One Piece Chapter 741 - Usoland The Liar

[_Hayato]

@RazgrizX:

So you're saying that if 3 never happened, they wouldn't have gone with operation SOP? Well, I disagree.

Why are you attibuting this to lying when it's his cowardice that's stopping him from helping the dwarves? He's didn't to ANYTHING to help the dwarves at all and it has nothing to do with him not really being Noland's descendant.

What's not to get is that you and people defending this are making some bizarre argument that Usopp is fighting for himself and no one else using that "I'm not a hero" line out of context to support it and saying that this is a big character development for Usopp. Not only does this makes no sense, it would have been TERRIBLE. Usopp becoming some cold-hearted badass or whatever who only cares about his and his crew's glory.

And then you follow up with this:

"OH look guys Usopp is totally standing up for himself he's doing for it his own glory that's why he's being the kindest he's been ever!"

And by the way, you're wrong. Usopp saved Genzo from Arlong before even talking to him and then he saved some random bystanders from Chuu at Arlong Park.

Who's related to…? and why the hell do you people keep using Chuu as an example seriously.. Okay I'll humor you. Genzo thing? He ran. Cocoyashi Villagers? He ran. Know who chased him? Chuu and he kept running, he stood up when he had his epiphany, not to mention that was his very first fight - to earn a place in the crew PLUS the fact that he kept talking to himself (about Kaya and Usopp Pirates) to boost his confidence. IF Trebol & Sugar chased after him I'd see the similarity or even if he said anything of the sort to boost his confidence/intimidate or even an epiphany about anyone important to him, you'd still have a point but he DIDN'T. He is fighting now as the sniper of the Strawhat Pirates, as Usopp without any tricks, without any lies. FFS why do people find this SO hard...

-EDITED-
.. Sighh and it's only been 3 pages.

[Smiley]

@Master:

I rarely post but I have to ask why people are disgusted by a pirate acting selfishly? Remember when Sanji was going to leave the slave auction because it wasn't their problem (until Luffy smashed that guy's face in)? Usopp seems to remember something most of you forget. The Strawhats are pirates first, heroes only incidentally. Yeah, they end up as heroes but it always happens as a side effect, this case included. Without Robin there Usopp actually acted logically.

How many people actually think Usopp is even capable of beating Trebol and Sugar by himself? If no one here does, why should Usopp be any different? Running away is smart under these conditions. Yes, he'll probably struggle with them and knock Sugar out. He'll be near death and the toys around him, reverted to their original forms, will stomp Trebol. The world will be turned on its head because even we can't know who got 'erased' from the world. But there's no way Usopp could be aware of that.

As for the crux of the complaints, Usopp's cowardice gimmick. Yeah, it is a little old now but it isn't without its logic. I hope to God this was its swan song. I'd like Usopp to have actual permanent character development here. It's looking possible because there was something different in his tone this chapter. His legend will grow from this and he'll have to live up to it. Now, if Oda (not Usopp but the guy writing this manga) doesn't capitalize on this then fine, fire away.

Can you remind me of this one?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@_Hayato:

Who's related to…? and why the hell do you people keep using Chuu as an example seriously.. Okay I'll humor you. Genzo thing? He ran. Cocoyashi Villagers? He ran. Know who chased him? Chuu and he kept running, he stood up when he had his epiphany, not to mention that was his very first fight - to earn a place in the crew PLUS the fact that he kept talking to himself (about Kaya and Usopp Pirates) to boost his confidence. IF Trebol & Sugar chased after him I'd see the similarity or even if he said anything of the sort to boost his confidence/intimidate or even an epiphany about anyone important to him, you'd still have a point but he DIDN'T. He is fighting now as the sniper of the Strawhat Pirates, as Usopp without any tricks, without any lies. FFS why do people find this SO hard...

He didn't know yet that Genzo was related to Nami.
Only after Nojiko told their story.

[RazgrizX]

@Panda:

No, seriously though, I've seen a number of posts along the lines of Meta's; implying that, even within the context of Usopp's cowardice in general, this occasion is particular noteworthy because here he's being selfish, in addition to a coward. I just don't see it. I mean, I see how he's being selfish perfectly well, of course – one would have to be blind not to -- but I don't at all see how that sets this apart from absolutely any other occasion his cowardice has come into play. I legitimately cannot think of a single time in the manga when his cowardice has become a point that has not had him acting in a way that would be best characterized as 'selfish'. Am I simply forgetting some sort of glaring example?

Usopp always had at least a desire to be helpful to his friends/allies/crewmates. Even when he's afraid he at least manages to gather up some courage and try to help. And there's plenty of examples: Facing Kuro's crew to save his village, sniping Arlong to save Genzo, facing Jabra, etc.

[Panda Bear]

@RazgrizX:

Usopp always had at least a desire to be helpful to his friends/allies/crewmates. Even when he's afraid he at least manages to gather up some courage and try to help. And there's plenty of examples: Facing Kuro's crew to save his village, sniping Arlong to save Genzo, facing Jabra, etc.

And yet not a single one of those moments you list is a time when he's acting a coward, which is precisely my point.

[_Hayato]

@Smiley:

He didn't know yet that Genzo was related to Nami.
Only after Nojiko told their story.

What village were they? (serious question Idr) and didn't Nojiko saved Usopp at that time? (I gotta re-read)

[RazgrizX]

@_Hayato:

He is fighting now as the sniper of the Strawhat Pirates, as Usopp without any tricks, without any lies. FFS why do people find this SO hard…

And this is a good thing?! Yeah, Usopp sure is gonna show Trebol and Sugar who's the boss with his massive muscles.

[.access timeco.]

@Panda:

No, seriously though, I've seen a number of posts along the lines of Meta's; implying that, even within the context of Usopp's cowardice in general, this occasion is particular noteworthy because here he's being selfish, in addition to a coward. I just don't see it. I mean, I see how he's being selfish perfectly well, of course – one would have to be blind not to -- but I don't at all see how that sets this apart from absolutely any other occasion his cowardice has come into play. I legitimately cannot think of a single time in the manga when his cowardice has become a point that has not had him acting in a way that would be best characterized as 'selfish'. Am I simply forgetting some sort of glaring example?

Problem is the extent of it this time. How Usopp handled his cowardice.

Even if he was always selfish and sent others to fight, this was usually made in a humorous way, not a serious one. When things demanded him to act, he would. He was always a coward, but that didn't prevent him from facing Enel to protect Nami (although he thought Sanji would be around to fight him).

He was always trying to flee, he was always complaining, he was always trembling. But despite everything he said, he would never actually turn his back on others. That's where lies the difference between the good coward Usopp and the bad coward Buggy.

Usopp was always coward, but the only time when he allowed that to seriously come close to the point of leaving others behind to their own luck was back in Arlong Park. And AP was not one or two arcs ago, that was right after Usopp's life as a pirate began, it was the first time he was fighting on his own for his life and for others.

The problem is not that this particular scene doesn't fit anything Usopp is or was, but that it is the same development he went through 15 years ago. He already went through that, he supassed that point many years ago, many developments ago.
He never stopped being coward - thank god he didn't - but it changed how he handled that. The fears always existed, but he gained the courage to put them aside when things went serious.

Usopp started as a coward, after AP he evolved to a "brave coward". This arc he reverted back to a regular coward and required once again the same development that he had over a decade ago for no real reason. Maybe the Usopp that will raise from this will be ahead of the one he was before Dressrosa, but that doesn't change the fact he suffered an unexplained regression.

Still, I guess there is no point arguing this anymore. It's pretty clear everyone already established their views on the subject and should simply agree to disagree.

[Smiley]

@_Hayato:

What village were they? (serious question Idr) and didn't Nojiko saved Usopp at that time? (I gotta re-read)

Cocoyashi village, yes it was after Nojiko saved him but was before she told all the story to them( since Sanji and Zoro were also hearing the flashback).

[benjamminbrown]

@access: You're totally right that this time around has felt totally different. That's why the Usopp supporters are seeing this as a big character development.

[.access timeco.]

@benjamminbrown:

@access: You're totally right that this time around has felt totally different. That's why the Usopp supporters are seeing this as a big character development.

So I must be an Usopp hater that was always misled by the fact he is my favorite character after Buggy.

[_Hayato]

@Smiley:

Cocoyashi village, yes it was after Nojiko saved him but was before she told all the story to them( since Sanji and Zoro were also hearing the flashback).

Oh my lord I just re-read it.. What was the first thing Usopp said to Arlong…? Usopp is prideful, Nojiko saved him, why would he not act to save Genzo? and hell that's not even the point.. Genzo was about to die.

Sorry but I'll leave this here (this is about the crew member number chapter titles - talking about Robin/6th and Chopper/5th are still missing)

@_Hayato:

It's not really all that hard, I've been making a juxtaposition list for awhile now how each SH crew member and their arc baddies both have similarities and differences (though it's not finished and I wasn't really planning on posting it). What you just need to remember is "What makes a crew member chapter title"? and that's simple enough with these examples.

For Zoro, he had a great "ambition" to be the World's Greatest Swordsman and he was known as the 'Pirate Hunter' yet he joined with Luffy and became a pirate himself.

For Sanji, he was "adamant" on staying on Baratie for what he thought was right to pay back Zeff - as well as that demeanor of his that doesn't say what he really feels around guys yet at the end he asked Luffy himself that he'll go with him.

For Nami her "belief" that all Pirates are all alike, Arlong also used her for his own benefit but we all know Luffy isn't your typical pirate, he also knows he needs others to keep living, while it may be similar, it's also very different - at the end she became a full member of the crew.

For Usopp, the reason why he got his chapter title at the end of Water 7 and not his arc, I believe is because he was too "proud" (sorry this might be long since this needs explaining). They left his island with the Going Merry which they got with his help. He became the Vice-Captain of the Going Merry, his doubt and growing inferiority complex with the crew however associated in his mind that the Going Merry was his place in the crew, with his "pride" leading him to fight Luffy. The death of the Going Merry helped him to grow and focused on what was his right position in the crew, the sharpshooter - as well as a new bond which he vowed to be the REAL Sniper King to help Luffy. The end of Water 7 we saw Usopp thinking of ways to talk to the crew saying he's willing to be 'Vice-Captain' aboard the Sunny too, but that was short-lived, at the end though he threw down his "pride" and apologized to them.

For Franky, I did mention I wasn't done with my list yet.. right? All I got so far is him and Spandam being leaders who remade themselves, both with power (Buster Call/Blueprints). If someone can help with that, I'd be grateful.

For Brook, the "loneliness" he felt after watching his crew dying and 50 years passing is too great for anyone, but Luffy invited him to join his crew despite his appearance and helped him regain his shadow.

[benjamminbrown]

@.access:

So I must be an Usopp hater that was always misled by the fact he is my favorite character after Buggy.

Wow, defensive, much? All I'm saying is, cut the dude some slack. Especially if he's one of your favorites!

[brennen.exe]

@Panda:

I cannot think of a time [where] his cowardice has had him acting in a way that [wouldn't] be characterized as 'selfish'. Am I simply forgetting some sort of glaring example?

I want to make a playful jab about willful misrepresentation, but I'll pass haha. Anyway I think you are taking freedoms on selfishness while holding maybe a narrow view on cowardice. Inherent to selfishness is the disregard of others, most of the time at their expense. Cowardice, on the other hand, is simply a lack of courage in facing difficulty. The subject may be concerning one's own person, but there is no requirement that others be involved. So again the intention being misrepresented here is that Usopp has, to this point, shown no remorse or regret over his actions.

[benjamminbrown]

@brennen.exe:

I want to make a playful jab about willful misrepresentation, but I'll pass haha. Anyway I think you are taking freedoms on selfishness while holding maybe a narrow view on cowardice. Inherent to selfishness is the disregard of others, most of the time at their expense. Cowardice, on the other hand, is simply a lack of courage in facing difficulty. The subject may be concerning one's own person, but there is no requirement that others be involved. So again the intention being misrepresented here is that Usopp has, to this point, shown no remorse or regret over his actions.

Why do you think he hasn't been remorseful? Every other one of his lines lately has been "I'm sorry, Tontatta!"

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post.

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

Here, he's in the middle of enemy territory. Where's he going to be able to run for safety, and still be able to defend the Tontatta?

You know, it would have been really cool if Usopp had ran away to find himself a cover to snipe Trebol/Sugar from afar without them seeing him. Another possible scenario that would have been better than this for me.

And you're still hell bent on demonizing Usopp's lies like it's the reason the Tontattas are in a pinch, like giving them a fake confidence boost is such a horrible thing. I don't have anything new to say to that. Usopp's lies are the only reason he has come this far and it's what makes him an interesting character for me.

[benjamminbrown]

Raz, you're trying too hard to make me into an enemy here.

I've already agreed with you that his lying is his strongest point and that he should never get rid of it. All I've said is that he is learning where to draw the line. His lies totally ARE one of the reasons that the Tontatta are in so much trouble right now. I really can't comprehend how you don't get this yet after having it spelled out for you by so many other people (not just me).

Do you really have nothing to say to the rest of my post? Because I've pretty much completely destroyed the ground you were standing on as far as I'm concerned.

[_Hayato]

@RazgrizX:

Usopp always had at least a desire to be helpful to his friends/allies/crewmates. Even when he's afraid he at least manages to gather up some courage and try to help. And there's plenty of examples: Facing Kuro's crew to save his village, sniping Arlong to save Genzo, facing Jabra, etc.

I hate quoting myself seriously.. I really effing do….

@_Hayato:

LOL I think I can, people who uses the author excuse so much to judge a story when he clearly knows what he's doing PLUS the fact that you sound butthurt mentioning that this is One Piece when you're just clearly too ignorant about the character in the first place is no short of [insert any word you find insulting].

Let's look at the times Usopp fought (if I forget any, forgive me) and you can remember yourself which ones he ran in.

Arlong Park was for Nami, Little Garden it was for Zoro, Nami and Vivi, Alabasta it was for Vivi and Luffy… Skypeia it was for half the crew then Luffy, Sanji and Nami, Water 7 it was for Merry... and Robin (he put on the mask cause he was too ashamed to face them so as badass as Sogeking was, people need to remember that he was created from that shame), Enies Lobby it was for Robin then Luffy/crew, Thriller Bark.. he was the only one who can, Sabaody Archipelago he tried to save Zoro from Kizaru.. do you see where I'm going with this?

Now let's look at Post-Timeskip. Fishman Island it was for the crew then for Fishman Island, Punk Hazard for Nami(in Sanji's body) and the kids.. then for the plan to capture Caesar, Dressrosa.. huh wonder what's different? Franky wanted to help the dwarves (he had his own reasons for not coming but hey.. Usopp doesn't know that) he lied to the dwarves, he was pumped up BECAUSE he wasn't alone, then he saw the consequences what his lies led to, he came back sure.. THEN he stripped himself of all the lies he's made up, he didn't call himself Captain Usopp, there was no "brave warrior of the sea" "I have 8000 followers" he’s not using an alter ego to fight for him, he’s not using any fake hammers or saying he’s anything he’s not for intimidation or strength/confidence boost purposes. There was no Usoland.. he announced himself AS the SNIPER of the Strawhat Pirates and he's willing to die just for the faith the Tontattas that truly believed HE. WAS. A. LEGENDARY. HERO.

If you still don't see that I feel bad for you.

[.access timeco.]

@RazgrizX:

You know, it would have been really cool if Usopp had ran away to find himself a cover to snipe Trebol/Sugar from afar without them seeing him. Another possible scenario that would have been better than this for me.

And you're still hell bent on demonizing Usopp's lies like it's the reason the Tontattas are in a pinch, like giving them a fake confidence boost is such a horrible thing. I don't have anything new to say to that. Usopp's lies are the only reason he has come this far and it's what makes him an interesting character for me.

To be fair, he said that he needed to find Franky, so I think that somehow makes things look a bit better for him if his intentions were take Franky there to help the little guys.

Aside from that, the only excuse I can find for him is that, in his eyes, each one of the dwarfs is probably stronger than himself, so maybe he truly didn't thought he could be of any help where an army of them failed.

When I think like that, I don't really mind it at all. But a part of me knows I am just making things up to forgive him instead of using real facts.

[benjamminbrown]

@.access:

To be fair, he said that he needed to find Franky, so I think that somehow makes things look a bit better for him if his intentions were take Franky there to help the little guys.

Aside from that, the only excuse I can find for him is that, in his eyes, each one of the dwarfs is probably stronger than himself, so maybe he truly didn't thought he could be of any help where an army of them failed.

When I think like that, I don't really mind it at all. But a part of me knows I am just making things up to forgive him instead of using real facts.

Give yourself more credit. You're being totally logical.

[.access timeco.]

@_Hayato:

I hate quoting myself seriously.. I really effing do….

Nobody is arguing that this development can bring something new to Usopp (at least I don't think they are, I am not reading all the posts. But at least I am not), it is very likely it will. We can already see that.

What bother people is not what will come out of this, but how Oda handled the things that would lead to this point. Usopp was forced to undergo an uneeded regression in his character in order for Oda to give him this development (there are some examples in this thread showing that Usopp was also willing to fight for others than his close friends. I would even argue that Nami was not more than a person he barely knew back in Arlong Park, but I would need to reread that part to be sure).

But whatever. I will do as benjamminbrown said and focus on the positive reasoning.

[benjamminbrown]

@.access:

Nobody is arguing that this development can bring something new to Usopp (at least I don't think they are, I am not reading all the posts. But at least I am not), it is very likely it will. We can already see that.

What bother people is not what will come out of this, but how Oda handled the things that would lead to this point. Usopp was forced to undergo an uneeded regression in his character in order for Oda to give him this development (there are some examples in this thread showing that Usopp was also willing to fight for others than his close friends. I would even argue that Nami was not more than a person he barely knew back in Arlong Park, but I would need to reread that part to be sure).

But whatever. I will do as benjamminbrown said and focus on the positive reasoning.

The only point I disagree about here is the regression thing. If anything, I'd call it character stagnation, which is what makes this chapter and Usopp's speech so refreshing. He's totally redeeming himself, but I can understand the people with shorter memory spans getting annoyed with how it happened. Hell, it was really freaking annoying. But, I think that was Oda's goal.

[_Hayato]

@.access:

Nobody is arguing that this development can bring something new to Usopp (at least I don't think they are, I am not reading all the posts. But at least I am not), it is very likely it will. We can already see that.

What bother people is not what will come out of this, but how Oda handled the things that would lead to this point. Usopp was forced to undergo an uneeded regression in his character in order for Oda to give him this development (there are some examples in this thread showing that Usopp was also willing to fight for others than his close friends. I would even argue that Nami was not more than a person he barely knew back in Arlong Park, but I would need to reread that part to be sure).

But whatever. I will do as benjamminbrown said and focus on the positive reasoning.

I was made aware of that and already addressed it. Usopp was saved by Nojiko, they were in Cocoyashi village and Nojiko told him what's happening, granted it's not THE story but it's enough for Usopp to not let someone die in front of him. He was a man in debt, Usopp is a proud man, wasn't that like emphasized ALOT when they met Usopp and again at Luffy vs Usopp?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@benjamminbrown:

The only point I disagree about here is the regression thing. If anything, I'd call it character stagnation, which is what makes this chapter and Usopp's speech so refreshing. He's totally redeeming himself, but I can understand the people with shorter memory spans getting annoyed with how it happened. Hell, it was really freaking annoying. But, I think, that was Oda's goal.

Exactly, he has more variety to his arsenals, he has more confidence (Daruma/Getting the sea stone handcuffs) and it's safe to say he's stronger after the time-skip but he did not become brave as people expected him to be (well I also thought he was around Fishman Island).

[DarkHamster]

@.access:

Usopp started as a coward, after AP he evolved to a "brave coward". This arc he reverted back to a regular coward and required once again the same development that he had over a decade ago for no real reason. Maybe the Usopp that will raise from this will be ahead of the one he was before Dressrosa, but that doesn't change the fact he suffered an unexplained regression.

OMGAWD! Are you me? I've been trying to make this point since the last chapter. People are saying we're b*tching about him being a coward or running away, and I've been trying to say no, it's the rehashing just to add more drama (ignoring development) which is weak writing.

Funny that coincidentally I was just reading AP arc this morning for fun and this thread is suddenly talking about it.

@benjamminbrown:

All I've said is that he is learning where to draw the line.

The problem with that is, the line has slowly been raised. He's a different man, with different standards of how much it takes for him to stand up to the enemy, no matter how insanely powerful they would seem at the time.

@.access:

Usopp was forced to undergo an uneeded regression in his character in order for Oda to give him this development

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

His lies totally ARE one of the reasons that the Tontatta are in so much trouble right now. I really can't comprehend how you don't get this yet after having it spelled out for you by so many other people (not just me).

I don't have anything else to say to the rest of your post because you keep using this assumption to support them. Seriously, they aren't. There is absolutely nothing that Usopp would have accomplished by telling them the truth before this chapter. The tontatta would still have been captured. In fact, if he told the truth in the first place he'd be wandering around Green Bit naked along with Robin.

You even keep talking like Usopp is ashamed of his lie, saying that he's gonna lose his sleep over his lie. Really? You think Usopp is putting his lying complex over the Tontatta's lives being in danger in his guilt meter? Sorry, but I think that letting people who trust you and are depending on you get brutally killed is what Usopp was talking about. Has he ever even expressed any desire to be a more honest person EVER in this manga or how his lies have been affecting people negatively?
There is no line to be drawn, Usopp never went overboard with his lies at all.

[benjamminbrown]

@DarkHamster:

The problem with that is, the line has slowly been raised. He's a different man, with different standards of how much it takes for him to stand up to the enemy, no matter how insanely powerful they would seem at the time.

I'm specifically talking about where to draw the line on his lying, but you make a fair point.

If what you are referring to specifically are his brave actions during Arlong Park, please recall that nearly every time after he sniped someone out of bravery, he immediately fled out of pure cowardice.

His situation this chapter would be more like if he had gone by himself into Arlong's base and started raising hell, with no back up at all. He has never done something like this before, so how can people call his scaredy-cat behavior here character regression? If anything, it's just more of the same that he's been showing all along.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RazgrizX:

I don't have anything else to say to the rest of your post because you keep using this assumption to support them. Seriously, they aren't. There is absolutely nothing that Usopp would have accomplished by telling them the truth before this chapter. The tontatta would still have been captured. In fact, if he told the truth in the first place he'd be wandering around Green Bit naked along with Robin.

You even keep talking like Usopp is ashamed of his lie, saying that he's gonna lose his sleep over his lie. Really? You think Usopp is putting his lying complex over the Tontatta's lives being in danger in his guilt meter? Sorry, but I think that letting people who trust you and are depending on you get brutally killed is Usopp was talking about. Has he ever even expressed any desire to be a more honest person EVER in this manga or how his lies have been affecting people negatively?
There is no line to be drawn, Usopp never went overboard with his lies at all.

Just, LOL, Raz. I see there is no point in continuing this discussion. How you don't see the negative effect of his lying here is completely beyond me. You really can't see how Usopp himself is feeling terrible over his own lies? Why would he be coming clean if he didn't think that his lies were a problem?

Anyway, I wash my hands of this filthy matter. Decide what you will, people, but know that I have at least tried to show you the light.

[peeko]

@hosemisnuba:

Its quite irritating Oda is deciding to skip Sugar's beating in favor of her changing sides. Why Oda, why? The chapter was okay, but the possibility of Sugar deserting Doffy is beyond frustrating.

It was only 1 panel where she looked to pity the dwarves, and right after she stated why she had this face, you are thinking wayyy to deep into this, seriously. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you shoudn't get irritated over that lmao

[DarkHamster]

@benjamminbrown:

If what you are referring to specifically are his brave actions during Arlong Park, please recall that nearly every time after he sniped someone out of bravery, he immediately fled out of pure cowardice.

But it's also almost never been at the total disregard for others' well being. He sniped a fishman, ran, and as the fishman was about to attack villagers, Ussop attacked Chew to coax Chew into chasing him. There's different forms of cowardice and my problem with it is that Oda could've written Ussop into a coward last chapter without having running away and abandoning everything. He even mentioned he'll run and let Franky handle it….which was a especially "wtf" moment, since he's never been the type to just let his crewmates down.

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

If what you are referring to specifically are his brave actions during Arlong Park, please recall that nearly every time after he sniped someone out of bravery, he immediately fled out of pure cowardice.

And that's why people are saying it was a regression. Before he sniped his enemies while still being a coward before his big manning-up moment. This time he didn't do anything at all until this chapter.

And stop using "LOLS, YOU DON'T GET MY POINTS, YOU'RE SO DUMB. EVERYONE CAN SEE I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG" as an argument.

Instead tell me what would have Usopp not lying have accomplished

[benjamminbrown]

@RazgrizX:

And that's why people are saying it was a regression. Before he sniped his enemies while still being a coward before his big manning-up moment. This time he didn't do anything at all until this chapter.

And stop using "LOLS, YOU DON'T GET MY POINTS, YOU'RE SO DUMB. EVERYONE CAN SEE I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG" as an argument.

Instead tell me what would have Usopp not lying have accomplished

Actually, I'm totally flabbergasted that almost everyone CAN'T see the points that I'm making, which is why I'm giving up on the arguing. Too much grief.

But, just to humor you, as I've already said, if Usopp had never lied to them in the first place… if he had never given them the confidence boost needed to pull off SOP in the way that they have done so, then he would feel no remorse in what is happening to them right now. Instead, it's HIS OWN LIES which are MAKING HIMSELF FEEL LIKE CRAP. Pretty obvious, really.

[DarkHamster]

Okay 3 things can happen from here.

1.) Ussop ends up getting owned up to the point until he learns haki.

2.) Kanjuro shows up and helps.

3.) Ussop takes out sugar while avoiding Trebol's attack.

Or maybe Oda does something completely different. But I really want him to start learning haki….

[_Hayato]

@DarkHamster:

OMGAWD! Are you me? I've been trying to make this point since the last chapter. People are saying we're b*tching about him being a coward or running away, and I've been trying to say no, it's the rehashing just to add more drama (ignoring development) which is weak writing.

Funny that coincidentally I was just reading AP arc this morning for fun and this thread is suddenly talking about it.

The problem with that is, the line has slowly been raised. He's a different man, with different standards of how much it takes for him to stand up to the enemy, no matter how insanely powerful they would seem at the time.

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/a1f0d78fadc07b34ec68ac69dd5b74a07c805fad_m.gif

Eff this I don't care anymore. Quote Quote Quote.
@_Hayato:

Who's related to…? and why the hell do you people keep using Chuu as an example seriously.. Okay I'll humor you. Genzo thing? He ran. Cocoyashi Villagers? He ran. Know who chased him? Chuu and he kept running, he stood up when he had his epiphany, not to mention that was his very first fight - to earn a place in the crew PLUS the fact that he kept talking to himself (about Kaya and Usopp Pirates) to boost his confidence. IF Trebol & Sugar chased after him I'd see the similarity or even if he said anything of the sort to boost his confidence/intimidate or even an epiphany about anyone important to him, you'd still have a point but he DIDN'T. He is fighting now as the sniper of the Strawhat Pirates, as Usopp without any tricks, without any lies. FFS why do people find this SO hard...

Oh and you people were the one who put the "Brave Coward" label on him.. what if I told you he fought to earn a place in the crew? Geebus
@RazgrizX:

I don't have anything else to say to the rest of your post because you keep using this assumption to support them. Seriously, they aren't. There is absolutely nothing that Usopp would have accomplished by telling them the truth before this chapter. The tontatta would still have been captured. In fact, if he told the truth in the first place he'd be wandering around Green Bit naked along with Robin.

You even keep talking like Usopp is ashamed of his lie, saying that he's gonna lose his sleep over his lie. Really? You think Usopp is putting his lying complex over the Tontatta's lives being in danger in his guilt meter? Sorry, but I think that letting people who trust you and are depending on you get brutally killed is Usopp was talking about. Has he ever even expressed any desire to be a more honest person EVER in this manga or how his lies have been affecting people negatively?
There is no line to be drawn, Usopp never went overboard with his lies at all.

I'm convinced you're either a troll - like you saying the only thing you find interesting are the lies and trying not to understand that Usopp's lie did result in Leo's bold statement to Trebol which led to their further suffering but whatever quote for you too.
@_Hayato:

LOL I think I can, people who uses the author excuse so much to judge a story when he clearly knows what he's doing PLUS the fact that you sound butthurt mentioning that this is One Piece when you're just clearly too ignorant about the character in the first place is no short of [insert any word you find insulting].

Let's look at the times Usopp fought (if I forget any, forgive me) and you can remember yourself which ones he ran in.

Arlong Park was for Nami, Little Garden it was for Zoro, Nami and Vivi, Alabasta it was for Vivi and Luffy… Skypeia it was for half the crew then Luffy, Sanji and Nami, Water 7 it was for Merry... and Robin (he put on the mask cause he was too ashamed to face them so as badass as Sogeking was, people need to remember that he was created from that shame), Enies Lobby it was for Robin then Luffy/crew, Thriller Bark.. he was the only one who can, Sabaody Archipelago he tried to save Zoro from Kizaru.. do you see where I'm going with this?

Now let's look at Post-Timeskip. Fishman Island it was for the crew then for Fishman Island, Punk Hazard for Nami(in Sanji's body) and the kids.. then for the plan to capture Caesar, Dressrosa.. huh wonder what's different? Franky wanted to help the dwarves (he had his own reasons for not coming but hey.. Usopp doesn't know that) he lied to the dwarves, he was pumped up BECAUSE he wasn't alone, then he saw the consequences what his lies led to, he came back sure.. THEN he stripped himself of all the lies he's made up, he didn't call himself Captain Usopp, there was no "brave warrior of the sea" "I have 8000 followers" he’s not using an alter ego to fight for him, he’s not using any fake hammers or saying he’s anything he’s not for intimidation or strength/confidence boost purposes. There was no Usoland.. he announced himself AS the SNIPER of the Strawhat Pirates and he's willing to die just for the faith the Tontattas that truly believed HE. WAS. A. LEGENDARY. HERO.

If you still don't see that I feel bad for you.

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

Actually, I'm totally flabbergasted that almost everyone CAN'T see the points that I'm making, which is why I'm giving up on the arguing. Too much grief.

But, just to humor you, as I've already said, if Usopp had never lied to them in the first place… if he had never given them the confidence boost needed to pull off SOP in the way that they have done so, then he would feel no remorse in what is happening to them right now. Instead, it's his OWN LIES which are making HIMSELF FEEL LIKE CRAP. Pretty obvious, really.

Again you're saying they wouldn't go with SOP if a descendant of their hero Noland wasn't there. There is nothing suggest this. Nothing.

Your priorities are totally screwed. This is a moment of Usopp finally comes to the help of the Tontatta who are about to be KILLED after completely neglecting them and you're focusing on "he's not Usoland, he's not lying anymore, let's applaud our hero Usopp!" like it's some kind of necessary development to him being able to help them. You're blowing this way out of proportion talking as if Usopp would have never done anything if he never confessed about his lies and that they're the biggest cause of his guilt and not the fact that the dwarves are in danger, making Usopp seem like a selfish asshole again which like I said many times, would have been a terrible development.

[DarkHamster]

@_Hayato:

Eff this I don't care anymore. Quote Quote Quote.

I'm incredibly confused about the point you're trying to make because all you've been doing is quoting yourself without and context to why that quotation are being used…..

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece-72?id=7619
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece-83?id=7673

Ussop has been a coward, but he's also been a noble coward, that's why I found the last 2 chapters to be weirdly written. The Chew situation was outside of the crew at the time. There have been situations where his crewmates wasn't part of the equation. And you can always argue that any situation was somehow related to his crewmates.

[RazgrizX]

@_Hayato:

…

Repeating the same bad post over and over again doesn't make your arguments any stronger.

[zxcv11791]

@DarkHamster:

Okay 3 things can happen from here.

1.) Ussop ends up getting owned up to the point until he learns haki.

2.) Kanjuro shows up and helps.

3.) Ussop takes out sugar while avoiding Trebol's attack.

Or maybe Oda does something completely different. But I really want him to start learning haki….

I think its too soon for him to learn haki though, although it would be cool development for him. I kinda thought he would just figure out more combos with the keystone handcuffs he picked up from capturing ceaser and maybe fashioned some new weapon out of it. I think Ussop is a more gadget based fighter than haki user anyways.

[DarkHamster]

@zxcv11791:

I think its too soon for him to learn haki though, although it would be cool development for him. I kinda thought he would just figure out more combos with the keystone handcuffs he picked up from capturing ceaser and maybe fashioned some new weapon out of it. I think Ussop is a more gadget based fighter than haki user anyways.

I personally think it'll be a situation where he learns it but can't control it well and it'll progress through arcs where he finetunes it. And I agree to a certain degree that he's a gadget user, but his attacks are still physical based (besides firebird star), much like the Kuja warriors and their arrows. As a sniper of the SHs, it would be handy to learn it. The only crewmates I don't see learning Haki are Franky and Nami, both use technology and have attacks that aren't physical (laser, fire, lightning….etc).

@RazgrizX:

Repeating the same bad post over and over again doesn't make your arguments any stronger.

I really have no idea what point he's trying to make. Part of the argument seems to be that he's always done things b/c he had crewmates there; well counter argument is that he's already acknowledged he knows Franky is up there fighting and Ussop said he'll leave it to Franky which goes against previous arcs. And that there's evidence that he's done things for people who are not SHs.

[benjamminbrown]

@RazgrizX:

Again you're saying they wouldn't go with SOP if a descendant of their hero Noland wasn't there. There is nothing suggest this. Nothing.

Dude, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if they tried to do SOP without Usopp playing the role that he's been playing, then Usopp wouldn't probably give two shits about them. In fact, he'd probably think that they were crazy for attempting it in the first place (hasn't he even said that the plan sounds crazy at least once already?). The whole reason he is feeling for them right now is not because they are failing at their operation, it's because they are failing even after giving it their all and knowing that he would save the day if need be.

He feels shitty that he told them he would save the day and that they believed him. It's hurting his pride so much that he just can't run away.

@RazgrizX:

Your priorities are totally screwed. This is a moment of Usopp finally comes to the help of the Tontatta who are about to be KILLED after completely neglecting them and you're focusing on "he's not Usoland, he's not lying anymore, let's applaud our hero Usopp!" like it's some kind of necessary development to him being able to help them. You're blowing this way out of proportion talking as if Usopp would have never done anything if he never confessed about his lies and that they're the biggest cause of his guilt and not the fact that the dwarves are in danger, making Usopp seem like a selfish asshole again which like I said many times, would have been a terrible development.

Why would he care about the dwarves being in danger? They put themselves in that situation, right? He didn't sign on for some bullshit heroics, here. He's just trying to help his crew beat Doffy to a damn pulp.

The thing he cares most about here is that he bold-faced lied to them saying that he would save the day if everything went to shit, and then didn't even have the courage to do so. He hates himself for it, thus the big speech this chapter.

With that, Raz, I'm really out. If there's a way to make all of this any clearer to you, it's beyond me.

[Piitan]

Man I miss Jabra and Urouge's weekly reviews.

[Buggy's Nose]

Honestly, we're less than two days into the fortnight break and already the chat on this thread has descended to these levels?! Sheesh…

[_Hayato]

@DarkHamster:

I'm incredibly confused about the point you're trying to make because all you've been doing is quoting yourself without and context to why that quotation are being used…..

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece-72?id=7619
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece-83?id=7673

Ussop has been a coward, but he's also been a noble coward. That's why I found the last 2 chapters to be weirdly written. The Chew situation was outside of the crew at the time. There have been situations where his crewmates wasn't part of the equation. And you can always argue that any situation was somehow related to his crewmates.

I'm saying you said that it was the same progress as it was at AP, I'm telling you it's not. Nojiko saved him, he brought her to her house, she explained the situation… Usoppp.. prideful.. my god my head hurts.... Usopp ran.. what was the first thing he said to Arlong? (and don't say explosive star!!) What did Usopp need to defeat Chuu? Oh and you might wanna use mangasee, better quality.

@RazgrizX:

Repeating the same bad post over and over again doesn't make your arguments any stronger.

Yup, troll. I'm out.

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

Why would he care about the dwarves being in danger? They put themselves in that situation, right? He didn't sign on for some bullshit heroics, here. He's just trying to help his crew beat Doffy to a damn pulp.

Because the dwarves have literally the same goal as him? It's almost like helping people who wanna do the same thing as you is a good idea!

[benjamminbrown]

@RazgrizX:

Because the dwarves have literally the same goal as him? It's almost like helping people who wanna do the same thing as you is a good idea!

No, they don't. They want to rescue their princess and captured comrades and to return Riku to the throne. Usopp doesn't care about any of that shit. Peace.

[_Hayato]

@Buggy's:

Honestly, we're less than two days into the fortnight break and already the chat on this thread has descended to these levels?! Sheesh…

I think I need a break.. this thread is making me go insane..

[knceng]

@DarkHamster:

But it's also almost never been at the total disregard for others' well being. He sniped a fishman, ran, and as the fishman was about to attack villagers, Ussop attacked Chew to coax Chew into chasing him. There's different forms of cowardice and my problem with it is that Oda could've written Ussop into a coward last chapter without having running away and abandoning everything. He even mentioned he'll run and let Franky handle it….which was a especially "wtf" moment, since he's never been the type to just let his crewmates down.

1. Tontatas is stronger than Usopp … check.
2. Unknown Dofla's officer's DF ... check.
3. Dofla's officer Sugar soloing the Tontatas ... check.
4. The Tontatas defeated ... check.
5. Alone in front of 2 Dofla's officer (DF user) and not running away
...
......
.........
A fatal exception error has occured.
Beginning dump of physical memory.
Physical memory dump complete.
Contact your system administrator or technical support group for further assistance.

@.access:

He was always a coward, but that didn't prevent him from facing Enel to protect Nami

Nope, it did prevent him. He leaves Nami behind.

[RazgrizX]

@benjamminbrown:

No, they don't. They want to rescue their princess and return Riku to the throne. Usopp doesn't care about any of that shit. Peace.

Which doesn't at all involve beating Doffy and his cronies or destroying the factory that the princess and the rest of the dwarves are being help captive. Sure

[TrolonoaZoro]

Can't wait for Usopp to beat Trebol.
We'll see what the combination of a deadly arsenal, crazy endurance, brain and determination can do.

[DarkHamster]

@_Hayato:

I'm saying you said that it was the same progress as it was at AP, I'm telling you it's not. Nojiko saved him, he brought her to her house, she explained the situation… Usoppp.. prideful.. my god my head hurts.... Usopp ran.. what was the first thing he said to Arlong? (and don't say explosive star!!) What did Usopp need to defeat Chuu? Oh and you might wanna use mangasee, better quality.

It's not the same progress as AP b/c he should've grown even more. What is the point of saying Nojiko told him the situation, he knows the situation on Dressrosa b/c the dwarves told him and the Den-Den mushi call with the other SHs. And after he shot Arlong, he bragged and lied like he always does (which isn't not ignoring character development).

You bring up why he needed to defeat Chew, but you ignore why he has to defeat Sugar and Trebol, namely that Franky is fighting against DD's crewmates just to give him the chance to (something knows about).

@knceng:

1. Tontatas is stronger than Usopp … check.
2. Unknown Dofla's officer's DF ... check.
3. Dofla's officer Sugar soloing the Tontatas ... check.
4. The Tontatas defeated ... check.
5. Alone in front of 2 Dofla's officer (DF user) and not running away
...
......
.........
A fatal exception error has occured.
Beginning dump of physical memory.
Physical memory dump complete.
Contact your system administrator or technical support group for further assistance.

Your point? He ran away to let the Tontatas to fend for themselves before he turned back…...which is the point I'm trying to make. Oh also, he ran to lend Franky handle it himself....

@knceng:

Nope, it did prevent him. He leaves Nami behind.

http://mangasee.com/manga/?series=OnePiece&chapter=284&index=1

1.) he didn't leave nami behind.

2.) he shuts the door and then decides to face Enel

3.) He even told nami he'll distract him while she gets ready to GTFO out of there…......

[benjamminbrown]

@RazgrizX:

Which doesn't at all involve beating Doffy and his cronies or destroying the factory that the princess and the rest of the dwarves are being help captive. Sure

You're like the most frustrating person to argue with. I know you're not an idiot, so why can't you get the point?

Of course, beating Doffy is a necessary step in order to achieve what the Tontatta want, but this is the only step that Usopp cares about! What's so confusing for you, Raz?! Sheesh. If anyone is coming off as condescending toward the other person's supposedly inferior intelligence, it's you.

I've got to stick to my guns here and just stop posting for now. Maybe I'll have something better to add later today.

[TonyTheChopper]

@Piitan:

Man I miss Jabra and Urouge's weekly reviews.

I feel you bro. Those post used to be the only good things about these threads.

[juiceduphody3315]

People don't understand usopp just wanted to destroy the factory and let kaidou deal with doflamingo. Now the whole crew except for usopp who planned on running the whole arc wants to take down doflamingo and usopp was just lying and hoping they did all the work. Now he feels extremely guilty and made a choice to finally help out after lying to the dwarves and seeing them suffer on the account they expect him to save them. Usopp never wanted to fight mingos goons in the first place that's why oda told the story as he did