his treatment of women. I only watched a third of Death Note (working on that) but I didn't think Bakuman's treatment of women was that bad. Maybe it's just me but what makes his treatment of women so bad. I guess in Bakuman Azuki, Miyoshi, Iwase and even to some extent Aoki are pretty much defined by the men in their life. Same for Misa in Death Note.

To be honest, women being defined only by the men in their life is pretty damn common in Japanese media. And American media for that matter. Most writers and directors are men, and for a good number of these men women are supporters, temptations, prizes and various other things, but rarely characters in their own right. I'm not saying men can't write interesting women who aren't defined by men but you don't see it very often. And for that matter, a women who is defined mainly or solely by men isn't, necessarily, a bad character but I digress because that's not what this is about.
However, there are so many women in Naruto and almost none of them have any character outside of the men around them. That makes the treatment of women in Naruto even worse because there's so little diversity with so many women.

[sanji499]

Even that useless Konan managed to hurt the Madara troll. I can really blame Itachi for not trying.

As a big Itachi fan, I always thought that the evil and cold Itachi was his best incarnation. After such a badass entrance, I just could not picture him as a tragic hero. I think Kishi pulled this thing out of his ass after playing Metal gear solid 3. It is so obvious.

I would not have minded the whole tragic stuff if it was very near the end of the series and that would cause Naruto vs Sasuke directly. It was stupid from Kishi to kill off in midstory one of his most popular villain and most expected fight (which turned out shit but gold among the loads of shit we are getting at the moment). You keep the best for the last.

HEAR ME GODA ! Don't f**** kill Mihawk before Shiriyu after hyping the fight for OVER A FREAKING DECADE! DO NOT DO IT !**

[youngjustice20]

@Kareem Who is we?? LOL You got owned by outspec and can't respond even when you said u would. The twist was hinted at just has much has Luffy not being Ace blood brother. Kareem do you concede to outspec post? Nobody decided the twist was horrible. Who is these "We" people you bring up? Itachi being a good guy was clearly forshadowed.
@Outspec The Daz has no comeback other then u believe Kishi shit. He doesn't really want a explanation. He just mad you so effortlessly found scans to prove your point.

[Kareem Said]

@youngjustice20:

@Kareem Who is we?? LOL You got owned by outspec and can't respond even when you said u would. The twist was hinted at just has much has Luffy not being Ace blood brother. Kareem do you concede to outspec post? Nobody decided the twist was horrible. Who is these "We" people you bring up? Itachi being a good guy was clearly forshadowed.
@Outspec The Daz has no comeback other then u believe Kishi shit. He doesn't really want a explanation. He just mad you so effortlessly found scans to prove your point.

Alright I can't believe I have to ask this but everyone who thought Madara in the cave was a load of shit, raise your hand.
I also remember Y Ruler of Time, a reviewer on That Guy with the Glasses who I'm rather fond of and who you guys should check out, saying (joking obviously) that when he first read Itachi being a good guy the rage he felt was so potent it summoned a demon that killed his roommate. He was joking about the demon part, not the rage.

[Davy Jones]

This thread done gone insane.

[youngjustice20]

@Kareem The argument wasn't about if people liked the twist or not. Everyone doesn't like everything. People have different opinion. This is irrelevant because you claimed Kishi didn't forshadow Itachi being good in which Outspec totally proved you wrong. Go answer his post and stop trying to deflect the attention else where.U said Kishi didn't forshadow crap. Its funny how you can respond to every other post directed at you, but skip the one that destroys u. LMAO

[Outerspec]

No, I'm done with this argument over whether or not Kishi planned Itachi's "redemption". Whether it was "stupid" or not is not something I care to argue about and was never the subject of my posts.

People are free to reply to my older posts but don't expect me to make those long ass posts again. Not on this matter at least.

–-------------------------------------------------------------------

When the Shinobi Alliance starts to lose ground in this war I believe it'll become more interesting. As of now the war is far too one-sided. There's no suspension or uncertainty because you just know the "good guys" are going to win. Once Kishi grows some balls and starts putting real pressure on the Shinobi Alliance I'll be more invested in the current war.

[sanji499]

Let's make it clear

q_h9UnsDelQ&feature=fvwrel

MGS3 released:November 17 2004

I just could not lie to myself.

[Daz]

@Outerspec:

That was as quick as possible? It's fine Daz you can have the last word here. You might see me as some kind of stubborn fanboy who accepts everything at face value, and I may see you as a stubborn dude with nothing better to do than nitpick the shit out of everything, even when shown that hey 'This thing has an explanation'. The only qualm is that you just don't like that explanation!

This shows that you've never gotten what I've been trying to say, not just here, but in all our previous debates. Whether I like explanations or not is immaterial. I'm not a big haki fan, but it explains a lot, makes sense, and doesn't create any plotholes so far. It is a good explanation for a lot of stuff in the series.
The reason you and I keep clashing is that I question explanations. Sometimes they don't hold up, they go against characters and rational thought, ignore precedence, create plotholes etc, and I call them out on that, like with Itachi.
And thats the reason you and I keep getting into these long winded debates.

Me: That doesn't make sense
You: But it was explained, so it must make sense
Me: But the explanation doesn't make sense
You: reiterates explanation, adds speculation
Me: But speculation is useless, and still doesn't adress half my arguments against the explanation
etc.

@Outerspec:

Either way I'm guessing there's more to you than that which I will keep an open eye out for.

Actually, deeply rational and analytical attitude (I.e. "nitpicky", questioning things) is a core element of my character, so you may be dissapointed.

[HaxeyeMihawk]

Ok, I'm just seeing Juju's sig and I have to say that that is fucking hilarious. Carry on.

[youngjustice20]

@Hawkeye LMFAO Robby is a funny guy. S
@Sanji Failed Itachi Flashback started in june of 04.http://www.naruto2.com/Information/Naruto-ChapterReleaseDates3.aspx GTFO Don't bring the MGS3(One of my favs ever) in this. The concepts of double agent wasn't made by Kishi or by the great Hideo Kojima.

[Outerspec]

@sanji499:

Let's make it clear

q_h9UnsDelQ&feature=fvwrel

MGS3 released:November 17 2004

I just could not lie to myself.

LOL!!! I should have posted this from the very beginning.

@The:

This shows that you've never gotten what I've been trying to say, not just here, but in all our previous debates. Whether I like explanations or not is immaterial. I'm not a big haki fan, but it explains a lot, makes sense, and doesn't create any plotholes so far. It is a good explanation for a lot of stuff in the series.
The reason you and I keep clashing is that I question explanations. Sometimes they don't hold up, they go against characters and rational thought, ignore precedence, create plotholes etc, and I call them out on that, like with Itachi.
And thats the reason you and I keep getting into these long winded debates.

Me: That doesn't make sense
You: But it was explained, so it must make sense
Me: But the explanation doesn't make sense
You: reiterates explanation, adds speculation
Me: But speculation is useless, and still doesn't adress half my arguments against the explanation
etc.

It'd be jaded to say you didn't get anything I told you either and finding all those scans to back my words was a waste of my time but it's ok. But what's in bold is a problem. You believe I accept any explanation given to me. That's just not true. An explanation only makes sense to me when it actually makes sense. Believe me, I will question when something doesn't add up. But I realize what makes sense to one person may or just will not makes sense to another person. They just can't accept it.

The reason why I keep putting Itachi's "redemption" in quotes is because I don't think he was redeemed at all. Not in my eyes at least. The guy is an asshole who purposefully led his brother down a path of vengence and hate. Do I believe he was redeemed because of the explanation given? No. But others believe he was redeemed and is the best big brother eveeerrrr! Doesn't make sense to me.

Actually, deeply rational and analytical attitude (I.e. "nitpicky", questioning things) is a core element of my character, so you may be dissapointed.

That's fine but it seems to me personal bias also affects your judgement in how far you pick certain mangas apart, but I don't know you as well I I might think so I can be wrong as hell.

But you know what, it doesn't matter. This is way off topic.

[HaxeyeMihawk]

@sanji499:

Let's make it clear

q_h9UnsDelQ&feature=fvwrel

MGS3 released:November 17 2004

I just could not lie to myself.

This pretty much^

My money has always been that Kishi decided to make Itachi a "good character" after playing MGS3, now I can't pinpoint an exact year when he may have made this decision but I definitely don't think that the decision was made from the outset nor do I think it was made during the actual Sasuke-Itachi fight.

[sanji499]

Its crystal clear that the whole Zombie war thing was made on the spot as well.
When he saw that in One Piece the lineup was freaking appealing: the admirals, the schibukai, Garp and sengoku, the Vice Admirals against the Wb pirates, Luffy and the escapees from Impel down including crocodile and Jinbei.

On the other series, you have an emo prick, plants that we don't know or care about, freaking tailed beasts we don't know either, a generic mask guy (Tobi was better). Your most popular villains are already dead. You feel stupid.

[RPGJay]

@Kareem:

But anyways RPGJay said Tsugumi Ohba, mangaka of Death Note and Bakuman is way worse than Kishi in his treatment of women. I only watched a third of Death Note (working on that) but I didn't think Bakuman's treatment of women was that bad. Maybe it's just me but what makes his treatment of women so bad. I guess in Bakuman Azuki, Miyoshi, Iwase and even to some extent Aoki are pretty much defined by the men in their life. Same for Misa in Death Note.

To be honest, women being defined only by the men in their life is pretty damn common in Japanese media. And American media for that matter. Most writers and directors are men, and for a good number of these men women are supporters, temptations, prizes and various other things, but rarely characters in their own right. I'm not saying men can't write interesting women who aren't defined by men but you don't see it very often. And for that matter, a women who is defined mainly or solely by men isn't, necessarily, a bad character but I digress because that's not what this is about.
However, there are so many women in Naruto and almost none of them have any character outside of the men around them. That makes the treatment of women in Naruto even worse because there's so little diversity with so many women.

While I'm still writing my retort to Juju's "points", I figured I could stop for a few minutes to address this.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Bakuman is slightly better about their women than Death Note ever was. I mean Aoki has an honest to God personality and character. Not to mention certain developments have actually fleshed out her character even more.

That said I honestly think Obha has something against women. He's not like Kishimoto or Toriyama who just don't know any better. I think Obha has some sort of contempt for women in general really.

Well back to writing a big ol' block of text.

[TLC]

Bakuman treats women like shit.

Azuki is nothing but a prize barbie doll with all the personality of one.

Kaya who was once so kickass has turned into a submissive house-wife.

Aoki has a phobia of men which I personally find degrading not to mention she's no where near as assertive or passionate as she once was.

Iwase, the only woman with ANY decent balls is also a manipulative bitch.

Not good at all.

[RPGJay]

For those of you just joining us at home, let me bring you up to speed. Juju here thinks the Naruto series is not sexist in the slightest. And everytime he brings up a point I already refuted I counter him with this:

! @youngjustice20:
! > @RPG He told her to live another day because she was going to be killed.
!
Well what a surprise, you lack reading comprehension!
@RPGJay:
! > If that was the case, why didn't he just tell her to stand down? If anything, you're proving more and more how absolutely unnecessary it was to mention "YOURAWOMAN GO MAKE ME A GRANBABY".

There is a significant difference between "stand down this is out of all of your leagues" and "you are a woman live long enough to make a grandchild".

Goddammit you haven't been listening to a single damn thing I've said have you?
! @youngjustice20:
! > I have listened to everything you said.
! No you haven't Juju. No you haven't. Your entire motif for these Naruto threads it seems is to absolutely not listen to anything anyone says. You have learned nothing.
! And honestly Juju I don't know if I can particularly blame you for it because I have my doubts as to whether or not you're even human.
! You're like an alien that was taught English (though not very well from the looks of it) but was never taught Earth customs. You seem to have a sort of shorthand version of how humans act but you don't have a clue on how humans are supposed to act.
! You have no frame of reference on what human beings are actually like.
! @youngjustice20:
! > Just because you claim i can't use being a Kage has a reason doesn't stop me from feeling different.
! See? This is what I'm talking about. I, Robby, and a few others are bringing up actual sexist things from this manga (i.e. FACTS) and you're telling us how you FEEL about something. Granted you don't need a functioning brainstem to know Naruto is hilariously sexist.
! Did your subterrain overlords teach you how an earth-primate is supposed to debate you extra-terrestrial?
! @youngjustice20:
! > I am not saying just because they are Kages make them a good representation of Women.
!
Except for the fact that was exactly what you were implying:
@youngjustice20:
! > RPGjay Explain to me how a hater of women makes them leader of a whole villages?
! @youngjustice20:
! > I just named serveral things. She became a Kage,
! You were literally implying that. Well at least I pointed this out to you again so now you won't say that agai-
! @youngjustice20:
! > I said that to to strengthen my point about Kishi being a sexist. My point is why would he bother putting Women at such a high status if he he sexist?
! How do you contradict yourself within the same paragraph? HOW DO YOU DO THAT? :blink:
! …
! I hate repeating myself. Repeat after me. Just because there are female leaders does not mean they are good representations of women.
! Do you even realize what kind of dumb logical fallacy you got going on here? It's like if I said there were no racists in America because we have a black president or there are no homophobes in my town because we have a gay mayor.
! @youngjustice20:
! > When they were considering Tsaunde for Hokage. I didn't hear anything about her being a women. All you heard was legendary sennin.
! Which is clearly why Jiraiya was the first candidate for the next hokage.
! Well that and for some reason being the 1st's granddaughter changes things.
! @youngjustice20:
! > Yea they did turn out well. LOL
! The ninja world was on the collapse of world war with eachother and now they actually ARE at war.
! BIG TIME ROUSING SUCCESS GENTLEMEN.
! @youngjustice20:
! > She kicked Sasuke ass and Zetsu saved him.
! So you admit then that she just inconvenienced Sasuke until Zetsu showed up. Doesn't sound that significant now does it?
! Oh yeah and like I said previously she still has no dream or anything. Why it's almost as if she was bland and uninteresting?
! @youngjustice20:
! > She is protection the FL right know and tricked Zetsu with her plan. http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-526-page-6.html She hasn't fought yet through, but plenty of characters haven't fought yet.
! The very next page shows that Zetsu was just mildly inconvenienced and he'll find them soon: http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-526-page-7.html
! @youngjustice20:
! > She doesn't follow them. They were a team. She disrespects them all the time and When Jman stayed to train pein she left. They all did wat they wanted. Show me a scan of them bossing her around.
! The post you were responding to wasn't about bossing her around, it was being defined by the men around her. And she totally is. This is indisputable.
! Despite being defined as part of the friggin Senin and a political leader, as stated previously, she is pretty much useless in most situations now.
! What a great and well defined character.
! @youngjustice20:
! > No the scene clearly shows Shikiamaru sexist ways getting stomp to hell. Got beat by a girl, saved by a girl who got the Order from a girl. 3 girls just proved him wrong in that scene
! And out of those women we have a protagonist who is defined entirely by a man, a near useless leader who is defined entirely by men, and a bland antagonist who is defined entirely by a man.
! Y'know Juju I'm already doing a good job debating. You really don't need to prove my points for me.

[Silence]

Jesus Jay

Have mercy.

[RPGJay]

This is pretty much the reason I don't try to post argumentive posts anymore. I eviscerate posts step by step. I tend to go a bit overboard.

I'm almost sure the last time I did something like this was about sexism too. Huh.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Silence:

Jesus Jay

Have mercy.

I disagree. The way he's been going on recently about how he thinks he's "owning" everyone and he's such a good debater, he needs a little kick in the ass to remind him he is AP's pet narutard-monkey and Robby will kick his ass back into the Tartarian pit from which he came from if need be.

[Luxor]

Whoa whoa, mi amigo let's cool it down a bit. He wasn't talking to you, so why get excited?

[Badass SnoCone]

@RPGJay:

For those of you just joining us at home, let me bring you up to speed. Juju here thinks the Naruto series is not sexist in the slightest. And everytime he brings up a point I already refuted I counter him with this:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1073/jujuk.jpg

Well, now I'm caught up.

[Outerspec]

@S.C.:

I disagree. The way he's been going on recently about how he thinks he's "owning" everyone and he's such a good debater, he needs a little kick in the ass to remind him he is AP's pet narutard-monkey and Robby will kick his ass back into the Tartarian pit from which he came from if need be.

A little much Amigo? Juju is already getting ganged up on enough as it is. Even if you think Juju is full of it there's no point in stooping down to the level of degenerate name calling.

–----------------------

Anyway, I remember somebody asked where the Uchiha were during the night of the Kyubi attack. I don't know but it's suspicious.

[Robby]

But Juju IS a narutard monkey.

That's the only reason we let him stay. As a pet.

He's already been banned three times before.

[StrawHatRican]

juju is back?

And the Naruto thread has debates again?

/subscribe

[Silence]

@RPGJay:

This is pretty much the reason I don't try to post argumentive posts anymore. I eviscerate posts step by step. I tend to go a bit overboard.

I'm almost sure the last time I did something like this was about sexism too. Huh.

Remind me not to get on your bad side, damn.

[choperman]

We seriously should have a thread that talks about sexism for all mangas, so you can debate this topic that reaches out so many mangas, not just keep it here at the Naruto section

plus I think we've seen this topic a thousand times here, really the only debate in Naruto I'm getting tired of seeing

[Hisoga]

@Outerspec:

A little much Amigo? Juju is already getting ganged up on enough as it is. Even if you think Juju is full of it there's no point in stooping down to the level of degenerate name calling.

–----------------------

Anyway, I remember somebody asked where the Uchiha were during the night of the Kyubi attack. I don't know but it's suspicious.

what about kishi forgot about them? he even forget that attack bring a devastation and nightmare to the konoha but if you look at the flashback, there is nothing like that. and "madara knows my every move too" said yondaime too.

[ArSoNiSt JoE]

@Outerspec:

A little much Amigo? Juju is already getting ganged up on enough as it is. Even if you think Juju is full of it there's no point in stooping down to the level of degenerate name calling.

–----------------------

Anyway, I remember somebody asked where the Uchiha were during the night of the Kyubi attack. I don't know but it's suspicious.

I see what you mean. I too have asked that question. I mean, we even get a snapshot of most of the other clans standing alongside the 3rd Hokage when they were trying to take down the fox, but no Uchiha's were shown.

TO me, I think that they were missing…it would probably explain why the Elders were so quick to isolate them when the kyubi attacked. I mean it wouldn't make any sense for the Elders to quarantine the Uchihas when they actually helped during the attack...that wouldn't make any sense.

[Aaronrules380]

When did that happen?

[ArSoNiSt JoE]

@Aaronrules380:

When did that happen?

Booyah

!

Right there, we see the Akimihchi, Yamanaka, Aburame and a couple other clans, but no Uchiha. If you read that entire flash back, the only Uchiha seen was Itachi and baby Sasuke, but they were in Konoha.

That's the thing though, why would their parents leave them though, where were they? I find it suspicous that the Uchiha, one of the two clans that formed Konoha, with all of their prestige and whatnot, didn't get any spotlight or were even visible like the other clans. At least a close up on one or two of the Uchiha's (Showing the Sharingan) would have sufficed, but no such exposure was given.

I think that they were up to something…either that or the elders took their abscence as some kind of indication that they had something to do with the attack..

The more I think about this, the more puzzling it gets....if the Uchiha helped, why were the Elders even more hostile towards them because of the attack? If the Uchiha didn't help, where were they? The kyubi wold have destroyed Konoha..including them, so why didn't they help out?

[Aaronrules380]

Again, when did it happen? As in, what chapter did that come from?

[ArSoNiSt JoE]

@Aaronrules380:

Again, when did it happen? As in, what chapter did that come from?

Oh sorry…It happened in Chapter 503