@Del:
He is more like Twilight male characters. Acting all cool and shirtless. It's just disgusting.
You dare to compare ace with lame ass Edward cullen,who drinks blood, who is in love with the dumbest moron ever, who sparkles in the sun, who is the worst fan fictional character ever to Ace?????
I'm certainly not reading the same manga as you.
Naaa shirtless Ace was sexy ( for a manga character ), Cullen was gross.
I don't entirely agree. The start of "that change" is right here at this arc. Sabo's "death" (I myself am not sure if he is alive or not) is the trigger to Luffy's dream. And its not One Piece nor becoming Pirate King. Its becoming free by finding the treasure etc. Before this arc we knew that he and Ace had given a promise to each other to live free and without regrets, but now we understand why. I disagree that Luffy is "being groomed" for great things. Why it gives that impression to us readers is because we see things about him in a reverse way. Its usually we meet a future crew member, see their past and their determination for their dreams, and then see how they r not ready to achieve them just yet (Zoro meeting Mihawk is one example). For Luffy first we see this "character development" after we know a lot about him, then we see the "I'm not strong enough" moment, and then his past. This whole experience of being separated from his nakama, the war, Ace and everything will just remind Luffy (cuz he knew it from the start) that he by himself cannot achieve anything. And this thought will be his motivation to stop crying and focus on finding his nakama.
Not trying to bash ur theory or say that ur wrong, just giving an opinion.
And with this flashback I think we understand a little better now why exactly he picked each and everyone of his nakama, why he protects them with everything he can etc. - because maybe he sees himself a little in everyone, and he knows they too need help to achieve their dreams (like when Robin had given up in the temple in the Arabasta arc), so he helps them, like they are helping him.
No need to apologize. Posting competing ideas is what this forums is for, isn't it? You make some very interesting points. I'm not convinced I'm wrong, but I like some of what you are saying about the role of Luffy needing his nakama and what it will mean as the story develops. I do think delegation is part of being a good leader, but I need to think on the whole thing more.
You dare to compare ace with lame ass Edward cullen,who drinks blood, who is in love with the dumbest moron ever, who sparkles in the sun, who is the worst fan fictional character ever to Ace?????
I'm certainly not reading the same manga as you.Naaa shirtless Ace was sexy ( for a manga character ), Cullen was gross.
I can see the comparison. Your sig doesn't help much either lol.
Only good thing about Ace was his hat. Hopefully Sabo has it now.
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
I can see the comparison. Your sig doesn't help much either lol.
Only good thing about Ace was his hat. Hopefully Sabo has it now.
my sig is thunder.
And I guess we won't be able to agree on ace.
I could somehow understand the first comparison, but with this freaking lameass vampire. IMPOSSIBLE!!! Nobody deserve to be compared with Cullen.
And no Ace's hat wasn't the only good thing about him.
And Sabo is DEAD!!!!! And he won't come back.
Stelly on another hand is going to be a MAJOR character
my sig is thunder.
And I guess we won't be able to agree on ace.
I could somehow understand the first comparison, but with this freaking lameass vampire. IMPOSSIBLE!!! Nobody deserve to be compared with Cullen.
And no Ace's hat wasn't the only good thing about him.
And Sabo is DEAD!!!!! And he won't come back.
Stelly on another hand is going to be a MAJOR character
Your sig is awesome, ace topless is awesome, could anyone imagine him wearing a red muscle shirt?? No. Just no.
As for Cullen, I again agree, but Sabo is dead?? Now I really don't think anyone can say if he is or isn't, that's why Oda's such a genius, he has thousands fighting over a character who is less than 10 chapters old. Pure genius.
my sig is thunder.
And I guess we won't be able to agree on ace.
I could somehow understand the first comparison, but with this freaking lameass vampire. IMPOSSIBLE!!! Nobody deserve to be compared with Cullen.
And no Ace's hat wasn't the only good thing about him.
And Sabo is DEAD!!!!! And he won't come back.
Stelly on another hand is going to be a MAJOR character
We won't be agreeing on Ace.
Dead Sabo won't be coming back but alive Sabo is coming back.
I can see Stelly show up again.
Ace's not a bad character. However, because he was basically a stronger, older, smarter and more mature version of Luffy, he wasn't a particularly interesting character. Then this war came and we also found that he had daddy issues and didn't value his own life, and people began to make jokes about "emo whining Ace".
Ace's role in the story is done. He was created to be a tragic character. This flashback was in part made to make us feel more sympathy towards him, since we had so little exposure to him in the main story.
After reading Greg's explanations I'm going to lean more towards him being alive too. Though I still hope Bentham is dead, if only because I want to see Greg eat his underwear :devil: .
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
We won't be agreeing on Ace.
Dead Sabo won't be coming back but alive Sabo is coming back.
I can see Stelly show up again.
alive sabo is busy being dead.
Ace's not a bad character. However, because he was basically a stronger, older, smarter and more mature version of Luffy, he wasn't a particularly interesting character. Then this war came and we also found that he had daddy issues and didn't value his own life, and people began to make jokes about "emo whining Ace".
.
This emo talk was boring.
Ace was depressed not an emo ( what does this word really mean by the way).
An emo for what I understand whines about his life, and finds fun to cut himself. Ace cried TWICE in the whole arc.
The first time because he was happy ( that's so emo) and the second time he was eeemmm DYING.
The dude basically was stressed because his whole crew was going to be hurt because of him.
But yes it seems that if a man show some emotion he has to be a pussy. GREAT!!!
And what's the problem with daddy issues, that was cute.
Sabo is alive people.
This emo talk was boring.
Ace was depressed not an emo ( what does this word really mean by the way).
An emo for what I understand whines about his life, and finds fun to cut himself. Ace cried TWICE in the whole arc.
The first time because he was happy ( that's so emo) and the second time he was eeemmm DYING.
The dude basically was stressed because his whole crew was going to be hurt because of him.
But yes it seems that if a man show some emotion he has to be a pussy. GREAT!!!
And what's the problem with daddy issues, that was cute.
Hey, direct it to the people who say it! I was just talking what's Ace's problem with a lot of readers. I have no problem with him.
Oh, by the way, should I begin bothering you how Hancock is a great character just because I like her and you don't?
We seriously need a poll for all this debate, to know who of they were wrong when Sabo shows up alive :ninja:
Hey, direct it to the people who say it! I was just talking what's Ace's problem with a lot of readers. I have no problem with him.
Oh, by the way, should I begin bothering you how Hancock is a great character just because I like her and you don't?
ooo I wasn't really talking to you.
I said that the emo talk in general WAS boring. Not your post.
And no I don't want to argue on Hancock. It would be pointless.
We seriously need a poll for all this debate, to know who of they were wrong when Sabo shows up alive :ninja:
if this kid is still alive. This would anger me more than when I found out that Hancock was in "Loooooove" with luffy. Barf
This emo talk was boring.
Ace was depressed not an emo ( what does this word really mean by the way).
An emo for what I understand whines about his life, and finds fun to cut himself. Ace cried TWICE in the whole arc.
The first time because he was happy ( that's so emo) and the second time he was eeemmm DYING.
The dude basically was stressed because his whole crew was going to be hurt because of him.
But yes it seems that if a man show some emotion he has to be a pussy. GREAT!!!
And what's the problem with daddy issues, that was cute.
@Kairouseki:
I've always found that picture funny. But it's really getting old wasn't it drawn at the begining of the impel down arc?
The reason Sabo will be powerful is because of his fight ranking with Ace.
The moment I saw that board I instantly fell in love with him and with Oda (again).
It's a hint that says, "Hey look, this kid can go fisticuffs with fucking Ace and come out NEARLY even."
Imagine that grown up. You've got someone who's at most a what? Johz level? (btw I dunno what the acceptable trans for him is) I mean holy shit folks, that's AWESOME.
Anyway yeah. Sabo is alive.
I've seen some people say I'm 'sure of that'.
I'm not 'sure of it'. It's just simply that he is alive. That's all there is to it.
Greg you are a wise and very good man.
However there is no point in this back and forth bickering, neither side will budge using logical reasoning.
Greg you are a wise and very good man.
However there is no point in this back and forth bickering, neither side will budge using logical reasoning.
But… it.. doesn't... make... sense...
This flashback SCREAMS "Character Introduction", not "Motivation"
Grrrr, even if it takes 300 chapters, I'm sure Sabo will be back
But… it.. doesn't... make... sense...
This flashback SCREAMS "Character Introduction", not "Motivation"
Grrrr, even if it takes 300 chapters, I'm sure Sabo will be back
this chapter screams FUNERAL!!!!!!
The Chapter screams Oda messing with us again. Gotta love it.
If Sabo ends up dead, I will admit I have read 587 chapters with my eyes and ears shut and closed.
It happens, I didn't foresee Ace's death when the realization that WB was going to die hit me.
But… it.. doesn't... make... sense...
This flashback SCREAMS "Character Introduction", not "Motivation"
Grrrr, even if it takes 300 chapters, I'm sure Sabo will be back
Funny cuz the whole Ace and Luffy vowing thing screams motivation to me.
But Sabo wouldn't be necessary at all if Oda only wanted to use him as motivation
Greg you are a wise and very good man.
I am a man that has porn stars in my avatar.
However there is no point in this back and forth bickering, neither side will budge using logical reasoning.
It's to the extent where I can't argue it. There's no use arguing it. Sabo is simply alive. Usually these things bother me but this doesn't. It could be years from now. I might even have a kid by then. But it's what Oda planned.
I am as sure of this scientific fact as I am of the time I delivered the ultimatum that Zoro had beaten Ryuma in the chapter we saw him fall.
People called me crazy, said my ideas were absurd and that I had no idea what I was talking about. But I know Oda. And while I can't read the man's every move, there are certain story opportunities that he takes and sets up that I can read like a book, and I mean that in the best of ways.
I am sorry to disappoint anyone rooting for him to be dead, but he's very much alive and his return will be GLORIOUS.
June 14th 2010
I am a man that has porn stars in my avatar.
It's to the extent where I can't argue it. There's no use arguing it. Sabo is simply alive. Usually these things bother me but this doesn't. It could be years from now. I might even have a kid by then. But it's what Oda planned.
I am as sure of this scientific fact as I am of the time I delivered the ultimatum that Zoro had beaten Ryuma in the chapter we saw him fall.
People called me crazy, said my ideas were absurd and that I had no idea what I was talking about. But I know Oda. And while I can't read the man's every move, there are certain story opportunities that he takes and sets up that I can read like a book, and I mean that in the best of ways.
I am sorry to disappoint anyone rooting for him to be dead, but he's very much alive and his return will be GLORIOUS.
June 14th 2010
Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto. So ditto that I'll say this on the podcast if I don't forget.
I am a man that has porn stars in my avatar.
It's to the extent where I can't argue it. There's no use arguing it. Sabo is simply alive. Usually these things bother me but this doesn't. It could be years from now. I might even have a kid by then. But it's what Oda planned.
I am as sure of this scientific fact as I am of the time I delivered the ultimatum that Zoro had beaten Ryuma in the chapter we saw him fall.
People called me crazy, said my ideas were absurd and that I had no idea what I was talking about. But I know Oda. And while I can't read the man's every move, there are certain story opportunities that he takes and sets up that I can read like a book, and I mean that in the best of ways.
I am sorry to disappoint anyone rooting for him to be dead, but he's very much alive and his return will be GLORIOUS.
June 14th 2010
Except this time, there are plenty that agree with you
Don't take all the credit for yourself when he's found to be alive, I want my share
So the chapter discussion has already gotten to the Ryuuma fight argument stage? Good.
Nothing more to see here people, move along.
Where is your avatar from, SilverBlade?
Unless I see a body, then there will be no conclusive proof, at least to me, that he is dead. If you wanna get down to it, if we take scenes literally, then Franky should have been dead in his flashback (even though we knew he was alive to begin with, but that is besides the point.) Back then, because of the circumstances, Spandam believed that Franky was dead, and look what happened, Franky survived.
Where is your avatar from, SilverBlade?
It's future Sabo fanart. Don't you see the resemblance?
! It's from The Witcher game.
The game is based on the book series that the polish guy in my signature has written. Quite a read, I say.
@Shuhan1288:
Unless I see a body, then there will be no conclusive proof, at least to me, that he is dead. If you wanna get down to it, if we take scenes literally, then Franky should have been dead in his flashback (even though we knew he was alive to begin with, but that is besides the point.) Back then, because of the circumstances, Spandam believed that Franky was dead, and look what happened, Franky survived.
BUT we never saw the ohara citizens bodies, we never saw tom's body… and they are DEAD!!!!
no!!! Sabo has to be dead!
I am a man that has porn stars in my avatar.
There is no contradiction to my statement, if you maintain a healthy sexual lifestyle.
Yes, Sabo is alive, but it really doesn't matter at this point. The Strawhats haven't even reunited yet, it will be years before we see him.
Besides, most of oharans were douchebags.
Douchebags don't survive in a middle of a Buster Call in my One Piece.
Most of the Oharans were also killed by Akuinu, who has proven to be very effective at killing people.
I'm saying Sabo is alive, not that its likely we'll get closure for this debate this decade.
his return will be GLORIOUS.
The line between GLORIOUS and GHASTLY will be paper thin for me, hingeing on the explanation for his 10+ year silence.
and then I skipped all posts containing the word Sabo in future, until his return or confirmation of his demise.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/588/11/ If you haven't noticed, pandaman is in the second row, Right panel.
The line between GLORIOUS and GHASTLY will be paper thin for me, hingeing on the explanation for his 10+ year silence.
It's his one year silence that bothers me. Not the past 9. The past 9 he had no reason to contact them. He didn't know that they thought he was dead.
The question is, with all this stuff about Ace in the past few weeks (their timeline) and with Luffy being an infamous pirate, it's suspicious why he didn't show up.
BUT Oda already has that reason decided so no use worrying about it.
@45°Dunc:
The line between GLORIOUS and GHASTLY will be paper thin for me, hinging on the explanation for his 10+ year silence.
This is exactly how I feel.
I still can't beat the feeling that it will be a don't be sad about Ace 'cause there's still Sabo thing. Which to me kind of cheapens Ace's death. If Sabo is alive Oda better have a really great reason for Sabo never getting into contact with his precious brothers.
It would be kind of awful if Sabo is alive and Ace never knew… I just can't see Oda being that cruel. Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking.
@I:
The Chapter screams Oda messing with us again. Gotta love it.
Hence why he took the break.
BUT we never saw the ohara citizens bodies, we never saw tom's body… and they are DEAD!!!!
no!!! Sabo has to be dead!
Ohara was up against Akainu. There's no hope when you're facing Absolute Justice…..unless you are/will be a Straw Hat.
Tom had a giant harpoon sticking through him and was sent to Impel Down.
I believe Spandam mentioned his death, but I'm too lazy to go look through all those chapters anyway.
It would be kind of awful if Sabo is alive and Ace never knew…
Don't worry, he knows. We'll find out such when they're able to hear the 'voice of all things'.
The reason Sabo will be powerful is because of his fight ranking with Ace.
The moment I saw that board I instantly fell in love with him and with Oda (again).
It's a hint that says, "Hey look, this kid can go fisticuffs with fucking Ace and come out NEARLY even."
Imagine that grown up. You've got someone who's at most a what? Johz level? (btw I dunno what the acceptable trans for him is) I mean holy shit folks, that's AWESOME.
Anyway yeah. Sabo is alive.
I've seen some people say I'm 'sure of that'.
I'm not 'sure of it'. It's just simply that he is alive. That's all there is to it.
This just makes me think of what Dadan said to Ace in this very chapter about how weak he is and how he would be 'killed and forgotten the next day' if he went off to get revenge. Ace and Sabo were strong kids, but they were still kids. And even though this is One Piece and there are lots of fantastical things that happen, we've seen that being strong isn't always enough. Remember, Ace was strong as Hell as an adult and still got taken out like a chump by both Blackbeard and Sakazuki.
It's not that far fetched or 'un-Oda' for a couple of cannonballs to have killed Sabo. As a matter of fact it screams 'Oda' to me, and will make Luffy's eventual rise to 'Pirate King' all the more poignant.
@Corson:
It's not that far fetched or 'un-Oda' for a couple of cannonballs to have killed Sabo. As a matter of fact it screams 'Oda' to me, and will make Luffy's eventual rise to 'Pirate King' all the more poignant.
Cannon balls killing Sabo making Luffy becoming PK more poignant hahahaha lmao how so?
I meant Sabo's death in general. Perhaps I could have worded it better, but you know what I mean now (though, knowing you, you probably knew what I meant all along).
I'm in the "Sabo's DEFINITELY alive" camp. This is simply the way Oda tells his stories. Sabo will return, he is going to be super-powerful and it will be awesome. Period.
This just makes me think of what Dadan said to Ace in this very chapter about how weak he is and how he would be 'killed and forgotten the next day' if he went off to get revenge. Ace and Sabo were strong kids, but they were still kids. And even though this is One Piece and there are lots of fantastical things that happen, we've seen that being strong isn't always enough. Remember, Ace was strong as Hell as an adult and still got taken out like a chump by both Blackbeard and Sakazuki.
You're not seeing the big picture.
Yes they're children. Ace and a frigging she-male silverback gorilla supposedly barely took out some shit-hole pirate that dicked around in East Blue.
Of course he was comparatively 'weak' as a kid.
But he was still hard as nails for his age. Look at the crazy crap he accomplished during that time killing giant wild animals, taking out a penis-faced pirate solo and so forth.
And Sabo was right behind that.
Oda included that intentionally so that we could see if Sabo pursued his path of fighting and getting stronger, he'd be capable of great things.
So when he shows up again we're not all like, "Whaaaat? Bullshit! He's no Ace!" Well no, he isn't, but he's damn close.
