A powerup to control soul? Nah, too common..
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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If Brookes powers are over, then why can't he swim?
Is the juice of the fruit like soaked in his bones?? that makes no sense
I think his power probably still works. As a live forever fruit
Wait what? DFs are always active until the user dies. This particular gives the user a 2nd life. So his new life is solely dependent on when he ate the DF so it is always activated. It has nothing to do with the juice in the fruit, one bite and you are a DF user, the side effect is you are weak to the sea. As along as Brook is alive he won't be able to swim. Given his explanation you can assume that his DF specifically effects his soul(and yes his soul is also in his bones).
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I think if we look at the Manga, he is send to The Realm of the Death.
Maybe he finds more Skeletons there, who can help him to upgrade him. And maybe he is going to learn some sort of chant which activates his inner DF powers..
I mean, Chopper has the Human Human fruit. Normally you only have 3 different forms. Chopper managed to make 7 forms. (8)
Why can't Brook also upgrade his DF with some music? Which release's hidden potential of his DF.
I think he can't control souls directly. But can summon sort of Minions from the Underworld. Or Shades to fight with him.
This could solve the problem of the amount of crewmembers the SH has.
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Brooks music imbued with Haki (THERE I SAID IT LOL)
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Brooks devil fruit is probably the most useless one in the entire series. Especially if it only resurrects the person once and doesn't make them immortal (every time he dies or his body is destroyed, his soul stays behind to find a new one). Think Voldemort from Harry Potter. Now that would be a cool ability. Had almost anyone eaten that fruit besides Brook it wouldn't of helped them at all.
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so i guess it wasnt "pretty pointless" for Brooke then…
or anyone else who woulda ate it cause you get to come back to life when you die. Im sure he coulda went in another corpse/ souless body if he wanted to
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Perhaps Brook can imbue haki into music and become some sort of bard-type character?
Maybe he can play songs that boost the entire crew's haki, and songs that confuse the opponents.
Then he can combine haki, music, and his hell-hell fruit to revive just-dead nakama.:D
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@Skull:
Brooks devil fruit is probably the most useless one in the entire series. Especially if it only resurrects the person once and doesn't make them immortal (every time he dies or his body is destroyed, his soul stays behind to find a new one). Think Voldemort from Harry Potter. Now that would be a cool ability. Had almost anyone eaten that fruit besides Brook it wouldn't of helped them at all.
Sounds like faux immortality.
It's already been official that the DFs that can be deemed as "useless" are in the paramecia category for the most part.
As for Brook's DF seeing as he got brought back to life it's probably one of the most useful/powerful fruits out there. Think if Roger had that DF.
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Think if Roger had that DF.
You are an idiot ha ha ha ha ha He will die again… disease much
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To be honest, that question isn't that silly as it appears at first sight. I mean ok, I have no doubts that Brook won't be able to do so but not because of the argument that a shadow ability is the one and a revival ability is the other thing.
I mean, shadow and revival ability being to different abilities are in itself no argument about the limit of their extent. I mean, if Oda wanted then he could have reduced Moria's fruit to only be able to manipulate his own shadow respectively he could have Brook go that far to revive more then just himself.
All I'm trying to say is there really is no specific reason why there should be a limit in numbers in DF abilities. Actually a pretty neat question in the end.
Besides, if that were the case there'd essentially be no difference between "Ambition" and Teach's Yami Fruit. He's the only one who can nullify Devil Fruit powers outside of a natural weakness or seastone.
Actually this entire Ambition development makes you wonder what the big deal with Teach's fruit/ability really is. You'd expect somebody like Teach to also be able to use Ambition, so why did he take such a risk to obtain the darkness ability. Or is it simply because his Ambition potential equals his bounty? I hope that there's more to it then simply a lack in Ambition potential.
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Actually this entire Ambition development makes you wonder what the big deal with Teach's fruit/ability really is.
Without straying horribly off-topic, I would simply say it would be the extent to which his powers work. I mean as an example, Rayleigh vs. Kizaru was a fairly equal fight from what we saw. Blackbeard vs. Kizaru would be arguably unfair, given Blackbeard can just suck Kizaru up to his hand, grab him by the neck, drain his powers, and then snap his neck with that hideous strength. If all else fails, make a blackhole.
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I mean, if Oda wanted then he could have reduced Moria's fruit to only be able to manipulate his own shadow respectively he could have Brook go that far to revive more then just himself.
I doubt it'll ever actually come up, since one of the main messages throughout Thriller Bark was that one shouldn't toy with the deceased. If Brook were capable and actually revived someone dead he'd be no better then Hogback or Moria.
Actually this entire Ambition development makes you wonder what the big deal with Teach's fruit/ability really is. You'd expect somebody like Teach to also be able to use Ambition, so why did he take such a risk to obtain the darkness ability. Or is it simply because his Ambition potential equals his bounty? I hope that there's more to it then simply a lack in Ambition potential.
It might simply be just that though.
Seems to me that one is born with the ability to utilize Ambition; it isn't something that can be acquired through any kind of training. Similar to how Zoro naturally became able to hear "breath" as a result of his fight with Daz Bones. Luffy subconsciously used it against Momotaro and during his fight with Marigold and Sandersonia.
Teach probably realized a long time ago that he had no knack for it; so instead he opted for the Yami Fruit.
Without straying horribly off-topic, I would simply say it would be the extent to which his powers work. I mean as an example, Rayleigh vs. Kizaru was a fairly equal fight from what we saw. Blackbeard vs. Kizaru would be arguably unfair, given Blackbeard can just suck Kizaru up to his hand, grab him by the neck, drain his powers, and then snap his neck with that hideous strength. If all else fails, make a blackhole.
It's not really unfair considering Teach can in fact be hit. Plus, one doesn't become an Admiral if canceling one's powers would be the end-all solution and bring about a loss so quickly.
Besides, if it were that simple Ace wouldn't have given Teach so much trouble during their fight. Sure the latter wasn't brought to his limits, but to say Ace was a pushover compared to him would be a mistake.
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Seems to me that one is born with the ability to utilize Ambition; it isn't something that can be acquired through any kind of training.
I really hope it does come to something like this. I mean the Amazons make it seem like you can learn it, but to what degree is likely where the twist comes in. Obviously Hancock and Luffy have something special though, which you are right does make it seem like something you are simply born with.
It's not really unfair considering Teach can in fact be hit. Plus, one doesn't become an Admiral if canceling one's powers would be the end-all solution and bring about a loss so quickly.
Well. Not really what I meant. Of course an admiral wouldn't be easy meat, I just meant to compare the difference between Blackbeard's Logia and Haki. Rayleigh (arguably) used Haki to fight on fairly equal grounds, where Blackbeard would have had much more of an advantage by being able to completely negate Kizaru's powers after he indefinitely gets his hands on him using gravity. I was intentionally exaggerating to get the point across, while attempting to add in a majority of the benefits the logia has.
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I really hope it does come to something like this. I mean the Amazons make it seem like you can learn it, but to what degree is likely where the twist comes in. Obviously Hancock and Luffy have something special though, which you are right does make it seem like something you are simply born with.
I personally see it as:
-If you're from Amzon Lily you will be born with the ability to use Ambition.
-If you're from anywhere else, it's basically luck of the draw.From that point, it's just a matter of training oneself to maximize usage of Ambition. Just because a character may have a natural knack for it, without making an effort to get better you might as well not have that gift. Basically it's like Sandersonia stated, even though Luffy has the Ambition of an "Overlord," without having control, it's nothing but idle vigor.
Well. Not really what I meant. Of course an admiral wouldn't be easy meat, I just meant to compare the difference between Blackbeard's Logia and Haki. Rayleigh (arguably) used Haki to fight on fairly equal grounds, where Blackbeard would have had much more of an advantage by being able to completely negate Kizaru's powers after he indefinitely gets his hands on him using gravity. I was intentionally exaggerating to get the point across, while attempting to add in a majority of the benefits the logia has.
Oh I know, I just figured I'd get you to say so since some wouldn't see it that way.
We don't want some petty argument to stem from a simple statement yes?
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I personally see it as:
-If you're from Amzon Lily you will be born with the ability to use Ambition.
-If you're from anywhere else, it's basically luck of the draw.Interesting. I never really thought of that. Of course, something as specific as that would need to be explained at some point, but as we still haven't received the Haki instruction manual I suppose it isn't far-fetched. Especially due to Sandersonia's words about non-Kuja being unable to use it and such. Though having both Shanks and Rayleigh capable makes the "luck of the draw" a little mo–- meh, let's just see what happens.
Oh I know, I just figured I'd get you to say so since some wouldn't see it that way.
Ugh. I suppose that is true. I hate you…
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Though having both Shanks and Rayleigh capable makes the "luck of the draw" a little mo–- meh, let's just see what happens.
Ace just happened to eat the Mera Fruit, Kuzan just happened to eat the Hie Fruit. Teach finally manages to eat the Yami Fruit while Luffy is on his journey to become Pirate King. See what I'm getting at?
I could go all day with this, but just remember that this is a Japanese comic. Powerful characters will have powerful abilities and a lot of luck.
Ugh. I suppose that is true. I hate you…
:ninja:
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I could go all day with this, but just remember that this is a Japanese comic. Powerful characters will have powerful abilities and a lot of luck.
Oi! I interrupted myself for a reason! I won't fall victim to your games.
[hide]@Vanessa:
Woop Slap doesn't have a last name.
Yasopp doesn't have a last name.
Iceburg doesn't have a last name.
Clover doesn't have a last name.
Ohm doesn't have a last name.
[/hide]
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Aww that's no fun.
Okay anyway! In an attempt to get back on-topic I personally don't see Brook ever gaining some kind of control over souls simply because his Devil Fruit wouldn't have anything to do with it. Brook is a Revival man. Similar to how Teach's Yami Fruit was an exception among Logias; the Yomi Fruit is an exception among Paramecias because it only gave him one aspect of the Devil Fruit. All others who ate a Paramecia Devil Fruit have been given either:
-the ability to control and create, but not become, whatever the particular fruit entails
(Mr. 3, Robin, Foxy, Blueno, Califa, Perona, Kuma, Kidd and Law)-the ability to control and literally become, but not create, whatever the particular fruit entails
(Luffy, Mr.5, Ms. Valentine, Daz Bones, Paula[Ms. Doublefinger], Hina, Bellamy, Berrigood, Shuu, Sharinguru, Absalom and Moria)All the Yomi Fruit gave Brook was the ability to become a Revival man. He couldn't control when it'd happen(it'd naturally happen after he died) nor could he create the ability to revive outside his own body.
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All the Yomi Fruit gave Brook was the ability to become a Revival man. He couldn't control when it'd happen(it'd naturally happen after he died) nor could he create the ability to revive outside his own body.
The question is, will he never "die" because of it? Or does it only work once?
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I doubt it'll ever actually come up, since one of the main messages throughout Thriller Bark was that one shouldn't toy with the deceased. If Brook were capable and actually revived someone dead he'd be no better then Hogback or Moria.
I don't think that it can be said that categorically. If he would have that power he would only be as bad as Hogbackk and Moria, if he uses it in the same way. If he however would revive people for their sake to continue their life then he's clearly not like those to freaks. I know Dr. Chopper (and thus Prof. Oda) would agree with me because this is exactly what he hoped for revival of the dead to be like.
Also, if you would define such a revival of the death to be a bad thing then practically everybody in Dragonball who used the balls to revive deceised characters would be on the same low level as Hogback and Moria. That's why I think we can't generalize it here.
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The question is, will he never "die" because of it? Or does it only work once?
Remember that during his flashback, as they were all dying the Yorki Pirates knew what Devil Fruit Brook ate, which means that it had been used at least once before. So maybe the first time it was used, when the Yomi Fruit activated, that person managed to get back to the body quick enough and simply lived the rest of his/her life?
Although if anything, he's more capable of living through otherwise fatal injuries(like getting stabbed through the head by Ryumma) and can last long periods of time without sustenance so Brook himself might indeed be immortal, but that's more because of returning back to his body a year too late rather than the Yomi Fruit itself.
I don't think that it can be said that categorically. If he would have that power he would only be as bad as Hogbackk and Moria, if he uses it in the same way. If he however would revive people for their sake to continue their life then he's clearly not like those to freaks. I know Dr. Chopper (and thus Prof. Oda) would agree with me because this is exactly what he hoped for revival of the dead to be like.
Also, if you would define such a revival of the death to be a bad thing then practically everybody in Dragonball who used the balls to revive deceised characters would be on the same low level as Hogback and Moria. That's why I think we can't generalize it here.
Well people in this topic were saying that Brook would be reviving people to have some sort of army. For that reason is why I see it as a bad thing.
However, if it's for the reasons you stated then…honestly I don't know whether to define it as good or bad. That's a different issue altogether.
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Brook basically being Mr. Immortal is not a good idea but since I know Oda won't kill him it's not like we'll ever get to find out in a fight. Every near death situation Brook will survive will be explained away by his light weight, bones, Afro, music, or perverseness…........
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Well people in this topic were saying that Brook would be reviving people to have some sort of army. For that reason is why I see it as a bad thing.
However, if it's for the reasons you stated then…honestly I don't know whether to define it as good or bad. That's a different issue altogether.
I see. Which means I win. ;P
Okay anyway! In an attempt to get back on-topic I personally don't see Brook ever gaining some kind of control over souls simply because his Devil Fruit wouldn't have anything to do with it. Brook is a Revival man. Similar to how Teach's Yami Fruit was an exception among Logias; the Yomi Fruit is an exception among Paramecias because it only gave him one aspect of the Devil Fruit. All others who ate a Paramecia Devil Fruit have been given either:
-the ability to control and create, but not become, whatever the particular fruit entails
(Mr. 3, Robin, Foxy, Blueno, Califa, Perona, Kuma, Kidd and Law)-the ability to control and literally become, but not create, whatever the particular fruit entails
(Luffy, Mr.5, Ms. Valentine, Daz Bones, Paula[Ms. Doublefinger], Hina, Bellamy, Berrigood, Shuu, Sharinguru, Absalom and Moria)All the Yomi Fruit gave Brook was the ability to become a Revival man. He couldn't control when it'd happen(it'd naturally happen after he died) nor could he create the ability to revive outside his own body.
Well that's exactly my point/question. Why should it only stop at him? His fruit is the "Revival Fruit", not the "Limited To One Person Revival Fruit" or the "Works Only Once Revival Fruit".
I mean in One Piece we have seen that there really are times where you can get a max out one ability as you would have never guessed so at first sight. True not, all abilities follow that pattern but as long as it isn't categorically ruled out it is still a valid guess that the ability can get extended to multiple persons.
Let's not forget that Brook had zero chances to test the limits of his ability. When his crew died, he died himself. And seeing that his soul returned from Hades it's not like he had a solid understanding of his powers back then. Otherwise he probably never would have returned to his body one year late.
And later on he was alone for the most part. It's not that people around kept constantly dying. There was only that one dude that perished under the sunlight and giving the shock of that experience plus losing your shadow might have been too much for him to consider how his ability works.
Again, I'm not saying that it has to work, but with all we've got so far I wouldn't rule it out. Though I really hope that he will never develop that power because then, Oda would probably develop the balls to kill off major characters only to have them revived DB-style by Brook. Do not want!
Remember that during his flashback, as they were all dying the Yorki Pirates knew what Devil Fruit Brook ate, which means that it had been used at least once before. So maybe the first time it was used, when the Yomi Fruit activated, that person managed to get back to the body quick enough and simply lived the rest of his/her life?
That doesn't have to mean anything. The Red Hair pirates also knew which fruit Luffy ate and we know that one definitely wasn't used before. Let's not forget that there's that one certain book that covers all the Devil Fruits that exist. That's how Teach knew which one was his Darkness Fruit. And I think the same applies to why Shanks' and Yorki's men knew of it.
Not saying that what you say isn't possible. But with what we've seen of the story so far it is likely that it's thanks to the book.
The question is, will he never "die" because of it? Or does it only work once?
Considering that he is a living skeleton I'd say that his power is constantly working. Also seeing that he's practically really old but still has seems to be as fit as he was when he died I'd say that he didn't age back then which also means that his ability is still active.
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Remember that during his flashback, as they were all dying the Yorki Pirates knew what Devil Fruit Brook ate, which means that it had been used at least once before.
Oh I know, I just figured I'd get you to say it so that the on-topic discussion would continue.
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Well that's exactly my point/question. Why should it only stop at him? His fruit is the "Revival Fruit", not the "Limited To One Person Revival Fruit" or the "Works Only Once Revival Fruit".
I mean in One Piece we have seen that there really are times where you can get a max out one ability as you would have never guessed so at first sight. True not, all abilities follow that pattern but as long as it isn't categorically ruled out it is still a valid guess that the ability can get extended to multiple persons.
I'm not exactly ruling it out, I just highly doubt we'll see another aspect of the Yomi Fruit since in my eyes, it doesn't exist. If it does though, as long as it's entertaining then I've got no problems with it.
Let's not forget that Brook had zero chances to test the limits of his ability. When his crew died, he died himself. And seeing that his soul returned from Hades it's not like he had a solid understanding of his powers back then. Otherwise he probably never would have returned to his body one year late.
Actually Brook returned to his body a year late because he couldn't find his body from within the Florian Triangle, not due to a lack of understanding. Besides, you can't really "test" an ability like that since it wasn't active until he actually died anyway.
And later on he was alone for the most part. It's not that people around kept constantly dying. There was only that one dude that perished under the sunlight and giving the shock of that experience plus losing your shadow might have been too much for him to consider how his ability works.
Again, I'm not saying that it has to work, but with all we've got so far I wouldn't rule it out. Though I really hope that he will never develop that power because then, Oda would probably develop the balls to kill off major characters only to have them revived DB-style by Brook. Do not want!
That's my main reason for it being very very unlikely. If Brook were capable of reviving, that'd be the very definition of overpowered. And while we've seen a lot of seemingly unbeatable stuff, we have also seen that there are limits.
I see. Which means I win. ;P
I'd just rather not answer that question since it'd lead into a whole morality issue on whether you'd want to bring back people to live or let them rest in peace.
It's nothing personal, so okay you can win this one.
Oh I know, I just figured I'd get you to say it so that the on-topic discussion would continue.
! I hate you…:ninja:
! No you're okay…
! I hate you…:ninja:
! Last edited by brennen.exe : November 26th, 2008 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Do my biddings mortal, and find the answer I was too lazy to look up myself~!! -
Actually Brook returned to his body a year late because he couldn't find his body from within the Florian Triangle, not due to a lack of understanding. Besides, you can't really "test" an ability like that since it wasn't active until he actually died anyway.
Actually the both of us are right. He returned to his body after a year because of the thick mist. But that he had to return to his body after being on his way to Hades means, that he learned during this journey of his soul how to act with it. Otherwise he could have returned to his body when he was only a couple of meters away but he didn't. I don't see no other reason for that besides lack of comprehension.
That's my main reason for it being very very unlikely. If Brook were capable of reviving, that'd be the very definition of overpowered. And while we've seen a lot of seemingly unbeatable stuff, we have also seen that there are limits.
I'd just rather not answer that question since it'd lead into a whole morality issue on whether you'd want to bring back people to live or let them rest in peace.
Oh, I actually didn't have any interest either to take it to a extended metaphysic discussion here. I'm just satisfied with proving the point that it's not necessarily an evil thing like it was the case with Hogback and Moria.
In other words…
It's nothing personal, so okay you can win this one.
…I was pwning your rear end!!! ZEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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! I hate you…:ninja:
! No you're okay…
! I hate you…:ninja:
! Last edited by brennen.exe : November 26th, 2008 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Do my biddings mortal, and find the answer I was too lazy to look up myself~!!Reason: Lies!!
All part of the facade, all part of the facade.
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Interesting idea Shaman monk. The Pied Piper of the Dead, Brook. Just not sure about it though.
As for Knuckles, I think that Brook can get stronger….just not sure how he would do it.
why say he will if even you cant comprehend how, the music thing in my opinion is lame as a weapon, evolving his fruit would be cool but seems unlikely due to wats been said bout it in the manga sofar, seriously y say its gona happen when u hav absolutly nothing/even a theory baking it
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@Knuckles:
why say he will if even you cant comprehend how, the music thing in my opinion is lame as a weapon, evolving his fruit would be cool but seems unlikely due to wats been said bout it in the manga sofar, seriously y say its gona happen when u hav absolutly nothing/even a theory baking it
Because this is a shonen manga.. all of the protagonists will allways become stronger as the story progresses.
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Because this is a shonen manga.. all of the protagonists will allways become stronger as the story progresses.
fairplay, just seems wrong moraly
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@Knuckles:
why say he will if even you cant comprehend how, the music thing in my opinion is lame as a weapon, evolving his fruit would be cool but seems unlikely due to wats been said bout it in the manga sofar, seriously y say its gona happen when u hav absolutly nothing/even a theory baking it
What? I think it's obvious that ALL of the crew will get stronger but at this point we don't know how. Unlike Franky or Zoro, Brook can't upgrade himself with technology or make himself stronger by lifting weights. Brook said to Ryuuma that he became stronger in the years that he was away from Thriller Bark but we don't know how he does it since he is a skeleton, devoid of muscle tissue or any soft organs for that matter.
Also, you take what I said a bit too far. I said I don't know how he would do it, not that I can't comprehend(meaning understand) it. Plus, as I and Gorlom said, they're just going to get stronger. No ifs ands or buts about it.
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This post is deleted!
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What? I think it's obvious that ALL of the crew will get stronger but at this point we don't know how. Unlike Franky or Zoro, Brook can't upgrade himself with technology or make himself stronger by lifting weights. Brook said to Ryuuma that he became stronger in the years that he was away from Thriller Bark but we don't know how he does it since he is a skeleton, devoid of muscle tissue or any soft organs for that matter.
Also, you take what I said a bit too far. I said I don't know how he would do it, not that I can't comprehend(meaning understand) it. Plus, as I and Gorlom said, they're just going to get stronger. No ifs ands or buts about it.
Who said that "stronger" has to refer to physical aspects? Perhaps it is battle experience, or mind training (like any form of fighting, mental preparation is very important as well)
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Who said it didn't? However what I was saying kind of incorporated all of that into it. What is battle experience? Surely, Brook has a lot of that. There is something more though. When Zoro learned what the meaning of breath of all things truly was, he didn't use brute force to cut steel. He got his mind to a point where he understood how it worked, and with his new understanding created a technique to use it. The "mind training".
When I gave the examples of the other's training and etc. it was more for reference of what they could do to become stronger. Right now, we don't really know what Brook can do or will do, but we know that somehow, someway it will be so. But I think the bottom line of all of this is that it won't be from the power of his Devil Fruit. I think we got a little off base.
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I know Vanessa is gonna hate me for this because what I'm going to say is again connected to Gill Bastar somehow and going by my previous point in this thread again something will oppose her thoughts. But I'll post it anyways.^^
I still think that Brooks best potential growth in strenght is by improving his DF powers. I mean he had about 50 years time to practice his swordsman skills. If he receives a huge boost now with the Strawhats during a short time while he couldn't get it done in decades it would be somehow strange. And ever since Croc said that you could improve DF abilities AND Luffy having achieved exactly that with the Gears I think it's not too much to expect for Brook to do the same. Ok, so how could improving his DF power work?
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For one I already mentioned previously that extending his revival ability to other people could be a possibility. I still think it's an option but right now I wouldn't find it a huge power up in a fight. The only thing it could do is revive dead mates like that beans did in Dragonball. The downpart of that is that there's the danger of Chopper becoming useless. So while I think it's possible it's not the most likely guess.
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Another guess would be that he could revive himself multiple times. As I said before (don't know if it was in this thread) he ate the "Revival Fruit" not the "Once in a lifetime revival Fruit". So far Brook himself said that he has only a second life and I assume that to be correct. However has he ever tested if he could die and revive himself a second time? I mean, it could be only an assumption that in the end will be wrong. However, considering that he's a living skeleton and thus doesn't suffer many fatal injuries like normal people (I mean he took a stab through his eye from Ryuma) I don't expect him to die in the first place. So there's no need for a second revival. Still a very distant possibility IMO.
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Now for a totally different and new guess. He could possess other people. When he died his sould (the little cloud) traveled around the Florian Triangle for one year. In other words his body remained dead for a year until the soul re-entered it. This means that during that year the DF ability was active inside the soul/cloud and not inside the body. So actually it's the soul/cloud that's a live and not the body.
So perhaps and I really mean perhaps it could be a property of Brook's ability that he could actually put his soul into any body he wants (just like Moria's shadows worked). If that's possible then the only reason why he didn't do so far is because he never thought of it. And perhaps he could not enter only dead but also living bodies. I mean isn't that exactly what Oda did in Wanted. He had Wild Joes soul enter Gill Bastars body against his will. Wouldn't that be an actually useful improvement of Brooks DF ability for fighting purposes? Just thinking out loud.
Ok, I'm pretty much aware that this goes far beyond the simple point of revival. In fact, it doesn't even have much to do with revival if used that way. But then again this entire soul-cloud matter just reminded me of Wild Joe so I had to share it here. And while I don't think that we'll see any of the three ideas I suggest above I still think that Brook improving his DF ability is one of the two ways (the other one is music as a weapon) to go. Just the swordman skills would be too much like Zoro.
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Bad Ivotas bad!
I'll edit this again to respond to your post; it's too early for me to have a discussion right now.
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I mean he had about 50 years time to practice his swordsman skills. If he receives a huge boost now with the Strawhats during a short time while he couldn't get it done in decades it would be somehow strange.
Vanessa has a good way of screwing with peoples head, so I will leave that much to her. I thought the soul possession had been brought up before, and it could be interesting, but I would expect Oda to do something (if at all) completely off the wall and ridiculous. Anyways, all I really wanted to say was that I doubt Brook practiced his sword for 50 years. From what it seems, he moped and emo'd for 45 years and then had his shadow stolen. He does say that he trained for five years after that so that he could defeat Ryuuma, but the point is we know from watching Luffy's journey that their real strength always grows during fights and after fights. I mean take Luffy as an example. We saw him as a child claiming that he had been training so hard that his punch was as powerful as a pistol. Ten years later after TONS of training we see about how strong and fast he is when fighting Kuro. Now look at him. He's like 50x stronger in less than a years time due to battles. I'm certain Brook will grow accordingly to their battles as well.
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Valid arguments and I don't disagree about the growing stronger through voyage point. However I find it hard to swallow that a skilled swordfighter didn't train his skills for 45 years. I mean he didn't have nothing else to do. Ok, he's not the kind of guy to meditate and find his inner peace, but he's the guy who promised his friends (who died because they were to week) to meet up with Laboon. How is he gonna achieve that goal if he doesn't grow stronger?
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Valid arguments and I don't disagree about the growing stronger through voyage point. However I find it hard to swallow that a skilled swordfighter didn't train his skills for 45 years. I mean he didn't have nothing else to do. Ok, he's not the kind of guy to meditate and find his inner peace, but he's the guy who promised his friends (who died because they were to week) to meet up with Laboon. How is he gonna achieve that goal if he doesn't grow stronger?
I understand your reasoning, but this is Brook we are talking about:
[10 years after leaving Twin Cape]
[The Florian Triangle]<<Brook: I've removed my undergarments!!
Oh dear me!!
I'm ever so ashamed!!!
Or perhaps I'm not!!
I've been alone!! For 10 years!! Yohohohoho!
This is so FUN! This is so FUN! (hey)(c'mon)
It's even FUN being aloooone! (hullo there!)
45 degrees!!<<Brook: Look, look!!
45 degrees!!
Look! Someone! Anyone!!
Oh, wait! I'm alone.
Yohohohoho!! -
Yeah, I know that. But still even with Brook it is tough to swallow for me that he didn't do anything besides skull joking the entire time. Even if he wouldn't have had any promise to keep it'd be tough to swallow for me. But with the promise I see no way of him not working out. Having a silly personality or not, Brook has displayed that he holds the promise in high regards, so he should understand that he would have to become stronger to keep his promise. Keeping serious on this matter is also part of his regular silly character.
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Originally Posted by Ivotas
I mean he had about 50 years time to practice his swordsman skills. If he receives a huge boost now with the Strawhats during a short time while he couldn't get it done in decades it would be somehow strangeYeah, I know that. But still even with Brook it is tough to swallow for me that he didn't do anything besides skull joking the entire time. Even if he wouldn't have had any promise to keep it'd be tough to swallow for me. But with the promise I see no way of him not working out. Having a silly personality or not, Brook has displayed that he holds the promise in high regards, so he should understand that he would have to become stronger to keep his promise. Keeping serious on this matter is also part of his regular silly character.
This is completely not being fair to Brook. The man is a skeleton. I know some ppl may have a stigma or preconception of a living skeleton being able to kill you but think about it, it's a damn skeleton. The man has no flesh not to mention muscles. All of his new fighting skills now revolve around speed. When you look at him he has more of a disadvantage compared to an average human. I mean we don't know how Brook will handle having his bones taken apart from a joint to joint level but that can be a issue.
I'm sure Brook was quite the capable fighter while he was alive and he probably was doing w/e training possible with his new skeleton body in those 50 years and then more so in the last couple of years trying to reclaim his shadow from Ryuuma but there's only so much he could do obviously.
And it's not just skull jokes another thing I think ppl might not believe or overlook to take as a joke but to me Brook is insane, in an old man(long life) type of way. The trauma of losing his captain, then crew, then him dying, then his soul searching for his body for years, then finding his body as a skeleton, then losing being lost in the FT, then losing his shadow, and not being able to defeat the person who took it WILL drive a person off the edge of sanity. It's not gonna be focused on much and probably will only be evident in a humorous manner but Brook is insane.
Also who knows swordsmanship wise or other abilities he may still be hiding some secret techniques we'll only see when the SHs meet another strong enemy in a BW/CP9 type situation.
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I don't think he's insane at all. I've thought about it when his past was shown then realized that I seriously underestimated how he valued his promise to Laboon. Is he damaged?…definitely but he coped with it using his promise to Laboon just like how Robin tried to find the Rio Poneglyph for the scholars on Ohara.
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Hey, back to the topic of the devil fruit, Has Oda himself said that you can only be reborn once? Or that when you revive, you can't die again?
For some reason I can't remember anything else but he came back once. -
Hey, back to the topic of the devil fruit, Has Oda himself said that you can only be reborn once? Or that when you revive, you can't die again?
For some reason I can't remember anything else but he came back once.Oda and nobody in the manga have spoken on it other than assuming that you can only revive once. I'm not sure on it but if Brook can revive himself an unlimited amount of times the DF might as well have been named the immortal fruit. If there's a certain number well then it is up in the air and only Oda knows.
It kinda leads me to another question exactly how would one go about killing the current Brook? He has no brain or heart or any other vital organs needed to live. Seeing as he lacks flesh and all that he has no nervous system so I kinda question if he even feels pain. Would breaking his bones really work? Is life completely dependent on how much calcium he "consumes"? The way he is now I'm not sure breaking him apart would necessarily kill him, it may have to do with specifically damaging his soul(haki maybe?). Otherwise you could say he's immortal in a sense now. Dude may not need anything average humans need to live (food, air, water, etc.) Every time he's shown doing those things he either makes a joke about lacking the body part necessary to do it or the food he eats just falls to the floor lol(off screen)…......
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I know Dr. Chopper (and thus Prof. Oda) would agree with me because this is exactly what he hoped for revival of the dead to be like.
Just because Oda wrote a (very young, very naive, albeit well-meaning) character daydreaming about being able to revive the dead so nobody would be sad anymore doesn't mean he believes it himself. Writers CAN write characters holding opinions other than their own.
Also, if you would define such a revival of the death to be a bad thing then practically everybody in Dragonball who used the balls to revive deceised characters would be on the same low level as Hogback and Moria. That's why I think we can't generalize it here.
Oda didn't write Dragonball. Morality in his story has squat to do with a cheesy plot device in another series.
True not, all abilities follow that pattern but as long as it isn't categorically ruled out it is still a valid guess that the ability can get extended to multiple persons.
"The Yomi Yomi fruit allows you to return. That is, it gives a normal human the promise of two lives."
Chapter 443, page 6.
- For one I already mentioned previously that extending his revival ability to other people could be a possibility. I still think it's an option but right now I wouldn't find it a huge power up in a fight. The only thing it could do is revive dead mates like that beans did in Dragonball. The downpart of that is that there's the danger of Chopper becoming useless.
Hehe. No, the downpart of that would be that if the threat of death no longer exists (nevermind that Oda's storytelling style does not so far include killing off present-day characters - the people IN the story don't know that), the adventure is dead.
"Oh look, a new dangerous enemy doing something horrible. We better fight him. I guess we might die, but eh. No big deal."
Would Luffy really want to go on an adventure like that? I dunno about you guys, but I wouldn't want to read it. ;)
This is also why Brook is not unkillable or able to just endlessly grab bodies forever or any other theory fans are throwing out there. There is no way in the world Oda would do something that cheap and lame.
@Zik:
And it's not just skull jokes another thing I think ppl might not believe or overlook to take as a joke but to me Brook is insane, in an old man(long life) type of way. The trauma of losing his captain, then crew, then him dying, then his soul searching for his body for years, then finding his body as a skeleton, then losing being lost in the FT, then losing his shadow, and not being able to defeat the person who took it WILL drive a person off the edge of sanity. It's not gonna be focused on much and probably will only be evident in a humorous manner but Brook is insane.
Agreed. He's clearly not so insane that he can't function, or else he wouldn't be able to manage being on a pirate ship. But the more I look at the chapters he's been in and the way he acts, he's definitely…off. Or at least most of the time.
It's also worth noting that the "skull jokes" may not be so silly as they seem, since he's also had several panels of internal monologue completely losing his cool over the fact that he's even lost most of himself. Someone pointed out to me that this went along pretty well with Yorki trying to pretend things were fine in the flashback, and I think they made a pretty good point.
One Piece isn't the kind of story to really dwell on this, so I don't expect it to ever be mentioned. He's just going to be his wacky-then-serious-then-wacky self and do socially inappropriate things and occasionally get a little distracted/disoriented, like he has thus far. And since I think he's awesome I can live with Oda handling it like that.
@Zik:
Seeing as he lacks flesh and all that he has no nervous system so I kinda question if he even feels pain.
Um, yes? I'm not sure how you could miss it, since Oda went out of his way to contrast the zombies not feeling pain with the flashback about "the pain proves you're alive" and Brook very clearly being in pain more than once, including when he scared himself in the mirror and fell over and then had the flashback.
Next you guys will be telling me he doesn't breathe, when we've very clearly seen him trying to catch his breath, or that time he went overboard and was coughing up water from lungs that don't exist. (Plus, again, if he were immune to drowning that would be cheap and lame. DFs have a very important weakness that's as much a part of how neat they are as the fact that they give powers in the first place. It's always power with a price. And for people saying his "power" is weak - Brook got to come back from DEATH to finish what he left unfinished, that's nothing to sneeze at.)
He doesn't have eyes and he can see, he doesn't have a tongue or throat and he can talk. He has no stomach, and he can eat and drink and feel hunger. I don't think one can really question that Oda intends this character to be, though he doesn't look like it, a living human being (with nifty abilities like being light). He just wanted a character that looked like a skeleton; the Yomi Yomi no Mi was a plot device.
@Zik:
The way he is now I'm not sure breaking him apart would necessarily kill him
If this was the case, Ryuuma nearly beating him to (a second) death would have gone differently, don't you think? Being sliced up and having huge chunks of his bones gouged out wasn't something he just shrugged off. Or at least no more than any other fighter in OP can manage to get their second wind and get back on their feet sometimes. (He still almost passed out once or twice later in the Oz fight. Meanwhile, the zombies, who were actually dead and thus didn't feel pain, they could get maimed or have huge holes in them or anything else and they didn't feel a thing.)
Anyway. I don't think we're going to see any black magic necromancer soul-stealing immortality powers from Brook, or at least I'll be disappointed with Oda for the first time ever if that's where it goes. His whole character is about life, about honoring the dead (contrast Moria's "I'll have zombie friends so I never have to mourn anyone again" with Brook just wanting his friends' bones to rest in peace). Even sunlight became an important theme in his intro story. I know everybody expects it because that's the kind of cliche thing any other writer would do with a skeleton character, but Brook's not undead. He came back to life (even though he makes jokes that he's dead), his body's just a lot worse for wear. And Oda's too awesome to be cliche.
Plus it'd be really messy character design to suddenly tack ANOTHER powerset onto the guy. He already has his advantages from being a skeleton - Oda began to develop him as a musician when he introduced the sleep song that knocked out the fish riders. It would be downright bizarre to have him be a fencer with (insert cliche undead powers here)…oh, and one music-based attack. Oda keeps everyone's powers and skillsets along a pretty solid theme.
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Agreed. He's clearly not so insane that he can't function, or else he wouldn't be able to manage being on a pirate ship. But the more I look at the chapters he's been in and the way he acts, he's definitely…off. Or at least most of the time.
Yea for everybody else I'm not talkin in the sense of insane and needs to be committed. Just that he definitely off and everything he does or says is just a wacky moment of comedic relief. Maybe I should've used crazy but that word is always used so loosely. In real life Brook would need psychiatry and probably a shrink lol and I actually like Brook that much more cuz of that it gives his character a lot of depth. But yea I doubt this will ever be focused on in the manga.
Um, yes? I'm not sure how you could miss it, since Oda went out of his way to contrast the zombies not feeling pain with the flashback about "the pain proves you're alive" and Brook very clearly being in pain more than once, including when he scared himself in the mirror and fell over and then had the flashback.
Next you guys will be telling me he doesn't breathe, when we've very clearly seen him trying to catch his breath, or that time he went overboard and was coughing up water from lungs that don't exist.
Well seeing as you agreed with him being off/insane/very crazy work with me. It could be the reason he becomes out of "breath", coughing up water when drowning is cuz he instinctivly thinks this is how I should react. Now I know he doesn't have a brain so how can he think but it may all revolve around the DF possibly and about the whole drowning thing it could just be all DF users get this sense of danger or impending death when they are completey submerged in water thus triggering the thought for Brook that he should be struggling to stay above water. If not then he should just sink to the bottom.
I see Oda explainnig this with a "I think therefore I am" logic with Brook. He believes himself to be still be a regular human in a sense so at a base level he has all of the pros and cons of a human until he makes a skull joke or realizes it in some activity. So aslong as Brook thinks this is how he should react he will.
The whole zombie thing and pain just proves he's not a zombie. Pain or lack of it doesn't indicate if you are alive or not
Then again this could be Oda just using the typical unexplainable/never explained feat by a cartoon that shouldn't be able to do what it is doing. It runs rampant in Looney Toons for example and many other cartoons. When you get down to it Brook is not a bone man but a revival man so just about everything he does he shouldn't be able to do. So yea ya right Oda just wanted a skelton for nakama.
He doesn't have eyes and he can see, he doesn't have a tongue or throat and he can talk. He has no stomach, and he can eat and drink and feel hunger. I don't think one can really question that Oda intends this character to be, though he doesn't look like it, a living human being (with nifty abilities like being light). He just wanted a character that looked like a skeleton; the Yomi Yomi no Mi was a plot device.
I know that but he could've easily went with a bone bone fruit as I've mentioned before. Typical OP fanfic DF from what I remember.
If this was the case, Ryuuma nearly beating him to (a second) death would have gone differently, don't you think? Being sliced up and having huge chunks of his bones gouged out wasn't something he just shrugged off. Or at least no more than any other fighter in OP can manage to get their second wind and get back on their feet sometimes.
I don't recall his bones being gouged out, hard task to do with a katana. I get ehat you're saying but it could just be a mind over matter thing like I said before after realizing he currently couldn't defeat Ryuuma.
But yea maybe it's something silly I shouldn't be questioning that's common in cartoons thats obviously just a fictional thing or maybe I just thought this over too much or maybe I'm right lol….........
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@Zik:
This is completely not being fair to Brook. The man is a skeleton. I know some ppl may have a stigma or preconception of a living skeleton being able to kill you but think about it, it's a damn skeleton. The man has no flesh not to mention muscles. All of his new fighting skills now revolve around speed. When you look at him he has more of a disadvantage compared to an average human. I mean we don't know how Brook will handle having his bones taken apart from a joint to joint level but that can be a issue.
Valid point but then again, we're talking about a living skeleton that can eat, drink and poop. I mean that shouldn't work either for obvious reasons and yet it does. So the lack of muscles shouldn't really count on that matter.
But even if we assume it would, training muscles doesn not mean training swordfighting skills (even though Zoro does that alot). Training the technique can work without it (the breath of all things comes into my mind for instance). Brook could have had such a training in all those 50 years. After all, he said he was training in order to defeat Ryuma. That makes sense because now the superior adversary has a face. But that should just be a more intensive training because of the shadow thing. He should have started training before because if he doesn't get stronger then when he died, he doesn't have any chance to meet Laboon again.
@Mushroom:
Just because Oda wrote a (very young, very naive, albeit well-meaning) character daydreaming about being able to revive the dead so nobody would be sad anymore doesn't mean he believes it himself. Writers CAN write characters holding opinions other than their own.
Authors generally do give their protagonist opinions that reflect their own. At least those which get defended until the end. ;)
Oda didn't write Dragonball. Morality in his story has squat to do with a cheesy plot device in another series.
Actually I just wanted to state that such plot devices have been used in other series so far. And Dragonball was the best example here since it's practically Oda's inspiration for writing manga.
"The Yomi Yomi fruit allows you to return. That is, it gives a normal human the promise of two lives."
I know that. But just as I said, this could be flawed interpretation from Brook's side. How does he know he can only revive once? I wouldn't be surprised if at a later point Brook dies only to be revived again to his own surprise.
Hehe. No, the downpart of that would be that if the threat of death no longer exists (nevermind that Oda's storytelling style does not so far include killing off present-day characters - the people IN the story don't know that), the adventure is dead.
"Oh look, a new dangerous enemy doing something horrible. We better fight him. I guess we might die, but eh. No big deal."
Would Luffy really want to go on an adventure like that? I dunno about you guys, but I wouldn't want to read it. ;)
This is also why Brook is not unkillable or able to just endlessly grab bodies forever or any other theory fans are throwing out there. There is no way in the world Oda would do something that cheap and lame.
Very good point. Nothing more to add to that.
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one question…if brook was dead... then technically he lost his ability? so it did its job once....brought him back, but does he still have the df power or has he been revived but isn´t a "user" any longer???? cause i thought i was stated somewhere, that after a user dies the fruit appears again...? i´m a little bit confused now ^^ i don´t say thats a theory, it´s just a question that came to my mind
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one question…if brook was dead... then technically he lost his ability? so it did its job once....brought him back, but does he still have the df power or has he been revived but isn´t a "user" any longer???? cause i thought i was stated somewhere, that after a user dies the fruit appears again...? i´m a little bit confused now ^^ i don´t say thats a theory, it´s just a question that came to my mind
the power is gone, I believe it was explained it was a one time only thing at some point, but the "hammer curse" stays
and i never heard/read anyware that the fruit comes back when the user dies
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yeah the power is gone so my question is he still a fruit user? cause if not and the power is gone, shouldn´t he be able to swimm again etc?
well wasn´t it stated, that there isn´t the possibility that 2 fruits of the same type exist so just after one dies his power will be available again?