…he abandoned his country and his throne?
As someone from a country with long history of goverments in exile, I shall tell you that it is hardly a reason for him to be taken down from the throne.
…he abandoned his country and his throne?
As someone from a country with long history of goverments in exile, I shall tell you that it is hardly a reason for him to be taken down from the throne.
To be fair, I don't think that's really that relevant to him not deserving to be king anymore though.
If he'd abandoned his country while it was being sacked and became a baker rather than a pirate, it'd be the same thing.
True. If anything, Doula Mongo is just like Wapol, but actually successful.
His family abandoned the throne, but he managed to regain it (except with clever scheming instead of brute force).
As someone from a country with long history of goverments in exile, I shall tell you that it is hardly a reason for him to be taken down from the throne.
And becoming a pirate?
I fail to see the problem here. The earlier starts the fight, the better.
it does seem like doflamingo is cornered by 99% of dressrosa current population as well as top tier fighters from the coliseum. His 2000 fodder soldiers are not going to do anything major but get beat up. Fujitora and his army may seem like they are in his side but fujitora true intentions want to defeat doflamingo as well. All doflamingo has is his 10 or something family members. So if we got rid of the fodders from both side it will be sort of like 100 vs 10.
And becoming a pirate?
Wasn't Doffy a pirate as well? And really, until he gets a bounty, is he recognised as a pirate by the WG? That issue was always weird for me. He says he is a pirate… but is he really?
Pretty good chapter; it irks me a bit that Luffy actually ran off without uncuffing Law first, but that is his impatient personality afterall and its giving a reason for Rebecca and Bartolomeo to get into the fray, so its forgivable. That colour spread is so frickin Awesome; I love how diverse the looks of OP characters are and that you don't have to look like an Abercrombe and Finch model to be strong.
This is what happens with the forums everytime we get a mehhh chapter.
No one's using the colorspread as sign, com'on guys, I would but main's already too awsome.
Sanji is going to lose. If yonkou all had commanders it would be those two stoogers from fish men island. They may possibly be division commanders seeing as they are leading many giant ships and are in front. It's like putting MArco the Phoenix against Sanji. Or diamond jozu
Look, I said it was a possibility as another side of the coin that Sanji just might loose a fight, I may not enjoy arguing or debating, but I don't like not looking at one side of the coin. Even monsters can be defeated. Like I said, Sanji could loose or Sanji could win. He could win one fight and loose the other. He could win both fights as well and he can loose both fights. I honestly would prefer if He looses one fight and wins the other or does good, but struggles to win his fights.
Okay… here is my stance on a storytelling: Character of power and influence should never be ineffectual in the story. If they are going to be, do not include them.
…
Character of Fujitora is wasted completely by the storyline.
And I hate waste.@Daz:
Err, not really. The very first time Fujitora and Doffy met Fujitora was all "So Doffy, I've been hearing a lot of suspicious things about someone named Joker, would you know anything about that, Hmmmmmmmmm?", which is followed up by Fujitora declaring "I HATE the warlord system!" and Doflamingo attempting to kick Fujitora in the face.
Fujitora/Doflamingo conflict was very clearly being shown.Honestly, I don't see much point to Fujitoras character being in this arc at all, besides Oda needing to introduce a new Admiral to the readers.
Only, Oda couldn't have him actually do much, because then he'd just resolve the entire crisis and we'd have no plot. So to compromise, Oda made Fujitoras motives and goals extremely cryptic, and his actions inexplicable.
@Darth - Way to jump the shark here on Fujitora's presence on Dressrosa being ineffectual. Why don't you save your final critic for the end of the arc?
It's okay to be upset if your expectations aren't meant, no one's holding that against you. But it's a little presumptuous to scream bad writing because <character x="">isn't doing what you want him to do.
Daz addresses a part of the reason why Fujitora's presence was necessary.
And I address the other part in response to Daz.
@Daz - You are half-correct on Oda having to introduce one of the new admirals, and is using Dressrosa as a vehicle.
Let's start with why it had to be an admiral, and not some random VA.
We knew that Law let the details slip to Smoker, and that Smoker informed the Marines about Luffy and Law, and Doflamingo.
Why would the Marines send only a VA to deal with 2 Warlords and a well-known pirate (Straw Hat) who openly defies the Marines and WG.
If the Marines did nothing, then there'd be cries of why are the Marines ignoring something so huge happening in the OP world.
As for the conflicts, all superficial (no real build up), and if you couldn't see that, then I guess we read and interpret this story very differently.
Fujitora came to deal with Law and Luffy. Once he found out they were really in an alliance, he revokes Law's status. He tells Dof he's suspicious of his actions and behavior, but that's it.
I don't know why you find Fujitora's motives and goals so cryptic. They really shouldn't be when you look at his stance from his first appearance till now.</character>
But Wapol had no right to be king anymore. He was the one trying to regain the throne by force.
And people were already intending to have Dalton king way before Wapol returned.
Wait, was Dalton pulling a "bear" pun in there? His line sounds hilarious!
Ed: Now, to make this post a bit more thread worthy.
An admiral had to appear from the very moment both Aokiji and Law said that to deal with Dofla, Saka needed to mobilize the admirals (though in the end it was only one). One admiral + two vice-admirals + some high ranking marines (capes and stuff, you know, Marineford lvl guys) are a pretty good force to send to a potentially rebellious Shichi + Law + SH's. So, his appearance was warranted.
Of course, once an admiral's there, Oda had to create ways of writing him off - keep him occupied with something else cause 1- he's quite possibly strong enough to decimate the entire Dofla family by himself (with some effort), 2- it's not time yet for Luffy to duke it out with an admiral (though I don't think the day it finally happens is NOT far. . .), 3- the end boss is Dofla and he should be.
Honestly, questionable/vague writing aside, I think giving Fujitora a fight with freaking Fire fruit powered Sabo, 2nd in command of the Revolutionaries and strong enough without the fruit to give Burgess and Diamante a run for their money is a pretty damn good reason for writing him off. I mean, that's one glorified distraction if I ever saw one. Of course, we won't see even a single panel of that fight, not even the conclusion, not even the start, and we can't count on the anime team doing anything decent with it, but from a writing PoV, that's a good way to keep him from "doing nothing".
And agreeing with freedom here in that we're jumping to conclusions when we conclude that "Fuji is unneeded in this arc and has no purpose", when he still has a vague moral compass and reasoning that's needs clarifying (disappointingly or not) and the arc is still far from over.
Hold your horses, fellas!
I really need to study for the exams so I will keep it short: I find arguments that "it will all turn out okay in the end" rung rather hollow in my ears.
Mostly because you guys say that every time, and it doesn't.
But okay. I will safe my critique for the end of the arc. When I will turn out to be correct, because the setup is clearly pointing towards marines not having any significante role for the rest of the arc.
I still dislike Sabo fighting Fujitora though. I hate sues resolving problems. I really, really do.
Not to mention that pay off is always going to be disappointing… fight won't probably be shown in anything more then snippets, Sabo won't fall, because it's his re-introduction, Fujitora won't fall because it is his introduction, and he is a Admiral, they both gonna be basicaly written off for the rest of the arc.
And I'm really sorry, but I don't see Oda closing Fujitora's part of the story in satysfying way. I really don't.
Keep being optimistic though. Someone has to.
I really need to study for the exams so I will keep it short: I find arguments that "it will all turn out okay in the end" rung rather hollow in my ears.
Mostly because you guys say that every time, and it doesn't.
But okay. I will safe my critique for the end of the arc. When I will turn out to be correct, because the setup is clearly pointing towards marines not having any significante role for the rest of the arc.
I still dislike Sabo fighting Fujitora though. I hate sues resolving problems. I really, really do.
Not to mention that pay off is always going to be disappointing… fight won't probably be shown in anything more then snippets, Sabo won't fall, because it's his re-introduction, Fujitora won't fall because it is his introduction, and he is a Admiral, they both gonna be basicaly written off for the rest of the arc.
And I'm really sorry, but I don't see Oda closing Fujitora's part of the story in satysfying way. I really don't.
Keep being optimistic though. Someone has to.
What do you consider satisfying? Again, I'm sorry that your expectations aren't being met, but I don't find them realistic based on how the OP story has been told to date.
To expect an admiral to just curbstomp any and all characters they encounter doesn't make any sense.
There must be characters that exist in the story that can stand their ground when faced up against an admiral.
Furthermore, there has been no build up for a real conflict. Oda spent tons of chapters building towards the war between WB and the Marines.
And during that time, we got many hints of the different moral views between Sakazuki and Kuzan prior to their fight.
Sabo being a Sue is again something that is subjective. A better example of a Sue is Ivankov IMO.
Are you going to call Burgess a Sue as well when Oda uses him conveniently for plot purposes…!
What do you consider satisfying? Again, I'm sorry that your expectations aren't being met, but I don't find them realistic based on how the OP story has been told to date.
To expect an admiral to just curbstomp any and all characters they encounter doesn't make any sense.
There must be characters that exist in the story that can stand their ground when faced up against an admiral.
Furthermore, there has been no build up for a real conflict. Oda spent tons of chapters building towards the war between WB and the Marines.
And during that time, we got many hints of the different moral views between Sakazuki and Kuzan prior to their fight.Sabo being a Sue is again something that is subjective. A better example of a Sue is Ivankov IMO.
Are you going to call Burgess a Sue as well when Oda uses him conveniently for plot purposes…!
What would I consider satysfying…
Fujitora acting in any way against Doflamingo, for starters. If not, Fujitora at least taking care of some Coloseum extras.
At this point, there is not point to Fujitora to be present, other then the fact that Oda realised that he created a big enough mess to warrant his presence.
Anything to turn him away from being a non-entity, to be honest, at this point.
Ask yourself: What would be changed if Fujitora was not present at all in this arc? And the answer is: Not a bloody thing.
As for your comment about Sabo:
A young, relatively handsome, brother to a protagonist that excels him in every way, uses skills that are know in universe as being difficult to master easily, posseses an abnormal level of strenght for someone at his age, deals with problems that protagonist cannot, and does so effortlessly.
... What else do you exactly need to consider him a sue?
And if he actually stops all of those marines, even more so. At this point in the story, there isn't a single character that stopped assault of this caliber. Even Whitebeard only fought Admirals one-on-one.
I sorry Darth, but you're just ignoring the story.
Fujitora stated why he isn't going after Doflamingo. You don't have to like it, but it's been stated.
He said he thought capturing Law and Luffy would minimize civilian casualties.
From your perspective, I know you think Fujitora can just walk in finish everything with his pinky finger.
Don't get mad because the fabrics of your perfect world are now starting to unravel :ninja:
If Fujitora was not present, then Law's Warlord status would not be in question (or revoked).
And Fujitora would have no evidence to take back to Sakazuki for abolishing the Warlord System.
I'll leave you be on Sabo as a Sue.
Good luck on your exams btw.
Just stop complaining. Oda rarely leaves us with too many questions after an arc or eludes enough to satisfy. Just trust in the author and remember how much you love this story.
Anyone feeling bad for Buffalo?
The guy's neck got twisted, and he was thrown outside the palace.
Nowhere to be seen atm, not located on the map, and not one of the high rank officer is searching for him.
Also, I see Tank Lepanto is on the map. Perhaps this will prove some importance.
Just stop complaining. Oda rarely leaves us with too many questions after an arc or eludes enough to satisfy. Just trust in the author and remember how much you love this story.
And somewhere, on some other forum, fans of Bleach and Naruto are making exactly same arguments for years now.
Ahh you just can't ignore one comment on your actions of this forum. Not a single one.
Isn't it about time you get used to it now and just let them slide?
People really rarely change each others' views in such matters.
For example, I've never seen someone completely convince someone that a certain character is the strongest when someone else believes another character is more superior.
Not even with 100+ pages of powerlevel discussion.
Just let it go.
I sorry Darth, but you're just ignoring the story.
Fujitora stated why he isn't going after Doflamingo. You don't have to like it, but it's been stated.
He said he thought capturing Law and Luffy would minimize civilian casualties.
He is an idiot then? Because he said before toys were changed back and before Birdcage went up.
And you are acting as if situation remains unchanged in any way. I was okay with him not going after Doflamingo for the reasons of civilian casualties. And guess what, that argument does not work anymore.
From your perspective, I know you think Fujitora can just walk in finish everything with his pinky finger.
Don't get mad because the fabrics of your perfect world are now starting to unravel :ninja:
I'm sorry, can you not see the difference between "I want him to curbstomp everything" and "I want to him to do something of note, instead of just being there"?
_@freedom:
If Fujitora was not present, then Law's Warlord status would not be in question (or revoked).
And Fujitora would have no evidence to take back to Sakazuki for abolishing the Warlord System._
Neither of those requires Fujitora present. If those are the only reason, Bastille would've been enough.
Hell, generic marine captain nr. 6 would be enough, considering last time it was freaking Tashigi that took away title from Shichibukai.
Good luck on your exams btw.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
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Ahh you just can't ignore one comment on your actions of this forum. Not a single one.
Isn't it about time you get used to it now and just let them slide?People really rarely change each others' views in such matters.
For example, I've never seen someone completely convince someone that a certain character is the strongest when someone else believes another character is more superior.
Not even with 100+ pages of powerlevel discussion.Just let it go.
… Who are talking to? I haven't mentioned power levels in a really long time. I'm talking solely about importance to the plot.
It may be one of the reasons I get mad: People don't read my posts, and just complain about them. Hell, I've got people complaining about my posts, WHILE HAVING ME ON IGNORE.
At least put some effort into it...
Lol, I merely used power-level discussions to explain that whatever you post so much it is unlikely to change someone's views.
So I take it that you post the complaints for self-satisfaction, that's fine. But can't you post it once and leave it be?
Not post it every single day and tease that you shall post something else tomorrow, or try to come-back against every single complaint about your complaints.
Having you on ignore is kinda useless since the thread becomes all about you vs. others and its impossible to get involved in discussion without reading those posts.
Also the fact that people almost always quote you makes it all the more hard lol.
If you had ignored other people's comments about you the thread would be so much better.
I just don't see the need for you to come out shouting and defending yourself on every single thing.
Lol, I merely used power-level discussions to explain that whatever you post so much it is unlikely to change someone's views.
So I take it that you post the complaints for self-satisfaction, that's fine. But can't you post it once and leave it be?
Not post it every single day and tease that you shall post something else tomorrow, or try to come-back against every single complaint about your complaints.Having you on ignore is kinda useless since the thread becomes all about you vs. others and its impossible to get involved in discussion without reading those posts.
Also the fact that people almost always quote you makes it all the more hard lol.If you had ignored other people's comments about you the thread would be so much better.
I just don't see the need for you to come out shouting and defending yourself on every single thing.
Funny…
Why do I have to be the one to move on, when people are challenging my opinions? Nobody forces them to do so. You can just acknowledge that it's there, instead of instantly aiming at my throat. That might work as well.
Because, if you say that I'm stupid, or that my opinion is idiotic, then sorry, I'm not the kind of man that would leave that without an answer.
Sorry, the easiest thing to do: Do not write hateful responses to my comments, and there will be no thread hijacking. I only write responses to discussion.
I hope Sabo curbstomps Fujitora. Just for a laugh, but that ain't happening
When I got done reading this chapter and gazed ad the last page it clicked for me just how cool this arc is getting…very excited to see Oda healthy and honestly this arc is shaping up to be the kind of stuff long time fans have dreamed about as far as having all these huge interactions between not only major characters and forces such as CpZ Strawhats Law Dofla another cool royal family marines including mt.Fuji the revolutionarys a brother of Luffy poppin up a mad scientist and old roomy of Vegapunk CC a few amaaazing Wano samurai a broken gladiator and his daughter the brave princess add in the revolutionaries and a dash of big mom and the tournament contestants and our lord and savior jesus B showin up put a pretty cage on it credit to that screwball Dofla for puttin a cage on it wrap a bow around it and ship it to my eyes because I love it! Oh and uh is it wrong that lately Chopper Sanji Momo Broobroo and even Nami swan cross my mind lately I get sad when the strawhats (and the ship) is seperated and not a whole! Momo for next nakama!
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@Pk:
I hope Sabo curbstomps Fujitora. Just for a laugh, but that ain't happening
I honestly think Fuji will end up being an amazing charachter and will take a huge role in the events to come and I back his Blind Justice. We have allready seen signs of Luffys charm rubbin off on him, he would make a huge ally even if it's a Smoker type relationship with Luffy in some way. I think Fuji wants to blur all lines of pirates, marines, wants everyone to not hide behind titles and sides and everyone should be seen equal and acountable for their actions. Blind justice would then be possible and thats why his goals and actions have been subtle for now. He may enjoy roulette because it is a toss up of black and white, good and evil if you will. His style in this new role may be to kind of sit back and see what happens let the ball drop on white or black…good or evil then analyze the actions on both sides then act swiftly. Its not like hes picking his nose on the sidelines he is trying to keep the citizens safe durring the mayhem flowing through the chaos and panic of the country but he is now seeing an interesting link between these strawhats and the revolutionarys in the form of brotherhood; Sabo and Lucy.
He is an idiot then? Because he said before toys were changed back and before Birdcage went up.
And you are acting as if situation remains unchanged in any way. I was okay with him not going after Doflamingo for the reasons of civilian casualties. And guess what, that argument does not work anymore.
You don't even know the reason why he's doing this. Hell, no one does.
I'm sorry, can you not see the difference between "I want him to curbstomp everything" and "I want to him to do something of note, instead of just being there"?
Fighting the 2nd-in-command of the Revolutionaries isn't something of note?
Neither of those requires Fujitora present. If those are the only reason, Bastille would've been enough.
Hell, generic marine captain nr. 6 would be enough, considering last time it was freaking Tashigi that took away title from Shichibukai.
Because Bastille is totally strong enough to take down both Luffy and Law.
Or any VA for that matter.
I want to see Bepo next chapter, I want to see our favourite bear. Maybe he is with Sanji and Co. This would be a package deal, please Oda make this happen next chapter.:sad:
sabo is buying sometime to make sure fuji don't interreupt in mingo vs luffy
Seeing Sabo Stop Fuji and the rest of the marines from advancing reminded me of Ace stopping Smoker and his marines from going after the crew in Alabasta. Very Nostalgic.
I also believe it will play out the same way, a minor skirmish buying Luffy time to get to Dofla.
This was a great set up chapter that shows whats going on with everyone (except Sanji's group:sad:)
All in All feels great to have one piece back
Seeing Sabo Stop Fuji and the rest of the marines from advancing reminded me of Ace stopping Smoker and his marines from going after the crew in Alabasta. Very Nostalgic.
I also believe it will play out the same way, a minor skirmish buying Luffy time to get to Dofla.
Very reminiscent of that. I agree with you, I think it will have the same outcome. I don't believe we will see them go all out and fighting to their hearts content. It most probably will end in a draw.
Fighting the 2nd-in-command of the Revolutionaries isn't something of note?
No! Sabo is a Sue, which means he amounts to nothing. Why are you doing this to me Darth!? :sad:
As for your comment about Sabo:
A young, relatively handsome, brother to a protagonist that excels him in every way, uses skills that are know in universe as being difficult to master easily, posseses an abnormal level of strenght for someone at his age, deals with problems that protagonist cannot, and does so effortlessly.
… What else do you exactly need to consider him a sue?.
He would need to steal more spotlight. Right now, his appearances are just sporadic, with him missing through several chapters. The current plot would also need to revolve around him, which is a pretty essential Mary Sue trait.
The big brother who is better than the protagonist is a common Shonen archetype. They're there to play rival so that one day the little brother will surpass him.
so does sabo will fight fuji? or he will just stand there and talk about luffy?
He would need to steal more spotlight. Right now, his appearances are just sporadic, with him missing through several chapters. The current plot would also need to revolve around him, which is a pretty essential Mary Sue trait.
The big brother who is better than the protagonist is a common Shonen archetype. They're there to play rival so that one day the little brother will surpass him.
Well, being a Sue is highly subjective…
I still don't like him as a plot device though. I simply don't.
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You don't even know the reason why he's doing this. Hell, no one does.
… And how, pray tell, does it make it any better?
Can you even come up with the reason that doesn't sound completly callous?
Fighting the 2nd-in-command of the Revolutionaries isn't something of note?
No when I know it will amount to nothing.
Because Bastille is totally strong enough to take down both Luffy and Law.
Or any VA for that matter.
Yes.
And therefore, it would be a lot easier to justify marines not having any succes the entire arc.
Instead, we have marine Admiral. Who does nothing. He wanders around, has his fights interupted, makes nonsensical philosophical speaches that allow him to casualy ignore death of innocent civilians…
Altough knowing Oda, it will later turn out that Birdcage failed to kill anyone.
Sabo will easily win against Fujitora… Zoro held him back with ease and people speculated that they will fight again in THIS arc.
And no way Zoro is stronger as Sabo... or is he? :ninja:
Sabo will easily win against Fujitora… Zoro held him back with ease and people speculated that they will fight again in THIS arc.
And no way Zoro is stronger as Sabo... or is he? :ninja:
I think it's definite misdirection on Oda's part. We can't really have a full fight between Fuji and Sabo because neither of them can afford to lose, story wise, otherwise they lose credibility. I'm pretty sure the fight will be interrupted by Burgess or something.
I think it's definite misdirection on Oda's part. We can't really have a full fight between Fuji and Sabo because neither of them can afford to lose, story wise, otherwise they lose credibility. I'm pretty sure the fight will be interrupted by Burgess or something.
We said the same about Burgess, and look how he turned out…
Really, at this point, I wouldn't put past Oda for Fujitora to be defeated.
Not after PH and the wonderful "Every strong character gets to defeat Smoker for hype" thingy.
We said the same about Burgess, and look how he turned out…
Really, at this point, I wouldn't put past Oda for Fujitora to be defeated.
Not after PH and the wonderful "Every strong character gets to defeat Smoker for hype" thingy.
Well Burgess didn't actually lose. As in he wasn't defeated. Sabo basically absconded with the fruit after deciding to destroy the ring.
With Smoker, if I recall correctly, none of his fights really had him fighting at full potential, except arguably the first one with Law. With Law I think they were actually fairly evenly matched, but he had a misstep and Law capitalized on it greatly by plucking out his heart. With Vergo, his primary objective was to get Law's heart back, I think. He actually got in a few good hits at first. Now if he had been fighting at full force, I still think he would have lost as Vergo is stronger than him, but I think Smoker would have probably performed better. With Doffy it makes sense as to why he lost, so I won't even get into that. I don't think Fuji will be defeated cause Oda hasn't revealed the full situation with him yet.
I will concede that he was used as a plot device to hype unknown enemies, but it doesn't mean his strength and skills aren't real.
With Smoker, if I recall correctly, none of his fights really had him fighting at full potential, except arguably the first one with Law. With Law I think they were actually fairly evenly matched, but he had a misstep and Law capitalized on it greatly by plucking out his heart. With Vergo, his primary objective was to get Law's heart back, I think. He actually got in a few good hits at first. Now if he had been fighting at full force, I still think he would have lost as Vergo is stronger than him, but I think Smoker would have probably performed better. With Doffy it makes sense as to why he lost, so I won't even get into that. I don't think Fuji will be defeated cause Oda hasn't revealed the full situation with him yet.
I will concede that he was used as a plot device to hype unknown enemies, but it doesn't mean his strength and skills aren't real.
You forgot about him being beaten by Ceasar.
All of those would be fine, if he actually did something. His greatest achievement during that arc is getting Law's heart back, so that he can beat up Vergo.
And now we have him, with four loses during one arc, that wasn't even that long. Really, at this point him being strong is more of a informed ability then anything else.
I dunno, I want Fujitora to amount to something, but at this point, I can't really say he will.
You forgot about him being beaten by Ceasar.
All of those would be fine, if he actually did something. His greatest achievement during that arc is getting Law's heart back, so that he can beat up Vergo.
And now we have him, with four loses during one arc, that wasn't even that long. Really, at this point him being strong is more of a informed ability then anything else.
I dunno, I want Fujitora to amount to something, but at this point, I can't really say he will.
But if he defeated Caesar while in someone else's (much weaker) body, when the main protagonist couldn't, wouldn't he be just as much of a sue as Sabo?
You forgot about him being beaten by Ceasar.
All of those would be fine, if he actually did something. His greatest achievement during that arc is getting Law's heart back, so that he can beat up Vergo.
And now we have him, with four loses during one arc, that wasn't even that long. Really, at this point him being strong is more of a informed ability then anything else.
I dunno, I want Fujitora to amount to something, but at this point, I can't really say he will.
What, when Smoker lost consciousness cause of Ceaser? That doesn't count. Luffy, Tashigi, Robin, and Franky fell to the same thing. As far as "Smoker actually doing something", what could he have done? There was no way he was beating Law in their first fight due to storytelling reasons. I can see him possibly beating Vergo cause it was personal but it was handed to Law. I'm fine with this. Law didn't even really fight him, he just kind of cut him once with his sword. I blame Vergo for this more than I blame Smoker, cause despite how powerful Vergo is and how much he was built up, he was basically cast aside, and then died for some reason which I don't even fully understand. With Doffy, what did you expect?
As far as him being strong being an informed ability, I can't say I agree with you there. I only consider him to have two fights on Punk Hazard as it is. Out of those, I don't even know if I consider either of them to be legitimate losses. You could argue Law taking his heart was analogous to defeat, so I can concede his loss with Law, but not with Vergo. If you re-read the fights, you will see that Smoker was actually doing pretty well against Law and Vergo the first time around. With Vergo as I said his goal wasn't even to beat him, it was to get the heart back.
Caesar thing is unfair. He could make even the likes of admirals and yonkou faint if they're not careful/aren't aware of his ability.
So the New World IS dangerous.
We said the same about Burgess, and look how he turned out…
Really, at this point, I wouldn't put past Oda for Fujitora to be defeated.
Not after PH and the wonderful "Every strong character gets to defeat Smoker for hype" thingy.
What…didn't actually lose a fight and is probably going to reappear and clean house soon?
So the New World IS dangerous.
Well, yes. But I think people have an issue with the NW not being as dangerous as it seems to appear. We had already seen the crazy kind of weather conditions (lightning rain, gravity balls, walking on air) that the New World has. Even the new log pose seems to suggest that. The problem is that they ended up going to Punk Hazard first instead of any of the other crazy islands. After that they got sucked into Law's plan with Doffy and Ceaser, and are now on Dressrosa. They haven't actually been able to explore any of the dangerous aspects of the New World, but that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. They just haven't gone to those crazy islands yet.
Rob, when will I become a Discovered Stowaway? I want to be able to post threads soon ;___;
We had already seen the crazy kind of weather conditions (lightning rain, gravity balls, walking on air) that the New World has. Even the new log pose seems to suggest that. The problem is that they ended up going to Punk Hazard first instead of any of the other crazy islands. After that they got sucked into Law's plan with Doffy and Ceaser, and are now on Dressrosa. They haven't actually been able to explore any of the dangerous aspects of the New World, but that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. They just haven't gone to those crazy islands yet.
Well I'm actually on the "Punk Hazard is dangerous" side.
Well I'm actually on the "Punk Hazard is dangerous" side.
Well I agree that Punk Hazard was dangerous, but it wasn't due to the NW being inherently dangerous. It was made like that cause of the admirals. Speaking of which, it's so cool how Aokiji's/Akainu's fight permanently transformed the island's climate. We didn't get to see them fight, which naturally would have been amazing, but since we see the crazy aftermath of the fight, we still get a taste of what happened. In a way, it's almost better to see the extensive damage the fight caused, rather than the fight itself.
Well I agree that Punk Hazard was dangerous, but it wasn't due to the NW being inherently dangerous. It was made like that cause of the admirals. Speaking of which, it's so cool how Aokiji's/Akainu's fight permanently transformed the island's climate. We didn't get to see them fight, which naturally would have been amazing, but since we see the crazy aftermath of the fight, we still get a taste of what happened. In a way, it's almost better to see the extensive damage the fight caused, rather than the fight itself.
Was it ever stated in the manga that the only cause of the New Worl being dangerous is the weather ?
For me it implicitly includes all kind of danger like Yonko, but also Ceasar or Shinokuni.
Was it ever stated in the manga that the only cause of the New Worl being dangerous is the weather ?
For me it implicitly includes all kind of danger like Yonko, but also Ceasar or Shinokuni.
Oh no it wasn't ever stated that the weather was the only thing, I didn't mean to imply that. It's definitely dangerous due to all the crazy powerful people gathered there as well. The weather being so crazy helps characterize the NW as an unpredictable, crazy, and dangerous place though. Ordinary abilities won't be enough to get you through it, whether you're dealing with nature or powerful enemies.
What…didn't actually lose a fight and is probably going to reappear and clean house soon?
Oh please Rob. We both know Oda has to cut corners if he ever wants to finish this arc. And if we talk about things that will probably be cut out, it's Burgess and Marines, along with Revolutionaries. The latter two will take care of each other, and all Burgess will probably is quick call to Blackbeard on Den-Den mushi as he leaves the island.
I'm all for Oda proving me wrong, but I don't think he will.
Was it ever stated in the manga that the only cause of the New Worl being dangerous is the weather ?
For me it implicitly includes all kind of danger like Yonko, but also Ceasar or Shinokuni.
Well yeah the weather is part of it, but I think it's more the fact that all the biggest, most merciless players reside there.
I mean look at Moria's reaction when he described the New World. It wasn't lightning islands or gravity balls that took his crew from him.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Rob, when will I become a Discovered Stowaway? I want to be able to post threads soon ;___;
I'm not sure what the exact condition is buddy, but it should be pretty soon anyway.
I never posted a new thread until I was here for a few months so I never really noticed.
Oh please Rob. We both know Oda has to cut corners if he ever wants to finish this arc. And if we talk about things that will probably be cut out, it's Burgess and Marines, along with Revolutionaries. The latter two will take care of each other, and all Burgess will probably is quick call to Blackbeard on Den-Den mushi as he leaves the island.
I'm all for Oda proving me wrong, but I don't think he will.
Sabo and Fuji will probably be the Rayleigh/Borsalino of this arc, yeah.
I can't see Burgess being trapped inside a huge birdcage with hundreds of people fighting each other, having just failed his mission, and not partaking in some elbow smashing violence, though.
But if he defeated Caesar while in someone else's (much weaker) body, when the main protagonist couldn't, wouldn't he be just as much of a sue as Sabo?
Yes. Yes he would. And I wouldn't like that at all, to be honest. I'm fair in my hatred of sues, if nothing else.
But… something. Anything would be nice.
Hell, defeating Vergo on his own to take revenge for his subordinates and his betrayl of the marines. Done. No reason for him to not win, except for hyping Law more, storytelling wise anyway.
Yeah and that's why I think the Punk Hazard has been a very dangerous island. Without haki, a rookie can't hope to leave this island alive.