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OFFICIAL 4Kids Dub Discussion Mk. II: Alabasta Disasta
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And yeah, but I don't exactly want to see naked kids… I saw the JP version of one of the Locomon movie (Disney dubbed them, btw... Too... much... frontier... music...) and I was disturbed by the naked characters... especially because they didn't have anything there. :E
Didn't see that one. I just recall the biomerge nudity (though I'm guessing the "blurred" part wasn't in the original @_@ ).
I was so sure Saban would get sued for the talking crotch and the 666 reference.
Hah, VenomMyotismon was awesome (and they left in everyone calling "Lord and Master", which was creepy…). The crotch thing was also a refrence to Mephisto (a demon), I believe.
wonders if anyone gets where I got my name from now
The irony of this statement is the reality of how much of a non-purist I am, so much that the average anime fan is angered by my general support for dubs and my lack of criticism for most. But just for the mere fact that I disagree with you, suddenly I'm a purist. XD
Indeed. I tend to find what's good in dubs that many people seem to hate. :/
And the voice acting… bad? None of them were Sanji-bad, or Usopp-bad... I don't recall any that were even Luffy-bad... >_>
I just remember some of the first season's kids' Digimon sounding really wierd/annoying (in their "Rookie" forms). Everything else seemed fine.
Two keys points you've made. First, you said the dubs you LIKE, that's important because it will affect how you criticize the dub. If you like something, you're more likely to find positive things about the dub, if you don't like it, then you'll find negative things about a dub.
I love OP, but despise the dub, which contradicts that statement.
Edit- I remembered only one bad etit- Myotismon sending Pumpkinmon and Golemmon to the "Dungeon."
I do recall him sending all the ones that failed "back to the Digital World." I wonder now if he actually WAS supposed to be killing them. :/
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I had one of those weird "I instantly thought of this scene" things again. Zoro clapping for Chopper :o
What makes no sense to me is why they feel the need to make edits that aren't violent or offensive or anything. Them moving blocks of completely normal scenes around however they please kind of tells you something.
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@OP:
Two keys points you've made. First, you said the dubs you LIKE, that's important because it will affect how you criticize the dub. If you like something, you're more likely to find positive things about the dub, if you don't like it, then you'll find negative things about a dub.
But you're missing a point…the reason why I like them is because they don't make cuts and hire more well-known, talented, higher paid actors, and overall they keep the release much closer to the original. It's not all about cuts, though. There is a dub for one anime that I like very much that makes 0 cuts, yet the acting is so atrocious that it's unwatchable. Quality is not subjective. If that were true, then when you stay at a hotel and you have terrible service and room they can just say "well, it's just that you don't like this hotel", so you're finding things wrong with it." When you take art classes in college, the teacher will grade your work on your technique and execution, apart from personal preference.
Second, are you comparing OP to similar type anime? OP is filled with outrageous wild takes and add that to it being Japanese dialouge, that makes it more difficult to act on them.
Naruto is about as similar as you can get. Others are a very different kind of show, but that's bull that it makes them harder to act on, because that's what a good writer/director is for. It's obvious that you haven't compared many dubs/subs in the past otherwise you wouldn't be asking these questions.
Compared to most anime I watch, OP is one of the most westernized with the least amount of Japanese knowledge required. I don't expect those to make it unchanged in the dub, they're so infrequent and not usually important anyway.. Shouldn't you be watching the anime for entertainment instead of closely watching it for mistakes?
One Piece is the only anime that is bad enough for me to comment so much on the quality of the dub. I watch the ORIGINAL version purely for entertainment value. I can't watch the dub just to enjoy because it's like watching your dog get mutilated. Fortunately I don't need to watch the dub because I have the original. I'm moving towards a trend of only watching the episodes that will be changed the most out of morbid curiousity. >_<
You can find mistakes in everthing if you look at it closely
We arent talking about mistakes, we're talking about purposeful changes. :P
Uh, that you're that shallow and you'd be upset if they cover up Usopp's manliness. xD
Quote me: "I hope they will put swim trunks on them" :-P
We had this conversation before, I said I would put up proof of them using dialouge and then you'd forget it a week later. Did I call it, or what.
I didn't forget it, I just think that what you posted was pointless. You're saying "look, look I found a few lines they didn't change!" BIG WHOOPIE! XD Fact is that they cut and change so much that just finding some examples where they didn't is grasping for straws. Of course you're going to find examples of points in the story that are the same as the original. If you couldn't, then we must be watching some entirely different anime. And Cowmakaze furthers that point.
Its not because you disagree with me, its because you used to "not like" the dub, but you were fair in your criticism. You used to give credit when they do good, and harsh comments when they do bad. Now every little thing upset you. You never got too upset with a name change before until Trace came along. The REAL irony is you were more fair during the problematic first season, and Ultra-Critical in the more improved later seasons.
You weren't even around until after Arlong Park. :P
No, you're just bullshitting again because I haven't hardly said any criticisms lately at all. You're just basing this entirely off my arguments with you about the dub as a whole. I lost faith in the dub back in the Syrup village arc. It got progressively worse after that, although I totally gave them kudos for doing Chopper's arc fairly well. There hasn't been much to say about Alabasta so far with all of the episodes of filler and nothing really happens, but as I can see from the AUS releases of the episodes where things heat up, they're back to their old tricks again.
Plus they will always have the crappy voices for the main cast, the bad puns, the bad acting, and that there alone contines to make the dub unenjoyable for me. -
Didn't see that one. I just recall the biomerge nudity (though I'm guessing the "blurred" part wasn't in the original @_@ ).
Hah, VenomMyotismon was awesome (and they left in everyone calling "Lord and Master", which was creepy…). The crotch thing was also a refrence to Mephisto (a demon), I believe.
wonders if anyone gets where I got my name from now
I just remember some of the first season's kids' Digimon sounding really wierd/annoying (in their "Rookie" forms). Everything else seemed fine.
In the original, there was just… two legs and nothing between. o_O Except for Rika, who had a little blur...
Oh, so that's what the crotch thing was... I thought the "666 reference" was Beelzemon's pentogram in my avatar... XD
Myoti... Myotismon! I knew it was close, but I didn't think it could have been... :E
I found them a tad annoying, but they're rookies! They're child-like! :E I like Guilmon's voice for some reason... My MSN thing is guilmon, and someone weird MSNMed me and err- wanted to cyber. When I was 12 or so.[/toomuchinfo]
I barely remember the Digimon bg music. I remember the Theme and the Digivolve theme.
I loved the voices in that show. Etemon was a god.They used Etemon's voice for Locomon… Which was weird... "I'm going to ruuun... and keeep on ruuunin'!" ...;_;
Edit- I remembered only one bad etit- Myotismon sending Pumpkinmon and Golemmon to the "Dungeon."
I wonder why they would edit that… They kept Wizardmon, Whamon, Pixiemon, and Sabreleomon... maybe more... >_>
But it was made up with the beautiful death of Wizardmon and Gatomons sadness. I loved that show so much. I had everyepisode on tape.
I only have random episodes recorded… I taped the desert episodes, some Myotismon ones, and the Dark Master ones...
About the scene with Usopps Pirates…they cut out the tears. The tears. Yeah...
Oh, so they do extract emotion from One Piece. XD
Oh, and it's not Usopp Pirates! It's the Veggie Pirates! They're good for you! >_o
EDIT: Say, was there any reason to change a shovel, baseball bat, and a pan to a bright toy shovel, a bright… pot thing, and a flourescent green pan? >_>
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EDIT: Say, was there any reason to change a shovel, baseball bat, and a pan to a bright toy shovel, a bright… pot thing, and a flourescent green pan? >_>
Because "we to think about the children". :O
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I found them a tad annoying, but they're rookies! They're child-like! :E I like Guilmon's voice for some reason…
Of course you like Guilmon's voice! It's Steven Jay Blum! :P
On the subject of Digimon, it was this show that allowed me to forgive Saban for screwing up DBZ (well, that and FUNimation's Ultimate Uncut DVDs). I actually hate 4Kids now more than I ever hated Saban.
When most anime gets dubbed into English, you get the obligatory corny, tossed-in jokes. Digimon was no exception, but the cheese factor shot through the roof when Jeff Nimoy (Tentomon's voice actor) was given the job of writing for the second season (Zero Two). He was even picked up to write the English version of Digimon movie four. Ear-gratingly bad dialogue aside, Digimon was an overall enjoyable dub IMO.
Sure, Digimon had recieved some name changes, but at least most of the characters kept their Japanese family surnames (Daisuke/Davis Motomiya)! Well, if they did go as far as to change a character's surname, they were given an entirely new one that was still Japanese (or in the case of Jenrya Lee/Henry Wong…... Chinese).
Another thing about Saban is that they downplayed death as little as possible. Despite the noteable exception of a dungeon-crazy Myotismon, most of the time that death came up in the storyline, it wasn't sugarcoated or treated as taboo. Strange, when you think about the fact that this is the same Saban that had FUNimation by the groin when it came to all the "another dimension" talk in the first two seasons of Dragonball Z.
Ah yes... Biblical and religious references are what drew me to Digimon! I tried to avoid watching the show at first, because I was afraid of what Saban might have done to it, but then I was blown away when I tuned in to Digimon and they kept in all that 666 stuff! I figured that if they didn't cancel this show for being too ballsy for it's own good, then they'd have themselves a new viewer! Oh, and as someone mentioned before me, Beelzemon's pentagram was WAAAAAY high on the WTF-ometer!
I wonder why the Christian community decided to label POKEMON, of all things, "Satanic?!"
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@OP:
The dub has allowed these scenes unedited that no other cartoon has allowed before. Two people getting shot, two people have lost limbs, kids getting beat on, excessive sword play–
The Dragonball and DBZ dubs had all these things.
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EDIT: Say, was there any reason to change a shovel, baseball bat, and a pan to a bright toy shovel, a bright… pot thing, and a flourescent green pan? >_>
To make them look more… Toyetic. Same reason why they paint the guns green.
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Comparison for Episode 72 (Episode 104) EN: Zero
JP: Luffy VS Vivi! A Tearful Vow for Nakama!* Not going to be mentioning the Arabasta map not appearing anymore
Digital Edit:
Red marks from Zoro's face after being hit by a pillow are erased.Same with Chopper - when he gets hit and when he turns around to look at Sanji.
Dialogue Edit:
Sanji wanted Vivi to sleep with him, but in the dub he said he switched beds because of Usopp's cooties.Nami's anger mark erased. (Image)
Digital Edit:
When Sanji joins the fight, red marks are gone.And Vivi, twice. Hey 4Kids, it's not blood! o__o;
Dialogue Edit:
Luffy's "it's a mystery hole!" not mentioned.While Luffy says "meat…" while sleeping, it is replaced by a bunch of garbled noises (no words, something garbled like bblabgahbaba).
Digital Edit:
"Casino" erased in two shots. (Image)The same Miss Merrychristmas and Miss Doublefinger edits. (link to comp. #71)
Robin gets the same edit too but she gets more clothing on her. (Image)
Same Mr. 1 edits.
Clip Edit:
It's strange, but I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with the speed the screen is moving when Miss Allsunday walks down the stairs. Baroque Works at the table gets unfocused and moves closer, but it seems that it's moving differently so you can't see the chair Crocodile sits in? *I might get a clip of this, unless it's just meDigital Edit:
A closer look at Miss Allsunday's edit.Clip Edit:
Crocodile lighting up a cigar originally occurs before a shot of the golden bananawani on Rain Dinners, and is now taken out.Audio Edit:
Some growing has been added to the sound the bananawani makes.Clip Edit:
After the bananawani swims away, the camera zooming out to view a bunch of cigars (and Crocodile putting one out) doesn't happen.Digital Edit:
The dish is gone from this shot. (Image)Mistake:
The dish is NOT erased while Crocodile explains his plan (before Baroque Works reads the paper).Digital Edit:
Miss Doublefinger's cigarette holder is erased.Mistake:
But… it isn't erased when the screen moves from right to left while Crocodile continues to explain Operation Utopia. She got her usual edit in that shot, though.Dialogue Edit:
Mr. 3 appears - it's the first time we clearly hear his voice since Little Garden never existed. He has become a comedian type of man, making jokes as soon as his mouth is opened, so this edit will not be mentioned again.Mr. 3 requests a second chance (since he failed in Little Garden). He also confessed that he allowed the Straw Hats to escape, which made Crocodile break the handle of his cup. In the dub, Mr. 3 drives Crocodile so mad with his jokes.
Coming from Crocodile's mouth, Mr. 3 was supposedly sent to take out the Straw Hats when they left Roguetown, but this isn't possible.
Dialogue Edit / Clip Edit:
In the dub, Mr. 3 said he set a trap for them in Nanohana (cue in an inserted shot of Carue pointing at Mr. 3's boat) but they had spotted him and escaped.Dialogue Edit:
Talk about the Den Den Mushi (when Sanji posed as Mr. 3 on the phone and talked to Crocodile in Little Garden) was not present.Clip Edit:
When Crocodile reaches his limit (it is at this point when Mr. 3 says that he never used the Den Den Mushi) a flashback of Sanji talking to him on the phone is cut out.Some mixing up with the next scenes right after. In the original, Crocodile lights up a cigar - this is a side shot of him. In the dub, the five agents at the table give a frightened look, and then there was that a side shot (minus lighting up the cigar) of Crocodile.
Digital Edit:
Already know this, but his cigar is erased.Dialogue Edit:
So in the dub, Mr. 3 tries to justify his failure by telling him that Miss Wednesday was actually Vivi. In the original he tells Crocodile that the information given to him was incorrect, since there were actually more people accompanying Vivi.Digital Edit:
When Crocodile grabs Mr. 3, his hand has been edited so it looks like he is grabbing Mr. 3's shoulder (or his coat). (Image)Clip Edit:
In the dub as the above is occuring, the camera is zooming in when it was originally still.Mr. 3 struggling during the above is cut out.
A little little part before the scene changes is cut out, it's when Mr. 3 looks like he's nearly dead from the choke.
// Not really an edit … just a note. Mr. 3 calls the Bananawani (wani - crocodile/alligator) a Bananagator.
As Mr. 3 gets eaten, Crocodile returning to the table is cut out.
// Den Den Mushi = Transponder Snail, but you knew that already, ne?
When everyone gets up to leave, Crocodile lighting another cigar while we see Mr. 3's cape drifting in the tank is cut out.
Digital Edit:
Miss Doublefinger's cigarette holder gone. (Image)Clip Edit:
Before returning to the Straw Hats, the shot with the bottom half of Crocodile's face while he smokes is cut out.Vivi slightly raises her hand (scene changes before she does) before Luffy tells her that she doesn't want anyone to die or get hurt. Luffy had already said that she's better off to go on her own - they can't do anything when they reach Katorea unless they defeat Crocodile.
A distant shot of the entire crew as Luffy talks (before there is a close up of him) is cut out.
When Luffy leaps he punches Luffy, but this is taken out. He hits her offscreen.
In the dub after this occurs though (after a shot of Usopp and Sanji) Luffy yells out. This yelling out part originally occured before the shot of Usopp and Sanji, right after he knocks Vivi down.
Digital Edit:
When Luffy yells, Vivi is erased.Clip Edit:
A shot of Sanji and Nami is repeated right after the yell.Vivi getting up from the ground is cut out.
Vivi raising her fist (scene changes before she does), and a close up shot of her fist afterwards is cut out.
Some more right after. Vivi's flurry of slaps and punches on Luffy, her flashbacks of Toto and Igaram, Luffy stopping her, all of this.
So Vivi fighting back was gone. Two edits up with Vivi's fist and all, after that there are inserted shots of the straw hats watching. They were from earlier on. Then there's one where Zoro (beside Nami) talks to Vivi, and I have no idea which scene or episode that came from. Right after there's Vivi with her eyes closed, after Luffy stops her fists. This is all very confusing to tell in words o.o/
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Dialogue Edit:
Sanji wanted Vivi to sleep with him, but in the dub he said he switched beds because of Usopp's cooties.lol! OK, I understand that they are targeting this show towards small children, but do they think these pirates ARE small children?
And Vivi, twice. Hey 4Kids, it's not blood! o__o;
No, it's a Japanese anime thing, and they don't want people to know that One Piece is Japanese.
Dialogue Edit:
Luffy's "it's a mystery hole!" not mentioned.Another suspicious moment where I wonder if 4kids reads the OOC thread. XD
Coming from Crocodile's mouth, Mr. 3 was supposedly sent to take out the Straw Hats when they left Roguetown, but this isn't possible.
This is probably the worst absent-minded screw up they've made yet (as opposed to deliberate screw-ups)
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Because "we to think about the children". :O
…:E
Of course you like Guilmon's voice! It's Steven Jay Blum! :P
Yay!
On the subject of Digimon, it was this show that allowed me to forgive Saban for screwing up DBZ (well, that and FUNimation's Ultimate Uncut DVDs). I actually hate 4Kids now more than I ever hated Saban.
I do, too… Well, I never hated Saban...
When most anime gets dubbed into English, you get the obligatory corny, tossed-in jokes.
Well, it's not like JP anime is pun/joke-free… Maybe dubbers add in some more, but meh. XD
Digimon was no exception, but the cheese factor shot through the roof when Jeff Nimoy (Tentomon's voice actor) was given the job of writing for the second season (Zero Two). He was even picked up to write the English version of Digimon movie four. Ear-gratingly bad dialogue aside, Digimon was an overall enjoyable dub IMO.
…O_O finds new hatred of Tentomon
Little girl: I WANNA BE A NURSE~ :3
Malomyotismon: NOOO!!! D:Another thing about Saban is that they downplayed death as little as possible. Despite the noteable exception of a dungeon-crazy Myotismon, most of the time that death came up in the storyline, it wasn't sugarcoated or treated as taboo. Strange, when you think about the fact that this is the same Saban that had FUNimation by the groin when it came to all the "another dimension" talk in the first two seasons of Dragonball Z.
Interesting… o_O
Ah yes… Biblical and religious references are what drew me to Digimon! I tried to avoid watching the show at first, because I was afraid of what Saban might have done to it, but then I was blown away when I tuned in to Digimon and they kept in all that 666 stuff! I figured that if they didn't cancel this show for being too ballsy for it's own good, then they'd have themselves a new viewer! Oh, and as someone mentioned before me, Beelzemon's pentagram was WAAAAAY high on the WTF-ometer!
…o_O Because of Biblical and religious references?
I wonder why the Christian community decided to label POKEMON, of all things, "Satanic?!"
They were desperate to blame something wrong with their kids on the newest popular thing. D: Right now it's the violent video games parents ignorantly let their little kids play…
To make them look more… Toyetic. Same reason why they paint the guns green.
Weapons are toys… Yes... @_@
But baseball bat -> ...Pot thing? WTF. D:
Sanji wanted Vivi to sleep with him, but in the dub he said he switched beds because of Usopp's cooties.
Funny, I'd've thought Usopp would be te one afraid of cooties…
While Luffy says "meat…" while sleeping, it is replaced by a bunch of garbled noises (no words, something garbled like bblabgahbaba).
Trying to snore? :E
Coming from Crocodile's mouth, Mr. 3 was supposedly sent to take out the Straw Hats when they left Roguetown, but this isn't possible.
Actually, considering Luffy and crew never went into Laboon, Miss Wednesday and Mr. 9 would never have seen them, and yet "Misty" Peak people knew they were coming… Okay, this doesn't make sense either, but it kind of sheds light on how they knew Luffy and crew were coming... >_>
So in the dub, Mr. 3 tries to justify his failure by telling him that Miss Wednesday was actually Vivi.
I think Crocodile already knew that… >_>
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…o_O Because of Biblical and religious references?
Yeah, pretty much. I was so shocked Saban kept them in I couldn't stop watching! Not to mention that Digimon rocks!
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I wonder why the soccer moms decided to label POKEMON, of all things, "Satanic?!"
I fixed the typo for you.
Anyways, let me tell you now: Digimon is what first got me interested in anime. Not the subbed version, but the dubbed version. Sure, I only saw 3/4s of 02 up until the end, but it was great. And, burn me alive if you will, but the music fit the scene a majority of the time.
Last but not least, fish is good.
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Dialogue Edit:
Sanji wanted Vivi to sleep with him, but in the dub he said he switched beds because of Usopp's cooties.Okay, so for those of you who don't know, cooties are real. You might recognize them by their more proper name…Head Lice. So Usopp has head lice, yet he doesn't ask Chopper to do something about it...Well go figure.
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Yay! I remembered!
And yes. I can't believe people complained about it! Besides the plain intro (Yay! Changing "Digivolve into Ultimate" to "Armor… Digivolve" to "Digi... Modify" >_>), they kept a lot in... kanji, many of the names..
As far as Armor Digivolve goes… they only really changed it from "Armor Shinka"
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Wow. Mr. 3's return sucked, putting it nicely. That "choking" scene aleast could have been done like the Mrs. Monday "choking" Zoro. Luffy vs. ViVi scene also sucked; did they edit out Vivi in the very last shot? Saddens me more to know that Mr. Prince is coming up, and that Prince and Mr. 3 will have a whole sceen together.
Screw 4kids
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Wow, Luffy and Vivi argument, can you say fuck up?
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Wow, Luffy and Vivi argument, can you say fuck up?
Vivi "We-have-to-stop-Crocodile-or-everybody-will-get-hurt. And-I-do-not-talk-like-a-robot"
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I was just thinking of the bathing scene…...what if they don't add swimsuits at all but add a shit load of steam?
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I fixed the typo for you.
Oh, yeah… thanks. Stupid soccer moms and their stupid habit of treating TV and videogames like stupid babysitters!
I actually like David's Sanji voice now (hey, at least he tries), but compared to Kayzie's deadpan delivery as Vivi, he's a Steven Jay Blum-level performer!
......seriously.
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Hah, VenomMyotismon was awesome (and they left in everyone calling "Lord and Master", which was creepy…). The crotch thing was also a refrence to Mephisto (a demon), I believe.
wonders if anyone gets where I got my name from now
But… His name was originally Vandemon...
Fun fact about Digimon Adventure: Hiroaki Hirata (voice of Sanji) Voices tons of people in that series, the Narrator, Yamato and Takeru's father, and Leomon. In Digimon Adventure 02, he reprises his role as the Narrator, Yamato and Takeru's father, Leomon, and also does the voices of young Gennai and Adult Takeru. He sure had some big roles in that series. :D
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Yay, more ridiculous edits.
I had one of those weird "I instantly thought of this scene" things again. Zoro clapping for Chopper :o
Whoa, what is that from? o.O
Thought it's getting off-topic =p :
In the original, there was just… two legs and nothing between. o_O Except for Rika, who had a little blur...
Whoa, wait… wha? There was a huge blur that covered their body in the dub...? o-o
Oh, so that's what the crotch thing was… I thought the "666 reference" was Beelzemon's pentogram in my avatar... XD
Yup, the magical talking crotch (there's plenty of other things I've scene reference this, like a certain enemy in Baten Kaitos, though that was a giant eyeball instead of the face).
The "666" refrence was about VenomMyotismon's appearance ("the beast will appear on the sixth second of the sixth minute of the sixth hour").
Myoti… Myotismon! I knew it was close, but I didn't think it could have been... :E
Yup. Kinda. Well, I found out the genus for bat through his name, basically. Xp
I found them a tad annoying, but they're rookies! They're child-like! :E I like Guilmon's voice for some reason… My MSN thing is guilmon, and someone weird MSNMed me and err- wanted to cyber. When I was 12 or so.
True, true. I liked Guilmon's voice, too. "Takatomon!!" =D
But… His name was originally Vandemon...
Er… o-o
That sounds familiar, actually... Vande... Vande...? -
@OP:
So they did that in Digimon too, in other words, this is a common practice among dubbing companies. Ah-Hah!!!
But Digimon's music was actually good, the voices were good, and the actual jokes weren't totally stupid. Plus, the editing was way less than that of One Piece.
Two keys points you've made. First, you said the dubs you LIKE, that's important because it will affect how you criticize the dub. If you like something, you're more likely to find positive things about the dub, if you don't like it, then you'll find negative things about a dub.
Generally, dubs that are disliked are pretty bad. There's many more negative things about the OP dub than there are for most others.
Second, are you comparing OP to similar type anime? OP is filled with outrageous wild takes and add that to it being Japanese dialouge, that makes it more difficult to act on them. Zatch Bell has the same style wild takes and it has similar difficulties. Shouldn't you be watching the anime for entertainment instead of closely watching it for mistakes? You can find mistakes in everthing if you look at it closely
Well, this would be valid if you realized the difference between OP and ZB dub–Zatch Bell's dub is actually good. They retain some of the original music, most of the dialogue is kept intact, little edits except those necessary, and the voices are great.
Uh, that you're that shallow and you'd be upset if they cover up Usopp's manliness. xD
Usopp actually being a man is something pretty vital to his character. He's constantly growing throughout the series, becoming more brave with every obstacle. If the dub just completely takes this out, then we have an absolute coward with no real worth in the product. I'm not really an Usopp fan, but at the very least he's a really good character.
We had this conversation before, I said I would put up proof of them using dialouge and then you'd forget it a week later. Did I call it, or what. (Check the post, if you don't believe me xD) So let's try this again. Remember its not about the exact wording, its the gist. Here's an updated list:
- During Baratie Arc. After losing to Mihawk, They kept kept Zolo’s line telling Luffy he failed him
- During Lougetown, they kept the line in which Zolo flips the sword saying “the curse versus his luck”
- During Lougetown, before he was to be decapitated by Buggy, they basically kept the line where Luffy tells his crew, “I’m dead”
- During Kuro Arc, they kept joke where the crew say “I steal, I fight, I slice…” then Usopp says “ I hide.”
- During Buggy Arc, they kept the line where Zoro, “I’m tired” when he is fighting the unicycle guy
- The explanation of Baroque works
- The episode where they land on the island of weird animals is almost translated word for word
- Nami blackmailing Zoro with his debt, During the Lougetown and WhiskeyPeak
- During DrumIsland the whole scene of Nami telling Luffy he owed him money for ruining her coat was kept
- During Alabastar Arc, the rock scissor paper bet gag was kept intact
- During Alabastar Arc, when they was cooking the two Gila monsters, Sanji say “these rocks are good for cooking”
- During Baratie Arc, the line where one of the chef proclaims “the customer is king”
- During Arlong Arc, After getting hit by Kuroobi, Sanji says “if that is a level 40 then the old man is a level 400” or something like that
- During Arlong Arc, the scene with the Navy finding Nami treasure was kept intact
- During Alabasta, Ace’s reason for being there sounded like they same as in the original.
- Except for Kunia's death, the kept the script in tact
- The break up of the veggie pirates, scenes after that kept intact
- The "another thing" Vivi gag was kept
- Except for the merge episodes and the rubber knife, the Arlong arc was kept nearly line for line.
- Running gag with with Zoro's debt to Nami was kept
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Just because those things were kept doesn't mean they were done actually well. They kept a few jokes, but that doesn't mean they deserve a cookie for that. Compared to other dubs, this is totally sub-par. And don't even get me started on the Arlong arc–there were so many dialogue rewrites and scene cuts that you can't even begin to believe they kept it "nearly" line for line.
but yeah i just felt the need to describe to you why one piece's dub sucks
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Whoa, what is that from? o.O
G8 - episode 202. Fun arc. :) Zoro, after clapping, "He's serious."
I put images up. Hurray :o you all watch the episode yet?
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Ro…ro....ROOOBIIII~
N~!!!! WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU~?!!! -
Yeah, pretty much. I was so shocked Saban kept them in I couldn't stop watching! Not to mention that Digimon rocks!
…o_O
Yes, digimon rocks!
Anyways, let me tell you now: Digimon is what first got me interested in anime. Not the subbed version, but the dubbed version. Sure, I only saw 3/4s of 02 up until the end, but it was great. And, burn me alive if you will, but the music fit the scene a majority of the time.
Same for me! Well, except the interested in anime part… I'm not interested in anime as a whole, just shows I like... >_>
I don't really remember when the music didn't fit... If anything, any of the music (bar that infernal intro they keep reusing) was better than happy J-Pop in times of dire need... recalls random J-Pop in the fight against Apocalymon
As far as Armor Digivolve goes… they only really changed it from "Armor Shinka"
I was talking about the US intro… o_o
Fun fact about Digimon Adventure: Hiroaki Hirata (voice of Sanji) Voices tons of people in that series, the Narrator, Yamato and Takeru's father, and Leomon. In Digimon Adventure 02, he reprises his role as the Narrator, Yamato and Takeru's father, Leomon, and also does the voices of young Gennai and Adult Takeru. He sure had some big roles in that series. :D
Wow! hate for Sanji due to dub ceases a little
Whoa, wait… wha? There was a huge blur that covered their body in the dub...? o-o
Well, just the genitals… I think. >_>
See Digimon Movie with Locomon; you'll see... or not see...
Yup, the magical talking crotch (there's plenty of other things I've scene reference this, like a certain enemy in Baten Kaitos, though that was a giant eyeball instead of the face).
…D: I never thought of it that way... I was wondering why it was... there, though...
The "666" refrence was about VenomMyotismon's appearance ("the beast will appear on the sixth second of the sixth minute of the sixth hour").
Oh, now I remember… I don't recall that scarring my life! runs from soccer moms
Yup. Kinda. Well, I found out the genus for bat through his name, basically. Xp
His name is the genus for bats?! o_O Wow.
True, true. I liked Guilmon's voice, too. "Takatomon!!" =D
Yes. ^_^
Er… o-o
That sounds familiar, actually... Vande... Vande...?I think I saw it once when looking for digimon stuff a few years ago…
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COOTIES GAHHHH WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU SANJI?!!! DON'T ACT LIKE A SIX-YEAR-OLD!! USE PROPER TERMS!!!!!
[End expulsion of anger]
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Bananagator doesn't sound as good as Bananadile.
Oh god. What have they done to Mr. 3?! They turned him into a jokester!
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G8 - episode 202. Fun arc. :) Zoro, after clapping, "He's serious."
Ah, haven't seen that yet…
Well, just the genitals… I think. >_>
Okay, yeah, that's what I thought. =p
See Digimon Movie with Locomon; you'll see… or not see...
Nani? O_o
I never thought of it that way… I was wondering why it was... there, though...
It was suppose to be his "true demon" or something in the show. Guess it was a more… "fun" weak spot? (this is becoming very akward... and off-topic XP )
His name is the genus for bats?! o_O Wow.
Yup, so I used that being my Fursona (furry character) is a bat and all. =p
I think I saw it once when looking for digimon stuff a few years ago…
I mean, like, the name itself sounds familiar, like I heard it from somewhere else.
Okay, back on-topic… uh... 4Kids sucks. o.o/
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I didn't watch it, I saw Pixar's "Cars" instead. Much more worthwhile. XD
I had one of those weird "I instantly thought of this scene" things again. Zoro clapping for Chopper :o
Hehe, that G8 pic of Chopper carrying Usopp is ver OOC'ish. Zoro: Nice job Chopper, you finally found a way to use your medical knowlege to score!
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Okay, now this episode is bad but it happens everytime they have to cover up the mess the made when they skipped episodes. Though I wanted to see more punching, they still pulled off the final scene adequately, borrowing again from the original script. :P
I remember that Rika transformation scene in Digimon, when I saw the male transformation scenes, I thought to myself, "they’re aren’t going to allow that with Rika" and boy was I shocked when they did. They even showed her nipples.
@Cowmakaze:You just made Cosmic's point by listing these scenes. The fact that you have to list specific scenes so that we can remember them is rather ridiculous. In science, a theorems are created every single day, and nobody looks for evidence for them - your job is to debunk them.
Though I’ve read your eloquent response I have to respectfully disagree. CosmicDebris and others have challenged my statement so I have no choice but to offer up proof. To ignore them would mean I was making a false statements.
@Cowmakaze:Cutting out Little Garden shows such disrespect - who are they to decide that One Piece is better off without Little Garden? If the kiddies can't stomach the story for what it is, and if that will impede the translation of a story being solely one of language, don't license the story. End of story.
What right does 4kids have in altering OP? Because they are the one’s who is spending the money, paying the expenses and taking the risk. Toei gave them the rights to broadcast their show so in essence they’ve gave them permission to do it and if Oda is cashing those royalty checks, then he is giving them permission to do so too. If its about the original art then why does everyone keep forgetting that Toei left off the first story arc where Luffy gets his scar and those filler aren’t a part of Oda’s vision either.
About the scene with Usopps Pirates…they cut out the tears. The tears. Yeah...
Yeah, they edited out the tears, which is the ONLY time they’ve done it. 4kids has a history of starting off slowly then improving over time. As noticed by the response to my post, everyone pointed back to season one mistakes again.
@CosmicDebris:But you're missing a point…the reason why I like them is because they don't make cuts and hire more well-known, talented, higher paid actors, and overall they keep the release much closer to the original. It's not all about cuts, though. There is a dub for one anime that I like very much that makes 0 cuts, yet the acting is so atrocious that it's unwatchable. Quality is not subjective. If that were true, then when you stay at a hotel and you have terrible service and room they can just say "well, it's just that you don't like this hotel", so you're finding things wrong with it." When you take art classes in college, the teacher will grade your work on your technique and execution, apart from personal preference.
Quality is always subjective. If you take me to a hotel, restaurant, etc that I don’t like then chances are I’m not going to find anything good to say about it. Why did you take me to this hotel? Because it’s a place you like it.
@CosmicDebris:Naruto is about as similar as you can get.
No its not. OP has way more wild takes, and surreal than Naruto. It’s a whole different style of anime all together. You question me about comparing other anime, yet you can't tell the difference yourself. :P I’m not supposed to compare, contrast and analyze a program. I’m supposed to be watching it.
@CosmicDebris:We arent talking about mistakes, we're talking about purposeful changes. :P
Most of them had a good reason or they were inconsequential to the main story anyway.
@CosmicDebris:Quote me: "I hope they will put swim trunks on them" :-P
I’m sorry. You must have you lost all ability to recognize a joke. Please re-read my posts again. :P
@CosmicDebris:I didn't forget it, I just think that what you posted was pointless. You're saying "look, look I found a few lines they didn't change!" BIG WHOOPIE! XD Fact is that they cut and change so much that just finding some examples where they didn't is grasping for straws. Of course you're going to find examples of points in the story that are the same as the original. If you couldn't, then we must be watching some entirely different anime. And Cowmakaze furthers that point.
First of all I came up with those points off the top of my head without going back and looking at the original. Second, you wanted me to provide you proof of them using the original script and I provided you with a small sample. You’re just vexed that I proved you’re wrong…again. Its not my fault you didn’t set boundaries. So do the honorable thing and tell me I was right.:biggrin:
@CosmicDebris:You weren't even around until after Arlong Park. :P
I’ve been here a year now and I’ve joined four months after you did. So there :P I use to believe all the criticism you guys threw around until I saw the originals and seen that 4kids had a perfectly good reason for most of their edits.
@CosmicDebris:No, you're just bullshitting again because I haven't hardly said any criticisms lately at all.
Who bullshitting now. You had a heart attack over Ace’s name change and tossed around the same clichéd talking points criticizing the dub every day for a year now.
@CosmicDebris:You're just basing this entirely off my arguments with you about the dub as a whole. I lost faith in the dub back in the Syrup village arc. It got progressively worse after that, although I totally gave them kudos for doing Chopper's arc fairly well. There hasn't been much to say about Alabasta so far with all of the episodes of filler and nothing really happens, but as I can see from the AUS releases of the episodes where things heat up, they're back to their old tricks again.
What altering the anime to Y7 standards. Yeah that’s to be expected especially if the episode were edited already for network TV. You should have given Kudos to the Baratie arc, The episodes leading up to the Arlong Arc before they skipped episodes, Lougetown except for one skipped episode, and Whiskey Peak too. So far most of Alabasta too.
@CosmicDebris:Plus they will always have the crappy voices for the main cast, the bad puns, the bad acting, and that there alone contines to make the dub unenjoyable for me.
Hmm, sounds very subjective to me. I’m certainly glad you don’t criticize the dub anymore..oh wait a minute.
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@OP:
Quality is always subjective. If you take me to a hotel, restaurant, etc that I don’t like then chances are I’m not going to find anything good to say about it. Why did you take me to this hotel? Because it’s a place you like it.
Haha, listen to what you're saying. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard you say. Why would you like a hotel as opposed to not like it? Maybe because the quality of the service that they're asking your monitary support for is bad? If you walk into a hotel and instantly decide you don't like it regardless of how well they do their job, then you're crazy. I'll choose a Motel 6 that has great customer service and clean rooms opposed to a 4 star hotel that has crappy customer service and don't keep up their rooms like they're supposed to. Stuff like that happens to me all the time. And when I get that kind of treatment, I don't go back.
No its not. OP has way more wild takes, and surreal than Naruto. It’s a whole different style of anime all together.
One Piece more surreal than Naruto? Now I KNOW you don't know what you're talking about. I like what a certain Naruto fan I know calls the show: "Magic School Bus with Ninjas". And this is a person who likes Naruto more than One Piece. XD
I’m sorry. You must have you lost all ability to recognize a joke. Please re-read my posts again. :P
I knew it was a joke, but the joke got too old to be funny. :P Jokes aren't much use if they don't make you laugh.
First of all I came up with those points off the top of my head without going back and looking at the original. Second, you wanted me to provide you proof of them using the original script and I provided you with a small sample. You’re just vexed that I proved you’re wrong…again. Its not my fault you didn’t set boundaries. So do the honorable thing and tell me I was right.
Sorry bro, as much as you think so highly of your little list, it doesn't prove a thing. Everything you listed was completely innocuous. Just read through all Cinder's comparisons and you'll see plenty more instances of how often and how badly 4kids makes unnecessary changes. It only takes one big F-up to make a bad impression. How many times would you go back to a restaurant after finding a bloody band-aid in your food or have a waiter forget your order? 4kids has too long of a list of offenses that still continue to this day to ever earn any respect from me.
This shouldn't even be an argument. It's like there's a hundred pound gorilla jumping up and down in front of you, and you've got your head in the newspaper arguing that there's no way that there can be a gorilla in front of you because there are no gorillas in Dayton, Ohio.
Why do you keep fighting this losing battle? Why not just go enjoy the dub alone instead of continuing to argue the same thing with me over and over again? -
@OP:
Though I’ve read your eloquent response I have to respectfully disagree. CosmicDebris and others have challenged my statement so I have no choice but to offer up proof. To ignore them would mean I was making a false statements.
What right does 4kids have in altering OP? Because they are the one’s who is spending the money, paying the expenses and taking the risk. Toei gave them the rights to broadcast their show so in essence they’ve gave them permission to do it and if Oda is cashing those royalty checks, then he is giving them permission to do so too. If its about the original art then why does everyone keep forgetting that Toei left off the first story arc where Luffy gets his scar and those filler aren’t a part of Oda’s vision either.
For the first point, offering up proof does nothing. If it has already been disproven that 4Kids keeps scenes in most of the time, supplying evidence of a couple times that they did keep scenes means nothing - it's like contesting the law of gravity in today's world with the logic that birds fly.
My first reaction to your second point was rage, but I waited a minute and I'm sober enough to make a rebuttal. They have the legal right to change the story, this is true. But do they have the right - the moral, ethic right, that is - to decide that they are smarter than Oda? Oda didn't sell 4Kids the rights - Toei did. And how was Oda to know that his masterpiece would be shat upon in this way? He couldn't, so the blame is off of his shoulders. It's even off of Toei's shoulders a little bit, considering how 4Kids promised a better dub when they showed the English We Are. All I have to say about this point is it's a sad sad day indeed when money gives someone the right to ruin a great story.
Let me put it this way by exaggerating a huuuge amount - say I somehow bought the rights to the Bible (impossible, yes, but this is a hypothetical situation, so bear with me). I decide that, hey, I don't like the whole story of Noah's ark. Let's get rid of that, then. Also, Jesus being crucified is too violent, let's say he got poisoned instead. And David and the Goliath? Boring, kill it. What's the reaction of the general public to this? Riots everywhere. Is this justified? Yes, entirely - I just completely obliterated one of the most classic tales on the planet because I thought I could write a better one or that I could change the target audience.
And how is this any different from what 4Kids has done to One Piece? Different form of media, so more people take it seriously, and that is all. If you think that makes their torture of it justifiable, you have learned nothing from what I've said. A story is a story, no matter the format. And if it makes you laugh, if it makes you cry, if it makes you steam in rage, if the writer is skilled enough to evoke an emotional response in the reader, it has succeeded. This is incredibly difficult to do, and for 4Kids to be allowed to destroy all that hard work just because they have money is a disgrace to the honor of the art that is writing a beautiful story.Oh, and I still don't forgive Toei for what you've mentioned.
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Yeah, they edited out the tears, which is the ONLY time they’ve done it. 4kids has a history of starting off slowly then improving over time. As noticed by the response to my post, everyone pointed back to season one mistakes again.
Laboon plothole. Little Garden plothole.
_>
Oh god. What have they done to Mr. 3?! They turned him into a jokester!
Hey, it's summer!
"It's a summer bummer for Mr. 3 when… he turns into a jokester!" shot
Nani? O_o
_> Watch the other parts, too!
Beware the Etemon voice for Locomon and the mismatching Frontier music…
It was suppose to be his "true demon" or something in the show. Guess it was a more… "fun" weak spot? (this is becoming very akward... and off-topic XP )
Let's beat him by kicking him in the crotch with an ice and fire explosion!!! XD
Yup, so I used that being my Fursona (furry character) is a bat and all. =p
I see…
I remember that Rika transformation scene in Digimon, when I saw the male transformation scenes, I thought to myself, "they’re aren’t going to allow that with Rika" and boy was I shocked when they did. They even showed her nipples.
Oh yeah… But in the JP version, there happened to be a "data stream" in front of her... area. But her chest was uncovered... o_O
EDIT: I saw the dub, and they didn't add anything... for Rika... I'll go and look for Takato and Henry... >_>
EDIT2: ...And there's a scene when the data stream has moved lower... ...
EDIT3: Wow, in the shows, Takato/Henry were uncensored! But there's nothing there anyway... Only in the movie dubbed by Disney were they censored... >_>
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I think the guys at the 4Kids forums are messing up the One Piece Wikipedia article. I was reading the minor characters section and came across the
! Saul Article and it was saying that it was revealed that he was Luffy and "Trace's" grandfather. When nothing has been revealed. The only blood relation we know is Luffy and Ace. For all we know, he could be releated to Gol D. Roger.
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Omg! I saw the Baroque Works meeting for the first time dubbed last night. I already read the posts so I expected some things. When I saw Mr. 3 and his comic routine I just walked away.
Why would Crocodile want Mr. 3 to kill the strawhats in loguetown if he didn't even know about them until Whiskey Peak…
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…OP Man up untill usopp it was somewhat an okay bastardized version. After that it got worse-
David Moo
Poison Suction Cups
Arlong Arc
Chaser
Laboon
Little Garden
Trace
Southern Robin ( Not the worst thing but still worth mentioning. Good voice other wise)
Miss Groundhogsday
Mr. 3
Croc vs Luffy ending
And that is the tip of the whale.LOL. But seriously OP Man. How can you defend them. How.
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Holy crap. Mr. 3's voice and dialogue is quite possibly the most retarded thing I've ever heard. And I don't seem to remember Ms. MC repeating herself that much. At least they kept the cool little scene with Toto and Luffy and the water.
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I redub OP Man "4kids Man"! Yea, that sounds bout right.
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I think the guys at the 4Kids forums are messing up the One Piece Wikipedia article. I was reading the minor characters section and came across the
! Saul Article and it was saying that it was revealed that he was Luffy and "Trace's" grandfather. When nothing has been revealed. The only blood relation we know is Luffy and Ace. For all we know, he could be releated to Gol D. Roger.
err damn dubbies…
they have to ruin wiki too... -
@OP:
If its about the original art then why does everyone keep forgetting that Toei left off the first story arc where Luffy gets his scar and those filler aren’t a part of Oda’s vision either.
That reminds me of when someone was complaining about "Tuna" part of Titanic Tuna (originally Elephant Tuna), explicitly NOT the Titanic part. As you can see, when I pointed out the original was like that, they retracted their opinion entirely.
Not to say I agree with you on the degree of 4kids edits, but I hate them because I hate them. The fact is some people will bitch either because it's 4kids (removing Apis) or because they THINK it's 4kids and forgot it was Toei (Zeff, Luffy's scar) or even Oda himself (see above). Luckily, these people are nothing compared to Naruto purists =P
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I think the guys at the 4Kids forums are messing up the One Piece Wikipedia article. I was reading the minor characters section and came across the
! Saul Article and it was saying that it was revealed that he was Luffy and "Trace's" grandfather. When nothing has been revealed. The only blood relation we know is Luffy and Ace. For all we know, he could be releated to Gol D. Roger.
And this is why I always tell people to not get their information from Wikipedia. ;)
Remember Hulk Hogan Franky? XD -
Mr. 2: grabs Mr. 3's nutsack tightly
Mr. 3: Hehehe, okay, how many shitty pointless joke must 4Kids throw into each episode of OP?!
Crocodile: Grr.
Mr. 3: THERE'S NOT A NUMBER HIGH ENOUGH!! WHAHAHAHAH!
Crocodile: ….hehehehe
Everyone: HAHAHAHA.
Really, that was one of the most painful things I have EVER watched on TV. The only voice that was DECENT was Crocodile. Oh god..... >_>
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And this is why I always tell people to not get their information from Wikipedia. ;)
Remember Hulk Hogan Franky? XDACK! I still feel stupid for believing that was true. XP Wait until the dubbed Pirates' Carnival comes out (if he ever does show up).
EDIT- A bit late, but I just heard Mr. 3's voice on YouTube. :( He sounds like a clown that doesn't know how to act. I was in such a good mood today, but now I blame 4Retards for ruining my day!! They don't care about the fans at all - they just want to please the wittle kiddies with ther widdle crummy jokes. "Roguetown, "Trace", "Nebra"… >.< Sorry, OPMan, but there's no doubt that the spirit of the One Piece anime no longer exists in America. :'( Kahn shot it down like a pigeon, along with his minions.
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He wont. US Pirates Carnival probably wont even go up to Skypiea.
And was 4kids Man defending 4kids by saying Toei cut things and added fillers…...omg, man, you just reached an entirely different lowness.
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Meh. Stupid 4Kids. They shouldv'e said that Crocodile wanted Mr.3 to follow the Straw-Hats since "Misty" Peak. It'd still be a story edit, but at least then it'd make some sence. Ehh, whatever…
I kinda liked Luffy's acting in the end of the episode, though. I think it was actually the best we've heard of his actress (like that's saying very much).
But he actually sounded pretty badass in that last part. Something dub Luffy usually has a problem with. :p
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He wont. US Pirates Carnival probably wont even go up to Skypiea.
And was 4kids Man defending 4kids by saying Toei cut things and added fillers…...omg, man, you just reached an entirely different lowness.
One Piece: Grand Advanture (o_O) goes up to Skypeia… Although Breath Dial FIre Wand thing is the only thing from Skypeia so far...
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They used Etemon's voice for Locomon… Which was weird... "I'm going to ruuun... and keeep on ruuunin'!" ...;_;
I think Etemon was supposed to be imitating Elvis, and Locomon was supposed to be imitating Johnny Cash. I agree that they sounded similar, though.
I wonder why they would edit that… They kept Wizardmon, Whamon, Pixiemon, and Sabreleomon... maybe more... >_>
Not to mention in the later seasons, the deaths of Wormmon, Leomon (Season 3), Kouichi, (EDIT: Seraphimon, Ophanimon,) and all of the random Digimon were kept.
On topic: Mr. 3's dub voice is at the top of my most-hated dub voice list (yes, even more than Sanji or Usopp). Every line he said made me cringe. I honestly thought that 4Kids would make him have a British accent (like Ren from the dub of Shaman King), since he drinks tea during Little Garden.
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Mr. 3 didn't have a bad voice, but that doesn't make up for what they did to his character. It doesn't make sense to make him into a comedian with terrible puns. It's not like kids are going to laugh at this.