Chopper's forms

EvoWarrior5

I think that my answer is a perfect explanation for why he would take Maxim anywhere with him. It is a mobile cloud factory, which is basically a weapon of mass destruction in his hands. Why not take it everywhere? What, was he going to just leave it in the Sky Islands where anyone else could just take it?
It's his.
Of course he'll take it with him.

I used this as an argument as well. Since he's a God he's gonna wanna take that throne / weapon / ship whenever he goes to the moon.

Also, I think you are overestimating Enel's actual speed in the One Piece universe.
We have no idea how fast lightning, light, sound, etc. are in this world (beyond that Oda just draws them as FAST, REALLY FAST WOW). Furthermore, we have no idea what the distance to the moon is in One Piece.
Hell, the most ridiculous part is that we've seen Enel walking around on the moon without a space suit.
We've seen spaceys float to the moon on little balloons!
Both of these things imply that there is an atmosphere that goes all the way from the Blue Seas to the Moon… which is very different from the Earth and Moon in reality.

My point is that you are trying to make real world arguments about a story which is obviously pretty far from realistic. Don't assume so much about what Enel's actual speed is, and whether that would make him able to jump back and forth to the Moon under his own strength.

I don't think lightning is that slow in one piece as youre gonna tell me that he cant even fly to the moon in no time.
i agree that him taking the arc can imply that he cannot go there, but i just cant see WHY. theres no logic in there…
even if lightning there is not as fast as here, getting to the moon which, as you said, appears to have an atmosphere, i dont see why he couldnt get there by himself.

King Cannon

I don't think Enel can travel through space with his powers. Lightning needs a conductor to travel through and there's nothing in outer space that can act as one.

Remember guys, Lightning =/= Light.

benjamminbrown

@EvoWarrior5:

I used this as an argument as well. Since he's a God he's gonna wanna take that throne / weapon / ship whenever he goes to the moon.

I don't think lightning is that slow in one piece as youre gonna tell me that he cant even fly to the moon in no time.
i agree that him taking the arc can imply that he cannot go there, but i just cant see WHY. theres no logic in there…
even if lightning there is not as fast as here, getting to the moon which, as you said, appears to have an atmosphere, i dont see why he couldnt get there by himself.

You are missing the point entirely. Whether lightning is fast or slow in the One Piece world doesn't matter. What matters is (T = D/V) the time it takes to get there, or the ratio of the distance to the velocity.
We know neither of these values. The distance to the moon in One Piece, as well as Enel's actual speed as a lightning man are both completely UNKNOWN to us.

Again: You are trying to rationalize, make realistic, a story which is totally unrealistic in nearly every way. Oda knows why Enel can or cannot get to the moon on his own, and if he decides to tell us why, then we will also know.
For now, there is no point in assuming that Enel can jump/fly to the moon on his own when it simply hasn't been shown that he is capable of doing so.

Follow?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

I don't think Enel can travel through space with his powers. Lightning needs a conductor to travel through and there's nothing in outer space that can act as one.

Remember guys, Lightning =/= Light.

Lightning, as a plasma, can be its own conductor. At least in the real world, lightning has been known to project itself out of the upper atmosphere and into "space", in some cases even as a relativistic beam of electrons (and positrons!).
Anyway, the evidence points to the moon not really being in "space" as far as we can tell. Enel appears to be breathing there just fine, and we know that the spaceys floated up there with balloons. Also, if I remember correctly, the moon wall drawings depicted the Sky People floating down to the blue seas with balloons, too.
So the argument that Enel cannot travel in space as a lightning man isn't really valid in the Moon discussion, I'd say.

Just as a side note: There probably is no such thing as a "true" vacuum anywhere in the real universe. All of space is actually filled with a very sparse, ionized plasma of hydrogen and electrons.

SAMURAI FLEX

@nonectra:

My theory is that it's because they've hyped the samurai of Wano so much, their name spontaneously changed preemptively so they can have a consolation prize when Wano inevitably fails to live up to their expectations.

It's never to late to jump on the Wano bandwagon because there will be a lot of them when the Arc ends.

EvoWarrior5

@ Benjammin, now you're using the argument that I shouldn't use real world physics as evidence in here, and that I cannot prove Enel can or cannot go there.
Well of course I cannot, I'm just trying to speculate on it by using my own logic.
But your last post only consisted of "you can't prove it's true so don't assume it's true". So why would you assume either side in the same way??
Well actually I don't even remember your opinion on this: do you think that Enel can or cannot travel to the moon by himself?

And sorry, but in the second part of your post you start using real world physics to make something clear to somebody, while in the first part you said we should disregard real world logic. Why would you do that??
Although you're right in the atmosphere part, and even how the moon does not even necessarily have to be in space. interesting "theory", to say the least.

Anyways, the discussion started about Enel and what did he need Maxim for.
A valid point was made that if he could have gone there himself he would have, so by the fact that he might have had to use maxim can indicate that he cannot do it.
We do not know if he could go there by himself, but what we do know is that (1. He wanted to destroy Skypiea with it (2. He wanted to go there with 4 other people (3. He is a God and only wants the best for himself. It's a throne and a weapon to him, with which he might have wanted to show his might to the moonies.
Therefore we cannot say if he could get there by himself or not, but there were quite enough reasons why Maxim definitely had to be built in his eyes.

benjamminbrown

Evo, I confess that I was a little hypocritical.

I do think that real world physics arguments can be used in speculating about one piece, but probably only in the simplest, rule-of-thumb sense. But I also feel that the world of One Piece can be very drastically different from reality, as Oda sees fit.

My opinion on this discussion is that Enel cannot get to the moon on his own, but I am, like you, unsure of why he is unable to.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Oda would have shown Enel spending so much time on building Maxim if it wasn't somehow necessary.

Now, to me, a heuristic argument for why Enel can't jump to the moon himself is that (1) it is simply too far away for him to reach it, even at incredible speed, in a reasonable time, or (2) he simply is not as fast as real world lightning and cannot cross the distance to the moon in a reasonable amount of time, even if it is closer to the One Piece world than the Moon is to Earth in reality.

But, ultimately, I try not to think about this stuff too much anyway. I know that if the answer is really that important, Oda will show us at some point.

The only reason I originally got involved in the discussion was to provide a reason for why Enel needed Maxim beyond transportation.

EvoWarrior5

Okay then i think we're pretty much on the same line now.

by the way i recall somehow reading around here the OP world has multiple moons… is this true? and how many if so?

Jackermeister

@EvoWarrior5:

Okay then i think we're pretty much on the same line now.

by the way i recall somehow reading around here the OP world has multiple moons… is this true? and how many if so?

EvoWarrior5

@Jackermeister:

LOL, okay thanks. i wonder which one Enel went to then?
prolly that big and close one on the left. it pretty much has to be if its in the earth's atmosphere.
also it looks most like the real moon

Jackermeister

@EvoWarrior5:

LOL, okay thanks. i wonder which one Enel went to then?
prolly that big and close one on the left. it pretty much has to be if its in the earth's atmosphere.
also it looks most like the real moon

Maybe… Enel's moon is missing those big craters, though.

Also, it's colored purple in the anime but they screw up things all the time.

!

Sander

That's one brown earth.

Makes you think what the sea is made of.Hopefully it's chocolate.

EvoWarrior5

Huh. okay.
Then maybe it's the one up top…

TitanG545

I figured I would ask here, what makes people think the SH's will get another crewmate. As I watch the Water 7 arc, I came across a part where it shows all the "old white guys" in charge of the world government. There are 5 of them, I would say it is a pretty good chance that the SH's will eventually face them. These guys stand for "justice" and are in charge of all that is "good" with the world government. Currently the numbers are in the SH's favor 7 members compared to 5 old white guys.

Medical Orbit

There are 9 Straw Hats actually (counting Luffy), and the blonde Gorosei guy is Ambiguously Brown.

Anyway, here are the main reasons why people think there will be another SH, from what I've read
-Luffy said in the beginning of the story that he wanted at least 10 crewmates
-A lot of fans think Jinbe specifically will join because of their conversation at the end of the Fishman Island arc

Also, I don't remember who said this or where, but Oda apparently said the Straw Hats would gain a member in the New World.

EvoWarrior5

Titan, did you even read or watch one piece till currently? you should know there are 9 right now.

Also @ Medical, i've always seen the Ship as a nakama too. So i think the SH's wont get another one.
But IF somebody were to join, I'm most in favour of Jinbei.

Medical Orbit

I consider the Merry and Sunny as nakama too. The crew cares about their ship(s) just as much as they do each other (and the Merry said it was happy traveling with them).

EvoWarrior5

You can see it several ways:

~ Luffy wanted a crew of ten people, Luffy counts as well. Also you count the Sunny as a member. Means that the crew is complete now.
~ He wanted a crew of ten people so he counts, but you don't count Sunny. Then he needs 1 more.
~ He wanted ten FRIENDS but Sunny does count. So 1 more member.
~ He wanted ten friends and you don't count Sunny either. Then two more members have to join.

I'm in favour of the first one, but I'd be okay with Jinbei joining. Then Luffy really did mean 10 friends and not a crew of ten, because IMO he already has that.

desa

@EvoWarrior5:

You can see it several ways:

1~ Luffy wanted a crew of ten people, Luffy counts as well. Also you count the Sunny as a member. Means that the crew is complete now.
2~ He wanted a crew of ten people so he counts, but you don't count Sunny. Then he needs 1 more.
3~ He wanted ten FRIENDS but Sunny does count. So 1 more member.
4~ He wanted ten friends and you don't count Sunny either. Then two more members have to join.

I'm in favour of the first one, but I'd be okay with Jinbei joining. Then Luffy really did mean 10 friends and not a crew of ten, because IMO he already has that.

16 chars of I go with 2.

Aaronrules380

It's pretty clear neither Luffy nor the ship counts when you consider number chapters. Zoro is the first, Usopp the third, Brook the eigth for example

TitanG545

I am new to One Piece but I am not that new. Since I am watching old anime episodes I am forgetting about the later cast members. I am watching the Water 7 arc currently. Even still during most fights someone or possible two individuals are usually tied up with other pressing matters. So you can cancel out 2 people from taking part in the fight against the latest villian but 4 or 5 people being taken out of the main fight seems like overkill.

benjamminbrown

@TitanG545:

I am new to One Piece but I am not that new. Since I am watching old anime episodes I am forgetting about the later cast members. I am watching the Water 7 arc currently. Even still during most fights someone or possible two individuals are usually tied up with other pressing matters. So you can cancel out 2 people from taking part in the fight against the latest villian but 4 or 5 people being taken out of the main fight seems like overkill.

I think that hanging out in the Manga section of the forums will probably spoil you too much on the story… You should try reading the Manga from the beginning, or at least from the Water 7 arc forward. We're already past chapter 700, though, so I can understand if that seems like a daunting task.

The five old guys you are talking about are the "Elder Stars" and are, as far as we know, the leaders of the world government. No one really knows what their fighting strength could be, but there has been a lot of speculation.

In regards to your question about why people think the Strawhats will have a certain number of crewmates: I think the main evidence is that Luffy said he wanted to collect about 10 crew mates at the beginning of his journey.
Beyond that, people have speculated matching each of the Strawhat pirates up against one of the Blackbeard pirates (you know Blackbeard, right?).

TL;DR: Leave the Manga section soon before you get spoiled too much on this awesome story! Keep watching the Anime, though, if you like. I know some people really enjoy it.

EvoWarrior5

@Aaronrules380:

It's pretty clear neither Luffy nor the ship counts when you consider number chapters. Zoro is the first, Usopp the third, Brook the eigth for example

That might be an indication then. So you believe 2 more members have to join?

I'd find that a bit too much seeing as i feel the crew is complete like this (maybe Jinbei can join i'd be fine with that) and how Oda already has to give 9 characters enough screen time…
With even more members that might become too hard, even for a god.

Jackermeister

@EvoWarrior5:

That might be an indication then. So you believe 2 more members have to join?

I'd find that a bit too much seeing as i feel the crew is complete like this (maybe Jinbei can join i'd be fine with that) and how Oda already has to give 9 characters enough screen time…
With even more members that might become too hard, even for a god.

Kinemon and Momo would fill those positions nicely. Though I don't want Kin to join… Momo and Jinbe?

But there doesn't have to be two more members. Luffy didn't say "at least 10", he said "about 10 people should do".
[hide]![](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/10/19/o/read4e9f2cb7d6007/Chapter 1 - Page 52.png)[/hide]

EvoWarrior5

@Jackermeister:

Kinemon and Momo would fill those positions nicely. Though I don't want Kin to join… Momo and Jinbe?

But there doesn't have to be two more members. Luffy didn't say "at least 10", he said "about 10 people should do".
[hide]![](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/10/19/o/read4e9f2cb7d6007/Chapter 1 - Page 52.png)[/hide]

I know there doesnt have to be. As i said there are 4 options in which either no more members join, one more, or two more.
I'd like to count Sunny as a member, though. So maybe one more.
But as everything Oda does is good anyways, I'll just see what he does. Eventually shit will be alright.

sggupta

@Jackermeister:

Kinemon and Momo would fill those positions nicely. Though I don't want Kin to join… Momo and Jinbe?

But there doesn't have to be two more members. Luffy didn't say "at least 10", he said "about 10 people should do".
[hide][http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/10/19/o/read4e9f2cb7d6007/Chapter 1 - Page 52.png](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/10/19/o/read4e9f2cb7d6007/Chapter 1 - Page 52.png)[/hide]

that's the crappy viz's translation.i wouldn't use that.
here's a better version:

!
but regardless,i agree with evowarrior.it is only a possibilty.

SanjiFan

@sggupta:

that's the crappy viz's translation.i wouldn't use that.

Viz is crappy? I just ordered volumes 1-9 -.-

Superspider

I think there will be 2 more members to join. Jimbe is a likely one and will probably be the last to join. I would want a female to join probably within the next 2-3 arcs. Preferably a superwoman fairy close range fighter as both Nami and Robin are long range fighters. The short talk about fairies in the previous chapter makes me think that there is going to be another type of sky island(possibly the one enel was born in) and that it has something to do with the skyway DD used. Anyways this is just my opinion.

sggupta

@SanjiFan:

Viz is crappy? I just ordered volumes 1-9 -.-

they have americanised the dialogue a lot.and even downright changed some things.
judge for yourself.here is viz's trans.and here's the scanlated trans.
which would you say is the real dialogue,and which is made up dialogue?

nonectra

@SanjiFan:

Viz is crappy? I just ordered volumes 1-9 -.-

Don't worry about it. The Viz translations can be a little wonky, especially early on, but the overall quality is top-notch and there are a lot of chapters, especially during Alabasta, Skypeia, and Water 7, where the only scans are fucking atrocious. And ever since a little before Punk Hazard started, Viz started using Stephen as their translator and his work as a translator is some of the best around. I highly recommend getting the Viz volumes.

SanjiFan

Thanks for the help guys, I'll go with the Viz volumes. My main reason for buying them is actually the shitty quality of the scans of those arcs, so that's nice to know! Also, after enjoying Oda's art for over a decade now, supporting him a bit is not a bad thing. Truth be told, I was luck to even find a store selling One Piece volumes in Norway.

Katzztar

@SanjiFan:

Viz is crappy? I just ordered volumes 1-9 -.-

I stopped buying them some time ago.. I just couldn't get over the "Zolo" among other things…. but every time I read "Zolo" I cringe and remember 4Kids...X__X

@nonectra:

Don't worry about it. The Viz translations can be a little wonky, especially early on, but the overall quality is top-notch and there are a lot of chapters, especially during Alabasta, Skypeia, and Water 7, where the only scans are fucking atrocious. And ever since a little before Punk Hazard started, Viz started using Stephen as their translator and his work as a translator is some of the best around. I highly recommend getting the Viz volumes.

I agree Stephan is good …. for the published works, does he spell it "Zoro"? or does Viz keep the "Zolo"?

sggupta

@SanjiFan:

Thanks for the help guys, I'll go with the Viz volumes. My main reason for buying them is actually the shitty quality of the scans of those arcs, so that's nice to know! Also, after enjoying Oda's art for over a decade now, supporting him a bit is not a bad thing. Truth be told, I was luck to even find a store selling One Piece volumes in Norway.

if it's available locally,then that's good.and the as the current volumes are translated by stephen,which makes them worth having.
but as i said in the viz thread,the early translations are just horrible.so they shoudn't be used as a reference.i have only looked at the early translations,so i can't say what happens to the quality afterwards.but it surely makes it harder to trust their trans.

nonectra

@Katzztar:

I stopped buying them some time ago.. I just couldn't get over the "Zolo" among other things…. but every time I read "Zolo" I cringe and remember 4Kids...X__X

I agree Stephan is good .... for the published works, does he spell it "Zoro"? or does Viz keep the "Zolo"?

Viz keeps it as Zolo for the sake of consistency. The likelihood of them ever changing it is pretty slim. I doubt they'd change it unless Shueisha or Oda decided to urge them to. It's really not that bad or distracting, once you get used to it.

Katzztar

@nonectra:

Viz keeps it as Zolo for the sake of consistency. The likelihood of them ever changing it is pretty slim. I doubt they'd change it unless Shueisha or Oda decided to urge them to. It's really not that bad or distracting, once you get used to it.

And there lie my problem… I can't get used to it ;)
It just annoys me too much. I can handle the berri/beri/beli thing but nott he Zoro/Zolo .
Its a personal prefference, I just don't like 'Zolo'

nonectra

@Katzztar:

And there lie my problem… I can't get used to it ;)
It just annoys me too much. I can handle the berri/beri/beli thing but nott he Zoro/Zolo .
Its a personal prefference, I just don't like 'Zolo'

That's completely fine. I like the Viz translations, so I'm willing to overlook the whole Zoro thing, but it's definitely a personal preference and I know some people are bothered by it. I see it as a small price to pay for the whole package since, like I've said before, there's a whole swathe of One Piece that only has terrible scans with shit translations and terrible picture quality.

Medical Orbit

I actually first saw One Piece on Toonami, and the first time I saw/heard "Zoro" elsewhere I thought it was a typo. Then I kept hearing/seeing it and wondered "Why are they spelling and pronouncing Zolo's name wrong?" XD

Did Bluejam and friends die in the fire, or did they escape? Or was it never mentioned? I can't remember.

Jackermeister

@Medical:

Did Bluejam and friends die in the fire, or did they escape? Or was it never mentioned? I can't remember.

It wasn't mentioned. But considering that Ace and Dadan barely got out, it's likely that he died. Such a shame, he was one of the greatest villains in One Piece. Second only to Higuma.

nonectra

@Jackermeister:

It wasn't mentioned. But considering that Ace and Dadan barely got out, it's likely that he died. Such a shame, he was one of the greatest villains in One Piece. Second only to Higuma.

Calling it now. Bluejam was saved by Dragon and is now a revolutionary.

He is also Sabo, jsyk.

Jackermeister

@nonectra:

Calling it now. Bluejam was saved by Dragon and is now a revolutionary.

He is also Sabo, jsyk.

He did say that he wants revenge against the nobles. I think you may be onto something here.

But where does Higuma fit into all of this?

nonectra

@Jackermeister:

He did say that he wants revenge against the nobles. I think you may be onto something here.

But where does Higuma fit into all of this?

Higuma was scarred horrifically by that damn brat and his sea monster, but he was luckily saved by a kind and gentle passerby vho vas vonderful!! Hee haw!!!

Unfortunately, the damage was too much… so he became a prototype pacifista who we will encounter again during the Vegapunk arc.

Sander

@nonectra:

Calling it now. Bluejam was saved by Dragon and is now a revolutionary.

He is also Sabo, jsyk.

It all makes perfect sense!Dragon saved Blujam,but his body was badly burned,even beyond mere disfigurement,and Dragon had also recovered Sabo's barely living remains.

Unwilling to accept the seemingly inevitable death of his rescuees,the great revolutionary leader adressed his followers,loudly proclaiming "gentlemen,we can rebuild them,we have the medical expertise!"

cue theme

Taking notice,Emporio Ivankov rose to the occasion and through the wonders of surgery and Healing Hormones,merged Sabo and Bluejam into a new composite being.

And so,he rose

Part Sabo

Part Bluejam

All Sabo

Woe on the enemies of revolution!

TitanG545

@benjamminbrown:

I think that hanging out in the Manga section of the forums will probably spoil you too much on the story… You should try reading the Manga from the beginning, or at least from the Water 7 arc forward. We're already past chapter 700, though, so I can understand if that seems like a daunting task.

The five old guys you are talking about are the "Elder Stars" and are, as far as we know, the leaders of the world government. No one really knows what their fighting strength could be, but there has been a lot of speculation.

In regards to your question about why people think the Strawhats will have a certain number of crewmates: I think the main evidence is that Luffy said he wanted to collect about 10 crew mates at the beginning of his journey.
Beyond that, people have speculated matching each of the Strawhat pirates up against one of the Blackbeard pirates (you know Blackbeard, right?).

TL;DR: Leave the Manga section soon before you get spoiled too much on this awesome story! Keep watching the Anime, though, if you like. I know some people really enjoy it.

I guess I should clarify myself, I am very up to date on the manga. I read every chapter every Wednesday sometimes Thursday. I started reading One Piece right before the 4 week hiatus, once I caught up to that chapter. Perhaps my questions would make more sense to ask in the anime section since I am basing my questions off the anime. Some animes don't follow the manga completely.

desa

I wonder how Law normally do against bullet. I mean you don't end up on a winter island that often. Your thoughts?

Medical Orbit

This post is deleted!

TheGreatestSwordsman

This post is deleted!

Plasmalpha

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Small rocks, grass, he can use anything. If there absolutely is nothing small, he can always teleport himself out of trouble.

Logically he could just modify the surrounding environment to shield himself if necessary.

LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND

I wonder what makes Smoker so special as to have received/ and or given, the seemingly so far, only Seastone Weapon shown, ( that also seems to suspiciously perfectly suit his style), before he was even a VA?

Plasmalpha

@LUFFYSMC:

I wonder what makes Smoker so special as to have received/ and or given, the seemingly so far, only Seastone Weapon shown, ( that also seems to suspiciously perfectly suit his style), before he was even a VA?

Don't forget the Impel Down Weapons, they also have Kairoseki.

Plus there was Smoker's Wild Dog reputation, his friendship with Kuzan, his control of piracy in East Blue by preventing crews from entering the Grand Line, and his persistence in chasing down any pirate that slips underneath his nose. Any of that could have factored.

EvoWarrior5

Yo, i have kinda a stupid question over here.

When watching OP for the first time, when i passed alabasta i never knew pell was still alive, until i got to after water 7 and saw him in the scene where the alabasta people look at the new wanted posters and he stood there. i then thought "huh? that guy was still alive?" and looked it up on the wiki and it said some shit about him still being alive and having survived the bomb etc. i didnt know the details but all that remained in my mind for some time was "okay apparently he's still alive"

but now i was re-reading the entire story and after passing alabasta, i noticed that at the end, pell is still not there and Igaram talks about pell's sacrifice.
so in the entire alabasta arc there is NO sign of pell still living, at all. then after water 7 we see him in ONE panel.

so i was wondering: are we sure that oda didnt just make a mistake at that panel where he showed pell as well? is he really like, supposed to be alive?

Jackermeister

@EvoWarrior5:

so i was wondering: are we sure that oda didnt just make a mistake at that panel where he showed pell as well? is he really like, supposed to be alive?

Oda doesn't make mistakes like that. He was shown multiple times after Alabasta.
[hide][/hide]Also, in the anime a doctor helped him and he was shown visiting his own grave.