Hey Omae it´s fine when you think like that, but don´t expect everyone to share your views. I personally prefer so see Lucci´s stance towards Spandam gets developed plus the revelation that Robin has been decieved rather then another too rash fight. I prefer decent pacing as it always has been the case in One Piece.
If you don´t agree with that that´s fine but don´t expect us to say that it went nowhere when some of us don´t think so.
Chapter 382 "Demon's Hideout" Discussion
-
-
I actually don't think it got that far either, but it was entertaining to see more of Franky-Spandam.
-
Well as I said neither one point of view is wrong. It all depends on your own focus that makes you determine if much happened or not. Personally I prefer some things that have been open so long to be answered then to get to a fight very quick, since the fighting will inevitably (sp?) happen. But some characters relations, or motivations etc. that have been speculated here for quite some time don´t necessarily have to get cleared up.
And for me personally this chapter cleared two things up that has been discussed a lot here. The one thing is that if Robin was deceived, the entire situation that we had for month´s isn´t the same anymore. And the betrayal happened right here in this chapter.
The other thing is the proof that Lucci doesn´t share Spandam´s ideals. This doesn´t necessarily mean that he must take him down since the opposite is also a valid option, but it definitely proves that Lucci doesn´t share his philosophy. So for my taste we´ve come far since we can put an end to the discussions whether CP9 will deceive Robin or not and whether Lucci share´s Spandam´s ideal or not.Plus even though a fight didn´t start yet, Luffy at least finally met a CP9 member at Enies Lobby already. I´m sure nobody would have guessed that this will happen after Baskerville was introduced.
-
I think that Paulie will meet Baskerville..
-
Who says a chapter needs to go anywhere to be enjoyable? I loved this chapter to bits, it was probably my favourite in some time. I also loved the aforementioned ''Lucci being a bitch'' chapter. They were pivotal, in their own way, in showing the villains shine. This chapter did this like no other.
Up to this point, no matter what kind of stunts he pulled, Spandam was just, well, weak and funny, plus evil. His whole sadistic maniacal tendencies revealed her differ entirely from anything we've seen up to this point.
Plus, we get Lucci's lines, and I don't know about anyone else, but to me they shed some whole different light on his character. Up to this chapter, he was a cool, collected government agent who'd do anything to achieve his goal. Now it's revealed he's in all this for the blood, and the fact his job gives him the right to legally kill people.
Those are awesome developments to witness, especially in only one chapter.
In my opinion, of course. The rest is all as Ivotas said. Next chapter probably will hardly disappoint anyone, and I'm with the crowd in hugely looking forward to it.
-
I missed 381 >_< so this will make no sense to me
-
You can get it right here if you want:
-
I really do wish Blackbeard would show up. I know the chance of that happening is slightly above 0, but damn it would be fun to see him just amble his big fat hairy chest into the Eine's Lobby looking for Luffy, run across a CP9 member than just own him like a cheap toy. Just to show how insane strong he (Blackbeard) is.
-
I really do wish Blackbeard would show up. I know the chance of that happening is slightly above 0, but damn it would be fun to see him just amble his big fat hairy chest into the Eine's Lobby looking for Luffy, run across a CP9 member than just own him like a cheap toy. Just to show how insane strong he (Blackbeard) is.
Yeah, I do wish so. Blackbeard showing up and tossing the CP9 around like toy will be fabulous
-
There is too much ennemies of the mugiwara on enias lobby now for Blackbeard to arrive.
I would prefer that he'd arrive little time after the mugiwara and his pals leave the island, and then, seeing all the marines ass kicked, would say something like 'Now is our time to get the mugiwara' to his crew. -
@Battle:
True, now that she knows Spandam never really intended to keep his promise, well.. seriously. She can drop the stubbornness & stop resisting Luffy & the crew, now that she knows she was fighting for a lost cause.
Yes, now it's the time Nico Robin will go back to crew and yes she would be alittle embarressed about the whole thing and will decide not to pull another foolish bagin plea. Just imagin how she went through since chapter 325:
-She heard the word "CP9" and disappeared, leaving Chopper in the bookstore
-Sanji saw her talking with a masked man, she disappeared on him thus bumping into Chopper
-She was force to do a dirty work by shooting Iceburg
-Robin sits on the roof, looking down the crowd with a downcasted face
-She appeared to Sanji and Chopper, telling them goodbye
-She assist the CP9 raiding the Galley-La, she spents her time strangling Iceburg and telling him where are the blueprints
-She walked away on Luffy, Zoro, Nami, and Chopper. Making it looks like she hates them
-During the Puffing Tom arc, we see Robin all sad and misrable.
-When Sogeking enters her cart, Sogeking tries to help but Robin refuse help and got in a arguement
-She tossed Sogeking across the cart
-She gets all angrey and fustrated with Sanji and Sogeking for not understanding her intentions. When the CP9 begin pulling the deatch cart back, Robin ends up strangling Usopp and rudly told Sanji to leave her alone. When Blueno begins to take Robin, Sogeking tells her not to doubt Luffy; Robin has that look in her eye.
-Franky tells Robin that she should go back to her friends, Robin tells him it will only hurt Luffy
-Robin has that sad look on her face as she turned her head back before entering the courthouse
-In conculsion, Robin finds that all her work was pointless, Spandam tells her he never intend to keep the promise, Robin has found herself hoodwinked by the CP9. Since she hates the WG but she was actully trusting them without awknowledgement. Now she found herself a baffon, she would wish she told Luffy everything in the frist place.
-As the result, Robin will have a storng trust in Luffy and she would be more firm against any fraud and blackmails from the WG, resisting them in strong will. She will hate the WG even more for making her look like a sucker and making her work double-crossed. She will start commuticating with her friends even more.
-
If you don´t agree with that that´s fine but don´t expect us to say that it went nowhere when some of us don´t think so.
Where in the bloody hell did I infer that? If someone makes a counter-point I'm certainly free to counter that with the way I see it. This is a forum. Take a chill pill.
Plus, we get Lucci's lines, and I don't know about anyone else, but to me they shed some whole different light on his character. Up to this chapter, he was a cool, collected government agent who'd do anything to achieve his goal. Now it's revealed he's in all this for the blood, and the fact his job gives him the right to legally kill people.
I wasn't crazy about that either. I pretty much gathered he was blood-hungry when he licked LUFFY'S OFF HIS FINGER HOLY CRAP. Plus the whole him being a carnivore thing and becoming more powerful by exploiting its carnal attributes.
Again just all stuff picked up from previous chapters. I really wasn't too happy. But there's always one or two of those spread out. At least it won't become a duldrum like when everyone was waiting to get off W7.
-
@omae:
Where in the bloody hell did I infer that? If someone makes a counter-point I'm certainly free to counter that with the way I see it. This is a forum. Take a chill pill.
I was refering to your statements like "has everyone forgotten…?" or "...he kicked Robin and broke his promise. oooooooh".
If you don´t like it then it´s fine. But that sub-tone in your argumentation is not as polite as you might think it is. That´s all I´ve been trying to say.
No need to get personal here.
-
No need to get personal here.
Ah yes, another victim of internet text.
Please, just stop thinking everyone is out to be nasty. Not every person is trying to be nasty on the internet. I'm sure you can misread things and I'm sure they may seem like they're being condescending but if you know me irl it's how I talk, it's how I carry myself and I only talk like that with people I genuinely like and feel confortable around.
This is the second time this has happened and I'm sorry if you think people are generally trying to be mean but I'm not. Unless you read it carrying such an attitude yourself with a general perception of me in that light then I'm sure you can see it that way….
Or you could read it as me taking a genuine jab at Spandam for being such a p*ssy in this chapter which is exactly what I was doing. And as far as "has everyone forgotten" how is that even trying to force anyone to share my opinion? I'm genuinely asking a question. Seriously, go and reread that section and look at the bastard with a giant grin on his face. It's scary.
If you take something I write the wrong way, how about asking yourself "Gee, does he really mean it like that?" and do the adult thing to do and drop me a PM or I don't even care if it's in public, "Hey, what did you mean by that omae?" Don't just start lecturing someone without even understanding their view. Thank you.
-
Hey if it´s not like you intended it then it´s ok. I just pointed some thing out I didn´t even say that you can´t do what you do. There´s no need for accusations about what thinking lies deep within my own mind. I´m seriously not interested in debating this any further since it is not what I had in mind when I just replied to your post.
There seriously is no need to lecture me about what is an adult thing to do or not, nor to tell me to take any chill pills etc. I do what I think is the correct thing to do. I simply replied to your post that´s all. Didn´t you say for yourself that this is an online forum?
I seriosly hope we can put an end to this thing since we´re already leaving away from the innitial discussion. No harm intended from my side.
-
Yeah, Let's talk about the chapter, anyone notice my Robin analyze I wrote.
-
Yeah I noticed it. Pretty nice summing up of all her actions and behaviours since CP9 stepped in her life. That´s what I meant when I said that the whole situation we´ve had for month´s now has changed with the betrayal.
All that what you´ve mentioned joekido just happened because she tried to keep her part of the bargain which now appears to have been all in vain. Thanks for listing all of that. =)
-
Here's a question. What if Spandam said something like "We did leave them behind, and through their own fruition, they followed us and attempted to assult marine headquarters. Trying to assult the heart of the World Government is an offence that I cannot ignore." Would you still feel that Spandam was a promise breaking bastard?
By the way, I think that Franky is either going to break free from his chains, or pull an inspector gadget and pick the lock with some cyborge lockpick in a finger or something. (Go Go Franky Lockpick!)
-
Here's a question. What if Spandam said something like "We did leave them behind, and through their own fruition, they followed us and attempted to assult marine headquarters. Trying to assult the heart of the World Government is an offence that I cannot ignore." Would you still feel that Spandam was a promise breaking bastard?
By the way, I think that Franky is either going to break free from his chains, or pull an inspector gadget and pick the lock with some cyborge lockpick in a finger or something. (Go Go Franky Lockpick!)
To answer your question: Spandam wouldn't do that. At all. True, while storming the heart of the WG would qualify as a major offense, but it seems that Spandam wasn't even going to keep that promise in the first place. He's still very much a bastard, only now he's a promise breaking one.
I also remember a couple of chapters ago, when Franky & Robin were still on the PT, that he said that he could break out or something along the lines of that. I don't doubt it that Franky has a very sneaky plan to escape from the WG.
(BTW, I think that Lucci's line about 'blood' means now that he's one of the more vicious bad guys that we've faced. I mean, he doesn't care about the justice, he only is in it for the justifible murder. I wonder how the other members feel about that…)
-
I hope he sticks his own neck for the bloodflow.
-
Thank you I will download at university XD
-
(BTW, I think that Lucci's line about 'blood' means now that he's one of the more vicious bad guys that we've faced. I mean, he doesn't care about the justice, he only is in it for the justifible murder.
Pretty much; if he had any real guts, he'd be a pirate. As is, he's basically a mean-spirited, vicious coward who hides behind his legal status as a Cipher Pol agent. If he was anything else, he'd eventually have people coming after him; bounty hunters and Marines or even just another pirate who got tired of his smartass attitude. This way, he gets all the cheap thrills with none of the consequences.
I wonder how the other members feel about that…)
I hadn't even considered that… I wonder if that is one of the reasons Jyabura hates him so much; he's not loyal to Spandam by any stretch of the imagination, which may well be an offensive notion to a man's best friend Zoan-type.
-
I was just looking at chapter 325 after reading your summary on Robin joe, and I read something that caught my eye… Kaku is a chief mechanic as well, I was wondering what others would feel like if he was the one that ended up joining the straw hats? I know it was done last arc but I think he is a unique character that may fit in well with the strawhats.
Edit: Maybe this belongs in a new thread but it was after reading Joe's summary that I saw this.
-
Did you just read the summary, or have you really read chapter up to now?
I'm really 99% certain Kaku wouldn't join. This has been discussed at length before, but Kaku is still working for the government and I haven't seen any indication that he plans to stop. Plus, they don't need two long-noses. And Kaku is the one that trashed Merry. So I just don't see that happening. Especially not when it's just so much more likely that it would be Franky or Pauly.
-
I think that Paulie will meet Baskerville..
Hey, good idea. Three Galley-La foreman vs the Three Headed Judge.
-
Pretty much; if he had any real guts, he'd be a pirate. As is, he's basically a mean-spirited, vicious coward who hides behind his legal status as a Cipher Pol agent. If he was anything else, he'd eventually have people coming after him; bounty hunters and Marines or even just another pirate who got tired of his smartass attitude. This way, he gets all the cheap thrills with none of the consequences.
I hadn't even considered that… I wonder if that is one of the reasons Jyabura hates him so much; he's not loyal to Spandam by any stretch of the imagination, which may well be an offensive notion to a man's best friend Zoan-type.
My thoughts excactly; Luccis a sadistic bastard, who revels in the pleasure of causing others pain; For instance, the only time we've seen him smile was before owning Franky, and while stating that it's impossible for the Straw Hats to retrieve Robin.
You just summed my thoughts up in a much better way than I could.=)However, judging from chapter 375, I'd say Kumadori would be the most loyal one to Spandam…And seeing as how Jyabura was reffered to as a "stray", I don't think he is loyal by nature.
Edit: Also, when Franky assaulted Spandam, Kumadori was the one who helped him.
A quick, possibly stupid question: Is this the first chapter where we actually hear, in exact wording, of "Toms' death?"
-
@The:
A quick, possibly stupid question: Is this the first chapter where we actually hear, in exact wording, of "Toms' death?"
Nope, in chapter 379 Spandam said the following:
"Just as that FISHMAN who wouldn't give up the goods like we asked him to was killed as treason towards justice!!!"
Well ok, it´s no "Tom´s death" in that statement but we have a confirmation that he doesn´t live anymore and I guess that´s what you´ve been asking for. Or am I mistaking?
-
I believe it means Tom is dead but someone pointed out that it could be Spandam lying to piss him off. Though Spandam doesn't seem like he'd have a problem executing Tom, especially when it was confirmed that he passed the blueprints down.
-
Nope, in chapter 379 Spandam said the following:
"Just as that FISHMAN who wouldn't give up the goods like we asked him to was killed as treason towards justice!!!"
Well ok, it´s no "Tom´s death" in that statement but we have a confirmation that he doesn´t live anymore and I guess that´s what you´ve been asking for. Or am I mistaking?
Nope, you're not, It was exactly what i meant. Thanks for clearing it up.
-
Did you just read the summary, or have you really read chapter up to now?
I'm really 99% certain Kaku wouldn't join. This has been discussed at length before, but Kaku is still working for the government and I haven't seen any indication that he plans to stop. Plus, they don't need two long-noses. And Kaku is the one that trashed Merry. So I just don't see that happening. Especially not when it's just so much more likely that it would be Franky or Pauly.
I can understand where your coming from, but there was a pretty long introduction to Kaku in chapter 325 and it ends with saying "They call him, the mountain wind, cheif mechanic of dock #1 Galley-La Company, Kaku!!!" and I know that could mean nothing at all,
btw Kaku trashed Merry only because his dedication to being a good Mechanic and knowing that Merry was done for good.
And I wasn't asking so much as the possibility, because I know that is very slim, more as asking would it be "Kosher" for One Piece. -
What a cool Birthday Present chapter 382! Thanks for the scans everyone.
This arc is turning out to be my favorite. There are just so many new and interesting characters. I can't wait to see how this all turns out.
-
I can understand where your coming from, but there was a pretty long introduction to Kaku in chapter 325 and it ends with saying "They call him, the mountain wind, cheif mechanic of dock #1 Galley-La Company, Kaku!!!" and I know that could mean nothing at all,
btw Kaku trashed Merry only because his dedication to being a good Mechanic and knowing that Merry was done for good.
And I wasn't asking so much as the possibility, because I know that is very slim, more as asking would it be "Kosher" for One Piece.I think the main problem is that there are two other characters who are way more sympathetic (and more popular), and one more notably so, than Kaku. I mean, Franky just HAS to join.. Oda can't make a character that cool and fun and then just diss him after the arc..
-
Kaku didn't do to merry what a ral shipright woould. He was a shipwright but had no respect for merry. One who cared would have dismantled him properly.
-
I really do want to see Spandam dismissed from his post by the end of this arc. BTW, has the design for Pluton been shown in the manga? I would fall off my seat laughing if the thing looked exactly like Merry.
-
i cant tell whos more evil…lucchi or spandam..prob spandam..but lucchi is just so kool...
-
Hard to say. Both are following their careers for their own reasons (Lucci blood and Spandam power) but I'd say Spandam, as for all of his other evil he's also abusing his position whenever and wherever possible. Lucci may use his position to its fullest advantage (legal killing), but based on how he was in Water Seven five years without major incident we can assume he never went on wonton killing sprees and trie dto blame it all on his victims being enemies of the government.
-
I agree. Its kind of a personal opinion of what is more wicked in your eyes- the abuse of power and the demeaning of people for personal gain OR the excuse to be able to maim and kill for sport while the government looks away?
Both seem pretty bad to me. I love both of the major villians in this arc.
-
I suppose then that Lucci can be compared rather accuratly to the seven gods of pirates. They kill and the government's got their back. The only difference then is that they started as pirates and he started as a ….... something other than a pirate.
-
I suppose then that Lucci can be compared rather accuratly to the seven gods of pirates. They kill and the government's got their back. The only difference then is that they started as pirates and he started as a ….... something other than a pirate.
Except that Lucci and the W7 CP9 would get absolutely demolished by Sir Crocodile. The difference is that the Government needs to bribe the Schichibukai and they know that, if necessary, CP9 can be regulated Aio Kiji or any of his buddies.
-
Except that Lucci and the W7 CP9 would get absolutely demolished by Sir Crocodile.
That's debatable, really. In fact, shounen formula logic would dictate Lucci is stronger than Crocodile. Which I happen to agree with. Give him some water, and Lucci'd have Crocodile down in two seconds.
But, DIGRESSION.
-
@Mog:
That's debatable, really. In fact, shounen formula logic would dictate Lucci is stronger than Crocodile. Which I happen to agree with. Give him some water, and Lucci'd have Crocodile down in two seconds.
But, DIGRESSION.
I have to agree. It wouldn't make sense if the enemies got -weaker- as the manga progressed. How would Luffy show he's improved?
Anyways, I think Ao Kiji could take on Corc without breaking a sweat, and same with any member of CP9 for even more obvious reasons. This makes even more sense to me because I have a feeling that Luffy will have to fight Ao Kiji again in the manga.
-
The beauty in One Piece is unlike for series like DBZ that the next villain isn´t automatically stronger then the previous one but actually has different skills, fighting styles and powers that can´t be surpassed the same way like before.
In DBZ it is basically always the same thing "Let´s use a bigger fireball". This isn´t the case here. The hero doesn´t get stronger by fighting power but by extending his own fightings skills and tactics. It´s called experience and is much more worth then just getting stronger by being healed after a fatal wound or by reaching the next super saiyajin level.
True that guys like Krieg and Arlong are not in a league with Crocodile, Enel or Lucci but the later three all have their own strenghts and weaknesses and it doesn´t mean automatically that the one that appeared later is stronger then the one that appeared earlier. With the proper strategy everybody among these three could beat each other. That´s the beauty of One Piece in terms of the enemies strenghts. And that´s why OP fighting games are actually fun to play while by a DBZ game you could always be like "But Frieza isn´t stronger then Cell, so why did I lose to him?"
-
That's true, I wasn't concidering Enel at all when I was writing that. I suppose Enel, Croc, and Lucci could duke it out for us. XD Anything could happen in such a fight, so I shall refrain from taking sides on that one.
I just ment I concider Ao Kiji stronger than the others (more becuse of his cool use of intellect) because I have a feeling he wont come into the manga again to face Luffy in quite a long time. Ao Kiji also has to have some brains to be a Supreme Admiral, so I'm sure against someone like Croc it would take him a lot sooner than Luffy to figure out to use water.
-
I have no doubts that Aokiji is stronger then these three guys. I was just talking about the villains that have been surpassed or will be surpassed shortly by saying that OP doesn´t work like for instance DBZ.
And another cool thing is that actually the strongest guys get introduced long before they will appear in their defining arc. We already know the strongrest swordsman in the world, the strongest man in the world and the strongest marine officer. And yet we are far away from seeing a real arc about them.
-
One Piece doesn't go with the formula that the next villain is stronger then the last one at all. A great example of this is last couple arcs. We went from Enel to Foxy, then to Aokiji, now to CP9 (who must be weaker then Aokiji most likely). Heck even before Wapol wasn't that strong either, and he came after Mr. 3 and those two giants.
-
Crocodile would beat Lucci's ass. "Oh, all he needs is water!" Even if it's obvious, it's still hard actually getting him with it. That's like saying all Coby needs is some seastone and he can beat Aokiji.
-
Luffy lost too even though he knew the weakness, the third time he won because of his determination not because of water. And Buc, that's a great parable.
-
Bucaneer, ur comparing someone that has(had) no fighting ability whatsoever to a experient fighter.
btw: Croc would kick Lucci's ass :evil:
-
Martial arts won't make a difference.
-
Martial arts won't make a difference.
I don't remember martail arts being mentioned. Anyways how would it NOT makke a differance?