When will the new chapter come?
Chapter 386 "Unprecedented" Discussion
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or maybe they had some technical problems.. Like with that page where usopps get his googles..
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Technical problems? I thought Oda just said they ran out of time and space.
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or maybe they had some technical problems.. Like with that page where usopps get his googles..
It wasn't a technical problem. Oda couldn't exceed the standard size of a chapter, which is nineteen pages (jeez, I've a theme week going on), so he had to left that scene out.
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I dunno…it is odd. And it's not like he composed that map himself either. 15 pages just out there is kinda weird.
But the scenes in the comic were, I dunno, maybe kinda poking fun at all the enemies he's introduced. I mean, just because we expect a name intro doesn't mean there will definitely be one ^o^
Besides....there's what? 10 of those guys left? I dunno, 10 of 'em together might make an amusing battle with, ooooh I dunno.....say maybe a pair of rampaging giants? ^o^ They'll get their moment eventually.
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I have to agree…. One Piece is still a shounen series. They get stronger and face increasingly powerful enemies. That's how it goes. I don't think it needs to be stated that they're growing more powerful and such, that should really be a given.
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They could still get one.
It´s not about the box itself. It´s about the proper time to show it. The impact of revealing the characters is completely gone since we´ve already seen the desing of one of them. And unless the others don´t look somewhat different the introduction impact is gone even if a box will be included.
Yeah, but that's assuming the enemies wouldn't do anything meanwhile. Even if they're a little dumb, taking a loss from Luffy should make someone like Krieg stronger as a fighter. I'd say the chance of him having an anti-Luffy plan is pretty high.
True that but in One Piece much as in most other Shonen series it is all about having the mental strenght to surpass your weaknesses and grow stronger and that actually just suits the heroes. That´s what makes them so great. If the villains would be also described with such strong spirits then what you say would work. But apparently except for the Blackbeard Pirates there doesn´t seem to be much villains who put their heart and soul into working on themselves.
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I think what makes one piece great is the fact that they never really get any more powerful, except maybe Zoro. Luffy and most of the crew have been the same since they first arrived on the crew. Experience maybe, but not power. I think somebody said Usopp at this point could beat Kuro. I don't think so. I still think Arlong, and Buggy, and Kuro could do well in the Grand Line. If they were in the Grand Line, I also think they would have bigger bounties, because the government places bigger bounties on pirates in the Grand Line, and ignore the other four oceans to a certain extent. My point being is that there really is no ascend to the next power thing in One Piece, it's a bunch of people with different skills, using their techniques to overcome and/or outsmart their opponents. I think Oda is introducing us to the overpowering Cp9, is to show the extent to which each crew members utmost power is.
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Well, Oda is very subtle with the Straw Hats growing stronger. They grow stronger in a realistic, natural way. Look at it this way - you lift weights, gradually your muscles build up. Eventually you can start lifting heavier weights.
Now compare this to Luffy. He fights an enemy, gains some experience to sharpen his skills and such, so he gets a little stronger. It's not measured in levels or anything like that, but if you get better trained, with more knowledge of your weaknesses and strengths as well as refining your techniques, you'll grow stronger. Same goes for the rest of the crew.
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I have to disagree here. While there certainly is not such a thing as DBZ power ups the Strawhats get stronger with each fight and would now easily deal with their first opponents if they didn´t have any training.
Meh, I think that they get more experienced and develop new techniques, but I'm not really seeing them get actively stronger as time goes by, at least not in the same sense that most people do.
Mentally stronger? Certainly, especially Usopp.
Physically? Not so much.What proof there is that the Straw Hats are actively getting stronger (with the admitted, but qualified, exception of Zoro) outside of manga convention? That they keep winning? That doesn't really prove much except that they keep trying. How many second encounters have they had with people that they fought earlier?
Here's the incidents that I can think of:
Buggy/Alvida versus Luffy. Result? Luffy would have died if not for an unbelievable stroke of luck.
Luffy versus Wapol. Result? Luffy actually has more trouble with him this time around simply of Wapol's attention is focused on him.
Luffy versus Smoker. Result? Luffy ran away because he couldn't win.
Water Luffy versus Crocodile. Result? Luffy loses and would have died if Crocodile hadn't been too busy to stick around.
Luffy versus Crocodile in the tomb. Result? Luffy wins, but only because Crocodile stabbed him. Without that wound and the resulting blood, it's hard to imagine that the outcome would have been any different from the first two times.Really, when have we ever once seen any of the Straw Hats train outside of Zoro? Even then, Zoro's biggest achievement came as much from a mental realization as to the nature of swordsmanship as it did from all of his training. Strength is ultimately irrelevant in comparison to how the sword is wielded. You could give a man the strongest sword in the world, but without the knowledge to use it he's not a swordsman. He's just a guy holding what is essentially an iron bar.
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What proof there is that the Straw Hats are actively getting stronger (with the admitted, but qualified, exception of Zoro) outside of manga convention? That they keep winning? That doesn't really prove much except that they keep trying. How many second encounters have they had with people that they fought earlier?
I don´t need manga proof for it I just take a look at the real world and that´s enough. Take for instance a young talented boxer that has been training for ten years and then has his first fight with 17. Even if he wins he will be a green horn not only in terms of mental experience but also because of physical epxerience. It is one thing to hit a punching bag but another thing is to throw a punch towards a strong opponent. And with each fight the boxer has he grows stronger on that.
Actually this is completely a mental development. But with the development of the mind the physic behaviour in a fight grows too. Not in a DBZ power up style but to a certain degree the punches get stronger for a boxer, as kicks to stronger for a kickboxer etc.
It just is like that. If it wouldn´t be like that that athletes grow with time then sports would be completely boring. And same counts to One Piece. They do grow stronger. But it has to be seen as a total package of mental and physic growth combined with their young age.
I guess the problem in this entire strenght debate is that most of us still have that DBZ power up system when they think of getting stronger.
And if you want examples of how they got stronger I´ll give you two. Just think how Luffy owned Bellamy. It was one single punch that literally left an impression at him. We can now talk to death who´s stronger Bellamy or Arlong but by my book that would be actually a silly discussion and I`m sure that the point of the one-hit-ownage was to prove how much stronger Luffy has grown.
The other example is the sole fact that they went to Skypiea. Remember how Viper owned Luffy, Zoro and Sanji because they didn´t get used to the thin air there. But once they got used to it, they were strong up there as they were down in the blue sea. This leaves to the fair question, how much stronger are they now when they return to the blue sea and breath their normal air again? I seriously doubt that there was no growth in strenght here.
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I never thought about it that way, Ivotas. I always just laughed at Bellamy because he wasn't that weak, just did a dumb move. But yeah, Arlong actually did the same charge and got Luffy a few times. Maybe there was something to that.
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They've all gotten stronger and are able to handle situations they could never handle before…
If you don't believe me, Zoro comes out and says it... Why did he say it? Probably because the power increase has been subtle enough that it NEEDS to be pointed out as such.
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It just is like that. If it wouldn´t be like that that athletes grow with time then sports would be completely boring.
The problem I have with the sports analogy is this:
The entire concept of sports is not to grow stronger with each event, but to already have the necessary strength and skills when you go in. Boxing, for instance, the ideal situation there is that you beat your opponent as quickly as possible. To do this, you spar with somebody else, you hit the punching bag, you lift weights, and what-not. That's the whole point of spring training baseball, preseason football, training camps, batting practice, and so on and so on.
They do grow stronger. But it has to be seen as a total package of mental and physic growth combined with their young age.
See, my stance is that the major growth in these characters has been mentally and that they were already granted the physical tools that they needed early on. They may change equipment or learn new techniques.
Again, Zoro is the only one of them that's really been doing the necessary training to get physically stronger.
And if you want examples of how they got stronger I´ll give you two. Just think how Luffy owned Bellamy. It was one single punch that literally left an impression at him.
No real surprise there; Luffy's punches tend to do a lot of damage to anybody. Quite a few of his fights have ended the moment that he got a single really good hit in on them.
Bellamy had the poor luck of having his head between Luffy's fist and the ground when Luffy hit him, which meant that his face had to absorb all of the physical impact. Had he been standing upright when Luffy hit him, he probably would have been sent flying and the punch probably would not have done as much damage to him as a result.
I`m sure that the point of the one-hit-ownage was to prove how much stronger Luffy has grown.
I think the general idea was more:
Luffy is a total badass, don't piss him off by hurting his friends, and Bellamy was really a stupid punk.This leaves to the fair question, how much stronger are they now when they return to the blue sea and breath their normal air again?
Why would they be stronger just because of that? Their bodies just acclimated to the rarefied air.
But yeah, Arlong actually did the same charge and got Luffy a few times. Maybe there was something to that.
Arlong didn't bounce around like an idiot for minutes on end though either. After fighting somebody that comes out of nowhere, nailing an idiot that bounces all over the place like Bellamy is easy by comparison.
Again though, that's more of an experience thing than a sign of physical growth.
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The problem I have with the sports analogy is this:
The entire concept of sports is not to grow stronger with each event, but to already have the necessary strength and skills when you go in. Boxing, for instance, the ideal situation there is that you beat your opponent as quickly as possible. To do this, you spar with somebody else, you hit the punching bag, you lift weights, and what-not. That's the whole point of spring training baseball, preseason football, training camps, batting practice, and so on and so on.
But it is still like that that you grow stronger by fighting real opponents then when you just spar, work out in the gym and do whatsoever. You don´t have to believe me. Ask someone who does any kind of martial arts, he´ll tell you that the more real opponents you face the more you learn the proper focus of mind which leads to a more efficient usage of your skills (strenght, stamina, speed etc.) in combat. In a real fight you grow much more then you do with just training. If you don´t believe me ask somebody who does that regularly. They´ll tell you the same thing.
See, my stance is that the major growth in these characters has been mentally and that they were already granted the physical tools that they needed early on. They may change equipment or learn new techniques.
Of course it is mentally. But the mentality incluences your focus on when you punch somebody. The more people you´ve punched in a real fight the better you get at it which lead that your punces are more intense then before. Just look at the fight between Luffy and Crocodile. Even in the manga he was much more intense when he finished him off then in any fight before. The intensity determines the strenght level.
Again, Zoro is the only one of them that's really been doing the necessary training to get physically stronger.
This statement makes me think that you completely misunderstand what I´m trying to say. Of course you are right with this kind of physical strenght. I never questioned that. When I say that´ve got stronger then it is as I´ve described above. They get stronger mentally and in the serious fight that boost up their intensity. And yes that makes them stronger then before in that moment.
No real surprise there; Luffy's punches tend to do a lot of damage to anybody. Quite a few of his fights have ended the moment that he got a single really good hit in on them.
Bellamy had the poor luck of having his head between Luffy's fist and the ground when Luffy hit him, which meant that his face had to absorb all of the physical impact. Had he been standing upright when Luffy hit him, he probably would have been sent flying and the punch probably would not have done as much damage to him as a result.
Do you really think that Oda wrote the scene like that just that people could say that Bellamy had the poor luck of having his head between Luffy´s fist and the ground, only to keep a vagueness in strenght level between Arlong and Bellamy. Well you´re free to think so. Personally I think that Oda just wanted to show that Luffy has gotten stronger then he was in the introduction arcs.
I mean think of it. Luffy is 17 years old and never faced a real enemy until he left his village. Buggy, Kuro, Krieg and Arlong were his first opponents he met while he was trying to get into the whole pirate thing. Do you really think that a 17 old boy didn´t grow stronger between the time where he had his first real combat experiences and the time where he became a pirate that even the highest authority in the world considers as dangerous?
Well I don´t think so. It wouldn´t work like that in the real world and it has zero chance to work like that in a fictive world where strenght levels are dozen times superior to the real world.Why would they be stronger just because of that? Their bodies just acclimated to the rarefied air.
That is actually pretty simple. They adapted to move normally under hard conditions for them. This is some sort of physical training. It just like when I´m jogging around with weights on my legs and arms. When I put them aside jogging is much easier for me. Try it, you´ll see the difference shortly.
I came to think that you and I have two different definitions of strenght here. You seem to be talking of raw physical strengh that can be determined by how many kilo´s a person can lift while I´m talking about combat strenght that composes of mentality, experience, technique, speed, stamina and strenght. As I said, combat strenght is a combination of those things. And by my book it grows whith each fight. And the physical strenght grows too (since fight count as workout for muscles too) but not that immensely as the combat strenght.
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my opinion is that while they havent become physicly stronger they have become better fighters thru all the battles theyve fought,
but does this mean that now they could beat the old east blue villans without even trying ?
in my opinion definetly no they would still pose a large threat since the SH havent gone up on an entirely new level of power like in DBZ and elevated themselves above the earlier foes,
they are in my opinion on the same physical power level they have always been but they have a stronger will, a much improved fighting technique and a buttload of Experience that makes them better fighters,so for instance if luffy and arlong duked it out now he would still give luffy a run for his money and the same goes for all the rest.
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In DBZ a person becomes stronger every time they defeat an villian, but they are like that because they are not figthing old enemies again.
If Arlong shows up and fights Luffy now, I'm sure Luffy will still fight him in the same amount of time.
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They get stronger mentally and in the serious fight that boost up their intensity. And yes that makes them stronger then before in that moment.
Yeah exactly.. when you do something you don't have much experience with, everything kinda comes at you at once, and there's no way you can be focused or confident enough to do it as good as you potentially can. After a while though, your mind and body get accustomed to this new experience (in this case, the serious fights).. a lot of things that you first had to focus on, now happen automatically. Your confidence grows, you can focus on the important matters.
Kinda like when you first learn to drive a car. Everything comes at you at once and needs your attention: the steering wheel, the gears, the pedals, the road, other cars, road signs, etc. But after a while it all becomes automatic. You don't even think about shifting gears anymore.. and you can conduct a conversation perfectly fine while subconsciously doing all the things that at first required all your conscious attention.
Then there's also the difference between doing something in training and doing it seriously. (which applies here since the straw-hats are getting quite some "life and death" fights, or atleast fights that matter a lot who wins) I see it a lot in kicker (table football) which I play competition in. This year we had some new players and, as expected, the first few matches they played horribly below their normal level.. suddenly it's all official, your results will be noted down, your team can win and lose, you have to perform now.. but they're growing rapidly and already doing a lot better. But when I make the teams each week, I make sure the team that has to play the last match is one with experienced people, because if it is a decisive match, I don't want the newcomers to underperform because of the added pressure.
So yeah.. there's no doubt Luffy and co are growing stronger and stronger. Not in the DB way, but in the normal way. It may not be apparent since there is no 'power meter' but it's definately happening.
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On top of all that it should be mentioned that bodies of teenagers still develop so growth in strenght happen even if they don´t work out. But if the workout gets added then the natural growth of physical strenght grows exponentially. That´s how they even get stronger physically but this is just one part of the "total package". Alone by itself it isn´t that much of a growth.
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@joekido:
In DBZ a person becomes stronger every time they defeat an villian, but they are like that because they are not figthing old enemies again.
If Arlong shows up and fights Luffy now, I'm sure Luffy will still fight him in the same amount of time.
DBGT saga no 17 twins, gohan killed furiza in one hit, with no super saiyajin form
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I went to Stephen's site to read the ch 386 and re-read the scripts from some of the earlier chapters but it is down. It has been down for a few days now - does anyone know if it is gone for good?
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Um, stephen's site works fine for me.
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@Battle:
Um, stephen's site works fine for me.
I'm getting a "This domain name expired on 10/13/2005 and is pending renewal or deletion." on this link http://stephen.swoo.net/onepiece/onepiece.html
Would you mind posting a hyperlink to the site please - in case it has been updated/moved or something
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@Battle:
No problem.
Many thanks from a very relieved Vilia. I feel happier just knowing it is out there in case I want to look up a chapter or scene
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The characters are definitely getting stronger. Look at Usopp. Back at his villaige, he could barely take on Django, and now he was beating the crap out of Luffy. OK, so Usopp lost the fight. But he made MONKEY D. LUFFY cough up blood! He couldn't have done that when he first joined.
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probably the one that we can see obvious increase in strength is zoro since he can cut thru irons now
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What about Sanji ? do you think he is still as strong as Zoro since he never trains and either has a Strong rival like Mihawk or gets to fight the Strong bosses like Luffy?
I think by now Zoro is Stronger ,and i Hope Sanji gets an upgrade by the end of this Arc.:sleep:
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I think Zoro has always been stronger, and always will. But that doesn't say that Sanji isn't super strong!
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@joekido the Second : your signature, I smell Monty Phython and the Holy Grail :D
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The NULL scanlated version of this chapter is out. :laugh:
get it here: http://www.n-u-l-l.net/hf
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the more real opponents you face the more you learn the proper focus of mind which leads to a more efficient usage of your skills (strenght, stamina, speed etc.) in combat. In a real fight you grow much more then you do with just training. quote]
Too damn right!
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Again, I think it's interesting that Usopp still felt weak after making luffy cough up blood.
Anyway, the wait is almost over! Day after tomorrow with any luck we'll finally get a new chapter! Yay!
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wow null is out with 385 and 386, o well i can't dl from mirc due to proxy =/
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wow null is out with 385 and 386, o well i can't dl from mirc due to proxy =/
Preach it, brother. Proxy connections suck major arse.
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Is it just me or does this chapter seem short…it's still cool but a tad bit short???
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everything but one piece is out?
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it's not just you, Namisan….it was a short chapter.
Hm...there are other things out?
It would be nice if the chapter came early. There was a few times when we got it Wednesday. I'm not getting my hopes up though. -
This post is deleted!
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What about Sanji ? do you think he is still as strong as Zoro since he never trains and either has a Strong rival like Mihawk or gets to fight the Strong bosses like Luffy?
I think by now Zoro is Stronger ,and i Hope Sanji gets an upgrade by the end of this Arc.:sleep:
Sanji is smarter , that is one advantage he has over Zoro and Luffy
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Hm….I don't think Sanji is really much smarter than Zoro. They seem about the same intelligence to me. Just different personalities.
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in intelligence, oda gives Luffy 1/6, Zoro 2/6, Sanji 3/6 & Ussop 3/6
6 is maximum intelligence :D -
What did Nami get? 6?
Yeah, Sanji is probably a little bit smarter, but Zoro still got his instincts, like Luffy, and they can mean more then pure intelligence at many times. But sometimes it helps to use your brain too, like Sanji and them did on the sea train, I'm pretty sure Luffy or Zoro would just wooped the ass of every last soldier, they instead got them into a diffrent car and so on.
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NULL have released this chapter already :o
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I don't see how intelligence matters in a fight in the slightest, as even Luffy is a genius when it comes to combat.
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zoro is pretty intelligent imo. of course he's dumbass; but basically he always clearly understands what's going on and know what it means to be an adventurer or precisely a pirate. what he said when luffy defeated usopp is priceless. or when he defeated t-bone.
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Intelligence isn't a fair way to class the straw hats at all, really. Luffy lacks Nami's book smarts but he's a genious when it comes to dealing with people. None of them are all around "Stupid" it's just that their intellect lies in different areas.
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I'm a firm believer in that intelligence can't be completely measured with one scale. IQ tests can be very misleading. Like my niece's dad…probably would score very high on an IQ test. He's great with mathematics and engineering, but a complete moron with the simplest of common sense. And everyone knows the story of Einstein. Other people are brilliant writers, artists, and musicians. And some people just have incredible wit and street sense.
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I'm a firm believer in that intelligence can't be completely measured with one scale. IQ tests can be very misleading. Like my niece's dad…probably would score very high on an IQ test. He's great with mathematics and engineering, but a complete moron with the simplest of common sense. And everyone knows the story of Einstein. Other people are brilliant writers, artists, and musicians. And some people just have incredible wit and street sense.
Well the man had four wives, all of whom loved him till the day he died, so he couldn't have been THAT removed from life.
Incidentally, If after all this wait there isn't the new OP chapter up tomorrow I'm eating someone's spleen
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Holy crap it's Wedneday already. Time flies when you're having fun eh?