Well regardless of what abilities cap has, will he carry the film as much as people like stark? I have my doubts.
Whedon said the movie will mostly be from Cap's POV.
Well regardless of what abilities cap has, will he carry the film as much as people like stark? I have my doubts.
Whedon said the movie will mostly be from Cap's POV.
And the advertising begins:
Wow. Those commercials were actually really good.
The movie from his perspective will be cool no doubt. he will bind them together and make a group of impossible people work as a uni, that much is a given, but aside from the predictable role he has, what else will he offer in terms of raw strength or interlectual input.
I think I've just got a bit of a anticap thing going on after seeing the movie. It kind of dirtied the image I had of him. Kind of how I now view the green lantern.
Cap's strategic prowess and ability to lead have always been overexagerated to the point of DEM in the comics (much like Batman's planning). It will probably be the same in the movie.
The movie from his perspective will be cool no doubt. he will bind them together and make a group of impossible people work as a uni, that much is a given, but aside from the predictable role he has, what else will he offer in terms of raw strength or interlectual input.
Dirtied how?
And Cap's shield is VERY POWERUL and made of Vibranium. Given his skills, intellect, and leadership, he is in a FAR higher tier than the SHIELD assassins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium
Cap's shield doesn't yield for a reason.
The movie from his perspective will be cool no doubt. he will bind them together and make a group of impossible people work as a uni, that much is a given, but aside from the predictable role he has, what else will he offer in terms of raw strength or interlectual input.
I think I've just got a bit of a anticap thing going on after seeing the movie. It kind of dirtied the image I had of him. Kind of how I now view the green lantern.
Again, he has peak human abilities. No, he's not Superman strong. (nobody is) But, to compare him to, say Hawkeye and Black Widow, he's stronger, faster, and more endurable. And to compare to their bow/gadgets, he has his Vibranium Shield.
Yeah i'm with Smudge on that one. Feels like pretty much every dingus in the marvel universe has peak human abilities.
But he's supposed to be that way no? He's the every man, well compared to the other world destroyers he's paired up with
Yeah i'm with Smudge on that one. Feels like pretty much every dingus in the marvel universe has peak human abilities.
But he's supposed to be that way no? He's the every man, well compared to the other world destroyers he's paired up with
We're talking peak on like a DNA level. Hawkeye and Black Widow are at the peak in terms of normal conditioning, but Cap is above any Olympian athlete that ever existed. He can bench press up to 800 pounds.
Example from the movie: He can't get drunk because his metabolism is so high that the alcohol can't take effect.
Basically, he's weak enough to be relatable on an 'everyman' basis, but he's powerful enough that he's still beyond what any normal training could offer people like Black Widow and Batman for that basis. Also, he's essentially the symbol for courage. There's a big difference between seeing a person like Superman stand up to an intergalactic villain and seeing someone like Cap stand up to them.
I know you are trying to sell him Satsuki, but it's pret much impossible when you stand him next to a thundergod, a gamma powered monster capable of tearing a hole through space with rage alone, and genius playboy that has the leading tech on all weaponry, including that fact he is powered by a miniature reactor that could probably put out enough energy to run a small city. Lol not to mention all of them could wipe out just about every tank, plane, helicopter or super soldier thrown at them, where as cap struggles with very low tier villains. But what irks me most is his weapon. Something that is thrown about constantly yet always somehow makes it back into his hands, thus keeping him from narrow defeat.
By the way wasn't there a weakness shown with vibranium?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Basically, he's weak enough to be relatable on an 'everyman' basis, but he's powerful enough that he's still beyond what any normal training could offer people like Black Widow and Batman for that basis. Also, he's essentially the symbol for courage. There's a big difference between seeing a person like Superman stand up to an intergalactic villain and seeing someone like Cap stand up to them.
there is also a big difference seeing superman lift a skyscraper and seeing cap struggle to flip over a car. Lol
On a serious note though caps biggest asset is his ability to lead people. Aside from that he doesn't have much against most legendary heros and villains.
I agree with Smudger regarding Caps strenght level. Theres just no getting around the fact that of the 4 main dudes, he's easily the weakest.
I've never really cared for cap, and the reason is all in his name. When you're a young dane, Spider Man is just a cool dude beating up bad guys in a big city. You know it's an american city, but it didn't have to be, and his color scheme is just…red and blue. But with captain "america", he distances himself from you right there by declaring that this is not your hero, but Americas hero, clad in Americas flag, and fighting for Americas ideals. Naturally so are superman and spiderman, but it's not as crystal clearly advertized, and goes right over the head of the average comic book reader here.
The Movie almost endeared him to me, but then his compassionate, naive and cheerful nature got absolutely disentegrated like so many Nazis in the third act. I liked "I'm not in this to kill anyone" Cap, not mirthless throw-nazis-out-of-planes Cap.
Example from the movie: He can't get drunk because his metabolism is so high that the alcohol can't take effect.
Don't underestimate this power; in a team with Tony Stark, being able to hold alcohol is a valuable skill.
sigh I suppose part of it is just the American vs. Not-American thing. We love him. And the shield.
Personally, I like Cap - I see him as representing American ideals rather than American culture or politics. He's a good person who's trying to put a stop to oppression, which is something that I can respect. Within the Marvel universe, he's basically a moral paragon - like Superman, except more relatable because he can't make up a new super-power for any given situation. As far as his strength level, it seems to me like he'd be a smarter version of Blonsky from the Incredible Hulk (not only would he be a better leader and less fight-happy, I can't see him stopping in front of a pissed-off Hulk to say "is that all you got?" only to get punted into the nearest tree), prior to his own hulking out. I'm pretty sure that Blonsky was injected with a form of the Super Soldier Serum, though presumably a version that wasn't as effective.
Basically, he's weak enough to be relatable on an 'everyman' basis, but he's powerful enough that he's still beyond what any normal training could offer people like Black Widow and Batman for that basis. Also, he's essentially the symbol for courage. There's a big difference between seeing a person like Superman stand up to an intergalactic villain and seeing someone like Cap stand up to them.
Personally, I like Cap - I see him as representing American ideals rather than American culture or politics. He's a good person who's trying to put a stop to oppression, which is something that I can respect. Within the Marvel universe, he's basically a moral paragon - like Superman, except more relatable because he can't make up a new super-power for any given situation
I fully approve of the content of these two posts.
@Thousand:
I actually liked Cap more than Iron Man. Robert Downey Jr. was the superior protagonist but I was more into the World War II setting and the plot of Captain America and the naive, pure hearted Captain America than the slick, wise-cracking Iron Man.
The fact that they are complete polar opposites of each other is actually what really makes me excited for this movie. I can't wait to see what type of rapport they are gonna have with each other…and hopefully have some undertones of this...
!
If the Avengers movie does stem off into multiple movies, I would love if the Civil War was a focus of one of them…although I'm not holding my breath...
Very unlikely. Civil War has just too many heroes in it for it to work in a movie.
And if we want another example of power:
Personally, I like Cap - I see him as representing American ideals rather than American culture or politics. He's a good person who's trying to put a stop to oppression, which is something that I can respect. Within the Marvel universe, he's basically a moral paragon - like Superman, except more relatable because he can't make up a new super-power for any given situation. As far as his strength level, it seems to me like he'd be a smarter version of Blonsky from the Incredible Hulk (not only would he be a better leader and less fight-happy, I can't see him stopping in front of a pissed-off Hulk to say "is that all you got?" only to get punted into the nearest tree), prior to his own hulking out. I'm pretty sure that Blonsky was injected with a form of the Super Soldier Serum, though presumably a version that wasn't as effective.
Pretty much, yeah. To quote the movie again:
"I don't want to kill anybody. I don't like bullies; I don't care where they're from"
Aaannnd, to quote Red Skull:
"Arrogance is not a uniquely American trait, but you do it better than most."
@The:
I agree with Smudger regarding Caps strenght level. Theres just no getting around the fact that of the 4 main dudes, he's easily the weakest.
Yeah, but Hulk and Thor are pretty god-damn powerful, even in the movies.
Very unlikely. Civil War has just too many heroes in it for it to work in a movie.
In addition to that the civil war was all kinds of terrible.
Aaannnd, to quote Red Skull:
"Arrogance is not a uniquely American trait, but you do it better than most."
Those nazi's and their mastery of the sound bite
@The:
But with captain "america", he distances himself from you right there by declaring that this is not your hero, but Americas hero, clad in Americas flag, and fighting for Americas ideals. Naturally so are superman and spiderman, but it's not as crystal clearly advertized, and goes right over the head of the average comic book reader here.
The Movie almost endeared him to me, but then his compassionate, naive and cheerful nature got absolutely disentegrated like so many Nazis in the third act. I liked "I'm not in this to kill anyone" Cap, not mirthless throw-nazis-out-of-planes Cap.
Cap isn't really "America's Hero", but rather a guy who likes the ideals that America "represents". He turned against America itself when he felt they were doing wrong. His phrase in the movie: "I just don't like bullies" is pretty much the best way to describe what he stands for I've ever seen. Sure he's called Captain America, but when you listen to him and read his comics… he's a very enjoyable person.
Cap was in a war, you're asking a whole lot of him to try and manage an entire plane of soldiers by himself by just knocking them out. That's not going to happen.
That knife throw was extremely out of there though.
- Cap isn't really "America's Hero", but rather a guy who likes the ideals that America "represents". He turned against America itself when he felt they were doing wrong. His phrase in the movie: "I just don't like bullies" is pretty much the best way to describe what he stands for I've ever seen. Sure he's called Captain America, but when you listen to him and read his comics… he's a very enjoyable person.
I'm no Cap comic expert as they've never been published here, but you can't deny that his very existence and character is steeped in way more americanness than any other hero. When Captain America denounces his American citizenship because America has strayed from it's true American values, it's a big deal because Captain America is THE American, the epitome of all the best things America can stand for.
- Cap was in a war, you're asking a whole lot of him to try and manage an entire plane of soldiers by himself by just knocking them out. That's not going to happen.
That knife throw was extremely out of there though.
Its been a while since I've seen it, but mostly it was that scene after Buckys death that ruined it for me. Cap is understandably depressed, but then he starts going all "Imma KILL those nazi motherfuckers!" and…love interest doesn't say a thing. Considering his "I don't want to kill anybody. I don't like bullies" line, and the fact that he only got chosen for the project because he was almost saintlike in naivety, I really, really needed Love Interest to go "that's not like you!" or something like that. But it never got adressed. And next thing Cap is blasting soldiers to smithereens with his deathgun, and throwing them off planes (into propellers if I recall correctly) and being all hoo-ha action hero. And despite all this, from this point on his meek "I don't want to kill anybody" way of thinking isn't referenced in the slightest.
@The:
I'm no Cap comic expert as they've never been published here, but you can't deny that his very existence and character is steeped in way more americanness than any other hero. When Captain America denounces his American citizenship because America has strayed from it's true American values, it's a big deal because Captain America is THE American, the epitome of all the best things America can stand for.
Its been a while since I've seen it, but mostly it was that scene after Buckys death that ruined it for me. Cap is understandably depressed, but then he starts going all "Imma KILL those nazi motherfuckers!" and…love interest doesn't say a thing. Considering his "I don't want to kill anybody. I don't like bullies" line, and the fact that he only got chosen for the project because he was almost saintlike in naivety, I really, really needed Love Interest to go "that's not like you!" or something like that. But it never got adressed. And next thing Cap is blasting soldiers to smithereens with his deathgun, and throwing them off planes (into propellers if I recall correctly) and being all hoo-ha action hero. And despite all this, from this point on his meek "I don't want to kill anybody" way of thinking isn't referenced in the slightest.
Cap takes his anti-bullying campain way more serious than other people.
All jokes aside, I see your point, but I don't think Steve stood for the American values because those values are "ideally American" but rather, he just so happens to agree with the values that "America stands for".
I don't remember that much about the transition after Bucky's death in the movie, but if it happens as you say, that's hilarious.
I don't remember him saying he was going to go massacre some Nazis though, or any of the sort.
It's not like Cap went out of his way to kill anyone either if I recall. I can understand your point if Cap saw a Nazi running for his life and Cap puts a few rounds in his back.
But Cap was on a plane in the sky. They were going to drop bombs on various cities too. He couldn't really just knock them out.
Cap takes his anti-bullying campain way more serious than other people.
He's currently bullying some poor mutants into falling in line or getting pulverized along with the island they live on.
He's currently bullying some poor mutants into falling in line or getting pulverized along with the island they live on.
Nah see, Cap's just showing the true damage bullying causes by example. Very Seriously.
You know I really wanted the whole American icon debate to be left alone, but now it's out the bag we might as well point out the biggest flaw in his return.
Ok now the first thing I want to point out is the outfit. Now back in the days of nazis and whatnot America had the need for all kinds of moral and spirit boosters, hence the swaths of stars and stripes everywhere, including the war figure that was cap himself. But the issue is that we are in a whole new era where the threats aren't just countries or regimes, but villains and terrorists. The need to don the stars and strips over cap is meaningless now and kind of pointless, but for some reason he still wears that suit instead of making something new that shows his dedication towards the team and moreso his new image.
In short it just seems weird to see him in his old uniform when the need just isn't there.
shrug His name is Captain America, how else is his costume supposed to look?
We're in a comic book world here, remember. And as said, Cap is supposed to represent the American IDEAL, and it's kinda hard to do that without the colors and the stars.
It's not like Cap went out of his way to kill anyone either if I recall. I can understand your point if Cap saw a Nazi running for his life and Cap puts a few rounds in his back.
But Cap was on a plane in the sky. They were going to drop bombs on various cities too. He couldn't really just knock them out.
I agree completely that he had little room for choice, but when someone has been throughly established to be an real upstanding guy who dislikes conflict and values life, I'd like to see some reaction, or acknowledgement, when that same guy throws an opponent into a propeller that shreds him into a million gooey pieces.
@The:
I agree completely that he had little room for choice, but when someone has been throughly established to be an real upstanding guy who dislikes conflict and values life, I'd like to see some reaction, or acknowledgement, when that same guy throws an opponent into a propeller that shreds him into a million gooey pieces.
The knife throw is what made me do a double take. I assumed the propeller thing wasn't "intentional" but that knife throw.. you can't even argue that one. That was just… brutal.
shrug His name is Captain America, how else is his costume supposed to look?
We're in a comic book world here, remember. And as said, Cap is supposed to represent the American IDEAL, and it's kinda hard to do that without the colors and the stars.
I agree with you there, but I don't see why that still applies nowadays considering the war is over and the need for a captain America or that symbol isnt needed any more.
I think he could have had a moment where he realized this and reinvented himself into something that would apply to this point in time, or even just something that says more about his new role as leader of the avengers. Even if that just meant he was a bit more subtle about the US imagery and stuff with his costume and show he was more a protector of the world.
After all it's not like Ultrons going to cross the state border and have the avengers halt in the other side, totally powerless to intervene in international affairs. Lol
Captain America is representing American ideals by invading a sovereign nation with his Avengers buddies, because they THINK it houses the mutant equivalent of a WMD.
Captain America is representing American ideals by invading a sovereign nation with his Avengers buddies, because they THINK it houses the mutant equivalent of a WMD.
Is this Ultimate Cap? Sounds like Ultimate Cap.
This is Avengers vs. X-Men I take it? I want to read it. I keep forgetting.
You would imagine that a guy called captain america would be a little more fox newsy.
Like patrolling the border for mexicans, or punching "godless" muslims.
Is this Ultimate Cap? Sounds like Ultimate Cap.
This is Avengers vs. X-Men I take it? I want to read it. I keep forgetting.
Yeah, it's Avengers vs. X-Men. Regular Cap has become more and more like Ultimate Cap ever since his return from the dead, but unlike the satirical Ultimate Cap, we're still supposed to take this one seriously.
You know I really wanted the whole American icon debate to be left alone, but now it's out the bag we might as well point out the biggest flaw in his return.
Ok now the first thing I want to point out is the outfit. Now back in the days of nazis and whatnot America had the need for all kinds of moral and spirit boosters, hence the swaths of stars and stripes everywhere, including the war figure that was cap himself. But the issue is that we are in a whole new era where the threats aren't just countries or regimes, but villains and terrorists. The need to don the stars and strips over cap is meaningless now and kind of pointless, but for some reason he still wears that suit instead of making something new that shows his dedication towards the team and moreso his new image.
In short it just seems weird to see him in his old uniform when the need just isn't there.
Because his Nomad outfit looks far worse.
The U.S. Agent outfit is okay though, but it keeps the stars and stripes motif.
Do you have similar problems with Captain Britain (who can fly and has magic super powers) or Alpha Flight? (Who basically suck)
Red Skull wears a swastika. Does that lose its meaning or impact with the times? What about Omega Red being a blatant Commie? The Mandarin? Sure it ages them, but it also makes them distinct monsters from a certain time and place.
His Captain Rogers outfit was great, but of course he had to go back to the iconic costume in time for the movie!
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@Cyan:
Don't underestimate this power; in a team with Tony Stark, being able to hold alcohol is a valuable skill.
Who would win in a drinking game: Captain America or Wolverine?
Who would win in a drinking game: Captain America or Wolverine?
Wolverine, its been established that his healing factor makes it very hard for him to get tanked.
@RobbyBevard:
The Mandarin?
I don't know how they portray him nowadays but the original apperance of the Mandarin was one of those few moments where i actually thought to myself, wow that's pretty racist
Wolverine, its been established that his healing factor makes it very hard for him to get tanked.
Example from the movie: He can't get drunk because his metabolism is so high that the alcohol can't take effect.
I think the game would eventually turn into a who-can-hold-the-most-piss-in-his-body game.
Captain America is representing American ideals by invading a sovereign nation with his Avengers buddies, because they THINK it houses the mutant equivalent of a WMD.
Yeah, they also sent The Punisher into space and turned the normally-nice Colossus into the avatar of an evil super-demon, among others.
The fact that they are complete polar opposites of each other is actually what really makes me excited for this movie. I can't wait to see what type of rapport they are gonna have with each other…and hopefully have some undertones of this...
! http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6521/tumblrlfk931nrnx1qe0y5z.jpg
Or this?
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Watch the Avengers movie turn into a Steve/Tony buddy flick halfway through.
Or this?
[hide]http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/7/78/Natasha_Stark_(Earth-3490).jpg[/hide]
Still better than Civil War tbh
You would imagine that a guy called captain america would be a little more fox newsy.
Like patrolling the border for mexicans, or punching "godless" muslims.
Avengers movie 2 - cap and crew discover WMD's in the middle east. Bush gives the world the bird on live tv.
@RobbyBevard:
Because his Nomad outfit looks far worse.
The U.S. Agent outfit is okay though, but it keeps the stars and stripes motif.
[qimg]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3329/109773-105562-u-s-agent_large.PNG[/qimg]
Do you have similar problems with Captain Britain (who can fly and has magic super powers) or Alpha Flight? (Who basically suck)
[qimg]http://images.wikia.com/hasbroheroes/images/f/fe/Captain-britain.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/787/87186-163588-alpha-flight_super.jpg[/qimg]Red Skull wears a swastika. Does that lose its meaning or impact with the times? What about Omega Red being a blatant Commie? The Mandarin? Sure it ages them, but it also makes them distinct monsters from a certain time and place.
actually I kind of like the nomad outfit you posted. And the agent uniform is a bit more subtle too, but it's still obvious enough to pin him to one country when he should be pressing an image that doesn't confine him or his beliefs to nothing but the entire world.
Oh dear god what the hell is a caption brittain? Please tell me it died suddenly nd painfully moments after its first appearance. Seriously though tht is just plain embarrassing, I don't know how you folks can bare cap. He looks like a Harlem globe trotter. Lol
As for the red skull, won't he always be part of the swastika as hydra is just a branch of that originally? Plus the swastika isnt being used to represent a country.
@wolfwood:
I don't know how they portray him nowadays but the original apperance of the Mandarin was one of those few moments where i actually thought to myself, wow that's pretty racist
how was the mandarin racist?
@Cyan:
Watch the Avengers movie turn into a Steve/Tony buddy flick halfway through.
the end credits will have an anti drinking commercial starring the cap.
I agree with you there, but I don't see why that still applies nowadays considering the war is over and the need for a captain America or that symbol isnt needed any more.
I think he could have had a moment where he realized this and reinvented himself into something that would apply to this point in time, or even just something that says more about his new role as leader of the avengers. Even if that just meant he was a bit more subtle about the US imagery and stuff with his costume and show he was more a protector of the world.
After all it's not like Ultrons going to cross the state border and have the avengers halt in the other side, totally powerless to intervene in international affairs. Lol
The war's been over for decades for us, but in Cap's mind it was still going on. He hasn't had the time to get cynical like the rest of us.
Also keep in mind this: It's marketing. The character is Captain America. His costume is stars and stripes. That's how he's best known, both to geeks and the general audience. They're not going to change that, for the first movie anyway. They want him as iconic as they can get.
Captain Brittain is an amazing character created by industry legends Alan Moore and Chris Claremont. plz don't diss.
how was the mandarin racist?
Hey Stan what do chinese people look like?
Oh you know they don't have eyes, just draw a thin slanted line covered with bushy eyebrows, throw in a fu manchu, long scary finger nails and some buck teeth and you're golden.
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Yeah that seems about right.
Good old sixties racism.
He's currently bullying some poor mutants into falling in line or getting pulverized along with the island they live on.
Hey, hey, hey…
Scott shot first, so it is totally fair for Cap to call out the entire Avengers team, all 50 of them...