Yo Did You Put A Hurtful Word In Front Of A Sentence, I Aint Readin' That Shit.
Do you believe in god?
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oh god. I came in here to laugh at this thread, but it's just too sad. Why does everyone always have to act like such an ass.
I think this post is the best post in this thread.@SombreroDPaja:
I believe there must be something out there but not God as in many of you might think of.
In general I'm somewhat respectful when it comes to the beliefs of someone else.
this thread will be locked by the time I wake up in the morning.
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oh god. I came in here to laugh at this thread, but it's just too sad. Why does everyone always have to act like such an ass.
I think this post is the best post in this thread.this thread will be locked by the time I wake up in the morning.
You might say they're acting like Hitler.
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Knock off the name calling.
Intelligent discussion does not involve personal insults being traded.
Final warning before the pretty padlock icon appears. Got it?
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Going to Church or Mass or whatever means bullshit.
Like I said, there is merit beyond getting a life story from the priest in going to church. Religion, like death, is an equalizer (especially in Muslim society) - outside of church, you and a local circuit judge, the town mayor, the richest family in the county and a migrant farm worker are in different rungs of the socio-economic ladder. You'd never meet, talk, or work together with people like that ever outside of mass, which brings them together where social status means next to nothing.
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Like I said, there is merit beyond getting a life story from the priest in going to church. Religion, like death, is an equalizer (especially in Muslim society) - outside of church, you and a local circuit judge, the town mayor, the richest family in the county and a migrant farm worker are in different rungs of the socio-economic ladder. You'd never meet, talk, or work together with people like that ever outside of mass, which brings them together where social status means next to nothing.
Except when it doesn't.
BUTTFACE.
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Deltron please refrian from calling others names, espacially when we've jst been warned.
and found this jewel on the web.
it only makes you wanna wonder wtf is wrong with them.
http://theraptureright.com/blog/category/the-rapture-right/
check out their blogs for some of the biggest facepalms in history.
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@Deltron:
Except when it doesn't.
It's better in California.
Only until a few years ago (before Benedict XVI was elected) my parish was liberal compared even with protestant churches, it had a fantastic music/liturgy program and everyone was open/mellow. It made people want to go to church more than one day a week for two hours a day.
Since then it's decayed, but is still a pretty cool place. Even in other parishes it's cool too.
I can only imagine what goes on in other parts of the country…
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These threads in general turn people into jerks, trying to prove wrong other people's deeply held beliefs.
Really, if you're going to discuss this, you have to do it with a grain of salt. Because there's no way both sides will completely avoid any logical fallacies in their arguements for and against God.I've seen it plenty in this thread, tons of people arguing that because of how people interprete God defining if God exists or not. Whether or not the bible is the best word of God, or the most literal, if people who are religioious have done bad things or saved people's lives, all does not neccessarily affect the subject. Of course, people argue it anyway and try and say it supports their claim that "The other side is wrong, so my side is right." This and more always happens in these conversations.
For example, the crusades were religious wars fought mainly over recapturing the Holy land from the middle east control, lasted 300 years, killing many on both sides, and restaring war after war for all that time. Bad thing.
However, the culture and economic exchange between the east and the west brought about a trade in ideas which were considered to be the major cause of the Renaissance, which brought Europe out of the Dark Ages, which lasted hundreds of years longer. Good thing.
Besides the fact that most modern people religous and nonreligious consider the Crusades to be unchecked acts of agression and things like that, and take it as a lesson.In the end, it's really very hard to completely prove one way or another in cases of human error and whether or not it's God's influence or how people are choosing to believe how God wants them to act, or how they think people SHOULD act, regarless of how their doctrines say God suggests.
Such as how the general message of Jesus's teachings, which are recorded history that the person existed and started the religion, promoted peace and compassion, yet spawns bigots all the time, somehow. Actions have ideas of both sides mixed in, making our world a very complex one.I won't say where I stand, I choose to stay neutral, I hear both sides and chose how to interprete them as wrong or right like anyone else, but consider that when you start attacking specific people's beliefs. If you want to make a seperate thread qualifying the Bible or Christianty or religions or heaven and hell or specific people, that's a completely different thing.
Most importantly, people who reject one idea sometimes do so completely and choose to ignore the other side because they haven't heard of it or they like to see things simply. So be aware of that when aruing this too.By the way, I don't like these threads because of all that…
Hopes it's locked. -
Greg easily puts anyone in their place when they attempt to use baseless direct insults as a means of conveying a point.
Fixed .
Like I said, there is merit beyond getting a life story from the priest in going to church. Religion, like death, is an equalizer (especially in Muslim society) - outside of church, you and a local circuit judge, the town mayor, the richest family in the county and a migrant farm worker are in different rungs of the socio-economic ladder. You'd never meet, talk, or work together with people like that ever outside of mass, which brings them together where social status means next to nothing.
I agree. I should have been more clear.
Some people think they're 'righteous Christians' or 'devout Jews' or what have you, merely because they follow a strictly regimented practice of worship. They think that by the act of performing a weekly pattern they are being a better supporter of their faith.
ie. "I go to church every week!"
No sorry. It's what you do or don't do with that experience that makes and defines you as a member of your faith.
it only makes you wanna wonder wtf is wrong with them.
http://theraptureright.com/blog/cate…rapture-right/
check out their blogs for some of the biggest facepalms in history.
These are religious wackos. christianity isn't the only religion with fanatic followers that are so deeply entrenched in their faith, they are unwilling to question it. The onus is on them to explain their actions, not for clear-thinkers to explain for them.
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What part of my warning did not make sense? I'm in a giving mood at the moment, so the thread gets ONE MORE CHANCE. That's it.
One more comment that couldn't be ultimately broken down to, 'Well your opinion is yours, and I respect it,' and consider this thread locked. We're either supposed to be in adult-training (because, if I recall, this forum requires you to be 13 or over) or actual adults, so the name-calling stops NOW.
You got me?
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I would say the butthead comment was quite obviously a joke - aside from that, it has been pretty civil since. And 13 or over doesn't say much.
I like it when the religious right stands in the streets and tells me I'm going to hell. I can't go there if I don't believe in it. ;]
Religion has bred an interesting spectrum throughout history. On one end, we have war and corruption. On the other, we have peace and hope. In general though, I think religion does more good than it does bad. Grand religious wars are in my opinion a thing of the past.
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I'm usually an ass on here lately (I'm trying to improve, tho XD), but one thing I wont touch with a 7 1/2 foot pole is picking a fight with someone's beliefs. I have my own, and I may say them in a not so kind way, but when it comes to ones beliefs, stuffing them in someone else's face is a no go. If, as Anbu mentioned, someone blantantly starts insulting and saying I'm going to hell, I don't care if the person is holding a bible, I'll punch them in the face for being a douchebag. Extremists of anything are very annoying… tho I wont admit I've probably done it with things. I guess you have to show tolerance, I doubt I'd attack anyone for being so stupid... but man, a fist fight in the mind is nice.
Debate and arguing is unavoidable, but you gotta be careful.
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Well i would like to bring a new idea here.
Most of the main religions out there are basically good. Let me explain why. If you look at catholicism you have the 10 commandements for example. There is nothing wrong in them. MOst of them tell you what people need to do to live peacefull with each others. I think that we can say that in general each religion out there (i'm not talking about sects) what to bring people together in a community and teach them to live with some rules that will help them to do live in peace. Well why is in each religion something supernatural? I mean let's just take those 10 commandements and apply them on people without the god stuff. I don't think it wil work. If you say to someone "don't lie" he will say yes that's noble but at the end he might do it and say after that "sorry i couldn't resist". That's the nature of humans. We tend to do things that can harm others and humans are basically egoists!!!
If you just bring someone to believe that there is something out there that can strike you if you do something wrong then people will be afraid and will get a reason not to harm others etc… For example "don't lie otherwise god will judge you after your death" or "don't lie otherwise you will accumulate bad karma and you will be reborn as a stone ...". In this context it's a good fear that "force" people to do things in order to have a community that lives in harmony. I cannot blame religions for that. The whole god concept is just there to give people a good reason to follow commandements. These commandements are there to make you behave correctly. And the spirituality gives people hope that all what they've done to stay on the right way (by following these commandements and helping other people, making something good for every humans which is not an easy task since humans are egoists) is not for nothing.Now the other arguments of anti religious people. If catholicism is so good why do they hunt "witches" and burn them etc... Is it right to blame catholicism for that? I think that the one to blame for that are the people that gave the order to hunt "witches" or the people that in the name of religion begin wars. They are humans and if they really followed what their religion teach, then they wouldn't do things like that. Even a pope can become crazy. Not everyone can deal with power. Why do you think that dictators exists etc... Power makes someone with a "weak spirit" greedy! And that greed can lead to the wish of total control etc...
I hope that you get what i wanted to say. Sorry for my english!
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I would say the butthead comment was quite obviously a joke - aside from that, it has been pretty civil since. And 13 or over doesn't say much.
This is true, but just one spark can cause the forest to go ablaze.
And, sadly, the second comment is also true. But I consider that age range to be adult training. ;-)
That having been said, I agree with you about religious crazies on the street: There are people on my campus that pass out tracts. They're fun to fight with.
I once told one that I was bi, and he responded with, 'have fun with your deathstyle.'
I was dressed particularly gothy that day, so I made a comment relating to it. I'm sure you can all guess, based on stereotypes, what these comments consisted of. :-P
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But yeah, if I ever met one while walking by and they stopped me to give me a flyer, I'd simply say:
Sorry, I don't follow religion.
In a casual tone and keep on walking, but if they responded harshly like "You're going to hell." I'd get mighty pissed off cause I wasn't an ass about it or shoving it down their throats, I was simply walking by.
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I believe in God, But not all religious practices are biblical. ^_^
Let me quote the meaning of religion:
The English word religion has been in use since the 13th century, loaned from Anglo-French religiun (11th century), ultimately from the Latin religio, "reverence for God or the gods, careful pondering of divine things, piety, the res divinae"
general meaning of religion from Wikipedia.
Personal Thoughts:
Not all religious practices came from God. -
i believe in god but i dont go to church or anything all though i did go to a christian skool
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That's why he is called GOD…He have no beginning neither an end!
Only created stuff, have a beginning and an ending, So GOD was not created.
If someone created GOD, Then he won't be called God...You're missing the point.Here is a couple of stories, hopefully any atheist might get something out of it or understand the meaning of God:
The Young Man and The Scholar
There was a young man who went overseas to study for quite a long time. When he returned, he asked his parents to find him a religious scholar or an expert who could answer his 3 questions.
Finally, his parents were able to find him a Muslim scholar.
Young man: Who are you and can you answer my questions?
Scholar: I'm one of Allah's (subhana wa Ta'la) slaves and inshaAllah I will be able to answer your questions.
Young man: Are you sure because a lot of experts and scholars were unable to answer my questions.
Scholar: I will try my best
Young man: I have three questions.
1.Does GOD exist? If so show me His shape?
2.What is takdir? (Fate)
3.If shaytan (devil) is created from fire, then why will he be thrown into the hell fire in the end? It certainly will not hurt him at all, since shaytan (devil) and hell were both created from fire….
Suddenly the scholar slapped the young mans face very hard.
Young man : Why are you getting angry at me?
Scholar: I am not getting angry. The slap is my answer to all three questions.
Young man: I really don't understand
Scholar: How did you feel after I slapped you?
Young man: Of course I felt pain
Scholar: Show me the shape of pain!
Young man: I cannot
Scholar: This is my first answer. All of us feel GOD's existence without being able to see His shape. Last night did you dream that you will be slapped by me?
Young man: No
Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me today?
Young man: No
Scholar: This is takdir (fate) . My hand that I used to slap you - what is it created from?
Young man: It is created from skin
Scholar: How about your face - what is it created from?
Young man: Skin
Scholar: How did u feel after I slapped you?
Young man: Pain
Scholar: Even though shaytan (devil) and hell were both created from fire, if Allah wants, InshAllah hell will become a very painful place for the shaytan.
**The scholar is Imam Abu Hanifa.
–--------------------------------** I think this is more clear:
Once, a Bedouin was asked what made an unsophisticated man like him believe in God.
Bedouin: "Do you see these marks in the sand?"
Man: "Yes."
Bedouin: "What do they tell you?"
Man: "A camel went by."
Bedouin: "Did you see the camel?"
Man: "No, but these footprints in the sand suggest that a camel made them."
Bedouin: "Do you see these mountains?"
Man: "Yes."
Bedouin: "They are indicative to me that God made them.The same question was asked, by an atheist, of Imam Abu Hanifa and he replied, "Forget it! At the moment, I am busy thinking about this ship. People tell me there is a big ship, it contains different goods on board. There is no one to steer it, no one maintaining it. Yet, this ship keeps going back and forth; it even traverses big waves on the oceans; it stops at the locations that it is supposed to stop at; it continues in the direction that it is supposed to head. This ship has no
captain and no one planning its trips."The atheist who posed the question interrupted and exclaimed, "What kind of strange and silly thought is this? How can any intelligent person think that some thing like this can occur?"
Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it."
Hearing the reply, the atheist was left speechless but he found out more about Haqq (The Truth) and proclaimed Islam.
from www.whyislam.org
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Imam Abu Hanifa was asked by the khalifa to meet with them and an atheist so Imam Abu Hanifa could debate with him. They set a time for them to meet up. So the day and time came and left and they kept waiting for Imam Abu Hanifa until finally he came. Everyone questioned him about his being late and what happened. So he started explaining how there was river that he had to cross….and he was waiting for a boat to come and bring him on the other side of the river.
While he was waiting, the branches and leaves of the tree fell and slowly formed themselves into a boat. And he jumped in that boat crossed the river. Obviously ppl laughed at this story and the atheist asked him ‘Are you mad enough to believe that a boat was made all by itself?
Imam Abu Hanifa replied ‘Who is more mad? the one who believed that a boat was created by itself, or you who believes that the entire world is created by itself?’Source: http://www.chillyoislamyo.com/2007/10/07/imam-abu-hanifa-vs-atheist/
These were some examples of how we come to believe in god's existence, you just have to find the right path by yourself and stop being an ignorant. Fun does not last, you know.
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@Deltron:
A black man with a funny name becoming the president of the united states of america?
Racist, Obama is white.
It's better in California.
Only until a few years ago (before Benedict XVI was elected) my parish was liberal compared even with protestant churches, it had a fantastic music/liturgy program and everyone was open/mellow. It made people want to go to church more than one day a week for two hours a day.
Since then it's decayed, but is still a pretty cool place. Even in other parishes it's cool too.
I can only imagine what goes on in other parts of the country…
They fuck lil' kids up the arse.
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I don't but if I had to pick a religion, I'd pick Pastafarianism because Flying Spaghetti Monster is awesome […] .
Yar. Preach it, me hearty. More people be needin' ta spread the good word o' the One True Pasta, so that all may be touched by His Noodly Appendage. Ye be always welcome ta partake o' spaghetti and meatballs (and lots o' grog), an' to worship with sacred sea chanties while garbed in full pirate regalia. Be ye already a believer or not yet, let us break Italian bread together.
RA-men (and pass the parmesan).
! Seriously, though:
! > I used to believe but I grew up and realized I didn't need to believe.
! This.Co-Translator, Podcast Regular, and Man-in-Japan at Kanzenshuu, your authoritative Dragon Ball online resource
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@XMURADX
i don't want to blame you for your beliefs.
But imho all the little stories you have posted have nothing to do with god. There are no relations between them and the existence of god.
"we all have the feeling that god exists", "moutains are the marks for gods existence" and "thinking that the world has been build by god" that all doesn't make sense to me. This is why noone will never be able to answer the question what or who is god? Cause there is no answer at all. Many religious answers to this question are "how can we with our little brain understand god?".
In this point many religions say to us. Don't ask what it is if we say to you that you are not able to understand it. Well if they say so i guess we all should follow. Personally i don't like the idea to believe in something that i don't understand/see/hear. Well if it is just a feeling i may ask if the thing you feel is not something else? Maybe that the complexity of the world is so intimidating that people think that it must have been created and is now supervised by a allmighty being. -
@XMURADX
i don't want to blame you for your beliefs.
But imho all the little stories you have posted have nothing to do with god. There are no relations between them and the existence of god.
"we all have the feeling that god exists", "moutains are the marks for gods existence" and "thinking that the world has been build by god" that all doesn't make sense to me. This is why noone will never be able to answer the question what or who is god? Cause there is no answer at all. Many religious answers to this question are "how can we with our little brain understand god?".
In this point many religions say to us. Don't ask what it is if we say to you that you are not able to understand it. Well if they say so i guess we all should follow. Personally i don't like the idea to believe in something that i don't understand/see/hear. Well if it is just a feeling i may ask if the thing you feel is not something else? Maybe that the complexity of the world is so intimidating that people think that it must have been created and is now supervised by a allmighty being.Do You have a mind?
If yes…
Can you Touch it? Taste it? Smell it? See it?
If No...
Are you sane or Insane?
If you are a sane...
Then where is your mind?
If it exist...
Then so is GOD. Which you can't Touch him, Smell him, See him, or Taste him!
Can you show me the shape of love, pain, hatred, etc...
But if you believe that you can feel them but you can't see them, taste them, touch them, or smell them, why do you believe these emotions exist? -
Can you show me the shape of love, pain, hatred, etc…
But if you believe that you can feel them but you can't see them, taste them, touch them, or smell them, why do you believe these emotions exist?That is i think a problem. I don't believe that i feel pain or love. What i do is that i feel it. Directly. I don't feel anything that can be named as god. I can concentrate a lot but cannot feel anything mighty out there. What i feel are things that come from my personality things that give me hope. If you want to call the things that give you motivations to live "god" then i accept it.
I don't. There can be, out there, many dimensions in this universe. Who knows if in the 40-th dimension there is no living creature that has reached a state of conciousness that we cannot imagine now. But i won't call them god or anything like that… And i don't feel them. It's only speculation. And i think that people speculate that god exist cause they want to be guided through their life. So the human mind creates a mystical power that we want to believe in. Anyway my thoughts about it were posted in my previous post here. -
Can you show me the shape of love, pain, hatred, etc…
But if you believe that you can feel them but you can't see them, taste them, touch them, or smell them, why do you believe these emotions exist?Well, most non-believers believe that things like love, hatred etc. are all things caused by our brain. I personally believe something like love is more then just something our mind makes up. I believe people have a soul.. But i seriously don't believe a god exists.
Why did he deceide to create us in the first place..
are we some kind of crazy expiriment? Doesn't make any sense. -
That is i think a problem. I don't believe that i feel pain or love. What i do is that i feel it. Directly. I don't feel anything that can be named as god. I can concentrate a lot but cannot feel anything mighty out there. What i feel are things that come from my personality things that give me hope. If you want to call the things that give you motivations to live "god" then i accept it.
I don't. There can be out many dimensions in this universe. Who knows if in the 40-the Dimension there is no living creature that has reached a state of conciousness that we cannot imagine now. But i won't call them god or anything like that… And i don't feel them. It's only speculation. And i think that people speculate that god exist cause they to be guided in their life. So the human mind creates a mystical power that we want to believe in. Anyway my thoughts about it were posted in my previous post here.You are not feeling God, cause you are not doing what he asked you to do.
-Accept God as the only creator
-Pray
-Fast
-Give Charity
And you will feel God…All what you are feeling now is emptiness...A void, when I don't pray I feel a void and after I pray I get relaxed and the void gets filled.
If you skip prayers and disobey the commandments you go away from God, but when you follow them you get closer to him.
Why did he deceide to create us in the first place..
are we some kind of crazy expiriment? Doesn't make any sense.We were once in Paradise, and we got kicked out because of Satan…
And now we are given another chance, but sadly nobody realizes how merciful God is, and they always put the blame on him.And if emotions are caused by your mind, can you tell me if your mind exist...or why do you believe it exist?
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If you skip prayers and disobey the commandments you go away from God, but when you follow them you get closer to him.
I believe that they are not coming from god. With common sense and if you want tothink about rules for that group so that the humans live in peace you can easily also come to these commandements. Example : don't lie, don't kill, help the others etc…
And what happens if i obey the commandements and do not believe in any god? Imho nothing will happens. With following the commandements i help my community/society to survive.
The reason for gods existence is just to give the humans a good reason to execute these commandements. You see my point? -
Do You have a mind?
If yes…
Can you Touch it? Taste it? Smell it? See it?
If No...
Are you sane or Insane?
If you are a sane...
Then where is your mind?
If it exist...
Then so is GOD. Which you can't Touch him, Smell him, See him, or Taste him!
Can you show me the shape of love, pain, hatred, etc...
But if you believe that you can feel them but you can't see them, taste them, touch them, or smell them, why do you believe these emotions exist?again nicce metapher for explaining why god "could exist like other things"
but why should i "believe" in him now?????????????…
i mean the "ship"(earth) your example is telling us about is made, so why should i preach to the builder??? why should i preach to the captn??? i dont do that on ships normally. Do you always run to the captn "ohh thy thy and i will follow your orders without thinking about them?? you just follow orders as long as they are necassary that you can live...other orders you will ignore ... why not thinking in that way: maybe we all have paid for our trip...why not now enjoying it?? why using most of the time in praying that "iam sosooso lucky to be here" dont you miss than the ride itself?explaining something like religion or "god" with such examples as Imam Abu Haifa did seems first to be plausible and have this little "wow yeahh-effect"..but you can
t rly use them to make some1 "believe" in something...especially this "wow-effect" isnt a signal for understanding or following now the right way...or didnt also hitler produce such a "wow-effect"on many people who shouldnt think about it twice??a better way to make some1 believe is to make him afraid -->fear
or why is for example a "hell" in the Christianity ...to make the people fear to not follow the "orders" commandments ...believe what you want, but never become lazy to question what some1\thing wants that you do\believe:getlost:
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i believe in god/gods but not in the way the religions here on earth project. :D
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don't lie, don't kill, help the others etc…
These are not commandments. Even the ones who believe in God do them, then they ask for his forgiveness, but they have to accept the punishment they get for each act. These are common traits of a good honest human…Or in other words the personality of a good person, If I have a bad personality, does that mean I can't believe in God, but instead I should try to improve myself.
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XMURADX ….Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
i believe in god/gods but not in the way the religions here on earth project. :D
Martian Gods, ftw!
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@Xai:
XMURADX ….Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
I don't see any signs of it on earth to believe it exist…
@Don Quichotte De Flamingo...is life really that fun?
Pains, Death, College, Work, Raising Family, Sex (j\k...although it lasts for minutes), friends and family whom you lose or fight with, Fear, Sickness, One Piece week offs...I could go on forever...but when you will have one of those, you will definitely call God to help you.Or Paradise...No toilet (XD...very tempting), Non of the above, Something no human can imagine or ever think of.
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I don't see any signs of it on earth to believe it exist…
Really. Give me three reasons why IPU cannot exist, but your God can. But, mind you, the reasons should not be such that I could use them against you as reasons for the non-existence of your God.
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Signs of God are all over the place…Even your body is a miracle that no human can create and it's so complicated that it's functions are working perfectly.
Who is maintaining this huge world? Do you really believe the world created itself.
Never heard of messengers of God, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Them) and their revelations.
Close your eyes...Try to imagine you never existed.
IPU, is a human fiction that is created by a mere man. Which he can't make it come to life neither give it a soul.
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XMURADX,
Relax.
It's because of people getting worked up and trying to shove their religion or an explanation down the throat of everyone or anyone that criticizes their beliefs that make them look fanatical.
You cannot explain the scriptural intricacies of your beliefs and expect everyone to simply agree. It doesn't work that way.
What you can do is calmly explain the real-world effects/consequences of your beliefs and how they apply to your daily life.
When you simply explain your beliefs and it's merely met with criticism, sarcasm, pugilistic remarks or poletic tripe, it shows clearly who the more open-minded individual is. But if you BLAST people with scripture or parables or what have you, you can't expect it to have any effect or do any good.
If everyone (as in people in general) just calmed the fuck down and instead of spewing hate about religion and closing their eyes and minds to the good of it, then there could be a much more productive exchange of ideas without snide comments and arguments aimed at fueling hatred like those presented by the FSM argument and the like which more than anything, seem like vehicles for those who are anxious for revenge against religion or have a grudge against it for being dragged to church one too many times.
And if religious FOOLS stopped babbling about how 'non-believers' will burn in Hell or that gay people are evil etc. etc. and thought about what the Bible meant for its time and how it should be interpreted today, then I think we'd be able to come to a much clearer understanding of each other.
But with this thread as a microcosm for our world, no. Won't happen. Which is a shame. Both sides are way too busy waving their cocks around in the air to see that each side has valid points that could help them both grow.
And the question regarding what proof of the Christian God there is in this world.
There is none.
None whatsoever.
That's why it's called faith.
Some choose to believe that the Bible is 100% accurate. Okay, but what if it isn't?
Some choose to believe in the Resurrection. Okay, what if it didn't happen?
Some choose to believe in the AMAZING series of mechanisms that make our bodies move. Okay, but that's what millions of years to evolve will do for you.
The only thing you need to believe in the Christian God is faith. Then the most important thing is what you do with it.
People who want to believe in a FSM or unicorn can just as freely do so. But the question is, what do they do with their faith? Well, it seems a great deal of their faith is devoted towards belittling or bashing other religions. Which, if that's what faith means to them, by all means.
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I am calm…Did I sound otherwise? I apologize if I did...
I'm not trying to force anyone to believe in God, it's your choice after all, Religion that comes with hate is not a religion after all.And I very much disagree about "You Go to hell cause you don't believe in God"...
Are you a God who decides the fate of a person to make such a statement? -
Signs of God are all over the place…Even your body is a miracle that no human can create and it's so complicated that it's functions are working perfectly.
Nope ..you are imagining it to be. Your body was not made the way it is to perform the way it does - it performs that way becasue it is made that way. You do not have two legs so that you can walk upright; you can walk upright because you have two legs. There are lots of things in your body that serve no purpose whatsoever.
Who is maintaining this huge world? Do you really believe the world created itself.
Is there any reason to believe it was created by someone or somethign else? Only beacuse one cannot figure out certain things yet, does not mean one has to credit that to some unknown factor. At one time we did not know what the sun was. Why did the sun move across the sky? Where did it go at night? People started worshipping the sun as a God. Apollo rode across the sky on a chariot. sun went to sleep under the ocean at night.
Never heard of messengers of God, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Them) and their revelations.
Exactly. But never heard from God Himself. If I were to tell you that I had a vision by the Invisible Pink Unicorn who revealed to me that it is the true Creator of everything, why would you not believe me?
Close your eyes…Try to imagine you never existed.
Yeah, so? How does that prove God's existence or non-existence. There are millions of people who do not know I exist.
IPU, is a human fiction that is created by a mere man. Which he can't make it come to life neither give it a soul.
No, seriously, the IPU visited its prophets.
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@Don Quichotte De Flamingo…is life really that fun?
Pains, Death, College, Work, Raising Family, Sex (j\k...although it lasts for minutes), friends and family whom you lose or fight with, Fear, Sickness, One Piece week offs...I could go on forever...but when you will have one of those, you will definitely call God to help you.hehe you take that fun-ride statement to literally
but that was just the thing i wanted to show you…
giving a example which is based on this world to explain something which has no explanations also leads you to arguing about every little detail and totally forgetting the main issue,you see
seeing live as something like a shipright is totally wrong you agree....so why you brought an argument(which you personally find as a good argument or else you wouldnt post it)about "why god exist" with the same example..."a ship"?! and thats why we see :"it must give a builder\captn??"....hope you see thats nonsense!
"you will definitely call God to help you"
definitely no,giving that as a commom fact is also wrong??? when i want to have something i pray to god,do you mean that???
you do that i could assume...does it help you?? do you get the girl you want,do you beat some illness cause of your praying...
dont know but most people must agree that everything is hard work...you have to work or you wont earn money and you have to starve or whatever(without introducing now any political system:happy:)you have to do something for that what you want...i don`t think praying will help me...it just costs time and maybe false hope...also you just posted much words in a row to show me an example what life is...ehh iam in it so it`s okay i get the point:happy:
"a better way to make some1 believe is to make him afraid -->fear
or why is for example a "hell" in the Christianity ...to make the people fear to not follow the "orders" commandments ..."
you havent answered why this is a headstone of every religion..why does something needs to put pressure on the ones ,when something mighty like a god could easily explain us the "good way" so that every1 believes it...he should be able to do that or not??
is it not more like that "god " gave us human a free will...so we could do what we find right??
so why is it a sin to not believe in him or in religion..."All what you are feeling now is emptiness…A void, when I don't pray I feel a void and after I pray I get relaxed and the void gets filled.
If you skip prayers and disobey the commandments you go away from God, but when you follow them you get closer to him.
your words..
isn`t than a free will idiotic cause it will bring us emptiness
but god gave us a "free will"…how could he do such a mistake as an allmighty being????
incosistencies----and i should believe in something like that??? rly:sad:Unrevealed: Loki/Rocks/the man marked by flames/Im-san
Island: Elbaf/Raftel/GodValley
Unresolved: Weevil´s plan/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
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@Xai:
There are lots of things in your body that serve no purpose whatsoever.
Mention 1 please…
@Xai:
Is there any reason to believe it was created by someone or somethign else? Only beacuse one cannot figure out certain things yet, does not mean one has to credit that to some unknown factor. At one time we did not know what the sun was. Why did the sun move across the sky? Where did it go at night? People started worshipping the sun as a God. Apollo rode across the sky on a chariot. sun went to sleep under the ocean at night.
Lack of Science and lack of believe in God, made them do the wrong thing.
Religion can now keep up with science you know…@Xai:
Exactly. But never heard from God Himself. If I were to tell you that I had a vision by the Invisible Pink Unicorn who revealed to me that it is the true Creator of everything, why would you not believe me?
Give me a sign or evidence to believe you, like Bible, Quran, Torah…etc.
@Xai:
Yeah, so? How does that prove God's existence or non-existence. There are millions of people who do not know I exist.
That's what I exactly meant, If you existed or not does that make the world any different, the world can go on without you. So God can end you in like seconds, but he is so merciful that he gives you many signs and chances to believe in him.
@Xai:
No, seriously, the IPU visited its prophets.
Why do you believe in the IPU? It can't help you in any way possible.
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XMURADX,
If everyone (as in people in general) just calmed the fuck down and instead of spewing hate about religion and closing their eyes and minds to the good of it, then there could be a much more productive exchange of ideas without snide comments and arguments aimed at fueling hatred like those presented by the FSM argument and the like which more than anything, seem like vehicles for those who are anxious for revenge against religion or have a grudge against it for being dragged to church one too many times.
I wrote something about what i think religion is and why it can't be blamed etc on page 6 in this thread. It also explain why religions need their god/gods etc… But it seems to have been ignored. Maybe that the post wasn't clear enough but i didn't saw any reply to it:( It would have been interesting to know what you guys think about it.
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I like xmuradx's posts. despite people attacking him in this thread, he can have a calm rational conversation and give his thoughts. It's interesting, his concepts.
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Why do you believe in the IPU? It can't help you in any way possible.
Don't fall into FSM or IPU arguments. You cannot argue against them because they're absolutely in the right. If they want to believe in something they believe they created and that they believe can offer them salvation, they should by all means. There's nothing to argue. However, the method, motivation and their placement of faith in said being is ultimately for the purpose of deriding religion. And rather than criticize that, simply recognize said fact. Then you've in essence shown what goal their belief holds at its base. And who are we to say that's a bad thing, unless we're uncomfortable with our own faith.
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@Xai:
Nope ..you are imagining it to be. Your body was not made the way it is to perform the way it does - it performs that way becasue it is made that way. You do not have two legs so that you can walk upright; you can walk upright because you have two legs. There are lots of things in your body that serve no purpose whatsoever.
lol here you`re false..
structure is always cause it has to achieve a function
why do you believe there is something like evolution…cause a given structure always improves itself so that a function could be achieved more optimal... -
Mention 1 please…
The Appendix, the earlobes, hair on the head, the nasal cartilage to name a few.
Lack of Science and lack of believe in God, made them do the wrong thing.
Religion can now keep up with science you know…Lack of science lead to the belief in God. And, what do you mean "wrong" thing? They believed in God. Only a different God that you do, maybe.
Give me a sign or evidence to believe you, like Bible, Quran, Torah…etc.
So you'll believe any random person who comes to you with a two-dollar paperback preaching a new god?
That's what I exactly meant, If you existed or not does that make the world any different, the world can go on without you. So God can end you in like seconds, but he is so merciful that he gives you many signs and chances to believe in him.
Eh? No God gave me "signs" to believe in Him. All I see are dogmatic people using "God did it" as an excuse to explain the unexplained.
Why do you believe in the IPU? It can't help you in any way possible.
It is just as helpful as any God you would believe.
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I like xmuradx's posts. despite people attacking him in this thread, he can have a calm rational conversation and give his thoughts. It's interesting, his concepts.
I don't think we're attacking him… We have a discussion with him. We discuss his ideas bring arguments against it etc... That's not attacking a person!
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@Don:
lol here you`re false..
structure is always cause it has to achieve a function
why do you believe there is something like evolution…cause a given structure always improves itself so that a function could be achieved more optimal...Well, let me put it like this : the hen does not lay egg so that you can make an omellete, but you can make an omellete because the hen laid the egg.
If our body wasn't the way it is, then we would not be like what we are today. that is not to say that we would be any worse, or any better. We would simply be different. We are the way we are, simply because it happened that way. Nobody designed it. There is no higher purpose. We very well might not be the epitome of life on earth.
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@Xai:
Well, let me put it like this : the hen does not lay egg so that you can make an omellete, but you can make an omellete because the hen laid the egg.
If our body wasn't the way it is, then we would not be like what we are today. that is not to say that we would be any worse, or any better. We would simply be different. We are the way we are, simply because it happened that way. Nobody designed it. There is no higher purpose. We very well might not be the epitome of life on earth.
Well i don't see it like that. I mean evolution means that a race must adapt itself to the environment. And every living creature is a "product" of a long adaptation. The nature is hard. If you are not strong enough to defend yourself out there you will die and be eaten by other creatures who are seeking food etc… Now we as humans evolve and developp ourself so far that we can protect to a certain point people that are weak enough. But that are not the rules of the wildness out there. Well yes many animals still protect their young childs etc... But if they're too weak they are eliminated naturally.
Back on your idea i will say that every part of our body is the result of an adaptation to our environment. -
@Don:
hehe you take that fun-ride statement to literally
but that was just the thing i wanted to show you…
giving a example which is based on this world to explain something which has no explanations also leads you to arguing about every little detail and totally forgetting the main issue,you see
seeing live as something like a shipright is totally wrong you agree....so why you brought an argument(which you personally find as a good argument or else you wouldnt post it)about "why god exist" with the same example..."a ship"?! and thats why we see :"it must give a builder\captn??"....hope you see thats nonsense!
"you will definitely call God to help you"
definitely no,giving that as a commom fact is also wrong??? when i want to have something i pray to god,do you mean that???
you do that i could assume...does it help you?? do you get the girl you want,do you beat some illness cause of your praying...
dont know but most people must agree that everything is hard work...you have to work or you wont earn money and you have to starve or
whatever(without introducing now any political system:happy:)you have to do something for that what you want...i don`t think praying will help me...it just costs time and maybe false hope...If the ship have no captain to maintain it, then it will continue moving until it reaches a certain destination, but definitely not the right one.
In other words the world can keep going, but if there is no one who can maintain it's laws, will it survive by it's own? Where is the Justice?Do you actually believe the people who do the bad things killing, raping..etc, will run away with it.
e.g.) If I have been good all my life and a person have been bad all his life, do you believe we will be rewarded equally, If yes, then I don't think Good and Evil should exist.@Don:
also you just posted much words in a row to show me an example what life is…ehh iam in it so it`s okay i get the point:happy:
"a better way to make some1 believe is to make him afraid -->fear
or why is for example a "hell" in the Christianity ...to make the people fear to not follow the "orders" commandments ..."
you havent answered why this is a headstone of every religion..why does something needs to put pressure on the ones ,when something mighty like a god could easily explain us the "good way" so that every1 believes it...he should be able to do that or not??
is it not more like that "god " gave us human a free will...so we could do what we find right??
so why is it a sin to not believe in him or in religion...
your words..isn`t than a free will idiotic cause it will bring us emptiness
but god gave us a "free will"...how could he do such a mistake as an allmighty being????
incosistencies----and i should believe in something like that??? rly:sad:I don't think I can get the right girl, if I didn't have a God to maintain my healthy body.
I can't Hard Work if I don't have the body for it, which God is keeping for me.
Where do you get the power, will, Health, to do your job properly?
I mean if you have a diseases, Can you get what you want?God gave us free will, because it's your right to be Good or Evil…Believer or Non-Believer...But he also gave the message through his prophets with very clear signs. This Life is just a test for you...
When you do the exam, if you pass you move to next grade, if you fail you go down. That's what's life all about, and God is rewarding everyone equally.
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@Xai:
Well, let me put it like this : the hen does not lay egg so that you can make an omellete, but you can make an omellete because the hen laid the egg.
If our body wasn't the way it is, then we would not be like what we are today. that is not to say that we would be any worse, or any better. We would simply be different. We are the way we are, simply because it happened that way. Nobody designed it. There is no higher purpose. We very well might not be the epitome of life on earth.
mhh always these curios examples
before we called ourselves homo sapiens sapiens we were maybe apes,before fishes ,whatever, all live comes from the sea.
so why do you think suddenly a creature existed with two legs??cause evolution created a way to walk fast on land and also to be high enough to reach fruits on trees orso..so the structure was build so that it could achieve a function(move and also get something to eat)…
in your opinion a long time ago there were hundrets of differnet shapes made and only the 1 who could actually move cause of his shape survived...dont know maybe you dont believe in the evolution but when you do you should see your little mistake:ninja:
