A thread focusing on Yamato, and how the focus on the character has increased after only a year of being introduced to the extent of being involved in plot-driven aspects such as safeguarding Momo for the dawn of the world and challenging an Emperor alongside Luffy, as well as what future may hold for the character.
Yamato Character Discussion
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I feel like I know him, but I don't know him. That makes me question (mods can move this if it's meant to be in another thread) which Straw Hat's skill/attribute was the least obvious and took the longest to recognize after they were introduced.
I think Robin popping up at the end of WP arc makes her the winner.
I feel like Kaido wanting Yamato to be the Shogun of New Onigashima is a hint. He knows his son best. Even if Yamato doesn't want it. Garp could have chose so many professions for Luffy and Ace, but he wanted them to be Marines. It was the closest way to redirect them from that path. Ace and Luffy were meant to travel the world and fight.
Now how do I apply Shogun to Yamato in that same way? Kaido is trying to replicate Beehive/Fullalead, the spot where the Rocks crew and the Davy Back Games originated. It's a "paradise". Oden didn't want to be Shogun either, but he was meant to be. His actions were selfish, but he also wanted to improve Wano. He was just naturally the leader.
Even tho I feel there's a lot of build up based on how Kaido views Yamato, there's a chance that he is meant for something completely unrelated. Skill/attributes of the crew are always linked to their goal which is their role in the story.
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Since the beginning, I was expecting a twist about Yamato. At first I thought he'd be evil, but that quickly fell off.
My current theory (waiting for more clues) is that Yamato was bred because Kaido needed someone to be "Joy Boy". Since he has shown knowledge in that regard, he may know what it means. Maybe only a D can act as a Joy Boy, and so Yamato is born from a woman from the D clan.
This seems to explain why Kaido wanted Yamato to be shogun. He knows something about Wano's importance. Maybe, in his own way, he's planning to "open the borders" of Wano (to all pirates who join him).
So, for now, I'm expecting Kaido to reveal drop these infobombs on Yamato during their fight. Yamato has a fate set for him by his father, and his quest is be to challenge that fate.
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I feel like I know him, but I don't know him. That makes me question (mods can move this if it's meant to be in another thread) which Straw Hat's skill/attribute was the least obvious and took the longest to recognize after they were introduced.
I think Robin popping up at the end of WP arc makes her the winner.
I feel like Kaido wanting Yamato to be the Shogun of New Onigashima is a hint. He knows his son best. Even if Yamato doesn't want it. Garp could have chose so many professions for Luffy and Ace, but he wanted them to be Marines. It was the closest way to redirect them from that path. Ace and Luffy were meant to travel the world and fight.
Now how do I apply Shogun to Yamato in that same way? Kaido is trying to replicate Beehive/Fullalead, the spot where the Rocks crew and the Davy Back Games originated. It's a "paradise". Oden didn't want to be Shogun either, but he was meant to be. His actions were selfish, but he also wanted to improve Wano. He was just naturally the leader.
https://i.imgur.com/tQJxSqP.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/l3tke3L.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/tQJxSqP.jpg?1Even tho I feel there's a lot of build up based on how Kaido views Yamato, there's a chance that he is meant for something completely unrelated. Skill/attributes of the crew are always linked to their goal which is their role in the story.
Usually a character shows or at least alludes to their occupation in the arc they were introduced in, with even Robin’s skill in acquiring and passing on crucial information like Mr. 0’s true identity being mentioned in the Whisky Peak arc. Yamato seems keen on and does well in defending and fighting for other people, like attacking Ulti for Luffy and protecting Momo and Shinobu from Sasaki, so maybe a bodyguard would suit her best.
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This post is deleted!
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So after the latest chapter, is anyone here at least a little more inclined to feel that Yamato joining alongside Luffy and his journey makes sense for the story?
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I thought this thread was deleted. I remember looking for it some weeks back and couldn't find it.
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Will Yamato eventually outgrow his Oden-cosplay or is it a permanent feature of the character? For me that's the most pressing issue as I like the visual design of the character alot but hate the Oden-shtick.
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Will Yamato eventually outgrow his Oden-cosplay or is it a permanent feature of the character? For me that's the most pressing issue as I like the visual design of the character alot but hate the Oden-shtick.
He's ALREADY outgrowing it. He made his first appeal to Momo as his father, and then went "but my other name is Yamato!" And that's what he's using to face down Kaidou. He's not even using twin swords!
Now that he doesn't need a fantasy escape for his situation, he's grown into his own pretty rapidly.
And even if he does keep the distinctly Japanese outfit, Oda rarely keeps the cast in the same clothes twice, so it'll look different.
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He's ALREADY outgrowing it. He made his first appeal to Momo as his father, and then went "but my other name is Yamato!" And that's what he's using to face down Kaidou. He's not even using twin swords!
Now that he doesn't need a fantasy escape for his situation, he's grown into his own pretty rapidly.
And even if he does keep the distinctly Japanese outfit, Oda rarely keeps the cast in the same clothes twice, so it'll look different.
I thought so too but then when we last saw him facing off with Kaido he said he has to defend Wano or he cannot call himself Oden. Oh well, we will see.
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Will Yamato eventually outgrow his Oden-cosplay or is it a permanent feature of the character? For me that's the most pressing issue as I like the visual design of the character alot but hate the Oden-shtick.
Yamato basically made it apparent that she was cosplaying as Oden as a means to be free to Luffy, and seems desperate to carry on Oden’s will as much as she could as a means to free not just herself, but the rest of Wano, which Oden himself failed to do. Ace also made it apparent that there’s also unfinished business to settle internally after he called out her chained heart, so it seems to be only a matter of time that she has to decide whether to be Oden for Oden’s sake or for herself after the Wano arc ends.
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Yamato is Luffy's wings
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People still want Sanji's pervy ways and Usopp's cowardice to be tempered. Good luck with "I want to be Oden" going away.
The point is to add on to the character. Luffy will still be Luffy, but when Pedro dies, he shows his growth. Sanji will still be himself, but he will shout for Robin's help with all his might.
If Yamato joins, I can easily see his character getting development 1 day. Doesn't have to be as soon as he joined, unless you're 1 of those readers that think only little can be done because the series is almost over.
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People still want Sanji's pervy ways and Usopp's cowardice to be tempered. Good luck with "I want to be Oden" going away.
The point is to add on to the character. Luffy will still be Luffy, but when Pedro dies, he shows his growth. Sanji will still be himself, but he will shout for Robin's help with all his might.
If Yamato joins, I can easily see his character getting development 1 day. Doesn't have to be as soon as he joined, unless you're 1 of those readers that think only little can be done because the series is almost over.
I suspect feeling the freedom of sailing the seas with Luffy and being unchained from Kaido in her heart will incline her to come to terms with becoming Oden soon enough.
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People still want Sanji's pervy ways and Usopp's cowardice to be tempered. Good luck with "I want to be Oden" going away.
The point is to add on to the character. Luffy will still be Luffy, but when Pedro dies, he shows his growth. Sanji will still be himself, but he will shout for Robin's help with all his might.
If Yamato joins, I can easily see his character getting development 1 day. Doesn't have to be as soon as he joined, unless you're 1 of those readers that think only little can be done because the series is almost over.
IMO she can be Oden or she can be a Nakama. The cosplay trait in itself is annoying, and cosplaying as Oden, one of the worst characters in the Manga, is plain insufferable. A shame cause visually Yamato is amazing
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IMO she can be Oden or she can be a Nakama. The cosplay trait in itself is annoying, and cosplaying as Oden, one of the worst characters in the Manga, is plain insufferable. A shame cause visually Yamato is amazing
There is a chance that Oda does both, even if the audience feel it's annoying. If that becomes true, I see him treating Yamato like most nakama. Adding onto them, so they aren't one dimensional.
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There is a chance that Oda does both, even if the audience feel it's annoying. If that becomes true, I see him treating Yamato like most nakama. Adding onto them, so they aren't one dimensional.
Yamato joining as Oden is one of two possibilities right now that would seriously make my interest in One Piece drop, the other being Oda pulling a repeat of Ace/Marineford with Sabo.
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Yamato joining as Oden is one of two possibilities right now that would seriously make my interest in One Piece drop, the other being Oda pulling a repeat of Ace/Marineford with Sabo.
I think Sabo gets something different, but ultimately the same purpose as Ace to serve for Luffy.
I can see why I am Oden would bother many.
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I think Sabo gets something different, but ultimately the same purpose as Ace to serve for Luffy.
I can see why I am Oden would bother many.
While not a message I think has been particularly emphasized on in the manga, I recall Oda mentioning in an SBS that he always tries to stay true to himself, in that you should be yourself in going along with your own values as opposed to the values of others, as if to cave in to someone’s expectation, so maybe this is his chance to emphasize on that mindset full-force with Yamato.
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The whole Yamato needs to drop the Oden idolizing shtick in order to join or at all as a character in order to grow seems to be something totally fan generated. Might be even a western fan thing cuz I never ger that sort of feedback from friends who are fans living in Japan.
Not sure anything in the story is pointing to Yamato dropping that. Especially when he has admitted other characters like Luffy can be more "Oden" than him.
Really seems Oda is just going to continue that as a quirky character trait no different than Sanji's swooning, Brook panty and bone/dead jokes, and Chopper's insult you shyness.
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I can easily see Yamato further in the story stop for a moment to think to "what Oden would've done in that same situation" and then start rampaging "the Oden way".
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@Zik:
The whole Yamato needs to drop the Oden idolizing shtick in order to join or at all as a character in order to grow seems to be something totally fan generated. Might be even a western fan thing cuz I never ger that sort of feedback from friends who are fans living in Japan.
Not sure anything in the story is pointing to Yamato dropping that. Especially when he has admitted other characters like Luffy can be more "Oden" than him.
Really seems Oda is just going to continue that as a quirky character trait no different than Sanji's swooning, Brook panty and bone/dead jokes, and Chopper's insult you shyness.
The reason why it's such a terrible trait is that it's just not believable. Yamatos worship of Oden goes much further than Laws reverence for Corazon whom Law basically lived with and who sacrificed himself in order to save Laws life AND soul.
YAMATO AND ODEN NEVER EVEN MET!!!
Sorry, but it's forced and I don't buy it. It's just another way for Oda to enforce the idea that Oden is like, really super duper awesome and Chad. As if he wasn't already overhyped enough.
That being said, the idea of Kaido having a rebellious kid who looks up to Oden is in itself pretty appealing. It's just taken way too far to the point where it's beyond credible and relatable.
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The reason why it's such a terrible trait is that it's just not believable. Yamatos worship of Oden goes much further than Laws reverence for Corazon whom Law basically lived with and who sacrificed himself in order to save Laws life AND soul.
YAMATO AND ODEN NEVER EVEN MET!!!
Sorry, but it's forced and I don't buy it. It's just another way for Oda to enforce the idea that Oden is like, really super duper awesome and Chad. As if he wasn't already overhyped enough.
Well, Law wasn’t constantly trapped in one place for more than 20 years of his life under constant antagonism from someone he was unable to overcome. You just have to wonder if Yamato clung onto the hope of carrying on Oden’s will as an attempt to escape negative feelings, similar to Brook clinging onto revisiting Laboon one day after his crew died.
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So after the latest chapter, is anyone here at least a little more inclined to feel that Yamato joining alongside Luffy and his journey makes sense for the story?
It does make a lot of sense. Yamato herself claimed that she will join Luffy, I think that's a huge sign that she will become the next crewmember.
Will Yamato eventually outgrow his Oden-cosplay or is it a permanent feature of the character? For me that's the most pressing issue as I like the visual design of the character alot but hate the Oden-shtick.
I have no problem with Yamato's Oden-cosplay thingy, I find it cute and funny; but I do think she will outgrown it as I see it as part of character growth. To me, she be finally accepting that she is Yamato and not Oden. And I'm sure we get many sexy outfits from her after she joins like with Nami and Robin, I doubt she will wear the Oden-like outfit for the rest of the manga.
It is similar to how Robin wanted to live instead of dying, Nami wanting to join the Strawhats even though they are pirates, etc. Like they outgrown certain traits like Robin being anti-social with the crew or Nami hating pirates. It be the same with Yamato to be honest.
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The reason why it's such a terrible trait is that it's just not believable. Yamatos worship of Oden goes much further than Laws reverence for Corazon whom Law basically lived with and who sacrificed himself in order to save Laws life AND soul.
YAMATO AND ODEN NEVER EVEN MET!!!
Sorry, but it's forced and I don't buy it. It's just another way for Oda to enforce the idea that Oden is like, really super duper awesome and Chad. As if he wasn't already overhyped enough.
Well that's exactly why I wouldn't compare Yamato and Oden. Law is pretty much every past character that had a mentor that died.
Yamato is like a Lady Gaga fan. Never met, in love with the person, worships them, tries to be like them. Yamato's more severe in that he saw Oden once in probably his most heroic, noble, striking defining moment.
At best you could compare Yamato to Wiper with his reverence for Kalgara but that has a deeper bond of culture and being of the same tribe.
To me its no big deal that Yamato is trying to be Oden and they never met. To me it'd be much weirder if Law was trying to be Corazon by dressing and talking like him or if Luffy was trying to be Shanks and cut off his arm or dyed his hair red. The reason those characters don't do that is cuz they actually met their mentors/role models. Its totally different for Yamato. As of right now, all he had was witnessing a noble sacrifice and a journal of adventures and mysteries.
After looking up what a chad is, I don't and didn't get that vibe from Oden at all so cant agree at all there.
If Oda just wants to hammer down that Oden is awesome he could've done better and just make a character that looked and acted exactly like him.
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@Zik:
The whole Yamato needs to drop the Oden idolizing shtick in order to join or at all as a character in order to grow seems to be something totally fan generated. Might be even a western fan thing cuz I never ger that sort of feedback from friends who are fans living in Japan.
Not sure anything in the story is pointing to Yamato dropping that. Especially when he has admitted other characters like Luffy can be more "Oden" than him.
Really seems Oda is just going to continue that as a quirky character trait no different than Sanji's swooning, Brook panty and bone/dead jokes, and Chopper's insult you shyness.
I have two issues about his current "Oden" quirk. First, I have a hard time seeing Luffy allowing a new crew mate on the ship who pretends to be someone they aren't. So either Yamato drops it and does what Yamato would do before joining or we as readers are left believing that it's ok to be an inauthentic SH.
Secondly, if Yamato does keep the "Oden" quirk, is it one that he's going to have until the end of the series? We can be certain that Sanji will always be a perv, Zoro will always get lost, and Brook will still make skull jokes even after Luffy is PK and the series ends. Are we to believe that Yamato's quirk will still see him pretending to be Oden for the rest of his life like the other SHs and their quirks?
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@Zik:
Yamato is like a Lady Gaga fan. Never met, in love with the person, worships them, tries to be like them. Yamato's more severe in that he saw Oden once in probably his most heroic, noble, striking defining moment.
Um… Lady Gaga fans don't call themselves Lady Gaga or dress like to her or want people to think that they are Lady Gaga. With Yamato, she is just extremely obsessed about Oden to the point where it is hurting her character; she will outgrow it as part of character development. It is a quirk like how Nami hated pirates, and now she is accepting she is a pirate. It's a similar trait. It's nothing like Sanji being flirty or what not. It's two different things. After Yamato joins, I'm very sure she be in cute outfits like Nami and Robin, and not wear the same one she has now, which is further proof that the Oden thing is a way for her to accept who she is. That's how I see it anyway.
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I have two issues about his current "Oden" quirk. First, I have a hard time seeing Luffy allowing a new crew mate on the ship who pretends to be someone they aren't. So either Yamato drops it and does what Yamato would do before joining or we as readers are left believing that it's ok to be an inauthentic SH.
I agree. Yamato will drop it as she needs to be herself just like the rest of the Strawhats. That's a very good point you brought.
Secondly, if Yamato does keep the "Oden" quirk, is it one that he's going to have until the end of the series? We can be certain that Sanji will always be a perv, Zoro will always get lost, and Brook will still make skull jokes even after Luffy is PK and the series ends. Are we to believe that Yamato's quirk will still see him pretending to be Oden for the rest of his life like the other SHs and their quirks?
Yeah, it would feel very unhealthy for Yamato to keep on pretending someone she is not. Like it just doesn't feel like this is who she is.
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@Zik:
Well that's exactly why I wouldn't compare Yamato and Oden. Law is pretty much every past character that had a mentor that died.
Yamato is like a Lady Gaga fan. Never met, in love with the person, worships them, tries to be like them. Yamato's more severe in that he saw Oden once in probably his most heroic, noble, striking defining moment.
At best you could compare Yamato to Wiper with his reverence for Kalgara but that has a deeper bond of culture and being of the same tribe.
To me its no big deal that Yamato is trying to be Oden and they never met. To me it'd be much weirder if Law was trying to be Corazon by dressing and talking like him or if Luffy was trying to be Shanks and cut off his arm or dyed his hair red. The reason those characters don't do that is cuz they actually met their mentors/role models. Its totally different for Yamato. As of right now, all he had was witnessing a noble sacrifice and a journal of adventures and mysteries.
After looking up what a chad is, I don't and didn't get that vibe from Oden at all so cant agree at all there.
If Oda just wants to hammer down that Oden is awesome he could've done better and just make a character that looked and acted exactly like him.
Diehard music fans don't go around claiming to BE the their favorite artist. They might be influenced in the way they dress, but again this is a normal thing like the way Luffy wears the Strawhat as an homage to Shanks or law chose the heart as his symbol to honor Corazon.
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There are fans who surgically alter their appearance and call themselves who they are supposedly a fan of.
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Diehard music fans don't go around claiming to BE the their favorite artist. They might be influenced in the way they dress, but again this is a normal thing like the way Luffy wears the Strawhat as an homage to Shanks or law chose the heart as his symbol to honor Corazon.
I agree. Yamato's Oden thing would be Luffy claiming to be Shanks and trying to look exactly like him, but Luffy is being himself and has dreams. The same will happened with Yamato, she will become herself, etc.
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There are fans who surgically alter their appearance and call themselves who they are supposedly a fan of.
That sounds very unhealthy.
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There are fans who surgically alter their appearance and call themselves who they are supposedly a fan of.
I don't mean to sound insensitive, but those people are considered freaky by most. Something you see in a documentary and feel pity for. This goes back to the main problem, it's just not a personality trait you want to see in a Strawhat crewmate.
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YAMATO AND ODEN NEVER EVEN MET!!!
He read his journal. The rest is told in a short upcoming flashback I guess.
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I have two issues about his current "Oden" quirk.
Here's the thing, I don't really think it matters.
Like there are fans who apparently hate Brook asking women for their panties or Sanji being a pussyhound. There are tons of fans who hate that Oda rarely kills, does fake death scenes, and due to those two never really has a real threat of death in the story if it isn't a flashback.
I don't think Oda cares at all since he plays all that shit for laughs anyway (not the deaths). Same way he deals with Yamato's "I am Oden" shtick. Its usually played for laughs in a you're crazy kind of way and the rest of time its a confidence booster or statement of reaffirming some choice or stance he's making based on what he thinks Oden would do.
So pretty much you and any other fans who have a serious problem are going to have to deal with it same way you've managed to keep reading OP with other things that bother you.
First, I have a hard time seeing Luffy allowing a new crew mate on the ship who pretends to be someone they aren't.
I can see Luffy not accepting it, accepting it or not giving a single fuck. That's the kinda guy he is.
In the event he doesn't, I can see Oda having Yamato make a grand statement of "I AM YAMATO! AND I WANT TO JOIN YOU! …..cuz that's what Oden would do." and play the whole things for gags right after an assumed character developing moment.
It probably would make more sense to think of how Oda would approach this instead of trying to get in Luffy's head anyway.Cuz when it comes to strawhat character quirks, he doesnt let them die. Usopp is still scared to death along with Nami, Robin is still pretty morbid, Franky is an exhibitionist, Brook and Sanji are pervs, Chopper is naive and gullible, Luffy never changes, Zoro is Zoro, etc.
So either Yamato drops it and does what Yamato would do before joining or we as readers are left believing that it's ok to be an inauthentic SH.
Again, dont think this matters at all. Labeling a strawhat inauthentic is something you choose to do. If that's how you're choosing to deal with it, so be it. Doesn't make it true or a fact.
The way Yamato is written so far doesn't come off like he's purposely suppressing his true self to be something or someone he's not. That one moment watching him sacrifice himself and reading the journal really depicts this as Yamato falling in love with everything Oden to the point that's who he wants to be. As if a superhero like Spider-Man or Superman were real. Only other thing I'd add is I did say to you before in another discussion that there is a bit more to Yamato and the whole I am Oden schtick. Maybe a flashback will shed more light on it but from the details we do know something is slightly mentally and socially off with Yamato. I mean growing up on murder island with a bunch of murderers, just saw your dad kill the guy you look up to and are obsessed with, at some point get explosive handcuffs to keep you chained to the island, start trying to kill your father over and over, etc. There's a lot of trauma, wishful thinking, and disillusionment going on there.
Secondly, if Yamato does keep the "Oden" quirk, is it one that he's going to have until the end of the series? We can be certain that Sanji will always be a perv, Zoro will always get lost, and Brook will still make skull jokes even after Luffy is PK and the series ends. Are we to believe that Yamato's quirk will still see him pretending to be Oden for the rest of his life like the other SHs and their quirks?
Well it depends where Oda decides to let the character fall as far as character development goes.
I think we can all agree while Usopp will always be a coward at heart or on instinct by the end of the story he will become a brave warrior of the sea. There is going to be a moment (or moments) where he is shown undoubtedly doing brave things and a few of his repeat lies will become true (8000 followers). He is not going to stillbe constantly running away, scared out his mind noting that he is useless, etc.
So if Oda wants to, he could do something thematic where Yamato does lessen the I am Oden gag, have some sort of self realization and be renowned as the strawhat pirate Yamato to the extent he inspires some lonely kid to start running around yelling I AM YAMATO! Or something along those lines wherr Yamato makes a name for himself.
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@Zik:
Cuz when it comes to strawhat character quirks, he doesnt let them die. Usopp is still scared to death along with Nami, Robin is still pretty morbid, Franky is an exhibitionist, Brook and Sanji are pervs, Chopper is naive and gullible, Luffy never changes, Zoro is Zoro, etc.
Let's not forgot about Nami hated pirates and would never be a pirate… oh wait she lost that quirk when she became herself and realized she had good friends, and became a pirate anyway.
Let's not forgot how Robin was anti-social and didn't want anyone close, oh wait she lost that when she realized she is allowed to live.
These are just some examples of how characters developed over time and it be the same with Yamato. Her accepting who she is and not pretend to be someone else. Also, none of those examples are the Strawhats pretending to be their hero or mentors. So, really you can't compare them to Yamato's deal. I just think story-wise Yamato will lose it for character development, and it's already slowly happening like Robby mentioned. So, by the end of this arc, it be gone for the most part. I have no issue with it, but I do think it will go away so she can grow and become herself. I feel like the point is for her to accept who she is, and hell maybe this tie in with her dream. To be Yamato and not Oden.
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Um… Lady Gaga fans don't call themselves Lady Gaga or dress like to her or want people to think that they are Lady Gaga.
Maybe I should've said Lady Gaga fanatics to make the distinction clear. There are ppl extremely obsessed with her.
Cuz there are definitely those ppl that literally try to be and become Lady Gaga or other famous ppl.
There's a girl that's dedicated her life to becoming Kim Kardashian. Shes had the surgeries, voice training to try and do it.
With Yamato, she is just extremely obsessed about Oden to the point where it is hurting her character; she will outgrow it as part of character development.
Again, this just seems like a problem to you where you've created the solution that must happen all cuz you don't like this part of a character's personality.
Clearly Oda doesn't think the whole I am Oden thing hurts Yamato as a character and if fan polls, SBS, fan letters from Japanese is all he has to go by he definitely thinks the fans love the character as is. He has his plans they could entail Yamato moving past Oden but seeing what he's done before I could see Oda keeping it until the end of the story.
It is a quirk like how Nami hated pirates, and now she is accepting she is a pirate. It's a similar trait.
I wouldn't call that a quirk for Nami. The truth about Nami is she hated pirates cuz of Arlong, joined that pirate crew in order to free her village and sailed around east blue pretending to join other pirate crews just to rob them. She didn't hate pirates. She hated what Arlong did to her hometown and family. Saying she hated pirates was just a defense mechanism given the fact she had to join a pirate crew in hopes of freeing herself of them.
Also these two things are not alike cuz Yamato does not see being Oden as a negative like you do. Quite the opposite really. Being Oden is like the best thing you can aspire to be according to Yamato. He even comments how Luffy is more Oden than he is all stated in a positive way and almost as if he was a bit disappointed he wasn't as like Oden as Luffy was.
It's nothing like Sanji being flirty or what not. It's two different things.
I feel they're very similar cuz they're both played for gags.
That's why I compared them
After Yamato joins, I'm very sure she be in cute outfits like Nami and Robin, and not wear the same one she has now, which is further proof that the Oden thing is a way for her to accept who she is. That's how I see it anyway.
Oh wow, we definitely disagree here. Even if Yamato drops the Oden thing next chapter I don't think he will immediately want to be refered to as a she. I know a lot of fans are stuck on Yamato's Oden was a man therefore I am a man but I just straight up think he is a trans character. So I highly doubt we'll see him in dresses and cute outfits along with Nami and Robin.
There will be different outfits though. That is something Oda has done for a long while now every arc so we can expect Yamato to change from the Oden attire but I doubt it'll be clothes that Nami will have no problem putting on. Similar to how Robin took Nami's clothes after stowing away I can see Yamato taking Usopp's and Zoro's clothes to change in to.
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Diehard music fans don't go around claiming to BE the their favorite artist. They might be influenced in the way they dress, but again this is a normal thing like the way Luffy wears the Strawhat as an homage to Shanks or law chose the heart as his symbol to honor Corazon.
Well like I said to the other poster, I'm not talking about diehard music fans. This is more of a famous ppl sort of thing.
There are ppl whos seriously to want to become somebody else famous cuz they love them so much or cuz they think they love them or cuz they just think that person's life is better. I hope we're not pretending like these ppl don't exist just to say Yamato wanting to be Oden has no real world comparisons.
I already said before you can't compare Yamato to Luffy and Law. They met their mentors/role models. Yamato is a bit more like Wiper with Kalgara but on a much more extreme level. The perspective is completely different.
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Calling it a quirk and comparing it with usopps cowardice is in itself presumptions as it's not at all clear this is how Oda thinks of it. As of now it's being played more as a serious trait. Until we see it played off for comedic effectsi would hold off with comparing it to pantie requests or Sanjis nosebleed.
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That sounds very unhealthy.
Yamato grew up in a very very VERY unhealthy environment and from what we know with the wrong ppl him.
It's arguable he has the worst childhood of the strawhats beating out Robin by a bit. Cuz at least Robin got escape from ppl who would betray her until she statted betraying ppl herself. Its like what if Sanji never managed to escape Germa 66. Made all the worse cuz your dad is a ruthless pirate emperor.
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@Zik:
Maybe I should be said Lady Gaga fanatics to make the distinction clear. There are ppl extremely obsessed with her.
Cuz there are definitely those ppl that literally try to be and become Lady Gaga or other famous ppl.
There's a girl that's dedicated her life to becoming Kim Kardashian. Shes had the surgeries, voice training to try and do it.
And that is very unhealthy for their mental health and them not accepting themselves.
Again, this just seems like a problem to you where you've created the solution that must happen all cuz you don't like this part of a character's personality.
Except I don't hate it? I never said once I hate it. That's you making assumptions. I'm just observing the story and predicting what will happen next.
Clearly Oda doesn't think the whole I am Oden thing hurts Yamato as a character and if fan polls, SBS, fan letters from Japanese is all he has to go by he definitely thinks the fans love the character as is. He has his plans they could entail Yamato moving past Oden but seeing what he's done before I could see Oda keeping it until the end of the story.
I can't see Oda keeping it for the rest of the story. We never even had a direct statement from Oda thoughts on the whole Oden cosplaying thing. :blink:
I wouldn't call that a quirk for Nami. The truth about Nami is she hated pirates cuz of Arlong, joined that pirate crew in order to free her village and sailed around east blue pretending to join other pirate crews just to rob them. She didn't hate pirates. She hated what Arlong did to her hometown and family. Saying she hated pirates was just a defense mechanism given the fact she had to join a pirate crew in hopes of freeing herself of them.
Exactly. That's the same thing with Yamato, with her wanting to be Oden. Hers isn't a quirk either, it is similar to Nami. I bet Yamato is using the whole Oden thing as a coping mechanism due to how Kaido treated her.
Also these two things are not alike cuz Yamato does not see being Oden as a negative like you do. Quite the opposite really. Being Oden is like the best thing you can aspire to be according to Yamato. He even comments how Luffy is more Oden than he is all stated in a positive way and almost as if he was a bit disappointed he wasn't as like Oden as Luffy was.
Again, you misunderstood. I have no problem with Yamato's thing with wanting to be Oden. I just see it as part of character development like Nami or Robin.
@Zik:
Yamato grew up in a very very VERY unhealthy environment and from what we know with the wrong ppl him.
It's arguable he has the worst childhood of the strawhats beating out Robin by a bit. Cuz at least Robin got escape from ppl who would betray her until she statted betraying ppl herself. Its like what if Sanji never managed to escape Germa 66. Made all the worse cuz your dad is a ruthless pirate emperor.
Exactly, that's why it's crucial for her to become herself and be Yamato and not Oden. It is part of character development and not just a personality trait. You proved my point with this.
Calling it a quirk and comparing it with usopps cowardice is in itself presumptions as it's not at all clear this is how Oda thinks of it. As of now it's being played more as a serious trait. Until we see it played off for comedic effectsi would hold off with comparing it to pantie requests or Sanjis nosebleed.
I agree with this. But hell Ussop has became more courageous throughout the series too. So, even that "quirk" has been changed. Sure he still gets scared, but he's became a much stronger person mentally.
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Overlooked analogy for Yamatos Oden-thing is Zoro originally developing the Santoryu in order to honor Kuina, and pushing himself to become a swordsman using her sword in order to fulfill her dream.
Now once Zoro joins Luffy his motivations develop and we basically never hear of Kuina again. -
@Zik:
Here's the thing, I don't really think it matters.
Like there are fans who apparently hate Brook asking women for their panties or Sanji being a pussyhound. There are tons of fans who hate that Oda rarely kills, does fake death scenes, and due to those two never really has a real threat of death in the story if it isn't a flashback.
I don't think Oda cares at all since he plays all that shit for laughs anyway (not the deaths). Same way he deals with Yamato's "I am Oden" shtick. Its usually played for laughs in a you're crazy kind of way and the rest of time its a confidence booster or statement of reaffirming some choice or stance he's making based on what he thinks Oden would do.
So pretty much you and any other fans who have a serious problem are going to have to deal with it same way you've managed to keep reading OP with other things that bother you.
It matters. Every quirk that the SHs have comes from being authentic. They all have their owns thoughts, desires, and habits. None of them involve pretending to be anyone other than themselves. I can't think of any leading characters who spend their lives pretending to be someone that they aren't. Everything we've learned about Luffy and his crew makes us believe that they value people for who they are, not who they pretend to be.
I can see Luffy not accepting it, accepting it or not giving a single fuck. That's the kinda guy he is.
In the event he doesn't, I can see Oda having Yamato make a grand statement of "I AM YAMATO! AND I WANT TO JOIN YOU! …..cuz that's what Oden would do." and play the whole things for gags right after an assumed character developing moment.
It probably would make more sense to think of how Oda would approach this instead of trying to get in Luffy's head anyway.Cuz when it comes to strawhat character quirks, he doesnt let them die. Usopp is still scared to death along with Nami, Robin is still pretty morbid, Franky is an exhibitionist, Brook and Sanji are pervs, Chopper is naive and gullible, Luffy never changes, Zoro is Zoro, etc.
We must be interpreting this manga differently. To me it's mostly about the value of friendship. It's hard to be friends with someone who isn't honest about who they are or what they want. I can't see Luffy allowing someone in his crew who can't even acknowledge who they are and what they want themselves. Yamato acknowledging who he is and what he wants is the only way I can see that happening. If he never gets to that point, then I think that does effectively prevent him from joining as a crew mate. He could still sail with them like Law or Kinemon as an ally, but not as a SH.
Again, dont think this matters at all. Labeling a strawhat inauthentic is something you choose to do. If that's how you're choosing to deal with it, so be it. Doesn't make it true or a fact.
The way Yamato is written so far doesn't come off like he's purposely suppressing his true self to be something or someone he's not. That one moment watching him sacrifice himself and reading the journal really depicts this as Yamato falling in love with everything Oden to the point that's who he wants to be. As if a superhero like Spider-Man or Superman were real. Only other thing I'd add is I did say to you before in another discussion that there is a bit more to Yamato and the whole I am Oden schtick. Maybe a flashback will shed more light on it but from the details we do know something is slightly mentally and socially off with Yamato. I mean growing up on murder island with a bunch of murderers, just saw your dad kill the guy you look up to and are obsessed with, at some point get explosive handcuffs to keep you chained to the island, start trying to kill your father over and over, etc. There's a lot of trauma, wishful thinking, and disillusionment going on there.
It wouldn't make it an incorrect label based on everything that we've learned about the crew. We can see how the crew came together to help save Robin as someone who had a troubled past. The crew knew who she was and what she brought to the table. She was their friend and that was enough for them to risk their lives to save her. If Yamato wants to join, he'd need to do it as Yamato. Otherwise, we're left to believe that it's ok to be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge your own personal thoughts, wishes, or limitations. We just saw Sanji acknowledge his own personal weakness when he asked for Robin's help. If Yamato can't even acknowledge that he's not Oden and accept himself, then what are we left to think?
Well it depends where Oda decides to let the character fall as far as character development goes.
I think we can all agree while Usopp will always be a coward at heart or on instinct by the end of the story he will become a brave warrior of the sea. There is going to be a moment (or moments) where he is shown undoubtedly doing brave things and a few of his repeat lies will become true (8000 followers). He is not going to stillbe constantly running away, scared out his mind noting that he is useless, etc.
So if Oda wants to, he could do something thematic where Yamato does lessen the I am Oden gag, have some sort of self realization and be renowned as the strawhat pirate Yamato to the extent he inspires some lonely kid to start running around yelling I AM YAMATO! Or something along those lines wherr Yamato makes a name for himself.
That's the thing, though. Quirks are always there. They don't end, even when the story does. Will Luffy stop liking meat? Will Zoro still get lost? Will Franky still like cola? If this truly is a quirk like the other SH's, then he'll always be pretending to be Oden, which doesn't sound like healthy development for a main character. I agree that it could potentially lessen, but that would mean it's not a quirk, just a trait that he's working to overcome. Unfortunately, he just did the Odean thing again last chapter and hasn't shown any interest in trying to establish who he is yet. Maybe he'll get some more development in a flashback or when Luffy arrives, but for now it's still all Oden all the time.
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Let's not forgot about Nami hated pirates and would never be a pirate… oh wait she lost that quirk when she became herself and realized she had good friends, and became a pirate anyway.
Well like I said in my other reply to you that is not a quirk really.
It was a negative self defense mechanism based on her particular situation. Its not a character trait.
Let's not forgot how Robin was anti-social and didn't want anyone close, oh wait she lost that when she realized she is allowed to live.
I remember Robin's first scene on the Going Merry asking to be a strawhat being social as fuck. She easily charmed Sanji, won over Nami, then playfully corralled Chopper Luffy, and Usopp, and she got Luffy's approval from the get go. A simple statement to Zoro had him no longer press the matter. If Vivi was on the ship, Robin probably would've convinced her too in due time. I mean hell, once Vivi found out she was a strawhat she just said meh, Luffy has his reasons.
I must've missed where Robin was so anti-social that it rose to the level of being a character quirk. She was very demure to start, very morbid and morbid humor. That really hasn't changed.
These are just some examples of how characters developed over time and it be the same with Yamato. Her accepting who she is and not pretend to be someone else. Also, none of those examples are the Strawhats pretending to be their hero or mentors. So, really you can't compare them to Yamato's deal. I just think story-wise Yamato will lose it for character development, and it's already slowly happening like Robby mentioned. So, by the end of this arc, it be gone for the most part. I have no issue with it, but I do think it will go away so she can grow and become herself. I feel like the point is for her to accept who she is, and hell maybe this tie in with her dream. To be Yamato and not Oden.
The examples you gave really didn't feel compelling to me and i've been saying we really shouldn't compare Yamato's situation to the rest of the strawhats cuz they are starkly different.
Also I'm not saying Yamato will never drop the Oden shtick. I'm just saying I don't think it's the problem you think it is. There doesn't need to be some moment of Yamato realizing he really should embrace being himself cuz if we're being honest he already is. Yamato saw Oden once and saw him die then read his journal. The way Yamato acts is how he thinks Oden would. If we compare Oden in the flashback to Yamato's 30 chapters or so they're bot really the same anyway. He's not running amok through Wano, banging all the women, slaying local monsters, beating up yakuza bosses and samurais, he's not loud and obnoxious like Oden (came off that way in the anime to me yet to be seen with Yamato).
The main things Yamato and Oden have in common is yearning to leave Wano and explore the world, being really strong, being super ignorant about things naturally, wanting to save Wano from Kaido and open its borders for the dawn or w/e. Character wise Yamato and Oden are very different. Oda could've easily mailed it in and had Yamato be a carbon copy of Oden but its not that way. This is why i don't mind if the Oden gags and the Oden confidence statements stick around.
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Overlooked analogy for Yamatos Oden-thing is Zoro originally developing the Santoryu in order to honor Kuina, and pushing himself to become a swordsman using her sword in order to fulfill her dream.
Now once Zoro joins Luffy his motivations develop and we basically never hear of Kuina again.I completely forgotten about this! This is a very good analogy and why it proves that Yamato pretending to be Oden is a similar thing.
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Calling it a quirk and comparing it with usopps cowardice is in itself presumptions as it's not at all clear this is how Oda thinks of it. As of now it's being played more as a serious trait. Until we see it played off for comedic effectsi would hold off with comparing it to pantie requests or Sanjis nosebleed.
Have you not read the chapters where it was played for comedic effect?
A gag can have the character being serious while others react to it and that be the joke.
When Robin makes her morbid comments about what deadly situation her crew mates might be in and Usopp reacts on horror, that's the joke.
Brook is completely serious when he requests panties. Its why he was so disappointed when he also got men's underwear during the 2 years of training.
The nosebleed thing is more of humor in Asia but it's basically horny blys have high blood pressure and thus have nosebleeds. Therefore, horny pervs = nosebleeds and that's the gag. Sanji is genuinely reacting to sexy women that way.
They seem perfectly fine to compare to Yamato's I am Oden declarations and Shinobu and Momo recoil in horror looking at him like he's crazy. Same when Beast pirates who are more than use to Yamato saying this replying that it makes no sense.
There all gags. Doesn't matter if its a serious trait.
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@Zik:
Well like I said in my other reply to you that is not a quirk really.
It was a negative self defense mechanism based on her particular situation. Its not a character trait.
And like I mentioned before Yamato wanting to be like Oden can be a self-mechanism as well. And you even proved my point with stating how bad her past was. So, it makes sense to pretend to be Oden to hide away from the trauma.
I remember Robin's first scene on the Going Merry asking to be a strawhat being social as fuck. She easily charmed Sanji, won over Nami, then playfully corralled Chopper Luffy, and Usopp, and she got Luffy's approval from the get go. A simple statement to Zoro had him no longer press the matter. If Vivi was on the ship, Robin probably would've convinced her too in due time. I mean hell, once Vivi found out she was a strawhat she just said meh, Luffy has his reasons.
That was more manipulation than socializing though. Like what I mean by anti-social is that she felt distant from the crew before water 7. But after Water 7 she started to smile more and be herself.
The examples you gave really didn't feel compelling to me and i've been saying we really shouldn't compare Yamato's situation to the rest of the strawhats cuz they are starkly different.
So, it's not okay for me to compare? But you are comparing the Strawhats quirks to fit your narrative, and I'm trying to do the same thing, as to me it is more similar that something played for laughs.
Also I'm not saying Yamato will never drop the Oden shtick. I'm just saying I don't think it's the problem you think it is.
Again, I don't see it as a problem. I see it as more of her growing up as a character in the story.
There doesn't need to be some moment of Yamato realizing he really should embrace being himself cuz if we're being honest he already is.
But Yamato is not embracing herself at all. I don't see what you seeing, I just see her pretending to be someone she is not. And as we discussed may even be because of trauma.
@Zik:
There all gags. Doesn't matter if its a serious trait.
I mean, at some points it is for humor, but for other times it is a serious moment. That's how I seen it.
Like how she had a serious talk with Momo about it, that was not played for laughs.
Like how she told Luffy she is a man because Oden was, that was not played for laughs.
This all relates to her Oden thing. Sure there were other times were it was sorta of a gag like with Ulti. But this is more of a trait that needs character development like how I mentioned with Nami. It can be a coping mechanism like how Nami hated pirates. We just don't know exactly, but it's leading more to something important.
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And that is very unhealthy for their mental health and them not accepting themselves.
I agree but that doesn't mean these ppl don't exist. I brought them up in relation to Yamato's situation. There is an obvious comparison there.
Given that One Piece isn't a senien manga though, I'm pretty sure Oda is not going to dive in to the social and psychological ramifications of that behavior so he plays it for gags or uses it as positive reinforcement.
Not at any time is Yamato saying he is Oden viewed as a negative trait or something wrong to aspire to. At best characters reply no you're not or that doesn't make sense. Yamato addresses that and then keeps on self-identifying as Oden.
Except I don't hate it? I never said once I hate it.
I never said anything about hate or you hating it though.
I said you're making up a solution to something that isn't a problem cuz you don't like it.
That's you making assumptions. I'm just observing the story and predicting what will happen next.
Okay so you don't dislike it, you just think this is just the next step in Yamato's character development. Cool.
I just dont see it as necessary. Which is why I said its something that Oda may just keep on doing treating it as a character quirk not a character flaw.
I can't see Oda keeping it for the rest of the story.
That's okay but if he does then that'll be reality and you will see it.
We never even had a direct statement from Oda thoughts on the whole Oden cosplaying thing. :blink:
Do we need one? Did Oda ever address Sanji being a perv? Or Brook? Or any other weird idiosyncrasies other characters have? Oda doesn't need to comment on everything for us to make predictions.
Exactly. That's the same thing with Yamato, with her wanting to be Oden. Hers isn't a quirk either, it is similar to Nami. I bet Yamato is using the whole Oden thing as a coping mechanism due to how Kaido treated her.
I don't see the similarities at all. They're not the same the way I view it. One was demonstrably negative and the other is used as a positive.
The Kaido treatment and coping mechanism speculation is possible but I don't see evidence for that until the flashback.
Exactly, that's why it's crucial for her to become herself and be Yamato and not Oden. It is part of character development and not just a personality trait. You proved my point with this.
You say become herself but I'm pretty sure Yamato already is who he wants to be.
I'm not sure how Yamato arguably having the worst childhood proves your point at all. You keep saying he'll drop the Oden shtick and that'll be character development. I'm saying it's character quirk and will continue on like all other strawhat (and other characters for that matter) character quirks.
Sanji had WCI and his character development was trusting more in his crewmates to do things he couldn't (Robin vs. Black Maria). Even after almost getting married he didn't drop being a perv or swooning over Nami and Robin cuz its not going away.
I agree with this. But hell Ussop has became more courageous throughout the series too. So, even that "quirk" has been changed. Sure he still gets scared, but he's became a much stronger person mentally.
I would call it inconsistent but Oda has to find a balance between Usopp's quirk that is either a gag or instinctual character trait and his character development and goal.
He still acts cowardly but he's progressed to choosing to be in the middle of madness to help his friends. The anime actually covered some of this when Usopp tried to escape that island to go help Luffy before the 2 years message.Thing is though, Usopp's usual first reaction will always be yelling and freaking out at an enemy of anything unknown, and he'll keep having can't go to that island disease cuz for some or many they're funny Usopp gags.
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Let me put it like this: if Oda intends to keep this part of Yamato, then I would prefer it to be done as a quirk, something that's not treated too seriously by the other characters and is usually met with sighs or dismissal.
Or it can be done seriously, and be part of Yamatos character development. He grows out of it.
What I absolutely cannot accept, is Oda keeping it and portraying it in a way that's meant to be "interesting", like we are supposed to LIKE this side of Yamato and find it "moving" because it makes him complex or whatever.
I don't want any attempts at creating tense, emotional moments involving this trait. Zero "I AM KUZOKI ODEN" -tearjerkers. I will never be moved by it, because it's really stupid and Oden SUCKS and I just want to forget about him.
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It matters.
No.
I don't think you having a problem with Yamato's Oden shtick matters. If Oda sees it as a quirk and plays it for jokes that's what it is. All this stuff about Yamato being inauthentic and keeping up the gag until the end of the story is your problem. You gotta find a way to deal with that.
Every quirk that the SHs have comes from being authentic. They all have their owns thoughts, desires, and habits. None of them involve pretending to be anyone other than themselves. I can't think of any leading characters who spend their lives pretending to be someone that they aren't. Everything we've learned about Luffy and his crew makes us believe that they value people for who they are, not who they pretend to be.
This guideline of authenticity that you say the strawhats must have is something you made up. Its not real. Its not a rule. It doesn't actually exist.
I could go in to the inauthentic things Luffy and Sanji have with their mentors/role models but it doesn't matter.
We must be interpreting this manga differently.
Definitely
To me it's mostly about the value of friendship. It's hard to be friends with someone who isn't honest about who they are or what they want.
Only of you consider Yamato's Oden quirk dishonesty.
I can't see Luffy allowing someone in his crew who can't even acknowledge who they are and what they want themselves. Yamato acknowledging who he is and what he wants is the only way I can see that happening.
Again with this what you see Luffy allowing stuff.
Good luck with that.
If he never gets to that point, then I think that does effectively prevent him from joining as a crew mate. He could still sail with them like Law or Kinemon as an ally, but not as a SH.
I guess you'll be at a crossroads if Yamato doesn't drop the Oden shtick and joins the crew.
Cuz just saying what you think will happen doesn't mean its even likely to happen.
Otherwise, we're left to believe that it's ok to be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge your own personal thoughts, wishes, or limitations.[/quote)
If that's what you take away from it, thats what you take away from it.then what are we left to think?
Well YOU already said Yamato would be inauthentic and then YOU said Yamato would be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge his own wishes, personal thoughts, or limitations.
So thats what YOU would be left to think apparently.
Reading all that though makes me think you don't understand the gag about it at all.
That's the thing, though. Quirks are always there. They don't end, even when the story does. Will Luffy stop liking meat? Will Zoro still get lost? Will Franky still like cola? If this truly is a quirk like the other SH's, then he'll always be pretending to be Oden, which doesn't sound like healthy development for a main character.
Then I guess for you it wont be seen as healthy development.
Its just your take on it if it goes that way.
I agree that it could potentially lessen, but that would mean it's not a quirk, just a trait that he's working to overcome.
Thats why I compared it to Usopp.
Cuz I think even when he becomes a brave warrior of the sea he'll still have his cowardly traits. He'll probably become some mix of Buggy and himself. Believing his own hype, still recognizing when he's in too deep, prepared to run away at a moment's notice etc.
I highly doubt Usopp is gonna become a brave warrior of the sea to the point he's as cool as Sanji and Zoro or outright looming for fights and rampaging everywhere like Luffy. He's still gonna be Usopp at the end of the day.
Unfortunately, he just did the Odean thing again last chapter and hasn't shown any interest in trying to establish who he is yet.
Well like I said before to someone else. The Oden thing is either played for gags or as a positive confident declaration.
Last chap was the now predictable declaration thing that he's done at least half a dozen times by now.
Maybe he'll get some more development in a flashback or when Luffy arrives, but for now it's still all Oden all the time.
I expect a flashback so we shall see.
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Overlooked analogy for Yamatos Oden-thing is Zoro originally developing the Santoryu in order to honor Kuina, and pushing himself to become a swordsman using her sword in order to fulfill her dream.
Now once Zoro joins Luffy his motivations develop and we basically never hear of Kuina again.I completely forgotten about this! This is a very good analogy and why it proves that Yamato pretending to be Oden is a similar thing.
This is why I keep saying you cant really compare Yamato - Oden to a y of the other strawhats in that way.
We haven't heard about Bellmere, Usopp's mom, Zeff (until WCI), Saul or Olivia, Laboon or Yorki since they joined the crew. Its not a surprise we havent heard of Kuina other than the fact Tashigi looks like her and Zoro cant bring himself to fight her.
The strawhats aren't characters obsessed over their sad pasts. Their pasts motivate them.
Oden's death is not Yamato's tragic moment of his sad past. That's part of the inspiration for who he is today
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@Zik:
I never said anything about hate or you hating it though.
That's pretty ironic because you just assume you don't like it in the next line:
I said you're making up a solution to something that isn't a problem cuz you don't like it.
_>
Okay so you don't dislike it, you just think this is just the next step in Yamato's character development. Cool.
Though you finally admit I don't dislike it. I think it's cute, but I think it's for character development that's all.
Do we need one?
You are the one the mentioned that there was confirmation from Oda in this post:
@Zik:Clearly Oda doesn't think the whole I am Oden thing hurts Yamato as a character and if fan polls, SBS, fan letters from Japanese is all he has to go by he definitely thinks the fans love the character as is. He has his plans they could entail Yamato moving past Oden but seeing what he's done before I could see Oda keeping it until the end of the story.
I was just following up to what you were saying, like I want to see evidence of what you are talking about. How do you know Oda doesn't think this hurts Yamato when there was not any confirmation, yet you try to say there is? I was asking that, and you took it clearly the wrong way, and now contradict your own statement.
Anyways, I'm just gonna agree to disagree about this. You have your viewpoint and I have mine, and we just repeating ourselves, so want to move on! It was a nice discussion! o:
Either way, I be happy with whatever Oda does for the manga, I'm just prediction and analyzing the story xD
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And like I mentioned before Yamato wanting to be like Oden can be a self-mechanism as well.
Yeah and it still doesn't make sense to me
And you even proved my point with stating how bad her past was. So, it makes sense to pretend to be Oden to hide away from the trauma.
I think you have sequence of events confused.
Yamato saw Oden die and how he died and was inspired, then found his journal and read it. That's what led him down the path of I want to be Oden.
His sad childhood began right after that. He went to Kuri to try and save Toki and Momo. Kaido is the one that brought him to the capital at the time.
The whole trying to kill Kaido, escape Wano, being cuffed happened during the spam of 20 years.
Yamato's flashback will detail more like how he maintained being a good person in the first place (it wasn't cuz of Oden or his journal).
I don't see how the Oden quirk is a self defense mechanism like Nami's.
That was more manipulation than socializing though. Like what I mean by anti-social is that she felt distant from the crew before water 7. But after Water 7 she started to smile more and be herself.
She felt like a full fledged strawhat during Skypeia. That's when Oda rrally started exploring her character. She's still pretty quiet. To me she was always herself. I never saw ger as anti-social.
So, it's not okay for me to compare? But you are comparing the Strawhats quirks to fit your narrative, and I'm trying to do the same thing, as to me it is more similar that something played for laughs.
The quirks fit cuz they're just jokes.
Its not just the strawhats, if you want I'll compare Yamato's Oden quirk to Vergo's sloppy eating quirk. They're just quirks. Not that big of a deal.
The mentor/role model comparisons are bad cuz Yamato never met Oden. That's why I brought up Wiper and Kalgara as a better comparison.
You can't say oh Law never dressed up as Corazon when Law actually spent time with him, was protected by him, and died saving him.
Yamato doesn't have that kind of relationship with Oden.
Thats where the comparison falls a part.
But Yamato is not embracing herself at all. I don't see what you seeing
Okay so you don't see any sign of it.
I just see her pretending to be someone she is not. And as we discussed may even be because of trauma.
Well I guess if Oda keeps up the gag and doesn't drop it you'll just have to make sense of it in your own way instead of seeing it as that.
I mean, at some points it is for humor, but for other times it is a serious moment. That's how I seen it.
Yeah, I said its either gags or declaring he's Oden.
Other than clothing and saying it in what way is Yamato actually being like Oden?
Like how she had a serious talk with Momo about it, that was not played for laughs.
You mean when Momo recoiled in horror and though he was crazy?
Was hilarious.
Like how she told Luffy she is a man because Oden was, that was not played for laughs.
Exposition dump upon introduction and first meeting the main character.
This all relates to her Oden thing. Sure there were other times were it was sorta of a gag like with Ulti. But this is more of a trait that needs character development like how I mentioned with Nami. It can be a coping mechanism like how Nami hated pirates. We just don't know exactly, but it's leading more to something important.
All those things I mentioned were all gags.
I don't see anything in the story pointing to Yamato dropping it or any sort of unhappiness with who he thinks he is.
With Nami it was totally negative fueled by hatred and fear. That doesnt seem to be the case with Yamato at all.
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Let me put it like this: if Oda intends to keep this part of Yamato, then I would prefer it to be done as a quirk, something that's not treated too seriously by the other characters and is usually met with sighs or dismissal.
Or it can be done seriously, and be part of Yamatos character development. He grows out of it.
What I absolutely cannot accept, is Oda keeping it and portraying it in a way that's meant to be "interesting", like we are supposed to LIKE this side of Yamato and find it "moving" because it makes him complex or whatever.
I don't want any attempts at creating tense, emotional moments involving this trait. Zero "I AM KUZOKI ODEN" -tearjerkers. I will never be moved by it, because it's really stupid and Oden SUCKS and I just want to forget about him.
Seems like a quirk to me. Never seen any signs of Oda portraying it as interesting.
Still don't get the Oden hate though.
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That's pretty ironic because you just assume you don't like it in the next line:
_>
I just corrected you cuz you used the word hate. That was totally out of nowhere. I used the word dislike.
But yeah you never said you disliked it okay.
Though you finally admit I don't dislike it. I think it's cute, but I think it's for character development that's all.
I'm replying to 3 ppl on this topic. 2 dislike it. One cuz of Oden disdain and the other cuz he thinks it makes the character inauthentic and dishonest. Its cute that you think I'd really keep all your reasons straight as I reply to them.
You are the one the mentioned that there was confirmation from Oda in this post:
Nothing in that post is about getting confirmation from Oda.
I'm talking about potential feedback Oda would get. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know theres a lot of hate for Oden same way he doesn't know there's dislike for Yamato wanting to be Oden cuz what he has to go off of are all things that say the opposite of that as far as we know.
I was just following up to what you were saying, like I want to see evidence of what you are talking about. How do you know Oda doesn't think this hurts Yamato when there was not any confirmation, yet you try to say there is?
So you're saying Oda purposely wrote something to "hurt" the character of Yamato? I'm not understanding what alternatives you think are going on here.
The idea that something hurts the character is entirely fan made up based off what they don't like.
Can you explain how Oda would know based off that person's reasoning?
I was asking that, and you took it clearly the wrong way, and now contradict your own statement.
I think you got confused in what I was saying.
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I don't juts dislike it because of Oden-hate.
1. I dislike the idea of a Strawhat who is larping as someone else. It's a stupid trait in itself.
2. I don't find Yamatos obsession with Oden believable. It's random and makes no sense.
3. We have had enough of Oden. I don't want to be constantly reminded of how awesome Kuzoki Oden is, Oda failed to justify the massive pedestal Oden was placed on and we don't need ANOTHER character and especially not another Strawhat who's entire purpose is to serve as fodder for Odens greatness.