Chapter 596: "Spectrum" Discussion

I survived the buster call

Like i said a few times alread i rly hope the NW will be a darker place than the GL and this time for real.
Calling the GL as a paradise must have a reason, but remembering that people from EB said the same thing about the GL(being hell) i rly hope it finally will turn into such a place.
Haven`t seen that on the GL…it was most of the time not even close to that hellplace they all said it would be in my opinion.
We definitely need more pirates or bounty hunters who randomly go against the SHs.
Also the NW has to be darker in terms of what happens there.
Slavery we already know a bit about or the cruelity of the Celestrial Dragons sure make super cool points to build arcs around there.

Yeah, you have a point. The GL wasn't the pirate's graveyard it was made out to be ahead of time. And if it is a paradise compared to the NW, then it ought to be much more dangerous there–but people live there, so it can't be a total pit in every sense of the word, right? at least not IMHO. I do think there ought to be some very dangerous situations, and perhaps people who are far more desparate and outside the norms in terms of behavior, but I personally don't want to see a lot more dark/evil type stuff like the crucification scenes with Kid, if that is what you mean by dark (it is the usual meaning.)

Mmod

Next month I will marry. Damn it, without One Piece, how will I have some fun during my honey moon?

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

I think Oda should make the story so that we now know that it goes for the top..and like we already saw there you have to risk a lot and you will go against the most evil people in the whole OP world.
So having more mature themes would be something fitting and lets not forget also Luffy is now grown up..maybe that indicates us that also the story will go in a slightley different direction.(even when Greg doesnt think so cause it`s still a shonen manga where i have to agree^^)

I mean we already saw that on the NW-islands are some weird conditions which only the strong can surpass..also the WAR! created a new era of choas which should be seen in the NW the most.

There will always be friendly civilians the SH get in contact with and i hope Oda will never loose his funny side like Akiyama, but i think the villains should be more cruel and evil than before (so all kind of Croc at least) and it should have overall the more darker tone.

I survived the buster call

@Mmod:

Next month I will marry. Damn it, without One Piece, how will I have some fun during my honey moon?

Are you trying to be funny? :wassat: Because this is not a joke you should make to your intended. Usually people have other… activities... on their agenda when on a honeymoon than reading.

@Don:

I think Oda should make the story so that we now know that it goes for the top..and like we already saw there you have to risk a lot and you will go against the most evil people in the whole OP world.
So having more mature themes would be something fitting and lets not forget also Luffy is now grown up..maybe that indicates us that also the story will(even when Greg doesnt think so cause it`s still a shonen manga where i have to agree^^)

I mean we already saw that on the NW-islands are some weird conditions which only the strong can surpass..also the WAR! created a new era of choas which should be seen in the NW the most.

More cruel villains would of course make the emotional payoff of their wins even more satisfying.

There will always be friendly civilians the SH get in contact with, but i think the villains should be more cruel and evil than before (so all kind of Croc at least)

Yeah, I think Greg has a strong point, though. It will still be a Shonen Manga. It can only get so dark, if only for that reason, and the audience of One Piece is also different from, say a darker manga like FMA or Deathnote (These are not Shonen, of course, but my knowledge of manga is limited, so maybe you can come up with an actual shonen example to give me an idea of how dark they are allowed to go. Maybe Inuyasha–it had dark moments, and I believe it was shonen)

I agree Oda is trying to mature the story along with the audience and the characters, but I do think he is going to be limited by the medium he chose.

I am positive he will be able to accomplish what he needs to within the parameters he has, because he is an excellent writer, and tbh I bet they will give him some leeway due in part to his success. I don't think he'll push it too far though just because of who he seems to be in all the stuff I've read about him. He never seems to forget his demographic and get carried away by other stuff.

More evil villains will of course make the emotional payoff even more satisfying when they have their wins, though, fer sure

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

Well an example for a shonen series who was "dark"…
Mhh cant think of one i read. Maybe "Case Closed" is from time to time rly dark in some situations where its just fitting (but actually just saw a few anime episodes of this)
Also iam just saying that Oda should stick with that he introduced so far.
The dead scenes were even more intense cause we don`t see them often by Oda(even when this was sometimes silly from him..but non the less) and iam more talking about themes which show how corrupt the WG and the whole world is.
I mean he started great in showing us that still a slave market exists..
Oda will show us more about the fishman race who is choked since a long time.
Also the Goa Kingdom flashback had a rly rly dark tone (which i definitely liked), where they literally burned the "scum of the kingdom".
I rly think he should keep that darkness in his series.
Not losing the fun and the easy scenes, but still showing us why exactly the world of OP has to change and why the WG should be hated.

Tsukishima

@I:

It will still be a Shonen Manga. It can only get so dark, if only for that reason, and the audience of One Piece is also different from, say a darker manga like FMA or Deathnote (These are not Shonen, of course, but my knowledge of manga is limited, so maybe you can come up with an actual shonen example to give me an idea of how dark they are allowed to go. Maybe Inuyasha–it had dark moments, and I believe it was shonen)

FMA and Death Note are shonen. HunterxHunter can be very dark too.

I survived the buster call

@Tsukishima:

FMA and Death Note are shonen. HunterxHunter can be very dark too.

Really? Thank you, then I stand corrected (I understood them to be Shonen Jump Advanced, which is for a slightly older demographic, I have been told), and if so, I have a better understanding of how dark the manga can get.

@Don, I have to go run errands and other boring stuff, but I will reply asap (as long as noone beats me to it, LOL) as you made some interesting points.

Aka D. Ryuu

thinking off it the strawhat crew has become a preety great pirate crew known through out the world… many new pirates would like to join in under luffys comand right?

wewacian

it's not about who wants to join though, it's about who luffy wants to join

Maki707

It's who Oda wants to join :p.
And no crew will be 'under' Luffy. They'll be allies. He already has the rest of the WB crew. And possibly Buggy and Croc.

Aka D. Ryuu

true but think off it white beard had like too many folowers under his name .. the strawhats are more like the jolly rogers who where just a pirate crew against the world.. but it would be cool for new characters beeing inspired by luffy and his crew that would like to join

Tsukishima

@Aka:

true but think off it white beard had like too many folowers under his name .. the strawhats are more like the jolly rogers who where just a pirate crew against the world.. but it would be cool for new characters beeing inspired by luffy and his crew that would like to join

After the Timeskip, people will probably forget about the Strawhat crew existence. Lots of thing are going to happen while the crew is still training. So, I really doubt many people would like to join a crew that didn't do anything for the past months/years.

FireFistLuffy

@Mmod:

Next month I will marry. Damn it, without One Piece, how will I have some fun during my honey moon?

What the fuck?

16chars….

Aka D. Ryuu

i didnt mean it like flash after they get in the NW … im preety sure that luffy will make his aperiance realy fast after the time skip... And many people will notice right away. this is how its been done... anyway im saying that it would be cool to see someone wanting to join the strawhats cause he admires themm.. but im preety sure that luffy would turn them down if he thinks theyr not funny

Maki707

@Tsukishima:

After the Timeskip, people will probably forget about the Strawhat crew existence. Lots of thing are going to happen while the crew is still training. So, I really doubt many people would like to join a crew that didn't do anything for the past months/years.

Then again they have already done many memorable things and are already a legendary crew wrecking Ennies Lobby, whacking the celestial dragons and Luffy staging a breakout in Impel Down. The goverment also knows they beat 2 warlords
People will remember who they are very quickly.

Tsukishima

@Maki707:

Then again they have already done many memorable things and are already a legendary crew wrecking Ennies Lobby, whacking the celestial dragons and Luffy staging a breakout in Impel Down. The goverment also knows they beat 2 warlords
People will remember who they are very quickly.

So many things are going to happen in the One Piece World, the previous great things the SH did will be a bit overshadowed. Lvl 6 prisoners will start rampaging, new pirate will show up, new Shichibukai, BB.

Probably when they will re-appear, people will remember them, but their popularity will have decreased a bit after the timeskip, especially if it's a long one.

Mikan

After the Timeskip, people will probably forget about the Strawhat crew existence.

What would be the point in that? Oda's just spent a long time putting emphasis on them being the famous rookies, from Enies Lobby to the Luffy's funeral stunt. Heck, Luffy was standing among the most powerful men in the world at Marineford, but everyone recognized and acknowledged him. Making the SHs start all over as nobodies after all that build up is one surefire way to kill the story.

I survived the buster call

@Don:

Also iam just saying that Oda should stick with that he introduced so far.
(provides some really great examples of darkness in the series recently)
…I rly think he should keep that darkness in his series.
Not losing the fun and the easy scenes, but still showing us why exactly the world of OP has to change and why the WG should be hated.

These are some strong points, and I can see what you mean here about the types of darkness better here. In addition I imagine you think he should extend the theme a bit, since you were saying you felt that the NW needs to live up to it's rep as a horrible place, far more horrible than the GL was, and for that to happen the level of darkness must reach new levels, at least in sheer volume, if not in actual individual events (since even in the Blues horrible events have happened and presumedly will continue to happen, at least sporadically, now that level 6 prisoners are running rampant), since by definition, what has already been happening shouldn't be at the level of that inside the NW.

Yes, I wholeheartedly concur that he will keep the pressure up to make the villains (both inside and outside the WG) more and more hateful. I'm not sure that I agree the WG as a whole will be proven hateful, if that was what you meant. I think there are pockets within the Gov't that are hateful, and will be shown to be more so as the story progresses, though, you're right.

At this point I don't think the entire Gov't will be toppled at the end. Rather, I think a smaller, more select group of evil perpetrators, the ones ultimately responsible for allowing or even perpetrating the most heinous acts, will be toppled, with left over "good guys" left to patch the damage and start over.

'Course there's years to go, so I reserve the right to change my stance on that, lol.

Tsukishima

@Mikan:

What would be the point in that? Oda's just spent a long time putting emphasis on them being the famous rookies, from Enies Lobby to the Luffy's funeral stunt. Heck, Luffy was standing among the most powerful men in the world at Marineford, but everyone recognized and acknowledged him. Making the SHs start all over as nobodies after all that build up is one surefire way to kill the story.

I made a mistake, that's not totally what I meant, but I corrected it a bit later.

Probably when they will re-appear, people will remember them, but their popularity will have decreased a bit after the timeskip, especially if it's a long one.

piratemarimo

Speaking of Impel Down, what's going to happen to that place? all the mayhem Luffy caused must have seriously destabilized them quite a bit.

As for the Strawhats, I think don't think they'll be forgotten, but as Tsukishima said, there's going to be a lot of stuff happening in the meantime. People in the OP world are probably going to be more concerned about getting attacked by pirates that no longer need to fear Whitebeard than they would about what Luffy is up to.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

@I:

Yes, I wholeheartedly concur that he will keep the pressure up to make the villains (both inside and outside the WG) more and more hateful. I'm not sure that I agree the WG as a whole will be proven hateful, if that was what you meant. I think there are pockets within the Gov't that are hateful, and will be shown to be more so as the story progresses, though, you're right.

At this point I don't think the entire Gov't will be toppled at the end. Rather, I think a smaller, more select group of evil perpetrators, the ones ultimately responsible for allowing or even perpetrating the most heinous acts, will be toppled, with left over "good guys" left to patch the damage and start over.

'Course there's years to go, so I reserve the right to change my stance on that, lol.

Like in the marines are also a lot of actually good guys, i think we also have some WG guys who are good in the end(but yet they have to show up).
Thats actually a point Oda shows us rly well..that not everything is just black and white.We have in the marines good and bad guys just like by the pirates..just the WG proved that there are so far just bad guys shown.
But non the less Oda has shown us so far that this power which rules the world has to vanish somehow.
I mean they`re the one who still allow the Celestrial Dragons to act as they do..they even allow slavery right before their eyes just to make them happy and Goa Kingdom is an example Oda gave us how the world turns with their lead.
Also seeing how they deal with people like in Ohara shows that they hide a huge dark mistey (the void century).
The justice is also just a joke when we see how EL handles the court^^,
and even ID is just a place to torture those who go against them (even when some pirates deserve to been locked there).

toiim

@Mikan:

What would be the point in that? Oda's just spent a long time putting emphasis on them being the famous rookies, from Enies Lobby to the Luffy's funeral stunt. Heck, Luffy was standing among the most powerful men in the world at Marineford, but everyone recognized and acknowledged him. Making the SHs start all over as nobodies after all that build up is one surefire way to kill the story.

And not to forget, punching a celestial dragon in the face.

flandrian15

@Don:

Like in the marines are also a lot of actually good guys, i think we also have some WG guys who are good in the end(but yet they have to show up).
Thats actually a point Oda shows us rly well..that not everything is just black and white.We have in the marines good and bad guys just like by the pirates..just the WG proved that there are so far just bad guys shown.
But non the less Oda has shown us so far that this power which rules the world has to vanish somehow.
I mean they`re the one who still allow the Celestrial Dragons to act as they do..they even allow slavery right before their eyes just to make them happy and Goa Kingdom is an example Oda gave us how the world turns with their lead.
Also seeing how they deal with people like in Ohara shows that they hide a huge dark mistey (the void century).
The justice is also just a joke when we see how EL handles the court^^,
and even ID is just a place to torture those who go against them (even when some pirates deserve to been locked there).

You have some valid points there but in the conversation Rayleigh had with the strawhats about knowing the true history, they decided not to act on it and said that the SH's could come to a different conclusion when they find out. Perhaps this is an indication that it is not as one-sided as it may seem (SH's = good guys vs. WG = bad guys) and I think that Gol D. Roger decided the WG was still a needed force in the world and could not be taken down (yet) for the sake of the world and that the history should NOT be known. The time had not come yet probably. Maybe at the end of this story the time will have come or it could be the exact opposite and the SH's and others take out the corrupt branches of the WG/marines and will fight alongside the good ones left against a common foe.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

Maybe Rogers crew wasnt able to do much at that time ,cause Roger was near to die and i guess the SHs cant alone destroy the WG. They will more act like those who will send the message around the world which will than lead to a change. Also that Roger thought the history shouldnt be known i think is wrong , because
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-301/page012.html
he wnats that everyone discovers that for oneself^^

Mikan

Perhaps this is an indication that it is not as one-sided as it may seem (SH's = good guys vs. WG = bad guys) and I think that Gol D. Roger decided the WG was still a needed force in the world and could not be taken down (yet) for the sake of the world and that the history should NOT be known.

These guys tried to hunt down a pregnant woman and her unborn child. Does Oda have to attach a flashing neon sign saying "hey, it's a Jesus allusion! These people are evil!"

If Roger thought that what he found needed to be hidden, he wouldn't have said what he did on the execution platform. Easiest answer: he didn't have the time, so he left the job to the next generation.

I survived the buster call

@Don:

Maybe Rogers crew wasnt able to do much at that time ,cause Roger was near to die and i guess the SHs cant alone destroy the WG. They will more act like those who will send the message around the world which will than lead to a change. Also that Roger thought the history shouldnt be known i think is wrong , because
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-301/page012.html
he wnats that everyone discovers that for oneself^^

Yes without a doubt, Roger and his crew made a choice about the knowledge they gained from the poneglyphs, and whether that choice was based on his lack of time due to his illness, or other things, we have to wait to find out. (Not sure if the Jesus symbolism is what Oda had in mind with the babykilling, Mikan, although it could. Doing such a thing isn't new in history, and it's just inarguably purely evil, so a great way to show evil)
Ooh That particular page you quoted, Don, is one of the most intriguing for me thus far in the whole series. Why you ask? (Because surely you must ask, even if you already know, just to be kind, lol!) Because while Gan Fal, Robin and all of us readers assumed it meant Roger knew not only how to read the ancient laguage, but also how to write it, as it turns out, he did not, as Rayleigh told the crew while at Shakky's in SA.

It raises so many delicious mysteries! It appears the base upon which the bell of Shandia rested was made of the same suposedly indestructible material as the other ponglyphs, right? If it is, then by definition you shouldn't be able to carve anything into it. It's indestructible, after all. Then there's Ray saying Roger didn't know how to read the writing, never mind write it, but that he could "hear the voice of all things" http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page006.html So how on earth did that writing appear there? Many many people looked at the stones, but noone else' name is there with a message like Roger's. What's different about him? He's a "D." So we are left wondering–are the stones responsive to "D's" in some way? Do they respond to a combination of D's and haki, maybe, and something internal causes a message to appear? What is the connection between the will of "D" and the stones? What is teh connection between the moon culture Eneru saw and the "D's" and the stones? Oh my it gets so exciting doesn't it? It seriously curls my geeky little toes!

It seems pretty clear at this point that Roger's message about his treasure upon his death was intended to get other "D's" heading to the last Poneglyph in Raftel, but what will they find there?

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

Also when Roger couldnt read the porneglyph he shouldnt be able to write something in that language.
And that Poneglyphs are undestroyable..yeah you got a good point there BusterCall,but don`t we know that seastone is also unbreakable but still you can form handcuffs and stuff out of it^^

Maybe its also to see in the sense of whatever is written there wont be forgotten through history.^^ So you cant destroy it^^ But i guess many WG guys tried to destroy a stone they found and they werent able..
Haki i wouldn`t think has something to do with it because also bad guys from the marine or WG could use that.
About being a D. has something to do with it…well we have to wait but Robin said herself that those are interesting^^

I survived the buster call

@Don:

Also when Roger couldnt read the porneglyph he shouldnt be able to write something in that language.
And that Poneglyphs are undestroyable..yeah you got a good point there BusterCall,but don`t we know that seastone is also unbreakable but still you can form handcuffs and stuff out of it^^

Maybe its also to see in the sense of whatever is written there wont be forgotten through history.^^ So you cant destroy it^^ But i guess many WG guys tried to destroy a stone they found and they werent able..
Haki i wouldn`t think has something to do with it because also bad guys from the marine or WG could use that.
About being a D. has something to do with it…well we have to wait but Robin said herself that those are interesting^^

Where did they say Seastone was indestructible? I don't recall hearing that, and it doesn't make sense in the face of the existance of cuffs, really. Plus Croc made a cage out of it in Alabasta and Smoker has some on the end of his staff, not to mention the bottom of marine vessels. It has to be workable somehow.

Yes, I think they said somewhere the stones were indestuctible in order to protect the history. Couldn't pull up a page to save my life though–anyone else recall?

The reason I made a connection to Haki is because of the "hears the voices of all things" comment about Roger. That sounds like haki to me--the kind our little friend Koby has, no less. I have to guess (along with most of you, I'm sure), based on what Roger said to WB, and what WB said about waiting for a special chosen one, that there has to be a connection between the "will of D" and the poneglyphs. You may be right about the haki not counting because not every "D" has been shown to have it (Saul, BB thus far, to my memory), but the connection seems strong non-the-less. I'm thinking based on this, that the bulk of the story of the trip to Raftel will end up as a race between the currently active "D's"--i.e. Luffy and BB. That makes the time spent getting stronger all the more harrowing, really. Can't wait too long--because BB isn't some weak newcomer.

piratemarimo

@I:

Where did they say Seastone was indestructible? I don't recall hearing that, and it doesn't make sense in the face of the existance of cuffs, really. Plus Croc made a cage out of it in Alabasta and Smoker has some on the end of his staff, not to mention the bottom of marine vessels. It has to be workable somehow.

Yes, I think they said somewhere the stones were indestuctible in order to protect the history. Couldn't pull up a page to save my life though–anyone else recall?

About sea stone:

!
It's the hardest substance in the world, and even Mihawk can't cut that, but obviously the government has some kind of unknown method to shaping it how they want.

As for the poneglyphs:

!

I survived the buster call

Hah! Thank you Piratemarimo. Awesome! Yet another mystery the WG has unraveled. I bet dollars to donuts that Vegapunk was behind that discovery, too. (In fact if memory serves, seems like Koby said something like that in W7 when he told Luffy about the Navy's ship bottoms, but I could be wrong)

piratemarimo

@I:

Hah! Thank you Piratemarimo. Awesome! Yet another mystery the WG has unraveled. I bet dollars to donuts that Vegapunk was behind that discovery, too. (In fact if memory serves, seems like Koby said something like that in W7 when he told Luffy about the Navy's ship bottoms, but I could be wrong)

No problem.

Vegapunk is behind every discovery. :ninja:

and because I have no life, I dug up Koby's line too:

!

Darknessslayer

I'm sure if the sea stone is that strong like a diamond, there is something to cut it and or shape it. Maybe the heat it high enough to pressurize it and shape it like that then just shape it to what they need. That my theory anyways.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

Seastones are the hardest substance but somehow Vegapunk finds a way to do everything^^
He`s Odas answer to everything which is normally not possible in the OP world.
Before we heard that a guy named Vegapunk exists, i always thought that they would use just little pieces of seastone(lwhich should be found in nature) and combine them with other stones (like they nowadays use a method to fill the walls of a safe.)

SubZero

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Ryuunaga

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SubZero

Nah but with Sea Stone bullets, even a normal marine can use it.

Cyborg_Franky

im not sure if they can shape sea stone i mean what if thos e handcuffs just had like a sea stone pin in the cuff or something of that line like maybe their lined with tiny sea stones and the bottom of warships as well.. im not sure how smoker got his wepon but im sure we could get a explanation maybe sea stones too heavy and it cant be propelled forward by gun powder

I survived the buster call

@Mr.:

~~Zephos~~ JERK DISEASE is a pretty good example of the type of people you're talking about…

Was looking back into the thread for references and saw this. Normally I don't answer this stuff–but since you quoted me directly and put words in my mouth that I don't agree with, I feel the need.

No, I was not speaking of JD. There are a variety of reasons he doesn't fit what I wrote, but basically he is a solid poster who knows WTH he's talking about.

@SubZero:

Nah but with Sea Stone bullets, even a normal marine can use it.

Well they say the things that had seastone with were coated with it, not that they melted and molded it. It's possible that the explosion and friction of being propelled through the barrel of a gun might take it off and render the bullet useless.

Plus don't bullets need to be smooth to fly at the right trajectory or something? (I'm not that familiar with artillary issues)

@Don:

Seastones are the hardest substance but somehow Vegapunk finds a way to do everything^^
He`s Odas answer to everything which is normally not possible in the OP world.
Before we heard that a guy named Vegapunk exists, i always thought that they would use just little pieces of seastone(lwhich should be found in nature) and combine them with other stones (like they nowadays use a method to fill the walls of a safe.)

Well I think that is more or less what they do, since they say it's as hard as diamonds. With diamonds they either use small enough pieces to do the job (like the point on the record player arm that used to touch the records) or they use dust mixed with other stuff to get some of the strength.

Kaiolino

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Tsukishima

@Darknessslayer:

I'm sure if the sea stone is that strong like a diamond, there is something to cut it and or shape it. Maybe the heat it high enough to pressurize it and shape it like that then just shape it to what they need. That my theory anyways.

We use some sort of laser to cut diamond in real life, so I won't be surprise if they are using something similar in One Piece for the sea stone.

@I:

Was looking back into the thread for references and saw this. Normally I don't answer this stuff–but since you quoted me directly and put words in my mouth that I don't agree with, I feel the need.

No, I was not speaking of JD. There are a variety of reasons he doesn't fit what I wrote, but basically he is a solid poster who knows WTH he's talking about.

Try to say Sabo is dead to Zephos and see if he isn't an … er... acerbic member. (That said, thanks for this word, I didn't know it).

SubZero

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I survived the buster call

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MetaMario

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Kaiolino

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I survived the buster call

@Tsukishima:

We use some sort of laser to cut diamond in real life, so I won't be surprise if they are using something similar in One Piece for the sea stone.
Try to say Sabo is dead to Zephos and see if he isn't an … er... acerbic member. (That said, thanks for this word, I didn't know it).

Ah a laser–interesting. You think that's the fall back job for Kizaru? LOL!

And... Sabo lives. That is all. LOL

Sea

JERK DISEASE IS acerbic. But he is not fond of being acerbic with newbies.
I think the Poneglyphs might be hardened after carving letters on them.

Cyan D. Funk

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juju14

I am glad Oda didn't raise Luffy bounty. It just shows how crazy you have to be to get bounties higher then Luffy.

Sea

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TLC

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