@lemony86:

It's not the island where Akaino and Aokiji fought… unless they fought 4 years ago.

It is possible that the 4 years was a mistranslation - though personally I imagine that the island inhabitable state has something to do with Vegapunk and/or the dragons.

@†Sanke†:

Are they [G-5 Marines] criminals recruited by Akainu for the sake of 'Justice' perhaps?

Sakazuki recruiting criminals as Marines? :blink:

^Considering the very palpable loathing and disgust Sakazuki feels for scums who don't follow the laws, I really don't see him doing that.

@Ryuksgelus:

What do you mean no alternative? Plants, weather, and tech make as good alternatives as the Darkness fruit or Fishman Karate.

While there are alternative methods to effectively counter particular Devil Fruit abilities (e.g. Crocodile's weakness to liquid), there are no substitute to Haki overall per se, as the potential of Haki extends far beyond simply allowing you to touch a Logia-user's real body. For instance, the capacity of Kenbunshoku Haki (i.e. the ability to sense the presence of others and premonition) can't really be replaced: no matter if your fighting style is centered around Plants like Usopp's, or utilizes advanced technology like Franky's, your overall combat ability would be increased with it.

Note that I'm not arguing that alternative methods to deal with particular abilities is unsatisfactory, or that everyone ought to learn Haki: my point was specifically that everyone benefits from Haki, no matter how they fight.

@JonesDking:

Why arent we complaining that sanji needs flames to compete evenly,or that Zoro needs upgraded techs to compete evenly?

Because Sanji's polished legs and Zoro's further refined swordsmanship are simply methods to improve their attack power and utility with their chosen fighting style. Luffy, on the other hand, apparently can't keep up with his first mate and cook by simply developing his own combat techniques and natural physique, but needs a special ability that exclusively enhances his physical ability. A bleak and dismal prospect for me, though some people seemingly view it in a positive light (i.e. "Gear Second is Luffy's new base!") - which, quite frankly, is beyond me.

Ideally, Luffy's natural physical ability should be comparable to his peers and opponents, and with Gear Second he should hold a physical superiority. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of Gear Second and puts Luffy, whose herculean physical ability has been highlighted ever since the story began, in a very disparaging light.

I don't expect you to share my sentiment, but I (as Coruscation) am honestly perplexed that many people find it hard to even understand our view.

@Urouge:

The problem with the actual points is that it sparks up that "who's stronger" debate, which we should all know is taboo by now.

My purpose was solely to voice my apprehension where Luffy's Gear Second seems to be heading, and the implication it carries, not to instigate a "who's stronger" debate. I provided context to make my stance easier to comprehend, and I apologize if that brought the angle in my post too close to that dreaded ground.

EDIT:
@Nycprodigy:

wtf is this conversation. The topic isn't about who's stronger but Powerup predictions geez.

^The topic is "Powerup Predictions and Discussion" and that ought to include Gear Second and any debates around it.

@Pharier:

I hope we get to see the weakling duo + Mansopp and Franky (Usopp has graduated of course lol)

^Personally, I don't expect there to be any "weaklings" in the crew anymore. There will be the Monster Trio, followed by Franky and then everyone else on the same general level, all excelling in different areas and situations.

@Urouge:

Of course he [Luffy] should train to fold it into his repertoire as cleanly and effortlessly as possible. Just like Sanji should do with Diable Jambe and Zoro with swordsmanship. I doubt there will be anyone on the crew at this point who fights with their basic physical strength.

Considering that they, presumably, don't have any physical enhancing abilities, how do they not use their basic physical ability when they fight?

Luffy's Gear Second are fundamentally different from the Zoro's swords and Sanji's Diable Jambe though. It's nature is a plain boost to his physical capacity, and thus ought to propel him above his peers in that aspect, rather than simply compensate for Zoro's swords or Sanji's flame kicks: the augmented attack power Luffy receives from his stretching momentum does that already.

I would have been happy if Luffy had taken a page from Zoro and Sanji, and developed combat techniques (e.g. Rokushiki (not necessarily them specifically, but similarly unique techniques)), rather than a plain physical enhancing "mode".

@Icefae:

The above page and a few others throughout the chapter seem to imply that all Gear 2nd does is advance Luffy's body to the point where he can use Soru. […] Does Luffy really even need to use Gear 2nd to use these abilities anymore?

Gear Second increases Luffy's physical capacity: he becomes stronger and significantly faster and thus he was able to overcome his lack of skill and use Soru before the time skip.

Though we have yet to see it, I'm certain Luffy can use Soru without physical boosts after the time skip (would be disappointing if he could not).

@huron:

so do u think Sanji and Zori are haki users now,or not?

I certainly think so. If they can't utilize Haki, but still remain comparable to Luffy, it would suggest that they has a significant physical edge over Luffy (including Gears), or, alternatively, was outstripped by Luffy during the time-skip. Personally, I can't see Oda going either route, especially as there is no reason why they can't have learned it during the time skip.

Besides, I can't really see Luffy spending the next 2-4 years teaching them the trick (it took Luffy, an alleged Haki prodigy, one and a half year of personal tutelage from the Dark King himself to get the forms down).

@mallow:

Well, Kizaru and Whitebeard both gain obvious physical boosts through their DFs, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

^Probably because neither Edward nor Borsalino gained any "obvious" physical boosts through their Devil Fruits. Edward had gargantuan attack power through his quake ability, but it didn't change his physical ability. And while Borsalino can supplement his speed with his fruit (e.g. his kicking technique), it doesn't change his physical speed.

@ponx:

But at least not nearly all of the main characters are suddenly able to do it. […] Because it, again, means that only Luffy can pull this sort of power-ups.

Yah. Only Luffy are able to use Gear Second, and only he (apparently) needs the physical boost it provides to compete. How exactly does that make it more appealing?

@Ryuksgelus:

Jinbe has been dealing with them for a lot longer. G2 is Luffy's shortcut making up for his lack of combat experience.

Though I disliked Gear Second since it's introduction, I found it more acceptable when Luffy first used it to overcome the daunting threat CP9 represented. It promoted Luffy's unyielding strength of will, an act of pushing himself far beyond possible limits at the expense of his body. And at that time, as you point out, Luffy was still a new rookie, up against daunting adversaries whose prowess was well established in the One Piece universe. As we have moved on, however, I'm disappointed that Luffy, no longer a rookie considering his two years of personal tutelage from the late Pirate King's "Partner" himself under his belt, still relies on a shortcut for a boost beyond his natural physical ability: why is Luffy, the protagonist, the only one (beyond the New Fishman Pirates) who can't rely on his natural physical prowess?

Still, Gear Second would be more tolerable for me if Luffy's, the full-body brawler, natural physical ability matched his peers/opponents, and with Gear Second, he gained a notable physical superiority. That is to say, the fact that Luffy are able to utilize a physical boost shouldn't mean that his natural physique are lacking: that defeats the purpose of the power-up in the first place, and only makes Luffy look bad (i.e. he needs the boost just to physically keep up).

The problem is that the boost from the Gear Second (at least pre-TS) is far too big. For instance, against Marigold and Sandersonia, he went from being trounced in base to doing the trouncing himself with Gear Second. Therefor, if the magnitude of the boost remain unchanged, his physical edge would be too significant, if his natural physical prowess was comparable to his opponents/peers.

^That being said, though I'm currently pessimistic regarding Gear Second and it's significance, it's certainly possible that Oda will make it work out well enough. The best option I can see, aside from removing it completely, would be to substantially lessen the boost Gear Second provides.

@Ryuksgelus:

Nobody including [Jacoobus] saw an ear twitching and assumed it must be Haki, all in retrospect.

That is not a very good argument. What does it matter if nobody thought it was Haki back then, or in any of the other instances that we now can infer, in retrospect, that Haki was probably used? It's called foreshadowing; establishing the practise of Haki through subtle hints, even though we readers knew little and less of the concept at that point.

I'm pretty sure that there were very few (if any) who presumed that Shanks used CoC to scare of the seaking with a glare when they first read the opening chapter of One Piece. Yet looking back now, it's painfully obvious that he did.

@Ferdallstar:

I was trying to say that the frist time [Galdino] fought the Straw Hats he depended on his Devil Fruit powers to win the battle for him.

While Galdino certainly rely on his ability to create and manipulate wax, it's still his own skill and talent that he rely on. It's no different than CP9 relying on Rokushiki or Zoro relying on his swordsmanship - every character relies on their skill set.

@Saturnchild:

[Magma] hotter then the fire Ace could create since he didn't seem to have trained his powers much

If you're referring to Akainu's superiority over Ace, it was not because his magma was hotter that he burned Ace: it was because his magma could "consume" Ace's fire.

Akainu: […] You are mere "fire"… whilst I am "magma", with the power to consume even fire itself!! // My ability is a natural enemy of your own, boy!!!

We don't know whether Akainu's magma was hotter than Ace's fire or not.

@Saturnchild:

However as we saw Nico Robin who is not an Admiral's level managed to still use her powers under the ocean for a few second without much ill effects.

If I recall, Oda said in an SBS during EL that Devil Fruit users aren't affected by the ocean unless more than 50% of their body is submerged.

Now, it's probable that the reason Robin could (briefly) spawn limbs outside the bubble is because she herself was safe and sound inside the bubble.

@Vanessa:

we see characters get stabbed and sliced through all the time and soon after a scar or even blood isn't shown.

Oda leaves characters bruised, and/or bloodied, to convey that a character actually was wounded though, and those signs of injury don't disappear within seconds/minutes.
For example, even Whitebeard himself evidently couldn't heal, and was drawn with his injuries, small and big alike, throughout the war.

With that in mind, the characters ability to soldier on with serious injuries should imo be attributed to superhuman endurance, rather than regenerative powers.

In Akainu's case, despite Vista almost cutting his head of [[URL="http://manga.bleachexile.com/one-piece-chapter-574-page-7.html"]1], he didn't have any sign of injury in the following panel(s) [[URL="http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7510/akainui.png"]2, 3 (Chapter 575, page 4-5)]. Which suggest that he wasn't injured at all - at least to me, and evidently others as well.

@Vanessa:

With Borsalino, Newgate didn't seem to be utilizing Ambition against him any of the times he attacked with the bisento so that's covered. Unless you can somehow prove Newgate was using the Armament Aspect against lightman you've got nothing.

CoA (or Haki overall for that matter) is not always specifically highlighted though, and I personally suspect that Oda, through his initial confirmation when Haki was used, tried to convey that the top tiers consistently used Haki throughout the war - even when it wasn't directly pointed out to us.
Consequently, since I see absolutely no reason why Whitebeard shouldn't have empowered his attack with CoA against Kizaru, I think it's a reasonably assumption that he did.

@Vanessa:

Logia-type Power Users are in the elemental state by default. It's what we've been shown throughout the comic.

While it may be the true for battle-ready logia-users, it's not generally the case. Specifically, rather than being in their elemental state by default, logia-users, who have reached a certain level of expertise, can activate their intangibility through reflex, and thus, enter their elemental state.

At any rate… While brennen is right that we can only make (educated ) guesses at this point, since much of Haki remains unknown to us, I think it's plausible that logia-users can use CoA to reinforce their intangibility. Specifically, they can use their own CoA to suppress the CoA in their opponents attacks, and thus, retain their intangibility against CoA empowered attacks - to varying degrees. Which would explain Whitebeard's, Marco's and Rayleigh's inconsistent success to bypass the Admirals intagnability.

@Vanessa:

To me it'd actually be worse to imply that those who fail could never have the capability of attaining it.

You disagree with me here, but agree with me when I explain how I interpret Rayleigh's words…?

The way I see it, the capability those who fail lack is sufficient determination and motivation/ambition/will to awaken Haki - and they can't attain it in only a lifetime.

Because "personality molds" (awful way to put it, but I can't think of any better way) and how people are influenced while growing up shape the man or woman we become, and actively changing the self we became is hard (and requires a motivated/ambitious mind to do in the first place). Hence, the process of gaining sufficient determination to awaken Haki could be too long for only a lifetime for most people in One Piece.