Posts made by Kirk

@The:

Man that really sucks the big one, darth was always my favorite poster to read. Hope it's just a prank.

hey, you still have cyan d funk's marvellous one liner posts to read, how awesome is that?

@lokilasher:

I highly doubt he's banned, the timing with April 1st is just too coincidental.

heh, pretty sure he's banned, unfortunately. They just want people to believe that it's an april fool joke while it's not. Every year they plan something and it seems this year they ran out of ideas so they ended up banning him to have something "cool and exciting to discuss".

well I guess chapter threads will just be boring again. yawn

@King:

You didn't read Coruscation's post at all then. He pretty much tells the difference between arcs like PH and LG with arcs like W7 and ID.

Really, you're just blindly agreeing with arguments that you think are in your favor. That's stupid.

One could tell that Punk hazard is a setup arc for dressrosa. Law and Luffy being together, Vergo foreshadowing Law past, Doflamingo being introduced as the joker, and the whole point anyway, has always been to destroy Dofla business with the smiles. Story started at Punk hazard.

@King:

But in the end, Dressrosa still ends up being a shorterstory than Water 7/Enies Lobby anyway, regardless of whether you think they're the same arc or not.

story started at Punk hazard, so nope.

@Coruscation:

Water Seven had more or less as much of a resolution as Impel Down. It resolved internal plots but left the resolution of overarching ones for later. In both cases the main plot running through both is simply transferred to the next area. It's about saving Robin - it's about saving Ace. Impel Down's internal plot was simply to get through all its traps and obstacles to save Ace. Water 7's internal plot was to find out what Robin was up to and get her back. In both cases Luffy failed and had to move on to a new location with some new allies on his side. The only difference is that Impel Down had different people under the WG trying to stop Luffy. Otherwise the main character, his objective and (nearly) his allies all carried over and it's still the WG as the main villain. There was no "internal main plot", for the lack of a better term, of Impel Down such as the giants' fight in Little Garden, or Caesar's experiments on Punk Hazard. It was the same exact plot as Marineford - save Ace from WG - in a different location. The antagonist is the same entity, merely wearing a different face. So the only real difference between ID and W7 is that between ID and MF all the individuals among the antagonists were replaced by others (while still coming from the same overall entity) while from W7 to EL some new individuals among the antagonists were added (while still coming from the same overall entity). That can not possibly be the deciding factor as to whether one is a real arc and the other is somehow not. I understand the notion that Magellan was the antagonist and he was defeated in that he failed to stop the prison break, but he's merely one limb of the body of the main antagonist of the save Ace plot, the World Government.

And Water 7 did resolve its own internal plot points, much like ID. It resolved the friction between the Straw Hats, Iceberg/Galley-La and the whole city. Solved the attempted murder mystery. It answered what Robin was up to and got rid of the SHs' doubts. It set them free from the chains that had bound them so they could next move on and save their friend. These were all internal parts of W7 much like Mr. 2's resolve and actions and escaping Magellan were internal parts of Impel Down. But neither arc resolved any overarching plot points. They wouldn't, because they're both set-up arcs for the climax and post-fighting calm that will eventually resolve them.

It's helpful to look toward Amazon Lily to clarify the distinction. AL did have its own internal main plot, which was cleanly resolved and progressed us a step further in the saga's plot. Both arcs and sagas have main plots, but sometimes the main plot of the saga is put aside for an arc to have its own main plot. Little Garden is an example, Drum is another. So too with AL and PH but not with Impel Down, Water 7 and Whiskey Peak (last one being the most arguable). For me that makes the latter three set-up arcs. Their purpose is to set up the coming arc, but they are still arcs of their own. When you make the argument about vital plot points not being resolved, this is basically the core of that. An internal main plot will always be resolved. That in a sense is what a story arc is. But some "arcs" don't have internal main plots; the main plot of the overarching saga is inserted as their main plot directly. ID and W7 are both such arcs. The same exact plot ran through them, merely changing locations because Luffy failed to get the job done in the first location. Either that should mean that neither is an arc of their own, or both ought to be considered set-up arcs.

Great post. Now we can all agree that Water Seven and Enies lobby are different arcs.

@Darth:

Ironicaly, Maynard has the best track record of VAs that are not up there with Admirals.

And Onigumo probably has the best track record at killing marines. Or was it Dobberman? I think it was both anyway, not sure.

@Darth:

Hey, let's be honest here, as far a choreography and art are concerned, Enies Lobby was pretty awesome. It dragged a bit, but it was well made.

And the stakes were high andpersonal, something a lot of people related to.

It is by no means perfect arc (none of them are), but it enjoyable. And different, something many people crave when it comes to One Piece.

It also had incompetent vice admirals :ninja:

@Jazo:

I too can make up criteria for the definition of arcs.

Heh, don't worry, Robby isn't the "voice of truth" (even if he acts like it), not so long ago he said that Oda wasn't going to draw a tournament because "One Piece in itself is a tournament". Then we got the Colosseum tournament.

@Monquito:

Yeah, Long ring long land is that boring, sales dropped((introduces admiral to save the series)) sales rising again, then pure epicness with Water7/Ennies Lobby.

Long ring long land was pretty cool. It's a fun arc and short.

@RobZilla:

Kirk, please stop antagonizing other posters quite so blatantly.

his post about Skypiea was bad tho.

@Galaxy:

So the sudden arrival of Marines on the Sabaody Archipelago makes it a new arc? Got it.

Goddamn, what are you talking about now? Kizaru and the marines are part of Shabondy arc, let's say "rising action" since we need to use proper words now.

The hundred of marines at Enies lobby and the giants, it was their turf, it was the settings of the arc.

@Galaxy:

No it didn't. The exact same antagonists carried over and were just expanded.

While Magellan, Hannyabal, and the Impel Down staff didn't carry over and were exclusive to Impel Down.

new CP9 members + Spandam officially introduced + giants + random marines + vice admirals at the Buster call. It was EXCLUSIVE to Enies lobby.

"b-but Impel down had different antagonists…"

yes, and Enies lobby had new antagonists as well, new place, and new settings. Everything new!

@King:

Water 7 didn't have a resolution. That's why it's not an arc of its own.

The point of Water 7 was definitely not only that. The Straw Hats spent of the water 7 trying to get Robin back, which they only managed to do at Enies Lobby.

annnnnd Luffy spent all of Impel down trying to get Ace back, which he only managed to do at Marineford. you haven't read anything of the last pages did you?

@RamistaR:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/787531018.png

if you want to be dumb and consider the colosseum as one arc, so be it, I don't stop you.

@Galaxy:

Not a single one of the goals you listed were resolved by the end of Water 7.

The strawhats were seen as bad pirates trying to kill Iceburg. That was resolved. The whole point of Water seven was to find out who shot Iceburg and why Robin was involved. That was resolved as well.

@The:

I think it's because Water 7 is included when they say Enies Lobby. Then again, it is the One Piece subreddit.

nope it isn't:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/2ok02z/one_piece_arc_poll_results/

w](http://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/2ok02z/one_piece_arc_poll_results/)arning: this poll can hurt your eyes.

@RamistaR:

Or maybe he doesn't.
If I remember correctly one of the chapter of the SOP strategy had a message on the first page along those lines "after the SOP thing the story moves on to a new arc"

those are plotlines, now let's stop being dumb please.

@asm00200:

So, why not cut Dressrosa into at least two different arcs, then? Inside the Colosseum is the first arc and outside the Colosseum the second arc. And don't tell there was no climax in the tournament.

I hope you aren't serious, otherwise you have some issues.

@TLC:

When you have two portions of a story that are so interconnected with each other, where one portion depends so heavily on the the story elements that were carried over from the preceding portion be it antagonists, stakes, character motivations, themes, the GOAL, where one portion IMMEDIATELY leads to the other, no transition, just straight move on to the next location, that's an arc, one arc.

No, this is YOUR definition.
As posted above, this is how it really works:

And here you are implying that Water Seven doesn't have any rising action/climax/falling action/resolution.

When we see Lucci and co drop their mask, it is the climax of Water Seven.
Buster call is the climax of Enies lobby.

@TLC:

I would argue that Amazon Lilly, Impel Down and Marineford are one arc that all delve into saving Ace.

Well then I guess you are confusing cycles and arcs.

@Jazo:

Taken from here: http://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/2ztlzg/i_still_think_water_7enies_lobby_is_one_arc_not/

"http://i.imgur.com/LopXE9u.jpg
Water Seven

• Exposition: carpenters, Franky Family, Iceburg, city
• Rising action: Usopp vs Franky, Straw hats goes on rampage, Luffy vs Usopp, Robin whereabouts, Iceburg gets shot
• Climax: CP9 drop the masks, find Pluton plan, straw hats break into the house, CP9 vs Straw hats
• Falling action: Iceburg meet up with Nami, explanations, CP9 and Robin leave
• Resolution: Alliance between Luffy and carpenters, decide to go to Enies lobby

Enies lobby

• Exposition: introduction of Spandman and CP9, island of justice and various characters.
• Rising action: Luffy and the crew break into the island, stand infront of Robin
• Climax: final fights, Buster Call, Luffy vs Lucci
• Falling action: crew leave enies lobby, merry funerals
• Resolution: crew return to Water seven

Two arcs."

This. Water Seven and Enies lobby are completely different, I don't get the people who consider them as one arc.

@Galaxy:

So the Flying Fish Rider hideout is its own arc?

Yes, it was a fun arc introducing Duval.

@TLC:

Punk Hazard had its own arc villain and themes and mission goals. Dressrosa didn't carry on immediately after, the arc was clearly its own close-ended thing where the characters had a period of rest and recuperation and planning and PARTYING. The characters immediately went to Enies Lobby from Dressrosa to accomplish the exact same mission which hadn't been accomplished in Water 7.

Impel Down had no party as well, and Luffy immediately went to Marineford from Impel down to accomplish the exact same mission which hadn't been accomplished in Impel down.

@TLC:

They're a train ride away from each other. There's absolutely no reason to separate them into two arcs. Same stakes, same villains, same themes, same everything except location, You might as well treat the Sea Train and the post Enies Lobby stuff as their own arc then.

different location, which mean different settings, different characters (Spandman, CP9 as a whole, giants, marines, buster call), different events and so on. Enies lobby and Water seven are completly different really.

@Galaxy:

! http://read.powermanga.org/content/comics/one_piece_5251c1a821656/734_0_the_kamaitachi_of_rommel_52d6c24321317/04.png

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

They have the exact same antagonists and the exact same "end goal".

They're a different arc by location only.

they are differents arcs, period. Let's not confuse saga or cycles with arcs.

@Rotten:

There's a reason for that I believe

yes, he got too many ideas crammed into one arc and got lost with it. Can't his editor or someone tell him to get to the point instead of milking his arc like that?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@TLC:

Nope, Water 7 is still longer.

Water 7 and Enies lobby are different arcs.

Am I understanding right?

People were also complaining years ago, just like today. But since Skypiea/Water Seven are considered as masterpiece, all the complains from before were baseless. Which mean, the same will happen with Dressrosa. Is that the logic behind it?

@Doffy.:

He should know better . After all you do a pretty great job at making yourself look like a fool .

Oh look, a keyboard warrior. If you aren't trying to discuss, what's the point of posting anyway?

@maxterdexter:

Oh, let me search for a thread when the forum didn't exist then.

Which is why your post didn't make any sense.

@maxterdexter:

And all of those observations of people complaining about people who complained just like you, from 8 years ago, it's just the wind right?

I see, so you are just another one of those people who complain about people complaining. And (again) seems like no one was complaining about the focus switching everytime, maybe because…that wasn't the case back then.

@Razh:

Geez, Kirk, grammar nazi much?

No? He quotes me telling me to go back checking for threads that was made during Skypiea times and then he tries to make a fool of me by showing me a thread that was made during Enies lobby? On top of that this thread has nothing to do with my quote. He just went full retard.

@maxterdexter:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Skypea+arc+reactions

thread was made in 2006
@maxterdexter:

You should try to go read the threads during Skypea. This could be a quote from these times.

"during Skypea" which is spelled Skypiea btw.
That arc was made in 2003-2004.

So next time, stop being an idiot, or be more precise such as "read a thread about Skypiea".

And this thread doesn't show any evidence of people complaining about what I was referring. If anything, Skypiea is praised in this thread, I fail to see your point.

@maxterdexter:

You should try to go read the threads during Skypea. This could be a quote from these times.

yay sure, show me those non-existent threads to back up your words.

@TLC:

Those fights were back burnered

Of course, this arc had no focus at all. Always switching around because of the gazillion of (unecessary) plotlines, which is painful and annoying to read. That's one of the main flaw of Dressrosa and Oda's new storytelling.

Not to mention that Skypiea had a break and the crew partying during the night, that was pretty cool. All of the arcs now are just a race, running, more running, and the action can't take a break, story can't take a breath.

@TLC:

Satori was five chapters, way more than his character deserved. Yama's introduction and defeat took like three chapters.

And Zoro vs Pica was 40 chapters.
Franky vs Senor Pink 43 chapters.
LOL! sorry, I find this hilarious.

^ hall of shame please.

@TLC:

It's easy to tear apart an arc when you're getting it in weekly bits, easier to focus on the flaws.

And reading it in one go won't make the flaws disappear.

@TLC:

I'm very confident this arc will be treated and remembered far more fondly once we get the whole picture and can read it in one sit through.

I recall people saying the same thing for Fishman Island and Punk hazard.

@TLC:

A lot of the complaints I've been reading have mostly been on the arc's length and peoples' impatience to just get on with the final epic battle. It's happened before, remember Skypiea which intrduced a volume long flashback just before the final clash? One can only wonder how most people on this froum might have reacted to that.

Dressrosa's length and pacing are on a whole new level. And Skypiea was good.

You know, Dressrosa would be a great arc if it was 30 chapters shorter. Just leave all the boring and unecessary stuff such as Rebecca/Kyros/Riku, the dwarves, the endless running chapters, most of the collosseum tournament and all the endless panels showing the civilians running around or crying/screaming as well as Violet recaps moments. Just focus on the main meat and you get a great arc.

about that stuff…I didn't like how the idea of using Pluton came from Spandam.
It was like:
Spandam: "hey, why don't we use the plans of Pluton instead of destroying it? Then we can crush all the pirates!"
Gorosei: "hey, that's actually not a bad idea, let's do this".

Seeing this idiot persuading the Gorosei was weird.

@Sephi:

Ididn't like Sky island. Was dragged out and long…much like Dressrosa actually)

hey, if Skypiea was dragged out you gotta create a whole new word for Dressrosa. And the way you keep using "Sky island" instead of "Skypiea" make me think that you've never read it, like many of its detractors, sadly.

@Darth:

Heh, I will shove whatever I want down everybody's throats. If there is even one person I've convince to think more criticaly, or indeed, think about the motives in the series at all, it's my win.

Honestly, if it wasn't for your posts, the chapter threads would be quite boring. And who the hell want to read people talking about how awesome the chapter was? If all you want is reading positive posts, make your own circle jerk thread.

@Sick_Fool:

Alright, I betrayed the promise I made to myself, went to see this week's dose of negativity brought to us by the same people, then I read this:

LOL. Desperate, aren't we? I wouldn't even do this, no matter how much I disliked you and your brigade shoving negativity down our throats every week. This is just hilarious and sad at the same time.

I barely post on this forum, I don't know what you are talking about. And it's not a big deal if there is some negativity around, is it? So please, get off your high horse.

as for Cyan's post, he acted like a prick as usual and forgot some of his older posts.

@Doffy.:

Sadly people like you still need to be reminded of this obvious fact on a weekly basis .

except that I've never stated Law being dead but nice try on trying to help your bud.

@kouch_lee:

I think Cyan was calling morons those that thought Law would indeed die. There are some of those. No disrespect to them, but I don't think he was directing his comment towards Kirk and Darth, even though you guys took it to your heart.

And seriously, I have no power here at all, but try and keep things civil, no personal grudges, insults or digging 5 yo threads to prove someone wrong.

And that goes for everyone, of course.

Anyway, I found at the first page of this old thread a proper translation from Stephen on Doflamingo's New Era stuff:

Doflamingo: HAH HAH HAH!! IT'S COMING!!
HURRY!! MAKE YOUR PREPARATIONS!!!
GET READY FOR A WORLD IN WHICH ONLY THE REAL PIRATES WILL SURVIVE!!!
WEAK AND HELPLESS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
THE UNCONTROLLABLE WAVES WILL BRING
A "NEW ERA" OF GREAT MEN AND HEROES!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh look, Cyan D funk, believing into Moria's death like a moron http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28548&page=62&p=1749833&viewfull=1#post1749833
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28548&page=63&p=1750227&viewfull=1#post1750227
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28548&page=64&p=1752243&viewfull=1#post1752243

and here we have a sarcastic comment about Bellamy being alive, wonderfull:
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28548&page=65&p=1753000&viewfull=1#post1753000

reading this thread is really refreshing. You get all the same "elitist" people arguing that Moria is dead because they know everything about Oda's writing and so on.

@Cyan:

Law is not going to die because that is not how Oda works you morons.

No one is going to actually die until Shanks and his crew, and it's likely no one's going to die after that.

Oda does not like killing characters. Never has. Never will. Ace and Whitebeard are incredible exceptions to the rule because the plot really, really could not advance with them alive.

You are just stating what everyone already know, good job Sherlock.

@Darth:

So I would guess that, in your mind, killing off Ace was "Bad" storytelling, then?

ha, don't worry that the same people preaching that "non death rule= good writing" would be the first to applaud Law's death and tell how awesome Oda is to have made this choice. Currently Law is alive, so it's good writing.

@King:

They were all gone during Impel Down + Marineford. Many people didn't mind.

mainly because the story surrounding Luffy was highly interesting, but also because they were getting actively stronger while being offscreen. Here, the amount of chapters they disappeared is almost the same, and they will come back as if nothing happened (and in story-time it will only be a few hours).

But honestly to me, I only miss Sanji. Both Nami, Chopper and Brook have been uninteresting and bland for a while.

@Darth:

Isn't it absolutly dreadful? They are going to be forced to, gasp, slowly walking towards the center of the island while Luffy kicks Doffy's ass.

It's almost as if Oda wants everyone to witness Luffy landing the final punch on Doflamingo!!!