Luffy is definitely not immune to poison. He was clearly feeling the effects of Croc's poison, and was almost killed by it. Luckily Robin had the antidote to the poison and saved Luffy.
movie 9 confirms this also…...........
Luffy is definitely not immune to poison. He was clearly feeling the effects of Croc's poison, and was almost killed by it. Luckily Robin had the antidote to the poison and saved Luffy.
movie 9 confirms this also…...........
You know…
Oda has revisted so many villains and yet...
He must be saving one mother-fucking helluva story for Kuro. Maybe he'll show up at TW?
My mind has drawn a blank. For the life of me I can't recall any One Piece terms that have the initials TW.
Sorry, Tequila Wolf.
You know…
Oda has revisted so many villains and yet...
He must be saving one mother-fucking helluva story for Kuro. Maybe he'll show up at TW?
TW? Tequila Wolf?
Anyway, the total blank that is Morgan's history bothers me far more than Kuro's absence. Ginh does as well, but I'm sure that we'll see him again. Especially seeing as how he was probably the strongest pirate in East Blue before Luffy came onto the scene.
Tequila Wolf, the island where Robin is currently building a bridge, not important enough to remember it for it's initials.
Anyway, the total blank that is Morgan's history bothers me far more than Kuro's absence. Ginh does as well, but I'm sure that we'll see him again. Especially seeing as how he was probably the strongest pirate in East Blue before Luffy came onto the scene.
Morgan's going to play an interesting part as well. For sure, Oda wouldn't have bothered including him in the Django story otherwise.
And the reunion with Gin will be wondiferous but we know that's coming.
He's specifically avoided anything and everything about Kuro (manga, not anime) while he's either touched on or revisited, albeit briefly, most major villains which, either he wants that to be Kuro's fate, or he's holding back to hit us when we least expect it.
Right now we're in the midst of true fan service. I don't mean the OVERUSED sexual nuances, I mean he's actually servicing us right now. We know exactly who Luffy is going to meet as he gets lower and it's fun as all hell. rimshot Some little details get thrown in along the way for fun like Iwa but for the most part, we know how this arc is going to play out until it reaches its climax where any number of things could happen. Right now it's time we sit back and just enjoy what he's doing, seeing the old characters and how they interact one last time before moving on with the story to new grounds.
But whenever we find out how he's going to deal with the other characters, I have a feeling he's got more than one surprise up his sleeve, esp. in TW.
You know…
Oda has revisted so many villains and yet...
He must be saving one mother-fucking helluva story for Kuro. Maybe he'll show up at TW?
Strange, Kuro, as cool as he was (it was his fight with Luffy that totally convinced me that Luffy is strong), I see his story as done and gone. Of all East Blue villains, he's the one with the least loose ends. I don't think we will see him again.
But, as always, I'm terrible at predicting Oda.
I will be glad to hear what kind of technique he can use to beat magellan? Stop breathing and jet bazooka? Or do you just have faith in him? As AlmostLegendary said it would be a good fight where luffy might try something new. But if he continues with his actual techniques he will fail unless you have ideas? Even with the others strength combined it would be impossible. Mr.3s Df power won't work there because of the intense heat. Therefor they are all exposed to the poison.
Well, assuming Magellan was a normal guy, he would punch him from a distance, keeping himself out of the poison's reach. Gear 2 could let him dodge any poison attacks, and why wouldn't gear three just know him out like usual?
Of course, that question can't be answered until we know how Magellan really uses his poison. And I don't think he'll be just some normal guy. Right now, he seems to attack using long range (based off one attack), but how he really fights won't be answered until later. But I don't see how it's unavoidable as you're suggesting.
Of course, with the way the arc is going there's a chance that Luffy and Magellan might not even fight. When meeting Magellan Luffy could:
(assuming they fight)
-Use a big rock to shield himself from poison slime.
-If Magellan fills a room with poison gas, assuming that his troops are also in the same room, maybe he could steal a gas mask (unless Magellan's the kind of guy to kill his own men…)
(or, if there's no traditional fight)
-Use teamwork to trick him.
-Or, relase Iwa-san and have him/her/it display the ultimate Tranny Kenpo when defeating him?
-Hancock sneaks to this level and "stones" every enemy in the room.
The bottom line is this. I really don't see how Luffy has no option when facing this Magellan guy. Truth be told Luffy's still barely been pushed to the limit of his stamina and he has 3 other guys to share the work. Gear 2 and 3 still work as good as ever. There's a chance that something "new" might happen on level 4, but as it stands now Luffy still has plenty of methods to get through this. So, I don't see where this sense of impossibility comes from. Surely Impel Down will be tough ordeal, but we're not at the end yet.
Well, assuming Magellan was a normal guy, he would punch him from a distance, keeping himself out of the poison's reach. Gear 2 could let him dodge any poison attacks, and why wouldn't gear three just know him out like usual?
Of course, that question can't be answered until we know how Magellan really uses his poison. And I don't think he'll be just some normal guy. Right now, he seems to attack using long range (based off one attack), but how he really fights won't be answered until later. But I don't see how it's unavoidable as you're suggesting.
Of course, with the way the arc is going there's a chance that Luffy and Magellan might not even fight. When meeting Magellan Luffy could:
(assuming they fight)
-Use a big rock to shield himself from poison slime.
-If Magellan fills a room with poison gas, assuming that his troops are also in the same room, maybe he could steal a gas mask (unless Magellan's the kind of guy to kill his own men…)(or, if there's no traditional fight)
-Use teamwork to trick him.
-Or, relase Iwa-san and have him/her/it display the ultimate Tranny Kenpo when defeating him?
-Hancock sneaks to this level and "stones" every enemy in the room.The bottom line is this. I really don't see how Luffy has no option when facing this Magellan guy. Truth be told Luffy's still barely been pushed to the limit of his stamina and he has 3 other guys to share the work. Gear 2 and 3 still work as good as ever. There's a chance that something "new" might happen on level 4, but as it stands now Luffy still has plenty of methods to get through this. So, I don't see where this sense of impossibility comes from. Surely Impel Down will be tough ordeal, but we're not at the end yet.
That's all assuming that he's not a logia. I do agree though that Luffy is not optionless against him.
Lots of words #1
I just can't get over the words Buggy used. Whatever you say Ace/Croc/Jinbei don't seem "monsters so evil that must be erased from history". No matter what, thety jut don't fit the description. I still see them to be in level 5, what we'll witness in level 6 will exceed any of our expectations, someone so powerful/evil/dangerous that'll make Ace or Croc look like little fries.
Lots of words #2
I reread and reread the second half of your post but couldn't make sense of it. Mainly because you speak of Mr.3 who I didn't even nominate, moreso because I'm saying your exact same thing.
Phoenix Zoan said Croc couldn't be in level 5 cause that's a level for 100+ and he had a bounty of 81 milions, so by logic (even though I don't see any logic in this…) he should be in level 6 (that's what he said).
I countered that by saying that Mr.2 had a bounty of 32 milions, yet he was in level 3 which is for criminals with more than 50 milions on their heads. In fact I was stating the same exact thing you said: bounty =/= threat & power.
Besides Oda said the WG would have at least doubled Croc's bounty (162 milions) if they knew what he was doing, qualifying him for level 5 anyway.
I just can't get over the words Buggy used. Whatever you say Ace/Croc/Jinbei don't seem "monsters so evil that must be erased from history". No matter what, thety jut don't fit the description.
well Ace and Jinbei aren't ment to be there for long. Ace is going to be executed and Jinbei is only there untill he cools off, they weren't even givin prison uniforms. So they argument against them being need erased form history is moot becasue there not there for life, and becasue of there importance i think there's a good chance there in level 6 becasue the goverment want the best secruity for them becasue of there importance.
Crocodile on the other hand may fit the discription, he's a traitor to the goverment and if impel dpwn follows a hell type them, that would mean traitors would go to the bottom circle. in the Divine comedy the lowest circle of hell was home to the world's greatest traitors. now i'm not saying it's definant i'm just saying it's possible.
what we'll witness in level 6 will exceed any of our expectations, someone so powerful/evil/dangerous that'll make Ace or Croc look like little fries.
In One Piece control over history is a major plot point and seeing how the WG seemingly is afraid of an old man just uttering a word, the threat the inhabitants of Lv 6 pose might very well be more political in nature than anything else. Just throwing that out there.
Strange, Kuro, as cool as he was (it was his fight with Luffy that totally convinced me that Luffy is strong), I see his story as done and gone. Of all East Blue villains, he's the one with the least loose ends. I don't think we will see him again.
I completely agree. Kuro's defeat seemed to give him the most satisfying end of any villain we've seen to date. Sure, some of them have been imprisoned but how many of Luffy's enemies have REALLY suffered because of their loss?
Okay, Buggy had a rough patch.
But Arlong has been what? Arrested? Psh.
Krieg for all we know is following orders from Gin. Big deal.
Wapol is living a dream life.
Croc seems, if nothing less, content where he is.
Ener got to go exactly where he wanted to go.
Lucci and the gang are being pursued but it's nothing they can't handle.
Not many of the villains have REALLY endured extended 'payback' for their crimes.
But Kuro…he's spending his life doing the EXACT opposite of what he wanted which is a living hell.
So if Oda were to leave him be it would be just as fitting.
But his avoidance of him seems too coincidental.
By the way...at the rate the anime is proceeding unless they SERIOUSLY dick around on the 'island' I wonder if Oda intends the stories of the crew to be told exclusively in the animation.
Wouldn't that be a happy medium? I mean I'd be bummed we wouldn't see all the details in the comic but we'd still be working with material he WANTS us to see. Otherwise I can't imagine them proceeding at this pace and having enough time for filler inbetween.
It would take brass ones for such a move.
By the way…at the rate the anime is proceeding unless they SERIOUSLY dick around on the 'island' I wonder if Oda intends the stories of the crew to be told exclusively in the animation.
Wouldn't that be a happy medium? I mean I'd be bummed we wouldn't see all the details in the comic but we'd still be working with material he WANTS us to see. Otherwise I can't imagine them proceeding at this pace and having enough time for filler inbetween.
It would take brass ones for such a move.
I love that idea. I don't want to see their adventures in the manga, I think that would be a waste of time and most people would just want to get back to the "regular" story, so it would be a perfect opportunity to do it in the anime. Oda would only have to give some guidelines for what should take place and then they just write their filler-stuff. I think that the fillers in One Piece can be pretty funny but that the stories are usually boring.
But then again, they had some perfect opportunities for fillers with all the cover stories that they haven't taken advantage of, so who knows.
Have we discussed this Tranny Queen Mr. 2 is after? Do you think this person is in level 5 or 6? My guess is that we will meet this he/she in level 6. Seems like the kind of legendary person that the WG wants to erase. I think Oda will somehow work this into the Story.
My guess is that one these days, Sanji is going to show up with an army of Trannys to rescue the day. Wouldn't that be hillarious. Sanji's reputation will be forever ruined in front of all women in the world.
I vote that Ace/Jinbei/Croc are on Level 5. Level 6 seems very secretive. I get the feeling that no one is "offically down there." Any one down there is totally kept off the books, and only the Warden (Megellan) and some high ranking members of the WG know about it. Probably a lot of legendary people thought to be dead or dissappeared for no reason.
My guess is that this Tranny Queen knows something about the void century or has some knowledge that threatens the WG to the core.
I completely agree. Kuro's defeat seemed to give him the most satisfying end of any villain we've seen to date. Sure, some of them have been imprisoned but how many of Luffy's enemies have REALLY suffered because of their loss?
Okay, Buggy had a rough patch.
But Arlong has been what? Arrested? Psh.
Krieg for all we know is following orders from Gin. Big deal.
Wapol is living a dream life.
Croc seems, if nothing less, content where he is.
Ener got to go exactly where he wanted to go.
Lucci and the gang are being pursued but it's nothing they can't handle.
Not many of the villains have REALLY endured extended 'payback' for their crimes.
But Kuro…he's spending his life doing the EXACT opposite of what he wanted which is a living hell.
So if Oda were to leave him be it would be just as fitting.
But his avoidance of him seems too coincidental.
By the way...at the rate the anime is proceeding unless they SERIOUSLY dick around on the 'island' I wonder if Oda intends the stories of the crew to be told exclusively in the animation.
Wouldn't that be a happy medium? I mean I'd be bummed we wouldn't see all the details in the comic but we'd still be working with material he WANTS us to see. Otherwise I can't imagine them proceeding at this pace and having enough time for filler inbetween.
It would take brass ones for such a move.
For the first part about the villains and the aftermath it's one of the reasons I've never believed that Luffy crushing a villains dream equals their metaphoric death cuz as we all know a dream can always be pursued again.
The exception, is Kuro, and because of that I could see him coming back with a bigger bounty pissed the fuck off since he HAS to once again be a pirate being constantly pursued by the marines. Now, yes he's smart enough to easily make up another plan and succeed this time but revenge would be a good enough reason for him to return to the story stronger and more badass but I dunno maybe that's typical or predictable.
On a sidenote I kinda laugh at Enel's outcome since his personality is what caused all of the conflict of that arc. He didn't have to try and destroy Skypeia, he could've easily said "The Maxim is DONE! Peace bitches!!!" and left lol. Oh and hopefully Gin kills Kreig, or he just disappears/dies offscreen, I can only see him come back as comedic relief but even then meh. I really don't think Arlong is coming back at all but that's where I can be proven wrong. It might just be me but Oda putting him in jail compared to no real explanation about where Kuro went and not a mention of him since(in the manga atleast) gives Kuro better chances than a racist fishman.
I like the idea of SH stories playin out in the anime but I think it's unlikely, fans may really want to see it and some may actually not care for what's going on now in the manga but I think it'd be a good thing for Oda to not show anything they're doing and jst give us the results. To me it's the closest he'd get to a time skip and he'd still be able to chang them w/e way he wants….
I wish they'd make the queen a pretty crossdresser, but the silhouette doesn't seem like it'd be.
@dirt:
Mm … this might actually work against Impel Down.
If Luffy and crew do manage to get through Level 4 to Level 5, they've already beaten the main forces, so going up will be easier.
I'd let them try to get Ace, and then hit 'em when they're even more tired.
I somewhat expect Marines to send backups now that the break through is confirmed. Who knows we may even get to see Akainu and whatever the case I dont think it will be easier to go out I think it will be harder but lets wait and see…
I just can't get over the words Buggy used. Whatever you say Ace/Croc/Jinbei don't seem "monsters so evil that must be erased from history". No matter what, thety jut don't fit the description. I still see them to be in level 5, what we'll witness in level 6 will exceed any of our expectations, someone so powerful/evil/dangerous that'll make Ace or Croc look like little fries.
So wait, a guy who's responsible for a rebellion where 2 million people are engaging in meaningless slaughter, who's firing a bomb with an explosion radius of 5 Kilometers directly into a huge mass of people AND willingly offers the lives of his own men without a second thought is not an evil monster to you? Wozwa, you really scare the shit out of me then. ;)
And I repeat on this entire "evil monster" thing. It is the WG's point of view since it is their prison that imprisons what they consider to be criminals. Heck, even Luffy with all his Enies Lobby invading, Shichibukai defeating, Tenryuubito punching and Impel Down penetrating actions is an evil monster in the eyes of the WG. Let's not forget that we're talking about people that annihilate an island because they consider archeologic researches an evil thing. There's no way they don't consider Ace an evil monster because he's a high ranked Whitebeard Pirate. The WG wouldn't go in an all out war with the Whitebeards Pirates if they wouldn't consider them to be evil. No offense, but you're reading a totally different story then us if you don't get that concept of the matter of perspective here.
I reread and reread the second half of your post but couldn't make sense of it. Mainly because you speak of Mr.3 who I didn't even nominate, moreso because I'm saying your exact same thing.
I used Mr. 3 as an example but apparently that didn't work well. So I'll just drop that example here before it get's even more confusing.^^
Phoenix Zoan said Croc couldn't be in level 5 cause that's a level for 100+ and he had a bounty of 81 milions, so by logic (even though I don't see any logic in this…) he should be in level 6 (that's what he said).
As I just stated in this very post, Crocodile very much has lots of cruel things for which he can easily be considered a monster to the WG. His bounty didn't matter as much as the actions he took in the end. And this is where I get back to the Teach example. Just imagine for one second that Teach runs wild on the WG and gets imprisoned because of it. Would you really throw him in Level 1, just because he has a bounty of zero Belly? Wouldn't someone who's able to take down Flame Fist Ace in a one on one fight rather belong to the highest security level instead even if he has no bounty to begin with?
Phoenix Zoan said Croc couldn't be in level 5 cause that's a level for 100+ and he had a bounty of 81 milions, so by logic (even though I don't see any logic in this…) he should be in level 6 (that's what he said).
I countered that by saying that Mr.2 had a bounty of 32 milions, yet he was in level 3 which is for criminals with more than 50 milions on their heads. In fact I was stating the same exact thing you said: bounty =/= threat & power.
Besides Oda said the WG would have at least doubled Croc's bounty (162 milions) if they knew what he was doing, qualifying him for level 5 anyway.
Nah that wasn't what I said exactly. Let me clarify. I was going on about if the levels where based soley on bounties but not any different factors. Then since Croc has a bounty of 81 he should be on level 4 and not level 5. But considering he isn't on level 4 but whatever level Ace is at (level 6 according to me and Oda's foreshadowing) it's because he's a exception to the rule. He's a former Shichibuka so his bounty is moot. He'll be at a higher level. He'll be on the same floor as Ace and Jinbei (another Shichibukai). As for what Oda said. He's already captured. I don't think they raise your bounty after your already imprisoned. So technically his bounty should still be 81m. Going back to ID. Level 5 is for bounties passing 100m. Those 3 would be the exception to that floor as well. 2 Shichibukai and WB 2nd Division Commander. Logically you would put those 3 at your highest (in this case lowest) floor since they're at a higher tier than your average 100m+ pirate. Which would be level 6.
As for Mr.2. People are speculating that after the 32m bounty he may of gotten a off panel bounty raise since he attacked Hina during the rescue in the cover story. But I would think he's also a exception as well. They put them not by their bounty but by their rank in Baroque works. Mr. 1 is probably at level 4. Going by this Mr. 0 should be at level 5 but wait he's still a former Shichibukai so that ranking thing should stop there. He's still a special exception. So he's goes on your maximum level or the floor you would put your other Shichibukai. Now Shichibukai's are special. BB has a bounty of 0. Would you put him on level 1. Or your maximum floor. Ace is also a exception as well. He's not only WB 2nd Division commander but your centerpiece to your whole trap. He's very important and should be placed accordingly. Logically if your going to put someone that important into a prison. Would you put him on your 2nd to last floor or the last floor of your prison.
Now going to the monsters vanished from the annals of history. I don't think Buggy was talking about the big 3 as monsters vanished from history. Of course if you were to put a valued prisoner like Ace it'll be on that secret floor that nobody knows about. You'll want to make sure he's as secure as possible. You have to protect your centerpiece and that'll be a rumored place to keep him as Buggy theorized in his rumor. Ace and Jinbei don't really fit that becuase they're only going to temporary be there. They're only passing through. Well it could just be a play on words and Ace would be considered a monster to the WG. So it works loosely. I guess Croc can sorta be considered a monster they would want to vanish from history. He has been there since the end of the Arablasta arc. He's also a former Shichibukai that was defeated and tried to revive the ancient weapon Pluton. That's something the WG is against. Well they're okay with it if they're using the weapon. But if it's someone else like a pirate then you're a enemy of the WG. Someone they would want to get rid of. Probably not execute him (well he is still alive) but just lock him up forever. Well now thinking about what I wrote he does sorta fall under a monster vanished from the annal of history. The WG has already gotten a new Shichibukai to replace him and left him to rot in a prison. But then again going to what I originally said if it's not one of them, then it's someone long thought to be dead, people who know about the void history dubbed monsters or legendary pirates.
With Magellan, if he's a paramecia. Since he's attackable, Luffy's Gear attacks should be efficient enough to deal with him. A Gear 3rd attack should probably do him in. But like the battle with Croc. It'll be a battle against time if he gets inflicted with the poison. He'll have to find a antidote before he dies. Now if Magellan is a Logia then Luffy will indeed have problems unless he already knows how to use Haki since he'll wasted alot of time trying to figure out Magellan's weakness so that he can actually physically attack him. Which would be really bad since the poison will be affecting his body as he tries to figure it out. Anyways if Magellan does fall on level 4. Knowing how this arc has been playing out as a guantlet where the levels get harder and harder as the lower we go. Shonenwise they'll recruit more people at level 5 (Supernovas?, Okama Queen, Ace/Jinbei if they are at level 5) to help them deal with higher tier foes on level 5. Then they'll recruit the monsters or may end up fighting one of the monsters erased from history on level 6. Hell for all we know there could be another mini ambush with VCs or a Admiral (Akainu) guarding the "rumored" underwater exit or Ace's cell.
@Zik:
The exception, is Kuro, and because of that I could see him coming back with a bigger bounty pissed the fuck off since he HAS to once again be a pirate being constantly pursued by the marines. Now, yes he's smart enough to easily make up another plan and succeed this time but revenge would be a good enough reason for him to return to the story stronger and more badass but I dunno maybe that's typical or predictable.
i dont think this would be any good for the story.. can
t see the point why some of you want old main villains to return..
i mean okay they can be stronger…but as strong as luffy is know?....which monster training and improvement of their skills should be happend??...also one time defeated should be enough...i mean oda loves his old charas for comedy effects, but new main villains...i mean cmon we have enough of new strong charas.. gin could surely make a reapppeareance ,would like to see him...but where?? in the new world it could be... but than again how could it be explained that an old villain who couldn
t defeat luffy before even using gears, now could actually survive the new world...sooo much to the "pirate grave"..why not sending Helmeppo to the new world :happy:
I can probably see Gin returning since he did tell Sanji he'll see him again. We'll probably get an update on Don Kreig from him when he appears again. Kuro or Morgan will probably show up (if they ever appear again) in a Where are they now? cover story. Don't really see those two reappearing in the New World.
@Don:
i don
t think this would be any good for the story.. can
t see the point why some of you want old main villains to return..
i mean okay they can be stronger…but as strong as luffy is know?....which monster training and improvement of their skills should be happend??
How could zoro become so strong? They are all monsters luffy sanji and zoro. Why do you think gin cannot become super strong? Apparently it's ok to lift weights every day and you will become as strong as zoro… Apparently it's enough to have adventures to keep your power level like luffy or even improve. There are enough possibilities out there to become super strong.
I can probably see Gin returning since he did tell Sanji he'll see him again. We'll probably get an update on Don Kreig from him when he appears again. Kuro or Morgan will probably show up (if they ever appear again) in a Where are they now? cover story. Don't really see those two reappearing in the New World.
Gin re-appearing is a given as far as I'm concerned. At least for him a power up makes sense considering that his interaction with the Strawhats changed his attitude totally which in the OP world is a solid base for big improvement. Koby and Helmeppo are prime examples of that. Morgan and Kuro on the other hand didn't seem to have had a change of heart because of their experiences with the Strawhats. They appear to have left as the same they were before. Though I do think that we'll see Morgan again if only for Helmeppo to arrest him.;)
So wait, a guy who's responsible for a rebellion where 2 million people are engaging in meaningless slaughter, who's firing a bomb with an explosion radius of 5 Kilometers directly into a huge mass of people AND willingly offers the lives of his own men without a second thought is not an evil monster to you? Wozwa, you really scare the shit out of me then. ;)
A monster worth being erased from history? Nope, not at all. Crocodile definitely isn't the only pirate/criminal to kill underlings and he probably isn't the only one to try destroy a city or nation before with so many bounties above 162 mil. With guys like Kidd running around(who we know must have butchered thousands upon thousands of people to be officially deemed a greater thread than luffy), plus people who likely have destroyed cities or entire nations before, Crocs actions seem common and maybe even unimpressive on a global scale. If anything the WG would want to get the word out people like this are in their custody punished daily as an example of their strength to the worlds population as much as possible.
And I repeat on this entire "evil monster" thing. It is the WG's point of view since it is their prison that imprisons what they consider to be criminals. Heck, even Luffy with all his Enies Lobby invading, Shichibukai defeating, Tenryuubito punching and Impel Down penetrating actions is an evil monster in the eyes of the WG. Let's not forget that we're talking about people that annihilate an island because they consider archeologic researches an evil thing. There's no way they don't consider Ace an evil monster because he's a high ranked Whitebeard Pirate. The WG wouldn't go in an all out war with the Whitebeards Pirates if they wouldn't consider them to be evil. No offense, but you're reading a totally different story then us if you don't get that concept of the matter of perspective here.
Except it wasn't a WG member who called the prisoners of level 6 monsters. In the context we were given it seemed these individuals are monsters even among the killers, thieves, and rebels of Impel Down. Really referring to a person as a monster is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. The vast majority of pirates(even Luffy) are just agitations to the marines, not people they'd personally consider monsters.
The people of Ohara were said to be demons in the newspapers to make them sound like world destroying terrorists so it would be easy to cover-up who they really were and what they were doing. In that context a monster should be somebody extremely influential, extremely knowledgable, extremely powerful, or all of these. People who can effect the world with a simple rumor of their existence.
Not random thugs who are apparently weaker than Ace, Croc, and Jinbei, who themselves seem a stretch to call monsters you'd want wiped from everyone memory. Not people who are allowed visitors (Boa, Momonga, Ace, Jinbei) that then go on with their lives(sans Ace). These aren't people who are likely to talk but allowing anyone to go to level 6 and back to real life undermines the notion these prisoners are so bad the government wants them erased from history.
A monster worth being erased from history? Nope, not at all. Crocodile definitely isn't the only pirate/criminal to kill underlings and he probably isn't the only one to try destroy a city or nation before with so many bounties above 162 mil.
The fact that he was looking for Pluton might have helped.
A monster worth being erased from history? Nope, not at all. Crocodile definitely isn't the only pirate/criminal to kill underlings and he probably isn't the only one to try destroy a city or nation before with so many bounties above 162 mil. With guys like Kidd running around(who we know must have butchered thousands upon thousands of people to be officially deemed a greater thread than luffy), plus people who likely have destroyed cities or entire nations before, Crocs actions seem common and maybe even unimpressive on a global scale. If anything the WG would want to get the word out people like this are in their custody punished daily as an example of their strength to the worlds population as much as possible.
Lol what? He's the only really criminal villain so far who actually tried to revive an Ancient Weapon. The Oharan's were only framed but had no such intention. Crocodile definitely aimed to do so to gain military power. So far there's not a single villain in One Piece who tried to achieve that. And I'd be cautios with using Kidd as example. So far I haven't seen anything that proves that he's more vicious then Crocodile. Actions speak louder then words. Kuma is also called the Tyrant but didn't really show any fitting behaviour for it yet. So far Crocodile strikes as one if not the most evil antagonist in One Piece.
Except it wasn't a WG member who called the prisoners of level 6 monsters.
Which doesn't change that he can't be influenced by the propaganda. Unless of course Buggy didn't meet these people personally, he is bound to follow second hand info at some point.
Anyways, no offense but I find this discussion ridiculous. Crocodile is a former Shichibukai, Jinbei still a present member of the same group. Ace is a high ranked crewmate of one of the Yonkoh. These are all part of the Three Great Powers. If that is not monster material I ask you seriously, what is?
Actually who informed the WG that croc was aiming for pluton? Alabastas king? Robin? Or who?
Cause i can't remember it… And if noone besides the king luffy croc and robin or even vivi knew about his intentions then
why would the government know about it if noone told them?
Something bothers me. Why would the king tell the WG about the poneglyph in hos palace? Won't the government be mad at him for hiding it there and try to arrest him? I can see them trying to collect all the stones and bring them to a more "secure" place. So i don't know if the government even knew that croc qas trying to revive one of the ancient weapons.
can`t see the point why some of you want old main villains to return..
Hrm? Who said anything about strength? Who even said they have to be an antagonist? Do you really think Croc is going to have some major drawn out duel with Luffy showcasing his 'power-up'?
No.
It's just interesting to see how they might be utilized in the story.
Having read the discussion, I believe Croc, Ace, Jinb and Okama Queen are on level 5. Why would they want to erase them from history when two of them are only there temporarily. No I think level 6 is for something worse that's more secretive and mysterious, and I don't think the ID staff even goes down there and let visitors down there.
They want to erase these people from history, but sure Momonga and Hancock come on down and visit these people.
and did the idiot prisoners that were shouting things to Hancock while she was visiting Ace seem like level 6 material? Didn't even seem like level 5ers to me, so I hardly think that was level 6. Either that, or Buggy's explanation of the rumored level 6 was way off.
In the defense of the crazy prisoners on level 5, even though it may seem like they're too stupid to be Level 5 material, they are after all pirates(most likely) and criminals. These guys don't care what you think of them and when they saw Boa Hancock….well, you can imagine what they were thinking. Why not shout and go crazy? In addition to Hancock's Mero powers and her world renowned beauty these guys barely get to see women any more. Go to any prison and I bet yelling and what not is pretty common.
Having read the discussion, I believe Croc, Ace, Jinb and Okama Queen are on level 5. Why would they want to erase them from history when two of them are only there temporarily. No I think level 6 is for something worse that's more secretive and mysterious, and I don't think the ID staff even goes down there and let visitors down there.
They want to erase these people from history, but sure Momonga and Hancock come on down and visit these people.
and did the idiot prisoners that were shouting things to Hancock while she was visiting Ace seem like level 6 material? Didn't even seem like level 5ers to me, so I hardly think that was level 6. Either that, or Buggy's explanation of the rumored level 6 was way off.
See, this is the best reason as to why Ace and Jimbei aren't at level six. Being that level six is for "monster to be erased from history," it's probably not a smart place to put temporary prisoners.
Plus, level 6 is rumored to be the last level. So, why give it away so soon, when Buggy seemed to suggest is was a rumor?
Really, I think this theory is based off impatience. And frankly, having level 6 already be that place spoils the intrigue of this as of yet unknown floor. For all we know, a "place to erare people from history" might mean it's a giant killing floor or something, or the maybe they freeze those prisoners alive? Think outside the box, it might not be a place that the guards can easily remove prisoners from.
Lol what? He's the only really criminal villain so far who actually tried to revive an Ancient Weapon. The Oharan's were only framed but had no such intention. Crocodile definitely aimed to do so to gain military power. So far there's not a single villain in One Piece who tried to achieve that. And I'd be cautios with using Kidd as example. So far I haven't seen anything that proves that he's more vicious then Crocodile. Actions speak louder then words. Kuma is also called the Tyrant but didn't really show any fitting behaviour for it yet. So far Crocodile strikes as one if not the most evil antagonist in One Piece.
So? What do Croc's intentions have to do with anything? He still has no particular knowledge of those weapons and failed to get it. Really don't see how Croc's evilness became the issue here. Do the marines even know Pluton was included in his plan? If they did, Ao Kiji's comment on not taking the SH seriously afterward really undermines the idea the government view Crocodile such highly a threat they'd put him not on 4, as his bounty would indicate, or 5, where they house the worst of the worst(officially), but there level 6 prison that they pretend doesn't exist.
Which doesn't change that he can't be influenced by the propaganda. Unless of course Buggy didn't meet these people personally, he is bound to follow second hand info at some point.
What?
Anyways, no offense but I find this discussion ridiculous. Crocodile is a former Shichibukai, Jinbei still a present member of the same group. Ace is a high ranked crewmate of one of the Yonkoh. These are all part of the Three Great Powers. If that is not monster material I ask you seriously, what is?
Why do you keep putting emphasis on the monster, leaving the last part out? In the grand scheme of things NO. Ace&Jinbei are not such hot-shit individually. They're just 2 random really strong dudes.
High ranking person in Dragon's organization, former admiral, Rayleigh, former Yonkou, WB's former firstmate, random person like Enel but much stronger, someone with vast knowledge of the void century, and a credible example Tiger Fisher. Not saying we'll see TF, just that he seems more the material than a guy the government made a deal with because they want people to know who he is(Jinbei) and a man who is currenly front page news(Ace).
He climbed the red line, rampaged through their holy city(likely taking out numerous Tenryuubito&very high ranking marines), and freed thousands of slaves and only then was he possibly restrained. Definitely seems the type of person the government would rather have people forget.
I'm kind of finding it hard to not take offense at you calling my post ridiculous after bringing up many points including some that answer your pre-answered your question. They likely want people to remember Ace forever if they were to succeed in ending the pirate age. They'd want people to know a former Schichibukai is sitting in level 5(there official prison for the worst of the worst) for disobeying their commands(especially future warlord candidates).
What they don't want people to know of is the existence of men so powerful they do as they please because the government simply cannot control them without extreme expenditures in resources. Men who have openly defied them and brought the fight to their doorstep. Prisoners too strong for any conventional torture(like not even bruising from a direct blow from a certain spiked mace), and intimidate even magellan&the demon guards despite being restrained.
@ryuksgelus absolutely right. Great post. That's exactly the hype behind level 6 right now and that's how we should describe the prisoners no the monsters there. And that's what i expect from this level if it exists. I am shocked to see that people consider Croc to be such a great threat that he would be put at level 6…. I he was defeated by a rookie. I bet that the marines has many capable fighters who could handle croc easily... When we're talking about monsters imo we're talking about fighters of WBs level or at least people who have his knowledge about the world... Ace isn't that strong compared to WB Rayleigh or legends like that. He was even defeated by a DF user.
We're talking about people with vast ambitions people who know how dfs work and people who aren't scared at all...
So? What do Croc's intentions have to do with anything? He still has no particular knowledge of those weapons and failed to get it. Really don't see how Croc's evilness became the issue here. Do the marines even know Pluton was included in his plan? If they did, Ao Kiji's comment on not taking the SH seriously afterward really undermines the idea the government view Crocodile such highly a threat they'd put him not on 4, as his bounty would indicate, or 5, where they house the worst of the worst(officially), but there level 6 prison that they pretend doesn't exist.
Huh, isn't ones evil intention something on what you base if somebody is an evil person or not?
What?
Was written that confusing? I merely said that unless somebody doesn't have first hand information he/she is bound to expect rumors to be true. So yes, Buggy might not be a WG person, but unless he doesn't know better he will have to believe the rumors that everybody imprisoned in the deepest level has to be the worst evil you can imagine. That's all.
Why do you keep putting emphasis on the monster, leaving the last part out? In the grand scheme of things NO. Ace&Jinbei are not such hot-shit individually. They're just 2 random really strong dudes.
Huh? What last part are you talking about? And you yourself are leaving an important part out. Or why did you leave my argument with the Three Great Powers out? Seriously, if there's bigger cheese then members of the Three Great Powers who are imprisoned at Impel Down, please name them.
True, Dragon is the worst criminal in the world. But is he at Impel Down? No. True, Fisher Tiger did a big crime. But is he at Impel Down? No. True, Rayleigh is the Pirate King's right hand man. But is he imprisoned at Impel Down? No. What I'm trying to say here is that albeit there are bigger fish out there in the see then Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei, none of them seems to be an Impel Down prisoner so far. So it's a bit pointless to argue with them, if they are far from being captured. In order to determine the highest security prisoners we can only work with what's actually imprisoned at Impel Down. And of what we know so far Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei seem to be pretty much at the top because, as I stated before, they are part of the Three Powers that keep the world in balance.
… I am shocked to see that people consider Croc to be such a great threat that he would be put at level 6.... I he was defeated by a rookie...
By whom he was defeated isn't that much of a matter. The matter of fact is that was the mastermind that put a country into a rebellion where 2 million people engaged into war. I'm actually shocked to see that people think that a person who does such things is not to be considered one of the worst scum you have in prison. Are you trying to say that when I rob a grocery store I have to become a higher security prisoner then guys like Saddam Hussein or Slobodan Milošević? I mean hey, after all I could have kicked those guys asses two if they were alone. Does that mean they are not so bad because a rookie like me could defeat them?
How could zoro become so strong? They are all monsters luffy sanji and zoro. Why do you think gin cannot become super strong? Apparently it's ok to lift weights every day and you will become as strong as zoro… Apparently it's enough to have adventures to keep your power level like luffy or even improve. There are enough possibilities out there to become super strong.
:) sure he could but why he isnt than a supernova, why should it be good for the story to have an old villain reappear so that he is now stronger than luffy who defeated him already\(or for gin it was clear that luffy wasn
t weaker at the point they first met)..
and again why should an old villain have more improvement than luffy or zorro after all their adventures…when it is so easy to be weaker than luffy than improve(cause of 23h a day training) more than luffy in less time so that you could beat him,so why oda not always pulling the same villains again and again with powerups..
cause it`s damn boring...also in DB a modified tao baibai(cyborg-mode) seemed to have improved..was he cause of this now again a worthy match..:getlost:
old villain with new power will never reach the level of luffys power, cause it would tell us...omg every1 luffy defeated on his journey could NOW be stronger than the pirateking orso...how could i be sure luffy is now at the end the strongest??:happy:
Hrm? Who said anything about strength? Who even said they have to be an antagonist? Do you really think Croc is going to have some major drawn out duel with Luffy showcasing his 'power-up'?
No.
It's just interesting to see how they might be utilized in the story.
Why do you think gin cannot become super strong?
here some1 said something about strenght :)
and i just pointed out ,that i never could see them as antagonists again
@by:
also one time defeated should be enough…i mean oda loves his old charas for comedy effects
, and yeah iam with you, for comedy-effect or to guide them to new adventures, old villains are well used..
but again i was talking more about main villains who should reappear (and here maybe as fighters)…
i mean for that are the coverstorys and when they should be in the actual storyline than never ever as some1 who fights against luffy
@by:
but than again how could it be explained that an old villain who couldn`t defeat luffy before even using gears, now could actually survive the new world…sooo much to the "pirate grave"
thats the reason i cant see so much old charas(speaking here of eastblue guys) reappear in the future…how could they actually survive.. i mean okay corby\helmeppo are with garp and they
re becoming pretty good fighters
buggy..was still a gol.D- crewmember and should be able to survive the GL
but others...i mean hacchi also comes from the GL and had at least expierence
but now kuro and krieg and morgan??..i mean krieg couldnt survive a weekon the GL...and now he "could" reappear in the new world....NEVER! also kuro\morgaon i see no chance..can
t see their a comedy effect which in the end could explain HOW they survived the GL and actually passed FI when even the strawhats have with so much powerups that much problems
only gin in my eyes could be somehow in the NW with an acceptable crew(with kaidou maybe :) orso
besides him even old GL-charas now in the new world..nahh cant see any chance for them to survive..the new world should be REALLY A PIRATE GRAVE in my eyes, who you couldn
t just survive as easy as the GL seemed to be.....
Ivotas, just because Crocodile did something really bad doesn't mean that the WG would "want history to forget about them." Rebellions, betrayals, and government controversy happens. Why would the WG care that people know about these? It's impossible to hide these things. There's no reason for Croc to be buried down so far that people forget about him.
We already know that the WG has some big secrets, mainly relating to the void history. I don't think "strength" is as much a requirement for level 6, since it's true that Ace is probably one of the strongest people in the world. Rather, I think people who can really, really hurt the WG are kept in level 6.
I'm thinking of Tom, the Ohara people, and maybe any civilization related to the void history. Dragon would be a good choice if he were in fact captured, but there's a chance that other revolutionaries are down there. Basically, I'm thinking that you're going about this all wrong. Ace, while a powerful pirate, is someone who they both want to use to lure Whitebeard and if possible publicly execute. He doesn't fight Buggy's description.
@ryuksgelus absolutely right. Great post. That's exactly the hype behind level 6 right now and that's how we should describe the prisoners no the monsters there. And that's what i expect from this level if it exists. I am shocked to see that people consider Croc to be such a great threat that he would be put at level 6…. I he was defeated by a rookie. I bet that the marines has many capable fighters who could handle croc easily… When we're talking about monsters imo we're talking about fighters of WBs level or at least people who have his knowledge about the world… Ace isn't that strong compared to WB Rayleigh or legends like that. He was even defeated by a DF user.
We're talking about people with vast ambitions people who know how dfs work and people who aren't scared at all...
Dude, Croc deserves more credit then that. Only the shicihbukai, admirals, and a few rare people like Lucci should be able to fight him.
And, at the same time it's selling Luffy too short to call him a rookie. It's an insult after we've seen all this guy do.
@Ivotas
in the real world croc would have already be sentenced to death or to life sentence and labeled as the world worst criminal. But we're in one piece and there is surely more cruel people out there who are much more powerful than croc and more intelligent than him.
I tend to separate the real world issues and one piece cause this things are completely different. There is so much you can do in OP that won't work in the real world. Think about Pell… He survived! The bomb you are describing that is so terrifying appears as unnecessary after seeing that pell survived. I mean if he had died your argument would be ok. But he was carrying the bomb and still survived the explosion which was meant to kill million of people. I guess the OP threat level cannot be compared to the real worlds one.
Ivotas, just because Crocodile did something really bad doesn't mean that the WG would "want history to forget about them." Rebellions, betrayals, and government controversy happens. Why would the WG care that people know about these? It's impossible to hide these things. There's no reason for Croc to be buried down so far that people forget about him.
Wait, what are we discussing right now actually? The phrasing "buried deep down to be erased from history" or the "level where all the big bad boys are keept"? I was so far always making arguments for Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei belonging there because being part of the Three Powers (aswell as Crocodile displaying quite some skill in plotting the take over of a country) belong to the, let's call it toughest level. The erase them from the history statement I never considered something which is going to be taken literal.
@ryuksgelus absolutely right. Great post. That's exactly the hype behind level 6 right now and that's how we should describe the prisoners no the monsters there. And that's what i expect from this level if it exists. I am shocked to see that people consider Croc to be such a great threat that he would be put at level 6…. I he was defeated by a rookie. I bet that the marines has many capable fighters who could handle croc easily... When we're talking about monsters imo we're talking about fighters of WBs level or at least people who have his knowledge about the world... Ace isn't that strong compared to WB Rayleigh or legends like that. He was even defeated by a DF user.
We're talking about people with vast ambitions people who know how dfs work and people who aren't scared at all...
That would be a great post if it wasn't for the fact Buggy's hyped up level 6 as Ace's floor. The very same floor that houses those monsters erased from history. So like I was saying earlier, if you don't believe Buggy's rumor than you also have to disregard the rumor of level 6 exists containing monsters erased from history along with Ace. You can't selective believe one only since it's a two package deal rumor.
As for people arguing that the prisoners that hollered at Boa are considered weak since the big 3 didn't. Seriously guys its a fucking prison with pirates What do you expect guys to do if a hot girl was to come walk by. Offer to shake her hand and buy her flowers or shout obscene remarks at her. Now going back to the infatuation of Hancock and those weak prisoners. People don't seem to realize this but we infact have 5 people so far in this arc that didn't lust for Boa. Jinbei, Croc, Ace, Hannybal, and Domino. Do people consider those two at the same tier as the former 3. I shouldn't even ask this duh question since most people already assume Magellan to be stronger than Domino and Hannybal who basically forgot he was running a prison that had a serious problem since all he was thinking about was Hancock.
@Ivotas
in the real world croc would have already be sentenced to death or to life sentence and labeled as the world worst criminal. But we're in one piece and there is surely more cruel people out there who are much more powerful than croc and more intelligent than him.
So please name these more evil guys. Don't you really get what I'm playing at here? I'm aware that there is even more dangerous guys. But unless they are not Impel Down prisoners you have to put the next best thing in the "strongest level".
I have no doubts that if alive and/or captured, guys like Roger, Fisher Tiger, Newgate and Dragon would be in a deeper level then Ace, Crocodile and Jinbei. I never argued that. But the point is, that such guys are not Impel Down prisoners (at least it doesn't appear like that so far). So why is it so hard to swallow that those three are at the deepest level if they appear to be among the toughest stuff we've seen so far?
Huh, isn't ones evil intention something on what you base if somebody is an evil person or not?
K? Totally irreverent to any point I was making. Croc simply doesn't seem dangerous enough to warrant being put in level 6 because his actions likely weren't that special on a global scale of events regardless of what intentions he had.
Was written that confusing? I merely said that unless somebody doesn't have first hand information he/she is bound to expect rumors to be true. So yes, Buggy might not be a WG person, but unless he doesn't know better he will have to believe the rumors that everybody imprisoned in the deepest level has to be the worst evil you can imagine. That's all.
Yes it was for 2 reasons. First wording 2nd, I have never understood the idea of trying to decipher how a character received their information. Oda had him say that to tell us from the get-go that there is a level beneath 5 for people far more dangerous than bounty-heads like Luffy. So I still don't get the relevance of this point.
Huh? What last part are you talking about? And you yourself are leaving an important part out. Or why did you leave my argument with the Three Great Powers out? Seriously, if there's bigger cheese then members of the Three Great Powers who are imprisoned at Impel Down, please name them.
The "erased from history part". Part I've been repeating over and over again?
How did I leave it out? I clearly stated neither Jinbei nor Ace are that important or even dangerous individually. They're both small parts of the world powers. Ace is one guy out of the 10 big-shots we know of among the Yonkou crews. Jinbei is one Shichibukai, which is a title that seems highly overrated at this point.
Moria's comments about there being plenty of candidates to replace Croco and Croc's comments on many silver medalist imply they're plenty of people in the New world powerful enough to be Shichibuaki who simply weren't picked or have no use/want for the title. The only people the WG have ever remotely refferred to as monsters were the people of Ohara. These people had they been allowed to live would have pass on informationt that would have effected every nation in the OP world. So when level 6 is said to house people the government considers so evil they must erased from the history books. I'm going to say they're just as influential on top of extremely powerful. Somethign the thugs truly don't seem to be.
True, Dragon is the worst criminal in the world. But is he at Impel Down? No. True, Fisher Tiger did a big crime. But is he at Impel Down? No. True, Rayleigh is the Pirate King's right hand man. But is he imprisoned at Impel Down? No. What I'm trying to say here is that albeit there are bigger fish out there in the see then Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei, none of them seems to be an Impel Down prisoner so far. So it's a bit pointless to argue with them, if they are far from being captured. In order to determine the highest security prisoners we can only work with what's actually imprisoned at Impel Down. And of what we know so far Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei seem to be pretty much at the top because, as I stated before, they are part of the Three Powers that keep the world in balance.
You're argument is just that since they seem the most important they must be on the secret level for uber level? That seems pretty ridiculous to me when despite being a part of the world powers, they still don't meet the criteria of being so dangerous they should be erased from history. WG would probably love to have both as highlights in history books of two of the first big-shots to fall at the begginning of the end of the pirate era.
Also the WG isn't doing a very good job of making sure the worlds population forgets these people ever existed if they allow visitors to come and see them.
By whom he was defeated isn't that much of a matter. The matter of fact is that was the mastermind that put a country into a rebellion where 2 million people engaged into war. I'm actually shocked to see that people think that a person who does such things is not to be considered one of the worst scum you have in prison. Are you trying to say that when I rob a grocery store I have to become a higher security prisoner then guys like Saddam Hussein? I mean hey, he might have all this military power, but if he was alone I could have kicked his ass myself back then when he was alive. Isn't that equal to a rookie kicking Croc's butt?
I'll repeat…soooooooooooooo. Doing this only got him a 162 million berry and a 70 million increase for the person who stopped him. The only person since Crocs defeat to make a big deal out of Croc has been Domino. Maybe....just maybe these kinds of actions are comparable to what other level 5 prisoners have done.
Again, level 5 is where they keep the worst scum they have in the prison. Level 6 is for an entirely different kind of beast altogether....at least thats what shounen style foreshadowing would tell us.
No idea what kind of example this was supposed to be. Get your argument about "the next best thing" but the thing is 6 is suppose to be nothing but a rumor. High profile people on a level that is not supposed to exist doesn't make any sense. Whats the point in keeping it a secret then if Jinbei is one of the worst prisoners in there. Those other people can't be that special then.
Wait, what are we discussing right now actually? The phrasing "buried deep down to be erased from history" or the "level where all the big bad boys are keept"? I was so far always making arguments for Crocodile, Ace and Jinbei belonging there because being part of the Three Powers (aswell as Crocodile displaying quite some skill in plotting the take over of a country) belong to the, let's call it toughest level. The erase them from the history statement I never considered something which is going to be taken literal.
My point is that, first of all, level 6 might not necessarily be that much tougher then level 5, so the fact that these men all shichibukai or 100 million pirates might be meaningless.
From Buggy's statement, I'm guessing that level 6 might be where they keep revolutionaries, people similar from the Ohara incident, or anyone who presents the greatest risk to the WG that relate to the void history–something worse then the destruction caused by high level pirates.
So, my thinking is that Ace, Jimbei, and Croc are fine in level 5, and it's no statement of weakness that they aren't in level 6. It's just that, level 6 is something different from the others, and Ace and the like just don't meet the requirements. And for that to be true, strength must not be an issue.
I mean, level five contains 100 million and up pirates, which are seemingly the same silver medalists showed when Croc was introduced. Since we've already seen 100 million and above pirates, level 6 contain something we've not yet seen.
So, I think using our current knowledge of one piece to access this situation is a mistake, since it's just as likely that Oda will make up something new when that time comes.
Dude, Croc deserves more credit then that. Only the shicihbukai, admirals, and a few rare people like Lucci should be able to fight him.
And, at the same time it's selling Luffy too short to call him a rookie. It's an insult after we've seen all this guy do.
I won't give credit to a vilain but i accept that his plan was well thought. But again you're assuming things here. Of what do you base your statement that only a few rare people should be able to fight him. We don't know the new world. There is room for enough super strong people to appear. What make you think that regarding the level of the sea crocodile is a top tier?
Luffy is a rookie nothing will change that fact. He is new. He hasn't experience which is great cause we're learning with him. To me he is a rookie. And croc seems to know enough so i won't call him like that. I know that a lot of people here are fans of this guy. I'm not. If luffy could beat him back then when he entered the GL then his fight level isn't that great. His great plan was blocked because of luffy. If he had succeeded then he would have been great. He was unable to!
So please name these more evil guys. Don't you really get what I'm playing at here? I'm aware that there is even more dangerous guys. But unless they are not Impel Down prisoners you have to put the next best thing in the "strongest level".
I have no doubts that if alive and/or captured, guys like Roger, Fisher Tiger, Newgate and Dragon would be in a deeper level then Ace, Crocodile and Jinbei. I never argued that. But the point is, that such guys are not Impel Down prisoners (at least it doesn't appear like that so far). So why is it so hard to swallow that those three are at the deepest level if they appear to be among the toughest stuff we've seen so far?
So if i understand it correctly you are basing all your statements with the current facts we have now. So there is no room for speculation even if the temptation is great with this level 6? I'm okm with that. I predict that there are more evil guys at ID then Ace and Jimbei. I mean it's an interesting thought. I think it's boring if Ace is at level 6. Others have already said that the idiots held there are too dumb for that level and i also think so. It would be imo lame if these idiots are at level 6.
@ Ryuksgelus:
I'm not gonna quote that entire post of yours since it appears that I was completely missing the point. That said, I was mainly arguing on the point that the deepest level is what I consider the "strongest level" and that I therefore think those guys have to be there. I never knew (as I said in my response to onemoment) that it was about the "erased from history" statement, because I quite in fact considered that to be nothing that has to be taken literal.
If it however really was intended to be taken literal then you all definitely bring valid points. But there's still reasons as to why those three are there. For Croc it is obvious that with his plot he spat in the face of the WG that granted him the Shichibukai privilege. So it is in the WG's on interest to make the world forget about how much it backfired on them to make deals with such a person. As for Jinbei, he would be there to see first hand what a Shichibukai has to expect for turning on the WG. If he should ultimately turn then the WG might have the same reason to erase him from history as Crocodile. Ace on the other hand would probably just be there for the experience. Before he gets executed he's to see the worst of the worst, which would be the level where said scum is hidden. So yeah, even though I completely missed your point guys, I still think it makes sense for those three to be kept on such a level.
My point is that, first of all, level 6 might not necessarily be that much tougher then level 5, so the fact that these men all shichibukai or 100 million pirates might be meaningless.
From Buggy's statement, I'm guessing that level 6 might be where they keep revolutionaries, people similar from the Ohara incident, or anyone who presents the greatest risk to the WG that relate to the void history–something worse then the destruction caused by high level pirates.
So, my thinking is that Ace, Jimbei, and Croc are fine in level 5, and it's no statement of weakness that they aren't in level 6. It's just that, level 6 is something different from the others, and Ace and the like just don't meet the requirements. And for that to be true, strength must not be an issue.
I mean, level five contains 100 million and up pirates, which are seemingly the same silver medalists showed when Croc was introduced. Since we've already seen 100 million and above pirates, level 6 contain something we've not yet seen.
So, I think using our current knowledge of one piece to access this situation is a mistake, since it's just as likely that Oda will make up something new when that time comes.
You're selectively quoting Buggy's statement. He was going up the floors in the severity of it's prisoners. Level 5 has prisoners with bounties above 9 digits (100m+). Then he heard of a rumored floor where monsters sleep who where erased from the annals of history. He said Ace should be on the same floor as those monsters. So we really can't discredit Jinbei or Croc as not being monsters since they are on the same floor as Ace. Or discredit the others prisoners jacking off to Boa as not being not monsters since we have no idea who they are. Only thing we do know is that Ace, Croc, and Jinbei are at another tier level compared to say you're average 100+m bounty. If tier wise level 6 is higher than level 5 then Buggy's theory of that being Ace floor isn't exactly to farfetched.
Oh yeah this point right here may blow your minds. Ace, Jinbei, and Croc can be on level 6 and not discredit the whole monsters sleep who are erased from the annals of history because ZOMG they're not the only prisoners on that entire floor.
You're selectively quoting Buggy's statement. He was going up the floors in the severity of it's prisoners. Level 5 has prisoners with bounties above 9 digits (100m+). Then he heard of a rumored floor where monsters sleep who where erased from the annals of history. He said Ace should be on the same floor as those monsters. So we really can't discredit Jinbei or Croc as not being monsters since they are on the same floor as Ace. Or discredit the others prisoners jacking off to Boa as not being not monsters since we have no idea who they are. Only thing we do know is that Ace, Croc, and Jinbei are at another tier level compared to say you're average 100+m bounty. If tier wise level 6 is higher than level 5 then Buggy's theory of that being Ace floor isn't exactly to farfetched.
i think your the one who has quotes messed up.
Here are buggy quotes.
Luffy: I wanna go this "Level 5" place. Is that where Ace is?
Buggy: Hell if I know! If you wanna go, then go! Am I supposed to be your friend?!
I ain't goin' to no hellhole like that!
If you ain't leavin' now, then I'm out! Later!
Buggy: And as you go deeper, to Level 2 and Level 3, the prisoners held there get more and more vicious and dangerous!!
I was put as far as Level 4 once, to undergo inferno torture…
...but I don't know nothin' about below that!!
I HAVE heard that Level 5 is only for the very worst, the ones worth nine digits or more.
But some prisoners says there's floors even below that!!
Places where MONSTERS sleep, so terrible they had to be erased from the annals of history... It's only a rumor, but that might be where Ace is now.
Anyhow! I can only guide you to Level 4, okay?!
BUGGY has no idea where Ace is, and because Oda always likes to put "the floor Ace is being held on" we have no idea either. We can guess all we want but it is pointless.
We don't know who would be on level 6. They are erased from history as buggy said, so how would we know of them. I mean did we know of such things as Odz before he was introduced? Hell no. All we know of are the 4 yonkou, Revolutinoaries, and the 11 supernova's. The rest of this HUGE PIRATE age is a mystery to us. And I'm pretty sure there are more than 10 pirate crews in this big age.
I won't give credit to a vilain but i accept that his plan was well thought. But again you're assuming things here. Of what do you base your statement that only a few rare people should be able to fight him. We don't know the new world. There is room for enough super strong people to appear. What make you think that regarding the level of the sea crocodile is a top tier?
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His great plan was blocked because of luffy. If he had succeeded then he would have been great. Oh come on, you're really trying to sell Croc for less then he's worth here. True, on the surface Luffy is just a rookie. But as readers at least know that we're talking about the future Pirate King here.
Besides, that silver medalist statement by Crocodile pretty much indicates that he's one of those guys who lost to either Roger or Newgate. Otherwise he wouldn't be that enthusiastic. Does losing to the world's stronges man make him automatically low tier?
Last but not least, the WG wouldn't offer him the Shichibukai position if they don't expect him to be able to stand in a fight against the Yonkoh. Wasn't the entire point of creating the Shichibukai to have such a force to create a balance? If he's not fitting to do so, why make him part of it?
So if i understand it correctly you are basing all your statements with the current facts we have now. So there is no room for speculation even if the temptation is great with this level 6? I'm okm with that. I predict that there are more evil guys at ID then Ace and Jimbei. I mean it's an interesting thought. I think it's boring if Ace is at level 6. Others have already said that the idiots held there are too dumb for that level and i also think so. It would be imo lame if these idiots are at level 6.
Of course I'm basing my statements on current facts? On what else should I base them?
Btw, I don't disagree that there might not be even more evil guys on that level. After all, the WG didn't build this level years ago just for these three guys. The main thing I'm saying is that those three guys belong there. Or in other words, Ace, Crocodile and Jinbei are more in their element on this level then in any other level. Get what I mean? ;)