Maju is right, it's just Mantra :ninja:
Hakuba just did not want to hit a girl thats the only reason she was not hit go watch or read it again she was all surprised !
Maju is right, it's just Mantra :ninja:
Hakuba just did not want to hit a girl thats the only reason she was not hit go watch or read it again she was all surprised !
Re: I acknowledge that's the bigger gap in their principles. If it's popular with the people there may not be a give amount the Riku dynasty could do without ticking them off. Also, I was under the impression that Colosseum battles weren't deliberately death matches until after Doffy came around. Finally, if you're using Kyros as an example, a lot of Kyros' time on the Colosseum was self-inflicted. He actually got his required wins pretty quickly. I forget the exact length but I'm sure it was less than a real life murderer would've spent in prison.
It's the principle that bothers me, not so much the specific example.
It is true that Kyros was free to go after four months, but that only comes down to his skills as a figther. If someone lesser was imprisoned, the victory could very well be impossible. It would then turned the imprisonment to be indefinite.
Not to mention that the very fact he had to fight for his freedom goes against pacifist principles.
And yes, his time imprisoned was lesser then your average sentence in case such as his, but is that actually a good thing? To be released from his imprisonment on basis of his fighting skills? Can you even imagine the consequences if that was implemented in the world at large.
There are so many things wrong with it from ethical stand-point, I can't even begin to list them all.
re: Luffy and Law, I think it's in that case King Riku has long since realized pacifism has failed. He acknowledges he failed as a king and has no intention of retaking the throne. He still doesn't condone outright slaughter of people, but whether he believed it before or not he knows now that there are times you need to fight, which Luffy and Law are doing for them.
If that was the case, Oda would not glorify the pacifism of Rikus as he did.
Glorification that reaches well into the current timeline of the arc, mind you. It isn't thing of the past; this stance has been supported quite vocally withing the present day context of the arc.
all there is in that page is luffy asking if she uses it,and the answer is "haki?",as in "we have no idea what are you talking about".
Do we really need it to be 100% stated outright that she can use Haki? Luffy's inference is enough to know she's using it, and I wouldn't expect the random gladiators to be able to tell if someone is using it. How else can we explain her amazing sense of observation, that allows her to dodge enemy moves with ease, and detect Hakuba regardless of his speed?
we saw what her training was about,even so briefly,and haki was not even MENTIONED once…even his father/master never ever gives the slightest hint that he knows what haki is.
We have no idea of knowing when she awakened the ability, though. Those flashbacks were from her childhood.
And Kyros knowing it or not is independent from Rebecca being able to use it.
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Hakuba just did not want to hit a girl thats the only reason she was not hit go watch or read it again she was all surprised !
I assume you're joking, but Hakuba had every intention of attacking her, just the same.
… Actually, how did the Fujitora prevent that?
Because the current situation is : 20 random unorganised criminals VS the kingdom of Dressrosa. Kind of like Doffy's coup d'etat 10 years ago. Not a war.
An official battle between the WG's marine and the kingdom of Dressrosa would have ended 900 years of peace.
At least that is my interpretation of this line : "I will not let it sink into war"
we saw what her training was about,even so briefly,and haki was not even MENTIONED once…even his father/master never ever gives the slightest hint that he knows what haki is.
Rayleigh said that haki is the same as "presence" or "aura" or "spirit".
When Kyros was training Rebecca (as the Soldier, of course), we had this page of flashback, where at the bottom, he says, "Human instinct is an amazing thing! Bring it out from within yourself! Believe in the 'Power of Humans'!"
That sounds an awful lot like it might just be talking about haki, to me.
Because the current situation is : 20 random unorganised criminals VS the kingdom of Dressrosa. Kind of like Doffy's coup d'etat 10 years ago. Not a war.
An official battle between the WG's marine and the kingdom of Dressrosa would have ended 900 years of peace.
At least that is my interpretation of this line : "I will not let it sink into war"
When individuals can take on armies, war as confrontation of large armed forces loses it's meaning.
I agree that it is what Fujitora probably meant. It just doesn't make any sense within the context of the series.
It does not fit all of the other philosophy of Rikus.
Why? His philosophy is not to start a war and if possible, avoid needless violence. Unless you extrapolate it to mean that he won't kill a fly, I don't see how this event contradicts his philosophy. @Verus:
Also, there does not exists a country in this world where you could get a complete acquittal for manslaugter, even if you had a reason. The context of the situation (which I did taken into account, mind you), does not suggest self-defense, but vigilantism.
You are suggesting imprisonment for the sake of imprisonment. Putting someone in jail serves the purpose of redemption. Basically, making the person regret his crime so he can live a better life once he is out. Kyros was already regretting his actions. Putting him in jail is justified, but a waste. When he can be kept away from society in the Colosseum where he can train. How many times do you want Colosseum to be called a cage to understand that it's just another Jail.(albeit with regular sports competitions which allow early acquittal) @Verus:
And yes, I think it is out of character from Riku to force a man into life of fighting to prove to him that fighting isn't bad, when he himself was unwilling to fight Doflamingo, not because he feared for the results, but because of principles.
As someone mentioned already, he didn't force him to fight for life. Plus, he was willing to fight Doflamingo. Am I the only one who saw him join the fighting tournament? What he was unwilling to do is bringing the country into a state of war. Which for example, would have happened if he didn't chose to trust Luffy to take care of Doflamingo. @Verus:
Yes, I do think he would. He has history of racism, and ruthlessness. And without the village he would not have a way to force her to do his bidding.
Comes down how much important you think Nami was to him. My guess is that he would have killed a few of the villagers as an example and left the others alive for his business.
@Galaxy:
Do we really need it to be 100% stated outright that she can use Haki? Luffy's inference is enough to know she's using it, and I wouldn't expect the random gladiators to be able to tell if someone is using it. How else can we explain her amazing sense of observation, that allows her to dodge enemy moves with ease, and detect Hakuba regardless of his speed?
We have no idea of knowing when she awakened the ability, though. Those flashbacks were from her childhood.
because it's the one thing she trained to do since childhood?
we saw what kyros taught her,and it was not haki
also,sabo clearly said she was able to SEE hakuba attack,and that page you just posted focus on her eyes..if it was due to kenbunshoku,she wouldn't need to see an attack,that's the entire point.
And Kyros knowing it or not is independent from Rebecca being able to use it.
he is the one who taught her that style of combat..if haki was essential to use it,than kyros should know it ,otherwise he taught to her daughter a style she wasn't able to put in practice in the first place @Whackadoodle:
Rayleigh said that haki is the same as "presence" or "aura" or "spirit".
When Kyros was training Rebecca (as the Soldier, of course), we had this page of flashback, where at the bottom, he says, "Human instinct is an amazing thing! Bring it out from within yourself! Believe in the 'Power of Humans'!"
That sounds an awful lot like it might just be talking about haki, to me.
that to me sounds like someone who is training someone reaction speed basing it on instincts rather than visual clue..nothing of that sounds like "spirit" or "presence"
because it's the one thing she trained to do since childhood?
we saw what kyros taught her,and it was not haki
he is the one who taught her that style of combat..if haki was essential to use it,than kyros should know it ,otherwise he taught to her daughter a style she wasn't able to put in practice in the first place
Or, he taught her how to do that style of combat, and Observation Haki enhanced it.
It's not so much an "essential" part, but moreso something that helps to improve it.
also,sabo clearly said she was able to SEE hakuba attack,and that page you just posted focus on her eyes..if it was due to kenbunshoku,she wouldn't need to see an attack,that's the entire point.
She still sensed it coming throughout the madness of Hakuba cutting everyone down though.
It's the principle that bothers me, not so much the specific example.
Ah. Then we have no disagreement. Since, cases such as Kyros are quite rare.
It is true that Kyros was free to go after four months, but that only comes down to his skills as a figther. If someone lesser was imprisoned, the victory could very well be impossible. It would then turned the imprisonment to be indefinite.
But he had already shown himself to be a good fighter when the royal guards were unable to do anything to him.
And he literally finished a Gladiator as soon as the fight began.
The feat wasn't to test Kyros's strength. But rather, to let the world see his talent and make him realize he is not unwanted in the society.
Granted, Riku's estimate was a bit off, but the people did eventually change their opinions after Kyros kept winning battles.
Not to mention that the very fact he had to fight for his freedom goes against pacifist principles.
Quite right. Although I doubt that Riku consults a book on Pacifism every time he makes a decision.
And yes, his time imprisoned was lesser then your average sentence in case such as his, but is that actually a good thing? To be released from his imprisonment on basis of his fighting skills? Can you even imagine the consequences if that was implemented in the world at large.
Now you are just exaggerating the arguement.
Has Riku been shown to do such thing to anyone but Kyros?
Kyros was a special case and that's that. No one suggested letting all criminals out if they can fight.
also,sabo clearly said she was able to SEE hakuba attack,and that page you just posted focus on her eyes..if it was due to kenbunshoku,she wouldn't need to see an attack,that's the entire point.
Now, let's be fair here. It could be something that was lost in translation. Even English native writers will frequently use "He saw it coming", even where it does not apply literaly.
Now, let's be fair here. It could be something that was lost in translation. Even English native writers will frequently use "He saw it coming", even where it does not apply literaly.
With the Viz translation, the top left bubble seems to imply it a bit further.
@Galaxy:
Or, he taught her how to do that style of combat, and Observation Haki enhanced it.
It's not so much an "essential" part, but moreso something that helps to improve it.
the only proof you have is what luffy said in that page,and that was after taking care of some fodder…that sounds to me like something essential if she had to use it even against fodders,instead of the basic reation speed she would have used if she hadn't "awakened" kenbunshoku
She still sensed it coming throughout the madness of Hakuba cutting everyone down though.
if by "sensed it" you mean she SAW it,the panel is right there,focusing on her eye
the only proof you have is what luffy said in that page,and that was after taking care of some fodder…that sounds to me like something essential if she had to use it even against fodders,instead of the basic reation speed she would have used if she hadn't "awakened" kenbunshoku
There's very little reason for Oda to write Luffy saying that then, if that isn't what's supposed to be implied.
Just like any other implied abilities in the series (See: Trebol as a Paramecia. Not outright stated, but obvious from the hints given and dialogue.)
if by "sensed it" you mean she SAW it,the panel is right there,focusing on her eye
Yes, her quick reaction and sense of Observation Haki allowed her to see it quickly enough to avoid being knocked out.
Now, let's be fair here. It could be something that was lost in translation. Even English native writers will frequently use "He saw it coming", even where it does not apply literaly.
something lost in translation is always a possibility when talking about something coming from another region and/or culture…but "saw it coming" doesn't really make much sense in that context...since it should mean "he should have predicted it"..while in this case we are talking about someone reacting about something who is already happening..so even if we try to purt that as a badly translated line..it doesn't really make sense in the context
of course the translator might just be used it in an incorrect way..but that's not much of an argument
Maju do you have a reason to think that Rebecca shouldn't be a haki user ?
I can uderstand that people fight over the classes of devil fruit. Some prefer parameccia, some prefer logia.
However I don't get why you prefer Rebecca as a hakiless character.
So it's all just guessing at this point? I wouldn't be surprised if it would be haki, she's the new world Vivi after all. Haki seems to come pre packaged with the more important characters in the new world.
Maju do you have a reason to think that Rebecca shouldn't be a haki user ?
I can uderstand that people fight over the classes of devil fruit. Some prefer parameccia, some prefer logia.
However I don't get why you prefer Rebecca as a hakiless character.
i don't prefer her with or without haki.
I just read the story,and there's no indication she uses haki
she is just damn good ad dodging things,since it's the first (and only) thing she trained her whole life
Maju do you have a reason to think that Rebecca shouldn't be a haki user ?
I can uderstand that people fight over the classes of devil fruit. Some prefer parameccia, some prefer logia.
However I don't get why you prefer Rebecca as a hakiless character.
because she is weak and annoying !!!
she is just damn good ad dodging things,since it's the first (and only) thing she trained her whole life
What does observation-haki training look like in your opinion ?
@Galaxy:
Yes, her quick reaction and sense of Observation Haki allowed her to see it quickly enough to avoid being knocked out.
She tried to completly dodge Hakuba like she dodged everyone else, it was her helmet cof cof Plot Armor cof cof what saved her.
because she is weak !!!
I can understand, but Aisa and Otohime use CoO like it's nothing. Why not Rebecca ?
What does observation-haki training look like in your opinion ?
we dont' know.
what it doesn't look like is "i'm gonna try to attack you kinda seriously otherwise you want be able to learn to dodge if people attack you seriously"
since if that was the only thing necessary,every damn character in this manga would have awakened it in the first place.
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She tried to completly dodge Hakuba like she dodged everyone else, it was her helmet cof cof Plot Armor cof cof what saved her.
there's also the possibility that she used her helmet willingfully since she instinctively understood she wouldn't be able to dodge it completely…sabo clearly said it was no dumb luck
there's also the possibility that she used her helmet willingfully since she instinctively understood she wouldn't be able to dodge it completely…sabo clearly said it was no dumb luck
There is no way she figured out the whole thing in a matter of fractions of seconds, she even looks still confused after everything is done and she wakes up, Sabo's comment was clearly refering to her KH which allowed her to saw him coming though KH does not gives you the speed to dodge everything.
I can understand, but Aisa and Otohime use CoO like it's nothing. Why not Rebecca ?
Aisa was special and i don't remember Otohime but she was nice with her special ability and all, Rebecca can't have haki it would just not be right, we haven't even seen Kyros use it so have would she know how to use it ? But Aisa could not use it for combat reason for that you have to be taught like luffy and Coby have been in the timeskip …
Aisa was special and i don't remember Otohime but she was nice with her special ability and all, Rebecca can't have haki it would just not be right, we haven't even seen Kyros use it so have would she know how to use it ? But Aisa could not use it for combat reason for that you have to be taught like luffy and Coby have been in the timeskip …
If it bothers you that X character has haki, just remember this;
KH=Haki for fodder
BH=Haki to fodderize othet BH users
HH=fodder removal
There is no way she figured out the whole thing in a matter of fractions of seconds, she even looks still confused after everything is done and she wakes up, Sabo's comment was clearly refering to her KH which allowed her to saw him coming though KH does not gives you the speed to dodge everything.
you can if you train them…several martial arts work that way..minimizing the amount pf time you make decision since you fall back to previously used patterns instead of improvising..i experimented them myself even if my not spectacular experience with some martial arts
So in the end you guys are just jealous of Rebecca HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
you can if you train them…several martial arts work that way..minimizing the amount pf time you make decision since you fall back to previously used patterns instead of improvising..i experimented them myself even if my not spectacular experience with some martial arts
Still there is really nothing pointing out Becca did any brain stuff during Hakuba's slaughtering, it all seems it was indeed plot armor.
Still there is really nothing pointing out Becca did any brain stuff during Hakuba's slaughtering, it all seems it was indeed plot armor.
im with this guy!
I'm not saying that the circumstantial things that Pica did weren't impressive, but he still failed to land a single meaningful blow on Zoro, which is what we're primarily discussing here.
True but the way I see it is like luffy hasn't been able to hit doffy with a single gear 3rd attack Pica only had big slow stone attacks that is crazy powerful and scary but to a guy that can slize a mountain it's not really the ideal power. Now had he faced a crazy fast opponent I think it's fair to say that he would at least get hit a couple of times.
True but the way I see it is like luffy hasn't been able to hit doffy with a single gear 3rd attack Pica only had big slow stone attacks that is crazy powerful and scary but to a guy that can slize a mountain it's not really the ideal power. Now had he faced a crazy fast opponent I think it's fair to say that he would at least get hit a couple of times.
It wasn't simply a bad match-up. Zoro defeated him in a single blow (contest of CoA). It hypes Zoro up nicely and fits in with the lack of truly defined limits post-TS (applying to the crew), but it's fairly obvious that the current arc is substantially less intense than Alabasta or Water 7, at least in terms of fights. I think the manga is characteristically different post-TS, so I have difficulty comparing the two portions directly, but I think it's fairly simple and uncontroversial to say that there hasn't yet been a complete set of satisfying fights (compared to Alabasta/Water 7). Obviously there will be eventually, but it's interesting that even Doflamingo (who was hyped up by "facing" Aokiji and man-handling Smoker) can't pose the necessary challenge.
She is a great Observation haki user. So much that she was able to survive Hakuba, one of the fastest characters in OP universe.
Chopper would have a hard time hitting her in smaller forms, let alone smash her in his giant slower form.
She won't outlcass him(mostly because of her stupid no attack policy), but I definitely don't see Chopper defeating someone like Rebecca.
LOL
and how would rebbeca be able to damage chopper at all? Also we have no idea if hakuba is one of the tastes characters in OP. Just bc no on could dodge is attacks doesn't mean much, those guys weren't exactly the creme de la creme. Remember when puffy fought bruno? Bruno couldn't see most of luffa's attacks so i guess he was one of the fastest guys in OP at that time too?
It wasn't simply a bad match-up. Zoro defeated him in a single blow (contest of CoA). It hypes Zoro up nicely and fits in with the lack of truly defined limits post-TS (applying to the crew), but it's fairly obvious that the current arc is substantially less intense than Alabasta or Water 7, at least in terms of fights. I think the manga is characteristically different post-TS, so I have difficulty comparing the two portions directly, but I think it's fairly simple and uncontroversial to say that there hasn't yet been a complete set of satisfying fights (compared to Alabasta/Water 7). Obviously there will be eventually, but it's interesting that even Doflamingo (who was hyped up by "facing" Aokiji and man-handling Smoker) can't pose the necessary challenge.
What? Doflamingo got his organs crushed and still luffy can't deal any damage to him.
So it's all just guessing at this point? I wouldn't be surprised if it would be haki, she's the new world Vivi after all. Haki seems to come pre packaged with the more important characters in the new world.
She needs haki if she's going to be a Straw Hat. :ninja:
@uniaka:
What? Doflamingo got his organs crushed and still luffy can't deal any damage to him.
True, but I wonder if Luffy will be on the brink of death by the end.
It wasn't simply a bad match-up. Zoro defeated him in a single blow (contest of CoA). It hypes Zoro up nicely and fits in with the lack of truly defined limits post-TS (applying to the crew), but it's fairly obvious that the current arc is substantially less intense than Alabasta or Water 7, at least in terms of fights. I think the manga is characteristically different post-TS, so I have difficulty comparing the two portions directly, but I think it's fairly simple and uncontroversial to say that there hasn't yet been a complete set of satisfying fights (compared to Alabasta/Water 7). Obviously there will be eventually, but it's interesting that even Doflamingo (who was hyped up by "facing" Aokiji and man-handling Smoker) can't pose the necessary challenge.
Doffy himself are tho tbh if you look at what he has done. His crew is another matter entirely. Still If Zoro had faced Lao G or Gladius I think there is quite a big change that he would get hit at least once. Had a hard fight? No, but gotten hit sure.
Was laws organ shredder supposed to slow down doffy? Kill him sure, but slow him down? He is no standing still duck. The guy has every right to evade if he can attacks that he feels could hurt him, gear 3rd. And despite him criticizing luffy gear 2 i remember him coughing blood to luffy's red hawk attack; that might have tickled more than in last chapter.
Doffy has been superior so far, but unless doffy can make himself stronger, argument can and will be made, luffy has not been using his best untill now.
I did not ask if you thought it possible. I asked if you would find it satysfying to read.
Hmmm it was a little satisfying to tell you the truth, but I wanted Kyros to at least cut a limb or two off of Dia.. or even off with his head. Unfortunately, Scarlet knocked him out.
Wow.
So Crocodile's top assassin who took Zoro to the absolute limit wasn't in any way strong or skilled?
You might want to rethink this one, buddy.
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Cool, I haven't read the chapters featuring The Grey Terminal in quite a while, so I was wondering if I was just forgetting Ace mentioning knowledge of Dragon.
It seems I wasn't, hooray!
He does have a good point about Mr 1. Yes at the time he was strong and skilled. But Zoro was able to land hits through the fight that could have been KO worthy.
Zoro had Mr1 in skill but not the cutting power.
In a place like the new world mr1 would be done (rhyme intended).
In a place liked the new world, he would need to be Haki dependant and use his DF offensively and skillfully at a bigger level.
Was laws organ shredder supposed to slow down doffy? Kill him sure, but slow him down? He is no standing still duck. The guy has every right to evade if he can attacks that he feels could hurt him, gear 3rd. And despite him criticizing luffy gear 2 i remember him coughing blood to luffy's red hawk attack; that might have tickled more than in last chapter.
Doffy has been superior so far, but unless doffy can make himself stronger, argument can and will be made, luffy has not been using his best untill now.
To be fair he wasn't using armament when hit by red hawk and got up pretty fast.
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/335/9/8/objection__by_gyakutenfanatic-d6wcp9z.png
Because of seriousness of the crime, he should be tried as an adult.
It was a self defense:ninja: They killed his friends.
In One Piece no ones really complains about devil fruits.
They acknowledge it and consider them strong.
(Please don't include fodder).
It's their power and if you can't beat them, you aren't strong enough. Devil fruits being unfair is really stupid.
Oh and Dofla >Croco
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Maju do you have a reason to think that Rebecca shouldn't be a haki user ?
I can uderstand that people fight over the classes of devil fruit. Some prefer parameccia, some prefer logia.
However I don't get why you prefer Rebecca as a hakiless character.
When you have one of the most hardcore person in the OP world as your father, you're bound to learn something.
Why doesnt doflamingo just do to luffy what he did to Jozu and sanji and do the parasite strings on him, is there a reason besides plot armor?
Why doesnt doflamingo just do to luffy what he did to Jozu and sanji and do the parasite strings on him, is there a reason besides plot armor?
If I have to give it a shot, Luffy can just dodge with Haki and Doflamingo knows that.
Why doesnt doflamingo just do to luffy what he did to Jozu and sanji and do the parasite strings on him, is there a reason besides plot armor?
Why didn't Luffy use his strongest moves since the beginning?
Why didn't Luffy use his strongest moves since the beginning?
hmm interesting so your saying doflamingo would use one of his strongest moves immediately vs the 3rd division commander of the whitebeard pirates and one of the top combatants from the straw hat crew but not on luffy? got it
hmm interesting so your saying doflamingo would use one of his strongest moves immediately vs the 3rd division commander of the whitebeard pirates and one of the top combatants from the straw hat crew but not on luffy? got it
Pretty much.
Main combats are something progressive, they don't go all out since the beginning for the sake of choreography.
Pretty much.
Main combats are something progressive, they don't go all out since the beginning for the sake of choreography.
It's something a lot of fighters do. You're testing your opponent to see how he reacts to things, his overall style ect. You don't usually go all out in the beginning unless you believe your chances of winning are extremely slim. If you do have a solid fantastic move, are you going to just wing it out with sheer speed? If you're good at this more likely you're going to take the time to set up a solid victory with as little chance of taking damage as possible. Big attacks generally not only leave big openings, but you've displayed all your ability and your opponent now can formulate a strategy of how to deal with you. Striking all out in the beginning is only an advantage if your opponent is unaware he is in a fight. Beyond that it's simply bad tactics.