If Doflamingo is a string man, I'm expecting Mr. Oda level creativity when it comes to their use. Things like a string net or string whip or something:ermm:
Chapter 560 "The Prisoners of Impel Down" Discussion
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I'm sure we'll get to see that in the Luffy vs Doflamingo arc in the NW :)
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There was chance back in auction house and one more now, I doubt they will ever fight, luffy doesn't have to fight or befriend every single shichibukai.
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There was chance back in auction house and one more now, I doubt they will ever fight, luffy doesn't have to fight or befriend every single shichibukai.
How was there a chance back then? Doflamingo wasn't anywhere near the Auction House; he was on the phone with Disco, sitting on some tropical island. He wasn't anywhere on Sabaody.
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@Fire Fist:
How was there a chance back then? Doflamingo wasn't anywhere near the Auction House; he was on the phone with Disco, sitting on some tropical island. He wasn't anywhere on Sabaody.
There wasn't, but I wanna see him sitting around like he was on that island with some new diamond bling in the upcoming chapters. This war is Dofla's vacation
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@Usopp:
Oda wouldn't be the first one to have a character who uses strings in battle. There was a guy in Rurouni Kenshin who did that, and probably a couple of other series as well.
As far as I remember the guy that used strings in RK was filler. Plus Oda has already used someone in OP who uses strings, I think it was one of Enel's priests.
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@Kairouseki:
As far as I remember the guy that used strings in RK was filler. Plus Oda has already used someone in OP who uses strings, I think it was one of Enel's priests.
Yeah Shura used strings. But I'm pretty sure that was string made from solid clouds or something. On the subject of string users in manga though, there's Walter from Hellsing also.
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i really hope buggy will own doflamingo. He is just the perfect oponent for him, maybe he will stab him in the back like he did with zoro once :D
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i really hope buggy will own doflamingo. He is just the perfect oponent for him, maybe he will stab him in the back like he did with zoro once :D
Buggy will take on doflamingo and mihawk both at the same time and own them.
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i really hope, we can see a double page with joze punchin doflamingo straight in his ugly face
but if joze gets his ass, beatin..it means we are at the breakin point, which means…the marine are going to win^^
(sorry about my bad english)
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No chapter this week, let the is Ivankov powerful or not debate begin.
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@Kairouseki:
As far as I remember the guy that used strings in RK was filler. Plus Oda has already used someone in OP who uses strings, I think it was one of Enel's priests.
no, he was not. He was one of the bad guys of the final story arc, he was involved in like 3 major battles. There was no filler in the manga anyway.
He predates Hellsing as well.
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I don't really remember the last arc actually . You didn't specify that it was in the manga and the filler guy in the anime was the only one that I remembered.
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@Fiasco.:
No chapter this week, let the is Ivankov powerful or not debate begin.
I would have thought that being able to intimidate Crocodile, wound Magellan, and face Kuma would have made it clear that Ivankov is very powerful.
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I would have thought that being able to intimidate Crocodile, wound Magellan, and face Kuma would have made it clear that Ivankov is very powerful.
The absence of a chapter makes any and all evidence inconclusive, and instantly forgotten in public memory.
Starvation for entertaining discussion often does that.
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I'm just glad to see Smoker getting owned by Hancock.
Love you Hancock!
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I still don't understand why there are so many people hating on Ace. People he fucked up and knows it yet his crewmates don't care and only care about saveing him. Now his beloved nakama/Brother are fighting to the death before his eyes and he is powerless to help.
What do you want him to act like?
A tough guy?Yell at the world government about the beating they are going to get?
People who say he is annoying now? Is robin annoying she cried and yelled don't save me?
Ace act was selfish in a small way but he was only trying to protect the pride of his crew. Also when he heard the fact that Blackbeard was also going to try and kill his little brother would you have liked Ace if he did not try to stop blackbeard?
Ace character overall i feel is fine he is a typical cool older bro. His Devil fruit usage was one fireball after another but whatever. We are starting to see a little depth to his character at least.
If Whitebeard can believe in Ace why can't you?
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I'm still impressed by Croc… Where did he get the power to took a full blow of Jozu who showed the most impressive pure power feats so far. Croc was Koed by "weak" Luffy way back.
And Diamond is harrder than rubber.
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IP toughened Croc up in ways he'll bury deep deep into his subconcious … :ninja:
Poor Croc
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I still don't understand why there are so many people hating on Ace. People he fucked up and knows it yet his crewmates don't care and only care about saveing him. Now his beloved nakama/Brother are fighting to the death before his eyes and he is powerless to help.
What do you want him to act like?
A tough guy?Yell at the world government about the beating they are going to get?
People who say he is annoying now? Is robin annoying she cried and yelled don't save me?
Ace act was selfish in a small way but he was only trying to protect the pride of his crew. Also when he heard the fact that Blackbeard was also going to try and kill his little brother would you have liked Ace if he did not try to stop blackbeard?
Ace character overall i feel is fine he is a typical cool older bro. His Devil fruit usage was one fireball after another but whatever. We are starting to see a little depth to his character at least.
If Whitebeard can believe in Ace why can't you?
Totally agree with your post. Only the last part is kinda funky.. we have to take over the belief of a character in the manga?
If Buggy can believe he can take over the world, why can't you?
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I'm still impressed by Croc… Where did he get the power to took a full blow of Jozu who showed the most impressive pure power feats so far. Croc was Koed by "weak" Luffy way back.
And Diamond is harrder than rubber.
think about it
if u throw something heavy at sand in the beach what will happen
most of the sand will scatter away
if u throw something heavier this time what will happen
more sand will scatter away
so it doesn't matter how hard you hit croc he will have minimum damage -
I still don't understand why there are so many people hating on Ace. People he fucked up and knows it yet his crewmates don't care and only care about saveing him. Now his beloved nakama/Brother are fighting to the death before his eyes and he is powerless to help.
What do you want him to act like?
A tough guy?Yell at the world government about the beating they are going to get?
People who say he is annoying now? Is robin annoying she cried and yelled don't save me?
Ace act was selfish in a small way but he was only trying to protect the pride of his crew. Also when he heard the fact that Blackbeard was also going to try and kill his little brother would you have liked Ace if he did not try to stop blackbeard?
Ace character overall i feel is fine he is a typical cool older bro. His Devil fruit usage was one fireball after another but whatever. We are starting to see a little depth to his character at least.
If Whitebeard can believe in Ace why can't you?
Thank You!
These badass-demands are even more annoying than a Jane Austen novel and I forced myself through two of them!
I do not understand how You can follow One Piece and complain of someone showing weakness.
How did you badass-fanatics made it through Luffy's tears when Shanks lost his arm and gave him the starwhat? Through Zoro's tears asking Kuina's father for her katana and his tears after the fight with Hawkeye? Through Sanji's tears when he left Zeff and the others (and just a short reminder, no one was “badass” in that scene)? Through Nami's whole arc? Through Chopper's tears on various occasions? Through Vivi's desperate tears on various occasions? Through Luffy's tears when Usopp left the ship? The list goes on and on… Really, I do not get this. Have You failed to see that One Piece is not a “badass-manga”? Some characters may have their “badass-moments”, but on the whole?
And also, could someone finally clear me up what “emo” means? Some time ago I thought it was just a specific style of clothing and music-preference, then it changed into people who like to cut themselves and now it seems to apply to every person who shows even slightest notion of being a human being. Please, enlighten me! -
Thank You!
These badass-demands are even more annoying than a Jane Austen novel and I forced myself through two of them!
I do not understand how You can follow One Piece and complain of someone showing weakness.
How did you badass-fanatics made it through Luffy's tears when Shanks lost his arm and gave him the starwhat? Through Zoro's tears asking Kuina's father for her katana and his tears after the fight with Hawkeye? Through Sanji's tears when he left Zeff and the others (and just a short reminder, no one was “badass” in that scene)? Through Nami's whole arc? Through Chopper's tears on various occasions? Through Vivi's desperate tears on various occasions? Through Luffy's tears when Usopp left the ship? The list goes on and on… Really, I do not get this. Have You failed to see that One Piece is not a “badass-manga”? Some characters may have their “badass-moments”, but on the whole?
And also, could someone finally clear me up what “emo” means? Some time ago I thought it was just a specific style of clothing and music-preference, then it changed into people who like to cut themselves and now it seems to apply to every person who shows even slightest notion of being a human being. Please, enlighten me!Amen. I don't like it when an author gives a character some actual, you know, depth and the fanbase complains.
this is like in Hellsing Volume 9 when Alucard cried. Hirano finally took a character who appeared two-dimensional and gave him a third dimension… and all the fans could do was complain... it was like "Jeez, let the guy give some character development..."
Obviously, since Ace has such a big fanbase and all they'd ever seen of him was being Badass in Alabasta, him showing Weakness now is something they don't like...
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Amen. I don't like it when an author gives a character some actual, you know, depth and the fanbase complains.
this is like in Hellsing Volume 9 when Alucard cried. Hirano finally took a character who appeared two-dimensional and gave him a third dimension… and all the fans could do was complain... it was like "Jeez, let the guy give some character development..."
Obviously, since Ace has such a big fanbase and all they'd ever seen of him was being Badass in Alabasta, him showing Weakness now is something they don't like...
Hej, really nice to see, that we absolutely agree on something.
Maybe someone should write a letter to Oda and suggest that he should replace all characters with robots or cyborgs that are like the current Kuma. (Of course not like Franky, I know some of you must hate him, he gets emotional on EVERY occasion, right?) All he needs to do is make them really violent and then they can just beat the s*** out of each other without any sense and without every even slightly mentioning something like the “condition humaine”.
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I still don't understand why there are so many people hating on Ace. People he fucked up and knows it yet his crewmates don't care and only care about saveing him. Now his beloved nakama/Brother are fighting to the death before his eyes and he is powerless to help.
What do you want him to act like?
A tough guy?Yell at the world government about the beating they are going to get?
People who say he is annoying now? Is robin annoying she cried and yelled don't save me?
Ace act was selfish in a small way but he was only trying to protect the pride of his crew. Also when he heard the fact that Blackbeard was also going to try and kill his little brother would you have liked Ace if he did not try to stop blackbeard?
Ace character overall i feel is fine he is a typical cool older bro. His Devil fruit usage was one fireball after another but whatever. We are starting to see a little depth to his character at least.
If Whitebeard can believe in Ace why can't you?
I agree.
Ace is acting out of desperation for the losses that will happen (or are happening in front of him), and probably a little ashamed of himself for not listening everyone and running off.
Guess people expect their favorite characters to be tough ^^; -
Say, is there a chapter this week?
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Dunno if trolling, but might as well answer.
There's no chapter this week, according to AoHige, spoilers will come at Monday of next week or Sunday of this week.
Either ways, no chapter this week.Edit: Also, if not trolling, let me tell you you are the 10928i30123912045912049120421901249º user of this forum asking this.
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Sorry. Did a quick look and didn't see anything, thought I'd ask.. and thanks by the way.
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Sorry. Did a quick look and didn't see anything, thought I'd ask.. and thanks by the way.
Appearently you didn't look at the first post of this thread.
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IP toughened Croc up in ways he'll bury deep deep into his subconcious … :ninja:
Poor Croc
It's the "unconscious".
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Sorry. Did a quick look and didn't see anything, thought I'd ask.. and thanks by the way.
No problem, bro
Altough you should at least look at the first pages before posting. -
IP toughened Croc up in ways he'll bury deep deep into his subconcious … :ninja:
Poor Croc
Getting ass-reamed 16-hours a day will make you tougher.
Croc can take any damage now that he has butthurt haki.
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I still don't understand why there are so many people hating on Ace. People he fucked up and knows it yet his crewmates don't care and only care about saveing him. Now his beloved nakama/Brother are fighting to the death before his eyes and he is powerless to help.
What do you want him to act like?
A tough guy?Because, Ace being a D, brother of Luffy, and the son of Roger, we expect him to behave much like Luffy, Whitebeard, and Roger.
He acts how a normal person would behave in his situation.
But the anticipation cast on him is not "normal person", but as one of the greats.Him being presented as a mundane mortal is fine if you want to put yourself in his shoes.
But Ace isn't in a position for such luxuary. We EXPECT him to behave not as a mundane mortal, but rather on the scope of a legendary pirate.according to AoHige, spoilers will come at Monday of next week or Sunday of this week.
Either ways, no chapter this week.No, early spoilers was the last chapter due to Jump being released two days early.
The next chapter should be on normal schedule (after this week's absence), Next Tuesday~Wednesday. -
Because, being a D, brother of Luffy, and the son of Roger, we expect him to behave much like Luffy, Whitebeard, and Roger.
He acts how a normal person would behave in his situation.
But the anticipation cast on him is not "normal person", but as one of the greats.Ace is twenty years old. He's only been away from from home for three years. He's really young. Yeah he's strong but it takes time to grow emotionally.
Literally everyone he loves (WB+crew, Garp, Luffy, other NW pirate friends) is risking their lives to save him. He knows he could lose them all and it would be all his fault.
Luffy cried like a baby when Kuma sent his crew away. He's seventeen. All the rest of the D's, other than Luffy and Ace, are pretty old (possibly with the exception of Rouge. but she's a woman so she's automatically amazing stuff). They're had time to mature and live and learn. It's kind of unfair to compare them all to Ace and Luffy.
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Ace is twenty years old. He's only been away from from home for three years. He's really young. Yeah he's strong but it takes time to grow emotionally.
Literally everyone he loves (WB+crew, Garp, Luffy, other NW pirate friends) is risking their lives to save him. He knows he could lose them all and it would be all his fault.
Luffy cried like a baby when Kuma sent his crew away. He's seventeen. All the rest of the D's, other than Luffy and Ace, are pretty old. They're had time to mature and live and learn. It's kind of unfair to compare them all to Ace and Luffy.
Ok, perhaps you didn't understand my statement.
It's kinda pointless to repeat myself.You are STILL looking at him as a "normal, mundane, human being".
He is not in the position to enjoy such luxury, as the expectation cast on him is very…. jesus, I'm still repeating myself.And no, Luffy acted in very much how we expect him to. Ace is the only one who has not.
It is not unfair at all, as the only other person to compare him to, Luffy, has lived up to expectations.
And his age means nothing to us, this isn't real world nor is it shoujo manga where fangirls swoon him for being oh so emotional and complex.
(no intentional offense to Naruto ) -
Sorry to say, but I don't think Luffy would act much different then Ace in this situation. Remember how he was when Kuma scattered the crew? I'd expect something like that. True, Luffy would probably struggle more, but it'd all be useless with those seastone handcuffs, since he'd be helpless.
I think people are confusing Ace's helpless situation with bad character traits, not that they aren't there. Ace can't "live up to expectations" because I'm sure those expectations are to "kick ass and be epic" and you can't do that when you've got a slab of devil fruit kryptonite on your back.
So, with no way to fight, Ace turns to bargaining, pleading, yelling, begging, and anything he can do just by talking, which can come off as fairly lame, but I think people don't understand that a guy like Ace doesn't care about his dignity when it comes to helping his crew. That's where I think the annoyance of Ace lies, he's not "being cool" but rather he's sacrificing himself to stop an event that frankly, all of us want to see, because unlike the One Piece fans Ace doesn't want Whitebeard to die and doesn't know that all his friends including Oars will probably survive this.
Frankly, I think Oda should have given Ace more time back in Alabasta, it clearly wasn't enough to win people over like other characters. It just was bland to hear Ace always beat Luffy when later we saw Crocodile do it with bloody results or Ao Kiji do it so effectively. I was semi-won over to idea of Ace being cool by his great display of skill against Blackbeard, yet a dozen haters complain that all Ace did was "thrown fire around!" Still, all that does is show Ace can fight, character wise he doesn't stick out as much as some. But now here I ask, what more can we expect Ace to do? Except for talking, the only other thing he can do is bite someone on the ankles.
Do you want him to "act cool," and smile like Gol. D Roger did? Cause I don't think Roger's crew was in danger when he got executed, heck from recent chapters it looks like he planned the whole thing and was probably smiling cause he got his way. That's a bit of an unfair standard here when things are not at all like Ace wants.
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And no, Luffy acted in very much how we expect him to. Ace is the only one who has not.
It is not unfair at all, as the only other person to compare him to, Luffy, has lived up to expectations.Okay I may be a bit confused because I had no idea that people (I assume you mean the fans) had so many expectations for Ace when he's had like nearly no character development until this arc. I mean all I got from Ace before the current storyline is that he loves his brother, likes to show off, is a pretty strong guy and likes to steal food.
And I still think it's unfair to compare him to Luffy since we got to see Luffy's character slowly build from the beginning of the story, compared to Ace's rare and far between bits and pieces.
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Because, Ace being a D, brother of Luffy, and the son of Roger, we expect him to behave much like Luffy, Whitebeard, and Roger.
He acts how a normal person would behave in his situation.
But the anticipation cast on him is not "normal person", but as one of the greats.Him being presented as a mundane mortal is fine if you want to put yourself in his shoes.
But Ace isn't in a position for such luxuary. We EXPECT him to behave not as a mundane mortal, but rather on the scope of a legendary pirate.Not really sure what group of people is represented by Your “we”, but could You try to explain why You want Ace to fulfil these expectations? Is it because he has symbolic value for You?
For me, even though One Piece of course has symbolic connotations, it was always about the characters. And for characters to be more than just a symbol, they have to have edges, weaknesses and so forth. That's why I really enjoyed when Luffy told Ace that all this pirate stuff is meaningless because his brother's life is at stake. One of the greatest moments in One Piece so far.
I think it has to do with modern-day society that expects us to behave in certain patterns that require us to act more like symbols of some unattainable ideals and not like sometimes troubled individuals. Therefore people look for those unrealistic qualities in fictitious characters. Let us just hope that these “requirements” stay fictitious. I for one find such characters too unbelievable. If one already has a fantasy-environment that defies reality then at least give me some characters I can relate to.
Interesting how even in the old epics the heroes were allowed to be “emo”. I mean, heck, the Greek gods are ALL anthropomorphic. -
Ok, perhaps you didn't understand my statement.
It's kinda pointless to repeat myself.You are STILL looking at him as a "normal, mundane, human being".
He is not in the position to enjoy such luxury, as the expectation cast on him is very…. jesus, I'm still repeating myself.And no, Luffy acted in very much how we expect him to. Ace is the only one who has not.
It is not unfair at all, as the only other person to compare him to, Luffy, has lived up to expectations.
And his age means nothing to us, this isn't real world nor is it shoujo manga where girls swoon him for being oh so emotional and complex.Agreed. Luffy may have thrown a little tantrum, but the closest people to him dissappeared, and were quite possibly sent to their death in front of his eyes. His complete defeat was predicted by Moria, and came to pass at that moment. And yet at his worst moment, he overcame the overwhelming odds and did something completely unbelievable in a very short time. A moment of weakness and despair however, does not equate to the utter resignation Ace exhibits.
However, this to me is completely appropriate. See, what the difference between Luffy and Ace exhibits is that, even though the One Piece world expects greatness from Ace, and he is the continuation of the former Pirate King's bloodline, he does not have what it takes to become the next one. Whitebeard saw in a short moment with Luffy what I believe are the qualities he has been looking for in Ace. Ace clearly has an enourmous natural talent, however it is also clear that he does not have the necessary spirit and inner strength to become that which WB desires.
Maybe Ace was at one point very similar to what Luffy is like now, and Luffy imbibed all of those good qualities from his brother, who he so admired. Yet in his travels, Ace's personality gradually changed. He became too dependent of his benefactor WB, or maybe he never recovered from his utter defeat, like Luffy did. I mentioned this in another thread, but I think that Luffy is still reeling from his earlier failure in a psychological level, and that's what is preventing him from surpassing his current level of strength. But soon enough Luffy's inner strength is going to show when he recovers the self-confidence that he lost when he was defeated by Kuma. This is going to drive him forward to become stronger than his brother, who I believe has lost his foremost ambition, which was once to become the Pirate King as well. The reason why I think WB is babysitting Ace is because he believes that once Ace is capable of outgrowing his current crew's ambition, he will finally strive for the ultimate title and achieve it.
I however, believe that Ace has reached his peak, and his mental strength and ambition are never going to reach the heights that Luffy's ambition require. This is the reason why Luffy has the qualities that will allow him to become the PK in the future, and Ace does not. Something that I also believe will be one of WB's last realizations, and is something he already suspects, to a sufficient degree that it merits the assignment of his strongest bodyguard.
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UsoppSpell, I don't agree.
If Luffy was in the same situation, with his friends all coming to save him, fighting against Sengoku, Kizaru, Kuma, etc etc, Luffy would be afraid of them dying.
He doesn't care about himself, like Ace doesn't.He would probably give up like Ace on the last chapter sooner or later, and wait for the first thing to come.
It doesn't matter how consistent it is, though, Ace is fucking annoying.
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@wiee?:
UsoppSpell, I don't agree.
If Luffy was in the same situation, with his friends all coming to save him, fighting against Sengoku, Kizaru, Kuma, etc etc, Luffy would be afraid of them dying.
He doesn't care about himself, like Ace doesn't.He would probably give up like Ace on the last chapter sooner or later, and wait for the first thing to come.
It doesn't matter how consistent it is, though, Ace is fucking annoying.
You're posing a situation which is currently completely out of their league. I hardly believe that when Luffy's crew can fight on par with guys of that caliber he will be whining and telling them to back off because he's not worth it. Ace has put his ambition's value under the one's from his crewmates. His self-esteem, his ego is shattered due to his failure, something that would not happen with Luffy, and it isn't happenning now. He values his nakama's lives, but he would also value their desires. And if they want to go out of their way to save them, he would never complain against their wishes.
I am certain Luffy would not be as conflicted with the outcome of the events. He would have struggled harder, and he would not have questioned the decisions of his crewmates and friends. Furthermore, when Luffy has lived and grown as much as Ace, do you really expect him to go all emotional? Hell, I expect that Luffy will already be PK by the time he is Ace's age, and I sure as hell don't expect the PK to become a whine machine when he is captured.
It's not really something we can argue, but I can say that I do not believe that Luffy would act the way Ace is acting.
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Luffy would be acting the same way ace is right now. When kuma send of the SH at least luffy could hope they were alive. Right now ace seeing the people he care for die one after another and yes he also like the fodder pirates.
If ace gets free which i hope happen we would most likely see him kick some ass. But right now there's nothing he can do. At least luffy could fight back and try to save his crew , ace can't even try because of how things are with him.
@usoppspell how would luffy struggled more ? what your saying make no sense there nothing ace can do now If luffy crew was face with a admiral and luffy was lock up you can bet he would tell them to run .
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Luffy would be acting the same way ace is right now. When kuma send of the SH at least luffy could hope they were alive. Right now ace seeing the people he care for die one after another and yes he also like the fodder pirates.
If ace gets free which i hope happen we would most likely see him kick some ass. But right now there's nothing he can do. At least luffy could fight back and try to save his crew , ace can't even try because of how things are with him.
Let's be brief.
Luffy would not question his nakama's desires.
Luffy would never consider himself a failure not worth saving.
Luffy would be smiling because he would believe in his companions' strength if they were at the level of the commanders.
Luffy would be smiling as he did in Logue Town becuase death does not scare him.Ace… well we know what he's acting like. Resignation is not the Luffy way. Period.
Luffy is not currently punishing himself constantly for letting his nakama's slip away. He is focusing on getting stronger, moving on and fulfilling his most immediate desire, to save his brother. Ace went crazy for several months and tried killing a man 100+ times just for hurting his ego, something that Luffy would never do. Remember that WB didn't kill a single of his nakama, he just took them in. So how lame is that? Just because he got defeated he went all homicidal and crazy. Do you really see Luffy acting this way, or in a way resembling what we have observed from Ace thus far?
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Agreed. Luffy may have thrown a little tantrum, but the closest people to him dissappeared, and were quite possibly sent to their death in front of his eyes. His complete defeat was predicted by Moria, and came to pass at that moment. And yet at his worst moment, he overcame the overwhelming odds and did something completely unbelievable in a very short time. A moment of weakness and despair however, does not equate to the utter resignation Ace exhibits.
However, this to me is completely appropriate. See, what the difference between Luffy and Ace exhibits is that, even though the One Piece world expects greatness from Ace, and he is the continuation of the former Pirate King's bloodline, he does not have what it takes to become the next one. Whitebeard saw in a short moment with Luffy what I believe are the qualities he has been looking for in Ace. Ace clearly has an enourmous natural talent, however it is also clear that he does not have the necessary spirit and inner strength to become that which WB desires.
Maybe Ace was at one point very similar to what Luffy is like now, and Luffy imbibed all of those good qualities from his brother, who he so admired. Yet in his travels, Ace's personality gradually changed. He became too dependent of his benefactor WB, or maybe he never recovered from his utter defeat, like Luffy did. I mentioned this in another thread, but I think that Luffy is still reeling from his earlier failure in a psychological level, and that's what is preventing him from surpassing his current level of strength. But soon enough Luffy's inner strength is going to show when he recovers the self-confidence that he lost when he was defeated by Kuma. This is going to drive him forward to become stronger than his brother, who I believe has lost his foremost ambition, which was once to become the Pirate King as well. The reason why I think WB is babysitting Ace is because he believes that once Ace is capable of outgrowing his current crew's ambition, he will finally strive for the ultimate title and achieve it.
I however, believe that Ace has reached his peak, and his mental strength and ambition are never going to reach the heights that Luffy's ambition require. This is the reason why Luffy has the qualities that will allow him to become the PK in the future, and Ace does not. Something that I also believe will be one of WB's last realizations, and is something he already suspects, to a sufficient degree that it merits the assignment of his strongest bodyguard.
I have to disagree.
Remember when Zoro told Kuma to take his head instead of Luffy's and then Sanji stepped in and reminded Zoro of his ambition. Both of them were willing to give up their ambition to save their friends. For me, Luffy is the same. If he has such high ambition to become the pirate king above everything else, why is he in this war? Why is he risking his life here? Clearly, if he dies here, he cannot become the pirate king. And he openly declared that he does not care if he has to die to save Ace, not if he has to die to become the pirate king. -
Let's be brief.
Luffy would not question his nakama's desires.
Luffy would never consider himself a failure not worth saving.
Luffy would be smiling because he would believe in his companions' strength if they were at the level of the commanders.
Luffy would be smiling as he did in Logue Town becuase death does not scare him.Ace… well we know what he's acting like.
Luffy would question his nakama's desires if all of them can die . Hell more than once luffy told his crew not to fight when he notice they could get kill.
Ace only said he was failure to try to get his crew not go to war where thousand of them can die.
luffy would not be smiling , in this war not matter how strong you are you can die. you think luffy would be smiling if saw what happen to oars jr happen to one of his friends and crew.
When luffy was about to be kill no one close to him was in danger unlike ace where he knows thousand of people can die not the same.
Luffy was crying when his crew got wipe out but there was still hope there were alive. Right now ace is seeing his crew and friends dying there not even hope. Some of them are going to die in this war.
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I have to disagree.
Remember when Zoro told Kuma to take his head instead of Luffy's and then Sanji stepped in and reminded Zoro of his ambition. Both of them were willing to give up their ambition to save their friends. For me, Luffy is the same. If he has such high ambition to become the pirate king above everything else, why is he in this war? Why is he risking his life here? Clearly, if he dies here, he cannot become the pirate king. And he openly declared that he does not care if he has to die to save Ace, not if he has to die to become the pirate king.There's a clear difference between valueing other's lives over yours and thinking that your own life is worth nothing because your a failure. Luffy is willing to risk his life over others as many times as he needs to, but he will not deny help from others because his self-worth is destroyed due to his crushed ego.
Crushed ego will never equate to Luffy. Just as it will never equate to Garp. But apparently it can equate to Ace.
@andy: try to follow all my posts cause those affirmations were context sensitive. I was saying that that would hold true if Luffy were in a similar situation and Luffy's crew had similar levels of power, as well as a broader experience.
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There's a clear difference between valueing other's lives over yours and thinking that your own life is worth nothing because your a failure. Luffy is willing to risk his life over others as many times as he needs to, but he will not deny help from others because his self-worth is destroyed due to his crushed ego.
Crushed ego will never equate to Luffy. Just as it will never equate to Garp. But apparently it can equate to Ace.
Ace isn't denying help from others because of his crushed ego. He thinks the people trying to help him have a great chance of getting killed. He's not going to happily encourage them to save him if he thinks it'll cost them their lives.
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There's a clear difference between valueing other's lives over yours and thinking that your own life is worth nothing because your a failure. Luffy is willing to risk his life over others as many times as he needs to, but he will not deny help from others because his self-worth is destroyed due to his crushed ego.
Crushed ego will never equate to Luffy. Just as it will never equate to Garp. But apparently it can equate to Ace.
@andy: try to follow all my posts cause those affirmations were context sensitive. I was saying that that would hold true if Luffy were in a similar situation and Luffy's crew had similar levels of power, as well as a broader experience.
I am still trying understand how you can say luffy would not act like ace . When he has act the same way before only on a smaller scale. When luffy crew was gone he was not even fighting back any more. Put luffy in ace shoes and he would be crying and begging them to stop after seeing one of his friends getting leg cut off with hundrends of others dying right in front of him.
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Not really sure what group of people is represented by Your “we”, but could You try to explain why You want Ace to fulfil these expectations? Is it because he has symbolic value for You?
For me, even though One Piece of course has symbolic connotations, it was always about the characters. And for characters to be more than just a symbol, they have to have edges, weaknesses and so forth. That's why I really enjoyed when Luffy told Ace that all this pirate stuff is meaningless because his brother's life is at stake. One of the greatest moments in One Piece so far.
I think it has to do with modern-day society that expects us to behave in certain patterns that require us to act more like symbols of some unattainable ideals and not like sometimes troubled individuals. Therefore people look for those unrealistic qualities in fictitious characters. Let us just hope that these “requirements” stay fictitious. I for one find such characters too unbelievable. If one already has a fantasy-environment that defies reality then at least give me some characters I can relate to.
Interesting how even in the old epics the heroes were allowed to be “emo”. I mean, heck, the Greek gods are ALL anthropomorphic.I agree with you, and not once did I criticize the composition of the story, or Oda's incredible writing skills.
It's obvious Ace was set up to act this way, to snap him out of it by Luffy's outburst.However, it has nothing to do with what I have been saying.
Yes, he's a symbol, much like anything else represented in the story.
I simply stated given his position in the story, we "expected" him to be taller and higher than what was presented to us.
This is not a negativity or criticsm, it is unexpected. And perhaps let down.
And those were most likely intentinally written so, and these feelings we express is likely part of Oda's plan, so Luffy's outburst becomes more dramatic.You need to be able to put a line between writers intent and our observation, with critical argument. They are not the same thing, buddy.
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Ace isn't denying help from others because of his crushed ego. He thinks the people trying to help him have a great chance of getting killed. He's not going to happily encourage them to save him if he thinks it'll cost them their lives.
The difference is that he would trust that his companions would pull through, and respect their desire to save him. Maybe he'd get emotional, possibly shout out "GUYS!" or something along those lines, but he would never try to shoo them away if they are there of their own accord, especially before they start fighting. What kind of trust and backbone does that show? The truth is that Ace was pwning everyone and then he got beaten. Then he broke down. Luffy got utterly defeated and was only mentally broken for a moment. His determination was restored relatively quickly.(Amazon Lily)
I am still trying understand how you can say luffy would not act like ace . When he has act the same way before only on a smaller scale. When luffy crew was gone he was not even fighting back any more.
Getting your entire crew killed can do that to you for a moment. Ace was completely destroyed just for getting defeated when his crew was completely intact. He is weaker than Luffy. His ego got destroyed and his ambition changed. Luffy is still adamant on becoming the PK.
Edit: Have to leave now, be back when I leave work.