Chapter 599, "9 Pirates" Discussion

Verilance

you are lucky enough to be able to read the unaltered Japanese Greg, I surely wish I could but Kanji mystifies me.

rubia_ryu

He was talking about the manifestation of Mephistopheles from the fifth book of Revelations Chapter 23 Verse 666.

edit:

Seriously though, I have no idea where that line is from. If it's from the past few years there's a chance I probably didn't even read it in English ever

I'm not sure why I bothered to search that name in Wikipedia, but I did anyway.

Alright, could we move the topic over to something that isn't talking about religion, philosophy, or sexual intentions?

Verilance

that eliminates all the fun things in life…

Pacer

i wonder if sanji will put his cooking skills together with chopper to make some form of energy revitalizing medicine food…like...nutrient pills or something o.O

Chicken

@Pacer:

i wonder if sanji will put his cooking skills together with chopper to make some form of energy revitalizing medicine food…like...nutrient pills or something o.O

No. Too Naruto-ish.

Maybe

@Greg:

Yes Maybe, I realize which chapter it is. That's why I sourced it in my post.

I was hoping to get my point across but apparently not.

Despite the name being the same when used in proper Japanese, the 'kami' he's talking about is quite different from the 'kami' that Japanese people believe in.

"What? Is this crazy talk? How can two things have the same name?"

Note that immediately after Nami is folding her hands and praying. If the translation didn't suck donkey balls, it would have read, "Oh Heavenly Father, I do not know this man."

"Why Greg?"

Because that right there is exemplifying the 'Western' belief in the Christian (singular) God which is what Zoro is talking about.

"Oh so he doesn't believe in God! ZORO IS AN ATHEIST! I'M GOING TO CUUUUUUU-"

stfu

The Japanese 'religions' are something they consider to be cultural practice despite 'Western' attempts to (understandably) classify it as such.

What Japanese people see as religion is going to church on Sundays.

But millions upon millions of people Japanese people simultaneous visiting a temple or Shrine on New Year's Day? Religion? Preposterous! THAT'S part of their culture.

You can derive the following from the line IF you like:

1. Zoro does not believe in a singular Christian-style God. Whew! Glad he cleared that up! I figured the character he nicknamed 'Mr. Bushido' might be a fucking Fundamentalist.

2. Either way, Zoro believes in himself and does not feel the need to pray to any deity for strength because he believes in his own abilities.

But Zoro could turn out to believe in Korean 'All-mother' bear goddess and her kin tomorrow if Oda fucking wanted it.

Yeaaah

I never assumed the opposite of what you were saying

Greg

Edited my post for an explanation. Read if you're interested.

Yeaaah

I never assumed the opposite of what you were saying

Greg: Zoro might not be an atheist.

Maybe: But Zoro doesn't believe in God.

Greg: >_<

5_Of_Spades

@Greg:

Edited my post for an explanation. Read if you're interested.

Quite interesting actually. Thanks Greg!

So now Zoro is like a pathogenic bacteria… a vicious tri-wielding green pathogenic bacteria.

rubia_ryu

@Verilance:

that eliminates all the fun things in life…

Too bad.

@Greg:

Edited my post for an explanation. Read if you're interested.

Greg: Zoro might not be an atheist.

Maybe: But Zoro doesn't believe in God.

Greg: >_<

And thank you for clarifying for everyone else. Those last three lines pretty much summarize a losing battle. Okay, let's move on.

…But, I've run out of predictions to cheer for. :sad: ... :getlost:

isrnick

Thanks for the explanation Greg. :)

Anyway, Cnet's translation is always more reliable, and in his version there is no "angel of death", and he properly generalized the translation by calling it "the god of misfortune", whatever god this god may be…

Pacer

wait…so japanese people dont necessarily associate "god(s)" with religion, which can be looked at as the same as their culture?

edit: asking just for confirmation, really just for my own personal knowledge and not so much for this silly one piece argument

Verilance

Man this is turning into a class on Shinto…

Sakonosolo

Weird thing, Japan.

Sea

@Greg:

August 2002: A warm sun calls out the last of summer's carefree days. It brings with it One Piece Chapter 245

Atheist One Piece Fans:
'OMIGOD! Zoro is an atheist! That's so awesome! Hey guys look! This guy doesn't believe in any gods! HE SAID HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN A DEITY EVEN THOUGH HIS LINE WAS ACTUALLY ABOUT PRAYING!!!!! OH YEEEES! YEEEEEESSSSS! I'M COMMMMI~~~~~NG!!!!!!!!!!

eyes clinched shut they approach climax

YE–..............YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

body thrashes violently in the trists of passionate euphora

Everyone fucking else:
'Zoro's so badass.'

Fuck you, I am atheist. And I fucking enjoyed Zoro's line.

I was an atheist Buddhist and

! I never believed Buddha is a God. Just some dead philosopher that figured out the truth. "Buddha" means "One who has awakened". And he is dead, seriously. A true Buddhist doesn't pray. Repeating Namu Amida butsu or whatever is a method to calm yourself, or to remember the teaching of the Buddha.
Believing in Karma doesn't mean believing in deities.

Verilance

either you are being sarcastic or the point of Greg's post has entirely missed you somewhere.

Greg

wait…so japanese people dont necessarily associate "god(s)" with religion, which can be looked at as the same as their culture?

No, they do.

Just so long as they aren't their own.

I know…

either you are being sarcastic or the point of Greg's post has entirely missed you somewhere.

Sea is being sarcastic while stating his opinion in one fell swoop. Which makes me giddy since it's the first interaction we've had since the prick abandoned us for books and shit.

Pacer

see? religion is too complicated =.= that why the only thing i believe in is the almighty spaghetti monster.

I survived the buster call

It's ok Greg, Interaction with Sea can have that affect on people. Just breathe deeply.

Greg

As for whether Zoro is spiritual or not, the man buried a sword.

There's a good chance he believes in….things. And he probably isn't an atheist. But you won't find him in a Christian church taking communion.

Mingo22

@Pacer:

see? religion is too complicated =.= that why the only thing i believe in is the almighty spaghetti monster.

Bluuugaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I survived the buster call

All hail his noodly appendages.

Chicken

So….. how about that Perona joining?

Greg

Mingo, again, I implore you to visit the thread where you said my site had many errors and help me out.

Matt and Trey pretty much summed up my feelings on spaghetti monster people.

'Not only do you have to refute the beliefs of others, you have to be a dick about it too.'

5_Of_Spades

Hmm tasty. Not the eyeballs though. Not the eyeballs.

Mingo22

@Greg:

Mingo, again, I implore you to visit the thread where you said my site had many errors and help me out.

despite Dark's insinuations I didn't make some anal list about what i said was incorrect and I don't even remember what I saw as incorrect.

So if you guys are being sarcastic or serious either way I have no recollection of any details since that was about what, 2 months ago?

I also haven't been following the bulk of this discussion. From what I've read I agree with pretty much everything you've said and the out cries have little intellectual basis.

As for the spaghetti monster that comment i quoted is my first time ever hearing about it. I looked it up. And I linked it. Simple as that. There are many more ways to approach this whole religious debate that constitutes someone being a dick on a grander scale then jokingly talking about spaghetti monsters.

Sea

Oda heavily believes in fate. He rants about it all the time.
He, however, doesn't seem to believe in God. The skypea arc, and Norland's flashback, for example.
But there are souls in One Piece. Brook.
Souls can be explained scientifically, I believe.
Actually many Buddhist don't believe in Deities but believe in reincarnation.
Zoro believes souls exist.

Maybe

@Greg:

Edited my post for an explanation. Read if you're interested.

Greg: Zoro might not be an atheist.

Maybe: But Zoro doesn't believe in God.

Greg: >_<

Okay, I concede

Don't know how to read Japanese and most of the time take the scans as truth, sue me

rubia_ryu

@rubia_ryu:

Alright, could we move the topic over to something that isn't talking about religion, philosophy, or sexual intentions?

@Chicken:

So….. how about that Perona joining?

…I should stop trying to narrow topics down. It really doesn't do anything helpful.

@Greg:

Mingo, again, I implore you to visit the thread where you said my site had many errors and help me out.

Sorry to butt in, but which thread is that, and what did he say about your site?

Edit: Well, it seems Mingo isn't interested in talking about that, so never mind.

Mingo22

@rubia_ryu:

Edit: Well, it seems Mingo isn't interested in talking about that, so never mind.

Mainly cause its a super old topic that I don't really have a detailed memory of. So either they are seriously wanting my feedback (which is highly unlikely since any number of them have shared their opinions regarding me) or they are just trying to give me shit for something that has unintentionally been taken as a personal attack that happened so long ago.

isrnick

It was in the topic about the new Databook, it isn't an old topic, in fact the Databook wasn't even released yet, so the topic still will certaily stay alive for some time.

Verilance

or perhaps Greg really wants to know where any errors are so that he can correct them, any good compiler understands to be perfect is a goal that can only be accomplished after hard work. It is easy to slip up on such a comprehensive undertaking and unknowingly allow small errors to creep in.

Mingo22

@Verilance:

or perhaps Greg really wants to know where any errors are so that he can correct them, any good compiler understands to be perfect is a goal that can only be accomplished after hard work. It is easy to slip up on such a comprehensive undertaking and unknowingly allow small errors to creep in.

I'd find that believable if Dark didn't make his off hand comments in a thread that was compeltely unrelated to the thread topic. That or Greg's use of Implore. Rarely is implore ever used in a non sarcastic sense.

But Greg is a grown person who is capable of making his intentions perfectly clear.

@isrnick:

It was in the topic about the new Databook, it isn't an old topic, in fact the Databook wasn't even released yet, so the topic still will certaily stay alive for some time.

I wouldn't know since my activity in that thread was how long ago? Cause i really don't remember.

Chicken

@Mingo22:

I wouldn't know since my activity in that thread was how long ago? Cause i really don't remember.

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=1877216#post1877216

Not very long.

isrnick

And Greg, at least, took you seriously when he asked for your feedback… He himself admited that he had found some mistakes in his website and corrected it, and asked that you report the ones you found if you can...

Mingo22

@Chicken:

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=1877216#post1877216

Not very long.

about a month. and i remember why i said what i said. But i couldn't tell you which ones were wrong at this point.

i'll leave my comment

@isrnick:

And Greg, at least, took you seriously when asked for your feedback… He himself admited that he had found some mistakes in his website and corrected it, and asked that you report the ones you found if you can...

It's hard to read sarcasm on the nets sometimes and as i said Dark made insinuations that came off as an attack. So i apologize for my defensive stance on the subject.

Sea

I am still waiting for your massive list of misinformation on Greg's site Mingo.

Greg

despite Dark's insinuations I didn't make some anal list about what i said was incorrect and I don't even remember what I saw as incorrect.

I'm not being pugilistic. I simply and seriously want to know what was wrong about the Pandaman section. If someone ever points out what's wrong I'm grateful.

Oda heavily believes in fate. He rants about it all the time.
He, however, doesn't seem to believe in God. The skypea arc, and Norland's flashback, for example.

Fuck you in the hiney for bringing up an interesting topic when I've been free all morning but have classes straight until the end of the day now.

Sea

@Greg:

Fuck you in the hiney for bringing up an interesting topic when I've been free all morning but have classes straight until the end of the day now.

Fuck the internet. I was free all morning but no internet. Now I just fixed it and I have to attend a class.
Oh wait, it means we both can save this discussion later.

Mingo22

@Sea:

I am still waiting for your massive list of misinformation on Greg's site Mingo.

I didn't get dark's joking reference in the tounry threads cause i honestly haven't looked in the databook thread since that day and that comment (until a few mins ago of course).

Sadly I'm finally all caught up on the roast and feel like an idiot. :getlost:

rubia_ryu

@Greg:

Fuck you in the hiney for bringing up an interesting topic when I've been free all morning but have classes straight until the end of the day now.

@Sea:

Fuck the internet. I was free all morning but no internet. Now I just fixed it and I have to attend a class.
Oh wait, it means we both can save this discussion later.

Oh, it's gonna be good… goes to get popcorn but realizes that I don't have any

webmailerzzz

@Greg:

As for whether Zoro is spiritual or not, the man buried a sword.

There's a good chance he believes in….things. And he probably isn't an atheist. But you won't find him in a Christian church taking communion.

First: I in no way disagree (neither do I necessarily agree, to be sure, but this is not why I've writ this post).

Second: I do however wonder, why there are so many crosses in Zoro's theme… impending crucifi-- forget it. His intro had him as a demon tied to a cross, the crosses on his sword, Mihawk's island with crosses, and on and on..

As for the Caribou brothers - splaterer and weterer or whatever.. I dunno, I don't see them attempting to fight any of the Strawhats, unless they do not know at the time, the FakeHats are fake. They submitted to the FakeHats, I doubt they'd knowingly fight the Strawhats.

GetsugaZoro

Caribou brother are actually Johnny and Yosaku with their new pirate nicknames, they are clearly looking for Zoro.

Chopper Madness

@GetsugaZoro:

Caribou brother are actually Johnny and Yosaku with their new pirate nicknames, they are clearly looking for Zoro.

how awesome would that be if it were true lol

especially since Oda put that silhouette to throw us off

Maybe

@Chopper:

how awesome would that be if it were true lol

especially since Oda put that silhouette to throw us off

Silhouette?

More like fully drawn out faces with lizard on head

1millionbeli

I think, generally, One piece is quite non-religious. I mean, no one directly believes in the personified god (except skypiea ppl, but for them "god" is a nickname of a ruler).
What they believe in - Power and Justice. These abstract words have life of their own. For Marines idea of Justice is quite religious. They believe in Absolute Justice, or in justice in their heart etc etc.
I've not been in Japan, but i have a Japanese friend whose attitude to gods (here in India) is quite different from what i've seen with other ppl: she happily goes to all the temples, touches fire (part of hindu ritual) - but she doesn't really bother to remember the names of gods or philosophy:) In other wods, she likes to partake in ritual, but it is not part of her soul. She doesn't bother about "god".
One Piece world is quite japanese in this sense.
The ppl who really possess partial godliness are probably those mysterious Ds or beholders of haki - and the ultimate god wil be a pirate king. Because he has most freedom in the world. So Luffy believes in god, whom he is going to become:)
And even when all the prayer talk in skypiea was going, Nami was actually not religious but superstitious. Because of fear we turn to gods - that's what Oda is stating.

That is btw one of the natural ways of establishing a religion - fear.

(sorry, i am just writing my dissertation on quite a religious topic:))