Chapter 591: "You Sure That's Alright?" Discussion
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He could have.
But I highly doubt finding out the Risky Brothers' blood-types would have been beneficial to him ;)
Exactly. Brook's blood type would have been much more valuable to learn…
... except he doesn't have any! Yohohohohohohohoho
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yeah, but it seems like an easy conclusion to make consdiering he was helping htem
By which logic Zambai is a Strawhat.
and still with them afterwards
And they were next seen together by Kuma where? On Sabaody.
So I reiterate.
Unless he had a database of pirates past and present that he accessed and instantly knew all about Brook despite having outdated information on him, it's still a bit shakey.
Not saying it's impossible. Just shakey.
Past experiences suggest that Brook would only have been confirmed as a SH post Sabaody.
Unless Attach was working overtime.
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Yeah so once he saw that the skeleton was a member he could have just sent Brook away on the fly. SUper unlikely.
Though it appeard the non Kuma PX's knew exactly who and what to gun for. I believe one of them spoke Law's name as well as Kidd's. Lets not forget they are programed to know who is the enemy and who is not when Hancock started to attack them. This obviously shows some sort of internal memory within their systems. As much as they cost I am certain the known pirates of the world are stored in their heads. I don't think it's to farfetch'd to believe the real Kuma would not be as knowledgeable as them.
Only problems with that are that Brook was probably thought to be dead for a very long time. Then there is the whole computer brain came last on Kuma's body. Then again he did have some sort of head machineray already as seen with Kizaru's laser and his terminator eye.
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Look folks. Not saying it isn't possible.
It just doesn't seem to fit past scenarios.
Remember. There was an arc when an unknown crew member actually played an integral role in the crew's success.
We had no indication whatsoever that Marines or Kuma where directly aware or made aware of the fact that Brook was with the crew until they were confirmed as such on Sabaody. If Oda wanted us to know the Marines knew, he might have given us an indication…but he didn't.
Again, not impossible, just unlikely given how he's handled public knowledge of the crew's status in the past.
Yeah so once he saw that the skeleton was a member he could have just sent Brook away on the fly. SUper unlikely.
Though it appeard the non Kuma PX's knew exactly who and what to gun for. I believe one of them spoke Law's name as well as Kidd's. Lets not forget they are programed to know who is the enemy and who is not when Hancock started to attack them. This obviously shows some sort of internal memory withing their systems. As much as they cost I am certain the known pirates of the world are stored in their heads. I don't think it's to farfetch'd to believe the real Kuma would not be as knowledgeable as them.
Only problems with that are that Brook was probably thought to be dead for a very long time. Then there is the whole computer brain came last on Kuma's body. Then again he did have some sort of head machineray already as seen with Kizaru's laser and his terminator eye.
This is why I've bolded "pirates past and present" each time. Even then you have to take into account that he randomly decided to research him after TB. Or that on the battlefield at Sabaody he not only 'researched' him but knew where to send him based on old data.
This is why Brook is the only one that seems a bit hard to swallow but we'll see. Kuma could easily have thought, "Who the fu- oh that guy from TB. Uh…okay I dunno what the hell you can do but this seems like a good place." plop
Anyway, this is all just to say while I think Brook's location is a bit of a wild card right now.
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This is an unprovable, but given the unknown extent of his cyborg abilities at the time, could he not have a criminal database inside his head allowing to receive all recorded information on criminals when he meets them? The main counter would be his lack of knowledge about Luffy and Ace's relationship, but since they're not officially brothers and nobody even knew of Ace's existence until he became a pirate that could explain why it's not on government records. Brook on the other hand was a member of some royal guard and would be likely to have some of his powers on record. As I said though, I can't prove this.
What I'm really leaning toward though is that we don't have enough information yet.
EDIT: Greg mentioned the first possibility.
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Do you think its possible they have some sort of wireless internal stransponder snail that conveys information back and forth from a central databank almost instantaneously? Or that perhaps Vegapunk figured out how to utilize that type of technology in machinery, the same way he figured out how to transfer d/f ability to a thing?
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I realize other people have traveled with the strawhats for a while who weren't crewmates. Did you consider that he figured he was probably at least an ally and that it was better to send him away than to let him die and then find out he was the newest crewmember
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@Robo:
This is an unprovable, but given the unknown extent of his cyborg abilities at the time, could he not have a criminal database inside his head allowing to receive all recorded information on criminals when he meets them. The main counter would be his lack of knowledge about Luffy and Ace's relationship, but since they're not officially brothers and nobody even knew of Ace's existence until he became a pirate that could explain why it's not on government records. Brook on the other hand was a member of some royal guard and would be likely to have some of his powers on record. As I said though, I can't prove this.
What I'm really leaning toward though is that we don't have enough information yet.
EDIT: Greg mentioned the first possibility.
He did know about Luffy and Ace's relationship–he asked Nami about it at TB
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@ultimateclima:
Kuma could've been stalking the Strawhats after Thriller Bark which is why he knows about Brook.
He was there at the meeting discussing the Strawhats back at Jaya.
He was the one who went to Thriller Bark because of the Strawhats.
And since we know he's a revolutionary it could've all been part of Dragon's plan for Kuma to keep an eye out on Luffy, hence why he was there to save him when he did.Kuma, the Guardian Angle. :ninja:
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And the million dollar question.
Why wouldn't Kuma tell Rayleigh Luffy's exact location?
Because Rayleigh can swim across the Calm Belt leaving giant sea monsters dead in his wake and collect Luffy ASAP putting a wrench in Kuma's effort to protect him.
And I'll be damned if that's not exactly what the old geezer fucking went and did.
you mean to say that he thought of helping luffy by sending him to an island with a man-hater shichibukai who was about to sail toward the most dangerous war of OP's history? really some help that was…but let's try to accept it for now: so why did he even need to say luffy's direction? he could have just shut up and told rayleigh to wait until the strawhats comeback couldn't he? and lastly, do you really think rayleigh would have tried to reach luffy, had he not lost a brother, received damage beyond words, and, most of all, showed to possess king haki? are you saying that kuma predicted all of luffy future actions up to his return to AL?
It's on page 56.
Yes. You can read Japanese.
We get it.
We don't care.
It's a muddled and needlessly complex approach to an otherwise simple scenario that can be explained by:
He knows where he sent them.
When I read the line it made absolutely perfect sense without having to agonize over subjectverbsubjectnounnounsubjectvolitionalnounverbsubject
nah, that part was only directed to aohige and that those interested who know some jpn grammar, feel free to skip over it
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@I:
He did know about Luffy and Ace's relationship–he asked Nami about it at TB
I already addressed that.
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I love how you completely ignore my arguement about why he might not have told Rayleigh the exact location because they impanted recording devices into him during his cyborg transformation. particularly as I reposted it last time in case you didn't see it. Not gonna do that again, but I do give reasons why it makes sense
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Did you consider that he figured he was probably at least an ally and that it was better to send him away than to let him die and then find out he was the newest crewmember
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This is the only thing I've seriously considered since I first read it. You're asking for me to agree with something I already agree with.
I completely believe that after Sabaody Brook was publicly considered part of the crew.
you mean to say that he thought of helping luffy by sending him to an island with a man-hater shichibukai who was about to sail toward the most dangerous war of OP's history?
I think you meant to say, "Told the Marines to fuck off she had no interest in the war whatsoever."
HEY-OOOOOOOH!
Poor Momonga. His plight forgotten by the masses.
nah, that part was only directed to aohige and that those interested who know some jpn grammar, feel free to skip over it
How can we? You've been spamming it for at least 48 hours.
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you mean to say that he thought of helping luffy by sending him to an island with a man-hater shichibukai who was about to sail toward the most dangerous war of OP's history? really some help that was…
Kuma seems to know his fellow War Lords and must have known she would never go through with the summins. If not for Luffy she would have stayed right at home.
Edit
Dang, beaten again. -
Amazon Lily specifically no one can say just yet. But my best guess is that he figured Luffy would have the hardest time escaping there. A land where everyone is capable of getting through his rubber defense, in the calm belt, with man hating Hancock. Luffy would surely survive, but to escape in time for the war? No way! Well except he did. Not to mention he could potentialy pick up Haki.
Fill in the blank. I love these. ;)
You're suggesting that Kuma chose to send Luffy to the man hating Hancock in the Calm Belt. Even if he did survive, he'd have no way off the island without her help. From what I can tell, Luffy's situation was pretty much "win them over or die." That situation should be quite predictable to anyone who has knowledge of the place, and that in the end Hancock is the only one who matters.
So let's say that Kuma wanted to keep Luffy away from the war like you guys suggest. His answer was then to send Luffy to a place where he'd either die or attain access to the war?
Of course, I'm not even touching on the HEAVILY IMPLIED concept with the line in this chapter that Kuma doesn't know where he sent Luffy. Although, I haven't heard anything about the original Japanese for this line.
@Zik:
Any history dealing with this "mysterious" bridge project could be revealed by the revolutionaries.
So?
Not each SH case. No. Like I said before I feel it's more likely that Kuma knew. I'm sure there'll be some revelations on why Sanji, Brook, Usopp, Zoro, Nami, and Chopper were sent where they were sent.
So you can't defend your stance now, but you're confident. Got it.
Kuma comments about Franky paling in comparison to him as far as cyborgs go. Kuma sends Franky to Vegapunks old lab so he can become a higher qaulity of cyborg. I don't know how this is hard to understand especially after saying Franky's location is easy to explain with any theory.
You can't have possibly needed that line to form that theory.
And these measures are? You make it sound like they can control how many days they're flying through the air at some degree before we even get to where they land.
I said I don't like to go more in depth, and you respond by asking me to go more in depth? You're just trying to make your own alterations to my stance to make it seem stupid.
Wow. Maybe this is why I just don't see this as likely. I just can't find it in me to take that seriously. Maybe it is a valid argument but I'm not grasping the overt fantasy part of the means. Just seems like a reach on how Kuma's DF works.
But the thought of Kuma sending Luffy to Amazon Lily to learn haki and win over Hancock is cool, right? No reach there.
Yes. Not less of a headache just more believable. I find Kuma having the necessary knowledge more of a clear cut route than how some of you are trying to explain Kuma's DF and how it functions in regards to sending ppl places.
Kuma doubles as a dating service.
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I love how you completely ignore my arguement about why he might not have told Rayleigh the exact location because they impanted recording devices into him during his cyborg transformation. particularly as I reposted it last time in case you didn't see it. Not gonna do that again, but I do give reasons why it makes sense
i dunno if that was referred to me (if it was please put a little quote or it's going to be hard to notice) but i'll try to reply:
-you said that maybe the wg already knew kuma was (still) working for the RA but even so, openly admitting that fact is much worse; furthermore he went next to rayleigh 's house (he' still wanted even if he's old) which is an even more dangerous action. (i assume if kuma had a recording chip he could as well have a gps one)-unless rayleigh himself got setup by the wg (but he seems too cool to be outsmarted by the marines), his discussion with kuma shouldn't have been recorded and here's the reason: when nyon comments with a worried face that it's not good that he could find them so easily, rayleigh replies strongly hinting that the marines won't be able to figure it out because ,unlike them, he got told by the perpetrator himself (kuma) luffy's direction ("to begin with, the perpetrator himself told me he blew him away in this direction")
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You're suggesting that Kuma chose to send Luffy to the man hating Hancock in the Calm Belt. Even if he did survive, he'd have no way off the island without her help.
Urouge! Come on man! What gives? Usually you're so creative.
Kuma did this to the man who declared war on the World Government on their turf.
If he sent Luffy almost anywhere else it would have been insulting.
His answer was then to send Luffy to a place where he'd either die or attain access to the war?
You mean 'would have to struggle to survive and as far as Kuma knows from Hancock's past actions, have no way in hell of accessing the war'?
Let's face it. Kuma's plan failed miserably for Luffy because Luffy IS Luffy. But it worked perfectly for everyone else.
Of course, I'm not even touching on the HEAVILY IMPLIED concept with the line in this chapter that Kuma doesn't know where he sent Luffy. Although, I haven't heard anything about the original Japanese for this line.
That and you find it more likely that he figured Luffy and the other fruit users had a much better chance of survival if he sent them randomly flying on a planet 85-90% covered in water?
Oh it wasn't randomly?
So then if Luffy wanted to go somewhere of his 'choice' why didn't he wind up on some place in the New World?
Oh you say he wanted to experience a jungle because of his youth?
So then why didn't he wind up back at Little Garden?
I will still admit it's TOTALLY possible Kuma doesn't know.
But the logic barriers that completely bashes through just…
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So?
So Robin could learn it from them instead of being a slave and not learning it.
So you can't defend your stance now, but you're confident. Got it.
I could come back to you when I bother to form ones for each SH if you want lol
You can't have possibly needed that line to form that theory
It directly supports why Franky was sent there. If anything it's just additional evidence to this view.
I said I don't like to go more in depth, and you respond by asking me to go more in depth? You're just trying to make your own alterations to my stance to make it seem stupid.
So you can't defend your stance now? I mean if this was a solid theory with something backing it why fear that someone would make it seem stupid?
The paw paw fruit reads your heart and mind taking you where you really want to go
But the thought of Kuma sending Luffy to Amazon Lily to learn haki and win over Hancock is cool, right? No reach there.
I never said that. Point it out to me if I did though.
Kuma doubles as a dating service.
So is this a joke or you literally have no response? Concession maybe?
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See that in itself presents a problem. Rayleigh also stated they wouldn't try amazon lily because it was too much of a longshot. Because I'm sure it isn't the only island in the direction Kuma sent Luffy. And rayleigh might not know about the recording devices, it could be only Kuma who knows. Also, perhaps he only went to Rayleigh's house because both of them knew the WG had found out where he lived anyway. FInally, perhaps they would have destroyed him if they thought he was about to say anything particularly dangerous. And perhaps he only made the open admission because he knew either way he was going to die and that what he said at that point wouldn't matter.
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(in answering a question about the timing of Chopper reading the paper being at about the same time as Ray presenting his idea to Luffy) If this is the case, what does Chopper have to be surprised about regarding Luffy? He knows Luffy is somehow safe and that time has passed since the war.
If it was something as simple as, say for instance, a bounty raise, it should make perfect sense.
I'm not saying that isn't possible that you're correct, but it seems very Oda to go the route I suggested.
I'm only gonna comment on this part–the rest has had plenty of attention already.
Chopper was pretty happy go lucky when he left that island--even before he left. ANd the picture of Ace in his head was an alive one (not a newspaper shot of him dead, or the grave or whatever)
What if the paper that Chopper and Usopp read was the same edition. Usopp was still crying, making it seem like very recent news that Ace was dead.
What if the details of the war Chopper mentions were the planning of where and when and how, not after but before, that needed sorting out.
What if what he read was simply the news that Ace had died, and that Luffy was heavily injured and his current state and where-abouts unknown, that shocked Chopper so much. (Why would he be so sure of Luffy's being alive if the folks at Windmill Village weren't?)
I know it's not nearly as interesting as what you suggested, Greg, but is seems possible, if we're sort of ebbing after the war and getting the reaction shots of the crew.
This doesn't discount the possibility that Rayleigh makes some interesting proposition, just that there may not have been any sort of time skip…
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Could someone link me to the beginning of Greg's theory. It seems pretty interesting but I'm too lazy to sift through this entire thread just to find the first post.
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I'm really struggling to see how people think Kuma didn't know where he was sending the Strawhats. I realize the Japanese is ambiguous, but come on. As Greg just pointed out, the odds are most of them would be drowning in the water, not on convenient island locations.
If you don't think the Amazon island was convenient for Luffy, you're ignoring the fact that Raleigh and probably many others know of Hancock's hatred of the Dragons. And suddenly, Luffy is sent there, right after he became famous for spitting in their face? That's improbable and a huge stretch. In fact, it would be lame writing.
Is it really such a shock that Luffy and Hancock might get along? It's not conventional, but Kuma is a smart guy, clearly. It makes far less sense to assume he has no control over where he's sending them. Sorry.
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What if the paper that Chopper and Usopp read was the same edition. Usopp was still crying, making it seem like very recent news that Ace was dead.
Because he wouldn't say, "..again!"
Oda purposely ended the chapter on that point.
Completely circumstantial but the line hit Haruka exactly the same way it hit me.
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@I:
I'm only gonna comment on this part–the rest has had plenty of attention already.
Chopper was pretty happy go lucky when he left that island--even before he left. ANd the picture of Ace in his head was an alive one (not a newspaper shot of him dead, or the grave or whatever)
What if the paper that Chopper and Usopp read was the same edition. Usopp was still crying, making it seem like very recent news that Ace was dead.
What if the details of the war Chopper mentions were the planning of where and when and how, not after but before, that needed sorting out.
What if what he read was simply the news that Ace had died, and that Luffy was heavily injured and his current state and where-abouts unknown, that shocked Chopper so much. (Why would he be so sure of Luffy's being alive if the folks at Windmill Village weren't?)
I know it's not nearly as interesting as what you suggested, Greg, but is seems possible, if we're sort of ebbing after the war and getting the reaction shots of the crew.
This doesn't discount the possibility that Rayleigh makes some interesting proposition, just that there may not have been any sort of time skip…
My only issue with that is, I can not imagine Oda setting us up like that for something we already know. What ever this shock is to Chopper I just don't believe it could possibly be Ace's death or Luffy at Marine Ford. This is something that us as readers do not even know.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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My only issue with that is, I can not imagine Oda setting us up like that for something we already know. What ever this shock is to Chopper I just don't believe it could possibly be Ace's death or Luffy at Marine Ford. This is something that us as readers do not even know.
He said "not AGAIN luffy" AGAIN!!!! It can't be aces death unless Chopper is aware of Sabo.
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Final word before we start recording the INCREDIBLY AWESOME PODCAST.
Kuma's power is to repel.
So he asks some people before sending them away, where they'd like to go.
Then he send them off. If his power is to repel and the indivdual has that place in mind (assuming HIS fruit even reads their mind!) how does it make sense that it would take them where they want to go instead of expelling that idea and sending them to the excat opposite?
Food for thought.
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I think you meant to say, "Told the Marines to fuck off she had no interest in the war whatsoever."
HEY-OOOOOOOH!
Poor Momonga. His plight forgotten by the masses.
so you don't think he predicted luffy would have joined the war, i see.
so what do you think would have happened with the man-hater shichibukai and the weakeaned (because of the fight at SA) luffy on their "first meeting"?
luffy on a man hater island and sanji on a crossdresser island.. maybe you are actually trying to say that kuma is a real sadist and didn't want to tell the exact location just to have those two (three, i forgot zoro with the annoying gothic girl) suffer as much as possible (and possibly die in luffy's case) before being rescued by chuck rayleigh?How can we? You've been spamming it for at least 48 hours.
not really, well not even 1/20 as much as I had to do replying to the "but then why did nobody land on the open sea?" line. but mysteriously now that a mod came up with the very same theory, I hear that line less and less
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Because he wouldn't say, "..again!"
Oda purposely ended the chapter on that point.
Completely circumstantial but the line hit Haruka exactly the same way it hit me.
Well the again could refer to losing people important to him again (as he did on SA) which sensitive Chopper might understand to be traumatizing to Luffy.
And I can hardly call Haruka's reaction circumstantial after using my own dh's reactions earlier today as part of my arguments, lol–not to mention she is reading something written for the culture in which she was born, so theoretically she has more access to any subtext or unspoken cultural references
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Urouge! Come on man! What gives? Usually you're so creative.
I don't have to please you!
You mean 'would have to struggle to survive and as far as Kuma knows from Hancock's past actions, have no way in hell of accessing the war'?
To survive there is to either make friends or defeat Hancock and her army in battle. Either method would allow him to pursue the war. How do you think Luffy would survive there without gaining that access? Endless battle?
That and you find it more likely that he figured Luffy and the other fruit users had a much better chance of survival if he sent them randomly flying on a planet 85-90% covered in water?
I don't subscribe to that crazy theory.
@Zik:
So Robin could learn it from them instead of being a slave and not learning it.
I don't understand how this is a point.
I could come back to you when I bother to form ones for each SH if you want.
Eh, if you want. I didn't really want to get involved with this argument anyway. My side was just heavily outnumbered.
It directly supports why Franky was sent there. If anything it's just additional evidence to this view.
It directly states that Franky has room to grow is what it does. This is applicable to any series of events.
So you can't defend your stance now? I mean if this was a solid theory with something backing it why fear that someone would make it seem stupid?
What kind of psychobabble is this? Simple answers are just fine.
I never said that. Point it out to me if I did though.
Then give me your reason, if it's different.
So is this a joke or you literally have no response? Concession maybe?
It's me disagreeing with you. I figured that was obvious, but I can see now that I overestimated it.
Then he send them off. If his power is to repel and the indivdual has that place in mind (assuming HIS fruit even reads their mind!) how does it make sense that it would take them where they want to go instead of expelling that idea and sending them to the excat opposite?
How does Aum choose what shape his cloud sword turns into?
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If it's dependent on where they want to go, why does he want to ask that? ANd if it's dependent on what they are thinking about, then why wouldn't all the strawhats be drawn to eachother as I'm sure they were thinking of each other and getting back while they were flying above anything else
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I don't think something like Ace dying would be worthy of cliffhanger ending. It would be kind of a red herring on oda's part considering that's not at all news to us. If it was something as simple that Oda would have just said it. I don't recall any time oda has ever hyped something up than just siad "JK guys, it's just old news. GOTCHA!"
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So… We're back to having Luffy in Impel Down again, are we, LOL
I don't know about you guys, but I cannot wait until next week. (Yes I'm a total fan girl--sue me)
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That's just a theory I thought.
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Either method would allow him to pursue the war.
Pursue? Yes of course. The effort wasn't to mentally persuade Luffy to give up everything he stands for.
But to delay and at best prevent him? You bet. Okay srsly guys. I'm out. latez.
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@I:
So… We're back to having Luffy in Impel Down again, are we, LOL
I don't know about you guys, but I cannot wait until next week. (Yes I'm a total fan girl--sue me)
Fan girl, nothing.
The story is getting good, and we want to turn the page already.
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Bye Greg, Have fun
So–anyone know how to use skype to listen to the podcast? is it easy--if not don't bother explaining--I'll ask my dh.
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Pursue? Yes of course. The effort wasn't to mentally persuade Luffy to give up everything he stands for.
But to delay and at best prevent him? You bet.
What about some random island in South Blue? :ninja:
If I was trying to prevent someone from getting somewhere in a week's time, I'd send them to somewhere that was more than a week away. I'm just weird like that, though.
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@Robo:
That's just a theory I thought.
Well, its sort of a way of saying he's doing something outrageous again, in a funny way. It was Greg's to begin with, btw, which may explain the type of humor involved more,
Fan girl, nothing.
The story is getting good, and we want to turn the page already.
True dat!
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perhaps because he wanted Luffy to get back eventually, and I doubt Luffy would be able to do that alone, especially as entering and exiting the grand line is no small matter
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I don't understand how this is a point.
Same way randomly saying Robin cares about history is a point.
Eh, if you want. I didn't really want to get involved with this argument anyway. My side was just heavily outnumbered.
I mean I've bothered to read some of the ppl on my side and there reasons aren't that bad at all. I'll get around to it though.
It directly states that Franky has room to grow is what it does. This is applicable to any series of events.
One being Kuma decided to put him in a place where he could have the opportunity to do so since he's able to choose where they go.
What kind of psychobabble is this? Simple answers are just fine.
You're trying to explain part of Kuma's DF ability. If you're gonna speculate this I'd like you to actually you to make sense of it. It literally just seems like this part of his ability is pulled out of the air. Complaining about me inevitably making it look stupid just seems like an excuse. There aren't any alterations. If it seems stupid, it'd be your words that did that.
Then give me your reason, if it's different.
To kill Hancock.
It's me disagreeing with you. I figured that was obvious, but I can see now that I overestimated it.
Saying I disagree would suffice.
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If it's dependent on where they want to go, why does he want to ask that? ANd if it's dependent on what they are thinking about, then why wouldn't all the strawhats be drawn to eachother as I'm sure they were thinking of each other and getting back while they were flying above anything else
The " nikyu nikyu no mi reads people mind" theory is so bad it makes me cringe. If Oda wanted us to think so, Kuma wouldn't even ask Perona, wait for her answer and look at the Bible.
Kuma's ability seems to work in a very simple way.
"if you were going on a trip..where would you like to go?"people answer - he checks his book, finds some place, does his thing.
people don't answer/don't have the time -"fuck it, i'm sending you wherever i feel like it." -
Agreed. Also there are too many holes. Zoro for instance, does not seem to have been conscious at all after being blasted by Kuma. FOr that matter, even Luffy was only conscious for a short period. And if it was their unconcious minds guiding them, then explain where Sanji landed. And again, I feel the first thing on their minds is going to be meeting each other. Anfd even if they had a set direction with which they could choose, they could still meet back at the one point where they will all inevitably cross: The Shabondy Archipelago, because the world is spherical and no matter which direction you're sent ina straight line in you'll end back at the point you began at sometime
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Of course, I'm not even touching on the HEAVILY IMPLIED concept with the line in this chapter that Kuma doesn't know where he sent Luffy. Although, I haven't heard anything about the original Japanese for this line.
pag 9, top-right panel
初めに彼をこの方角へ飛ばしたと 飛ばした張本人が教えてくれたのではそのラインに女女島が浮かび上がった
"the perpetrator (actually it's a periphrasis and it says: the perpetrator who blew him away) himself told me that he blew luffy away in this direction to begin with, and on that line rose the women island" -
now explain why Luffy would have stopped there by your logic if Kuma didn't decide. Necause you have no explanations as far as I can tell. Saying ours makes no sense doesn't make your explanation make more sense. And if neither makes sense, Occam's Razor tell us that the simplest solution is most likely the best. Yours is clearly not the simplest solution
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It seems to me that if you want to make the argument that Kuma does not know where Luffy and co were sent then you have to argue that Kuma has two separate abilities. First, the ability to send people in some direction determined by their desire/needs/whatever, and second, the ability to just send things flying wherever he wants. We can see that he undoubtedly has the second power by noting that he sent a giant hunk of rock flying off of Luffy at Thriller Bark (we can assume the rock has no desire to be anywhere) and by assuming his cyborg brain offers him superior mathematical abilities to judge force and direction.
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now explain why Luffy would have stopped there by your logic if Kuma didn't decide. Necause you have no explanations as far as I can tell. Saying ours makes no sense doesn't make your explanation make more sense. And if neither makes sense, Occam's Razor tell us that the simplest solution is most likely the best. Yours is clearly not the simplest solution
Who are you. You know your shit.
Post more plz. -
Well now that I know the translation was ambigious and not necessarily what Stephen used then I'm with the people who think that Kuma knew where he was sending them. This whole mind reading their desires stuff just seems like a bunch of unnecessary convolution to attribute Kuma's ability.
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- the subject of the periphrasis (kuma) is clear enough to be omitted: who else could perform that techinque other than kuma? no one; where is the "subject" while sentoumaru talks to luffy? very very close.
I totally disagree. That is not the problem. The problem is where the "飛ばした" is addressed by, not the 本人 part.
The reason for ambiguity is for lack of subject. We agree on that.
These are the two possible lines Sentoumaru meant.（ルフィを・奴らを・対象を）飛ばした本人しかわからねェ
（くまが）飛ばした本人しかわからねェThe top would be "The one who sent Luffy (or whomever) is the only one to know"
The bottom would be "The one who Kuma sent is the only one to know"It drastically changes the meaning.
And the verb "sent" can be applied to either subjects just as well.And I feel it's a lot more natural in context to assume Sentoumaru meant to say "奴らを飛ばした本人しかわからねェ"
Not only that, but even if the other line was correct, that doesn't necessary suggest phychic powers at all.
It would simply mean Kuma doesn't know where they're going, and the one sent will find out where he/she is going.
The crew obviously didn't know where they were going afterall.pag 9, top-right panel
初めに彼をこの方角へ飛ばしたと 飛ばした張本人が教えてくれたのではそのラインに女女島が浮かび上がった
"the perpetrator (actually it's a periphrasis and it says: the perpetrator who blew him away) himself told me that he blew luffy away in this direction to begin with, and on that line rose the women island"You shouldn't translate that so literally.
molokidan got it right this time. 浮かび上がる doesn't literally mean "rise"…. it's a commonly used investigation term to mean the subject came up as a lead, or suspect.「始めに彼をこの「方角」へ飛ばしたと
飛ばした張本人が教えてくれたのでな
そのラインに女々島が浮かび上がった」
