One Piece Chapter 742 - I'll always be close to you

[kouch_lee]

@Omni:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VUTz8ROG9Xs/TlenoKU2iBI/AAAAAAAAATc/RhPsv4k2YZM/010.jpg?imgmax=3000

That shows otherwise.

That's Galdino, not Bentham.

And no, Bentham didn't get knocked out by Luffy's haki burst back at Impel Down. He succumbed to his numerous injuries.

And to the user that's making weird comparisons, it doesn't make any sense to compare a "funny face" with Haoshoku Haki, or come to the conclusion that "Usopp making a funny face is stronger than Luffy's Haoshoku Haki and thus Oda dropped the ball".

This is some extremely contrived reasoning, honestly.

[Average]

@Omni:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VUTz8ROG9Xs/TlenoKU2iBI/AAAAAAAAATc/RhPsv4k2YZM/010.jpg?imgmax=3000

That shows otherwise.

As far as the debate goes it's like comparing apples and oranges. Sugar's weakness in this case was being scared doesn't make CoC any less valuable because she was scared unconscious.

That's Galdino, not Bentham.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Torao]

@vagabond87:

http://i.imgur.com/W71D2g8.png?1?3179

I have an idea about Bartolomeos DF ability

Maybe Bartolomeos weakness is that his barrier can be penetrated when there is no impact at all in enemys punch. As it might be - more power in punch and harder response from barrier/ less power in attack and less of a response from barrier? That would nicely explain for everybody complaining why Sabo just pushed Barto aside at one time and how Bellamy grabbed Bartolomeo.

And it would also explain why he mocked Hack for example- his ability clicks with that mocking enemies somehow if I am right.

dont forget that he pressed this guy, who was mocking luffy, against a wall and locked him with his barrier in that position

[Bazoo]

@DonGalaor:

You don't get it at all.

She was defeated by a funny face which is more powerful than haoshoku haki… according to this episode.

Interesting. I was being sarcastic with my comment. But it is actually true. Luffy wouldn't be able to knock out Sugar with Haoshouku (Evidently because it is between the most important people in Donquijotes army)... BUT USSOP COULD with a funny face.

ODA really messed up this time.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Right, yeah, sure, really messed up, terrible mistake, mustn't have a laugh. And you're an adult reading a comic who seriously needs to go out for a walk and get some fresh air. You lack perspective.

[Omni]

@kouch_lee:

That's Galdino, not Bentham.

And no, Bentham didn't get knocked out by Luffy's haki burst back at Impel Down. He succumbed to his numerous injuries.

And to the user that's making weird comparisons, it doesn't make any sense to compare a "funny face" with Haoshoku Haki, or come to the conclusion that "Usopp making a funny face is stronger than Luffy's Haoshoku Haki and thus Oda dropped the ball".

This is some extremely contrived reasoning, honestly.

Got my character names mixed up and assumed they were talking about him! My appologies. Also good summary of the nonsensical debate between Scary Face vs CoC

[King Cannon]

@Luis20:

You don't know that.

Luffy knocked out Mr.3 with his haki in Marineford and he was stronger than many navy soldiers that stayed conscious. Luffy knocked down Mr.2 in Impel Down and Rayleigh didn't knock out Usopp in Sabaody. It's all about determination, like Jozu said.

No. He was knocked out by tiredness. If it was CoC, he would've been knocked out alongside the wolves, not after them.

And Usopp wasn't targeted by Rayleigh.

And Mr. 3 isn't exactly strong. He has a very powerful DF, but he's not strong outside of that.

[Phoenix Zoan]

@DarkHamster:

It was something I typed up in literally 3 minutes. It doesn't necessarily have to go that way and he doesn't need to tobasco in order to defeat her. I'm thinking this in long term b/c of the SHs are slowly facing stronger and stronger opponents and we haven't even had a chance to get a glimpse of their growth (and they're already getting beaten, albeit in odds stacked against them). I just worry about the long road since they have so much more to go, how are they are going to grow if they get owned every time and the only way they are going to win is massive massive massive amount of luck. I hope the next arc won't be the same.

The long road doesn't really matter since Ussop will still gets fights later. Tatabasaco was a big plot point in Operation SOP. Oda wasn't going to drop it and just have her get knocked out from something else. So the thing was with it ultimately was how would the Tatabasaco play out. He even set up a Sugar/Spice pun. With someone named Sugar losing due to a Spicy (Tatabasaco) substance. So if you're going to write a fanfic, the Tatabasaco has to factor into it. Considering Sugar has the Tatabasaco, Ussop sniping her with it wouldn't make sense unless somehow he got it back at some point.

[kirei_lanford]

usopp will never beat trebol at this point, at any case..
what people complaining though, is that he didn't use his other abilities, playing tricks. instead he was just lucky, according to many people.
let's just think it this way,,, the "let's frighten the kid" part is also a part of usopp's strategy. and as a proof, it works well.
usopp new there's no point in fighting trebol with strength or fighting sugar with tricks, as she seems to be a smart "kid".
usopp has stated his intention at the beginning of the plan anyway, though everyone didn't really care about it. Truth is, it worked.

[Tobi92]

It's out.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/742/page/2

[Adam Fenix]

@Bellamy_:

A Question… next chapter a new Cover Story? We had now all of the strawhats...

Vivi cover i think.

[ARTEMlS]

Dunno if it's already mentioned, but there's another similarity towards Alabasta. IIRC didn't Cobra also spy on his daughter with this kind of ninja mask?

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

Thank you Tobi92!

[Dododo]

@Tobi92:

It's out.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/742/page/2

that's good

thanks tobi

[Ordinary]

@Tobi92:

It's out.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/742/page/2

Thank you!

…It's feels weird without reading Kyros as Curos.

[Katzztar]

@Tobi92:

It's out.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/742/page/2

Ah nice to read this version.

I find it interesting on pg 17, one of the toy-victims thinking "I don't even know your face, but good luck Usopp"
Why I find it interesting?
Simple … its a theory I've had
grr silly comp... maybe I'll finish entry this time

I've said it before, the Marines have posted the bounty poster with name and pic of Sogeking despite knowing his name and having a chance of getting pics of his unmasked face at EL. I've argued that the Marines could have heard Luffy or even Zoro yelling out Usopp's name.
Even if one argues the Marines may not have heard at that point, I wil point out that they got pics of Robin, Franky & Zoro there from the bridge, and that's where Usopp took off the mask, so they had the same chance of getting Usopp's unmasked face photographed.

Even in the newspaper that announced the return of the Strawhats, it lists "Sogeking" and has a pic of Usopp's side profile that looks like it was taken in that bar he met Nami. Nami's pic also looks from there. Why is that important? Simple, Nami called out "Usopp!" there.

I've said before that Usopp will be known to the Marines and to the world at large by Sogeking more than his own name. Similar to how Edward Newgate was better known to the world as Whitebeard.
Yet this chapter has made me think that at least the toyified people will recognize the name Usopp but not know his face … unless they see him later on now that Sugar is out. But DD's people will know him as Sogeking as he's one of the Strawhats
IF the toy-victims continue not knowing his face, they may not connect Usopp to Sogeking and think there is another member of the SHs and that Usopp doesn't have a bounty.

It really makes me want to see more....
yeah, yeah, I know its a minor point in the over story but its one I like:happy:

@Bartholemew:

Dunno if it's already mentioned, but there's another similarity towards Alabasta. IIRC didn't Cobra also spy on his daughter with this kind of ninja mask?

YEah he did, it was Vivi went off to meet Kohza and friends.

[Densuke]

it's really bothering me that kyros cut from his thigh down when the chains were below his knee.. seems like a waste of perfectly good leg..

[Razh]

@Densuke:

it's really bothering me that kyros cut from his thigh down when the chains were below his knee.. seems like a waste of perfectly good leg..

Could have cut off his foot only and slip through the chains. Or middle of the shin at least.

Having a knee makes things a lot easier. Just look at Zeff.

[Lao G]

@Densuke:

it's really bothering me that kyros cut from his thigh down when the chains were below his knee.. seems like a waste of perfectly good leg..

I don't think he had the time to think where to cut, when Riku was under Dofla'a blade…

[Razh]

@Lao:

I don't think he had the time to think where to cut, when Riku was under Dofla'a blade…

I don't think his remark was directed to Kyros the character as much as to Oda. Oda created a situation in which Kyros had to act quickly before the king was killed.

I have more than one problem with that. First, he was offered to join Dofla. He might have done it in exchange for Riku's life. Just like Violet has done. Second, as was said, he could have cut the lower part of his leg.
Third, don't think he expected to survive with that kind of wound and against overwhelming enemy force. At best, he could have maybe killed Dofla and prolong king's life for unknown amount of time. Couldn't have known what would happen in next couple of minutes.
Fourth, he put king's life in front of the lives of his wife and daughter. He jumped into action without knowing if he'll survive or not.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. And please, no comments about how this is Shounen, Oda didn't think about it that deep, blah blah. I know what I'm reading.

[Monquito]

Diamante's ability is not working on Barto's barrier.
I was wondering how the ultimate Barto's atack would be. I'm picturing it like 6 barriers creating a cube around his oponent and then close all the 6 barriers at the same time leaving his oponent looking like a dice.

[Luis20]

@Tobi92:

It's out.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/742/page/2

Thank you very much.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

No. He was knocked out by tiredness. If it was CoC, he would've been knocked out alongside the wolves, not after them.

And Usopp wasn't targeted by Rayleigh.

And Mr. 3 isn't exactly strong. He has a very powerful DF, but he's not strong outside of that.

He resisted more time, because he more determinated than the wolves. If it was from tireness he would be KO first.

And I said that.

Mr.3 is physically stronger than navy soldiers.

It's all about determination, like Jozu said before. If Sugar isn't determinated enough, Luffy could knock her out with haki.

[Sereques]

@Razh:

I don't think his remark was directed to Kyros the character as much as to Oda. Oda created a situation in which Kyros had to act quickly before the king was killed.

I have more than one problem with that. First, he was offered to join Dofla. He might have done it in exchange for Riku's life. Just like Violet has done. Second, as was said, he could have cut the lower part of his leg.
Third, don't think he expected to survive with that kind of wound and against overwhelming enemy force. At best, he could have maybe killed Dofla and prolong king's life for unknown amount of time. Couldn't have known what would happen in next couple of minutes.
Fourth, he put king's life in front of the lives of his wife and daughter. He jumped into action without knowing if he'll survive or not.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. And please, no comments about how this is Shounen, Oda didn't think about it that deep, blah blah. I know what I'm reading.

The little you know about Kyros, do you think he's the type that work for someone just because he wants to save a life? Do you think Luffy will agree to something like that? It's really hilarious that you want him to cut lower and carefully remove his leg. What difference does that make? A decapitated leg is a decapitated leg. Same pain and inconvenience.

[Schabrak]

It's not stupid at all. He just heard that there are people hunting his wife and daughter, any second lost could have lead to their death. Oda even depicted Scarlet being shot in front of his eyes for that very reason. It's you who didn't think this one through, can't remember you having such a bad opinion in a long time, a bit shocking tbh. As if he had any reason to trust Mingo holding his word and not go on killing his family anyway. Remember how DD gave the offer and in the very next sentence talked about Becca and her mum dying. Maybe he had a different picture of Kyros, able to give up his family for his own life, as Kyros still had a negative to the citizens and Riku himself has told in this very chapter.

[Razh]

@Sereques:

The little you know about Kyros, do you think he's the type that work for someone just because he wants to save a life? Do you think Luffy will agree to something like that? It's really hilarious that you want him to cut lower and carefully remove his leg. What difference does that make? A decapitated leg is a decapitated leg. Same pain and inconvenience.

Maybe pretend to work for someone, just like Violet. Don't know what was hard to understand there.

I mean I even mentioned Zeff to make it easier to understand for fuck sake. Leg with a knee - wooden leg attachable. Leg without a knee - crutches.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Schabrak:

It's not stupid at all. He just heard that there are people hunting his wife and daughter, any second lost could have lead to their death. Oda even depicted Scarlet being shot in front of his eyes for that very reason. It's you who didn't think this one through, can't remember you having such a bad opinion in a long time, a bit shocking tbh. As if he had any reason to trust Mingo holding his word and not go on killing his family anyway. Remember how DD gave the offer and in the very next sentence talked about Becca and her mum dying. Maybe he had a different picture of Kyros, able to give up his family for his own life, as Kyros still had a negative to the citizens and Riku himself has told in this very chapter.

I guess after saving Riku and killing all of his crew there while massively bleeding from his leg, he would hop toward the flower field on that one leg while steel bleeding (if there was any blood left after all that fighting) and fight once more to protect his family. Ok, maybe Riku would help him. But truth is, Sugar saved his life when she turned him into a toy. Kyros resorted to save the king and die with that move. And I can't digest it easilly without at least seeing some obvious flaws in that situation.

I'm surprised you're able to talk like that just because someone is critical towards something. So much as calling an opinion bad? Can't remember you acting like that in a long time. A bit shocking tbh.

[Sereques]

@Razh:

Maybe pretend to work for someone, just like Violet. Don't know what was hard to understand there.

.

That is been a coward which Kyros is not. It's funny, one week you rate him as high as Mihawk and Rayleigh, the following week you want him begging for his life and others at the hands of Mingo.

[King Cannon]

@Luis20:

He resisted more time, because he more determinated than the wolves. If it was from tireness he would be KO first.

And I said that.

Mr.3 is physically stronger than navy soldiers.

It's all about determination, like Jozu said before. If Sugar isn't determinated enough, Luffy could knock her out with haki.

Tiredness has nothing to do with whether you can resist CoC or not. It's way more likely (and dramatic) that Mr. 2 just succumbed to his wounds and the cold.

And Mr. 3 is not physically strong at all. He never showed any physical prowess.

[Razh]

@Sereques:

That is been a coward which Kyros is not. It's funny, one week you rate him as high as Mihawk and Rayleigh, the following week you want him begging for his life and others at the hands of Mingo.

It's funny and cute how you think I'm contradicting myself.

Mingo offered him a job. He could have negotiated to leave Riku alive, just like Violet managed to do. Then there's the fact that Dofla issued an order to hunt for his wife and child. If he kills Dofla, who will retract the order? Besides, it's not cowardice to do whatever you can to save your loved ones, even if it means working with the enemy. Especially when you're in a shitty position and you have a chance to do something later. No point discussing it if you can't put some thought into it. Like Kyros should have.

[SantoryuUser7]

@GoustiFruit:

Next chapter… Oda making fun of us: Sugar was only faking it :-)

hahaha I wouldn't be able to handle the hilarity of something like this.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

If you think about it, Kyros cutting his leg is kind of lol worthy. It's a little over-dramatic of someone, no? It's kind of like "ok, simmer down there." But in all seriousness, he didn't seem to be in a position to think clearly. I should add I haven't read a single part of Sereques and Razh's conversation except for the post right above so I do apologize if I'm intruding with an overly-simplistic view.

[Luis20]

@King:

Tiredness has nothing to do with whether you can resist CoC or not. It's way more likely (and dramatic) that Mr. 2 just succumbed to his wounds and the cold.

And Mr. 3 is not physically strong at all. He never showed any physical prowess.

Mr.2 was normal even with those wounds, he wasn't knocked out from tiredness. He was knocked out after Luffy released Haoshoku so that was the reason.

Crocodile would not want a soldier like Mr.3 if he wasn't physically stronger than a navy soldier, who can't pass 9 douriki. Crocodile only refered to Mr.4 as being stronger than Mr.3 (besides members above him), so Galdino should be stronger than Mr.5, who demonstrated great deal of strenght dominating Miss Monday.

[RazgrizX]

@Razh:

I don't think his remark was directed to Kyros the character as much as to Oda. Oda created a situation in which Kyros had to act quickly before the king was killed.

I have more than one problem with that. First, he was offered to join Dofla. He might have done it in exchange for Riku's life. Just like Violet has done. Second, as was said, he could have cut the lower part of his leg.
Third, don't think he expected to survive with that kind of wound and against overwhelming enemy force. At best, he could have maybe killed Dofla and prolong king's life for unknown amount of time. Couldn't have known what would happen in next couple of minutes.
Fourth, he put king's life in front of the lives of his wife and daughter. He jumped into action without knowing if he'll survive or not.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. And please, no comments about how this is Shounen, Oda didn't think about it that deep, blah blah. I know what I'm reading.

Yeah, you're being way too harsh here. It was something on the heat of the moment. And the most important thing is that it worked, he managed to save Riku's life at the end.

[Razh]

@RazgrizX:

Yeah, you're being way too harsh here. It was something on the heat of the moment. And the most important thing is that it worked, he managed to save Riku's life at the end.

Yeah, I like how that part happened off panel. I'd like to see how a man who just cut his leg off and got turned into a small toy had enough presence of mind to figure out how to move properly and then managed to take the king and run away with him, next to Doflamingo, Sugar and Buffalo.

Maybe i am a little too harsh, but you can't honestly say that the whole thing was awesomely done. Anyone is bound to see at least one or two flaws.
What bothers me more than that by itself that there's always someone justifying it and explaining it. I know what happened and why it happened, but I don't need to be sold on it or like it.

And I hate it that Kyros had to lose his leg in such a dumb and forced way.

[RazgrizX]

@Razh:

Yeah, I like how that part happened off panel. I'd like to see how a man who just cut his leg off and got turned into a small toy had enough presence of mind to figure out how to move properly and then managed to take the king and run away with him, next to Doflamingo, Sugar and Buffalo.

Maybe i am a little too harsh, but you can't honestly say that the whole thing was awesomely done. Anyone is bound to see at least one or two flaws.
What bothers me more than that by itself that there's always someone justifying it and explaining it. I know what happened and why it happened, but I don't need to be sold on it or like it.

And I hate it that Kyros had to lose his leg in such a dumb and forced way.

I agree with that. The rescue should have been shown.

And I wasn't saying the whole scene was perfect or anything, just that you were being too critical of it. I also think you're maybe placing too much importance on his leg. I mean, in the real world you'd be right but here we have stuff like Shanks losing an arm and not even caring or Whitebeard losing his face so losing a leg isn't that big of a deal. It wasn't forced or dumb to me either, that'd be the last doublespread.

[benjamminbrown]

@Razh:

I'd like to see how a man who just cut his leg off and got turned into a small toy had enough presence of mind to figure out how to move properly…

You think that someone has to "figure out" how to hop on one leg? Just walking teaches you how to do that.

I don't think I know of anyone who doesn't know how to hop on one leg to get where they are going. Unless they cannot use their legs at all.

[Razh]

@benjamminbrown:

You think that someone has to "figure out" how to hop on one leg? Just walking teaches you how to do that.

I don't think I know of anyone who doesn't know how to hop on one leg to get where they are going. Unless they cannot use their legs at all.

His size, strength and balance changed completely in one second. That's got to affect a person in some way. Taking me for such a simpleton, really…
Even if it doesn't he was still able to take the king from Dofla, Sugar and Buffalo and escape while carrying him.
Sure, they may have forgotten it was Kyros but seeing a toy escaping with the king should at least raise some eyebrows.

[benjamminbrown]

@Razh:

His size, strength and balance changed completely in one second. That's got to affect a person in some way. Taking me for such a simpleton, really…
Even if it doesn't he was still able to take the king from Dofla, Sugar and Buffalo and escape while carrying him.
Sure, they may have forgotten it was Kyros but seeing a toy escaping with the king should at least raise some eyebrows.

None of the other toys have been shown to have trouble moving in their new bodies, they all can move perfectly from the get-go.

We've seen him use jet walk as a toy already, so how do we know that he wasn't capable of that right away? He probably just jet walked with Riku right out the window. Not complicated.

edit: Besides, he did fall over immediately after being turned into a toy. Doesn't this count for your surprise factor? I think it does.

[King Cannon]

@Luis20:

Mr.2 was normal even with those wounds, he wasn't knocked out from tiredness. He was knocked out after Luffy released Haoshoku so that was the reason.

Crocodile would not want a soldier like Mr.3 if he wasn't physically stronger than a navy soldier, who can't pass 9 douriki. Crocodile only refered to Mr.4 as being stronger than Mr.3 (besides members above him), so Galdino should be stronger than Mr.5, who demonstrated great deal of strenght dominating Miss Monday.

People tend to faint immediately when CoC is released. Mr. 2 didn't.

And Mr. 3 had an useful fruit. Nothing about physical strength as that wouldn't matter anyway.

[_Hayato]

About Kyros cutting off his leg, there are 3 reasons I can think of (and in my opinion he actually thought this through)

• The part he cut was closer to his hands
• Less "leg", less weight as we see him leaping towards Doflamingo the next second
• Adding to the 2nd reason and this might just be me but the more he got rid of in one leg, the more he'd be able to balance on one. That goes for the opposite I think, if he only got rid of his feet, there's be more "balance" putting pressure towards 2 legs instead of just one, but of course he won't have one of his foot resulting in an imbalance. Not sure if I'm right about that though.

[Razh]

@benjamminbrown:

None of the other toys have been shown to have trouble moving in their new bodies, they all can move perfectly from the get-go.

Because they are given commands from the get go and can't control their moves. Come on…

@benjamminbrown:

We've seen him use jet walk as a toy already, so how do we know that he wasn't capable of that right away? He probably just jet walked with Riku right out the window. Not complicated.

edit: Besides, he did fall over immediately after being turned into a toy. Doesn't this count for your surprise factor? I think it does.

See, you're guessing a lot here. He falls over immediately after being turned into a toy, is confused, and the next moment he performs a high level technique to escape with the king before anyone can do anything about it. Where was that jet walk a moment before, when Sugar could react in time to stop him? Am I supposed to believe that he's faster as a new toy than when he was a human?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@_Hayato:

About Kyros cutting off his leg, there are 3 reasons I can think of (and in my opinion he actually thought this through)

• The part he cut was closer to his hands
• Less "leg", less weight as we see him leaping towards Doflamingo the next second
• Adding to the 2nd reason and this might just be me but the more he got rid of in one leg, the more he'd be able to balance on one. That goes for the opposite I think, if he only got rid of his feet, there's be more "balance" putting pressure towards 2 legs instead of just one, but of course he won't have one of his foot resulting in an imbalance. Not sure if I'm right about that though.

I like the idea of making it easier to balance, but it seems like a shitty trade off, when you account for bloodloss and the posibility of imminent death.

[benjamminbrown]

@Razh:

Because they are given commands from the get go and can't control their moves. Come on…

See, you're guessing a lot here. He falls over immediately after being turned into a toy, is confused, and the next moment he performs a high level technique to escape with the king before anyone can do anything about it. Where was that jet walk a moment before, when Sugar could react in time to stop him? Am I supposed to believe that he's faster as a new toy than when he was a human?

They absolutely can control their own moves. They're not being ordered to spend time with their families during the day, so they shouldn't be able to walk out of the toy house, then, right? Because they have no idea how to move themselves.. yeah. Suspend your disbelief a little, guy. It's a comic.

You order me to fly a plane… I don't know how to, so I follow orders and immediately crash the plane into the mountain. Being ordered to do something and knowing how to do it are completely different things.

What's clear is that the toys retain all of their memories (except the memories of those who were turned into toys before them), so I don't see why they would suddenly forget how to do something that they already knew, like walk or hop.

It's possible that he is a lot faster now that he is a toy since the toy body is probably a lot lighter than his human one.

Also, we aren't sure whether Jet Walk is usable as an offensive move or not. It's a shame we didn't see more of Kyros's battles in the flashback, because I'm of the opinion that Jet Walk is something he developed during this time, not while he was a toy.

[_Hayato]

@Razh:

I like the idea of making it easier to balance, but it seems like a shitty trade off, when you account for bloodloss and the posibility of imminent death.

Ah yeah, I don't think he was concerned about himself at that point as much as he was trying to strike at/stop Doflamingo. I mean it did work itself out, Sugar stepped in and turned him into a toy and that also stopped the bleeding but I do wonder if Kyros' attack would've landed. Doflamingo was younger and even he looked a bit surprised, like he underestimated Kyros.

[Razh]

@benjamminbrown:

They absolutely can control their own moves. They're not being ordered to spend time with their families during the day, so they shouldn't be able to walk out of the toy house, then, right? Because they have no idea how to move themselves.. yeah. Suspend your disbelief a little, guy. It's a comic.

They don't go to their families straight away, do they? First they have to work.

I don't have trouble suspending my disbelief, to a point. And I always love to see when someone throws out an "It's a comic." argument. What does that it even mean? Don't you think I know it's a comic?
Why is it a problem if I want to discuss something I find ridiculous in a work of fiction, even if it's a comic, even if the fact it's a comic should mean it shouldn't be taken seriously at all? Why are you even discussing it with me?

@benjamminbrown:

You order me to fly a plane… I don't know how to, so I follow orders and immediately crash the plane into the mountain. Being ordered to do something and knowing how to do it are completely different things.

What's clear is that the toys retain all of their memories (except the memories of those who were turned into toys before them), so I don't see why they would suddenly forget how to do something that they already knew, like walk or hop.

It's possible that he is a lot faster now that he is a toy since the toy body is probably a lot lighter than his human one.

Also, we aren't sure whether Jet Walk is usable as an offensive move or not. It's a shame we didn't see more of Kyros's battles in the flashback, because I'm of the opinion that Jet Walk is something he developed during this time, not while he was a toy.

Using a fast movement is not the same with a human leg with developed muscles and with a leg made of tin. I imagine Kyros shouldn't have been able to do it right from the start. Maybe his little Soldier body is faster. But please take note that "faster" and "faster while carrying another man" is a big difference.

Jet walk is a movement technique so it doesn't matter if it's used to attack someone or to run away from someone. It's like wondering if Soru or Geppou could be used both offensively and defensively.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@_Hayato:

Ah yeah, I don't think he was concerned about himself at that point as much as he was trying to strike at/stop Doflamingo. I mean it did work itself out, Sugar stepped in and turned him into a toy and that also stopped the bleeding but I do wonder if Kyros' attack would've landed. Doflamingo was younger and even he looked a bit surprised, like he underestimated Kyros.

But that's also my problem. If he wasn't concerned with his life at that point. I get that he doesn't care about his life, but he kills Doflamingo, someone else may finish off the king. Also, he just heard his wife and kid are being hunted. He kills Dofla, nobody can recall the troops looking for them. Kyros could maybe hope to fight for a while, but most of Dofla's crew was in the castle. Someone didn't think this through.

[Katzztar]

I am not getting into the whole argument of whether Kyros' transformation is an asspull or not.
Nor am I putting words into your mouth, Razh, with the 'asspull'. I don't know if you said that but others had.

I am merely commenting on the quote below and that alone.
@Razh:

Am I supposed to believe that he's faster as a new toy than when he was a human?

Well, considering he's (Kyros) a tin toy, therefore he has less mass than a tall muscular human and is on a skate …. yes it's possible he is faster.
I base this on that I grew up in the 70s'-80s when skating rings seem to be more popular and I can say a little kid on skates moved faster than a grown man that's not on skates.
Add to that, that this the OP-World where rules of physics of the real world do not apply and you can get a fast one-legged tin man on a skate.

Please note I man not saying that Kyros is faster as a toy than as a human. I am saying that he can be.

[_Hayato]

@Razh:

But that's also my problem. If he wasn't concerned with his life at that point. I get that he doesn't care about his life, but he kills Doflamingo, someone else may finish off the king. Also, he just heard his wife and kid are being hunted. He kills Dofla, nobody can recall the troops looking for them. Kyros could maybe hope to fight for a while, but most of Dofla's crew was in the castle. Someone didn't think this through.

16 characters of he's not a fodder. Also you're leaving the part out that before he came to the palace he told Scarlett and Rebecca that they'll be meeting at the Red Flower Fields (she only died cause she forgot the promise, went to the town, found and shot remember?)

From what we've seen, who was in the room? Doflamingo, Sugar, Jora, Buffalo, Machvise and Gladius.

We don't know how strong Kyros is but whether if he stayed and kicked all their asses or escaped with the King and met with his wife and child, either could have been his plan.

[Razh]

@Katzztar:

I am not getting into the whole argument of whether Kyros' transformation is an asspull or not.
Nor am I putting words into your mouth, Razh, with the 'asspull'. I don't know if you said that but others had.

I am merely commenting on the quote below and that alone.

Well, considering he's (Kyros) a tin toy, therefore he has less mass than a tall muscular human and is on a skate …. yes it's possible he is faster.
I base this on that I grew up in the 70s'-80s when skating rings seem to be more popular and I can say a little kid on skates moved faster than a grown man that's not on skates.
Add to that, that this the OP-World where rules of physics of the real world do not apply and you can get a fast one-legged tin man on a skate.

Please note I man not saying that Kyros is faster as a toy than as a human. I am saying that he can be.

I accounted for the possibility in the previous post. While he can be faster than his human form while he's a toy, I'm not sure if he can be faster right away after being completely transformed and while carrying another person.

The whole situation with him being able to escape is kinda fishy. I really can't see Oda leaving it at that. Sugar just forgot to make a contract and everyone else in the room became oblivious to a toy running away with the king. If you think about it, there was no reason to skip what happened. Oda could have made Lepanto or someone charge into the room and distract them all. I think there's a possibility we'll see more of that flashback.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@_Hayato:

16 characters of he's not a fodder. Also you're leaving the part out that before he came to the palace he told Scarlett and Rebecca that they'll be meeting at the Red Flower Fields (she only died cause she forgot the promise, went to the town, found and shot remember?)

From what we've seen, who was in the room? Doflamingo, Sugar, Jora, Buffalo, Machvise and Gladius.

We don't know how strong Kyros is but whether if he stayed and kicked all their asses or escaped with the King and met with his wife and child, either could have been his plan.

They would have found both of them eventually, he should have known that much.

He had to expect to defeat 6 people with one leg and survive. It's not well thought out is what I'm saying.

It's bad enough that he was captured with the chains off-panel in the first place.

[benjamminbrown]

@Razh:

They don't go to their families straight away, do they? First they have to work.

You're completely missing my point. Order me to do something that I don't know how to do, I still can't do it properly. The fact that the other toys are able to walk/move immediately after transforming, whether ordered to or not, shows that there is no time required in order to get used to the new body. They've all been shown to be surprised at the transformation, though, so I think it makes sense that Kyros's first action after transforming was to fudge his landing and fall over.

@Razh:

Using a fast movement is not the same with a human leg with developed muscles and with a leg made of tin. I imagine Kyros shouldn't have been able to do it right from the start. Maybe his little Soldier body is faster. But please take note that "faster" and "faster while carrying another man" is a big difference.

Jet walk is a movement technique so it doesn't matter if it's used to attack someone or to run away from someone. It's like wondering if Soru or Geppou could be used both offensively and defensively.

Sure, ok. Doesn't change that he is probably faster as a toy. And just as fast as he was in his original body while carrying a person as large as he originally was.

With proper planning, even if you are much slower than your opponent, you can beat them. Hence why Kyros was toyified. But once he was toyified, the only one who (possibly) remembered who he was was Sugar. It makes sense that the others were surprised enough for Kyros to make a quick escape.

So what if I make the "it's a comic" argument? It's totally valid, here. I don't have anything against you wanting to discuss it, but I think you're either over- or under-thinking it. Kyros was making a quick decision in the moment _to save King Riku's life_​. You saw that Doffy was about to cut Riku's head off, right? That's why Kyros quickly dismembered his own leg and made a lunge for Doffy.

It's arguable that Riku was Kyros's best friend, and I think that his actions in that moment totally make sense. He sacrificed his own leg in order to spare Riku's head. Simple as that.

[DonGalaor]

@Luis20:

You don't know that.

Luffy knocked out Mr.3 with his haki in Marineford and he was stronger than many navy soldiers that stayed conscious. Luffy knocked down Mr.2 in Impel Down and Rayleigh didn't knock out Usopp in Sabaody. It's all about determination, like Jozu said.

1. Luffy didn't.
2. Rayleigh didn't knock out Ussop because he didn't want to, it's selective. If he wanted he could have made Ussop explode with his haoshoku. True story.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[_Hayato]

@Razh:

They would have found both of them eventually, he should have known that much.

He had to expect to defeat 6 people with one leg and survive. It's not well thought out is what I'm saying.

It's bad enough that he was captured with the chains off-panel in the first place.

From what we've seen, Diamante was the one who killed Scarlett. While I agree with you that there's a high possibility that they would have found them eventually both the reason of how Kyros/King eluded them AND why their search for Scarlett/Rebecca would have been a lot longer is the same - they know the land of Dressrosa much better.

Well like I said, whether he stayed and kicked their ass or escaped, either would've been fine. We also don't know how strong Kyros is, really.

I gotta answer this again I guess. They had a hostage and said hostage's life was not seconds away from ending, so it's easy to imagine that Kyros let himself get cuffed.

[Razh]

@benjamminbrown:

It's arguable that Riku was Kyros's best friend, and I think his actions in that moment totally make sense.

It all stands, more or less, but it's kinda silly that Kyros didn't even try to negotiate. Especially when you remember Violet became a Dofla pirate to save her father's life. So it turns out that Kyros' may have ultimately for nothing and to make it worse, him being turned into a toy is what caused Scarlett's death indirectly. I can appreciate the tragic irony in that, but that's about it.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@_Hayato:

I gotta answer this again I guess. They had a hostage and said hostage's life was not seconds away from ending, so it's easy to imagine that Kyros let himself get cuffed.

But I'd be more cofortable if it was shown. If he let himself be cuffed, what was the point of him asking them to remove them right after?

[benjamminbrown]

@Razh:

It all stands, more or less, but it's kinda silly that Kyros didn't even try to negotiate. Especially when you remember Violet became a Dofla pirate to save her father's life. So it turns out that Kyros' may have ultimately for nothing and to make it worse, him being turned into a toy is what caused Scarlett's death indirectly. I can appreciate the tragic irony in that, but that's about it.

That's just not true. What caused Scarlet's death was Doffy and his order to have her killed as well as Diamante's gunshot.

We have no idea what kind of prejudice Kyros held towards pirates. I'd argue that he, like almost every other sane non-pirate we have met in this story, simply hates pirates. Why comply with them, especially when they are threatening to kill your friend(s) and family?

Kyros seems like a slash first, ask questions later type of guy to me.

[_Hayato]

@Razh:

It all stands, more or less, but it's kinda silly that Kyros didn't even try to negotiate. Especially when you remember Violet became a Dofla pirate to save her father's life. So it turns out that Kyros' may have ultimately for nothing and to make it worse, him being turned into a toy is what caused Scarlett's death indirectly. I can appreciate the tragic irony in that, but that's about it.

That thought crossed my mind too but It's very in his character that in THAT point in his life, he was pretty much a beast, beasts don't think of ways to negotiate… especially when his family/father-in-law (/friend etc) was threatened. Also while it is ironic, he did not know what Sugar's power was nor did he plan so far ahead that Scarlett would look for food for Rebecca, I'm not sure where you were going with that.

@Razh:

But I'd be more cofortable if it was shown. If he let himself be cuffed, what was the point of him asking them to remove them right after?

They HAD to cuff him, they know his reputation or he's a beast. Choose your reason.

He was sweating when he said to remove them, meaning he knows he's screwed, sea-stone handcuffs cannot be cut and the only possible way to get out of that was to say "I'm not even a Devil Fruit User!", much good that did. It also served it's purpose to show the readers that he had no other choice.

-Edited-
Thinking about it some more, Rebecca also forgot about her Father and the promise so she ended up asking for food, which caused her mom's death. That's some messed up sh*t.