Yeah, I think that's closer to what I meant.
Chapter 548 "Thank you" Discussion
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Oda still remembers what it was like being a kid growing up reading Dragonball, and thats great. Because he remembers that, he worries about how long the story has gotten and how hard it is for new readers to catch up. He worries about how extra pages in a volume raise the price of a book. He keeps doing SBS because it dissapoitned him when Toriyama stopped in Dragonball, despite what a pain it is.
He loves his fans, and thats AWESOME and comendable and one of the best things about him, and part of what makes him one of the best creators out there. He know he has lots of kids that are fans and looks out for them and their wallets. And that, in and of itself, is great.
When he handicaps the story for it however… I've already been over this at length several times now, so I wont say it all again. Its great that he watches out for his newer and younger fans. But its possible he hasn't yet considered or realized the effect he's slowly having on long term fans that have grown up with the series.
@Thousand:
Also I disagree where you said Mr. Oda can't do ambiguous deaths anymore. Impel Down is chock full of them.
Ambiguity requires that something could go either way. Oda's track record the last several years has been 105% towards living, even for fodder. So the ambiguity leans towards "they all survived and are fine", regardless of how much sense it makes.
If someone brings up those guys being thrown into a pot in SBS, he'll explain how they were fine… somehow. Its just how hes been for a couple years now.
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I still don't understand why you need death. It's a happy story, that's the point. Oda doesn't kill fodder to put himself out there. Pell didn't need to die to make the story move on. He doesn't need the fodder to die to have the story move on.
However, he needs Whitebeard and/or Ace to die to make the story move on, and when presented with the opportunity, someone will go down. Even if Ace or WB don't die, they will have their stories ended somehow.
I understand where you're coming from, and I'm all for the intention of only killing if it's necessary for the story. But what many of us believe is that never killing, even when all logic indicates that the characters should have died, creates a contradiction that if taken to extremes as Oda sometimes has in the past detracts from the story.
edit: I'm all for robby's last post.
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They just don't want One Piece to turn into Avatar: The last Airbender.
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Do we go back to 10 years of this same bullshit?
I hope not. And I really do think he will kill Whitebeard off. I mean…I really don't see how he can back out of that one. I mean, just off the top of my head we have:
- Whitebeard is the last symbol of the older pirate generation.
- He has to go for Blackbeard to make his rise to power.
- He has to go for the "New Generation" to step in.
- He can't just go to prison for obvious reasons. Plus it is destroyed.
- Jinbei's comment about Fishman Island being under his protection, among other places.
- "Silvermedalists" who need to come out of hiding.
- Etc.
I mean the World Government needs to win. They have to. If they lose, after having lost Enies Lobby and Impel Down then they will be beyond recovery, making them pretty much non-existent as an entity of power. Too many ties would be cut at that point. Yet even if they win, we know it will not be without MAJOR losses. I mean their Triangle of Justice will be destroyed at each point – I presume Luffy will wreak major havoc at Marineford to save Ace, making it a hat-trick -- which makes their transport, security, and control crippled, with thousands of pirates coming out of hiding to steal the spotlight now that Whitebeard is out of the picture. Chaos. Chaos that they will not be able to control.
Of course, Oda could make other routes work, but this just seems to be what he is building towards. A big showdown where Whitebeard meets his fate*, reviving the pirate age now that the big bad stache is out of the picture, allowing for [hopefully] a darker and more brutal second half of the story.
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I hope not. And I really do think he will kill Whitebeard off. I mean…I really don't see how he can back out of that one. I mean, just off the top of my head we have:
- Whitebeard is the last symbol of the older pirate generation.
- He has to go for Blackbeard to make his rise to power.
- He has to go for the "New Generation" to step in.
- He can't just go to prison for obvious reasons. Plus it is destroyed.
- Jinbei's comment about Fishman Island being under his protection, among other places.
- "Silvermedalists" who need to come out of hiding.
- Etc.
I mean the World Government needs to win. They have to. If they lose, after having lost Enies Lobby and Impel Down then they will be beyond recovery, making them pretty much non-existant as an entity of power. Too many ties would be cut at that point. Yet even if they win, we know it will not be without MAJOR losses. I mean their Triangle of Justice will be destroyed at each point – I presume Luffy will wreak major havoc at Marineford to save Ace, making it a hat-trick -- which makes their transport, security, and control crippled, with thousands of pirates coming out of hiding to steal the spotlight now that Whitebeard is out of the picture. Chaos. Chaos that they will not be able to control.
Of course, Oda could make other routes work, but this just seems to be what he is building towards. A big showdown where Whitebeard meets his fate*, reviving the pirate age now that the big bad stache is out of the picture, allowing for [hopefully] a darker and mroe brutal second half of the story.
I am hoping that this, which I agree is the logical progression of the story, is what happens.
I didn't know that Oda did not kill because of the kids. This alone strikes me as a very prideful and self-flattering stance. No manga has that kind of influence on kids and I hope he doesn't believe that. I also hope he doesn't hamstring his story for a dubious moral stance.
If, however, all this buildup does lead to the storyline catalyst that it appears to be, then this could easily become the best manga ever (in my opinion). I'm really hoping that the outline you have drawn for the future of the story goes down like that.
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I hope not. And I really do think he will kill Whitebeard off. I mean…I really don't see how he can back out of that one.
The points you make are all reasons WB needs to pass on, but I'm confident Whitebeard will actually die of whatever illness he's had since he was first introduced.
He won't be killed, by the efforts of the government or Blackbeard, he'll just pwn everything in his away, presumably being suitably epic and up to his reputation, barely knock aside every threat, save Ace, meet Luffy juuuuust long enough to say "You remind me of Roger, this new generation might have something to it after all", succeed at everything he wanted to do, leave Marineford hurt but victorious….
and THEN...
die from disease and going past his limits.
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@robbybevard:
The points you make are all reasons WB needs to pass on, but I'm confident Whitebeard will actually die of whatever illness he's had since he was first introduced.
He won't be killed, by the efforts of the government or Blackbeard, he'll just pwn everything in his away, presumably being suitably epic and up to his reputation, barely knock aside every threat, save Ace, meet Luffy juuuuust long enough to say "You remind me of Roger, this new generation might have something to it after all", succeed at everything he wanted to do, leave Marineford hurt but victorious….
and THEN...
die from disease and going past his limits.
Talk about living up to your hype.
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@robbybevard:
He won't be killed, by the efforts of the government or Blackbeard, he'll just pwn everything in his away, and THEN…die from disease and going past his limits.
Ugh. I forgot about that. Damn. That would really piss me off. I mean, it would by no means be a deal breaker, but to sidestep what could have been an extremely powerful on-screen death would be frustratingly disappointing. Still, I don't think that will happen. At least, I seriously hope not. Blackbeard is still a no-name. Sure, he might be a Shichibukai/Ex-Shichibukai, but that was short lived enough that many would wave it off as irrelevant. I think in order to establish himself, he needs to take Whitebeard down. Can you imagine how awesome a two page spread of Blackbeard running a blade* straight through Whitebeard would be? Or something similar. I mean, if you are gonna do it then do it right, right? I think I would prefer this more:
He won't be killed by the efforts of the government; he'll just pwn everything in his away, and THEN…when he seems to have taken the victory, Blackbeard shows up. -
I'm really hoping WB gets killed off. And I don't say that out of fanboyism or dislike of his character at all, I just think it's the best turn for the story, even if it's somewhat predictable. I like the passing of the the torch idea, I like the idea of Fishman Island being thrown into chaos and Luffy sorting it out, all that crap we talk about. It just seems right to me, because thus far, most of Whitebeard's character/reputation has been developed through rumors, history, talk and whatnot. We haven't dealt with him personally in the story a lot and something tells me Oda would feel better killing a character like that, because his character can still exist in rumors, history, and talk. Of course, we're going to deal with him a lot more from now on, so there's that to consider too.
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Don't forget that he has 14 division commanders supporting him….however the idea of Whitebeard just charging in and beating the shit out of everyone alone sounds really badass.
As for his death...he's the strongest man in the One Piece world, but when you look at it from other perspective, he's also an old injured man. After a long struggle, the Shichibukai may owerpower him.
How powerful moment would it be if Jinbei was the one who has to give him the final blow?
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Well what I'm interested in os to see the division commanders. We only have seen WBs ship and not the others one. And Marco and Jotu were on the same ship with WB.
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He won't be killed by the efforts of the government; he'll just pwn everything in his away, and THEN…when he seems to have taken the victory, Blackbeard shows up.
Not a chance. Whitebeard's Haki will prevent it.
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I'd like to see the division commanders fight too. I wonder if the Elder Stars will fight as well? I'd like to see how strong they are. And Mihawk VS Whitebeard would be pretty cool . -
@Kairouseki:
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv138/Kairouseki/IceHaki.jpg
I'd like to see the division commanders fight too. I wonder if the Elder Stars will fight as well? I'd like to see how strong they are. And Mihawk VS Whitebeard would be pretty cool .Thanks for reminding me.
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Are we forgetting that shanks and kaido are in contact? I wonder if anything nice is going to happen.
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@The:
How powerful moment would it be if Jinbei was the one who has to give him the final blow?
Not going to happen.
The entire reason that Jinbei was in Impel Down in the first place was because he flipped out on the World Government for even suggesting such a thing.
I can't see him ever raising a hand against Whitebeard.
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Are we forgetting that shanks and kaido are in contact? I wonder if anything nice is going to happen.
You mean Shanks dying? That'd be really inspiring for Luffy :D. But I don't think Shanks will die until he meets Luffy again.
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rusashi,
Don't.
For whatever reason you're not getting the point.
The story doesn't need 'death'. What it needs is a sense of danger. The idea that precious things can actually be lost. That's what made this site's namesake such an INCREDIBLE arc. How he could create a scenario where each and every time I so much as look at a page of a comic book, the tears well up like so much Niagra Falls, it's unthinkable.
Or in Alabasta. When Vivi is literally at her wits end and she starts screaming at the crowd after having everything taken away from her, annoyance of Vivi from anime aside, that was a powerful moment.
Never again.
We know all her friends and family will be totally safe. She will have lost nothing. Therefore she just sounds like a whining bitch.
The series has slowly become like watching an episode of Wile E. Coyote VS Road Runner. No matter how many times you drop an anvil on Character X, they'll be fine.
"But Greg! It IS a comic!"
And that's why I got into OP, because originally it was different from everything else. It wasn't lathered in glossy black, but it had poignant moments that went straight to the heart because of the sense that precious things, living and non-living, could be lost.
But when Oda's high-moral standard has gotten bigger and bloated over the years, the story has become increasingly similar to….well....everything else.
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Actually, if Shirohige does die, I'd like to see Doflamingo give the final blow, simply for how powerful that would be. Doflamingo is the Shichibukai with the highest (known) former bounty (although Mihawk may be higher), is a man who despises dreamers and those who believe in dreams (i.e. One Piece) without any concrete evidence (remember what he said to Bellamy? He said it didn't matter whether or not Sky Island existed or not, but that Bellamy didn't seek it to prove/disprove its existence), and generally is an apathetic person. He abandoned even his own business prospects (the Slave Trade) in apathy, in preparation for what he considers to be a major event. His conversation with Disco heavily implied that he was thoroughly going to enjoy taking down Whitebeard; from what we've seen, Save Teach (who would enjoy it for another reason altogether), none of the other Shichibukai have shown particular enthusiasm at this assignment. Moria, Mihawk and Kuma seem Indifferent, Jimbei is against it, and Hancock flat out wanted no part of it, but was forced to participate for Luffy's sake.
Not to mention the fact that Doflamingo has been indirectly involved in instigating two major arcs in the series. The first such instance was with his former crew, the second was with his former business venture.
It's subtle, but it's still foreshadowing. While Teach is being set up to be the final villain, Doflamingo is being set up as the biggest instigator. It wouldn't make sense for anyone to strike down Whitebeard (if anyone does) but him and him alone. And not just because of their clash of beliefs, but because he is the perfect candidate.
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Doflamingo is being set up as the biggest instigator.
Yeah he fuckin' is.
What a prick.
I like how Oda set him up as the owner of the auction. He [Oda] has big plans for that. Imagine the wealth he's accumulated with that shit????????
The day he pulls out some gigantic fucking thing it's going to make perfect sense because he's basically been stealing money from the richest bastards in the world for years with that.
It's a very deliberate setup that's gonna make for a bitchin' callback someday.
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Yeah, I can't wait until the Straw Hats encounter Doflamingo. The guy's a complete and utter douchebag, and I can't wait to see what kinds of dickery he's going to try to pull with them.
He and his New Age are definitely being built up for something big. I won't be surprised if he turns out to be an endgame villain, considering his nature, powers, and ideals, which are the complete anti-thesis of everything Gold Roger, and by extension, One Piece, stand for.
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The biggest hint should have been his complete control over everything; from his power (Some kind of physical manipulation, whether by Devil Fruit or other means), to his crew (bound to his beliefs of the New Age and the dissipation of dreamers), to his business ventures (Slavery, which removes a person's free will); everything he's involved in is completely against, like Crossword said, Roger and the ideals behind One Piece. And on top of that, loss means nothing to him. Every other villain (Even Lucchi) has given some sort of common purpose behind their actions, from Justice (Lucchi, Spandam, Magellan, Several other Marines), to Money and Power (Wapol, Arlong, Krieg, Enel, countless others), and the rest have hinted at Tragic Backstories that drove them to their actions (Crocodile, Moria, others). When all of these people suffered a loss, they showed some sort of despair, anger, frustration, resignation, etc.; Even Crocodile, as stoic as he is, hinted at some event in the past that drove him to accept his status on the first half of the Grand Line.
Doflamingo has none of these things. His goal is unique; a New Era, still vague but pretty much estimable considering everything we know about him. If something failed, Doflamingo cast it aside. From killing Bellamy to abandoning Disco and the Human Shop to its fate; nothing seems to faze him. And honestly, that kind of scares me.
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I always expected big from Flamingo, and I know he will deliver.
He looks funny but is probably a genius, yeah I could see him ending up being way down at the end of the line.
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@robbybevard:
And the same thing has happened over and over since. The tenryubiito are assholes, yes.. but they're nothing to be feared. they shoot normal civilians, have collars explode on their necksbut… those civilians are FINE. Its a nuisance, and annoyance, but its not intimidating.
Um, isn't it implied that Charlos rapes his unwilling wives?
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@Fire Fist:
It wouldn't make sense for anyone to strike down Whitebeard (if anyone does) but him and him alone. And not just because of their clash of beliefs, but because he is the perfect candidate.
his goal, a new era, is only to achieve by crushing the regular order..
so dofla`s goal sure is that WB will lose his power, as he stated many times "the new era is arriving"
so using this WAR! to reach his own goal is perfect for him.for dofla to make the final strike against WB..
mhh i dont see it necassary,but sure he wouldn
t hesitate to do so..
and you dont have to ask me if i would be glad with that:happy: but in my opinion it
s of no matter WHO exactly kills WB..when he has a chance he will sure do it…only thing that matters is that it will happen!
dofla just wants to have some fun their(shows how calm he is even in such an situation..he`s hyped but sure he knows about his powers and that maybe just WB in full strenght could be a problem for him)..i think we can agree that he isn`t the guy who needs some "thx" from the marine, cause he was THE 1 killing\defeating WB...
he is always glad when some other guys do the dirty work for him..The day he pulls out some gigantic fucking thing it's going to make perfect sense because he's basically been stealing money from the richest bastards in the world for years with that.
nicce point..he said his business runs well, the first time we saw him..foreshadowing
+now we know that he earns a lot of money and don`t need anymore for his plans
so what could he do with his money..
first thought was to create a ancient weapon…but no iam putting to much into this chara..being the guy with ancient weapons would be to muchbut what could it be..?
@Fire Fist:
Doflamingo has none of these things. His goal is unique; a New Era, still vague but pretty much estimable considering everything we know about him. If something failed, Doflamingo cast it aside. From killing Bellamy to abandoning Disco and the Human Shop to its fate; nothing seems to faze him. And honestly, that kind of scares me.
that sure is a big factor..he will\has sacifice\d everything to achieve his new era..
hes planning for the future(i mean he had a nicce life..having much money..no real villains) but still this guy don
t even think about enjoying it..he sees the time is chancing and he wants to use it for his advantage.
he dont care about any1 who is weak and he won
t even have them around …
hes going to tyrann everything which couldn
t match with the powerhouses..what sick goal is that?:blink:
having an slavery auction house showed what he things about people..but his goal is even higher..every1 is scum for him and this scum should be vanished..you rly have to fear this guy..
another note:when he played with the marines and sengoku said, he should stop or does he wants WAR...i loved his smile..and we know that he was aware of the fact that soon a WAR will come -
rusashi,
Don't.
For whatever reason you're not getting the point.
The story doesn't need 'death'. What it needs is a sense of danger. The idea that precious things can actually be lost. That's what made this site's namesake such an INCREDIBLE arc. How he could create a scenario where each and every time I so much as look at a page of a comic book, the tears well up like so much Niagra Falls, it's unthinkable.
Or in Alabasta. When Vivi is literally at her wits end and she starts screaming at the crowd after having everything taken away from her, annoyance of Vivi from anime aside, that was a powerful moment.
Never again.
We know all her friends and family will be totally safe. She will have lost nothing. Therefore she just sounds like a whining bitch.
The series has slowly become like watching an episode of Wile E. Coyote VS Road Runner. No matter how many times you drop an anvil on Character X, they'll be fine.
"But Greg! It IS a comic!"
And that's why I got into OP, because originally it was different from everything else. It wasn't lathered in glossy black, but it had poignant moments that went straight to the heart because of the sense that precious things, living and non-living, could be lost.
But when Oda's high-moral standard has gotten bigger and bloated over the years, the story has become increasingly similar to….well....everything else.
Glad someone else agrees with me on how much of the suspense has been sucked out because there's no sense of danger any more. Honestly, I felt nothing for Mr. 2 consider he won't be dead, making most of his sacrifice moot
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:ermm:
Learn to enjoy a story for what it is, now what you want it to be.
Why? Let's just all live in a box and act like robots. :getlost:
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Personally, I think mountains are being made out of molehills with the lack of real-time death, but I joined this thread too late for that discussion. Pity. To be honest, anybody could see this Mr. 2 thing coming from a mile away, since there's one more Pirate Captain that could use his services; there was little point to the Impel Down faux-sacrifice or the Pell scenario.
Greg, is this how you felt in regards to Dragonball series in regards to the constant notion of "Oh! Look at these conveniently placed Dragonballs that we found after the end of major arcs!"
I still think, based on what Blackbeard said in Impel Down, he's going to be the one to take down Whitebeard with his new crew in tow. He'll sneak in just as they appear to have the upper hand and strike down the Old Man in front of everybody. (Who knows, maybe he'll take out a big Marine official as well.) Maybe we'll get to witness Doflamingo try to encroach upon Fishman Island after The Big War, who knows.
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is this how you felt in regards to Dragonball series in regards to the constant notion of "Oh! Look at these conveniently placed Dragonballs that we found after the end of major arcs!"
Its a completley different standard.
Dragonball had the deus ex machina built into the very premise of the series, it was part and partial that something could be gained, undone or fixed with a wish. But that wish had to be EARNED with an adventure and a quest. And it made light of death anyway with an otherworld adventures and ghosts being able to visit for a day the whole time. Death was never permanent or consequential in Dragonball, the series was ALWAYS just about the adventure.
Whereas OP has played and pulled with the heartstrings based upon the consequence of giving your all, that trying to suceed in the world could cost you everything, and for 7 years played it straight Its been… less so recently.
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@robbybevard:
Its a completley different standard.
Dragonball had the deus ex machina built into the very premise of the series, it was part and partial that something could be gained, undone or fixed with a wish. But that wish had to be EARNED with an adventure and a quest. And it made light of death anyway with an otherworld adventures and ghosts being able to visit for a day the whole time. Death was never permanent or consequential in Dragonball, the series was ALWAYS just about the adventure.
Whereas OP has played and pulled with the heartstrings based upon the consequence of giving your all, that trying to suceed in the world could cost you everything, and for 7 years played it straight Its been… less so recently.
Dragonball Z =/= Adventure
DB? Yes.
DBZ? Hail naw. -
Dragonball Z =/= Adventure
DB? Yes.
DBZ? Hail naw.Yeah, the dragonballs turned into a flat out dues ex machina by the later 2/3 of the series with adult Goku. But they'd been legitimate earned quests for 16 volumes, and the trip to Namek. By Cell and Buu they were just death undo buttons, but they'd been fair use up until that point, and the series had evolved into… what it had evolved into..
And yes, death in OP IS a mountain being made out of a molehill. One again, the point was never that I wanted to see more death in the series... just more consequence for actions. I don't care about characters living or dying, I care when the story and the drama is being undermined by a very obvious and conscious choice by the author, a choice that he didn't USED to make.
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@robbybevard:
Yeah, the dragonballs turned into a flat out dues ex machina by the later 2/3 of the series with adult Goku. But they'd been legitimate earned quests for 16 volumes, and the trip to Namek. By Cell and Buu they were just death undo buttons, but they'd been fair use up until that point, and the series had evolved into… what it had evolved into..
And yes, death in OP IS a mountain being made out of a molehill. One again, the point was never that I wanted to see more death in the series... just more consequence for actions. I don't care about characters living or dying, I care when the story and the drama is being undermined by a very obvious and conscious choice by the author, a choice that he didn't USED to make.
I think however we can grateful of one thing. No matter how much of an escape characters make from death, there has never, never, NEVER been a character revived from the dead. Mr. Oda understands the finality and significance of death as not something you can just shrug off. A revival from the dead would totally ruin all the special meaning and significance of all the deaths that have occurred in the past and I am happy Mr. Oda understands that. You may think that this is a given but considering how other series deal with such a simple yet highly important issue…
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@Thousand:
I think however we can grateful of one thing. No matter how much of an escape characters make from death, there has never, never, NEVER been a character revived from the dead. Mr. Oda understands the finality and significance of death as not something you can just shrug off. A revival from the dead would totally ruin all the special meaning and significance of all the deaths that have occurred in the past and I am happy Mr. Oda understands that. You may think that this is a given but considering how other series deal with such a simple yet highly important issue…
Brook and the thriller bark zombies would say otherwise.
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But… they're zombies :ermm: . And Brook ate a fruit that lets him and it's a one-time thing.
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Anybody spot Pandaman?
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I hope not. And I really do think he will kill Whitebeard off. I mean…I really don't see how he can back out of that one. I mean, just off the top of my head we have:
- Whitebeard is the last symbol of the older pirate generation.
- He has to go for Blackbeard to make his rise to power.
- He has to go for the "New Generation" to step in.
- He can't just go to prison for obvious reasons. Plus it is destroyed.
- Jinbei's comment about Fishman Island being under his protection, among other places.
- "Silvermedalists" who need to come out of hiding.
- Etc.
I mean the World Government needs to win. They have to. If they lose, after having lost Enies Lobby and Impel Down then they will be beyond recovery, making them pretty much non-existent as an entity of power. Too many ties would be cut at that point. Yet even if they win, we know it will not be without MAJOR losses. I mean their Triangle of Justice will be destroyed at each point – I presume Luffy will wreak major havoc at Marineford to save Ace, making it a hat-trick -- which makes their transport, security, and control crippled, with thousands of pirates coming out of hiding to steal the spotlight now that Whitebeard is out of the picture. Chaos. Chaos that they will not be able to control.
Of course, Oda could make other routes work, but this just seems to be what he is building towards. A big showdown where Whitebeard meets his fate*, reviving the pirate age now that the big bad stache is out of the picture, allowing for [hopefully] a darker and more brutal second half of the story.
If it was any other story, I would agree with you. That's what a regular story-teller would do.
But in this case, it's Oda we're talking about. The guy already showed he doesn't work with the same codes. Anything can happen.My theory is : Blackbeard will kill Whitebeard and the Government will lose to Dragon after having been crippled down by the WB crew and Luffy's dream team.
If the "second half of the story" you're talking happen takes place in the New World, there is absolutely no reason for the Governement to play any role in it, since that part of the world is not their turf but the Yonkou's. Plus, the Government has made one catastrophic strategic decision after the other (Buster calling their own big place, relying on faithless Schichibukai, planning the public execution of the greatest pirate's nakama AND the most dangerous public ennemy's son…). Even if it is not the evident scenaristic choice (I agree with you on that), it makes sense in a technical point of view.But, as I said, anything can happen.
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Well, it doesn't bug me too much, unless Oda has to practically jump through hoops to censor himself. I've just kind of excepted the fact that only grunts and flashback characters will die, though like Greg, I'm hoping that the absence of real death is going to lead up to a real shocker in the near future when someone actually dies.
While we all know that Mr. 2 will live to see another panel cameo, it is a bit ludicrous that he'll pull through, since Magellan has every right to kill him on the spot, and for the first time this arc, he looked absolutely furious.
I have no idea why you people all think the dramatic effect of Bon-Clay's sacrifice is undermined just because we know he won't die…
I mean, eh, what is ahead of him now is a life of torture waaaay worse than mere death. -
this is my problem with black beards character. hes a coward. he doesnt fight white beard cause he knows he can't win. so he plots and schems.i know hes a villain, but villains have some courage and respect
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We're not even sure what his scheme is–it hasn't been revealed in full detail, and although it doesn't look that way right now, it's not impossible that he shows up at the war and confronts WB in some aspect. I mean, he knew that once his plan was put into motion, the strongest motherfucker in the world was going to come after him...even if it involves some kind of trap that's pretty bold--and he seems a lot smarter than he lets on.
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smart yes but we know hes doing all this cause he cant face white beard himself.im sure white beard will gladly face black beard himself on a 1 on 1.since his old ways attitude but black beard is running around like a rat scheming
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It'll be like when Teach met Magellan. Blackbeard will be explaining in great detail his complicated plan and while he's doing this Newgate walks up to him and slices him in half .
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black beard does have a big ego, huh
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A lot of talk has been made of Oda not killing out of some high moral standard to protect the kiddies. Do we actually know that's a factor or are we just putting thoughts in his head?
Frankly, I've always interpreted it as nothing more or less than Oda's preference. He simply doesn't like killing his characters if he doesn't have to and if he can avoid it, great. Like one or two others, the lack of non-Flashbacky death has not really been an issue for me. It's a minor annoyance at best, a cop out at worst.
In my mind, you know going into a series like One Piece that the Good Guys will be victorious over the bad. That's a given, and few if any good guys will be lost in the process. Therefore, in my mind, it's never been an issue of what happens but how. As long as that's entertaining, I'm more than willing to forgive an issue like this. There's never been a "sense of danger" for me as I know Luffy and his cronies are almost always going to get out of whatever disaster they find themselves in largely unscathed. My enjoyment comes in watching how they pull that part off. As a result, it's honestly irrelevant to me whether or not Mr. 2 survives this because his sacrifice made for a hell of a scene. If he comes back later, sweet we can enjoy him more. If he ultimately doesn't, it was still a fun ride.
As deep and epic as One Piece gets, I have always viewed it as mostly Just Good Fun. It's escapism. I sit back and read so I can see the Straw Hats do some crazy thing and go "Cool!" or just laugh myself silly at their antics. I think I can see Oda's point from this angle. While a dose of drama and death helps make the awesome moments all the sweeter, excessive death and despair would naturally get in the way of that lighthearted aspect. I don't think anyone here can honestly deny that One Piece is and always has been light and optimistic more often than not. If so, then Oda is just overcompensating far as I'm can tell.
Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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Yeah, I think you're right.
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The death question has been brought up in the SBS (you'd have to look it up) and Oda SPECIFICALLY says he doesn't want to kill anyone because he wants the series to be a happy series and losing your dream is worse than dying.
I can't remember which volume it was in, though. It would be VERY relevant to this thread if someone knew which volume it was in (or had the exact quote).
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@Thousand:
See that's your problem, just because Mr. Oda made some death goofs, you're blinding yourself from the deaths that DO happen. Those guys thrown into the pit died, the previous page they declared that was going to happen to them. The level 6 prisoner Magellan poisoned died as well, both the other level 6 prisoners and Bon-chan can attest to that and I highly doubt Impel Down was gonna waste antidote for a level 6 priosner who was either gonna die anyway or never see the light of day. Most of the prisoners Shiryu slaughtered died. Quit making up silly excuses for side-characters that were clearly intended to be taken as dead. I really think you're twisting facts here. It's undeniable Mr. Oda hates killing but that doesn't mean he never does it from time to time.
You really have no proof of these alleged deaths. Cuz of all of those ritard fake deaths any death that can be considered to actually happen is null and void.
Notice every "death" you mentioned is of fodder and at the same time Oda brings back fodder in other situations where you would also think they're dead. He doesn't kill any significant character which is more of a joke when it comes to what type of manga this is. It's like he purposely does it like it's going to always be funny.
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Do we actually know that's a factor or are we just putting thoughts in his head?
Yes. His comment on death was, as a I recall, from a separate interview, not an SBS. I believe it may be read at Destination Paradise.
In the full quote (and I'm paraphrasing) he goes on to say while he isn't 100% against it, he believes it should be used sparingly.
Which….at the time....he seemed to do. He let things be more ambiguous than they are today.
It's kind of like reverse Harry Potter. Instead of getting more mature with fans, it gets fucking kiddier.
This I find really selfish on his part. He's always talking about doing shit for 'little fans' but how about the people who've graduated high school, college and have gotten married since you started writing, huh?
This is NOT the Hate Oda thread. Just being bluntly honest about his dealing with this aspect of the series.
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^^ sure was 100 times the matter of being disappointed…
you say true words, but actually we can`t complain about this little side aspect..i mean in some situations it would bring more depth in the story,so it would sure be better..but actually..whatever, let him handle his charas as he wants..
oda sure cares a little toooooo much for his little kiddie-fans, but actually iam still the opnion, that the NW will have a slightely different tone..so it will be more for guys like us..more dark,bloody fights..and we will see the abyss of humaity..just think about the foreshadowing oda does with the tenriybuto, slave markets,racism against fishman...:ninja:
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@robbybevard:
Brook and the thriller bark zombies would say otherwise.
The zombies aren't revived people. They're walking corpses with someone else's spirit. Chopper himself said they weren't alive. And Brook is a one time thing.