Thanks to Him, There is some Loyalty in the World
you forgot Coby. Our true Lawful Good buddy.
I voted for Aka inu also, for the same reasons mentioned. He's lawful evil.
Thanks to Him, There is some Loyalty in the World
you forgot Coby. Our true Lawful Good buddy.
I voted for Aka inu also, for the same reasons mentioned. He's lawful evil.
why the fuck does foxy have 10 votes
why the fuck does foxy have 10 votes
And in comparison, Moria has 6… Thats just poppytalk...
Aokoji himself once said that "absolute justice sometimes drives a man insane" so based on that…I don't think Akainu is evil, but rather slightly insane. Sure he could be less ruthless in his drive to eliminate pirates, but maybe in the past he was leniant and it backfired. Perhaps his family was killed by pirates and he has no tolerance whatsoever. We just don't know and just because he is the current antagonist...we can't call him despicable...
Tenryuubito on the other hand…they seem like little children who always get their way. I voted for them since there is no option for "corrupt WG system" and its despicable actions. Tenryuubito embody everything that is wrong with the WG.
@Sir:
Which is why I've repeatedly said that Akainu is not necessarily evil for doing those things. He is evil because of his actions at Ohara and because of his extreme "I am justice and everyone who disagrees with me is worthless" attitude.
Akainu is extreme yes, no argueing about it. But I do not agree with you on his attitude, he considers the WG's justice to be true and absolute and for the order of the society those who go against it must be punished. He doesn't set himself above others, or consider himself to be an exeption to the rules (from my interpretation).
At Ohara, he considered it worth a few hundred innocent lifes to eliminate the risk of one of the criminals to escape - he follows his orders from WG down to the letter.
@Sir:
No cruelty? He tore into him with a fist made of magma and the guy died screaming….There definitely are good arguments for Akainu killing a deserter, and I might accept those, but that's all. You can't say he isn't cruel (he told the man "you must not care for your family" before killing him).
^Hard to kill a man with magma without causing him pain…(at least he died in seconds)
I find Akainu to absorbed into obeying orders and executing the WG's justice to be cruel, and he didn't show any satisfaction at killing Ace either - other than "One down, you next Luffy" with the tone of a man going to work.
@Sir:
Okay, so all that means is that Marines are justified in going after Luffy and Ace. But from what we've seen, they have almost no reason to consider them actually evil, and it doesn't really seem like your average marine would, even when they were trying to kill them.
Pirates in OP are (most definitely) viewed as murderers and theives are in our world. So of course the Marines considers pirates (in general, not invidually if they get to know them perhaps) as evil.
@Sir:
But like I said, that's not really the problem. Aokiji and Kizaru both went after Luffy, but I don't really consider them bad people - same as Smoker.
Vast differences in personality. Kizuro is goofy, Aokiji is lazy and let people of the hook and Smoker is nice to little girls. Akainu personality is following orders and protect the WG.
Smoker actually follows the WG while questioning them but I guess he'll come around. Aokiji approaches things in his own manner, and while not shown actually questioning them the WG, he let the Straw Hats go twice which shows that he doesn't wholehearthly believe in the WG's justice. I find both to be worse then Akainu simply because they follow WG with open eyes, seeing the corruption that causes so much unnecessary deaths while Akainu follows them blinded by ideals.
@Sir:
And like you said, that is his fault. Following orders absolutely doesn't make him a good person, because he never had to get into that position. And it's not like he doesn't like what he does. He isn't like a normal foot soldier who sees Luffy, a criminal, and attacks because it's his job to attack pirates. He wants to kill Luffy because Luffy has a jolly roger and because he's the son of a criminal. He isn't noble or just. Even if some of his actions are justified, he is still an evil person who has never gotten a bit of characterization that would make him appear otherwise.
I certainly don't consider Akainu as a good person, he is as hard a man as they come. And of course he wants to take Luffy down, he flies his own jolly roger (piracy is still a crime sentenced with death) and is the son of the worlds most wanted man. That is not even extreme of Akainu, but the whole deal of killing Luffy just because he is Dragon's son, or killing Ace just because he is Roger's Son is. But killing the sons (and daughters) of men that was dethroned, or attempted a revolution was very common in our own history. Big names carries weight and can gather a lot of men, there is a potential risk of leaving an heir to someone whose place you usurped or attempted a coup d'état. Killing one potential innocent may save you from war.
And I think it's obvious that Akainu is going to be a future villain so of course Oda is setting him up as a person to dislike (or like, if you are weak for the villainous types^). So I wouldn't count on Akainu having any redemptional qualities.
Enel had an annoying god-complex, spandam and arlong were sadistic assholes and the tenryuubito have a god-complex and are sadistic assholes.
Still voted foxy though, that jerk was just obscene.
And you know what I don't get, it's okay for the marines to kill their own men, but not for the pirates.
I mean, even the pirates find it a crime to kill their own crewmate.
That only applies for the Whitebeard pirates. The difference is that, so far, the marines kill their own men who break their rules in some way, but I'm sure that pirates like Don Krieg or Crocodile can kill their own subordinates just to get what they want, or just because they are annoyed.
That only applies for the Whitebeard pirates. The difference is that, so far, the marines kill their own men who break their rules in some way
Or questioned an Admiral. Or got in said Admiral's way when he was in full lava mode and taking out everything in his path.
And you know what I don't get, it's okay for the marines to kill their own men, but not for the pirates.
I mean, even the pirates find it a crime to kill their own crewmate.
^Trying to compare desertion in a war to and it's punishment among an organized military force to a nation (well, a collective of nations) to killing a nakama among Whitebeard's crew is ridiculous to begin with….
You might be better of to compare the part where Whitebeard punish the man who break his rule by death to how Akainu (the marines) deal with the deserter(s).
@Uncle:
At what point did Akainu go off and do something that was an act of evil with no purpose or not for the greater good?
When he killed that random marine. Also when he tried to kill Coby. He's basically Axe Hand Morgan cranked up to 11.
When he killed that random marine. Also when he tried to kill Coby. He's basically Axe Hand Morgan cranked up to 11.
Random Marine: "Yo, Akainu. How's it hanging?"
Akainu: "Ah… You know. Chilling. Killing."
Random Marine: "True."
magma fist
That didn't happen. He killed him not because he was having a bad day but because that random marine was desserting. Desserters have switched sides in the past. Had said marine did his job instead of running away like a coward then I doubt Akainu would have cared. Same reasoning goes towards Coby.
@Uncle:
Random Marine: "Yo, Akainu. How's it hanging?"
Akainu: "Ah… You know. Chilling. Killing."
Random Marine: "True."
magma fistThat didn't happen. He killed him not because he was having a bad day but because that random marine was desserting. Desserters have switched sides in the past. Had said marine did his job instead of running away like a coward then I doubt Akainu would have cared. Same reasoning goes towards Coby.
You think that he would just order someone to shoot him and make it nearly painless instead of burning him to death.
About Coby…Wasn't Akainu's whole reaction supposed to convey that he'll willing kill anyone who doesn't agree with his views?
@Cyan:
You think that he would just order someone to shoot him and make it nearly painless instead of burning him to death.
About Coby…Wasn't Akainu's whole reaction supposed to convey that he'll willing kill anyone who doesn't agree with his views?
He probably doesn't know how to use a gun. He's pretty reliant on his powers. >_>
A foot soldier that he has authority over was telling him to stop killing and pursuing criminals that are huge threats to the world while crying. That's both dessertion and cowardice. Armies don't like that shit.
@Uncle:
A foot soldier that he has authority over was telling him to stop killing and pursuing criminals that are huge threats to the world while crying. That's both dessertion and cowardice. Armies don't like that shit.
Then tell the kid "Get the fuck off my battlefield" and get some soldiers to drag him off, then start talking about punishment after you're done making sure you establish yourself as a maniac to your enemies.
@Cyan:
Then tell the kid "Get the fuck off my battlefield" and get some soldiers to drag him off, then start talking about punishment after you're done making sure you establish yourself as a maniac to your enemies.
It was probably quicker to just one-shot him. At that point, Akainu had the authority to execute him and Coby knew this as well. He didn't question why he was being killed, he knew full well that what he did was a crime.
@Cyan:
Then tell the kid "Get the fuck off my battlefield" and get some soldiers to drag him off, then start talking about punishment after you're done making sure you establish yourself as a maniac to your enemies.
They're in a war kiddo. On-the-spot decisions are made, killing the obstacle is a lot faster and easier then giving order to some other guy for apprehension.
Akainu :"You there!! Get this whining coward out of my way and lock him up!! I'll deal with him later!"
Marine A :"Yes SIR!!"
Pirate A :"Die marine!!!!"
Marine A:"AAAAARGH"
Akainu :"Aw crap. Oy you there!! Get this whining coward out of my way and lock him up!! I'll deal with him later!"
Marine B:"YES SIR!!"
–---rinse and repeat-------
Akainu is either an idiot, a psychopath or a sadist. He either can't see the evil in his actions due to stupidity, due to a lack of morality or just doesn't care that it's evil. Even smoker, famed for his single mindedness of justice (moral justice but still) can see and knows that the marines are caught up in a bloodlust, wanting revenge not victory, and yet someone his senior is actually encouraging this wanton lack of forethought and insight.
In his opinion, it isn't evil. From his point of view, pirates are but evil scum waiting to be executed and traitors sympathizing with them are just the same.
So he's a psychopath because he can't see the evil in his actions ooor he's an idiot because he can't understand that his actions are evil.
No. He's just following what has been stated is justice.
Pirates are evil, remember?
And traitors, according to Alighieri Dante's image of hell (the inspiration for Impel Down), have an even deeper spot reserved than pirates (thiefs, murderers), so him attacking them as well makes good sense.
He's evil, he's enforcing the rule of tyrants and dictators and using his position as a mask for his sadistic/psychotic nature at the same time. And when has there ever been religion in one piece? (the closest is Skypiea's Kami system) Thus all he does is kill, Buddhists don't believe in hell, they believe in reincarnation, albeit in different forms, thus the closest thing to punnishment is coming back as a slug.
He's evil, he's enforcing the rule of tyrants and dictators and using his position as a mask for his sadistic/psychotic nature at the same time.
Huh?? Excuse my rude intervention… but really, what now?? Where are you getting all this??
He is just a morally-deprived, upholder of Absolute Justice, who thinks evil must be vanquished at all costs...
Tousen of Bleach fame uses justice as a mask to carry out physcotic ends. Akainu is an absolute upholder of justice and takes it to its highest extremes. The two aren't the same.
YamiYami has a unfounded hardon for hating Akainu. Nothing you say can convince him that he isn't a bloodthirsty sadistic murdering baby rapist. I do like how he's saying that Akainu is abusing his position, just using it as a cover for his bloodthirsty nature when in the entirety of the manga Oda has made him the pinnacle of the Absolute Justice train of thought…Enel was a psycho, Arlong was a psycho, Lucci (who actually stated that his job was just a cover for his love of killing) was a psycho...Akainu is the embodiment of Absolute Justice which is still Justice...
Since when is killing civilians and your own men who've done nothing wrong (I'm talking about the ones who were manning the Ohara evac ship) justice? He's a psychopath or an idiot if he truly believes he's doing the right thing.
Since when is killing civilians and your own men who've done nothing wrong (I'm talking about the ones who were manning the Ohara evac ship) justice? He's a psychopath or an idiot if he truly believes he's doing the right thing.
… That is absolute justice you know. If he had killed, lets say a Marine who was fighting his hardest, then I would call it bloodlust.
Since when is killing civilians and your own men who've done nothing wrong (I'm talking about the ones who were manning the Ohara evac ship) justice? He's a psychopath or an idiot if he truly believes he's doing the right thing.
He killed them not because he's bloodthirsty but because by killing them, an Ohara scholar hiding among them would have died with them, thus they can't escape. This prevents a buster call in the future which would take even more lives. And even more important, this prevents an Ohara scholar from ressurecting an ancient weapon and endangering the lives of millions.
I wouldn't put it past him to go through one of his own men in order to kill an enemy, but that's absolute justice. Sooo… absolute justice = stupidity? why not just have the foresight to withdraw the marines from said boat, sweep through and quarantine the ship? (Though of course the real reason was to reduce the number of witnesses)
I'm not saying he's for certain bloodthirsty, I'm just saying, he's insane, an idiot (thus, misinformed), or evil and bloodthirsty. Because if he's none of those three he wouldn't be the way he is.
@Uncle:
He killed them not because he's bloodthirsty but because by killing them, an Ohara scholar hiding among them would have died with them, thus they can't escape. This prevents a buster call in the future which would take even more lives. And even more important, this prevents an Ohara scholar from ressurecting an ancient weapon and endangering the lives of millions.
So he's not bloodthirsty, just paranoid as fuck.
@Cyan:
So he's not bloodthirsty, just paranoid as fuck.
This is the golden age of piracy, not peace time.
The really funny thing is that people are calling the tenryuubit despicable, and yet the marines good and doing the right thing.
Not all the marines are good. Spandam and Axe Hand Morgan were straight up evil. And Akainu, though representative of absolute justice, is kind of a dick. Though at least he has an argument.
@Uncle:
This is the golden age of piracy, not peace time.
He was dealing with scholars. Not raping, pillaging sailors with guns and swords. Hell, just taking a quick look into that blasted tree to see that they're all there would've sufficed. Or better yet, send someone over to that refugee boat quick and see if a scholar snuck aboard. No need to blow it up without evidence to back up the hunch.
@Uncle:
Not all the marines are good. Spandam and Axe Hand Morgan were straight up evil. And Akainu, though representative of absolute justice, is kind of a dick. Though at least he has an argument.
You're the first person I've seen argue Akainu's villainousness thats admitted he's an asshole and not just some admiral whose had it with these motherfucking pirates in his motherfucking base and is just doing his job. Kudos to you.
I wouldn't put it past him to go through one of his own men in order to kill an enemy, but that's absolute justice. Sooo… absolute justice = stupidity? why not just have the foresight to withdraw the marines from said boat, sweep through and quarantine the ship? (Though of course the real reason was to reduce the number of witnesses)
What boat are you talking about?? If you are referring to the Ohara incident, there were no Marines in the boat, but citizens of Ohara and he destroyed it for the fear of a scholar hiding among the citizens, who cannot be identified. Lets suppose Robin had in fact been on that boat and survived the incident, the whole operation would have failed. He was trying to make sure THAT doesn't happen. No blood thirst here, just precaution and well… no morals.
I'm not saying he's for certain bloodthirsty, I'm just saying, he's insane, an idiot (thus, misinformed), or evil and bloodthirsty. Because if he's none of those three he wouldn't be the way he is.
??
@Cyan:
He was dealing with scholars. Not raping, pillaging sailors with guns and swords. Hell, just taking a quick look into that blasted tree to see that they're all there would've sufficed. Or better yet, send someone over to that refugee boat quick and see if a scholar snuck aboard. No need to blow it up without evidence to back up the hunch.
Ohara was a small island. Any of the scholars could have passed information on to one of the villagers. Back in WWII, German scientists were killed and arrested for designing their own versions of nuclear weapontry. The fact is, Oharians were researching shit that also had connections to ressurecting ancient weapons capable of destruction on a global scale and all of this during a time known for piracy. Reading OP up to this point, you know that the pirates don't just fall under the traditional "raping and pillaging". Quite a few of them are actually pretty ambitious (see Blackbeard).
@Cyan:
He was dealing with scholars. Not raping, pillaging sailors with guns and swords. Hell, just taking a quick look into that blasted tree to see that they're all there would've sufficed. Or better yet, send someone over to that refugee boat quick and see if a scholar snuck aboard. No need to blow it up without evidence to back up the hunch.
He even could've quarenteened(Sp I know, I woke up at 3 am… sorry) it and interrogated each of them to see who was a scholar, heck he could've locked them up for two years and spent a long time researching them and making 100% sure and it'd've been better then wiping them out.
The really funny thing is that people are calling the tenryuubit despicable, and yet the marines good and doing the right thing.
How did you make that comparision? The tenryuubito don't do anything for the sakes of others, nor have they done anything themselves to deserve it. They just happen to have famous fathers and take full advantage of it, no matter the consequences that have to be payed by their fellow citizens.
The marines actually have a solid reason behind their behaviour. They don't have the same connection to the pirates as we readers do, so why should they regard them as innocent.
He even could've quarenteened(Sp I know, I woke up at 3 am… sorry) it and interrogated each of them to see who was a scholar, heck he could've locked them up for two years and spent a long time researching them and making 100% sure and it'd've been better then wiping them out.
This being the Marines we're talking about, even I doubt Sengoku would give two years to research something that may or may not happen.
??
the big words: Certain and either… it means that like, He's Bloodthirsty. Or. He's insane. Or. He's an idiot and misinformed.
Oh and I made the comparison seeing as the marines are to stormtroopers as the WG are to the empire.
Watch this:
YamiYamioMiLover, Cyan D. Funk and you other who paint Akainu as evil, I assume you have not read the post of the previous pages or even attempted to think the "accusation" through?^
The definition for the word evil is; morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked (or click here if you don't trust me^). That being said, Akainu is as far from immoral as they come and is indeed a very morally enforced man. He holds views such as, that pirates are bad for the world, that crimes should be punished and that sometimes innocent casualties is needed to prevent something major (the Ohara incident, where he killed a ship of innocent to eliminate the risk of one of the scholars getting away. Scholars I might add, that had researched the forbidden knowledge to ressurect a very dangerous weapon (to Akainu's knowledge, that was their purpose)).
Some of you claim that killing the poor (deserting) marine and attempting to kill the courageous Coby (who violated orders from a supreme officier in the midst of battle) was an act of evil, as was killing Ace and attempting to kill Luffy. I find the claims utterly absurd.
First of all (as many have explained) desertion is a crime sentenced by death by literally every society throughout our history and is almost certainly so in the One Piece universe. Coby was defying a supreme officier and disobeying his order face-to-face in the midst of battle, attempting to stop Akainu. Also a crime, and also sentenced by death, by Coby's manner of defying. Considering either of those acts "evil" is silly. If Akainu hadn't executed (or attempted to, in Coby's case) they would have been taken and shot afterwards, you can be sure of that. Neither is this a sign of the corrupt WG…even Whitebeard punished betrayal with death (desertion can be compared to killing your nakama). So unless you consider Whitebeard worthy of this poll and your votes, I suggest you to take a good long re-think.
Secondly, I'm sure this can't come as a suprise to you, but Ace and Luffy are/were pirates, and both very notorious ones at that. Pirates are not good people, but I fear that most One Piece fans judge pirates by Luffy and his crew and come of with a very biased view - the general pirate is more like Blackbeard than Luffy. And the marines can hardly be blamed for not getting to know every pirate so they know who they really are - hell the pirates choose on their own accord to become pirates (rapists, murderers, pillagers etc.). If they just want to sail and have adventure (i.e. Luffy), they certainly don't have to fly a jolly roger and if they do so, they should be prepared that piracy is a crime sentenced with death.
Killing a notorious pirate who just escaped his execution (Ace), and attempting to deliver the same justice to the man who freed him, an almost equally notorious pirate captain who declared war upon WG (Luffy), was not evil of Akainu. The notion of it is ridiculous.
However, Akainu is on the extreme side, and ruthless and relentless to boot. But he is not evil.
Just my two cents, though this comment is long enough that I almost think it ought to be worth at least a nickel
YamiYaminoMiLover, you need to calm down and write a post that doesn't include the words "idiot" or "insane", or at least make a valid argument for them.
He even could've quarenteened(Sp I know, I woke up at 3 am… sorry) it and interrogated each of them to see who was a scholar, heck he could've locked them up for two years and spent a long time researching them and making 100% sure and it'd've been better then wiping them out.
locking then up wasn't the mission. Making arrest was not the mission. The mission was to erase the island of Ohara and thereby eliminating all those who could read poneglyphs. Robin nearly escaped on one of those refugee ships and was only held back because people thought she was a monster. A normal scholar would've had no problem getting on and blending in with the people thus compromising the mission. Why is Akainu stupid or evil or bloodthirsty for making sure that the mission has a 0% chance of failure. Those are his orders. Had it not been for Aokiji the mission would've been 100% successful but because he allowed robin to get away everything was compromised so those people might as well have not died at all…
deja vu from the 579 thread...you still can't understand that what is necessary isn't always the prettiest thing and the world isn't made of roses. Sometimes bad things have to be done to insure the future for others, you can call it stupid or insane all you want but history is littered with these kinds of happenings Axis, Allies, Communist, Republics, every world power that exist today has engaged in acts of war that would be seen as horrendous but its only because they were done that you can live the life you do now...
I'm not saying for the umpteenth time, he is definitely evil, just there is something wrong with him, whether he is evil, or he's imbalanced, or lacking in intelligence I just don't know.
I lean towards the following explanation. I think he's just like his name implies: a Dog. In this case a vicious though otherwise braindead Doberman who is fiercely loyal to his owner and would jump off a cliff if he was told too, unfortunately I can't withdraw my vote as I've come to this conclusion after seeing the newest page.
That being said, Akainu is as far from immoral as they come and is indeed a very morally enforced man. He holds views such as, that pirates are bad for the world, that crimes should be punished and that sometimes innocent casualties is needed to prevent something major (the Ohara incident, where he killed a ship of innocent to eliminate the risk of one of the scholars getting away. Scholars I might add, that had researched the forbidden knowledge to ressurect a very dangerous weapon (to Akainu's knowledge, that was their purpose)).
No matter what the cause, killing of innocent cannot be justified on moral grounds. I agree he was trying to eliminate a risk and his actions would have successfully brought "justice" to the "evil doers" had AaKiji not interfered. His actions can be justified on grounds of Justice itself. But to say he is not immoral is wrong IMO.
I agree with the rest of the post.
Anyway, I'd like to apologise for my, single mindedness, repetition, abrasive attitude, anger and so on and so forth. I woke up at 3 this morning and it's now half past ten… and yeah, anyway it's not the thread, OP's ooor anything elses fault... so I'm sorry for my unforunate angry repetitions.
Anyway, I'd like to apologise for my, single mindedness, repetition, abrasive attitude, anger and so on and so forth. I woke up at 3 this morning and it's now half past ten… and yeah, anyway it's not the thread, OP's ooor anything elses fault... so I'm sorry for my unforunate angry repetitions.
… good 3 in the morning to ya... matey!!
No I meant half past ten at night… which is like... too long for my brain to function without rest :L. anyway, I'm sorry for being rude to you especially kmo
No I meant half past ten at night… which is like... too long for my brain to function without rest :L. anyway, I'm sorry for being rude to you especially kmo
No sweat man. I never thought you were being rude in the first place…