My hope is Trump implodes the party internally due to his ego making things ineffective…but worse case is Republicans conceding some of his more crazier thoughts just to allow smooth passage of laws to pass. Genuinely don’t know if it’s better or worse Trump won vs another republican candidate. At least with Trump in charge the general public will probably follow politics more closely just to see his antics than another republican candidate winning would’ve caused.
American Politics: A Brand New Day
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Oh this sucks.
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Oh well, there goes democracy...
Congrats America, great job.
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Oh well the result doesn't bode well for the new 9 stories underground US embassy in Brasilia by 2030, but I stand on the "whomever wins, everybody loses".
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Goddamned fucking genocidal pieces of shit.
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I've lost any hope Ive ever had in this countries left and right after this election. This mattered a lot to a lot of people who will suffer in this country now. Progressives have shown they're willing to destroy every gain for a "moral" protest and conservatives continue to move towards vice and hatred. I'm over having any hope that anything in the US will ever get better.
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you know i was wondering when humanity would set itself on another loop of wars before peace again but I didn't think I would be alive to find out and be this close to the starting line
its always the same shit huh? masses being divided, masses being too uneducated, masses being misinformed, the ones in power controlling and manipulating masses as easy as they take a dump. im really glad for humanity today because we sure as fuck did not change as a race since rome. I thought the access of knowledge and information meant free thinking but lo and behold its the opposite and we loop right back into where powers dictate our exact next move. Except this time we chose ignorance. -
Heard the push for yes for 36 from coworkers which given the initial read is kinda wild, and understand people wanting to say no for 32 and 33. Annoyed people would vote no for prop 6, but yeah, financially totally get it. The ripple effects seen just from minimum wages increasing in restaurant workers would deter people from wanting to increase minimum wages in CA. People here will just use it as an excuse citing inflation and increase prices for everything like they did with food. And haven’t looked into 33 enough to think CA would get better rent limiting laws if the old one was repealed, but rent’s a bitch and limit control is something I get people wanting to protect here. Assuming 6 was also chosen for financial/similar reasonings (but fundamentally disagree this one didn’t pass). Don’t get 36.
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@zeltrax225
“When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor”Boy people my age sure were naive about the impact of internet in the late 90s-early 00s and it already was showing signs of being just another media route for manufacturing consent and white supremacist anonymous meeting ground.
@zeltrax225 said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
you know i was wondering when humanity would set itself on another loop of wars before peace again but I didn't think I would be alive to find out and be this close to the starting line
The political limits of neoliberalism are making us have a do over of the 1920s, and I hate it.
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32 and 33 not passing aren't a huge deal. California's minimum wage is already rising yearly, this measure would have just accelerated it by a year. And rent control has been on the ballot for years with nothing to show for it.
I'm surprised 36 saw so much support but I guess that's due to fear-mongering. Homelessness has continued to rise and violent crime has risen as well. It's easy for police to capitalize on that.
There's no good explanation for Prop 6 not passing.
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This is genuinely apocalyptic for trans people. Me thinking strong thoughts of suicide over it really bothers me because I thought I was sorta immune to those feelings after making a plan of hope for the future to get out of an abusive transphobic household in Florida in two years to live with a fellow trans friend, but like, nope. Still major suicidal thoughts. This would have killed me for real a few years ago, and it's making me sad to think about younger trans people who don't realize things can get better for them individually, actually killing themselves over it. Also can't stop thinking about the fact that if I died, it wouldn't even be recorded as a trans death. I'm starting to feel how scary the concept of erasure can be, and wondering how many of us are dying quietly without anyone caring. I dunno. My head's messed up right now I guess.
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Well there ya go. I guess beating women is the one thing Donald Trump is good at.
I really don't know what to say. I'm as disappointed and stressed out about this as anyone and I just cannot fathom the mindset of the 71 million people who thought electing Donald Trump for a second term was a good idea. But what's done is done and we just have to move forward.
Will Trump's second administration be awful? Yes, almost certainly and I'm sure a lot of people are going to negatively impacted by it. Will it be catastrophic and lead to America becoming a fascist dictatorship? Well, I'd like to believe that's just a bunch of baseless doomsaying, but I guess one never knows.
I don't know what reassurance this might offer, but at a time like this I'd like to cite the parable of the old farmer and the horse.
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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@Nobodyman said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
Will it be catastrophic and lead to America becoming a fascist dictatorship?
I think it's a toss up for USian bourgeoisie, but i think they are more confortable with the revolving positions dance as usually both parties serve them well enough.
But I like to recommend another perceptive, from the view from the oppressed nations in the US such as Sakai points in Settlers and George Jackson in Blood in my Eye the fascist dictatorship is already a reality for them.
And I not even venturing in Palme Dutt's argument that one fascist facet is the capital takeover of state or the state centralization take over of capital to which he argues that in the economical field FDR had fascist traits. -
I suppose the only silver lining here is with Trump's increasing age, senility and obesity that nature takes its course hopefully sooner then later. As Vance definitely doesn't have the control over the cult as he does.
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So, last night at least two people came on here and, created a burner account, just to say "Hey, you guys banned me 4 years ago but now I get the last laugh neener neener, you all get to suffer!" (It was much ruder than that, I won't repeat the actual words.)
No one on the forum has thought about these people even once in four years, but their very first instinct, their very first thought is to go out of their way to harass and insult people and get revenge from four years ago. Holding an angry seething grudge this entire time, and we didn't know they existed.
Some of us just wanted the election to be over and for things to be normal and be left alone not have to think about politics again for a few years and hope things would course correct under sane leadership.
And some of us wanted nothing more than to attack their neighbors. A lot more than just some, it turns out.
That's the divide.
There's going to be debates and arguments for years about what went wrong in the campaign and how this or that happened, if Biden could have won, if Harris had just stuck with that message, if there had only been a real convention, why turnout was so much lower this time than last time, but I think there's only one real explanation at this point.
I think what they keep forgetting is that people vote on feeling, not policy. People aren’t smart.
You tell them 30,000 times that their kids are going to get their genders changed in school and they “believe” it in the sense that it tracks with something they already feel, that trans people are bad and they’re going to hurt you in some way. You can’t answer that claim by snickering and saying “come on! No one is changing your kids genders in school.” You have to play an ad about how trans people are people and you love them 30,000 times. Because you have to change their hearts about trans people so that ad is defanged.
We hear “they’re eating the dogs, they’re eating the cats” and we say “what is the matter with you!” But the people who believe it believe it in their bones. And if they can vote in secret to not be seen as dumb or racist or transphobic or misogynist? Or if they guy in charge gives them permission to be terrible? Well, here we are.
People as a whole don't want facts or solutions or plans. You can't factually pick apart a nonsense argument with science and research and expert opinions. They just want what FEELS right.
The next years are going to be very bad. Everyone that was paying attention knows exactly what kind of suffering lies ahead. And everyone else is going to find out.
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I agree, except honestly the part of "Everyone that was paying attention knows exactly what kind of suffering lies ahead. And everyone else is going to find out." I don't think a lot of people are going to find out or care. I think a lot of them will just not notice when we're being culled. Like how things have always gone. That's the scary part to me. Like the people who think trans people started fighting for their rights a few decades ago, when we've been around since the dawn of humankind. We've been successfully erased for a very long time, and though the internet and stuff has made it harder to ignore us, most people still don't really understand how bad it is because most of our suffering is still unrecorded. There's no big number to throw around, It's very complicated. And a lot of people who pretend to care don't give a damn either. It will be a "That sucks, I guess." to a lot of people who pretend to be allies. I think that's why this part you mentioned, "You have to play an ad about how trans people are people and you love them 30,000 times. Because you have to change their hearts about trans people so that ad is defanged." is the important part. But not just for our main oppressors the Republicans, a lot of others need to understand us more as well. To actually care about us instead of pretending to.
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This is a big part of why I always push for better trans representatio in fictional media. A lot of people—both trans and cis—grew up on shitty or even non-existant portrayals of being trans. When your average person thinks of a trans woman they think of fucking Buffalo Bill from The Silence of the Lambs. That's the sort of bullshit perception that we're still trying to fight off.
As a—wait for it—trans woman myself, I remember the torture of growing up as a closeted trans girl in the 1990s and 2000s. I don't want that for kids today. I don't want anyone who needs medical and social transition to be denied those things based on fearmongering from a political party that knows exactly how to stoke irrational fears. The Rublican Party knows how to do what they want to do, the Democrats do, too—and more often than not, that isn't fighting tooth-and-nail for a progressive agenda. What the Democratic Party wants is to keep inching to the right. They have continued to do this and will continue to.
Aiding the genocide in Gaza—following the indiscriminate murder of civilians with drone strikes during the Obama administration—should be more than enough proof that they cannot be trusted.
If you can trust a Republican to do whatever is necessary to harm minorities, you should be able to trust an equally powerful and united party to do the same to protect minorities. The Democratic Party will never be the latter.
She/Her
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@Robby said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
So, last night at least two people came on here and, created a burner account, just to say "Hey, you guys banned me 4 years ago but now I get the last laugh neener neener, you all get to suffer!" (It was much ruder than that, I won't repeat the actual words.)
No one on the forum has thought about these people even once in four years, but their very first instinct, their very first thought is to go out of their way to harass and insult people and get revenge from four years ago. Holding an angry seething grudge this entire time, and we didn't know they existed.
Some of us just wanted the election to be over and for things to be normal and be left alone not have to think about politics again for a few years and hope things would course correct under sane leadership.
And some of us wanted nothing more than to attack their neighbors. A lot more than just some, it turns out.
That's the divide.
That's a very good summary of the differences, I think.
Honestly, the thought that's been stuck in my head, rightly or wrongly, is the United States of America gave Donald Trump the presidency for a second time and, as far as I'm concerned, the United States of America deserves whatever happens to it as a result.
A lot of people, inside the US and out, are going to suffer needlessly for this.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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@JulieYBM
The JPDON will always welcome you Comrade Julie. -
@Robby said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
I think what they keep forgetting is that people vote on feeling, not policy. People aren’t smart.
You tell them 30,000 times that their kids are going to get their genders changed in school and they “believe” it in the sense that it tracks with something they already feel, that trans people are bad and they’re going to hurt you in some way. You can’t answer that claim by snickering and saying “come on! No one is changing your kids genders in school.” You have to play an ad about how trans people are people and you love them 30,000 times. Because you have to change their hearts about trans people so that ad is defanged.
We hear “they’re eating the dogs, they’re eating the cats” and we say “what is the matter with you!” But the people who believe it believe it in their bones. And if they can vote in secret to not be seen as dumb or racist or transphobic or misogynist? Or if they guy in charge gives them permission to be terrible? Well, here we are.
This is interesting and explains a sort of shift I've seen in how issues are discussed over the years. I used to see people discuss the logical arguments for or against a position more often.
You used an example of trans people, I saw that topic brought up less back then but to use gay people as a similar topic, I used to see people going back and forth on whether or not being gay is a choice; about how that Bible passage might've been about prostitutes, adultery, pedophilia, or any other number of things; whether marriage is inherently a religious ceremony; the broader topic of separation of church and state, etc. Somewhere in the 2010s I mostly stopped seeing that. The arguments became simpler like "love is love" or "it's a sin". It's the same with a lot of other topics.
I always wondered why that was, because I figured that the emotional arguments wouldn't work until you got through to someone logically. Ex: Being gay isn't a choice, and being trans isn't a mental illness, but even if they were, that doesn't change anything because they still deserve respect and human rights regardless. But my mindset was that someone who's against the LGBTQIA+ community wouldn't support them as long as they had those false beliefs. Afterwards if they changed their mind you could be like "Even if what you believed was true, wouldn't it still be bad to treat them like garbage, take away their rights, or commit violence against them?" And then they could have a moment of self-reflection and be like "Yeah you're right, that was pretty horrible to think that way
" But I didn't think that would work often until you got through to them with the logic first. Seeing the political climate of recent years and with the points you made in your posts, I think I had it backwards. Now I'm considering that maybe you have to connect the emotional points first and then later they can look at the logic and be able to see how it makes sense.I accept Jesus Burgess as my Lord and Savior
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There are a lot of people who don't care about doing racist things, but hate being called racist. They will participate in every aspect of rape culture, but hate that any one would name it. Those people are being coddled on the news, on every huge podcast, and by the fucking president elect. They don't want to be better people and they don't want to hear that there's anything wrong with anything they do and the actual powers that be need these idiots to stay in power. We are fucked.
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I voted for Kamala, but it's harder than ever for me to go against this. We've seen who this guy is on every level and they voted for him again. He is everything and worse than what we thought in 2016 but he won the popular and electoral. I'm ashamed to be an American and I'm certainly ashamed that he's the president again. He shouldn't have made it out of the primaries!
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@Medical-Orbit
I think a important point that needs to be made is the influence of media(reglar ones and social media) have upon creating the emotional appeal and the dumber down arguments ("A countries budget is just like a household one"), working on attention economy they have to have things in small bits simple to swallow it matters not for them if their bits are truthful or not. -
@Robby said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
I think what they keep forgetting is that people vote on feeling, not policy. People aren’t smart.
You tell them 30,000 times that their kids are going to get their genders changed in school and they “believe” it in the sense that it tracks with something they already feel, that trans people are bad and they’re going to hurt you in some way. You can’t answer that claim by snickering and saying “come on! No one is changing your kids genders in school.” You have to play an ad about how trans people are people and you love them 30,000 times. Because you have to change their hearts about trans people so that ad is defanged.
We hear “they’re eating the dogs, they’re eating the cats” and we say “what is the matter with you!” But the people who believe it believe it in their bones. And if they can vote in secret to not be seen as dumb or racist or transphobic or misogynist? Or if they guy in charge gives them permission to be terrible? Well, here we are.
You forgot buying into the lie that their candidate lost the last election because it was rigged a lie that was told in all three elections he ran in. And in the first election he went as far as starting a bi-partisan commission [record scratch] to prove he lost the popular vote in said election due to illegal voters.
Which cost millions in tax payer dollars to ultimately prove not a damn thing. Along with filing legal challenge after legal challenge in the 2nd election to prove he illegitimately lost that election which also proved nothing.
To say nothing of many of these people going on record mentioning they can’t stand listening to his grievances or know much of what he drones on about is bullshit. But yet voted for him anyway.
So yeah as mentioned these people are dumb both willingly and unwillingly and if they suffer under his policies which they will like everyone else of course much of them will blame anyone else but themselves and the guy they voted for.
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@Robby I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's one thing I have noticed is that many, many voters just don't know anything about what they're actually voting for.
Trump and the Republican party have fine-tuned their rhetoric to go after these low-information people.
It's incredibly frustrating.
These people don't know what inflation actually means and what the inflation rate is right now and has been for quite some time and how the US actually handled bringing down inflation very well in comparison to other countries.
Prices are high. We all know that. But inflation as it is, is under control. That doesn't solve our problems, but neither does the GOP talking like it's inflation right now that needs to be controlled. And these people fell for it hook line and sinker. WTF.
I heard (months ago) a pro-choice woman who was going to vote for Trump because she thought that since Roe v Wade was overturned during Biden's term, that it was Biden's fault that it happened.
I just can't even with that.
We desperately need to inform our populace, make people more educated. But... with this upcoming Trump admin and Project 2025 and stuff like that, I'm afraid I can say we are only going to get further away from that and we're probably finished.
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I'm not sure what to say other than I have never been more ashamed of my country. Or that my dad was always telling me that "this too shall pass". Something he never wanted me to forget. Kinda hard to believe in right now.
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It is hard to believe that it shall pass. It is even harder to be sure that all of us individually will make it to the other side of it if it does pass. =(
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Yeah pass like a kidney stone.
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I'm not at all surprised. I worked in an automotive factory for much of this year and some of the last. It was illuminating. I was ignorant of their ignorance.
edit: it wasn't a complete monolith, but Biden was a curse word and maga was everywhere.
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Alright, enough vibe base analysis
Just going by the numbers:
Trump 2020: 74,223,975
Trump 2024: 71,880,307
Difference: -2,343,668Biden 2020: 81,283,501
Harris 2024: 67,030,608
Difference: -14,252,893There was not a shift to the right on the voters zeitgeist, the DNC sowed a shitty campaign and reaped an electoral disaster.
All the good faith the campaign had in early days of Walz "These guys are weirdos (derogatory)" to Kamala "I'll not be like those guys (Donnie & Joe) to and endless "Will have the most lethal military in the world", "There's nothing different I would do from the previous administration", "I will have a republican in my cabinet", "Look at me campaigning with Liz Chenney and getting endorsed by her war criminal dad."
The campaign was even incapable of throw left politics crumbs like in 2020, it wanted a center to center-right campaign and people voting conservative are not going to vote for the party with 96% conservative police pledges, they are going for the party going 110% on those. As long the Democratic Party keeps chasing the other party voter base, results like this are gonna be repeated and the victories it get will be due to absolute incompetence of the Republicans in run the country as anything other as a colonial outpost.
And cut a little on the "those ignorant bums, common clay of the west" are holding us down, it kind of verges on dehumanizing language. And I say this as someone with no qualms in banning conservative parties. Y'll live in the US, a country with one - if not the one - most atomized and individualistic society. You guys can't get surprise with selfish votes or that people put their own interest first and not vote for the collective betterment.
Like, get real. As much as their is ignorant voters (both parties), there is also malicious voters (those tend to camp on GOP and Cali and NY dems).
Close echoing the ending phrase of @JulieYBM's previous post in correct. As long as you guys that vote dem, don't find a way to fix the party and shift it to center-left of the SPD variety this kind of dance of the past 8 years will keep going on until one party loses it's foot and die. -
I'm not at all surprised. I worked in an automotive factory for much of this year and some of the last. It was illuminating. I was ignorant of their ignorance.
edit: it wasn't a complete monolith, but Biden was a curse word and maga was everywhere.
What does this tell you? An automotive factory would have been the foundational piece of the Democratic voting bloc prior to the 90s and the full throated support of neoliberalism which gutted the labor movement in the US and orphaned these voters. The annoying orange came along, made immigrants and foreigners the bogeyman, and won the blue collar vote for three elections in a row. It’s no coincidence that the only person remotely able to challenge Trump in the rust belt was a guy from Scranton who had been in Washington working with unions before Clinton abandoned them.
The Democrats abandoned the working class at the top of the ticket. They paid for it.
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@cooldud I don't agree. The working class has been duped. Democrat messaging was bad and the Biden situation was unfortunate, but my experience is that people that would be otherwise decent have given in to hatred and done so pretty easily. Other slurs in my plant were too dirty to say here and the guys in general were anti POC and LGBTQ.
The unspoken truth about many working class people is that they are individualistic to the point of being selfish and want things to be simple. They don't want to believe that they have moral failures because they go to church and hate the right people. I say this knowing that many of these guys are "decent" with a lowercase d. I think it's really complex, but I don't know how the left talks to them if they see a banana and call it an ostrich.
That's not to say that democrats did even a halfway decent job of doing that, but I'm not convinced that any leftist can get that demographic.
This is aside from thoughts about the missing 15 million plus and what separated them from Kamala.
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
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I make this statement under the assumption that Trump could not and will not appeal or override the 22nd Amendment.
So obviously I'm dreading whatever policies Trump and his entourage are going to enact once they get into office. But really, I'm just so sick of Trump in general.
From 2016-2020 we were hearing from or about him basically every day. From 2021-2023 we heard about him occasionally and he was still in the back of our minds as to whether or not he would run again. And now we have suffer four more years of this agonizing asshole.
That's 12 whole years, which is about 15% of my life, should I be so lucky. It kind of makes me wish he had won in 2020, because at least then it would all be over and we could put him behind us.
I mean, I guess my stress will subside in a day or two, hopefully, but right now I just feel like I'm at my limit with him.
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@andre said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
experience is that people that would be otherwise decent have given in to hatred and done so pretty easily. Other slurs in my plant were too dirty to say here and the guys in general were anti POC and LGBTQ.
The unspoken truth about many working class people is that they are individualistic to the point of being selfish and want things to be simple. They don't want to believe that they have moral failures because they go to church and hate the right people.Settlers by J. Sakai, go download the pdf or the physical book it will do great wonders to explain such phenomena.
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@Nobodyman said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
I make this statement under the assumption that Trump could not and will not appeal or override the 22nd Amendment.
So obviously I'm dreading whatever policies Trump and his entourage are going to enact once they get into office. But really, I'm just so sick of Trump in general.
From 2016-2020 we were hearing from or about him basically every day. From 2021-2023 we heard about him occasionally and he was still in the back of our minds as to whether or not he would run again. And now we have suffer four more years of this agonizing asshole.
That's 12 whole years, which is about 15% of my life, should I be so lucky. It kind of makes me wish he had won in 2020, because at least then it would all be over and we could put him behind us.
I mean, I guess my stress will subside in a day or two, hopefully, but right now I just feel like I'm at my limit with him.
Much of us more sensible people are.
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@pariston_hill said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
@andre said in American Politics: A Brand New Day:
experience is that people that would be otherwise decent have given in to hatred and done so pretty easily. Other slurs in my plant were too dirty to say here and the guys in general were anti POC and LGBTQ.
The unspoken truth about many working class people is that they are individualistic to the point of being selfish and want things to be simple. They don't want to believe that they have moral failures because they go to church and hate the right people.Settlers by J. Sakai, go download the pdf or the physical book it will do great wonders to explain such phenomena.
I'm currently working at my library and was hoping I could pick up the physical copy but we don't have it. I will download it, though. Thank you.
