Nintendo is doing God's work by ensuring that no one plays Phantom Hourglass ever again.
General Zelda thread
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I wonder with everybody listing their grievances with Old School Zelda, Zelda 2,Link's Awakening,TP, & SS what was the deal with Phantom Hourglass exactly?
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Stylus Controls….enuff said
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I'll be the first to say that I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and have played through both games twice. Fuck the flute in Spirit Tracks, though…
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I'll be the first to say that I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and have played through both games twice. Fuck the flute in Spirit Tracks, though…
I hated ST for the first two dungeons, then the ice place and the Anooki's appearance again made me fall in love. After finishing 14 of the current 17 Zelda titles, I can honestly say that ST is in my top 5.
Sure, there was a ton of bad shit, but it was great in my opinion.
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I can say I didn't mind either game… but they're definitely not good Zelda games by any stretch of the imagination.
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I never played Phantom Hourglass twice, because I realized that between two runthroughs I would have played a whole video game's worth of Temple of the Ocean King.
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I actually didn't mind the stylus controls for PH or ST. In fact, I liked ST overall.
For PH, the Temple of the Ocean King killed any interest I had in continuing the game. That was just…a horrible idea. Why would going to the exact same temple and doing the exact same puzzles and fighting the exact same enemies in the exact same rooms ever be fun? I heard that you can eventually shortcut a bit, but once I went back for the third (!) time, I was done.
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I liked conducting the train in Spirit Tracks and that's about it. Everything else just bored me. And I kept wishing I could control Link with the damn dpad the whole time.
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Foolio, when you said "Master Quest" is that like a hard mode of the game or something? Because that is a choice you have when you open the 3DS version.
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Master Quest is basically revamped dungeons and stuff with harder puzzles and everything else, although it also, if I recall correctly, has stuff that is deliberately designed to mess with you if you remember solutions to the puzzles in the original version of the game. To mess with people who played Master Quest on the gamecube, the 3DS version is also mirrored.
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I found that the puzzles in Master Quest were actually easier in most dungeons, and I loved that you usually obtained the dungeon item earlier than you do in the regular version (especially the Longshot in the Water Temple). Also, I'm pretty sure the GC version of Master Quest is also mirrored, not just the 3DS version.
Satsuki: In MQ, the dungeon puzzles are different, the enemies hit much harder, plus weaker enemies are replaced by stronger ones (Iron Knuckles, Stalfos and Dinolfos, oh my!), and the layout of the entire game is mirrored. Also, the gold skulltula locations in the dungeons are different. It's fantastic, and you should definitely give it a try sometime.
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I don't mind the touchscreen controls on the DS games too much, but I have an extreme hatred for the train in Spirit Tracks. Just thinking about it makes me cringe
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I'll be the first to say that I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and have played through both games twice. Fuck the flute in Spirit Tracks, though…
Haha, I remember those annoying flute sessions. I dunno, sometimes I could make through it just fine, but at other times I would wonder how blowing at you console could be so difficult. And they made your play it during the final boss. Sounded nice on paper, but it was pretty tough.
I'm not sure when, but somewhere along the line I realised that the clicking sound was supposed to be your meter. Didn't help me at all, though. Or at least, it didn't largely change the quality of my playing.
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I wonder with everybody listing their grievances with Old School Zelda, Zelda 2,Link's Awakening,TP, & SS what was the deal with Phantom Hourglass exactly?
Absolutely horrible dungeons, that one main dungeon, fairly boring locales, and butt ugly graphics.
I have no goddamn idea why the handheld Zelda's need to be in 3D, there is really zero reason they need to be in 3D.
They objectively look kind of ugly, and a million times less attractive than the carefully 2D done Minish Cap.
It's like 1996 all the fuck over again lol.
WE NEED DO 3D BECAUSE IS THING NOW, NO BIG DEAL IF LOOKS 100 TIMES LESS AESTHETICALLY PLEASING -
First time I've played Phantom Hourglass, I actually really enjoyed it, mostly because it was my first experience with a Nintendo DS and I loved its use of the stylus and other gimmicks.
The second time I've played it a few years later, I judged it as a Zelda game and figured how annoying it was that there were like 5 songs in the OST and that you had to constantly go back to that goddamn temple.
I liked Spirit Tracks a bit better if only for the fact that Zelda was USEFUL and that the story was a bit more interesting (better ost helps too)
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I found that the puzzles in Master Quest were actually easier in most dungeons, and I loved that you usually obtained the dungeon item earlier than you do in the regular version (especially the Longshot in the Water Temple). Also, I'm pretty sure the GC version of Master Quest is also mirrored, not just the 3DS version.
Satsuki: In MQ, the dungeon puzzles are different, the enemies hit much harder, plus weaker enemies are replaced by stronger ones (Iron Knuckles, Stalfos and Dinolfos, oh my!), and the layout of the entire game is mirrored. Also, the gold skulltula locations in the dungeons are different. It's fantastic, and you should definitely give it a try sometime.
So yeah, it's a Hard Mode.
I don't know if I want to play a Hard Mode. I'm having enough trouble as it is, since I seem to suck at Zelda-style fighting.
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I've got mixed feelings on Master Quest, because I thought the changes in the dungeons weren't all that cleaver with the exception of one part(that hallway in Forest Temple throwing a Skelfos mid-boss out of nowhere). Even playing it for the first time with 3 hearts, nothing seemed "harder". It's just a slightly modded OoT.
The most fun I had with it I guess was playing around with how exploitable OoT's combat was. Ganondorf's first form having almost no I-frames for stagger is like the best thing. Also learning how strong the shield stab attack was. It sort of made fighting anything in the game trivial.
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I love Master Quest because of how absurd it can be. Like the cow switches in Jabu Jabu or the pit full of dodongos in the Water Temple.
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I found that the puzzles in Master Quest were actually easier in most dungeons, and I loved that you usually obtained the dungeon item earlier than you do in the regular version (especially the Longshot in the Water Temple). Also, I'm pretty sure the GC version of Master Quest is also mirrored, not just the 3DS version.
Satsuki: In MQ, the dungeon puzzles are different, the enemies hit much harder, plus weaker enemies are replaced by stronger ones (Iron Knuckles, Stalfos and Dinolfos, oh my!), and the layout of the entire game is mirrored. Also, the gold skulltula locations in the dungeons are different. It's fantastic, and you should definitely give it a try sometime.
The original GC Master Quest only had modified dungeons. That was the only change. No mirroring, no increased damage. So it really wasn't "Hard Mode," just a dungeon mod. But for 3DS that's no longer the case. That said, the 3DS version is easier in general due to things like those big fairies you can lure out of various spots in dungeons.
I love Master Quest because of how absurd it can be. Like the cow switches in Jabu Jabu or the pit full of dodongos in the Water Temple.
Yeah, it's really absurd. It's harder in the sense that it makes you think outside the box. By which I mean shooting a cow instead of using a box. But seriously, removing sanity from the equation makes it harder because things that seem too ridiculous to normally consider are now often the answer. It also really is designed to play with your expectations as Purple Hermit said. Such as regular-game puzzle solutions actually doing nothing or something totally unexpected, or changing room order on you.
But even objectively they definitely made it harder in different ways. Like in the Fire Temple, lots of hidden or obscured torches to snipe with fire arrows (strictly speaking fire arrows aren't REQUIRED, but they make life a lot easier, so that's also a change), and cruel unbeatable fire mazes that you have to jump into from the right spot from above to traverse. The Bottom of the Well also required way, way more work and had way more traps, the Shadow Temple had increased-difficulty silver rupee collecting rooms and harder hover boot platforming and Beamos dodging. The Spirit Temple required actual back-and-forth interaction between the child version and adult version, which was cool. The Forest Temple had way more Stalfos and annoying enemies, and also had the switch that toggled hovering platforms that you had to use, plus there was a lot more toggling of the crooked hallways.
The only dungeon I'd say got easier was the Water Temple. I take it as an ironic joke that the hardest dungeon in the regular game became linear and easier. Also they made a good chunk of it totally optional (just for gold skulltulas) which added to it feeling easier if not going for 100%. Also, a lot of the dungeon skulltulas required coming back later with better gear, another change.
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Just putting it out there, I loved Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Ocean King temple sucks, but the games were fun enough. Plus it had been a couple years since Minish Cap, so a return to a 2D zelda (or technically 3D, whatever) was nice.
I've got mixed feelings on Master Quest, because I thought the changes in the dungeons weren't all that cleaver with the exception of one part(that hallway in Forest Temple throwing a Skelfos mid-boss out of nowhere). Even playing it for the first time with 3 hearts, nothing seemed "harder". It's just a slightly modded OoT.
This is my exact sentiment, and is why I don't understand why MQ is considered so grand, and a "requirement for hardcore fans". Although the cows in Jabu Jabu were so random I couldn't help but laugh out of delight.
I just got tired of it and never picked it back up, and I think a big part of it was because I didn't really feel like playing through OoT for an 8th time.
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@Mr.:
I just got tired of it and never picked it back up, and I think a big part of it was because I didn't really feel like playing through OoT for an 8th time.
lol well I mean I don't think anything is going to fix that aside from it being a brand new game entirely, and that removes any objective assessment of the new dungeons (especially if you never even played them all).
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lol well I mean I don't think anything is going to fix that aside from it being a brand new game entirely, and that removes any objective assessment of the new dungeons (especially if you never even played them all).
I'm not expecting anything to fix it, really. Mostly what I mean is that I just didn't want to go through the in-betweens all over again just to experience the newer dungeons at the time.
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@Mr.:
I'm not expecting anything to fix it, really. Mostly what I mean is that I just didn't want to go through the in-betweens all over again just to experience the newer dungeons at the time.
I know, I get it. It's a reasonable way to feel, but it doesn't make Master Quest any less great.
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Run! Run Epona! Run you damn horse! I am not losing another 50 rupees!
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I know, I get it. It's a reasonable way to feel, but it doesn't make Master Quest any less great.
Well on top of it, the dungeons I did get through just didn't seem all that clever. Just re-organized dungeons and rearranged rooms.
But I also think part of it is because as some have already mentioned, some of the puzzles were meant to trick you if you were familiar with their solution in OoT, and despite the multiple runs throughout the years, I don't remember dungeons/puzzles so the whole mindgame aspect doesn't apply. The only vivid memories of dungeons that I have are Deku Tree, Forest Temple, Water Temple… and that's about it.
lol I'm like the opposite of Hiroy: I want to get through dungeons as quick as possible, but I love to explore the world.
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Jesus christ Skyward Sword is an awful game.
The combat controls are complete and utter ass, half the other basic controls are ass backwards negative progressions from the system they had before, the "overworld" portion is completely fucked, Fi is parody she is so bad.I just turned the Wii off in the middle of my second try at the first boss not because it was hard, but a toxic combo of horrible horrible controls and incredible tedium.
"HAHA WAGGLE THE INCREDIBLY UNTRUSTWORTHY MOTION DEVICE AT MY HAND UNTIL YOU MAYBE GET LUCKY HITTING ME IN THIS REALLY CONVOLUTED BORING COMBAT MECHANIC OF ME GRABBING YOUR SWORD! HAHA! AND IF YOU GET PAST THAT YOU CAN ENJOY A SWORD FIGHT THAT WILL KILL YOU QUICKLY BECAUSE THE MOTION DEVICE IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TIME RIGHT AND ONLY PICKS UP HORIZONTAL SLICES 50% OF THE TIME"The whiplash between "Hey gamers we've made this timetested multi-generational child tested franchise brain-dead easy for no reason by literally pointing you at every "hidden" thing and having your companion scream everything at you, but don't worry! We'll make the really basic world of fighting stuff incredibly hair pullingly frustrating because of the stupid gimmick stick! Its the worst of both worlds!"
What a turd.
I'm honestly thinking of just quitting again. The only reason I don't want to is because I want to explore Skyloft more.This shit is making Twilight Princess look like a masterpiece.
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How the fuck does this even happen. It's not like this is revolutionizing anything really. It's the FIFTH installment of 3D Zelda, which they had perfected on game fucking one.
Which allowed them to try neat new ideas for the next few like creepy apocalyse time jumping game,and boat game. Twilight Princess for all it's issues really only failed in the world design aspect. The controls were perfectly fine, I didn't like the wolf (boring and time wasting gimmick) but it wasn't SO bad. The rest of the game didn't buck the established success, it just maybe got lazy on it.
This one it's like...fuck I don't even know.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
skims FAQs on fighting Ghiranhim
"To make sure he doesn't grab it, wait for him to hold his hand up and come very close, and lure it to any direction of your choice. Then slowly (but not too slowly) move your sword to the OTHER direction and then slash at him a bunch, starting with the direction opposite his hand. If you move your sword to the other side too quickly, the Wii Remote will interpret it as a slash, so be careful! "
ahahahahahahaha
FUCK YOU -
Wait till you get to fight the dudes with shock batons. When the motion plus doesn't work, they are the very definition of ass.
The couple of points for sticking around are the beautiful looking desert gimmick and the fourth dungeon, but there's still much ass in store for you before and especially after that.
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@Monkey:
I'm honestly thinking of just quitting again.
Don't follow the path of ShinigamiKing :ninja:
But yeah at least you have legitimate complaints here. The motion controls were…...blugh for me as well.
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@Monkey:
I just turned the Wii off in the middle of my second try at the first boss not because it was hard, but a toxic combo of horrible horrible controls and incredible tedium.
"HAHA WAGGLE THE INCREDIBLY UNTRUSTWORTHY MOTION DEVICE AT MY HAND UNTIL YOU MAYBE GET LUCKY HITTING ME IN THIS REALLY CONVOLUTED BORING COMBAT MECHANIC OF ME GRABBING YOUR SWORD! HAHA! AND IF YOU GET PAST THAT YOU CAN ENJOY A SWORD FIGHT THAT WILL KILL YOU QUICKLY BECAUSE THE MOTION DEVICE IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TIME RIGHT AND ONLY PICKS UP HORIZONTAL SLICES 50% OF THE TIME"Oh yeah, Ghirahim. I forgot how frustrating and tedious his fights can be (yeah, I said "fights"). He's easily the worst boss in the game. The others are….well, I'll just say more bearable.
EDIT: I dunno. It's been a while since I played Skwyard Sword, but I don't recall having too much trouble with the motion controls (not to the point of hopeless frustration). Do you have Wii Motion Plus?
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Don't follow the path of ShinigamiKing :ninja:
But yeah at least you have legitimate complaints here. The motion controls were…...blugh for me as well.
I'd be following his path if I was quitting over a fun centraltoZelda thing like the horror of sidequesting.
Gameplay is some other fucking shit.
And I can't stress enough how much I've always played Zeldas for immersive overworld/town parts.
Which aside from Skyloft this clearly has decided to drown in the bathtub for absolutely no reason.
The Faron Woods outside stuff played like a really dull Mario 64 mission.
DA DA DA DA DA DA!
✰ KIKWI'S SECRET STAR
LET'S A GO!–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh yeah, Ghirahim. I forgot how frustrating and tedious his fights can be (yeah, I said "fights"). He's easily the worst boss in the game. The others are….well, I'll just say more bearable.
What blows my mind most is that as much problem as I had with TP. I actually recall enjoying the sword fight portions a bunch.
And Wind Waker too especially. I always loved fighting the Darknuts, it was a good exciting challenge. Like when they threw three of them at you at once with the capes on?
And you had to be SUPER careful to inch around and shoot a fire arrow and not get hit, and then wade in real careful to get your strickes in to take their armor off…
Shit was super hard (and tense as hell in the pit of 100 trials thing) but REALLY invigorating. Great combat.
It was the one thing those two DEFINITELY kicked the crap out of Ocarina and Majora on.
So forecast wise, sword combat was only getting better for the series. Even with the wiimote (I've never played the gamecube version of TP).What the fuck happened?? I was even dreading fighting Skulltulas. SKULLTULAS.
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There's a legitimate mandatory collect shit quest towards the end of the game that has you going through a zone and finding what amounts to colorful dots.
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HOW FAR WE'VE COME[/hide]
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is there a romhack with just Skyloft
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I wonder what will erode to nothingness first Zeph's patience with Skyward Sword or his sanity.
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That's that shit man~
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Lemme say this on controls.
The basics? What you the player control?
Should be tight and simple as possible.
The complexity and unknowns should be what is attacking you. And you use your basic controls to deal with the oncoming complexity.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND ENTIRELY.Battling Gilrahahem or whatever was like.....he was simple and I WAS COMPLEX.
Like I was fighting the controller instead. Unbelievable. -
@Monkey:
What blows my mind most is that as much problem as I had with TP. I actually recall enjoying the sword fight portions a bunch.
And Wind Waker too especially. I always loved fighting the Darknuts, it was a good exciting challenge. Like when they threw three of them at you at once with the capes on?
And you had to be SUPER careful to inch around and shoot a fire arrow and not get hit, and then wade in real careful to get your strickes in to take their armor off…
Shit was super hard (and tense as hell in the pit of 100 trials thing) but REALLY invigorating. Great combat.
It was the one thing those two DEFINITELY kicked the crap out of Ocarina and Majora on.
So forecast wise, sword combat was only getting better for the series. Even with the wiimote (I've never played the gamecube version of TP).What the fuck happened?? I was even dreading fighting Skulltulas. SKULLTULAS.
Fire arrows? I just roll-parried constantly until it stripped their armor.
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Fire arrows? I just roll-parried constantly until it stripped their armor.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong. Or it was optional. Hell though that points out how FUN those fights were though!
There were so many variables changing.
You could pull off killing them with just the helmet gone…..sometimes they were disarmed long enough that they just started karate attacking you....you could parry or burn off the capes if they had capes....some had fucking capes and others didn't....you could lure them to hit eachother at great risk to your self...you could pick up their weapons if they dropped them...they could ALSO pick up random weapons on the floor (woe betide you if they got hold of a spear)...That's everything that makes it fun. I even liked that they had random colors and sometimes armor designs that didn't necessarily indicate different types. Just a random detail for fun.
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I can't wait to see your thoughts on the harp.
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I think this calls for some Yahtzee!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword
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As much as I like SS, I totally get why some people hate it.
Honestly, Monkey King, I would say it's not worth it for you to continue, based on your current thoughts. You can if you want, of course, but the biggest issues you had aren't exactly going to change.
Really, if you don't like the motion controls, you'll hate SS, regardless of what you think of the rest of the game.
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I personally didn't bother with skyward sword, not so much because of the controls but because it just genuinely seemed boring. That world just doesn't do it for me, it seems so bare. When the highlight of the game is Groose …
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I personally didn't bother with skyward sword, not so much because of the controls but because it just genuinely seemed boring. That world just doesn't do it for me, it seems so bare. When the highlight of the game is Groose …
Hey man, Groose is legit.
But yeah I personally didn't have any problems with the waggle controls, but if you're having problems with it now… I'd say maybe it might be good to call it quits
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It probably doesn't help that I also actively DISLIKE motion controls.
Like there are times and places where I've seen them put to good use, they were fairly seamless as well in Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy as I recall.
But fundamentally they are just completely annoying to me even at best, I don't find them remotely engaging or interesting, and they thus complicate up what was once nothing simpler than buttons and a joy stick or two.
And Zelda just doesn't need them whatsoever.
They're an awkward middleman where none should be. And Skyward Sword just RUBS it in your face. -
Yeah I mean, I personally don't mind the sword controls (worked fine enough to do a six heart challenge on hero mode), and tbh out of most wii games they actually do them pretty well compared to other games, but I definitely wouldn't mind and would probably end up preferring just going back to normal button controls, seeing as I think the final boss and maybe the sand ship mini boss really do a good and actual "sword fight" with everything else being figuring out which angle to swing your remote as opposed to well timed strikes and everything else.
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I don't remember this much suffering (other than Giharim's first fight) with the motion controls..
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It does baffle me sometimes these complaints for skyward sword. I heard mixed things about it and went into not sure what to think and I found everything near perfect. Only problem is it's linear nature and empty sky world. Also the tedious inprisoned fights.
But I found the controls perfect and required real
Skill at points. Ghirahim comes to mind although once you know the trick it's not as bad. As for the pirate captain and the lizalfos enemies they were really fun. Some bosses are alright as well, although some are garbage.The story and characters are some of the best as well. While not my favourite zelda it is definatley like number 5 for me. And I've played all the Zelda's including the game & watch zelda and the cd-I zelda
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Tedious and long tutorial segments nobody needs for example and needless filler before the dungeons. And I personally am tired of how the story is told and no voice acting.
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Tedious and long tutorial segments nobody needs for example and needless filler before the dungeons. And I personally am tired of how the story is told and no voice acting.
No, thank god for no voice acting.
Let these cartoony standards stay mute or mostly.
We don't need Sonic or Other M. -
Zelda would feel weird with voice acting. But I would be willing to give it a shot.