Oda's INSPIRATION for One Piece
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Nope.
Ramistar is right.
Wa no kuni can be translated as "Country of Wa" or "Land of Wa". Translating it as "Wano country" is simply wrong.
The "no" in Wa no Kuni is just the possessive "no". There is no real difference in the usage of the katakana or the hiragana "no". The only difference is that the katakana "no" has a more ancient/historical vibe to it than the hiragana "no". This because katakana until WWII (if i remember correctly) was used instead of hiragana.
It is just normal to see a lot of "japanese-like" word using katakana even today. It is actually used in many japanese name like this, in which it is mixed with kanji. Katakana for loan words has been being used only since the end of WWII.Therefore, Wanokuni should be correctly translated as "land of wa". Wa, if i remember correctly, is also written in kanji a few time during the manga.
But technically correct as you might be I think you're missing the possible intention on Oda's part?
Yes we see the Kanji Wa in that one panel….sure...and yet why would Oda choose to write it in phonetic form whenever the actual name is used in dialogue?Kanokuni is a pun mixing flower with the "n" in no to get "Kan", an old name for China (from "Han" Dynasty I think).
Which makes me really really suspicious that his odd choice of phonetic Wa can't just be a straight down the line usage of the historical name.
I'd think he did it because the Wa Kanji was obscure Kanji kids might not know....except from what I've seen that isn't an obscure Kanji. -
@Monkey:
But technically correct as you might be I think you're missing the possible intention on Oda's part?
Yes we see the Kanji Wa in that one panel….sure...and yet why would Oda choose to write it in phonetic form whenever the actual name is used in dialogue?Kanokuni is a pun mixing flower with the "n" in no to get "Kan", an old name for China (from "Han" Dynasty I think).
Which makes me really really suspicious that his odd choice of phonetic Wa can't just be a straight down the line usage of the historical name.
I'd think he did it because the Wa Kanji was obscure Kanji kids might not know....except from what I've seen that isn't an obscure Kanji.About Wa… The kanji wa 和 is really a basic kanji which children learn in elementary school. I think that Oda decided to write it as ワノ国 and not 和ノ国 because it is Japan, but not the same Japan of the real world. Something like this. Just because it is written in kana and not in kanji, the translation is "country of Wa".
About Kanokuni, if I remember correctly it is written 華 ノ国 that means, as you said, "land of the flower". As far as I can tell, there are hardly any references to China in the name itself, even though they can be found in many other things. That is because, japanese language doesn't permit to split syllables as you suggest (ka + n of no) and japanese people tend not to think in single letters but in kana. It would be quite an unnatural mental process to do ka + n = han dinasty = china reference.
Even though, there could be another hidden reference to China that I couldn't grasp. I'm not a japanese mothertongue. -
About Wa… The kanji wa 和 is really a basic kanji which children learn in elementary school. I think that Oda decided to write it as ワノ国 and not 和ノ国 because it is Japan, but not the same Japan of the real world. Something like this. Just because it is written in kana and not in kanji, the translation is "country of Wa".
That somehow doesn't seem clever enough to be it.
About Kanokuni, if I remember correctly it is written 華 ノ国 that means, as you said, "land of the flower". As far as I can tell, there are hardly any references to China in the name itself, even though they can be found in many other things.
The "Kan" is the reference. If you're struggling to think of an example of Japan referring to Chinese things with Kan….then uh...remember Kanji?
That is because, japanese language doesn't permit to split syllables as you suggest (ka + n of no) and japanese people tend not to think in single letters but in kana. It would be quite an unnatural mental process to do ka + n = han dinasty = china reference.
Only if you are under the impression that the Han dynasty and word "Han" are just sort of a random Chinese dynasty and name that aren't huge deals. Which is not the case whatsoever.
The Han are considered the most important Chinese dynasty of all, they weren't the first to unite China (they're second), but they were the first to make it count and actually make China a viable united state for the first time after the Stalinist nutters who ran the three-man first dynasty.
If people think of "important old China period where they were strong and doing cool shit", they're probably going to be thinking of Han before any other.
Its such a big deal that the actual name Chinese people call themselves is literally "Han". Even the basic reason Kanji is called that is from the "Hanzi" name for the same characters in China whence they came from. And of course both Kanji and Hanzi mean "Han Characters".
If Wa and Yamato are fancy terms the Japanese use to stir up thoughts of an important and formative time in their history? Han is the equivalent for China. And I shouldn't have to explain how China is basically the end all be all for the whole East Asia region in terms of so much of their shared culture.
I can keep going too. It was during the Han that we have the earliest known diplomatic contacts between Japan and China (or what was to become Japan anyway), and the Han dynasty was the China that gave Japan the name "Wa" in the first place!And while we're talking what would be natural or unnatural for a Japanese person to think, this should not be obscure in Japan. The Han for all intents and purpose were East Asian Rome. I trust you (well shit ESPECIALLY you, lol @ location) should understand how a reference to such an entity is a really big cultural deal.
And even then that's not quite my point anyway, as it appears that "Kan" is an old fashioned name for China, and the 漢 na kanji designates various things as Chinese. Especially it would appear older more classic Chinese things.
So I take it you can read the following, 漢方薬, 漢文,漢詩? Then you can see the point.
But I think I've saved the best for last. I think. Obviously I don't actually read, write or know Japanese. But roving through Japanese wikipedia for various names of China (using yes crappy translator tools) I found a sentence that I couldn't quite figure due to the garbage grammar of the translator service. But if it says what I think it says? Then my point is proven entirely.
So what is this saying?また、日本では「から」の音を「漢」の字にあてる例もある。
Because if its saying what I think its saying, that just about establishes "Han/Kan/漢" as being a term that really carries a lot of weight in terms of old fancy cultural grandpappy China to Japan.
If its seeming strange to you that one country could simultaneously have various names for the Japanese to use to reference it (aside from their own of course), well I dunno. Its common. Especially for really old areas. Like Iran/Persia.
Knowing nothing more linguistically, but feeling very confident culturally I will hazard that the more common modern name for China (中国) will make a Japanese person roll their eyes or shrug uncomfortably as their head fills with images of island disputes, riots, WW2 scars and CCP politicians glaring. But if you mention 漢 (and probably some of the other old fancy China names I noticed while researching) their mind might fill up with images of great palaces, powerful emperors, dragons, ancient philosophy, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and Journey to the West.POINT IS
All that taken into account you just can't really tell me that completely by coincidence Oda has chosen to name One Piece China Kanokuni without it being a punny reference of some sort. Especially not with the old name for Japan from the EXACT same period given by the EXACT same Chinese dynasty being the reference name for Wanokuni. -
@Monkey:
That somehow doesn't seem clever enough to be it.
The "Kan" is the reference. If you're struggling to think of an example of Japan referring to Chinese things with Kan….then uh...remember Kanji?
Only if you are under the impression that the Han dynasty and word "Han" are just sort of a random Chinese dynasty and name that aren't huge deals. Which is not the case whatsoever.
The Han are considered the most important Chinese dynasty of all, they weren't the first to unite China (they're second), but they were the first to make it count and actually make China a viable united state for the first time after the Stalinist nutters who ran the three-man first dynasty.
If people think of "important old China period where they were strong and doing cool shit", they're probably going to be thinking of Han before any other.
Its such a big deal that the actual name Chinese people call themselves is literally "Han". Even the basic reason Kanji is called that is from the "Hanzi" name for the same characters in China whence they came from. And of course both Kanji and Hanzi mean "Han Characters".
If Wa and Yamato are fancy terms the Japanese use to stir up thoughts of an important and formative time in their history? Han is the equivalent for China. And I shouldn't have to explain how China is basically the end all be all for the whole East Asia region in terms of so much of their shared culture.
I can keep going too. It was during the Han that we have the earliest known diplomatic contacts between Japan and China (or what was to become Japan anyway), and the Han dynasty was the China that gave Japan the name "Wa" in the first place!And while we're talking what would be natural or unnatural for a Japanese person to think, this should not be obscure in Japan. The Han for all intents and purpose were East Asian Rome. I trust you (well shit ESPECIALLY you, lol @ location) should understand how a reference to such an entity is a really big cultural deal.
And even then that's not quite my point anyway, as it appears that "Kan" is an old fashioned name for China, and the 漢 na kanji designates various things as Chinese. Especially it would appear older more classic Chinese things.
So I take it you can read the following, 漢方薬, 漢文,漢詩? Then you can see the point.
But I think I've saved the best for last. I think. Obviously I don't actually read, write or know Japanese. But roving through Japanese wikipedia for various names of China (using yes crappy translator tools) I found a sentence that I couldn't quite figure due to the garbage grammar of the translator service. But if it says what I think it says? Then my point is proven entirely.
So what is this saying?Because if its saying what I think its saying, that just about establishes "Han/Kan/漢" as being a term that really carries a lot of weight in terms of old fancy cultural grandpappy China to Japan.
If its seeming strange to you that one country could simultaneously have various names for the Japanese to use to reference it (aside from their own of course), well I dunno. Its common. Especially for really old areas. Like Iran/Persia.
Knowing nothing more linguistically, but feeling very confident culturally I will hazard that the more common modern name for China (中国) will make a Japanese person roll their eyes or shrug uncomfortably as their head fills with images of island disputes, riots, WW2 scars and CCP politicians glaring. But if you mention 漢 (and probably some of the other old fancy China names I noticed while researching) their mind might fill up with images of great palaces, powerful emperors, dragons, ancient philosophy, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and Journey to the West.POINT IS
All that taken into account you just can't really tell me that completely by coincidence Oda has chosen to name One Piece China Kanokuni without it being a punny reference of some sort. Especially not with the old name for Japan from the EXACT same period given by the EXACT same Chinese dynasty being the reference name for Wanokuni.Obviously, Han dinasty is well known in Japan as well. But I was talking only about a linguistic issue, not historical one.
The point is…the "kan" 漢 you are talking about is different from the "ka" 花 in kanokuni. And for a japanese, as I wrote before, it would be an unnatural to mentally split every single letter of kanokuni and to grasp the "kan" part. Japanese people see it as KA-NO-KU-NI. That's all. Not KAN-O-KU-NI. It is not written nor pronounced in the way you suggest it. Japanese doesn't simply work that way.The wiki part you quoted says: "there are also various examples in which, in Japan, the reading "kara" is given to the character 漢". Just to say, I have never found such a reading of that character, and even my dictionary doesn't report that reading. It must be an historical reading, not used anymore.
Anyway, as I have written before, there could be another reference to the China in the name, but not the one you are thinking about. There could possibly be other kanjis read as "ka" that refer to China. I am not excluding that possibility at all, just I can't see where the pun could come from.
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@Monkey:
That somehow doesn't seem clever enough to be it.
The "Kan" is the reference. If you're struggling to think of an example of Japan referring to Chinese things with Kan….then uh...remember Kanji?
Only if you are under the impression that the Han dynasty and word "Han" are just sort of a random Chinese dynasty and name that aren't huge deals. Which is not the case whatsoever.
The Han are considered the most important Chinese dynasty of all, they weren't the first to unite China (they're second), but they were the first to make it count and actually make China a viable united state for the first time after the Stalinist nutters who ran the three-man first dynasty.
If people think of "important old China period where they were strong and doing cool shit", they're probably going to be thinking of Han before any other.
Its such a big deal that the actual name Chinese people call themselves is literally "Han". Even the basic reason Kanji is called that is from the "Hanzi" name for the same characters in China whence they came from. And of course both Kanji and Hanzi mean "Han Characters".
If Wa and Yamato are fancy terms the Japanese use to stir up thoughts of an important and formative time in their history? Han is the equivalent for China. And I shouldn't have to explain how China is basically the end all be all for the whole East Asia region in terms of so much of their shared culture.
I can keep going too. It was during the Han that we have the earliest known diplomatic contacts between Japan and China (or what was to become Japan anyway), and the Han dynasty was the China that gave Japan the name "Wa" in the first place!And while we're talking what would be natural or unnatural for a Japanese person to think, this should not be obscure in Japan. The Han for all intents and purpose were East Asian Rome. I trust you (well shit ESPECIALLY you, lol @ location) should understand how a reference to such an entity is a really big cultural deal.
And even then that's not quite my point anyway, as it appears that "Kan" is an old fashioned name for China, and the 漢 na kanji designates various things as Chinese. Especially it would appear older more classic Chinese things.
So I take it you can read the following, 漢方薬, 漢文,漢詩? Then you can see the point.
But I think I've saved the best for last. I think. Obviously I don't actually read, write or know Japanese. But roving through Japanese wikipedia for various names of China (using yes crappy translator tools) I found a sentence that I couldn't quite figure due to the garbage grammar of the translator service. But if it says what I think it says? Then my point is proven entirely.
So what is this saying?Because if its saying what I think its saying, that just about establishes "Han/Kan/漢" as being a term that really carries a lot of weight in terms of old fancy cultural grandpappy China to Japan.
If its seeming strange to you that one country could simultaneously have various names for the Japanese to use to reference it (aside from their own of course), well I dunno. Its common. Especially for really old areas. Like Iran/Persia.
Knowing nothing more linguistically, but feeling very confident culturally I will hazard that the more common modern name for China (中国) will make a Japanese person roll their eyes or shrug uncomfortably as their head fills with images of island disputes, riots, WW2 scars and CCP politicians glaring. But if you mention 漢 (and probably some of the other old fancy China names I noticed while researching) their mind might fill up with images of great palaces, powerful emperors, dragons, ancient philosophy, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and Journey to the West.POINT IS
All that taken into account you just can't really tell me that completely by coincidence Oda has chosen to name One Piece China Kanokuni without it being a punny reference of some sort. Especially not with the old name for Japan from the EXACT same period given by the EXACT same Chinese dynasty being the reference name for Wanokuni.Sorry Monkey King but I think Moiapon is right about this.
In Japanese, "no" and the individual "n" are two distinct syllables. "N" is not part of "no" like it would be if it were English. They are distinct and separate letters of the Japanese alphabet.
Hence why it'd be a stretch to say the pun of Kanokuni is in the "Kan" portion.
You are right in that the "Kan" in kanji is the same as the "Han"that the Chinese call themselves, but I think the pun is something else.
The "ka" used in Kanokuni means "flower", but it is also phonetically similar (in Chinese and Japanese) to the "ka" that means Chinese (華 or 华 for simplified).
I've seen instances where the Chinese refer to themselves as flowers because of this phonetic similarity. The pun is probably as simple as that.FC(3DS) - 2724-4238-5489 (LZTan)
FC(Switch) - SW-3434-4042-7728 (Jin)
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Could the Kaaba be the inspiration for poneglyps or am I missing something? Probably has been discussed 20 years ago but well… https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Kaaba_2.JPG/1024px-Kaaba_2.JPG
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So going off the ol' "North Blue is One Piece Europe" theme, the flag of the Germa Kingdom seen in this chapter is clearly based off the Nordic cross flags of the Nordic countries.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg/2000px-Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg.png. Turn it into a pennant shape and throw on a 66 and it's definitely the inspiration.http://readms.com/r/one_piece/832/3534/17
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@Monkey:
So going off the ol' "North Blue is One Piece Europe" theme, the flag of the Germa Kingdom seen in this chapter is clearly based off the Nordic cross flags of the Nordic countries.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg/2000px-Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg.png. Turn it into a pennant shape and throw on a 66 and it's definitely the inspiration.http://readms.com/r/one_piece/832/3534/17
Oh yeah, hadn't noticed that detail. Quite close to the Norwegian flag, depending on the particular colours. But I'm guessing they'll choose some random colours and not go for the actual real life flag.
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@Monkey:
So going off the ol' "North Blue is One Piece Europe" theme, the flag of the Germa Kingdom seen in this chapter is clearly based off the Nordic cross flags of the Nordic countries.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg/2000px-Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg.png. Turn it into a pennant shape and throw on a 66 and it's definitely the inspiration.http://readms.com/r/one_piece/832/3534/17
I had noticed the flag but I am unaware of the broader context. What in the manga thus far has linked North Blue with Europe?
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That somehow doesn't seem clever enough to be it.
That's exactly what it is. Is this not common knowledge?
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I had noticed the flag but I am unaware of the broader context. What in the manga thus far has linked North Blue with Europe?
The Blues tend to have a general theme that somewhat mimics the real world.
East Blue: Rural Asia (grassy, agricultural fields)
West Blue: Wild West America (Cowboy fashion)
North Blue: Scandinavia with a bit of Eastern Europe (cold climates)
South Blue: A mix of South America and Africa (hot, tropical climates)There are some outliers here and there like Kano Kuni (China) being in the west, but most islands somewhat follow a cultural pattern.
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I had noticed the flag but I am unaware of the broader context. What in the manga thus far has linked North Blue with Europe?
Every single time we've seen North Blue its looked like some sort of European setting. The other blues have some vague patterns suggesting Oda has a general weak idea of what world regions he's going off, but North Blue has been super consistent on this to the point of it being nearly inarguable.
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The Blues tend to have a general theme that somewhat mimics the real world. East Blue: Rural Asia (grassy, agricultural fields) West Blue: Wild West America (Cowboy fashion) North Blue: Scandinavia with a bit of Eastern Europe (cold climates) South Blue: A mix of South America and Africa (hot, tropical climates) There are some outliers here and there like Kano Kuni (China) being in the west, but most islands somewhat follow a cultural pattern.
That looks similar to the old four continents people used to divide the world into. Especially the cardinal directions part.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_continents
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That looks similar to the old four continents people used to divide the world into. Especially the cardinal directions part.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_continents
The issue is that the other three Blues are loosely at best themed on anything. There's been more Americas looking stuff from West Blue yeah, and more tropical looking stuff from South Blue yeah. But we've also had plenty of stuff going against that. And East Blue really isn't "Asia" outside of Zoro's island.The fact that Oda put Kano in West Blue for instance screws with the possible themes of both West and East Blues at once.North Blue alone is really heavily given this sort of theme.
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@Monkey:
So going off the ol' "North Blue is One Piece Europe" theme, the flag of the Germa Kingdom seen in this chapter is clearly based off the Nordic cross flags of the Nordic countries.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg/2000px-Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg.png. Turn it into a pennant shape and throw on a 66 and it's definitely the inspiration.http://readms.com/r/one_piece/832/3534/17
Hey this is great! Thanks for sharing. The evidence just keeps building. I want to believe.
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@Monkey:
The issue is that the other three Blues are loosely at best themed on anything. There's been more Americas looking stuff from West Blue yeah, and more tropical looking stuff from South Blue yeah. But we've also had plenty of stuff going against that. And East Blue really isn't "Asia" outside of Zoro's island.The fact that Oda put Kano in West Blue for instance screws with the possible themes of both West and East Blues at once.North Blue alone is really heavily given this sort of theme.
Well yeah, stuff like Kano does mess up things up with regards to the East and West Blues. To be honest, I suspect that with regards to the North and South Blue, Oda's thought process doesn't go much beyond "north is cold, south is warm", hence why the North Blue is mostly snowy islands and the South Blue is tropical ones. If that's the case, the whole Europe connection to the North Blue is coincidental because there aren't a lot of real places he can copy from that his audience would instantly associate with the cold outside of Europe. I guess if he could draw an island with an Inuit theme if he hasn't already.
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Well yeah, stuff like Kano does mess up things up with regards to the East and West Blues. To be honest, I suspect that with regards to the North and South Blue, Oda's thought process doesn't go much beyond "north is cold, south is warm", hence why the North Blue is mostly snowy islands and the South Blue is tropical ones. If that's the case, the whole Europe connection to the North Blue is coincidental because there aren't a lot of real places he can copy from that his audience would instantly associate with the cold outside of Europe. I guess if he could draw an island with an Inuit theme if he hasn't already.
It hasn't been like he's just depicted cold up there. Lyneel wasn't covered in snow, but it was clearly Europe based. And the preponderance of blonde characters from there following that old Japanese "white people = blonde" type of thing.
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It's necessary to point out the similarities between One Piece and Breath of Fire. There's a lot of them. The characters and places for example. Guess who is who? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Breath_of_Fire_characters.jpg
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It's necessary to point out the similarities between One Piece and Breath of Fire. There's a lot of them. The characters and places for example. Guess who is who? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Breath_of_Fire_characters.jpg
Do we win something when we get to the 100th inspiration post about how incredibly common archetypes that are in some cases centuries old, are traced to one random bit of media, that Oda got all his ideas from?
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@Monkey:
Do we win something when we get to the 100th inspiration post about how incredibly common archetypes that are in some cases centuries old, are traced to one random bit of media, that Oda got all his ideas from?
Legends say, Oda's spirit will appear in your dreams and in the next morning you'll find an autograph beneath your pillow. Just pray you don't crush it with your head during your sleep.
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Oda might be making a few Star Wars references in this arc. The most prominent being with clone soldiers and the name Germa 66 (similar to Order 66). There are more tenuous parallels you could draw but this seems reasonably straightforward for now.
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
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Oda might be making a few Star Wars references in this arc. The most prominent being with clone soldiers and the name Germa 66 (similar to Order 66). There are more tenuous parallels you could draw but this seems reasonably straightforward for now.
It's kind of ironic since the Empire takes plenty of inspiration from the Third Reich. So Germa 66 could be inspired by both of those sources.
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@Monkey:
So going off the ol' "North Blue is One Piece Europe" theme, the flag of the Germa Kingdom seen in this chapter is clearly based off the Nordic cross flags of the Nordic countries.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg/2000px-Nordic_cross_flags_of_Northern_Europe.svg.png. Turn it into a pennant shape and throw on a 66 and it's definitely the inspiration.http://readms.com/r/one_piece/832/3534/17
I thought it was obvious.
Also, here's the SS Totenkopf logo. It matches with the skull here http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/839/4
Even though it has only one lightning and a cartoon-like skull, the correlation with nazi fucking germany in undeniable.
And of course, the 66 logo is identical to the shitty swatiska flag. -
Immune to burning, treated harshly by his father, the runt of the litter - Sanji is a secret Targaryen.
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Also, wasn't Adolf Hitler born from an incest thing ?
like, his uncle and his sister or something, don't remember who and who, but pretty sure he was. -
I thought it was obvious.
Plenty of people are ignorant enough of geography stuff that even basic things like that are worth pointing out to the forum at large.
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I'd like to present something for consideration, I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.
The Musketeer Minks in Zou are based on/inspired by this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogtanian_and_the_Three_MuskehoundsFor anyone who has never seen it, it's a retelling of the classic D'Artagnan where the people are animals, mostly dogs.
It aired in Japan during the 80's, so Oda would've been in the target demographic.
And Oda never hid his love for the shows he grew up with, like Vicky the Vicking.I'm only posting this now, and not last year when the Musketeer Minks appeared, because it was so obvious it didn't even click in my head.
Here in Portugal, the show was really really popular so it just seemed basic until one of my friends, who is an anime viewer, mentioned it. -
Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but those are all dogs. Except that mouse who I assume is Planchet. I think the cartoon might have aired in my country as well, but I'm not sure if it can be Oda's inspiration. He might just as well have been inspired by actual normal musketeers who he then turned into animals.
The only connection I can see is that those are dogs and OP musketeers are protecting a dog.
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Another Musketeers Anime
https://myanimelist.net/anime/2333/Anime_Sanjuushi! Type TV
Episodes 52
Status Finished Airing
Aired Oct 9, 1987 to Feb 17, 1989
Premiered Fall 1987
Broadcast Unknown
Producers NHK, Gakken
Licensors Unknown
Studios Studio Gallop
Source Novel
Genres Adventure, Drama, Historical, Romance
Duration 25 min. per ep.
Rating G - All Ages
! Oda's age during original run: 12-14
Just throwing it out there. -
Might as well throw in each of those dozens of existing musketeer themed cartoons. Slap in a shitload of movies, TV movies and TV shows while you're at it.
It's pretty hard to pinpoint the exact musketeer version that got stuck in Oda's mind and made him create his own version.
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Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but those are all dogs. Except that mouse who I assume is Planchet. I think the cartoon might have aired in my country as well, but I'm not sure if it can be Oda's inspiration. He might just as well have been inspired by actual normal musketeers who he then turned into animals.
The only connection I can see is that those are dogs and OP musketeers are protecting a dog.
The mouse is indeed Planchet.
I said minks in general but I guess it applies only to their leader, Inuarashi, and Wanda.
My point was Inuarashi, who formed the musketeers, is a dog because it's a reference to this show. Or more likely the other way around, he is a musketeer because Oda decided to make a dog-person.
Don't forget Nekomamushi loves lasagna because he's a cat and that's a small reference to Garfield.I'm not expecting more references to the 3 Musketeers. Be it from this show or other adaptations.
But Oda is know for throwing some visual references without going particularly further. The Admirals are a bit on the nose, but you also have Sanji being inspired by Mr Pink from Resevoir Dogs or a place called Bagdad Café in Arabasta.And like I mentioned, Oda has always said a big inspiration for his love of pirates is the series Vicky the Viking, an anime aimed at the same demographic and that aired around the same time.
I'll ask Greg on his thread, maybe he can inquire if that was an actual reference or just pure chance.
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I find brook's and pedro's cloths close to medival persian cloths
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Mad moiselle Amand made me think about jeanne hebuterne by modigliani
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So, this big mook is dressed like Disney's version of Snow White.
He even has an apple stem to drive the joke home.
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Great catch! Behind him are also allusions to the seven dwarves.
The next enemy Pedro wipes out on the next pages seems to be a reference to the wolf of Little Red Riding Hood also.
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The big one that you two missed is the "hi-ho" on the shield.
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Does "hi-ho" have a relation to the disney's character?
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Ah, I never watched the movie with the original english voices, that went right beside my head.
To me they sang "Eu Vou" (I'm going)Eu vou, eu vou
p'ra casa agora eu vou(I'm going, I'm going
I'll be going home now) -
Fujin & Raijin as Big Mom's Prometheus & Zeus
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Fujin & Raijin as Big Mom's Prometheus & Zeus
[qimg]http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/2b/3c/ae40341d13b60e63999965de24766bac.png[/qimg]
Fujin is a wind god and Raijin is a thunder god. Neither of them could reasonably inspire Prometheus.
I'd guess that Prometheus and Zeus are based on Prometheus and Zeus of Greek mythology.
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You have to look at them from eastern mythology point of view, where Fujin & Raijin are always paired as the protectors of japanese shrines. Like what you see in Kaminarimon.
I have no idea how good is Oda-sensei's grasp on greek mythology, but lets take it as a creative freedom.
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There isn't really any other way to see Fujin and Raijin other than "from Eastern mythology point of view". Oda has this tendency to reference the surface-level appearance, traits, and powers of mythological beings rather than their deeper cultural roles. To use Raijin as an example, Oda referenced it in Enel's Amaru form, as a powerful Thunder God with drums on his back (and with his signature pose), rather than a guardian deity.
We see this in One Piece all the time, like with the Sphinx in Impel Down, which only takes on the basic appearance of a Sphinx, but not the legends associated with it. The Greek Gods though, aren't very visually distinct, but their powers over jurisdictions of nature certainly are. And that's what he references with Prometheus and Zeus.
His grasp on Greek mythology, I'd wager, is similar to most others who know of Greek mythology, in that he knows the names of the Gods and what they have power over.
He definitely knows enough to name the 3 ancient weapons after them.FC(3DS) - 2724-4238-5489 (LZTan)
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You have to look at them from eastern mythology point of view
Why? Oda named them after western mythological figures.
Do we also need to process Alabasta's Egyptian/Arab motifs in an "eastern point of view"? Oda's perfectly capable of taking influence from wherever he wants without it being injected with a half ton of Japan.
Like Bond said anyway…which one is Fujin? Prometheus? It doesn't match up at all.I have no idea how good is Oda-sensei's grasp on greek mythology, but lets take it as a creative freedom.
Probably pretty good? We have no reason to think its lousy. Prometheus is associated with fire in mythology, and uh…the character is a fiery sun thing. Looks like Oda knows enough to make that riff.
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@Bond:
His grasp on Greek mythology, I'd wager, is similar to most others who know of Greek mythology, in that he knows the names of the Gods and what they have power over.
He definitely knows enough to name the 3 ancient weapons after them.Well shabby enough at least that he's mixing the Roman names with the Greek originals in two of the cases.
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@Monkey:
Well shabby enough at least that he's mixing the Roman names with the Greek originals in two of the cases.
Unless that's a hint telling us that the ancient weapons weren't made by just one civilization!
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we're talking about ins-pi-ra-tions here..
sometimes he take the visual cues, like ener-raijin or usopp-pinokio
sometimes he take the symbolic cues, like aokiji-kizaru-akainu and momotaro's companion or don quixote's commanders and suits of card.we don't see aokiji-kizaru-akainu visually representing bird, monkey or dog.
In fact, when did one piece ever use both representations at the same time on its character? Which I think is one of the factors that make its characters so appealing to the readers. You fin something that kinda familiar, but it has been remixed to fit a new context.
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sometimes he take the symbolic cues, like aokiji-kizaru-akainu and momotaro's companion or don quixote's commanders and suits of card.
we don't see aokiji-kizaru-akainu visually representing bird, monkey or dog.
Except those are present directly in their names. And the commanders even have thrones with the shapes of cards, not to mention the Calamities being named after face cards.
There are not specific details that relate to Fujin and Raijin specifically either visually or verbally. The only shared elements are causing storms, but that in itself is very generic and prevalent as an ability for many gods across various pantheons.
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We only have one calamity name though. we can't asume king and queen are coming yet, but it's very likely with sheepshead and ginrummy.
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We only have one calamity name though. we can't asume king and queen are coming yet, but it's very likely with sheepshead and ginrummy.
There's a piece of paper in a picture in Oda's office that says "Kaido, King, Queen, Jack". I can't find it as of the moment on my phone, but I believe it's in the interview thread. So King and Queen are pretty much confirmed.
