R.I.P Moria… FOR NOW
Really I would love to see him... But the con arguments are stronger^^
R.I.P Moria… FOR NOW
Really I would love to see him... But the con arguments are stronger^^
@Herr:
why do you miss me?
Obviously.
You probably think that Moria is alive and kicking ass, right?
R.I.P Moria… FOR NOW xD
Nah .
@JERK:
This isn't a point, it's you being really bad at reading or engaging in plot dyslexia where you read what you want into what isn't there.
Plus it's been corrected ten billion times so basically go back to lurking forever.
Excuse me, but I think you are the one who should go back to school and learn how to read.
Read this whole page
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/91854766/4
This is what I am reading here:
Mihawk: I am doubting the credibility of this article.
Perona: What?? You mean they lied about him dying??
Mihawk:I am not sure if he is dead or alive (which for me means that he could be alive EVEN IF THE PAPERS SAID HE DIED), what I am sure is he didnt died in the battlefield.
I dindt see Mihawk saying "Even if they lied about the way of him dying, he is dead for sure" anywhere.
I KNOW Mihawk dont know what happened to Moria after the battle, but he thinks he could be alive even with the newspapper anouncing his dead. And that put us again in chapter 582 end, after which we dont know what happened. So Moria could perfectly be alive or dead, it will deppend on what Oda pretend to do with him. You have at least to admmit there are cahces of him beeing alive xDD
I personally think Moria is dead. The goverment wouldn't report it unless it was at the base of the story, true. They may of lied about how it happened but it wouldn't make sense to say he's dead when he's a alive and risk him being seen alive. If he escaped, why wouldn't they publish somthing like he turned on them so the if he was seen he'd be regarded as an enemy, thus giving all the goverments fighting force (shichibukai or marine) the ability to kill him when they found him an not having to worry about anyone seeing it.
I feel like Hogbag and Absalom are going to join now one of the supernovas…..
Excuse me, but I think you are the one who should go back to school and learn how to read.
Read this whole pagehttp://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/91854766/4
This is what I am reading here:
Mihawk: I am doubting the credibility of this article.
Perona: What?? You mean they lied about him dying??
Mihawk:I am not sure if he is dead or alive (which for me means that he could be alive EVEN IF THE PAPERS SAID HE DIED), what I am sure is he didnt died in the battlefield.I dindt see Mihawk saying "Even if they lied about the way of him dying, he is dead for sure" anywhere.
I KNOW Mihawk dont know what happened to Moria after the battle, but he thinks he could be alive even with the newspapper anouncing his dead. And that put us again in chapter 582 end, after which we dont know what happened. So Moria could perfectly be alive or dead, it will deppend on what Oda pretend to do with him. You have at least to admmit there are cahces of him beeing alive xDD
All he is saying is he doesn't get how Moria could die in the battle when he saw him still alive near the end. He is suspecting what we already know, that the government engaged in foul play and that Moria was taken out by the government, and given a cover story of dying in battle. He is suspicious of the cover story. That's all. 5000 people have already brought this up, and people have already corrected those 5000.
Congratulations on being 5001.
Now go back to lurking. This time do it right, by reading threads.
@Herr:
I personally think Moria is dead. The goverment wouldn't report it unless it was at the base of the story, true. They may of lied about how it happened but it wouldn't make sense to say he's dead when he's a alive and risk him being seen alive. If he escaped, why wouldn't they publish somthing like he turned on them so the if he was seen he'd be regarded as an enemy, thus giving all the goverments fighting force (shichibukai or marine) the ability to kill him when they found him an not having to worry about anyone seeing it.
Best post on this topic^^
It couldn't be more elaborated upon if Oda wanted it to be
DoFlamingo spoke to himself in both of those occasions, like a mad man, he wasn't tricking anyone or lying to anyone, he was clearly saying to himself how great this new age of piracy without weak people is
That's all there is to it, the fact that I'm not the writer doesn't mean shit, because from the things Oda gave us, there's no other possible way to interpretate the character
You can state he is insane, but you misunderstood that what he says to himself could be something of different value.
For instance, some people could believe that Pirate King means fame power and wealth, only; meanwhile, another might think that it is freedom… Does this mean that Pirate King is one or the other, and one of the people is instantly wrong? No. It just means that a person thinks differently than another.
In Doflamingo's speech, he doesn't state and define that "weak" is in attribute of his "hate" towards the weakly-people, like you claim... he merely states "weak" in his speech and anything beyond that would be an assumption that is as likely to be wrong as it is to be correct; thanks to semantics and usage.
In his speech, Doflamingo doesn't state that he despises the weak, he merely states he doesn't wish for various conditions to happen. Ultimately, he doesn't make any statement about condemning the weak, fully.
Sometimes in speech, a character might just say one thing, but that one thing is not of the norm and doesn't mean anything that the thing he stated sounds like it would mean. There are times when characters say they wish to do stuff, certain stuff, but those stuff don't seem common. These are difficult to rate because you would first need to have an idea of what the character is all about, and you'd have to get that part down well. If you have no information about it, then you don't know anything about it at all. Best example is pirate king. Would Luffy's goal in life be the desire to have wealth, fame, and power? No... He explicitly stated the desire for FREEDOM, and nothing of that sort. Therefore, despite the definition of pirate king, there is no previously mentioned reference that "Pirate King" ultimately could infer "freedom" in the whole story, and in respect to the introduction, the title is completely one-sided, yet Luffy went and misunderstood and took it his own way... Does it mean that Luffy fails? No. It just means that he's chasing the same title, but he is going to gain something different than what all the people think it would give him.
Here, Doflamingo feels a certain type of "respect" towards his plans, however, we cannot understand what he's trying to aim for because he's yet to elaborate upon what he wants...
Take Blackbeard. He wanted to start up a storm and make things shake, shake the world... Who knew he would be pulling an Indiana Jones and stealing shit to do it. People were expecting him to freaking destroy stuff, not literally shake the world like a retard, after stealing a devil fruit.
This speech of Doflamingo is the same sort of thing, however, we don't know what it means yet...
Actually, I do, in both speeches
No…
It "was"
you stated it is his narrative, not Oda's… Character comments, dialogue often become difficult to understand when characters like him speak that way.
Of course it is, what could you possibly read from there other than that?
You could, MAYBE, read that it could mean an infinite amount of things because it is stated from his mouth and not in some reliable narration that you think of…
AGOG
I honestly don't forsee a way for you to be taken seriously - you claim one thing - then switch to "playing devils advocate"
Once again, you don't know what I am talking about…
In terms of the fate of Moria, he's dead to me.
In terms of the story involving him possibly surviving, it would be only on account of Doflamingo... Which, could exist.
My argument is to explain why the second part could happen, not if Moria is dead or alive.
Then proceed to ask people to show proof - get given said proof and then say oh because it isn't written with finality there is a insert % here chance such and such could maybe almost happen. Thats not an argument thats leaving wiggle room to recant previous statements.
You missed the part where I've changed the topic to Doflamingo's existence, and not Moria's possibility to survive. Again, this is all about whether Doflamingo could provide mercy to rebel against the WG, like other Shichibukai have done.
MORIA IS DEAD - That is my statement and should I be wrong I WILL BE WRONG
I agree with you, however, to be a sport, I play on the thought that if there is any meaning for Moria to survive, why and what is it… That's what I'm talking about with the Doflamingo stuff.
Your statement is
Moria seems to be dead and there is a lot of implication that he is dead and if it was a certainty then would be written better and there would be bodies and funerals for even the smallest bit part characters like Moria because Oda knows we love him. So therefor he could be alive.
This means you want to be able to go
Moria is found to be alive later "I knew it all along I said that"
Moria is shown to be dead later "I knew it all along I said that"
No, I believe that he's dead because there's no real point in having him alive, and Doflamingo's character would gain an equal build up if he doesn't save Moria… To be honest, his future might be more promising if he was less independent and more connected to the WG, in some way. His connection to the WG would be an interesting part in the story that I'd like to see...
Having him save Moria would just have another run-of-the-mill Shichibukai who sees the WG as a tool for their amenity. I'm, though, sick of that.
Come on grow some balls and make a clear cut statement is he 100% dead or 100% alive stop playing Troll and put some effort in or make all your statements worthless because you want your cake.
I think you know nothing about me… Nothing at all, I've stated that Perona would be a member, despite even having her meet the crew yet. I've even stated that Ace would be revived, despite him being dead.
I've stated some interesting shit in the past, so the thought is cunning, but not worth my time. For the archives, MORIA IS DEAD.
Hope you like it, but my point isn't about him surviving, it's more about what Doflamingo wants.
@Cymelion:
AGOG seems to have dissapeared :(
I'm typing the Perona stuff….
Excuse me, but I think you are the one who should go back to school and learn how to read.
Read this whole pagehttp://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/91854766/4
This is what I am reading here:
Mihawk: I am doubting the credibility of this article.
Perona: What?? You mean they lied about him dying??
Mihawk:I am not sure if he is dead or alive (which for me means that he could be alive EVEN IF THE PAPERS SAID HE DIED), what I am sure is he didnt died in the battlefield.I dindt see Mihawk saying "Even if they lied about the way of him dying, he is dead for sure" anywhere.
I KNOW Mihawk dont know what happened to Moria after the battle, but he thinks he could be alive even with the newspapper anouncing his dead. And that put us again in chapter 582 end, after which we dont know what happened. So Moria could perfectly be alive or dead, it will deppend on what Oda pretend to do with him. You have at least to admmit there are cahces of him beeing alive xDD
The Newspaper obviously said he died in war, which Mihawk knows isn't true.
Could we make a disclaimer in the first post clearing everything up, please? This is the song that doesn't end.
He's a Pacifista now.
They bleed real blood after all
For all we know he COULD be alive, as a slave or testing subject of the upper class.
For all we know he COULD be alive, as a slave or testing subject of the upper class.
Then why would the orders be for him to be killed.
To which I read both sides of the arguments and I am siding with the Sabo is alive side. The arguments convinced me of such and were well written. And if I am wrong I will admit my wrongness.
I prefer to have people know me to be honest with my opinions then to think I was a weazle who looks for any excuse to back out of a statment or recant something they said.
I was talking about AGOG's stance and how it was similar to what I mentioned in the Sabo thread. Not your stance in this thread.
I notice ppl like to play both sides just for the sake of being right in both outcomes or have incredibly stupid requirements to believe someone is alive when they won't budge on their stance and have no logical or reasonable reasons for sticking to it like "I won't believe _______ is alive until he returns in the present story!" Well duh you dumb fuck it'd be too late by then.
@JERK:
Then why would the orders be for him to be killed.
Translations I read don't explicitly state that he has to be killed.
cnet128
Doflamingo: ….........Fuffuffuffuffuffu!!! // Moria... I'm afraid you just don't cut it as a Shichibukai any more. // "Killed in action in a historic battle"... Don't you think that's a fitting end? Better than "erased by the Government", at least!!
Could mean they bring him to Vegapunk or whatnot. I doubting that myself though. It doesn't fit really.
You can state he is insane, but you misunderstood that what he says to himself could be something of different value.
For instance, some people could believe that Pirate King means fame power and wealth, only; meanwhile, another might think that it is freedom… Does this mean that Pirate King is one or the other, and one of the people is instantly wrong? No. It just means that a person thinks differently than another.
In Doflamingo's speech, he doesn't state and define that "weak" is in attribute of his "hate" towards the weakly-people, like you claim... he merely states "weak" in his speech and anything beyond that would be an assumption that is as likely to be wrong as it is to be correct; thanks to semantics and usage.
In his speech, Doflamingo doesn't state that he despises the weak, he merely states he doesn't wish for various conditions to happen. Ultimately, he doesn't make any statement about condemning the weak, fully.
Sometimes in speech, a character might just say one thing, but that one thing is not of the norm and doesn't mean anything that the thing he stated sounds like it would mean. There are times when characters say they wish to do stuff, certain stuff, but those stuff don't seem common. These are difficult to rate because you would first need to have an idea of what the character is all about, and you'd have to get that part down well. If you have no information about it, then you don't know anything about it at all. Best example is pirate king. Would Luffy's goal in life be the desire to have wealth, fame, and power? No... He explicitly stated the desire for FREEDOM, and nothing of that sort. Therefore, despite the definition of pirate king, there is no previously mentioned reference that "Pirate King" ultimately could infer "freedom" in the whole story, and in respect to the introduction, the title is completely one-sided, yet Luffy went and misunderstood and took it his own way... Does it mean that Luffy fails? No. It just means that he's chasing the same title, but he is going to gain something different than what all the people think it would give him.
Here, Doflamingo feels a certain type of "respect" towards his plans, however, we cannot understand what he's trying to aim for because he's yet to elaborate upon what he wants...
Once again, you don't know what I am talking about…
In terms of the fate of Moria, he's dead to me.
In terms of the story involving him possibly surviving, it would be only on account of Doflamingo... Which, could exist.My argument is to explain why the second part could happen, not if Moria is dead or alive.
I agree with you, however, to be a sport, I play on the thought that if there is any meaning for Moria to survive, why and what is it… That's what I'm talking about with the Doflamingo stuff.
No, I believe that he's dead because there's no real point in having him alive, and Doflamingo's character would gain an equal build up if he doesn't save Moria... To be honest, his future might be more promising if he was less independent and more connected to the WG, in some way. His connection to the WG would be an interesting part in the story that I'd like to see...
Having him save Moria would just have another run-of-the-mill Shichibukai who sees the WG as a tool for their amenity. I'm, though, sick of that.
I think you know nothing about me... Nothing at all, I've stated that Perona would be a member, despite even having her meet the crew yet. I've even stated that Ace would be revived, despite him being dead.
I've stated some interesting shit in the past, so the thought is cunning, but not worth my time. For the archives, MORIA IS DEAD.
Hope you like it, but my point isn't about him surviving, it's more about what Doflamingo wants.I'm typing the Perona stuff….
Thank you for your clarification.
But the continued argument over doflamingo is not really essential to the debate I would imagine. Besides his nature shows that he is without empathy and without consideration of those who are weak.
Belamy
Slave House
When he made marines fight each other
Proposal to Crocodile
The simple fact he walks around in a fluffy coat dictates that this man is almost daring you to comment on it so he can kill you (no proof to that but seriously)
But to the extent of the purpose of this thread Moria has been killed off all avenues for escape have been debated and debunked.
Should Moria return later in the series a lot of people here will have some humble pie to eat and I will be one of them - but we'd also be within our rights to be pissed off.
I don't think there is anything that can be added to this thread that has not already been discussed - but it seems to be it has reached its circular argument stage where the same situations are re discussed
@JERK:
That's all. 5000 people have already brought this up, and people have already corrected those 5000.
Yeah, but the correction are not convincing enough. The newspaper clearly stated that Moria DIED. Mihawk saying: "I don't know about his survival" means that he doesn't believe them when they wrote Moria died. Mihawk isn't dumb: if that was impossible the government stated Moria is dead whereas he isn't, he would never doubt about it. He would probably doubting about the circumstances of Moria's death, but he will add something like that: "The government has no reason for lying about Moria's death, so we have to assume he really died"
@JERK:
All he is saying is he doesn't get how Moria could die in the battle when he saw him still alive near the end. He is suspecting what we already know, that the government engaged in foul play and that Moria was taken out by the government, and given a cover story of dying in battle. He is suspicious of the cover story. That's all. 5000 people have already brought this up, and people have already corrected those 5000.
Congratulations on being 5001.
Now go back to lurking. This time do it right, by reading threads.
Please, read Tsukishima above me,understand what we are trying to say,because with your answer I am starting to think you are an idiot.
You totally fail with your argument, try with a better one next time.
Please, read Tsukishima above me,understand what we are trying to say,because with your answer I am starting to think you are an idiot.
You totally fail with your argument, try with a better one next time.
He's not making an argument, he's trying to slap away the hand of people grasping at straws.
I leave for a few hours and come back to like 3 pages of inane posts about Mihawk & Dof being nice or something.
Yeah, but the correction are not convincing enough. The newspaper clearly stated that Moria DIED. Mihawk saying: "I don't know about his survival" means that he doesn't believe them when they wrote Moria died. Mihawk isn't dumb: if that was impossible the government stated Moria is dead whereas he isn't, he would never doubt about it. He would probably doubting about the circumstances of Moria's death, but he will add something like that: "The government has no reason for lying about Moria's death, so we have to assume he really died"
Please, read Tsukishima above me,understand what we are trying to say,because with your answer I am starting to think you are an idiot.
You totally fail with your argument, try with a better one next time.
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
@7:
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
Who are you and why are you so awesome.
@7:
I leave for a few hours and come back to like 3 pages of inane posts about Mihawk & Dof being nice or something.
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
Well said.
@7:
I leave for a few hours and come back to like 3 pages of inane posts about Mihawk & Dof being nice or something.
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
Correct, you are totally right. I never said you were wrong about that, but maybe you missunderstood me.Look what I have bolded. As you yourself has said Mihawk doesnt know if Moria is dead or alive. So he is not trusting at all the news about his dead right? Even with the newspapper saying he dies, he is not only doubting that he died in the battlefield (Which he knows it is a lie), but also the own fact that he died, sugesting the newspapper could be lying even about that fact, which is what at least I was trying to explain. Of course, Mihawk doesnt know about what happened in chapter 582…But we dindt see the end of that neither, not even something similar to a finishing blow. So right now we are the same spot as at said chapter, he could be as dead as alive.
And also, if it is like you have said, it sugests that the newspapper guys dont apport some definite proof about his dead in the article, like for example his burial date.
@7:
I leave for a few hours and come back to like 3 pages of inane posts about Mihawk & Dof being nice or something.
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
Perfect explanation
Correct, you are totally right. I never said you were wrong about that, but maybe you missunderstood me.Look what I have bolded. As you yourself has said Mihawk doesnt know if Moria is dead or alive. So he is not trusting at all the news about his dead right? Even with the newspapper saying he dies, he is not only doubting that he died in the battlefield (Which he knows it is a lie), but also the own fact that he died, sugesting the newspapper could be lying even about that fact, which is what at least I was trying to explain. Of course, Mihawk doesnt know about what happened in chapter 582…But we dindt see the end of that neither, not even something similar to a finishing blow. So right now we are the same spot as at said chapter, he could be as dead as alive.
Woopsie Doopsie Someone Didn't get it at all.
I really don't know whether to consider him dead or alive. If he is alive… I think it'd be at a cost (for Moria). Like... he'd be alive... but something would be different about him.
But I don't know what.
@7:
I will relate this to you two the best I can. If you leave your parents house(after seeing them) and then 10 minutes later you get a call from someone asking are your parents still alive? How would you answer the question? You should answer the same way that Mihawk replied. You do not currently have any proof that your parents are currently alive right now, nor do you have any proof that they are dead. Mihawk is the same way, at this very moment, he doesn't know if Moria is dead or alive, but he knows that he didn't die during the war. If you can not understand this concept; stop posting you are only taking up space.
That's definitely not the same case.In fact, the World Government here stated Moria died, and I can't see any people stating my parents are dead in your post. So unfortunately, your example is irrelevant.
Even if the circumstances might be strange, if Mihawk believed the World Government had no reason to lie about Moria's death, he would never say: "I don't know his survival." but something similar to what I said earlier.
he's trying to slap away the hand of people grasping at straws.
We are not grasping at straws, there are a lot of things strange concerning this case. We didn't see Moria's corpse nor anything that could look like a finishing blow (Oda is not used to kill a lot characters, so that would be a strange way to kill a Shichibukai) + Mihawk's statement.
Oh look another one. Lol
Correct, you are totally right. I never said you were wrong about that, but maybe you missunderstood me.Look what I have bolded. As you yourself has said Mihawk doesnt know if Moria is dead or alive. So he is not trusting at all the news about his dead right? Even with the newspapper saying he dies, he is not only doubting that he died in the battlefield (Which he knows it is a lie), but also the own fact that he died, sugesting the newspapper could be lying even about that fact, which is what at least I was trying to explain. Of course, Mihawk doesnt know about what happened in chapter 582…But we dindt see the end of that neither, not even something similar to a finishing blow. So right now we are the same spot as at said chapter, he could be as dead as alive.
Not at all. Mihawk has NO CLUE what happened to Moria. He only knows that he didn't die in the war(which we already knew). Thus Mihawks whole statement has no impact on if Moria is dead or not. The only thing we(the readers) found out from those panels was that Moria was reported dead, and where he died was reported wrong. Dof even basically told us it was going to be reported this way in chapter 581. So again WHY would they report him being dead if he is alive?
@7:
So again WHY would they report him being dead if he is alive?
Because, if they didn't report him dead, they would have to tell Moria is now an enemy of the World Government. Remember, it's the WG that decide which pirate can be a Shichibukai, if they report Moria became an enemy, that would mean they choose a wrong pirate. After Crocodile, Jinbei and Blackbeard, Moria would be the fourth one to betray the WG. People might start thinking this alliance with pirate was a wrong idea which wouldn't be good for the WG's reputation.
And we know that they are able to do everything to keep a good image (cf: hidden history, the lv6 prisoners…)
That's definitely not the same case.In fact, the World Government here stated Moria died, and I can't see any people stating my parents are dead in your post. So unfortunately, your example is irrelevant.
Sorry let me edit my example, "Someone calls you after saying the *(BBC/CNN/FOX/!E) reported your parents dead". Does that help you understand my example?
Because, if they didn't report him dead, they would have to tell Moria is now an enemy of the World Government. Remember, it's the WG that decide which pirate can be a Shichibukai, if they report Moria became an enemy, that would mean they choose a wrong pirate. After Crocodile, Jinbei and Blackbeard, Moria would be the fourth one to betray the WG. People might start thinking this alliance with pirate was a wrong idea which wouldn't be good for the WG's reputation.
And we know that they are able to do everything to keep a good image (cf: hidden history, the lv6 prisoners…)
You have just proven my point (they wouldn't report anything). They aren't reporting what happen at ID, but you think they would report something about Moria? Do you think people believing that Moria is in good graces is worse than a bunch of level 6 prisoners escaping?
@7:
Not at all. Mihawk has NO CLUE what happened to Moria. He only knows that he didn't die in the war(which we already knew). Thus Mihawks whole statement has no impact on if Moria is dead or not. The only thing we(the readers) found out from those panels was that Moria was reported dead, and where he died was reported wrong. Dof even basically told us it was going to be reported this way in chapter 581. So again WHY would they report him being dead if he is alive?
All right, we at least advanced!!xDD
They would report him dead because it interest them (In my opinion, of course). I mean, they trie to kill one of their Shichibukais, and imagine they failed OR they arent sure about him beeing dead or not (Imagine Dofla let the Pacifistas to end the job with tons of lasers and after the smoke dissipate there isnt anything recognizable at all. What would you think?). Should them then report that he defected?? They would be in a problem, since they would need and excuse. When Crocodile was imprisoned they reveled all the BW thing about him. Jimbei defected officially in front of everyone at the war. And Blacbeard betrayed them also in front of everyone. Could they say Moria defected in the war? No, since they saw him fighting for the government and not defecting at all in the whole combat (Remeber the reporters anoting about everything). So what can they do? Since he is weakened and wont come back full of strenght until some time, they announce his dead. If he later comes back, they could say he defected for unknown reasons and faked his dead at war, or nothing at all, like with the level 6 prisoners (Who of course will be recognized, or are you telling me that if Hittler suddenly invaded Poland tomorrow you wouldnt recognize him? They werent nobodys).
Of course, this is all speculation and something with ehich I would be pleased, you could perfectly be not liking it xD
@Zik:
I was talking about AGOG's stance and how it was similar to what I mentioned in the Sabo thread. Not your stance in this thread.
I notice ppl like to play both sides just for the sake of being right in both outcomes or have incredibly stupid requirements to believe someone is alive when they won't budge on their stance and have no logical or reasonable reasons for sticking to it like "I won't believe _______ is alive until he returns in the present story!" Well duh you dumb fuck it'd be too late by then.
Like you and your unambiguity to pick any character in the "WHO is LIKELY to JOIN the CREW" debate?
I feel, I have the choice to state some conditions towards an argument that has little probability to amuse me. Picking whether or not a character is dead isn't fun to me, I'd rather argue what "significance" that fate would bring, and such.
In light of the Sabo stuff, I played both sides because I figured it could go either way– with the wordings expecting Sabo to be killed, at least to Luffy. With the story building, eventually leading to a point where Sabo is able to survive-- possibly at a loss that would demure him from participating at the war.
Oda picked the part where Sabo may have survived [I'm not being definite here…] and will eventually be shown with a dilemma where he failed to act and save, or attempt to, Ace for some reason. Oda must insert a viable reason now, one that is to be acceptable… Against Sabo living, I said that it would be the most easiest solution and something entirely different than what Oda normally does with his flashbacks.
Picking one over the other wouldn't have been hard, but picking one over the other for a significant reason would have been. I didn't select one because it could have gone either way, but Oda chose to pick the "Sabo lives" part instead.
@Cymelion:
Thank you for your clarification.
But the continued argument over doflamingo is not really essential to the debate I would imagine. Besides his nature shows that he is without empathy and without consideration of those who are weak.
I don't believe that this is "fact" and a proper analysis of his characterization. However, you are correct that this argument is plainly off-topic.
Belamy
Slave House
When he made marines fight each other
Proposal to CrocodileThe simple fact he walks around in a fluffy coat dictates that this man is almost daring you to comment on it so he can kill you (no proof to that but seriously)
Yes, I feel Belamy is dead now.
I know that the Slave House was no longer important to him because it became "a hindrance" to him with how they handled things, plus he had more pressing issues to deal with, and things of importance that would take his attention away from it; his "New Era" that he expects.
That was out of entertainment, nothing else.
We don't know why he wanted to join up with him, but Crocodile made mention of Doflamingo wanting him as his pawn, not partner… Unlike what was verbally proposed.
I'd have to agree that he's insane in that department, but it's still a mystery as to what future he wants to have, and how he wants to create it.
But to the extent of the purpose of this thread Moria has been killed off all avenues for escape have been debated and debunked.
I agree to this…
Should Moria return later in the series a lot of people here will have some humble pie to eat and I will be one of them - but we'd also be within our rights to be pissed off.
I'd think that it would be because of Oda trying to do something with Doflamingo's character only…
I don't think there is anything that can be added to this thread that has not already been discussed - but it seems to be it has reached its circular argument stage where the same situations are re discussed
Yeah, everything about Moria escaping on his own is laughable… Everything about Moria surviving somehow, also seems that way. However, you could expect that Doflamingo playing a pivotal role in this could sway the impression of Moria's survival being "bad storywriting" because he was the only character that was pursuing Moria. Otherwise, it'd be a complete let down to know that Doflamingo failed, the WG ended up printing that, and Moria magically escaped on his by pulling a Houdini...
Because, if they didn't report him dead, they would have to tell Moria is now an enemy of the World Government. Remember, it's the WG that decide which pirate can be a Shichibukai, if they report Moria became an enemy, that would mean they choose a wrong pirate. After Crocodile, Jinbei and Blackbeard, Moria would be the fourth one to betray the WG. People might start thinking this alliance with pirate was a wrong idea which wouldn't be good for the WG's reputation.
And we know that they are able to do everything to keep a good image (cf: hidden history, the lv6 prisoners…)
The populace proably already has mixed feeling at best about the Shichibukai. If any of them turned traitor i doubt the civilians population would be suprised a criminal turned against the goverment.
Reporting him to be a traitor would be the better option if he got away. If they said he died and was later found to be alive, the goverment would look like fools. Naming him a traitor gives them more options to deal with him than lieing about him being dead. That is of course if he lived.
All right, we at least advanced!!xDD
They would report him dead because it interest them (In my opinion, of course). I mean, they trie to kill one of their Shichibukais, and imagine they failed OR they arent sure about him beeing dead or not (Imagine Dofla let the Pacifistas to end the job with tons of lasers and after the smoke dissipate there isnt anything recognizable at all. What would you think?). Should them then report that he defected?? They would be in a problem, since they would need and excuse. When Crocodile was imprisoned they reveled all the BW thing about him. Jimbei defected officially in front of everyone at the war. And Blacbeard betrayed them also in front of everyone. Could they say Moria defected in the war? No, since they saw him fighting for the government and not defecting at all in the whole combat (Remeber the reporters anoting about everything). So what can they do? Since he is weakened and wont come back full of strenght until some time, they announce his dead. If he later comes back, they could say he defected for unknown reasons and faked his dead at war, or nothing at all, like with the level 6 prisoners (Who of course will be recognized, or are you telling me that if Hittler suddenly invaded Poland tomorrow you wouldnt recognize him? They werent nobodys).
Of course, this is all speculation and something with ehich I would be pleased, you could perfectly be not liking it xD
Simple question, do you believe in gravity?
Really how could Moria realistically escape anyway. First he'd have to either beat or get past Doflamingo. Then there's the Pacifistas. And if by God's grace he did that he's at Marineford. Assuming he's now been marked as an enemy of the goverment he'd have to go through enemy territory. However it is possible that Doflamingo's order's aren't known to the Marines. However I honastly don't see him getting past Doflamingo.
If Moria somehow survived and the WG didn't want to report anything about it, couldn't they send some Marines or CP Agents or the Pacifistas to eliminate Moria and THEN report him dead for whatever reason they come up with? If they didn't want to report his betrayal in the scenario Moria survived, it'd make more sense to not say anything until Moria is dead then to prematurely declare him as dead.
he's alive in impel down lvl 6 just like croc was.
@7:
Simple question, do you believe in gravity?
lol, Gravity is not something you believe in, that force is there and thats all, you cant denny it, or else you would be an idiot
But…why do you question me that? ANyway I dont know you but I am not willing in keep on this disscusion, Wheter or not he died or he survived and how will be answered in the manga sooner or later, theres no need to keep on with this when whe are both that stubborn xDD.
lol, Gravity is not something you believe in, that force is there and thats all, you cant denny it, or else you would be an idiot
But…why do you question me that? ANyway I dont know you but I am not willing in keep on this disscusion, Wheter or not he died or he survived and how will be answered in the manga sooner or later, theres no need to keep on with this when whe are both that stubborn xDD.
Gravity is a law, it isn't "proven". If you don't know what a law is go look it up. Currently Moria being dead is a law. Until proven other wise it holds true. Every attempt to explain that he is still alive has been defeated. You can come up with any random "explanation" as to why Moria is still alive, but until this is proven true; it would be like me trying to disprove gravity.
This example may be bad, but here goes:
Level Six Prisoners escaping is like Charles Albright, Ed Gein, and David Berkowitz escaping from prison. They're still infamous, but I'm sure most of the general public, born three or four decades after they were convicted, barely know the names. I had to look up Gein and Albright, by the way.
Moria's publicized death would be like, as 7 Leaf Clover sorta stated, a news station announcing the death of some criminal. We don't know how they died, but what's the point of saying they died if they hadn't? Wouldn't it be easier to just say "Uh, hey guys. Don't want to alarm you, but this pirate guy escaped. He's now wanted by the government." Especially a high-profile pirate like Moria. It wouldn't make sense to say he's dead unless they had undeniable proof.
Yeah, but the correction are not convincing enough. The newspaper clearly stated that Moria DIED. Mihawk saying: "I don't know about his survival" means that he doesn't believe them when they wrote Moria died.
ahahaha, no it doesn't you second language english goon.
He's saying "well I don't know whether he's lived or not person who wants to know if he's alive, but I know I didn't see him die in battle like they claim".
How can you possibly read "I don't know about his survival" to mean he thinks he lived in any sense.
Tsukishima and Ares what does Moria have to offer Doflamingo.
Because he'll need one of those offerings to survive.
Mihawk is clearly saying "I don't know about his survival", this is him brushing off any claim to know about Moria living to Perona.
All he's addressing to her is that the paper is lying about how Moria died so far as he knows. There is no semantics argument about this.
@7:
Gravity is a law, it isn't "proven". If you don't know what a law is go look it up. Currently Moria being dead is a law. Until proven other wise it holds true. Every attempt to explain that he is still alive has been defeated. You can come up with any random "explanation" as to why Moria is still alive, but until this is proven true; it would be like me trying to disprove gravity.
"gasp"
LMAO by comparing this case with Universal gravity law. With laws, even when you cant proove them, if they are valid laws that means that for now things happen as the law says (gravity is not prooven, right, but everything we know for now and that have mass, if put near another mass suffers a force proportional to constant G, both masses and the squared disstance beetween said masses). If this was like with the laws,this thread would have never reach page 2.
I will give you an example,
Imagine your borther and one of his friends went to a war to fight.After the end of the final battle, they separate, and your brother is attacked by a guy and hurt, and he asks him why he is doing him that. No one knows exactly what happened later and neither you nor your borthers friend know nothing about this. Some days later, you meet your brothers friend, who has come back and is reading the newspapper. He informs you that your brother died, you start crying, but he later says he doubt it.
You then ask him:Then he is not dead?
And he answer: I dont know if he is dead or alive…But he for sure dindt die in the battlefield.
Taking this into account, wouldnt you thing your borther still has a slim chance to be dead??
And there are ways of Moria surviving without a magical escape and without looking bad on Dofla: I reread Shabaody, and Kuma was able to stop PX1 once by comanding him to stop. So maybe the other Shichibukais if given can control the Pacifistas. What if Doflamingo beat Moria into a pulp, make him his personal slave in secret, and inform about his dead? If he can stop the Pacifistas, it would be a possibility no?
Kuma saved Moria for him to work with the revolutionaries, Moria is currently at Shabaondy archipielago and will re-encounter with Perona on that place, you heard it here first…
"gasp"
LMAO by comparing this case with Universal gravity law. With laws, even when you cant proove them, if they are valid laws that means that for now things happen as the law says (gravity is not prooven, right, but everything we know for now and that have mass, if put near another mass suffers a force proportional to constant G, both masses and the squared disstance beetween said masses). If this was like with the laws,this thread would have never reach page 2.
I will give you an example,
Imagine your borther and one of his friends went to a war to fight.After the end of the final battle, they separate, and your brother is attacked by a guy and hurt, and he asks him why he is doing him that. No one knows exactly what happened later and neither you nor your borthers friend know nothing about this. Some days later, you meet your brothers friend, who has come back and is reading the newspapper. He informs you that your brother died, you start crying, but he later says he doubt it.
You then ask him:Then he is not dead?
And he answer: I dont know if he is dead or alive…But he for sure dindt die in the battlefield.
Taking this into account, wouldnt you thing your borther still has a slim chance to be dead??And there are ways of Moria surviving without a magical escape and without looking bad on Dofla: I reread Shabaody, and Kuma was able to stop PX1 once by comanding him to stop. So maybe the other Shichibukais if given can control the Pacifistas. What if Doflamingo beat Moria into a pulp, make him his personal slave in secret, and inform about his dead? If he can stop the Pacifistas, it would be a possibility no?
My example is perfect actually. Given the information that we currently have, Moria is dead. Laws are exactly the same. I don't understand your example, no one is doubting Perona might think Moria is still alive. Everyone knows that Mihawk didn't see Moria die; so why wouldn't he doubt the article some what? You can come up with any scenario that you want, it doesn't help the fact that Moria is dead.
What you are saying right now is no different than me saying WB is alive, because Marco revived him using the Dragon Balls. We both have zero proof, and neither makes sense based on what has currently happen in the story(Dof's character).
No one is doubting that the WG has erased Moria.
We just wanna know exactly what that entails.
And since there are some doubts as to Moria's fate still:
Moria is a pretty important character but his death happened off panel
Oda included a scene where Perona and Mihawk cast some doubts as to Moria's death.
then it's safe to assume that there's a little to Moria's death than meets the eye.
And if you don't agree with what I suggest then you can take all those creative writing degees and shove them. You know where.
No one is doubting that the WG has erased Moria.
Actually there's a lot of people that doubt it.