Chapter 428 "Let's Return" Discussion

[onemoment]

@Malintex_Terek:

People in the Southwest have made careers out of collecting "lightning glass", which occurs when lightning strikes sand during storms. If Ener fought Croc, he'd turn him to glass and that would be the end of him.

We don't know if Mihawk has voodoo magic or not; I'm just saying I thought "cutting the elements" was the same as "dividing by zero" in context of the manga; Mihawk was so powerful he could do the impossible.

Then again, if he has voodoo it would be pretty lame since Zoro doesn't and he's been training physically solely with the belief that Mihawk achieved his skill and strength in the same way; through raw, unadulterated and constant training.

I think that's what all the Great legends in One Piece are supposed to do. What's Zoro final fight going to amount to if he fight's someone so low-tier? Enel was strong but…I feel that the future Shichibukai will surpass him.

I mean, just having a logia can't make you all powerful, otherwise Crocodile wouldn't be the "weakest Shichibukai."

[Polygon]

Off-Topic: Can anyone tell me what that little patch on the left side of the Scarface VA's neck is? I'm coloring him and it would help to know what to do with the little patch thing.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Octogon:

Why people say Enel or Croc can beat Mihawk is above me.

I bet it would, wouldn't it? Since we know less about Mihawk than Croc or Ener, that automatically makes him stronger since he's more "mysterious", eh?

@Octogon:

You are not Oda. You do not know what he meant. As of now we have to assume that Mihawk cutting the lements means just that.

Oh, ho, ho. Since I'm not Oda, I'm automatically wrong, but since you're not Oda, you're automatically right. Wait, what?

@Octogon:

This is a manga. Is it really so hard to believe Mihawk (and others, probaley) can harm logia's without exposing their weakness? It's no less believeable than sprouting extra lmbs or Asura.

Asura is an illusion; it's not real. Cutting through Ener/Croc doesn't seem so spectacular but actually harming them is another matter, and if Mihawk could, he'll clearly always be a stronger swordsman than Zoro since outside of some stupid trick, there's no way Zoro could harm Croc or Ener either.

The only way I could see Mihawk defeating a Logia is if he could kill the "devil" inside of Devil Fruit users, like how Shiki Tohno can cut "existence" when following death lines.

@Octogon:

I'm sorry. I did not realize that you knew the limits in speed to the OP world. I also did not notice that it is obvious that lighting has to be faster than any living thing in a manga, right?

Yes it does. With that kind of speed, Ener could travel around our world three times in a single second.

[Voodzik]

I just had an interesting thought. What if, after it got them to water 7, a pursuing VA arrived and blew up Merry before it could finish saying goodbye and sink? (Which is what I think it will do.)

Pissoff Usopp would kick some ASS.

[Polygon]

@Malintex_Terek:

Yes it does. With that kind of speed, Ener could travel around our world three times in a single second.

I'll get back to you later, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

[hunterstalker]

@odlam:

There's no such thing as a non-tiered group

Yes, there is likely a minimum power for being a VA, but that's the minimum. It's not, "Oh you have to be Shichibaki level just to qualify for VA membership" thats just overhyping it to death and back.

This will be my last post on this topic too, it really is differing opinions I guess. I can't see how people can blindly assign such a high and completely flat level to a unit that we have seen do jack squat and have complete faith in the concept, especially considering the completely underwhelming performance of the captains, I see no reason to assume these VA's would completely overperform.

Shichibaki level it's an exageration, they aren't a power of the grand line or anything, but neither is the cp9.

if any Admiral get he's own arc the VAs( any) could be workable underlings for them .

[gaara d. lucci]

Can Ener move as fast as lighting? One must wonder if he could, he would have used it during the fight with Luffy (like the DBZ/OP crossover, I not it ain't canon).

[Voodzik]

@Malintex_Terek:

Oh, ho, ho. Since I'm not Oda, I'm automatically wrong, but since you're not Oda, you're automatically right. Wait, what

I think he may be referring to you're use of your opinions as fact, the assumption that any opinion other than yours is stupid, your total resistance to logic or evidence, and all the other little things that make you just such a SPECIAL person to disagree with ^______^

[Malintex_Terek]

@onemoment:

I mean, just having a logia can't make you all powerful, otherwise Crocodile wouldn't be the "weakest Shichibukai."

Stop treating your baseless opinions as fact. Did Oda say, "Croc is the weakest Shichibukai"? He has a lower bounty than de Flamingo or Bartholomew Kuma but as we've seen TIME AND AGAIN, bounties don't mean crack. Ener would have a 500,000,000 bounty if he was in the Blue Seas; DOES THAT MAKE HIM STRONGER THAN LUFFY?

[onemoment]

@gaara:

Can Ener move as fast as lighting? One must wonder if he could, he would have used it during the fight with Luffy (like the DBZ/OP crossover, I not it ain't canon).

No, I do not think he is. He can "teleport" with that speed every new and then, but when he is in his "normal form" his has a human level of speed. For if he were really as fast as lightning, Luffy would have never hit him.

Edit: Hey, where is the source the says the Croc is the weakest shichibukai? I know I heard it somewhere, I just can't remember. He sure was treated that way after losing in after Alabasta…

[gaara d. lucci]

@onemoment:

No, I do not think he is. He can "teleport" with that speed every new and then, but when he is in his "normal form" his has a human level of speed. For if he were really as fast as lightning, Luffy would have never hit him.

Much thanks, Enel should've trained his power some more because he could've been one of the fastest characters in the series.

[Polygon]

@Malintex_Terek:

Stop treating your baseless opinions as fact. Did Oda say, "Croc is the weakest Shichibukai"? He has a lower bounty than de Flamingo or Bartholomew Kuma but as we've seen TIME AND AGAIN, bounties don't mean crack. Ener would have a 500,000,000 bounty if he was in the Blue Seas; DOES THAT MAKE HIM STRONGER THAN LUFFY?

**Wrong…..

No offense Terk, but I think you're cracking.

Well, good-night. I'm going to bed, If you are still here tomorrow then I'll reply to your posts.

@ one moment: Croc isn't the weakest, since he's a logia. He's definatley no the strongest though. And I'm pretty sure he's the weakest if somone would expose his weakness.**

[Malintex_Terek]

@Voodzik:

1. Use of your opinions as fact
2. The assumption that any opinion other than yours is stupid
3. Your total resistance to logic or evidence,
4. The other little things that make you just such a SPECIAL person to

1. You mean use strong real-world empirical evidence to support a theory in a world that also uses "real world empirical evidence" in a phenomenon known as "explanations"? Oda uses them, why shouldn't I?
2. There's nothing wrong with that when I'm debating onemoment, Voodzik or Octogon. You three have demonstrated to me time and again how One Piece can attract people with many different characteristics, including people who lack what is commonly referred to as cognitive reasoning.
3. Holy mother of Oda.
4. Ahh, you must be referring to my dashing bow-tie. Yes, I do fancy it myself.

[DarkHamster]

This post is deleted!

[Voodzik]

@Malintex_Terek:

1. You mean use strong real-world empirical evidence to support a theory in a world that also uses "real world empirical evidence" in a phenomenon known as "explanations"? Oda uses them, why shouldn't I?
2. There's nothing wrong with that when I'm debating onemoment, Voodzik or Octogon. You three have demonstrated to me time and again how One Piece can attract people with many different characteristics, including people who lack what is commonly referred to as cognitive reasoning.
3. Holy mother of Oda.
4. Ahh, you must be referring to my dashing bow-tie. Yes, I do fancy it myself.

Ok, I'll admit. I like the bow tie. It is indeed special.

[onemoment]

@Malintex_Terek:

Stop treating your baseless opinions as fact. Did Oda say, "Croc is the weakest Shichibukai"? He has a lower bounty than de Flamingo or Bartholomew Kuma but as we've seen TIME AND AGAIN, bounties don't mean crack. Ener would have a 500,000,000 bounty if he was in the Blue Seas; DOES THAT MAKE HIM STRONGER THAN LUFFY?

Well, I can't list where I heard Croc was the weakest shichibukai, but I sure remember him getting treated like crap after they tried to replace him.

Still though, you're saying that because he don't know how these guys can hurt Croc that we should assume he's stronger? Well what about Whitebeard? He don't know what his power is either, yet it's assumed that he is the strongest man in the world, while Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world.

Still though, Zoro's dream is in a sad state of affairs when his supposed greatest enemy is weaker then two mid card enemies (if OP is in the middle storywise right now, then Croc and Enel's arcs took place before the middle) like Croc and Enel are far superior to him.

But listen to this, is Zoro can cut steel by listening to it's "breath" then why can't someone cut the impossible "elements" by listening to there "breath." It doesn't logically make sense, but's that what everyone excepts when Zoro cuts steel. Mihawk, to be the worlds strongest swordsman, needs a little more then that to own that title. Mr. 1 and Kaku will have to be like nothing by the time he gets there.

[odlam]

Sooooo does anyone else think that the Admirals are way too unemotional.
Gawh just said something, more make a facial expression. The Strawhats just kick some major government butt.

A stoic experssion shall not save them in the end. After everything the BC did in the past, I would highly doubt the modern day version getting off lightly. It's going to get thrashed somehow or another.

And unless these VA's are modern day Ako-iji's in the wings, it won't matter much. All discussions earlier aside, we'll probably know before this arc ends just where the VA's stand.

Dunno how, maybe W7 will have some revenge, god knows the Going Merry isn't going to take them all on. Maybe Sanji did some sabotage, maybe the whirlpools will reappear, god only knows. But comeuppance is coming shortly methinks.

[GearSecond]

@Malintex_Terek:

Stop treating your baseless opinions as fact. Did Oda say, "Croc is the weakest Shichibukai"? He has a lower bounty than de Flamingo or Bartholomew Kuma but as we've seen TIME AND AGAIN, bounties don't mean crack. Ener would have a 500,000,000 bounty if he was in the Blue Seas; DOES THAT MAKE HIM STRONGER THAN LUFFY?

no. and Rob Lucci would be able to (just barely) beat him. so Luffy should easily be in the 500 million and maybe like 500,000 category, roughly.

can't wait to see the next chapter! Hmm if Luffy was knocked out in Luffy vs Crocodile afte rhe beat Crocodile, but most of ti was from the poison starting to take more effect(the antidote isn't some miracle instant curing cure!) and we wore himself out. thar recovery took 3 days of rest, and 15 meals missed.

How lnog will this one last? he can't even move. if it wern't for Jet Gattling Gun he'd have never won, he was lucky he pulled that off.

I giv eit a week, maybe 2. in the confusion of Enies Lobby and the fact tha tthe Buster Call was recently called, I think that they won't be able to get into Water 7 for about a month, by then they'll be long gone of course.

then who knows what? the red line must be coming back up again soon. one of the next couple Islands will likely be the last on that side of the Grand Line.

back to Bounty, the world government doesn't want to make themeselves seem weak, and give over 500 million to someone so suddenly, and basically say he was at least 5X the threat, especially if they cover-up. which never is truely a cover up because Marnes and citizens know.

and now they have a city that is in charge of World Government ships(mostly) folloiwng Luffy too. he'll probably find a way to fix their Sinking Problem too.

the wait is killling me. but be pain for people who started reading and watching back when it first came out, they've endured 9-10 years of this torment, there wasn't a large gap to cover to catch up like I had. and I regret rushing to it.

but it was just too good.

Luffy's bound to get a bounty likely in the 300 million range, of course based upon Strength which factors into their threat, he should exceed 500 million. which is actually pretty much the level he's at.

DonQuixote DoFlamingo-sama liekly would have a 600 to 800 million bounty, but of course he's a Shuchibukai so he has no bounty(since they drop it as long as they are Shichibukai) but he definatly seems to have been someone who was like Bellamy, except he didn't stop getting bounty, so the Government probably chose him. otherwise I see no reason why he'd be good for intimidation, other than legends of his strength and how fast he rose. he wears pink feathers and tights afterall, but luckily isn't another Bon Clay.

I wonder what the people over in Japan are thinking about it right now.

[Malintex_Terek]

Octogon:

Circumference of the Earth: 40,041.47 km
Speed of Lightning in Air: 150,000 km/s

150,000/40,041.47 = 3.75

Ener could go 3 3/4 of the way around the world in a single second. Yeah, I totally have no idea what I am talking about.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I may indeed be wrong! Hold a moment (onemoment) hah.

@onemoment:

Still though, you're saying that because he don't know how these guys can hurt Croc that we should assume he's stronger? Well what about Whitebeard? He don't know what his power is either, yet it's assumed that he is the strongest man in the world, while Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world.

Oda said, though, that Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world. He also said Mihawk was the strongest _swords_man. Who is stronger between them? Some retards will say, "Mihawk", but obviously it would be impossible to have those two fight on equal grounds; if Whitebeard was fighting as a swordsman, he could win, but Mihawk sure as heck wouldn't as a "man".

This is what odlam was saying, and it is also what I was saying in the last CD. There are different categories to measure "strength" yet people here are attempting to use the same measurement, whether that measurement be bounties or victory, to determine who is "stronger".

The way I see it,

Strongest Man in the World: Whitebeard
Strongest Swordsman in the World: Mihawk
Toughest Villan: Crocodile
Strongest Villan (thus far): Lucci
Most Dangerous Villan: Ener
Most Powerful Villan (thus far): Ener
Smartest Villan (thus far): Crocodile

Aside from the first two, everything is just my evaluation.

@onemoment:

Still though, Zoro's dream is in a sad state of affairs when his supposed greatest enemy is weaker then two mid card enemies (if OP is in the middle storywise right now, then Croc and Enel's arcs took place before the middle) like Croc and Enel are far superior to him.

But listen to this, is Zoro can cut steel by listening to it's "breath" then why can't someone cut the impossible "elements" by listening to there "breath." It doesn't logically make sense, but's that what everyone excepts when Zoro cuts steel. Mihawk, to be the worlds strongest swordsman, needs a little more then that to own that title. Mr. 1 and Kaku will have to be like nothing by the time he gets there.

That's what I'm saying; there's a special trick Mihawk might have to cutting through a Devil Fruit, since he can cut through elements just fine though he can't kill the Logia user he's battling. However, we've yet to know if this is the case; I'm not one to make any assumptions about such a power.

[DarkHamster]

This post is deleted!

[onemoment]

@Malintex_Terek:

1. You mean use strong real-world empirical evidence to support a theory in a world that also uses "real world empirical evidence" in a phenomenon known as "explanations"? Oda uses them, why shouldn't I?
2. There's nothing wrong with that when I'm debating onemoment, Voodzik or Octogon. You three have demonstrated to me time and again how One Piece can attract people with many different characteristics, including people who lack what is commonly referred to as cognitive reasoning.
3. Holy mother of Oda.
4. Ahh, you must be referring to my dashing bow-tie. Yes, I do fancy it myself.

I just realized….you're using science to explain fantasy...you idiot. (jk)

Shounen anime and science/conventional logic don't mix. Typically, the entire comic book and manga genre develops their own rules, sciences, and laws of physics because….they don't know science themselves. Check "superdickery.com" and you'll see Superman trying to use ventriloquism to talk in space.

More on topic though, Shounen manga is basically a genre that creates its own rules. For example, DBZ is a world where dinosaurs exist, capsules can hold an oceans supply of water in them, and people fly using "ki."

Naruto is a world where the level of technology is undfined, "blood lines" give ninjas specfic types of powers, and chakra can turn you into a giant shruiken.

One Piece is a world where people constantly get stabed in vital areas and live, fruits give people great power, and a shipwright can build himself into a functioning cyborg.

Basically, there's no science to this. Logically, Enel's power should, and right not could beat anyone that can conduct electricity. But that powe is as thin as the rules in any shounen manga, and when a certian "technique" is invented then it means a new law.

So, it Mihawk cut "cut the elements" then he can cut Enel, which is basically breaking the logia power.

Edit: Hmm, I posted this before you're various comments. Oh well.

[Myoti]

The only way I could see Mihawk defeating a Logia is if he could kill the "devil" inside of Devil Fruit users, like how Shiki Tohno can cut "existence" when following death lines.

Ooh, now that's actually a rather interesting thought.

If the the "breath" ends up on some of these levels, it sort of makes me think of him doing some kind of… "spiritual lightsaber?" o.O

[DarkHamster]

This post is deleted!

[4ghost]

@Aldrich:

Where did you get that? I only remember Scarface saying Lucci was CP9 most powerful member in history, nothing about the others. Lucci is a particular case, for the others honestly I doubt the CP9 would make any of the higher ups of the One Piece world loose sleep.

from pocketmofo's translation
Marine: …No way…!! The CP9 squad considered to be the strongest in the history of Cypher Pool…for their leader, Mr. Rob Lucci, to have been beaten by a pirate…!!

@Terek
With Enel having both lightning logia and hearts net it would seem that no one without a rubber body should be able to harm him. However I believe Oda had stated in an SBS that Lucci would just barely beat Enel in a battle. Can add to that what Luffy stated in his fight with Enel. "In the Blue Sea there are a lot of monstorous guys to defeat someone like you."

Anyway I'm thinking that Merry will be chased by some of the Buster Call ships that are able to escape the whirlpools. Merry will take the Strawhats to where Franky left the dream ship that he built. The fire power of Franky's greatest ship will destroy the remaining BC ships. Afterall the Battle Frankys were designed to be capable of defeating the Sea King species.

[Malintex_Terek]

@4ghost:

@Terek
With Enel having both lightning logia and hearts net it would seem that no one without a rubber body should be able to harm him. However I believe Oda had stated in an SBS that Lucci would just barely beat Enel in a battle. Can add to that what Luffy stated in his fight with Enel. "In the Blue Sea there are a lot of monstorous guys to defeat someone like you."

No, that supposed "SBS question" has been refuted many times by the Japanese speakers on this board; it's just speculation someone put up on Wikipedia that the people here believed.

Regarding Luffy, his survival against Ener is withing "suspension of disbelief" because of the Devil Fruit concept. Remember, bones are not hollow (unless one is a bird), yet Luffy was able to inflate his; ergo, he must have hollow bones, which is something he clearly did not have as a normal human. There are a number of Gomu Gomu quirks that are within our sense of believability, and total immunity to electricity would be it.

However, saying Mihawk is "stronger" than Ener based solely on his reputation versus what we have seen of Ener's powers isn't exactly the same.

[Onigumo]

How did we end up discussing Mihawk vs. Enel? Besides Enel's ship being on the cover page, neither of them are in this chapter….Anyway I had a thought on Merry.

What if the buster call ship bows are over Merry, and none of the people on board can see that tiny caravel (The type of ship that Merry is....) Then they leave while Merry sails around wreckage, and the SHP's are presumed dead. Or Merry might be in a position where the Cannon's can't angle.

For next chapter, I think we will find out what that 'uncool' thing that Sanji had to take care of.

[unchipu]

@Malintex_Terek:

However, saying Mihawk is "stronger" than Ener based solely on his reputation versus what we have seen of Ener's powers isn't exactly the same.

I have to say that I agree with this. Like people have said, manga follows its own laws of physics, and nothing can be assumed to hold true unless clearly stated in the text itself. It's fine to hypothesize, but since it is impossible to test these hypotheses, they can't be stated as fact. In this case, I don't recall anything that's happened in the series thus far that suggests it would be possible to cut elements. I think Zoro may have said something about cutting things without physical form when he was practicing the cannon move on Skypeia (after the party), but nobody has shown that this is possible yet. This isn't to say that Mihawk couldn't defeat Enel, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he could do it by directly cutting him.

Back on topic, it seems really random for Merry to come and save the day. I mean it was a great scene when everyone was jumping aboard, but was it really necessary? I guess that next chapter we'll be seeing the results of whatever Sanji did, and maybe finally we'll see what kind of tricks Usopp has with Kabuto.

[Vanessa]

I just wish we could've seen reactions from all 5 Vice-Admirals. The one on Aldrich's avatar obviously didn't give two shits hat Lucci lost. But maybe one of the others would've had a different reaction to it. Anyone think that these guys are stronger than kaku and Jyabura, but weaker than Lucci. One or two of them should be stronger than Lucci, but I don't really see all five of them being that high up.

To make this post on topic. I'm a little dissappointed on how merry just popped up, but I really wasn't expecting them to get away with that escape ship. I'm just wondering how in the hell are they going to escape the damn Buster Call.

[hyakamaru]

@immelmann:

What a great chapter~~~! Franky sure like to bawl like a child! nuahh~!

I cleaned up the pages real quick and joined the spread. enjoy!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/7jj0jm

@UNKNOWNFILE:

mirror omg

(16 characters omg)

@Bonkers:

Here's pocketmofo's chapter 428 translation.

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=8845.0

gotcha. :) first post updated.

[boiga]

I really wish people would give up on the idea of the whirlpools coming back. The whirlpools were some how created by the fence and the gate of justice along side that giant, inexplicable crevasse.

Well, there is no more fence or gate, it's all been destroyed by the Bustercall, meaning that there is no chance of returning whirlpools destroying the BC ships.

I still think we might see a tidal wave coming though…

[Leaf Cable]

I just thought of something, maybe a spoiler but hopefully not: what if the Klaubatermann is the next crewmember? He's short and technically a shipwright (a paranormal one). If the Going Merry ship is destroyed, couldn't the Klaubatermann survive and carry on with the rest of the crew? I'm sorry if this seems stupid, but after reading chapter 352 (I think that's it), it would perhaps make sense.
If that is the case, then neither Franky or Paulie would be the Shipwright for the Strawhats. Going Merry's Klaubatermann would be the Shipwright! Then that means this chapter makes sense and the Water 7 events would make sense as well after all!
Do correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure that I am. At least I'm not bitching about the chapter this time! Heh heh!

[sabret00the]

@onemoment:

Wait, you didn't like Nami's joining? Well whatever, there's one detailing your missing. The Buster Call shot that ship earlier, most likely killing the 1000 marines within.

Sure, the are faceless characters, but they are dead either way. If you're going to complain that it's not enough, keep in mind that the characters are in the spotlight for a reason–they survive while the uninteresting characters fade away. And come to think of it, how to we know that some of those Franky Family members have died? We haven't accounted for them. There, there's your blood.

Also, who said that this arc was about sacrifice? There's been talk about sacrifice but that's hardly the theme. It's more about keeping the crew together.

Killing your own and failing to kill anyone else, i'd rather leave it as a non-detail.

As for Nami's joining, i never said that, i just said that i never wanted a duplicate of it. I like originality.

I'm not sure how it's not about the sacrifices people make in the name of friendship, from Robin joining to the crew declaring war with the world government, as luffy said "i don't care about the marines or the world government, i've just come for Robin". it's about throwing everything away for your goal. Even Chopper understood that and thus through his life away in order to save Robin. I honestly don't see how you can say it's not about sacrifice.

[Malintex_Terek]

@onemoment:

No, I do not think he is. He can "teleport" with that speed every new and then, but when he is in his "normal form" his has a human level of speed. For if he were really as fast as lightning, Luffy would have never hit him.

Ener has to become pure lightning to move at the speed I noted before, which is why he can "teleport". As for why he didn't teleport all the time to avoid Luffy, there are a number of explanations we can come up with to explain Oda's very simple intention of "making the fight interesting".

Remember, Croc can fly. Why would he walk/run when he can fly?

@onemoment:

Edit: Hey, where is the source the says the Croc is the weakest shichibukai? I know I heard it somewhere, I just can't remember. He sure was treated that way after losing in after Alabasta…

I looked in all the SBS and there is nothing of the sort.

[sabret00the]

I'm not sure if he's the weakest but he has the lowest bounty, i think that was stated in a chapter.

[Malintex_Terek]

@sabret00the:

I'm not sure if he's the weakest but he has the lowest bounty, i think that was stated in a chapter.

Croc's mentioning in the SBS:

~Volume 31: Regarding his title, "Sir".
Volume 36: Regarding his bounty status if an active pirate.

There's nothing in either instance that talk about Croc in comparison to his Shichibukai contemporaries.

[Utena]

Didn't Franky or someone say that the Klaubatermann not only repair ships but sometimes it helps in more important ways? i think Franky said that to Ussop in W7 i just can recall exactly what he said but im sure it was something like that, so wouldnt merry's help be like what Franky told Ussop?

[dewagila]

hey … merry is speaking ????

[GeMaNeOg]

i started reading this thread today… sure you ppl talk a lot...

first of all, speaking of me at least, oda never disappointed me in this manga / anime. he always had an explanation, and it surely seemed that he had almost all details in his mind from the very start. so i guess we can all wait to see his explanation for merry.

anyway, about merry reappearing, i kinda was expecting sth awesome to happen with the ship, with lots of scenarios coming up, but THIS? not even a scenario to my head... never expected it, it got me the chills when i read the chapter... ONE GREAT HURRAY FOR ODA PPL, he deserves it...

about the death stuff, one piece is not a sad story, not a story about great massacres (even though ohara was one). it's a story, that contains pretty much everything a man could imagine, and lots of more... there was no point GLC adn FF ppl dying there, we already saw the power of BC.

ow, and i'm glad to see another greek person in here :P

[LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP]

I want to know where this rumor of mihawk cutting element came from , because i have the 2 data books and it is stated NOWHERE that mihawk can do this kind of things .

Concerning the VA , they are as strong if not stronger than lucci , among them nobody give a shit about lucci being defeated , the "…...." of scarface means nothing because lucci has been doing the same thing a couple of time during the arc , if lucci were stronger they would be shocked or saying something like : " I can't believe this ......rob lucci the strongest cp9 in history...... it's a nightmare!!!" instead of that we get a who give a shit feeling .

Saying the VA are weak because they don't fight is a little bit ridiculous because there are people in one piece who haven't fight yet too, shanks , dragon , the blackbeard crew and people assume they are strong .

If lucci was a marine he would be above colonel rank but still under VA rank , saying the are weak is saying that smoker is weak because he his more VA level than colonel level , i agree with the fact that the VA are not on the same level and that there might be some who are stronger than the others but i am sure that even the weakest of them is still above the average cp9 .

I think that the fact that people need them to be "weaker" than lucci is just for them to not outshine the cp9 glory but in my eyes the cp9 has been outshined ( i don't know if the word is right ^^) since the moment the buster call ship and the VA arrived at EL .

I m sure they won't fight now but i m also sure their purpose is more to be the witness of the strawhat power , they are the ones who will decide to put higher bounties on the strawhat and that's why they are observing them with attention right now ( i am thinking about scarface because he is the VA who has been shown the most ) .

[kljs]

how many people here thinks that Oda isn't going to replace the Going Merry at all after this chapter?

well, I think Oda will go on with the Going Merry…... I am really disappointed.....

[LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP]

Don't be disappointed , i m sure it's his last appearance , when they will arrive to the next island ( W7 or another island ) they will see that they were on a wrecked ship who was posseded by the GM spirit , they will cry and say goodby to the merry , it will be a scene full of tears ( it's not sarcasm , i really think it would go that way , but it's just opinion ) .

[kljs]

@LUCCI:

Don't be disappointed , i m sure it's his last appearance , when they will arrive to the next island ( W7 or another island ) they will see that they were on a wrecked ship who was posseded by the GM spirit , they will cry and say goodby to the merry , it will be a scene full of tears ( it's not sarcasm , i really think it would go that way , but it's just opinion ) .

I also think it will be that way, but I can't stop help feeling that Oda is not going to go with that scenario…...because from the Going Merry's 2 sentences at the end of this chapter........

[patz]

@kljs:

I also think it will be that way, but I can't stop help feeling that Oda is not going to go with that scenario…...because from the Going Merry's 2 sentences at the end of this chapter........

I'm afraid so. I wish this is the last thing Merry can do to help his friends.

[Coup de Manthong]

Yeah, the Going Merry was MEANT to 'die', in a way. All this buildup and foreshadowing just to have EVERYTHING return the way it was?

I don't know what will happen next chapter, though. I guess we'll just see how it unfolds.

I still think that this arc won't end without a 'price' paid, at least of some sort.

[psolaras]

@Malintex_Terek:

No, that supposed "SBS question" has been refuted many times by the Japanese speakers on this board; it's just speculation someone put up on Wikipedia that the people here believed.

Regarding Luffy, his survival against Ener is withing "suspension of disbelief" because of the Devil Fruit concept. Remember, bones are not hollow (unless one is a bird), yet Luffy was able to inflate his; ergo, he must have hollow bones, which is something he clearly did not have as a normal human. There are a number of Gomu Gomu quirks that are within our sense of believability, and total immunity to electricity would be it.

However, saying Mihawk is "stronger" than Ener based solely on his reputation versus what we have seen of Ener's powers isn't exactly the same.

to make a long story short

in one piece red it's stated that mihawk can cut through elements so enel has no chance against him (oda made the books although in some books translated in europe it's not stated,anyway it is mentioned in wikipedia that mihawk is stated to cut through elements in red and people from japan told that too or maybe oda has said it in a sbs too)

personally i think that mihawk has the trully breath of things,i think he can breath steel,elements,seastone and anything else he wants to cut,

not to mention that if zoro can project an image with his spirit (asura) imagine what mihawk can do

and since one piece is going to last 1000 chapters according to oda,zoro will propably face mihawk in the last arc as the only thing between him and his dream and i don't think anyone except of whitebeard being stronger than him right now since he has that "special relationship" with the straw hats second strongest

and one simple question for you terek and everyone else that doesn't believe mihawk can cut through elements or defeat logias,(i am not flaming you,i am just making you understand),let's say yosaku or johny ate enel's fruit or enel decided to change his stick into a sword or some logia is also a swordsman, then how can mihawk be above all swordsmen (zeff's words) if he can't defeat in any of those cases?

now i agree with what some say that lucci and kaku might be stronger than enel and mr.1 but i don't think they could beat them,they would be exhausted some time dodging and attacking with no meaning and sometime they would be killed

but the cp9 were the best opponents till now since luffy,sanji and zoro learned how to match them in speed,luffy and sanji got an upgrade and zoro made his spirit stronger (and maybe has learned something like mandora since kaku wondered in their duel if he can predict his moves when zoro cut him a little after kaku avoided the kuma attack with geppou)

so the cp9 arc promishes many things to come

[Fat Tony the Chopper]

I'm pretty sure Oda will replace the ship. There's still the thing with Franky's dream about him want to build a dream ship that will travel to the end of the world, and that's a big thing. If patching up the Going Merry, a ship of someone else's design, to make it seaworthy again is all he ends up doing then his dream would go unfulfilled. He needs design and build his own ship from scratch, possibly using pieces from the Going Merry along with new parts to 'transfer' the spirit over or something.

[castel]

Merry will be never replaced.

It will be boosted by franky i think but not replaced.

I think the message is clear in the last chapter, Merry has a soul and it's a full member of the crew.

The franky's dream of building a brand and powerfull new ship shall probably become to make Merry the greatest ship ever.

Before the come back of Merry the crew saw it, except Usopp, just like a tool, a simple boat and really nothing more.

But now all is different.

[patz]

Oda said he will kill one of Strawhat's member this year. Most likely Merry will be replaced.

[hyper_megaman]

@psolaras:

and one simple question for you terek and everyone else that doesn't believe mihawk can cut through elements or defeat logias,(i am not flaming you,i am just making you understand),let's say yosaku or johny ate enel's fruit or enel decided to change his stick into a sword or some logia is also a swordsman, then how can mihawk be above all swordsmen (zeff's words) if he can't defeat in any of those cases?

btw side note

in that usage, swordsman = a person skilled/focusing on the usage of the blade
to be the strongest swordsman = to be unrivalled in the use of the blade

enel with a sword would only make a sword-holding-lightningman

whitebeard could hold a sword too u know, but he sure as hell won't be able to use it as well as mihawk
so could luffy, when he becomes pirate king/strongest one day. holding the sword wouldn't mean he's a swordsman

[Vixen_Dark]

Hmmm… Maybe the Klabauterman will help Franky build a new ship? -wonders-

I'm really happy to see Merry back. I'm a sap for the cute little ship.

And caravels can take quite a beating, you know.

According to Wikipedia:

Because of its smaller size the caravel was able to explore up river in shallow coastal waters. With the lateen sails affixed it was able to go speedily over shallow water and take deep wind, while with the square Atlantic-type sails attached, the caravel was very fast. Its economy, speed, agility, and power made the caravel esteemed as the best sailing vessel of its time. It generally carried two or three masts with lateen sails, while later types had four masts.

I really would like to see Merry stay in some form, at least. Because I'm sure it will never completely be gone.